NationStates Jolt Archive

I don't frankly see a difference. So you have diminished cognitive functions. Doesn't matter. Not EVERY job involves Hard Manual Labor. Disabled People can support themselves just as well as Non-Disabled People, and they're still the same. Today, people look down at Disabled people like "Oh, they can't support themselves, they need help."

News Flash: They don't need help. Maybe a few Anti-Discrimination Laws, but other then that, NOTHING is needed. No legs? Doesn't matter. You can still work. Only the EXTREMELY disabled, (for example, those who cannot use their body at all), cannot support themselves. The rest can.

I don't frankly see a difference. So you have diminished cognitive functions. Doesn't matter. Not EVERY job involves Hard Manual Labor. Disabled People can support themselves just as well as Non-Disabled People, and they're still the same. Today, people look down at Disabled people like "Oh, they can't support themselves, they need help."

News Flash: They don't need help. Maybe a few Anti-Discrimination Laws, but other then that, NOTHING is needed. No legs? Doesn't matter. You can still work. Only the EXTREMELY disabled, (for example, those who cannot use their body at all), cannot support themselves. The rest can.
unless you have actually lived with a disability you are not qualified to judge what a disabled person can or can't do. It is true that many people claim to be disabled who are not, so that they can get government handouts, not all of them do. It is always a bad idea to make general statements about things you know little about.

I'm stating a single fact.

A diminished cognitive function does NOT hinder your ability to support yourself.

i agree. and those that can't have reasones for why they shouldn't get free things against them also, here's a few:
1. they are likely to have done something bad in a previous life that has caused them to have that disablity
2. evolution, weed out the weak and let the strong live
3. if they can't support the government, the government shouldn't support them

I'm stating a single fact.

A diminished cognitive function does NOT hinder your ability to support yourself.
not always, but sometimes it does. I would assume that you are not a dr, nor have you had the bad luck to be afflicted with every imaginable disability. Therefore you are not in a position to say who can do what :rolleyes:

I'm stating a single fact.

A diminished cognitive function does NOT hinder your ability to support yourself.

Very true. Doesn't even hinder your ability to become President of the USA.

I have limited use of my right side, and it shakes a lot. My life is great.

Very true. Doesn't even hinder your ability to become President of the USA.
what was the name of that president that had polio?
and he's not talking about being particularly successful above others, just supporting themselves, i'm pretty shure.

Hey isn't that a coincidence. I am visually impared, I use a BrailleNote to get online. I feel in most senses like everyone else, I play the guitar, write poems/songs, and go to school. In most cases I'm capable of supporting myself, except sometimes I need help finding things. And I don't believe in past lives so forget that theory.

I have limited use of my right side, and it shakes a lot. My life is great.

See? Exactly. People can still live high-quality lives, and support themselves, and often be successful as well, even if they do have diminished cognitive functions.

I don't frankly see a difference. So you have diminished cognitive functions. Doesn't matter. Not EVERY job involves Hard Manual Labor. Disabled People can support themselves just as well as Non-Disabled People, and they're still the same. Today, people look down at Disabled people like "Oh, they can't support themselves, they need help."


This statement is completely rediculous. I worked for 2 years at group homes for developementally disabled adults so I speak from a certain amount of experience. Things we had to do to support them: Remind them to put on appropriate clothes (don't wear shorts in the winter and coats in the summer), in work to stay on task (can they work in some settings, you bet but they do need some support), how to take a bus or other transportation, to prepare meals for them (most of the guys I worked for could not comprehend how to cook more than popping something in a microwave). The thing is most of the people I worked with think completely different from us. What seems obvious to you and I, (if you don't come to work, you won't have a job; you chould take a shower to get clean) is completely foreign to them. Saying they don't need help is like saying an eight year old can support him or herself

This statement is completely rediculous. I worked for 2 years at group homes for developementally disabled adults so I speak from a certain amount of experience. Things we had to do to support them: Remind them to put on appropriate clothes (don't wear shorts in the winter and coats in the summer), in work to stay on task (can they work in some settings, you bet but they do need some support), how to take a bus or other transportation, to prepare meals for them (most of the guys I worked for could not comprehend how to cook more than popping something in a microwave). The thing is most of the people I worked with think completely different from us. What seems obvious to you and I, (if you don't come to work, you won't have a job; you chould take a shower to get clean) is completely foreign to them. Saying they don't need help is like saying an eight year old can support him or herself
you're also talking of mentally disabled people, not physically.

