NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/03/katrina.castro/

HAVANA, Cuba (CNN) -- Cuban President Fidel Castro has offered to send help to the United States in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

At a nightly roundtable program on state-run television Friday, the Cuban leader said his nation was ready to send 1,100 doctors and 26 tons of medicine and equipment.

"Others have sent money; we are offering to save lives," he said.

Castro -- an enemy of U.S. President George W. Bush and frequent subject of condemnation from the White House -- said he would not comment on the U.S. government's response to the tragedy because "this is not the time to kick an adversary -- while he's down."

Castro said the doctors he was offering have international experience.

The United States has no diplomatic relations with Cuba. It remained unclear whether the White House would take Castro up on his offer.

After a massive earthquake in Bam, Iran, in December 2003, the United States sent aid -- even though the United States has no diplomatic ties with Iran.
I guess this certainly shows you the stark differences between Castro and Hitler.

Oh, and what would you think if President Bush turned the offer down?

I think he will turn it down no acutally I think he just won't address it...Castro will have some clause attached somewhere by where if the US accepts help form the embargoed country of Cuba the embargo will be lifted against Cuba...AS IT SHOULD BE :mad:

To be fair, the Cuban medical sector is actually world-class. Everything else is a load of crap, but their doctors are good. Weird, that. :confused:

But it would be politically unacceptable for the US, the same way accepting help from foreign navies was unacceptable to Russia a few years ago.

America dosn't need help and even if it did it would turn to its allies first who have better doctors who can speak English

I think he's offering aid beyond everyday politics with no embargo-removal clause, although it could be argued he's doing this to make him look better in our government's eyes.

I think the offer should be turned down. I think it should be turned down as tactfully as possible, noting the generosity of the offer.

Because it is a generous offer. It is a demonstration that the lives of innocent people trumps political powerplays. I think the world has come a long way from the Cold War. I'm glad to see it.

For me, the offer is enough.

It's not a question of "if", unfortunately.

George's pride gets in the way yet again.

Though I agree it's more likely to remain unadressed.

George's pride gets in the way yet again.

tell me when Bush pride has ever got in the way?

America dosn't need help and even if it did it would turn to its allies first who have better doctors who can speak English
Well besides Castro just doing this to be a dick, Cuban doctors are some of the best in the world in general.

Conservatives: Wah! Waah! Nobody sends us aid when we get hit by natural disasters! Wahhh!! - Oh, Castro's trying to send us aid? REFUSE IT! We don't need no commie doctors!

What the flying fuck, guys? Can't you at least stay on the same side of the fence? Why should it be turned down? So you can continue to bitch and whine that we never get aid?

NOTE: this is a poke at those who believe the above, not all conservatives - don't start a flame war.

Cuban doctors are some of the best in the world in general.

not if you look at the equipment and the power and fuel shortages

And they do speak English, believe me

Conservatives: Wah! Waah! Nobody sends us aid when we get hit by natural disasters! Wahhh!! - Oh, Castro's trying to send us aid? REFUSE IT! We don't need no commie doctors!

What the flying fuck, guys? Can't you at least stay on the same side of the fence? Why should it be turned down? So you can continue to bitch and whine that we never get aid?

at least read the first page before posting :rolleyes:

the U.S doesn’t need help

America dosn't need help and even if it did it would turn to its allies first who have better doctors who can speak English
Cuba's healthcare system is superior to the United States' system actually. For the size of their country, their medical technology is just about as advanced as ours. And they have a significantly higher percentage of doctors in the country than we do in ours. And they have more hospital beds per person than we do. Cuban medicine is so good, in fact, that many American and British medical students travel to Cuba to study medicine, then travel back to their home countries.

EDIT: You can hate Castro and denounce him for human rights violations, but there's no way you can denounce their healthcare.

Conservatives: Wah! Waah! Nobody sends us aid when we get hit by natural disasters! Wahhh!! - Oh, Castro's trying to send us aid? REFUSE IT! We don't need no commie doctors!

What the flying fuck, guys? Can't you at least stay on the same side of the fence? Why should it be turned down? So you can continue to bitch and whine that we never get aid?

NOTE: this is a poke at those who believe the above, not all conservatives - don't start a flame war.

why do you feel the need to insult conservatives?

And they do speak English, believe me

only as much as any Mexican (who are also willing to give help) in other words like me (a Brit) going to France to give a homeless guy a check-up

Cuba's healthcare system is superior to the United States' system actually. For the size of their country, their medical technology is just about as advanced as ours. And they have a significantly higher percentage of doctors in the country than we do in ours. And they have more hospital beds per person than we do. Cuban medicine is so good, in fact, that many American and British medical students travel to Cuba to study medicine, then travel back to their home countries.

EDIT: You can hate Castro and denounce him for human rights violations, but there's no way you can denounce their healthcare.

Indeed. Cuban medicine is rather famous throughout the world. India and Pakistan, for some reason, produces good doctors too.

Of course, one would have to take some interest in other nations in the world to learn such interesting and fun facts. :p

why do you feel the need to insult conservatives?

I didn't. Read the note at the bottom.

I didn't. Read the note at the bottom.

ok then...

SNIP

The U.S has all the doctors it needs right now its just taking the trapped people to hospitals and giving out food and water before they die of the heat that is causing all the press to criticize

only as much as any Mexican (who are also willing to give help) in other words like me (a Brit) going to France to give a homeless guy a check-up

Jeez, almost everyone moving to the USA speaks English. You have to be able to, pretty much. For us Brits, it's a little different since people don't integrate with our language or culture. But people going to the US, as far as I know, do.

Not accepting help would be cutting their noses to spite their faces. Cuba has good doctors, and the USA DOES need help. I would bet my bottom dollar that the Mayor of New Orleans or anyone stuck behind would welcome every single doctor and syringe Cuba can spare.

only as much as any Mexican (who are also willing to give help) in other words like me (a Brit) going to France to give a homeless guy a check-up
Castro said the doctors have international experience.

Therefore, they probably speak English. A lot of foreign countries strongly encourage learning English as well, because of its popularity and use in mainstream media. So, in France, Netherlands, and all throughout Europe, you'll find lots of people that speak English, even though it isn't an official language.

Jeez, almost everyone moving to the USA speaks English. You have to be able to, pretty much.
Not true. I remember hearing a statistic a while ago, of something like... half of all hispanic immigrants in the United States don't speak English.

The reason is twofold:
#1. Our culture is tolerant of it. We have Spanish radio, Spanish TV stations, and often use Spanish as if it were an alternate language (like in telephone trees or in government offices, they have Spanish-speakers). For janitorial work, construction, painting, or many other blue-collar jobs, employers don't require you to speak English because, quite honestly, a majority of the people in those industries are Spanish.
#2. They tend to move here in groups. In other words, when they get over here, they might already know a relative that's been here for a while and can speak English for them.

That's why there's currently a debate as to whether we should make English our official language... Or even more crazy: If we should make both English and Spanish our official languages.

The U.S has all the doctors it needs right now its just taking the trapped people to hospitals and giving out food and water before they die of the heat that is causing all the press to criticize
I have a better idea. The doctors can go to where the people are and treat them there instead of waiting around in hospitals for people to be brought int so they can charge them room fees.

Not true. I remember hearing a statistic a while ago, of something like... half of all hispanic immigrants in the United States don't speak English.

The reason is twofold:
#1. Our culture is tolerant of it. We have Spanish radio, Spanish TV stations, and often use Spanish as if it were an alternate language. For janitorial work, construction, painting, or many other blue-collar jobs, employers don't require you to speak English because, quite honestly, a majority of the people in those industries are Spanish.
#2. They tend to move here in groups. In other words, when they get over here, they might already know a relative that's been here for a while and speaks English.

That's why there's currently a debate as to whether we should make English our official language... Or even more crazy: If we should make both English and Spanish our official languages.
Honestly, they should be forced to learn english and stop dicking around. People in other countries (especially many European ones) learn English and most never plan to go anywhere where English is the official language. They are just taught to speak it.

That's why there's currently a debate as to whether we should make English our official language... Or even more crazy: If we should make both English and Spanish our official languages.

You're right. Spanish is plenty. :p

Not accepting help would be cutting their noses to spite their faces. Cuba has good doctors, and the USA DOES need help. I would bet my bottom dollar that the Mayor of New Orleans or anyone stuck behind would welcome every single doctor and syringe Cuba can spare.

if we send too many Doctors to the affected zones we would just end up spending most of our supplies on the doctors and just end up increasing the evacuation time also what are the doctors going to treat?

