NationStates Jolt Archive

I cannot be the ONLY one thats tired of people using the "race card" when something doesn't go their way. The latest example of this, is the diaster of Katrina. People are actually complaning that because New Orleans majority population is black that its the reason the rescue effort has been so slow. Hell even one entertainer on a fundraiser for the Katrina disaster called Bush a racist. STOP IT, STOP IT, STOP IT, STOP IT! Why don't you take that stupid head out of your ass and realize that there are REASONS BESIDE RACE that the rescue efforts are slow.

1. The Governor of LA and the Mayor of NO did not have a plan in place. This was evidence when they tried to evacuate a large city in 2 DAYS!

2. No Bus, The governor of LA and the Mayor of NO could've used the Bus. The Bus drivers are governmental employees, so the could've driven the Bus. Hell even truckers could drive the Bus. Hell even an 18 year old boy figured out how to drive a Bus from NO to TEXAS! USE THE (censored) BUS!

3. Shooting and looting. Maybe if these IDIOTS would just stop SHOOTING at the people that are TRYING to help them, things would be a lot smoother. Also, while I may have no problem with stealing of medical supplies, food or water. But since when do you need a new Plasma TV? Hell even one woman lost her kids because she wanted to get some da da dAAAAA new expensive dresses! I think she deserves mother of the freakin year!

4. No National Guards. The National Guard is under STATE control. While a certain portion of the NG can be called to National duty. The National government isn't stupid to take away the entire guard. the Governor of LA had 8,000 National Guardsmen at her service. Did she call on them, NOPE! See, there are certain people who are first responders. They are the NG, Police, fire department, and of course medical personal. WHERE ARE THOSE PEOPLE!??

So as you can see, Not everything is about Race. In fact, please burn the race card. This is not 19 freakin 60! I swear if the Race Card was an actual card, the next time I see it being used, I would shove it right up the person's ass. You know, sometimes, when you don't get what you want. Most of the time, its probably something OTHER than the color of your skin. In fact, the people using the race card are the one that are hurting their race. Heres an idea, stop concetrating so much on the color of your skin, but more on whats inside of the person.

I cannot be the ONLY one thats tired of people using the "race card" when something doesn't go their way. The latest example of this, is the diaster of Katrina. People are actually complaning that because New Orleans majority population is black that its the reason the rescue effort has been so slow. Hell even one entertainer on a fundraiser for the Katrina disaster called Bush a racist. STOP IT, STOP IT, STOP IT, STOP IT! Why don't you take that stupid head out of your ass and realize that there are REASONS BESIDE RACE that the rescue efforts are slow.

1. The Governor of LA and the Mayor of NO did not have a plan in place. This was evidence when they tried to evacuate a large city in 2 DAYS!

2. No Bus, The governor of LA and the Mayor of NO could've used the Bus. The Bus drivers are governmental employees, so the could've driven the Bus. Hell even truckers could drive the Bus. Hell even an 18 year old boy figured out how to drive a Bus from NO to TEXAS! USE THE (censored) BUS!

3. Shooting and looting. Maybe if these IDIOTS would just stop SHOOTING at the people that are TRYING to help them, things would be a lot smoother. Also, while I may have no problem with stealing of medical supplies, food or water. But since when do you need a new Plasma TV? Hell even one woman lost her kids because she wanted to get some da da dAAAAA new expensive dresses! I think she deserves mother of the freakin year!

4. No National Guards. The National Guard is under STATE control. While a certain portion of the NG can be called to National duty. The National government isn't stupid to take away the entire guard. the Governor of LA had 8,000 National Guardsmen at her service. Did she call on them, NOPE! See, there are certain people who are first responders. They are the NG, Police, fire department, and of course medical personal. WHERE ARE THOSE PEOPLE!??

So as you can see, Not everything is about Race. In fact, please burn the race card. This is not 19 freakin 60! I swear if the Race Card was an actual card, the next time I see it being used, I would shove it right up the person's ass. You know, sometimes, when you don't get what you want. Most of the time, its probably something OTHER than the color of your skin. In fact, the people using the race card are the one that are hurting their race. Heres an idea, stop concetrating so much on the color of your skin, but more on whats inside of the person.

