NationStates Jolt Archive

with all the damage to New Orleans, one question I have...

Should they Repair the city, make it habitable again, repair the levies, make them Cat 5 resistant (if possible)...

or would it be better to relocate the city to areas above the sea level and rebuild?

Granted while New Orleans is steeped with history, to continue to live in a place that is sinking (or so I heard) it' would be inevitable that New Orleans would end up sunk anyway.

the people that lived there are going to return and rebuild even if they can't guarantee safety from another hurricane

It ould b transformed into the worlds most exciting, innovative and extensive waterpark..... :p

I think simply repairing the levees to withstand Cat 4 and 5 hurricanes, as well as rebuilding the damaged property, should be all right.

I forsee mass emigration out of the south, good riddance. Live in the north, become educated and liberal. That's just how it goes.

What I wanna know is why did they build it there in the first place. :confused:

It ould b transformed into the worlds most exciting, innovative and extensive waterpark..... :pTurn New Orleans into the US equivalant of Venice. :D

I forsee mass emigration out of the south, good riddance. Live in the north, become educated and liberal. That's just how it goes.

That's the only convincing argument I've ever heard for living in the South.

What I wanna know is why did they build it there in the first place. :confused:Don't know the exact history, but from what I think it is...

the French build New Orleans as a port/trading post. the area was above sea level, however, as the city grew, the weight of the city caused the land under it to slowly sink. thus the need for levies and other anti-flood measures.

(Same thing is happening to Waikiki. it's sinking something like a fraction of an inch every decade or so.)

the French build New Orleans as a port/trading post. the area was above sea level, however, as the city grew, the weight of the city caused the land under it to slowly sink. thus the need for levies and other anti-flood measures.

(Same thing is happening to Waikiki. it's sinking something like a fraction of an inch every decade or so.)

Wow. I thought that you had to have permafrost to make such a large area do that.

Wow. I thought that you had to have permafrost to make such a large area do that.no... it has something to do with the makeup of the soil. basically, it's being compressed by the weight of the buildings. having a large body of water to help erode the loose soil underneath also helps the sinking process.

I think... not an expert.

(Same thing is happening to Waikiki. it's sinking something like a fraction of an inch every decade or so.)

well, it did used to be a swamp (before thy paved it over into the glorious flat slab of tourist infested concrete). kinda like chicago, really - but with an even more fake beach, instead of just a reconstructed one.

Turn New Orleans into the US equivalant of Venice. :D

Superb

Turn New Orleans into the US equivalant of Venice. :D

i had the same idea. i mean, do you know how much additional cool that would give to an already cool city?

well, it did used to be a swamp (before thy paved it over into the glorious flat slab of tourist infested concrete). kinda like chicago, really - but with an even more fake beach, instead of just a reconstructed one.You're right on that one.

That's the only convincing argument I've ever heard for living in the South.
So anarchists think that education (and liberalism? wtf?) is a bad thing? Have you yet come across Melkor Unchained?

Rename it Lake Orleans.

Easy

I'm sure they'll just rebuild. Can you imagine actually getting 500k+ people to relocate voluntarily? No one wants to leave their home when they have roots there. Making the levees resistant to cat 5 hurricanes should definitely help. It would have been not quite as bad had they been built right.

Rename it Lake Orleans.

Easy

It could always become a revolutionary hotel with the oppurtunity to swim with wildlife, loot real life shops, sail in a variety of challenging courses, or in the Caribbean, and swim regularly with incentives pertaining to the increase of speed.

What home do they have left?

And what do you have to be ON to rebuild in an area knowing this sort of thing WILL happen again?

There are other places in the Delta to put a port. This time, guys, hit bedrock first. Please?

New Orleans was built because of it's location. It's located at the mouth of the Mississipi where it dumps into the Gulf of Mexico. The French taxed everything that passed through it. Eventually, we aquired it and people already lived there, so it just built up.