Hey isn't that a coincidence. I am visually impared, I use a BrailleNote to get online. I feel in most senses like everyone else, I play the guitar, write poems/songs, and go to school. In most cases I'm capable of supporting myself, except sometimes I need help finding things. And I don't believe in past lives so forget that theory.

Exactly. People with diminished abilities are just like normal people, and we can function just like them.

I'm EXTREMELY hard of hearing. It doesn't do much, other then when I watch T.V. and DVDs, I need subtitles, and when I play games, I've gotta turn the sound waaaay up, and I constantly ask whenever someone says something, "WHAT?". But other then that, there's no real difference.

Same thing if you're missing a leg. You can still get around fine.

you're also talking of mentally disabled people, not physically.

The original posters said: So you have diminished cognitive functions. Doesn't matter.

And I think mental retardation falls under the catagory of "dimineshed cognitive functions" much more than physical disabilities would.

The original posters said:

And I think mental retardation falls under the catagory of "dimineshed cognitive functions" much more than physical disabilities would.

Not THAt mentally retarded. I mean, minor Mental Retardation? It's not too restricting. A little help, but nothing else needed.

But MAJOR Mental Retardation, well, they probably need support, but I was talking about mild-moderate Diminihed Cognitive Functions.

Not THAt mentally retarded. I mean, minor Mental Retardation? It's not too restricting. A little help, but nothing else needed.

But MAJOR Mental Retardation, well, they probably need support, but I was talking about mild-moderate Diminihed Cognitive Functions.
oh, sorry to confuse what you had ment in that post, i'd thought you ment only physical disabilities so that's why i replied to them of that.

Not THAt mentally retarded. I mean, minor Mental Retardation? It's not too restricting. A little help, but nothing else needed.

But MAJOR Mental Retardation, well, they probably need support, but I was talking about mild-moderate Diminihed Cognitive Functions.

Ah, I am sorry I missunderstood you and I agree (for the most part) with your statements. Most of the people I did work with were moderate to severly mentally retared and so they were very different from those who can take care of themselves.

I don't frankly see a difference. So you have diminished cognitive functions. Doesn't matter. Not EVERY job involves Hard Manual Labor. Disabled People can support themselves just as well as Non-Disabled People, and they're still the same. Today, people look down at Disabled people like "Oh, they can't support themselves, they need help."

News Flash: They don't need help. Maybe a few Anti-Discrimination Laws, but other then that, NOTHING is needed. No legs? Doesn't matter. You can still work. Only the EXTREMELY disabled, (for example, those who cannot use their body at all), cannot support themselves. The rest can.


I'm trying to think of a way that can convey my scathing contempt for what you said in your post without getting warned or even banned for flamebaiting. Since I can't (or don't feel like it), the following will just have to suffice:Fuck you and the horse you rode in under.

Just so there was no confussion, I was using the "text book" deffinitions of mild/moderate/severe mental retardation which are IQ 70-50 = mild; IQ 50-35 moderate; IQ 35 and below severe. Basically if you can go to a "normal" high school even if it is the "special" classes, you are not moderately mentally retarted.

I'm trying to think of a way that can convey my scathing contempt for what you said in your post without getting warned or even banned for flamebaiting. Since I can't (or don't feel like it), the following will just have to suffice:Fuck you and the horse you rode in under.

Why do you feel that way? I have spina Bifida which means I have to use a wheelchair when i'm outside and use crutches and calipers when iI am at home and feel that Serapindal is quite right, unless you have a SEVERE mental or physical disability like MS, OCD or something like Alzheimers then living a fairly normal with a few aids is absolutely possible.

Just so there was no confussion, I was using the "text book" deffinitions of mild/moderate/severe mental retardation which are IQ 70-50 = mild; IQ 50-35 moderate; IQ 35 and below severe. Basically if you can go to a "normal" high school even if it is the "special" classes, you are not moderately mentally retarted.

Yeah, so we're talking what? 40-45+?

Anyways, Mentally Retarded people as you said, can be productive and possibly successful members of society, they might need some help to get there, but still, they'll get there.

While I believe it important to not leave anyone behind, I still feel it neccesary that we don't baby them, because after a while, they will be able to support themselves, and be a productive member to society.

Why do you feel that way? I have spina Bifida which means I have to use a wheelchair when i'm outside and use crutches and calipers when iI am at home and feel that Serapindal is quite right, unless you have a SEVERE mental or physical disability like MS, OCD or something like Alzheimers then living a fairly normal with a few aids is absolutely possible.