-heatstroke: for that you need to get out of the Sun and get some water

-dehydration: for that you need water

As you can see moving the sick to a hospital is much more important

Hugo Chavez Offers To Help Katrina Victims!

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/09/01/international/i164729D78.DTL
(09-01) 16:47 PDT CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) --

Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez is offering planeloads of soldiers and aid workers to help American victims of Hurricane Katrina, while at the same time taking aim at the U.S. government for its handling of the crisis.

Some critics on Thursday said Chavez, a leading voice for the Latin American left, seemed to be using the disaster to try to make the Bush administration look bad.

While confusion reigned in New Orleans, Chavez said the looting was to be expected under such circumstances.

"As more information comes out now, a terrible truth is becoming evident: That government doesn't have evacuation plans," Chavez said Wednesday night during a speech.

He called Bush "the king of vacations" and noted he had been at his Texas ranch and when the storm hit and didn't provide leadership. "There were many innocent people who left in the direction of the hurricane. No one told them where they should go."

A controversy erupted in another disaster situation in 1999 when Chavez turned down an offer for U.S. military engineers to come help reopen a main coastal highway following catastrophic floods and mudslides. He said Venezuela didn't need the Americans' help.

The U.S. government has yet to respond to Chavez's offer to send planeloads of aid, including 2,000 soldiers, firefighters, volunteers and other disaster specialists. Venezuela, the world's fifth largest oil exporter, also pledged $1 million in aid through its Citgo Petroleum Corp., plus fuel to help in hard-hit areas.

But Venezuelan commentator Ibsen Martinez, a frequent government critic, said the aid offer by Chavez seems to serve other intentions as well.

"He's trying to win a political game," Martinez said. "It's very astute."

Just as Chavez has been offering preferential oil deals to allies across the Americas, the aid offer and simultaneous criticism appear aimed at influencing international opinion and reinforcing support among the U.S. and Latin American left, Martinez said.

"I think he's speaking for the gallery. He's bragging," Martinez said, adding that sending aid to wealthier Americans could irritate some poor Venezuelans but that in general Chavez's remarks seemed aimed at putting forward a sympathetic face.

Venezuela is a leading supplier of fuel to the United States, though relations have been tense between Washington and Chavez, who says he is leading a "socialist" revolution and blames U.S. "imperialism" for many of the world's problems, from poverty to global warming.

Chavez's criticisms of the U.S. response to the disaster came two days after he met with the Rev. Jesse Jackson, who said he hoped their talks would help both sides cut down on "hostile rhetoric."

His government, meanwhile, has demanded U.S. authorities take legal action against conservative commentator Pat Robertson for suggesting on his TV program last week that Chavez should be assassinated because he poses a danger to the region. Robertson, founder of the Christian Coalition of America and a prominent Bush supporter, later apologized for his remarks.
Hahaha. :D

if we send too many Doctors to the affected zones we would just end up spending most of our supplies on the doctors and just end up increasing the evacuation time also what are the doctors going to treat?

-heatstroke: for that you need to get out of the Sun and get some water

-dehydration: for that you need water

As you can see moving the sick to a hospital is much more important
Don't be stupid. It's a lot worse than that.

A lot of the people there have had medical conditions, which they required medication for (particularly the elderly). So, doctors will be reacting to all kinds of problems. Many of them are also probably in critical condition, especially infants, and they don't just need a sandwich and a bottle of water. If it was that simple, the military could just drop food on them, like they did after they bombed Afghanistan.

I think he will turn it down no acutally I think he just won't address it...Castro will have some clause attached somewhere by where if the US accepts help form the embargoed country of Cuba the embargo will be lifted against Cuba...AS IT SHOULD BE :mad:No conditions to the offer, btw. No clause, no nothing.

I think he should accept the offer. I'd prefer that Cuba no longer be singled out the way it has been by the US and this might help end the silly embargo. I actually wonder how many of those doctors would return to Cuba once they were finished... :p

Don't be stupid. It's a lot worse than that.

A lot of the people there have had medical conditions, which they required medication for (particularly the elderly). So, doctors will be reacting to all kinds of problems. Many of them are also probably in critical condition, especially infants, and they don't just need a sandwich and a bottle of water. If it was that simple, the military could just drop food on them, like they did after they bombed Afghanistan.

then wouldn't a quick evacuation be more helpful?

and wouldn't it be easier to drop medical supplies for common illnesses like diabetes?

No conditions to the offer, btw. No clause, no nothing.

I think he should accept the offer. I'd prefer that Cuba no longer be singled out the way it has been by the US and this might help end the silly embargo. I actually wonder how many of those doctors would return to Cuba once they were finished... :p

communist Cuba will collapse in a few years due to fuel shortages and I think that would be good riddance considering its a totalitarian dictatorship

communist Cuba will collapse in a few years due to fuel shortages and I think that would be good riddance considering its a totalitarian dictatorship

Hehehe. Hardliners have been waiting 'just a few more years' since 1970. :p

Cuba isn't going to fall while Castro is alive. Probably not even afterward.

Assistance is assistance. There are no two ways about it.

If the Bush Administration is going to retain its current knee-jerk policy and refuse the offers of help from Venezula and Cuba because of their antiquated policies, then it'll be their problem when they sink to rock bottom at the next election. It would only show that they put their political agena ahead of the interests of their consituents. If they were really pro-life, they'd accept the offers, as proof that they give a damn.

Castro and Chavez had no reason to offer assistance to America; they have been getting the butt-end of America's scorn for certain parts of the world.

Bush is going to look like such an asshole if he and his administration rejects these offers, especially given the unjust and needless delay in the response to get aide down to those in dire need.

communist Cuba will collapse in a few years due to fuel shortages and I think that would be good riddance considering its a totalitarian dictatorshipYeah, except Cuba is less totalitarian than some other states we Americans are actually allowed to spend money in while travelling...

Hehehe. Hardliners have been waiting 'just a few more years' since 1970. :p

Cuba isn't going to fall while Castro is alive. Probably not even afterward.

but know even Castro is making cooking programs that show how to save power and powercuts are becoming more common to save fuel

He should offer to send cigars and rum.

Yeah, except Cuba is less totalitarian than some other states we Americans are actually allowed to spend money in while travelling...

dare you to go to Cuba and say Castro has a big butt then we will see how quickly you wind up in a torture cell :D

dare you to go to Cuba and say Castro has a big butt then we will see how quickly you wind up in a torture cell :D
Not if you say it in some really obsecure language and smile sweetly while you say it!

Should Bush accept an offer from Cuba? I bet he will, but he shouldn't. Yet there is a piece of hope, which is when the aid arrives. The survivors of Katrina should send the Cuban doctors back to Havana in shame, and throw their filthy medicine into the sea.

Not if you say it in some really obsecure language and smile sweetly while you say it!

then you would end up with Castro :D
1
:eek:

then you would end up with Castro :D
1
:eek:
Uhm... o_O;; uh...uh... uh....uhm... ah... *blink*

Uhm... o_O;; uh...uh... uh....uhm... ah... *blink*

Might be fun. *shrug*

dare you to go to Cuba and say Castro has a big butt then we will see how quickly you wind up in a torture cell :DI dare you to go to Iran and say Allah sucks. (You're actually allowed to spend money there, last I heard)
From talking to a friend of mine that's been there (Cuba, not Iran), you could actually get away with it in most cases.

Should Bush accept an offer from Cuba? I bet he will, but he shouldn't. Yet there is a piece of hope, which is when the aid arrives. The survivors of Katrina should send the Cuban doctors back to Havana in shame, and throw their filthy medicine into the sea.How very compassionate of you.

How very compassionate of you.
It was compassionate of Fidel to blackmail the entire continent, too. It's also compassionate that he's made his isle a hell of socialism.

HahHah hA! you think castros sending good medicine and good doctors no!
i swear people today will belive anything. Money cant kill out right so thats why hes sending doctors and medicine

HahHah hA! you think castros sending good medicine and good doctors no!
i swear people today will belive anything. Money cant kill out right so thats why hes sending doctors and medicine
Say again?

It was compassionate of Fidel to blackmail the entire continent, too. It's also compassionate that he's made his isle a hell of socialism.Blackmail the entire continent? I hope you're not referring to the Missile Crisis...

Bush should accept the offer because allowing your own citizens to suffer in order to spite your enemy is poor leadership. A leaders first concern should be his own poeple.
Now I want to address the stories going around of the supposed medical treatment Cuba has. While I support universal healthcare in the united states, don't look to cuba as an example.
http://www.therealcuba.com/Page10.htm
http://www.therealcuba.com/page3.htm
Cuba sends its best doctors aproad and the good ones kept at home are for foreigners, you might as well look to Kim for a model of socialism.