I'm sure they'll just rebuild. Can you imagine actually getting 500k+ people to relocate voluntarily? No one wants to leave their home when they have roots there. Making the levees resistant to cat 5 hurricanes should definitely help. It would have been not quite as bad had they been built right.but I've heard stories that New Orleans is constantly sinking... so any levees built now would have to be maintained as the levees sink into the water with the city.

and I just had a picture of the swamps reclaiming New Orleans with houses on stilts... and I swear I hear "Dueling Banjos" :p

It could always become a revolutionary hotel with the oppurtunity to swim with wildlife, loot real life shops, sail in a variety of challenging courses, or in the Caribbean, and swim regularly with incentives pertaining to the increase of speed.

a sort of hurricane aftermath amusement park.hmmm,i like it

New Orleans was built because of it's location. It's located at the mouth of the Mississipi where it dumps into the Gulf of Mexico. The French taxed everything that passed through it. Eventually, we aquired it and people already lived there, so it just built up.

Yeah, the mouth of the Mississippi covers several thousand square miles (or at the very least it does -now-) and I'm willing to wager that at least a few of those are something other than compacted silt. We know what has happened and what we can do, we have the gift of hindsight; to not use it would be a sin.

So anarchists think that education (and liberalism? wtf?) is a bad thing?

yeah, seriously. you gotta wonder about some of these people...

speaking of anarchists (but moving over to actual ones), new orleans actually was/is home to a fairly sizeable number of them.

considering the overhauling they need to do anyway, why not spend a little more and rebuild.

Most of the houses are gone or will be declared structually unfit anyway.

but to move that many people...

pros and cons for Relocating New Orleans... Any other thoughts on the matter.

It might be stupid to rebuild NO since it would just be another disaster waiting to happen, economicly and/or naturally. Building NO was a mistake due to the nature of the soil. Make the people live somewhere else. At least all I have to worry about is a drought...in a desert. If people stop moving here, we'll be fine. Yep. People need to really start planning ahead.

They should relocate it to President Bushs' ranch down in Texass.

Rebuild New Orleans just make bigger protection close up to the water.

As Richard Simmons said on Fox News this morning about his home town, "The South will rise again. We will rebuild it." Granted, it is Richard Simmons, and as I have personally met him once, I can tell you that he is not my favorite. However, I will say that he is right: New Orleans will be rebuilt. Maybe it'll have less people, but it will return. At the very least, it has a great port that can't be abandoned.

I don't suppose Kevin Costner and Dennis Hopper would be up for making Water World II? There already appear to be lots of suitably-bedraggled and heavily-armed potential extras already on site.

:sniper: :mp5: :(

It could always become a revolutionary hotel with the oppurtunity to swim with wildlife, loot real life shops, sail in a variety of challenging courses, or in the Caribbean, and swim regularly with incentives pertaining to the increase of speed.
You are defantly joking. I say that rebuilding New Orleans like venice would make more sense.

no... it has something to do with the makeup of the soil. basically, it's being compressed by the weight of the buildings. having a large body of water to help erode the loose soil underneath also helps the sinking process.

I think... not an expert.
I know that Venice is doing that. The city has survived a bit longer, and is still surviving. But many city streets do flood much more often.
BTW, the original part of the city, the French Quarter, is still a bit above sea level. It was known as the "Crescent City" because it formed a crescent, with the center far too swampy to build on. That changed about a hundred years ago, when they figured out how to drain it.

Option 3...or Raise the elevation, which would be very expensive, but hey we can wast $400B on two pointless wars so this should be nothing.

People that vote "relocate" are stupid, just regard what was possible with the destroyed city of Dresden and other terror bombed cities of WWII that where rebuild, says enough, debate closed.Point

I don't suppose Kevin Costner and Dennis Hopper would be up for making Water World II? There already appear to be lots of suitably-bedraggled and heavily-armed potential extras already on site.

:sniper: :mp5: :(

You sicken me. I had to see Water World in the theatre.......oh god...flashbacks. But I loved Open Range, JFK, and Thirteen Days so don't say I hate Kevin Costner.

People that vote "relocate" are stupid, just regard what was possible with the destroyed city of Dresden and other terror bombed cities of WWII that where rebuild, says enough, debate closed.Point

A city being destroyed by bombs and one destroyed by natural disaster.

2 completely different things.

I think they should rebuild, take better measures towards huricane proofing the area as best as possible, and have a better disaster management and evacuation plan on both the Federal and State levels. Stop waiting for the unthinkable to happen and plan for the worst possible scenario.