If OCD means Obsessive Compulsice Disorder, then for that, I disagree. It could make someone's life inconvenient a bit, they can still live a normal life. OCD is very different from Alzheimers and MS, which actually physically destroys your brain. (Sorta.)

OCD is just an anxiety disorder, and not on the scale of MS and Alzheimers.

I'm not even going to bother wasting my breath arguing against you. Suffice it to say, if you or someone you loved or knew well were to suffer from a Mental Illness such as Schizophrenia or Bipolar Disorder, you wouldn't be making such flimsy statements.

I'm not even going to bother wasting my breath arguing against you.

Translation: I've come into the thread to randomly annoy and just to contribute nothing to the discussion, while throwiing out Flame-Bait.

If you're going to disagree, I'm fine with it, but could you at least contribute something to the discussion, and try not to be so..inflammatory.

I don't really like text-books. I'm supposed to have a mental disability because of my particular sight problem, but my IQ is 156 and I'm in all advanced classes in high school. They said I'd have no fine-mtor skills, but I've practiced Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for several years now, and have competed in one major tournament. So never listen to text-books, or idionts.

I'm trying to think of a way that can convey my scathing contempt for what you said in your post without getting warned or even banned for flamebaiting. Since I can't (or don't feel like it), the following will just have to suffice:Fuck you and the horse you rode in under.
I second that! I'm disabled, and even though, frankly, its no ones damn business how, I speak from experience. You think being hard of hearing qualifies you to judge others? You sir, are a douche bag.

Translation: I've come into the thread to randomly annoy and just to contribute nothing to the discussion, while throwiing out Flame-Bait.

If you're going to disagree, I'm fine with it, but could you at least contribute something to the discussion, and try not to be so..inflammatory.


I'm in a pissy mood.

Look, I have Bipolar Disorder, it really fucked up my life to the point where it was unlivable. Getting treatment and getting *temporary* disability pension enabled me to heal to the popint where I can (and do) contribute to society and support myself. Without that support, I'd still be on the streets. Aslo what you propose smacks of discrimination so profound and deep, I'm disturbed by it. You suggest that a person with a mental affliction should just have to accept a much lower standard of livng than other people are free to acheive. If you have an untreated disability, you simply can't function at the level required to be any kind of success and think beyond where the hell your next meal is going to come from.

People with disabilties sure as hell do need and deserve support to help them heal. Thats the entire popint of support aftrall. Or do you think all support has to coe with some kind of lifelong shackle to it?

I'm in a pissy mood.

Look, I have Bipolar Disorder, it really fucked up my life to the point where it was unlivable. Getting treatment and getting *temporary* disability pension enabled me to heal to the popint where I can (and do) contribute to society and support myself. Without that support, I'd still be on the streets. Aslo what you propose smacks of discrimination so profound and deep, I'm disturbed by it. You suggest that a person with a mental affliction should just have to accept a much lower standard of livng than other people are free to acheive. If you have an untreated disability, you simply can't function at the level required to be any kind of success and think beyond where the hell your next meal is going to come from.

People with disabilties sure as hell do need and deserve support to help them heal. Thats the entire popint of support aftrall. Or do you think all support has to coe with some kind of lifelong shackle to it?

You seem to haven't read the earlier part where I said we should give them TEMPORARY support, until they can support themselves, and be a productive member of society.

I'm just saying that disabled people are like Normal People, and can live perfectly normal lives, after a bit of support.

You seem to haven't read the earlier part where I said we should give them TEMPORARY support, until they can support themselves, and be a productive member of society.

I'm just saying that disabled people are like Normal People, and can live perfectly normal lives, after a bit of support.


The problem is that that isn't always the case. Longterm, ongoing support is sometimes neccessary. Aslo it can take a very long time before a person is able to support themselves. There are varying degrees of severity to Mental Illnesses like Bipolar and Schizophrenia. While I've been able to get started well enough on healing myself, there are many more people who don't find the right treatment, some for whom the known treatments just don't work. This isn't just about someones cognitive distortion, I should remind you. These disorders are all tied to chemical imbalances in the brain. These have been proven beyond a doubt with CAT scans, MRIs, ECGs etc.

I don't frankly see a difference. So you have diminished cognitive functions. Doesn't matter. Not EVERY job involves Hard Manual Labor. Disabled People can support themselves just as well as Non-Disabled People, and they're still the same. Today, people look down at Disabled people like "Oh, they can't support themselves, they need help."