Should Bush accept an offer from Cuba? I bet he will, but he shouldn't. Yet there is a piece of hope, which is when the aid arrives. The survivors of Katrina should send the Cuban doctors back to Havana in shame, and throw their filthy medicine into the sea.


Wow, someone sure seems xenophobic! Did you also know that Cuba has the best medical system in this hemisphere? But you wouldn't care. You're just an asshole.

It was compassionate of Fidel to blackmail the entire continent, too. It's also compassionate that he's made his isle a hell of socialism.


Oh yeah, sure! Socialism is terrible when the best countries to live in in the world are socialist! (Germany, England, Canada, Norway, Sweden, Luxembourg, Switzerland, the list goes on and on) Get over yourself little boy, you don't know shit.

Absolutely, we should accept the offer. This is nk time for politicans to take the high road. People are DYING. We cannot afford to refuse help given by a nation we have treated so poorly, though not without cause

Ah, the good association falacy. "Sweeden has a good medical system, and their socialist, Cuba is socialist, so they must have a good medical system!"
I'm sure the Chinese have bridged the gap between rich and poor to!
Sweeden has a great medical system, but to associate Cuba's with it is only insulting Sweeden.

Oh yeah, sure! Socialism is terrible when the best countries to live in in the world are socialist! (Germany, England, Canada, Norway, Sweden, Luxembourg, Switzerland, the list goes on and on) Get over yourself little boy, you don't know shit.

he meant its a socialist hell hole as in its what happens when socialism fails misreably (its also a different kind of socialism to are European one)

Funky Evil

for the last time America dosn't need help!!!!!

he meant its a socialist hell hole as in its what happens when socialism fails misreably (its also a different kind of socialism to are European one)

Funky Evil

for the last time America dosn't need help!!!!!
YES IT DOS!

Sp Castro offered aid to the US to help clean up the damage done by hurricane Katrina. Well, get in line, so have several other (between 10 and 12 last i heard) foreign nations, and the United Nations. And at this point i dont think the US has accepted any of it. SO whats the big deal. Castro wants to help America. Thats a first. Humanitarian aid is much removed from politics, and Castro's, though intolerable, do not make him a monster.

America dosn't need help!!!!!No? Why are there still people dying then? America may have the capacity to deal with the situation, but it hasn't done so.
But you're right, America doesn't need help, it could use it though.

Here's a list of what is being offered (http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/09/03/katrina.world.aid.reut/index.html)

YES IT DOS!

really! do you see the U.S economy falling to pieces (well more than usual and not counting the oil) and do you see the medical resources running out? also do you see a pullout of Iraq so that troops can help in new Orleans? If so you wouldn’t mind making a bet on that would you? C’mon if Bush asks for help I will be your sex slave for a day and visa versa

HahHah hA! you think castros sending good medicine and good doctors no!
i swear people today will belive anything. Money cant kill out right so thats why hes sending doctors and medicine

You're just as stupid as Lotus Puppy. Where's your respect for the Shift key? Like on I? Mlysdexia on the internet forums everyone! We've got chimps typing right now!

Once again, Cuban doctors are some of the very best in the entire world, and so are their medical supplies. All this is for Castro is a chance to extend an olive branch, and possibly open up the chance for some diplomacy again. The Cold war (and Russian demanding) put the nukes in Cuba. What about our nukes in Turkey? Did the Russians break diplomatic ties with Turkey? Put an economic sanction on them? No. Only Americans are that petty.

No? Why are there still people dying then? America may have the capacity to deal with the situation, but it hasn't done so.
But you're right, America doesn't need help, it could use it though.

Here's a list of what is being offered (http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/09/03/katrina.world.aid.reut/index.html)


the reason why so many people are dying is because the city is so inaccessible there is scarcely any places for helicopters to land and the roads are in ruins now if you take all these into account I think you will agree America is doing everything possible other than calling superman!

really! do you see the U.S economy falling to pieces (well more than usual and not counting the oil) and do you see the medical resources running out? also do you see a pullout of Iraq so that troops can help in new Orleans? If so you wouldn’t mind making a bet on that would you? C’mon if Bush asks for help I will be your sex slave for a day and visa versa
"Good afternoon. On behalf of the employees of the State Department, our hearts and prayers go out to every citizen who has been affected by Katrina. I want every American to know that their government is doing everything it can to help get relief to those in need as quickly as possible.

Recently, we have seen the American people respond generously to help others around the globe during their times of distress, such as during the recent tsunami. Today, we are seeing a similar urgent, warm and compassionate reaction from the international community in response to Katrina.

I want to express the heartfelt thanks of the President, the United States Government and all Americans, to the leaders and citizens of the many nations and international organizations that have already offered kind and generous support. Organizations like the United Nations, NATO, the Organization of American States, the European Union, and others are showing their solidarity with us during this time.

You have the updated list of countries from every corner of the globe that are offering their help, countries like Canada and Italy, the Netherlands, Russia, Israel, China, Azerbaijan, the Philippines, El Salvador, Australia, Turkey and many others. I want to note in particular that we received a generous offer of support from Sri Lanka, a country that, as we speak, is still recovering from its own massive natural disaster. Every contribution is important; and over the past few days, I have been in contact with a wide range of officials from other nations and international organizations to respond to these offers of support.

The State Department is coordinating closely with the Department of Homeland Security to match these offers of support with the needs on the ground. Some of the needs will be longer-term needs as those areas and citizens hit by Katrina recover and begin to rebuild their lives, their families and their futures. In my discussions with my counterparts I've been heartened at their offers of both short-term and long-term support. "

For those that feel Castro has created a good medical system in Cuba, take a look at some solid statistics.

*asterisks mark categories America is ahead in
54th longest life expectency at birth* (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/hea_lif_exp_at_bir_tot_pop)
24th greatest access to sanitation* (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/hea_acc_to_san)
57th greatest drinking water availability* (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/hea_dri_wat_ava)
147th lowest infant mortality rate (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/hea_inf_mor_rat)

All this is for Castro is a chance to extend an olive branch, and possibly open up the chance for some diplomacy again. The Cold war (and Russian demanding) put the nukes in Cuba. What about our nukes in Turkey? Did the Russians break diplomatic ties with Turkey? Put an economic sanction on them? No. Only Americans are that petty.

so your telling me Russia was in the position to threaten nuclear war with Turkey I think you forgetting Russia backed down after seeing that it couldn’t stand a chance against NATO

Also why should we lift the embargo I think your forgetting the totalitarian dictatorship of Cuba isn’t too fond of the west if we keep this up Cuba will run out of fuel and collapse

the reason why so many people are dying is because the city is so inaccessible there is scarcely any places for helicopters to land and the roads are in ruins now if you take all these into account I think you will agree America is doing everything possible other than calling superman!Doing, yes. Did, no. The threat of what really happened was well known. The time when it would happen was pretty sure. There could have been things ready to go the moment the winds let down.

so your telling me Russia was in the position to threaten nuclear war with Turkey I think you forgetting Russia backed down after seeing that it couldn’t stand a chance against NATO

Also why should we lift the embargo I think your forgetting the totalitarian dictatorship of Cuba isn’t too fond of the west if we keep this up Cuba will run out of fuel and collapse
Um...right. We had intermediate missles in turkey which were withdrawn in exchange for a withdrawl of missles from Cuba. That's why the missles were placed in cuba in the first place...

SNIP

1) no source

2) Bush hasn't asked for it (in fact I don't think its even going to be accepted considering the worst is over)

Ah, the good association falacy. "Sweeden has a good medical system, and their socialist, Cuba is socialist, so they must have a good medical system!"
I'm sure the Chinese have bridged the gap between rich and poor to!
Sweeden has a great medical system, but to associate Cuba's with it is only insulting Sweeden.


Do I need to spell it out?
http://www.worldmarketsanalysis.com/InFocus2002/articles/americas_Cuba_health.html

As good as other industrialized countries, and the best in Latin America. End of discussion.

1) no source

2) Bush hasn't asked for it (in fact I don't think its even going to be accepted considering the worst is over)
State deparment of the United States.