New Orleans was, as pointed out, by the French as a port probably in the 17th or 18th century when they owned the Louisiana Territory. The entire southern Louisiana Gulf coast is a marshland. It's literally sinking under the weight of the city, mainly because the foundation it was built on isn't the best place to build on. It's very similar to Venice, Italy in that way. Venice is sinking as well. At the time, I don't think people new that much about it; only until recently.

Canada may ship 1000 soldiers to help the evacuation of N-O.

Canada may ship 1000 soldiers to help the evacuation of N-O.psst... wrong thread, this is about the opinion of wether New Orleans should be repaired or moved and rebuilt.

but from one Island Bound American... Thanks Canada!

I think they should rebuild, take better measures towards huricane proofing the area as best as possible, and have a better disaster management and evacuation plan on both the Federal and State levels. Stop waiting for the unthinkable to happen and plan for the worst possible scenario.

New Orleans was, as pointed out, by the French as a port probably in the 17th or 18th century when they owned the Louisiana Territory. The entire southern Louisiana Gulf coast is a marshland. It's literally sinking under the weight of the city, mainly because the foundation it was built on isn't the best place to build on. It's very similar to Venice, Italy in that way. Venice is sinking as well. At the time, I don't think people new that much about it; only until recently.ah, but wouldn't the renovation/improvements as well as maintaining the safeguards cost more than relocating the city?

Don't know how much the Feds can be involved with the emergency planning for the city... anyone knows?

People that vote "relocate" are stupid, just regard what was possible with the destroyed city of Dresden and other terror bombed cities of WWII that where rebuild, says enough, debate closed.Point
LOL. Dresden was rebuilt because it wasn't likely to get firebombed in the near future; this isn't even the start of the hurricane season and already NO is swamped, why rebuild the city so that it can get drowned underwater again?

If they're smart they'll rebuild somewhere that's actually higher then sea level, and try to keep the historic buildings standing as best they can.

Turn New Orleans into the US equivalant of Venice. :D

Venice is slowly sinking into the lagoon.

Written in Popular Mechanics September 11 2001 edition. Article (http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/research/1282151.html). They called it as many others have.


I said it before and I will say it again. Relocate the people, blow the levies and let nature take the land over. Rebuilding would be a mistake.

The last natural disaster to kill so many people in the US was another hurricane, this one in Galvestone, TX, in 1900. I just found out that at the time, Galvestone was the largest port in Texas. But it was surpassed by Houston, mostly because of the hurricane.
I thought that it wouldn't happen with New Orleans. The city sits on the delta of a river that drains half the nation. Yet I didn't consider the possibility that there are other ways into the US. The St. Lawrence Seaway could be used more often, though it's useless in the winter, as Lake Erie freezes over. More likely, a barge canal will be built by investors and/or the government, connecting a more sheltered port on the Gulf, like Port Arthur or Mobile, with the Mississiippi. Perhaps enough people will determine that the Gulf Coast is too risky, and build a canal linking the Mississippi to a Southern East Coast port, like Savannah or Jacksonville. The last one may sound expensive, but all that matters is if someone is willing to pay.

I think all NO needs is a monorail:

Well sir, there's nothin' on earth like a genuine, bonafide, electrified, six-car monorail!

What'd I say?

Monorail!

What's it called?

Monorail!

That's right, monorail!

Rebuild and repair it. It'll be better than ever :)

Written in Popular Mechanics September 11 2001 edition. Article (http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/research/1282151.html). They called it as many others have.


I said it before and I will say it again. Relocate the people, blow the levies and let nature take the land over. Rebuilding would be a mistake.
I first learned about the problem fifteen years ago, in a National Geographic special about hurricanes and tornados. I expected it to happen, yet I thought that everyone in the city that didn't evacuate would die instantly. I never expected so many to live, and for the evacuation process to be so messy.

I first learned about the problem fifteen years ago, in a National Geographic special about hurricanes and tornados. I expected it to happen, yet I thought that everyone in the city that didn't evacuate would die instantly. I never expected so many to live, and for the evacuation process to be so messy.I heard that it was below sea level, but not exactly how much below.

The waters are starting to recede in New Orleans. Water levels have dropped and now only 75% of the city is underwater and not 80%!

Also, one of the levees has now been repaired and limited pumping action has commenced to drain the city.