News Flash: They don't need help. Maybe a few Anti-Discrimination Laws, but other then that, NOTHING is needed. No legs? Doesn't matter. You can still work. Only the EXTREMELY disabled, (for example, those who cannot use their body at all), cannot support themselves. The rest can.

I am a handicapped person with leg braces and I am hard of hearing. So I'm basically a cripple. I agree with you 100%. I think that if my brother and sisters can support themselves they should. I am sick and tired of those people who use their disability as a way out of an honest day work. You know what, when they do that, they don't only make themselves look bad, but they make me look bad too. I mean lets be honest here, while we can't be the next Carolina Panthers Quaterback, we can certainly do some office jobs. There are tons of scholarship out there for handicapped and disabled people out there.

I used to have a handicapped girlfriend, she had BSF or something like that. Bonda Spafida or something. She was 1-2 years my senior. She thinks that just because shes handicapped, that it means she cannot support herself. I do not agree with that. If you can spend 7-8 hours a day in front of the computer, then you can most likely do an office job. I mean she could've been a receptionist or a secetary. I didn't agree with her and I thought it was sick how she was using her handicap. So, I dump her ass.

I'm now with a woman who has the exact same thing that I have. Guess what, shes in college, and shes working on becoming a nurse for children. I think shes a keeper.

So to end this, this is a message to my brother and sisters that think their handicapps are holding them back, when in fact, its not.

GET OFF OF YOUR LAZY ASS AND EITHER GO TO COLLEGE OR GET A JOB! WHEN YOU USE YOUR HANDICAPS TO GET OUT OF A HARD DAY'S WORK, YOU ARE MAKING THE REST OF US LOOK BAD!

you do realize 100% employment is impossible, don't you? if we're going to have unemployed, it might as well be those who can't work as easily as others.

you do realize 100% employment is impossible, don't you? if we're going to have unemployed, it might as well be those who can't work as easily as others.

Who would decide who can work and who can't work?

Wow. I probably shouldn't be surprised we're skipping over things like this, but I am.

Any decent excuse for a human being with a glimmer of honor and a sense of chivalry is for supporting the disabled. No question there. The question is who should do the supporting? How can you say to me, or the next Joe that you have the right to take x percent from my income to support someone they've never met, and don't give a rat's rear about? This reeks of socialism. Free up the burden from people who don't care, and allow people who do, such as families, communities, religious and charitable organizations, or even corporations looking to improve their public image take it up instead of a cold, impersonal bureaucracy forcing it from people and inefficiently distributing it. The support is far more likely to help when it's directly given rather than taken and broadly distributed. This is a problem which requires loving work with a scalpel, not a cudgel.

I am a handicapped person with leg braces and I am hard of hearing. So I'm basically a cripple. I agree with you 100%. I think that if my brother and sisters can support themselves they should. I am sick and tired of those people who use their disability as a way out of an honest day work. You know what, when they do that, they don't only make themselves look bad, but they make me look bad too. I mean lets be honest here, while we can't be the next Carolina Panthers Quaterback, we can certainly do some office jobs. There are tons of scholarship out there for handicapped and disabled people out there.

I used to have a handicapped girlfriend, she had BSF or something like that. Bonda Spafida or something. She was 1-2 years my senior. She thinks that just because shes handicapped, that it means she cannot support herself. I do not agree with that. If you can spend 7-8 hours a day in front of the computer, then you can most likely do an office job. I mean she could've been a receptionist or a secetary. I didn't agree with her and I thought it was sick how she was using her handicap. So, I dump her ass.

I'm now with a woman who has the exact same thing that I have. Guess what, shes in college, and shes working on becoming a nurse for children. I think shes a keeper.

So to end this, this is a message to my brother and sisters that think their handicapps are holding them back, when in fact, its not.

GET OFF OF YOUR LAZY ASS AND EITHER GO TO COLLEGE OR GET A JOB! WHEN YOU USE YOUR HANDICAPS TO GET OUT OF A HARD DAY'S WORK, YOU ARE MAKING THE REST OF US LOOK BAD!

Exactly. It only holds you back when the onlu job you know how to do is hard manaul labor.

As said, all disabled people need, is a little push/support, and then they can support themselves. I would support a temporary pension, that lasts a year or so. Maybe yeah, Scholarships and Financial Aid, but other then that, we don't need to fully support them. After a short while, they can support themselves perfectly.