Um...right. We had intermediate missles in turkey which were withdrawn in exchange for a withdrawl of missles from Cuba. That's why the missles were placed in cuba in the first place...

the missiles were withdrawn because they would of fallen to a Russian stack quickly the replacement missiles were sent to Europe were it was a much stronger position and closer to Moscow

State deparment of the United States.

um link?

so your telling me Russia was in the position to threaten nuclear war with Turkey I think you forgetting Russia backed down after seeing that it couldn’t stand a chance against NATOWhen did NATO stand a chance of creaming Russia?

um link?
Arms broken?


www.state.gov

the missiles were withdrawn because they would of fallen to a Russian stack quickly the replacement missiles were sent to Europe were it was a much stronger position and closer to MoscowDoesn't really matter much. What matters is what the Russians were thinking.

the missiles were withdrawn because they would of fallen to a Russian stack quickly the replacement missiles were sent to Europe were it was a much stronger position and closer to Moscow
"Khrushchev sent letters to Kennedy on October 23 and 24 claiming the deterrent nature of the missiles in Cuba and the peaceful intentions of the Soviet Union; however, the Soviets had delivered two different deals to the US government. On October 26, they offered to withdraw the missiles in return for a U.S. guarantee not to invade Cuba or support any invasion. The second deal was broadcast on public radio on October 27, calling for the withdrawal of U.S. missiles from Turkey in addition to the demands of the 26th. The crisis peaked on October 27, when a U-2 (piloted by Rudolph Anderson) was shot down over Cuba and another U-2 flight over Russia was almost intercepted. At the same time, Soviet merchant ships were nearing the quarantine zone. Kennedy responded by publicly accepting the first deal and sending Robert Kennedy to the Soviet embassy to accept the second in private - the small number (fifteen) of Jupiter missiles near Izmir, Turkey would be removed. The Soviet ships turned back and on October 28 Khrushchev announced that he had ordered the removal of the Soviet missiles in Cuba."

en.wikipedia.org

When did NATO stand a chance of creaming Russia?

lets see how many nukes did America have at the time?

also thoughout the cold war Russia lacked the industry and econamy to have a large enough force to take on America and the Warsaw pact nations couldn't take on western Europe

lets see how many nukes did America have at the time?

also thoughout the cold war Russia lacked the industry and econamy to have a large enough force to take on America and the Warsaw pact nations couldn't take on western Europe
Both countries would have been defeated. Widely known that the US/NATO couldn't stop the Russians from pouring over into Europe, and the conflict would have had to have gone nuclear. (Source: The Cold War: A History, Martin Walker)

Do I need to spell it out?
http://www.worldmarketsanalysis.com/InFocus2002/articles/americas_Cuba_health.html

As good as other industrialized countries, and the best in Latin America. End of discussion.
really because according to that article Cuba is behind France Germany, Us, and UK, In everything but doctors per 100,000. So they have more doctors...but worse health.
Also, for your allegation that its the best in latin america, the life expectancy is behind Puerto Rico, Burmuda, St Helena and Martinique.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/hea_lif_exp_at_bir_tot_pop

lets see how many nukes did America have at the time?

also thoughout the cold war Russia lacked the industry and econamy to have a large enough force to take on America and the Warsaw pact nations couldn't take on western EuropeAt what time? From the reading I've been doing, Russia had zounds more ground troops than NATO could muster against the Warsaw Pact. The 80s were most certainly dominated by the idea that the USSR was only held back by MAD.

then wouldn't a quick evacuation be more helpful?

and wouldn't it be easier to drop medical supplies for common illnesses like diabetes?
Dropping medical supplies for things like diabetes is silly, because it'd mostly be a waste.

Right now, they're doing both... It's just like a refugee camp. They're trying to evacuate people as quickly as possible, but if anyone is in critical condition, they're going to need to give them medical treatment as well.

He should offer to send cigars and rum.
Actually, that would be a bad idea.. I just saw on the news that the military is dumping alcohol from stores and disposing of cigarettes, to give looters less to loot, haha.

HahHah hA! you think castros sending good medicine and good doctors no!
i swear people today will belive anything. Money cant kill out right so thats why hes sending doctors and medicine
Hahaha. Whatever... Why the hell would Castro send 26 tons of poison, and 1,100 assassins to the U.S.?

I mean, if he was planning on doing it (risking war), he'd have done it before Katrina.

Arms broken?


www.state.gov

it says the funds are going to the red cross which is for immediate disaster relief e.g. temporary shelters and as you can see hotels are being used (it's just a sneaky way to get funding to the charities)

SNIP

do tell how that proves me wrong :rolleyes:

it says the funds are going to the red cross which is for immediate disaster relief e.g. temporary shelters and as you can see hotels are being used (it's just a sneaky way to get funding to the charities)
http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2005/52478.htm

That one.

do tell how that proves me wrong :rolleyes:
You mean that we withdrew missles from turkey?

so your telling me Russia was in the position to threaten nuclear war with Turkey I think you forgetting Russia backed down after seeing that it couldn’t stand a chance against NATO

Russia was threatening nuclear war with us unless we withdrew our missles from Turkey. They didn't 'back down', dispite what propaganda on both sides says, each side ended up getting what it wanted.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/03/katrina.castro/


I guess this certainly shows you the stark differences between Castro and Hitler.

Oh, and what would you think if President Bush turned the offer down?

1. No help has been turned down nor has anything been accepted.

2. Good for Castro for offering doctors.

At what time? From the reading I've been doing, Russia had zounds more ground troops than NATO could muster against the Warsaw Pact. The 80s were most certainly dominated by the idea that the USSR was only held back by MAD.

The USSR did have more ground troops but the equipment they were working with was very much inferior also the Intel was terrible e.g. a translation error caused the Russians to think a zoo was an airport

also the USSR never caught up with America in nuclear armament

Does Bush need to accept the offer from Castro? No.
Do the victims of Katrina need Bush or Castro? No.
Do the victims of Katrina need doctors? Yes.

http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2005/52478.htm

That one.

Madame Secretary, no offer has been turned down, but according to FEMA, from them at least, no offer has been accepted yet. I mean, what good is it to have, you know, nearly 60 countries step forward and offer assistance and apparently, at least as far as FEMA is concerned, they haven't been able to accept any of those offers

yes that one

The USSR did have more ground troops but the equipment they were working with was very much inferior also the Intel was terrible e.g. a translation error caused the Russians to think a zoo was an airport

also the USSR never caught up with America in nuclear armament
Dead wrong.

http://www.thebulletin.org/article_nn.php?art_ofn=nd94norris

Estimated U.S. and Soviet/Russian Nuclear Stockpile, 1945-94
1977 25,800 (Total US), 28,400 (Total USSR)

yes that one
SECRETARY RICE: Well, as we are speaking or perhaps just a little bit before we were speaking, there is a group that is working. Harry Thomas, who is the Executive Secretary here at the State Department and is the person who is in charge of coordinating this international effort, he is working with FEMA to go through the list, to see what might be used in the short term.

Obviously, in some cases, in places like New Orleans, it's a matter of access; but, to see which of the offers can be taken up immediately, which others might need to be taken up somewhat later, but we are matching those offers now to the needs on the ground.


They are accepting them. It's taking time to go through the list and figure out what is needed, where.

Hugo Chavez Offers To Help Katrina Victims!

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/09/01/international/i164729D78.DTL

Hahaha. :D

I may not like Chavez but right now, send it El Presidente. Can't wait for the State Department to begin to accept aid.

BTW: Canada is sending down 3 warships loaded with supplies plus 1000 troops to help with Katrina Relief!

Gotta love the Canucks.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/03/katrina.castro/


I guess this certainly shows you the stark differences between Castro and Hitler.

Oh, and what would you think if President Bush turned the offer down?

You fool, this is purely a political ploy. Castro knows that Bush'll refuse. It is both a 'mickey-taking' opportunity and a chance (when Bush says no) to gain some more idiot leftist support. (I am a Liberal btw)

Russia was threatening nuclear war with us unless we withdrew our missles from Turkey. They didn't 'back down', dispite what propaganda on both sides says, each side ended up getting what it wanted.

yes but Russia did swiftly pull out of Cuba showing the world that the USSR wasn't prepared to fight America (even if it had a right to put nukes in a willing country)

America dosn't need help and even if it did it would turn to its allies first who have better doctors who can speak English

You've obviously never been to Cuba, and are just an ignorant jerk saying things like this.
If America didn't have its head so far up its ass, it would realize that Cuba is actually a beautiful place, and the Cold War is long over.
The rest of the world enjoys Cuba. Why does America have to keep rattling sabers with them?
Politicians suck. That's why.

yes but Russia did swiftly pull out of Cuba showing the world that the USSR wasn't prepared to fight America (even if it had a right to put nukes in a willing country)
In exchange for the US pulling its nukes out of turkey, showing the world that the US wasn't prepared to fight the USSR.