Rebuild rebuild and rebuild. Most definitely.

Use it as the set for Waterworld II?

Make it a giant prison?

Remove and relocate the historic buildings and set up another city somewhere safe for all the former occupants and then let the prisoners loose in the city. No supplies going in or coming out, just guards around the perimeter. Let them take care of themselves.

Make it a giant prison?

Remove and relocate the historic buildings and set up another city somewhere safe for all the former occupants and then let the prisoners loose in the city. No supplies going in or coming out, just guards around the perimeter. Let them take care of themselves.
And use it as the plot for another "Escape From ______" movie? :rolleyes:

And use it as the plot for another "Escape From ______" movie? :rolleyes:
"Escape From Waterworld II"

And use it as the plot for another "Escape From ______" movie? :rolleyes:hey. next time the levee breaks, Snake Pliskin can surf it it! :D

NO is sinking due to flood control projects of the 1930's the funneled the sedement of the Mississippi into the Gulf instead of into the wetlands (See the October 2004 National Geographic for more info).

No, they'll rebuild. As San Francisco has been reminding anyone who wants to listen; when it was wiped off the map after the 1906 earthquake and fire the city rebuilt itself as soon as the embers cooled, even though that is also a disaster waiting to happen.

People rebuild, it's what they do. In the same place, again.

You know, I always thought New Orleans would be rebuilt. I mean, it is a highly strategic city on the mouth of the Mississippi, perhaps economically the most important drainage system. And yet, I think it might not, or at least not as big of a city as it is now. It may be that a more sheltered harbor on the Gulf Coast will be built, maybe at Port Arthur, TX, or Mobile. A shipping canal can link their respective rivers to the Mississippi. What do you guys think?

NO is sinking due to flood control projects of the 1930's the funneled the sedement of the Mississippi into the Gulf instead of into the wetlands (See the October 2004 National Geographic for more info).

Don't they want to eventually build a third acess channel in Louisianna to help with this? And now that you mention it, where are all the environmentalists? I'm not one, but I do know that a lot of marshes and mangrove swamps were cleared for either canals, access channels, or by lost sediment.

not to be accused of Gravedigging but really didn't wanna start a new thread on this subject. Does anyone know if they do plan on rebuilding or repairing. been hearing some things (non News rumors) that suggest that New Orleans is 'Lost'

not to be accused of Gravedigging but really didn't wanna start a new thread on this subject. Does anyone know if they do plan on rebuilding or repairing. been hearing some things (non News rumors) that suggest that New Orleans is 'Lost'

I heard from the mayor that they are going to rebuild.

Myrth Will Find A Way!

not to be accused of Gravedigging but really didn't wanna start a new thread on this subject. Does anyone know if they do plan on rebuilding or repairing. been hearing some things (non News rumors) that suggest that New Orleans is 'Lost'


I think the real question is "Should" it be rebuilt.

NO is going to be mostly uninhabitable for a couple of years.

Even once you get the city drained, you still have to worry about disease and filth.
Once you clean the filth, you still have to worry about Malaria, cholera, and all sorts of nasty diseases.

After all of that, once you get the place, dry, and all cleaned up....then you still have to adress the issue of the whole mess possibly happening again.

This means remaking and refortifying the levee systems

Once you do all of that...you still are left with a town that is mostly below sea level, and right on the Gulf of Mexico.

Not such a good idea.

Its truly sad to see such a historically rich place, befall such bad luck, but the real question is, should we rebuild, just to watch this happen again?

No, they'll rebuild. As San Francisco has been reminding anyone who wants to listen; when it was wiped off the map after the 1906 earthquake and fire the city rebuilt itself as soon as the embers cooled, even though that is also a disaster waiting to happen.

People rebuild, it's what they do. In the same place, again.

Depressingly true. What other choice do desperately poor people have? What other choice will blindly determined people see?

Depressingly true. What other choice do desperately poor people have? What other choice will blindly determined people see?sometimes they do try to improve on what was lost. People who have lost their houses to Hurricanes try to make their new homes Hurricane Proof. others fire proof, and such. so sometimes, determined people will look around and ask themselves, "how do I make the city Flood Proof?"

sometimes they do try to improve on what was lost. People who have lost their houses to Hurricanes try to make their new homes Hurricane Proof. others fire proof, and such. so sometimes, determined people will look around and ask themselves, "how do I make the city Flood Proof?"