No? Why are there still people dying then? America may have the capacity to deal with the situation, but it hasn't done so.
But you're right, America doesn't need help, it could use it though.

Here's a list of what is being offered (http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/09/03/katrina.world.aid.reut/index.html)

Thanks for the full list Laerod. It is much appreciated. All of it looks good too. Hopefully, we'll take most of it.

"Good afternoon. On behalf of the employees of the State Department, our hearts and prayers go out to every citizen who has been affected by Katrina. I want every American to know that their government is doing everything it can to help get relief to those in need as quickly as possible.

Recently, we have seen the American people respond generously to help others around the globe during their times of distress, such as during the recent tsunami. Today, we are seeing a similar urgent, warm and compassionate reaction from the international community in response to Katrina.

I want to express the heartfelt thanks of the President, the United States Government and all Americans, to the leaders and citizens of the many nations and international organizations that have already offered kind and generous support. Organizations like the United Nations, NATO, the Organization of American States, the European Union, and others are showing their solidarity with us during this time.

You have the updated list of countries from every corner of the globe that are offering their help, countries like Canada and Italy, the Netherlands, Russia, Israel, China, Azerbaijan, the Philippines, El Salvador, Australia, Turkey and many others. I want to note in particular that we received a generous offer of support from Sri Lanka, a country that, as we speak, is still recovering from its own massive natural disaster. Every contribution is important; and over the past few days, I have been in contact with a wide range of officials from other nations and international organizations to respond to these offers of support.

The State Department is coordinating closely with the Department of Homeland Security to match these offers of support with the needs on the ground. Some of the needs will be longer-term needs as those areas and citizens hit by Katrina recover and begin to rebuild their lives, their families and their futures. In my discussions with my counterparts I've been heartened at their offers of both short-term and long-term support. "

Apparently, we are going to accept help from the International Community. Good. I posted the link to the whole thing a few times but no one seemed to care or tried to use it to argue against me regarding aide.

I do hope we accept help because right now, we need it.

SECRETARY RICE: Well, as we are speaking or perhaps just a little bit before we were speaking, there is a group that is working. Harry Thomas, who is the Executive Secretary here at the State Department and is the person who is in charge of coordinating this international effort, he is working with FEMA to go through the list, to see what might be used in the short term.

Obviously, in some cases, in places like New Orleans, it's a matter of access; but, to see which of the offers can be taken up immediately, which others might need to be taken up somewhat later, but we are matching those offers now to the needs on the ground.


They are accepting them. It's taking time to go through the list and figure out what is needed, where.

This just destroyed the whole arguement that we turned down international help. CSW, keep it up. You are absolutely right in this case :)

really! do you see the U.S economy falling to pieces (well more than usual and not counting the oil) and do you see the medical resources running out? also do you see a pullout of Iraq so that troops can help in new Orleans? If so you wouldn’t mind making a bet on that would you? C’mon if Bush asks for help I will be your sex slave for a day and visa versa
As bizarre as your offer is, I must decline. Maybe a gentlemen's bet? But the thing is, Bush won't "ask" for help. He's too much of a New England Cowboy for that. But ask anyone down in New Orleans if they'd like the help. Go ahead, ask. But maybe instead of offering your services, you could offer up a bit of cash instead.

America dosn't need help and even if it did it would turn to its allies first who have better doctors who can speak English
USA has formally requested help from other lands. There's no reason to be ashamed of this, it was a huge natural disaster.

Sweden is sending a plane of aid from Göteborg tomorrow. Among other things, we are sending water purification equipment.

I believe the USA should use this opportunity to accept Cuba's aid. It would be a strong and well respected gesture by the rest of the world. We have seen enemies come closer due to natural disasters in the past (e.g. Greece and Turkey), at least some good could come out of this if it leads to talks and hopefully an end to the embargo by USA of Cuba.

I think Bush should accept this offer, also, since this proves that Castro is not evil like Hitler, Bush should just end his silly embargo, as you can't just embargo a nation because it has a specific government type.

I think Bush should accept this offer, also, since this proves that Castro is not evil like Hitler, Bush should just end his silly embargo, as you can't just embargo a nation because it has a specific government type.

Actually, it really isn't his embargo so to say that it is his embargo is incorrect. The embargo has been in place for over 40 years!

Actually, it really isn't his embargo so to say that it is his embargo is incorrect. The embargo has been in place for over 40 years!
Well, the point is that the embarg is stupid (you should not just embargo a nation because of its government type). To tell the truth, embargoes are stupid altogheter.

Blackmail the entire continent? I hope you're not referring to the Missile Crisis...
That, and more. Why should the American people support a ruthless dictator with accolades and gratitude, and a dictator who, mind you, has a weaker ideaology than they do?

America dosn't need help and even if it did it would turn to its allies first who have better doctors who can speak English
Because heaven knows very few of the people in NO speak Spanish as their first language...

Because heaven knows very few of the people in NO speak Spanish as their first language...

I thought French was their first language? After all it used to be a french city.

They Should Accept it. Castro has begun to act much better these days and I think this is a good step in stopping the Cuba\US hatred.

Let them hate each other. That's their job. Their narrow life revolves around their respective little country's politics. If they had no enemy they would loose their existance.

perhaps fidel should look into helping his own people first?

I voted No, President Bush should not accept Dictator Fidel Castro's offer.

Lol, Yes Lol.

While the Cuban people are suffering power blackouts of
8 to 10 hours a day, and the hotels for tourists and ex Cuban nationals are not but these hotels are forbidden to Cuban Citizens by the Cuban government.

While the Cuban people have to use ration cards issued by the governemt, to buy certain products.

While most Cubans have to rely on the extensive black market and family remitances the Cuban government forces on its own citizens.

While Dictator Fidel Castro for life sends doctors and educators to other nations and Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez is financing this, that is creating a shortage
of doctors in Cuba for Cubans Citizens.

All this offer is for political reasons and self satisfaction.

The so called embargo actually does not exsist anymore,
Cuba trades with the democratic European Union nations, Canada, Australia, New Zeeland, Japan, Mexico and other nations.

The only thing Cuba does not have is excess to American loans and credits and has to pay cash on a pay as you buy basis while trading with all the other democratic nations above.

I assure you, if they get those loans and credits they wiil pay the minimum just to get by, and the reason they want that is to see if their regime survives a pro Castro government, so the governing privliged elite can maintain itself in power, and influence, or may even become the new rich upper class, or part of that new rich upper class,
that is the goal of the privliged governing elite of Dictator Fidel Castro for life.

And where are the political, economic and social reforms of the Cuban government, there arent any because the dictatorship refuses to make them.

Refuses to dismantle the neiboorhod Commitees for the Defense of the revolution that report you to the police if you disagree with any government policy and keeps records of every citizens loyalty or not to the Revolution.

What happend to former political prisoner Oswaldo Paya's
Varela project where he first gatherd over 10,000 signitures and then over 20,000 signitures for a referandum on political, economic and social reforms in Cuba and a process to bring it about should the referandum pass, as allowed for under the Cuban Constitution.

Dictator Fidel Castro announced a 3 day counter pettion drive to declare Cuba's economic, political and social system unchangeable, which according to the Cuban government was singed and approved by over 99.25 percent of Cuban eligible voters.

And approved by the Cuban National Assembly when he convened it by all members for and o against.

Does anyone belive that any so called Cuban or goverment representative would dare go against a
Fidel Castro decided policy?

Would we want to live in a nation like that, would we want our nation of origin to be like that?

Thank you for your poll vote of no to those 16 nations so far, thank you Schrandtopia and the other 15 nations.

----------------------------------------------------------------

I would have made this a public poll, if we are to vote and express our diffrent views on Nationstates than we should do it with a public poll.

Thousands of politacl prisoners toil away in Cuba's prisons, and there are actually asses who belive we should accept help from Castro. Castro is a scumbag.

Fuck Castro.

Do you think the one's who defend and support and excuse dictator Fidel Castro for life, believe my outrageous sounding but yet
true posts on Cuba or not?

Cuban demonstrators clash marking tugboat sinking

Wed Jul 13, 4:26 PM ET
Yahoo!
HAVANA (Reuters) - Cuban dissidents scuffled with supporters of President Fidel Castro on Wednesday as the demonstrators commemorated the deadly 1994 sinking of a tugboat packed with people trying to flee the country.

The 19 demonstrators marched to Havana's Malecon sea wall with posters of about 40 people, many of them children, who drowned when the stolen tug was rammed by Cuban coast guard gunboats.

The dissidents threw white flowers into the sea and chanted "Justice! Liberty!" but were quickly surrounded and outnumbered by angry supporters of Cuba's Communist government. The Castro supporters pushed and kicked them, shouting "Fidel, Fidel, this street belongs to Fidel," and forced the dissidents to disperse.

Two people, including the leader of the dissident group, Yusimi Jil Portal, were arrested on their way to the protest, dissident Emilio Leiva said.

Survivors of the 1994 tragedy said coast guard boats sprayed the tug with jets of water and rammed it several times until it sank seven miles offshore.

"They wanted to emigrate to the United States because of the extreme poverty that Castro has led the country to," Leiva said.

Cuban authorities maintain the sinking was an accident and blame the United States for encouraging Cubans to leave the island illegally by offering almost automatic residence as political refugees.

One Old Havana resident, watching the demonstrators go by, said he supported their protest.

"I want to go to another country. If they sent a ship many would want to leave," said Nestor, a janitor who earns $10 a month.

In a separate incident on Wednesday, a group of central Havana residents took to the street to complain about recent power outages that have left Cuban cities without electricity for hours, witnesses said.

The demonstrators shouted "Down with Fidel" and were soon surrounded by government supporters who beat them with sticks, a witness said.

REPRESSION IN CUBA
Cuba's biggest threat: New ideas and information.
A government threatened by outside views needs to repress free expression in order to sustain itself. As so it has come to pass that mere conversation has landed two Czech citizens in jail in Cuba.

Ivan Pilip, a member of the Czech Republic Parliament and former finance minister, and Jan Bubenik, a student leader of the 1989 Velvet Revolution and president of the Czech Pro-Democracy Foundation, were detained by Cuban authorities after the two met with two local dissidents in central Cuba on Friday.

In similar cases, such pesky foreigners routinely have been expelled. But yesterday the Cuban regime announced that Messrs. Pilip and Bubenik would be sent to trial. A diatribe in the state-owned newspaper said that the men violated their tourist status by making ``subversive contacts'' with ``counterrevolutionaries.''

The truth is that Cuba's bankrupt regime cannot survive any close examination. The free flow of information and ideas, however modest, is its biggest threat. So while the world has opened to Cuba, as exhorted to by Pope John Paul II in 1998, Cuba's regime hasn't opened to the world.

Instead it has clamped down, harassing and detaining struggling dissidents regularly. Such repression has well led to increasing international condemnation of Cuba's human-rights abuses.

The regime wasn't happy last April when the Czech Republic, along with Poland, presented a resolution before the United Nations Human Rights Commission condemning Cuba's practices. Relations with the Czech Republic have been strained since.

Too bad for Messrs. Pilip and Bubenik, protagonists of their country's peaceful transition to democracy from Soviet-style communism -- dangerous role models for a totalitarian state.

If the regime is determined to make an example of the Czechs, it will do so. The example that they'll really represent, however, is that of the continuing abuse of Cuban citizens and of foreigners who have ``politically incorrect'' ideas.


Copyright 2001 Miami Herald

North Korea's Red Cross expresses sympathy to the people who suffered from Hurrican Katrina.

Also, Iran is even offering help.

This goes to show that this is above politics!

Now utility crews are planning to enter the city. :)

Originally Posted by Laerod
No? Why are there still people dying then? America may have the capacity to deal with the situation, but it hasn't done so.
But you're right, America doesn't need help, it could use it though.

Here's a list of what is being offered



Yeah, go Australia! we're offering more monetary aid ($10million AU , 7.5million US$) than those oil-rich bastards in the middle east that get all their money from american SUV owners and soccer moms in giant petrol (gas)- consuming vehicles. At least our government accepts the fact that the American people are among the most generous in the world and if given the opportunity, would be among the first to come to Australia's aid in times of crisis.

La Habana Cuba, I understand your anger against Castro but I'd like to show you the bigger picture. Leading a country is not an easy task. You point out Cuba but if you dig a little more you will see you can say what you say about any country :

While the Cuban people are suffering power blackouts of
8 to 10 hours a day, and the hotels for tourists and ex Cuban nationals are not but these hotels are forbidden to Cuban Citizens by the Cuban government.
In Louisiana, they have full days blackout. In the rest of the US, only those who can afford it hava access to electricity.
And hotels in the US are only for the rich bourgeous who can afford it.

While the Cuban people have to use ration cards issued by the governemt, to buy certain products.The ration cards are distributed evenly among the population. In the US, ration is money (this is the same thing really), except money is not evenly distributed. The rich bourgeois have big rations and the porrest have no ration at all.

While most Cubans have to rely on the extensive black market and family remitances the Cuban government forces on its own citizens.
In the US, many people have to rely on crime to survive (or to become a bourgeois). They have to exploit the children in the factories in the thirs world in order to afford cheap clothes and cheap food.

While Dictator Fidel Castro for life sends doctors and educators to other nations and Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez is financing this, that is creating a shortage
of doctors in Cuba for Cubans Citizens.

There is no shortage of doctors in Cuba. Cuba has more doctors per capita than the US. In the US, there is a big sortage of doctors for the poors.

All this offer is for political reasons and self satisfaction.

Like any country leader would do. The US never sends any aid without asking for political change in return. And the government is not ashamed at all of that

And where are the political, economic and social reforms of the Cuban government, there arent any because the dictatorship refuses to make them.
I don't see any political change in the US either.

Refuses to dismantle the neiboorhod Commitees for the Defense of the revolution that report you to the police if you disagree with any government policy and keeps records of every citizens loyalty or not to the Revolution.

I don't see the US dismantling his cold war sized army and its propaganda machine or the CIA.

Would we want to live in a nation like that, would we want our nation of origin to be like that?You do.

Of course there would be a better way where the world would come together and peace and harmony would prevail beyond borders.

I believe Castro is trying his best to make progress, but the world is not simple. Conservatives don't profit from progress. They keep their borders as high as possible because they profit from the status quo

Foreigners attempt to assassinate the U.S. President - It's terrorism.

The U.S. attempts to assassinate Saddam Hussein, Fidel Castro, or Hugo Chavez - It's justice.

Doe anyone really believe Dictator Fidel Castro is making this offer out of the goodness of his heart and not for political reasons to gain simphaty and support for something he wants?

Like I said the embargo actually dosent exsist anymore, what the Cuban government wants are American loans and credits to try to remain in power after Fidel Castro dies, please read my previous post for more details on this.

As a Right-Winger, I feel we should repair relations between us and Cuba. Communism is dead as it is. They, just like China and Venezuela, are only Communist in name. When Real Communism died, you see that living conditions skyrocketed.

Fidel Castro has been good for Cuba.

He's reformed Education.

He's increased the quality of life, made the literacy rate skyrocket, and lowered infant mortality, and made Cuba a much better place generally. Compare it to Brazil, where most people live on less then $1 a day.

He deserves a Medal. He's one of the most successful leaders in the world, and kept Cuba, and the inhabiitants of Cuba from Poverty, and other bad stuff.

As a Right-Winger, I feel we should repair relations between us and Cuba. Communism is dead as it is. They, just like China and Venezuela, are only Communist in name. When Real Communism died, you see that living conditions skyrocketed.

Fidel Castro has been good for Cuba.

He's reformed Education.

He's increased the quality of life, made the literacy rate skyrocket, and lowered infant mortality, and made Cuba a much better place generally. Compare it to Brazil, where most people live on less then $1 a day.

He deserves a Medal. He's one of the most successful leaders in the world, and kept Cuba, and the inhabiitants of Cuba from Poverty, and other bad stuff.
I agree with you on something?

i think we should definately accept though Bush probably won't.

One thing that bothers me is how the report says we have "no diplomatic ties." Then why the fuck do our leaders insist on keeping a base there. God just leave Cuba the fuck alone and treat them as equals!

You know I just remembered something after the last hurricane to hit Cuba recently befor this one, even though the damage is not comparable to New Orleans, Dictator for life Fidel Castro refused aid from the USA.

But he asked for American Dollar $ money instead, even from native Cubans in the USA which he calls worms, scum, intransigent, and the Miami Mafia.

Now does anyone really believe he is making this offer out of the goodness and kindness of his heart and not for political reasons to gain simpathy, and support with the American congress and the American people for something he may want.

Think about it, my post makes sense.

native Cubans in the USA which he calls worms, scum, intransigent, and the Miami Mafia.

Many are.