Im no engineer, but If I were to ask myself that question, the answer seems to be "you cant"

The city sits on the conjunction of a major river.
It sits below sea level.
It sits right on the edge of the Gulf of Mexico.

Hurricanes will hit the city again.

Any preparations you do...can be overcome by nature.

Im no engineer, but If I were to ask myself that question, the answer seems to be "you cant"

The city sits on the conjunction of a major river.
It sits below sea level.
It sits right on the edge of the Gulf of Mexico.

Hurricanes will hit the city again.

Any preparations you do...can be overcome by nature.which would make building on the same Site rather... foolish, but moving to a more solid foundation and building there much easier.

Costly now, but cheaper in the long run.

1) this is a bad poll in that it splits the votes for relocate, making it a bad poll.

2) New Orleans doesnt need to be rebuilt because the damage done to it is overblown just wait guys....they already are admiting they overblew the death toll but a huge amount, I remember the media saying just after 9-11 that very night it happend there coulda been 20,000 dead!!! in all reguards it was around 3,000. This leads me to believe the death toll in NO wont even pass 1,000. Just wait and see, give it a month, if the death toll in NO goes over 1,000 i will publicly call myself stupid..if it doesnt you all must bow to my superior brain mass. And why hasnt anybody questioned the mayor of NO? if he said 10,000 died and I can assure you it wont be over 1,000 isnt that kinda proof the mayor is little bit out of touch with what is going on in his city to begin with?

3) They claim it will cost 150 billion...i am sure the government will throw that money around, cause hey its the government, not throwing money around means youre "not caring about the poor black man". So no doubt in my mind the government will throw that out, but i can openingly tell you the damage done wont be anywhere near that number at all on dollars. Though we will probably never know the true amount =(

I heard from the mayor that they are going to rebuild.


Well come on..if they dont hes out of the job...and think of all the government money he can get his corrupt greesy hands on....Crist the feds couldnt keep track of 5 billion from 9-11 that a damn country radio station in South Dakota got funds 9-11 and so did several other places around the whole damn country...just think how 150 billion is gonna be thrown around..a lot of scammers are gonna get rich as hell of this... usually people in power already...

I say rebuild, this is a oppertunity for a city to be built with a Master Plan.

I have heard that a bunch or rich people are going to the evacuees and offering them a few hundred dollars for their lots. They figure that the Feds will spend the money to clean it up and they will own the land for almost nothing. Then when people start to move back they can resell the lots for a huge profit. If those with that kind of money end up owning the land, you can bet they will also own the polititions that can make it happen.

with all the damage to New Orleans, one question I have...

Should they Repair the city, make it habitable again, repair the levies, make them Cat 5 resistant (if possible)...

or would it be better to relocate the city to areas above the sea level and rebuild?

Granted while New Orleans is steeped with history, to continue to live in a place that is sinking (or so I heard) it' would be inevitable that New Orleans would end up sunk anyway.

Note that the Netherlands also exist below sea level and exist quite well. I would opt for the rebuilding.

Edit: And when we do so perhaps we should blow off the ecofreaks who didn't want a hurricane barrier to be built in the first place? :rolleyes: Just a thought! ;)

http://www.professorbainbridge.com/2005/09/whos_really_to_.html

1) this is a bad poll in that it splits the votes for relocate, making it a bad poll.

2) New Orleans doesnt need to be rebuilt because the damage done to it is overblown just wait guys....they already are admiting they overblew the death toll but a huge amount, I remember the media saying just after 9-11 that very night it happend there coulda been 20,000 dead!!! in all reguards it was around 3,000. This leads me to believe the death toll in NO wont even pass 1,000. Just wait and see, give it a month, if the death toll in NO goes over 1,000 i will publicly call myself stupid..if it doesnt you all must bow to my superior brain mass. (


Im gonna hold you to this.

If the death toll is below 1000, I will bow to your superior brain mass.
If the death toll is 1001 or higher......

You get to publicly declare yourself stupid.

What I wanna know is why did they build it there in the first place. :confused:
The original city was built there because it was the only area at the mouth of the mississippi that was above sea level.