Psylos and what is dictator Fidel Castro to you, that even if you agreed with his economic, political and social points of view, he would not allow you to own a personal home computer, cable or satelite dishes, and opportunity to
share your views with your fellow nations on a site like Nationstates.

1. Clinton never lifted the sanctions, go bitch about him not doing it to you neo-liberals.

2. We dont need Castro's help...are allies help will do just fine.

3. Screw Commies.

If Bush turned it down, we know it's just him.

Now, if Lil Kim Jong-Il offers to send stuff, Cheney would have a stroke.

Psylos and what is dictator Fidel Castro to you, that even if you agreed with his economic, political and social points of view, he would not allow you to own a personal home computer, cable or satelite dishes, and opportunity to
share your views with your fellow nations on a site like Nationstates.
They have internet there. I communicate frequently with people from there on the internet and I also know some people who went there and they sent me emails from there. They said the people were very friendly and they liked the spirit of Cuba.

If I may, I would like to share a personal story with my fellow nations without mentioning names, and some of you may already have seen this post before on other threads.

My girl cousin in Cuba works at a government company office with computers, she has a job that is better than mine, a job that would pay good anywhere in the world except Cuba and she rides a bycle to work.

She is allowed or was allowed to send me e-mails from her work, as long as she doesnt say anything bad. I never say anything political, but recently on my last e-mail I got a response back on my computer system from Cuba saying not allowed for political reasons, this has happend to many cubans in the USA.

Psylos may have been communicating with government people, also high government oficials may have personal home computers.

I have heard reports that even tourists at hotels where they have computers available have been blocked from various sites through a fire wall by the Cuban goverrnment.

I think they allowed my girl cousin to send me e-mail to see if she would ask me to send her $ money and goods.

I would like to mention something that many peoples comments in this thread summons to my mind.

A fair while ago, the Indian government was really beginning to computerize, or whatever the term is. Major representitives of Microsoft and Open Source software were there, sponsoring their respective products.
Bill gates offered a huge donation from his charity, to fight AIDs, I think, or something similar.
Needless to say, the open source representitive said the gift was generally bad and shouldn't be accepted - 'He's just offering you money so you'll pick his software!' (calling it blackmail) - India replied that the critisism was unfair, as, whatever the motive, it was a real gift that India benefited greatly from and shouldn't be viewed as a mean act.

I think that somewhat parallels this situation.

Also; It never ceases to amaze me the patriotism the American propaganda machine produces. I don't even notice anything signifigant being done (albeit I am not often in the US) and you get people such as Call to Power and the like.

Postscript: India's government uses MS Windows.

I dont think this should be an issue of pride. Why not accept the offer from Cuba. They have fine doctors who are able to help the thousands of injured and sick people that the United States may not be able to attend to. Honestly if a country such as Spain had a similar crisis, I'd bet the Americans would be one of the first to react, they have set that precedent. Why can't another country assume the role of the provider/helper.

Wejon, like I posted before, Castro did not accept US aid after the last hurricane to hit Cuba, now he offers aid while the Cuban people are suffering blackouts everyday and other problems I have described in my other posts.

Does anyone believe he makes this offer out of the goodness and kindness of his heart without a political motive?

I know the damage of the two hurricanes are not comparable, and I understand the argument of my fellow nations that say we should accept the aid no matter what
to help those victims.

If President Bush accepts the offer, nothing will stop congress from giving the dictator for life everything he wants, this I cannot accept, and I think Castro knows it.

But even if you disagree with me on everything Castro represents at least understand my personal position from my point of view, I cannot accept this, and it is not because I dont want to help those victims, I have sent in my donation to the hurricane victims, and the USA already has enough nations sending and offering aid to help them.

I respect that you have contributed but I honestly dont care about political motives right now. Many people in our nation need medical help and that should be the number one priority.

you get people such as Call to Power and the like.

weird how I'm English isn't it (and allot is being done)

Thank you Wejon for your respect.

This will probably be my last post on this thread, unless someone defends, or excuse dictatorFidel Castro for life and I feel like I have to defend myself while at the same time being polite.

I think most nations understand my personal reasons why I cannot accept the aid from Cuba, If it happens it happens and I know many victims will be helped and that is a good thing.

I can and I should send another donation.

I think this is my last post on this thread, unless you know.

Thank you

If I may, I would like to share a personal story with my fellow nations without mentioning names, and some of you may already have seen this post before on other threads.

My girl cousin in Cuba works at a government company office with computers, she has a job that is better than mine, a job that would pay good anywhere in the world except Cuba and she rides a bycle to work.

She is allowed or was allowed to send me e-mails from her work, as long as she doesnt say anything bad. I never say anything political, but recently on my last e-mail I got a response back on my computer system from Cuba saying not allowed for political reasons, this has happend to many cubans in the USA.

Psylos may have been communicating with government people, also high government oficials may have personal home computers.

I have heard reports that even tourists at hotels where they have computers available have been blocked from various sites through a fire wall by the Cuban goverrnment.
I have a friend who will have to pay half a year of salary because he uploaded copyrighted material. Where I work you don't have a free ride on the internet either, and I'm legally banned from talking bad about the company I work for.
I thnk the world is like that. Information is noe free, be it in Cuba or in the US. In Cuba, the government controls information, and in the US, the corporations are. And I understand the reasons why Castro may have to control information. The Cuban propaganda machine is no match for the Hollywood propaganda industry.

It's kind of like Faust....Mephistopheles offers you whatever you desire, but at the expense of your very soul? I think not!....coincidentally, Castro looks like something created by Satan too >.>

Cuba's healthcare system is superior to the United States' system actually. For the size of their country, their medical technology is just about as advanced as ours. And they have a significantly higher percentage of doctors in the country than we do in ours. And they have more hospital beds per person than we do. Cuban medicine is so good, in fact, that many American and British medical students travel to Cuba to study medicine, then travel back to their home countries.

EDIT: You can hate Castro and denounce him for human rights violations, but there's no way you can denounce their healthcare.

Which can be traced back to the Soviet Union, which IIRC, has the highest rate of doctors to person ratios - but then again, the system may have been crappy, but they did plan their required staff well rather than letting it go to the wims of the marketplace.

It's kind of like Faust....Mephistopheles offers you whatever you desire, but at the expense of your very soul? I think not!....coincidentally, Castro looks like something created by Satan too >.>What? Castro an evil tempter? That's pretty stupid. And it's not like America still has a soul to sell. It's already gone to the Chinese, Vietnamese, Saddam...

First off, thanks for this thread. As one who is homeless because of the hurricane and the GROSSLY INADEQUATE FEDERAL RESPONSE, I am especially appreciative of all the thread started with regards to this calamity, whatever the views expressed.

Whatever President Castro or Chavez's motives, the virtual abandonment of my hometown of 27 years by federal authorities until untold numbers of people have died needlessly stands in stark contrast to what happened in the last hurricane to hit Cuba earlier this summer -- Hurricane Dennis. Havana suffered a direct hit from this Catagory 4 storm. Yet only four deaths were attributed to it; such is the state of both Cuba's civil defense structure and world-reknowned public health system.

We in Louisiana have been warming to the idea that Cuba and Venezula are NEIGHBORS. Our progressive governor has made a trip already to Cuba and has send state trade envoys to both countries. I'm sure we would be glad to have the help. Yes, there are geopolitical concerns here that make it improbable that the Bush Administration would accept such assistance. Yet the fact remains that just in the past year alone, the Bush administration cut 71 million dollars from previously-authorized hurricane protection projects to protect New Orleans. That money, like so much else in the USA, has gone to the blackhole of a war whose original purpose has long evaporated in Iraq.

It also needs to be noted that over half of Louisiana's, Mississippi's, and Alabama's national guard units are in Iraq now. Those guys who drove in those trucks the other day and were criticized by local officials for not jumping in to accomplish the needs at hand likely drove them in from other states -- for even more of the Louisiana's guard material is located in the sands of Iraq, not plying the floodwaters of New Orleans.

Indeed, Cuba could've been here quicker with a flotilla of refugees faster than the federal government has been. Republicans and Democrats alike in Louisiana agree wholesale that President Bush has failed us and his FEMA agency blew its chance to adequately respond in this our nation's first significant calamity since 9/11.

We could have learned (and still can) about Cuba's thoroughly-constructed civil defense system prior to the hurricane that could've prevented this awlful calamity. Scores of our municipal buses and streetcars lay underwater -- emergency managers could've filled them with thousands of people without private vehicles and fled the city(more than 100,000 in the city alone did not own cars; myself I was damn lucky to get mine out of the repair shop two days before the storm hit so I could successfully flee). The Louisiana Superdome should've been stocked to the gills with provisions and staffed to handle the 20,000 inside. Remember this is a sports arena that regularly saw crouds of 80,000. Yet especially the state and federal government dropped the ball bigtime on this preparation.

Yet when this calamity is thoroughly investigated I believe it will be revealed that once again this banana republic of America known as Louisiana was taken not only for granted -- it was grossly neglected, especially for such a locale known to provide 1/3 of America's oil and half of refining production; the country's largest port areas; and the nation's most bountiful fisheries outside of Alaska.

For example, there's that matter of the 17th Street Canal levee breech. Locals have long known that at that drainage canal's mouth a city street bridge was being "hurricane proofed" and widened. Attached to the southside of that bridge was a construction barge. It is quite likely that barge broke loose during the height of the hurricane and broke the levee in the canal. To be sure, there is a furious debate going on now (as the area still remains under ten feet of water so the culprit barge has yet to be located). But even after the storm, it took the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers more than three days to even begin trying to plug the breech. Meanwhile whole areas of the city, including the Central Business District, Charity Hospital and parts of Uptown, which were dry in the days after the storm, became flooded just a few days ago.

When questioned about this by reporters with the Baton Rouge television station WAFB-TV 9, the Corps said that they lacked the heavy-lift helicopters necessary to immediately focus on filling the breech After a furious outcry by me and other evacuated New Orleanians taking refuge in Baton Rouge, they have finally plugged the canal's mouth so as to allow no longer the waters of Lake Pontchartrain into the city (and at its height those floodwaters inside the city equaled the level on the lake itself).

Then there's the breech of the Industrial Canal levee that flooded the Lower Ninth Ward of New Orleans and the suburban parish of St.Bernard with up to twenty feet of water. Storm surge from the Mississippi River Gulf Outlet (MrGO) entered the canal as Hurricane Katrina headed for the region. It had no where else to go. At this point, I am furiously following up on reports that during the height of the storm the downriver levee of the Industrial Canal was dynamited in order to send floodwaters potentially away from the richer parts of New Orleans towards the nearly all African-American Lower Ninth Ward neighborhood as well as the mostly white but working-class St.Bernard Parish.

To be sure, we of the environmental community of New Orleans have long called for the closure and fill-in of the MrGO to staunch the flow of storm surge and reclaim once-vibrant wetlands that were destroyed by its early-1960s construction. Almost the very same thing happened during Hurricane Betsy in 1965 -- New Orleans' last direct hit by a major hurricane.

There's more to tell. Of course unfortunately I have so little time. Apologies for my lengthly post. Unfortunately, I have been to busy trying to located loved ones who I know fled and those I know who didn't -- as well as many friends and family that I pray and hope will not end up on a death list that surely will top "9/11" and may even rival the southeast Asia tsumani.

By all means thanks to the Cuban and Venezulan people and their leaders for offering to help. If our President enchews your offers now, maybe we in Louisiana can remember and will seek to strengthen trade ties as we rebuild. We will need your help. ANd afterall, we are Gulf of Mexico/Caribbean neighbors.

Those with the means to do so please make donations to the American Red Cross (the only outside agency that has been with us the entirety of this disaster):
http://www.redcross.org

Thanks for starting this thread and for your clamor to help the birthplace of jazz as well as my home.

Nolaerie
Pacific Defenders

Then why the fuck do our leaders insist on keeping a base there. There is the OLD reason and the NEW reason.

OLD reason: To humilliate Cuba.

NEW reason: To TORTURE POWs...and claim we are not braking US laws...cos its not happening on US soil.

Any help is welcome in my book. If it saves lives faster, who cares where the aid comes from? As long as you read the fine-print, that is. ;)

At least Castro has shown he has some humanity in him - the US should not reject this aid for political reasons (after all, did the Iranians after the Bam earthquake?) since the priority is to save lives and these Cuban doctors would be very effective at doing that

at least read the first page before posting :rolleyes:

the U.S doesn’t need help

I agree. But then, why are they calling the EU for help?

[Color=Blue]First off, thanks for this thread. As one who is homeless because of the hurricane and the GROSSLY INADEQUATE FEDERAL RESPONSE, I am especially appreciative of all the thread started with regards to this calamity, whatever the views expressed.

Disaster Relief and prepareness is the responsibility of the State and Local governments and not the Federal government.

Whatever President Castro or Chavez's motives, the virtual abandonment of my hometown of 27 years by federal authorities until untold numbers of people have died needlessly stands in stark contrast to what happened in the last hurricane to hit Cuba earlier this summer -- Hurricane Dennis. Havana suffered a direct hit from this Catagory 4 storm. Yet only four deaths were attributed to it; such is the state of both Cuba's civil defense structure and world-reknowned public health system.

Don't start comparing a totalitarian nation to a republic. If you care so much about your hometown, then you should also blame the Governor of LA as well as the Mayor of NO. They didn't plan anything for this. Bush had to force the evacuation.

We in Louisiana have been warming to the idea that Cuba and Venezula are NEIGHBORS. Our progressive governor has made a trip already to Cuba

Did he have the Federal Government's permission to do this?

and has send state trade envoys to both countries.

Your governor realizes that Cuba is under an embargo right? Trading with it is illegal.

I'm sure we would be glad to have the help. Yes, there are geopolitical concerns here that make it improbable that the Bush Administration would accept such assistance.

I do know that help is starting to get accepted but I don't know if he has accepted Cuba's offer yet.

Yet the fact remains that just in the past year alone, the Bush administration cut 71 million dollars from previously-authorized hurricane protection projects to protect New Orleans.

Congress passed that 71 million dollar cut without desent from any liberal in the United States Congress. If you want to blame someone, blame Congress because it was them that passed that cut. Also, why couldn't the State of LA done it? Why did it have to be a federal project? Disaster Preparedness is after all the State's responsibility.

That money, like so much else in the USA, has gone to the blackhole of a war whose original purpose has long evaporated in Iraq.

Wrong again!

It also needs to be noted that over half of Louisiana's, Mississippi's, and Alabama's national guard units are in Iraq now. Those guys who drove in those trucks the other day and were criticized by local officials for not jumping in to accomplish the needs at hand likely drove them in from other states -- for even more of the Louisiana's guard material is located in the sands of Iraq, not plying the floodwaters of New Orleans.

Incorrect. Infact, less than half of these three states are in Iraq. Why? Because the Pentagon has the brains to leave at least half of the National Guard forces in there home states just incase of a disaster. Around 30-35% of LA guard was in Iraq. This left 70% of said guard in LA!

Indeed, Cuba could've been here quicker with a flotilla of refugees faster than the federal government has been. Republicans and Democrats alike in Louisiana agree wholesale that President Bush has failed us and his FEMA agency blew its chance to adequately respond in this our nation's first significant calamity since 9/11.

More than one person is to blame for this disaster. Not just Bush. To place the blame soley on Bush is rather illogical.

We could have learned (and still can) about Cuba's thoroughly-constructed civil defense system prior to the hurricane that could've prevented this awlful calamity. Scores of our municipal buses and streetcars lay underwater -- emergency managers could've filled them with thousands of people without private vehicles and fled the city(more than 100,000 in the city alone did not own cars; myself I was damn lucky to get mine out of the repair shop two days before the storm hit so I could successfully flee).

Guess what? The bolded part is the responsibility of the local government. If you don't like the fact that they weren't use, don't blame the federal government. You blame the local government in this case.

The Louisiana Superdome should've been stocked to the gills with provisions and staffed to handle the 20,000 inside. Remember this is a sports arena that regularly saw crouds of 80,000. Yet especially the state and federal government dropped the ball bigtime on this preparation.

Once again, the blame falls to the City of New Orleans as well as to the Governor of LA. This is not something that is done at the federal level.

There's more to tell. Of course unfortunately I have so little time. Apologies for my lengthly post. Unfortunately, I have been to busy trying to located loved ones who I know fled and those I know who didn't -- as well as many friends and family that I pray and hope will not end up on a death list that surely will top "9/11" and may even rival the southeast Asia tsumani.

I wish you luck in finding your loved ones. I pray for the safety.

By all means thanks to the Cuban and Venezulan people and their leaders for offering to help. If our President enchews your offers now, maybe we in Louisiana can remember and will seek to strengthen trade ties as we rebuild. We will need your help. ANd afterall, we are Gulf of Mexico/Caribbean neighbors.

Since you cant trade with Cuba at the moment because it is illegal. Now maybe we should place the LA Governor under investigation for violating the US Trade Embargo that is still in place.