You should try living in Britain, the race card is played so often that I believe casino's ought to interdict its use. If an unqualified ethnic individual is denied a job in place of a more suitable caucasian, he will almost always sue for racial discrimination. If I was a pm, racism wouldn't be illegal, let alone punishable by law.

i think that in a perverse way it makes people feel better to think that it is racism rather than a disaster so big that the various governments were unprepared for it and unable to cope no matter what the planning could have been.

its easier to blame it on the black people of new orleans (if they werent so lazy/criminal/stupid they would have gotten out) or the lack of concern by the government (if we were white they would have gotten us all out) than it is to accept that sometimes nature is more viscious than any government can easily handle.

You should try living in Britain, the race card is played so often that I believe casino's ought to interdict its use. If an unqualified ethnic individual is denied a job in place of a more suitable caucasian, he will almost always sue for racial discrimination. If I was a pm, racism wouldn't be illegal, let alone punishable by law.

Yeah! Then we can show those cornershop pakis whos boss! :rolleyes: Seriously, get a grip. Britain isnt a racist country and it never will be. It's the idiots and the scum like you and the BNP that ruin it, not immigrants.

Either way, I agree. I don't see how race has anything to do with the relief effort (or lack of it).

You should try living in Britain, the race card is played so often that I believe casino's ought to interdict its use. If an unqualified ethnic individual is denied a job in place of a more suitable caucasian, he will almost always sue for racial discrimination. If I was a pm, racism wouldn't be illegal, let alone punishable by law.


I agree, when the conservative party dared speak about the level of failed asylum seakers just allowed to disapeer into britain, and the fact we need guards at sea ports to stop people entering the coutnry illegally, all labour could do was THERE PlAYING THE RACE CARD!!!!!

And i can back up his claim of underqualified minorities simply sueing because they can. The compensation culture is terrible now , if you trip over a stone you can sue someone.

Yeah! Then we can show those cornershop pakis whos boss! :rolleyes: Seriously, get a grip. Britain isnt a racist country and it never will be. It's the idiots and the scum like you and the BNP that ruin it, not immigrants.

Either way, I agree. I don't see how race has anything to do with the relief effort (or lack of it).

haha, you need to get a grip , he just explained his opinion and you attack him. Wak up grudgy today? ;)

Britian not a racist country? my word, you obviously dont get out much then huh? or do you just see whats on TV and in learning institutions and take that as brtian as a whole? and, no, he's not BNP, like me he's a tory. A slight difference if youd bother to study it.

If I was President Affirmative Action would go down the toilet, and in its place. A law that states that you cannot hire a person based on color, sex, religion, disability, or any outwardly physical apperarnce. You must hire them based on their credentials.

I agree, when the conservative party dared speak about the level of failed asylum seakers just allowed to disapeer into britain, and the fact we need guards at sea ports to stop people entering the coutnry illegally, all labour could do was THERE PlAYING THE RACE CARD!!!!!

And i can back up his claim of underqualified minorities simply sueing because they can. The compensation culture is terrible now , if you trip over a stone you can sue someone.

Quite, its utterly ridiculous. I am convinced that race only remains an issue in Britain because the current regime political correctness affords it the status of an unforgiveable sin.

Introducing, the all-new Race Card! (TM)

Play it anywhere! On the road! In the office! Even when out on the town!

That's right, you too can get a room in that exclusive four-star hotel, simply by presenting your Race Card at Reception!

Introducing the all-new Race Card! Sign up for yours today!

:rolleyes:

God damn, I've FINALLY found people who are willing to talk some sense. I live in fucking Arcata, which is hippie capital of the world (well...it sure feels like it)...it's out of control. I can't even go outside, cuase the first thing I hear will be something like "my teacher gave me a D on my test cause I'm black" or "gas is so high becuase of the republicans that live here, they have an Aura of Shitty Gas Prices" and then I'll have to stab someone in the face.

A friend of mine actually said to me once "you can't be racist against white people, it's impossible". And I beleive his reason was "cuase they deserve it. white people suck"

I wonder why a bunch of black people in the South might think racism has something to do with it....

Yeah! Then we can show those cornershop pakis whos boss! :rolleyes: Seriously, get a grip. Britain isnt a racist country and it never will be. It's the idiots and the scum like you and the BNP that ruin it, not immigrants.

Either way, I agree. I don't see how race has anything to do with the relief effort (or lack of it).

My previou sentiments are drawn from precedants and rational rumination, not inherent racism. It is individuals such as yourself, who I will incidentally bet would vote labour, whom we can blame for the political correctness tht permeates and degrades British culture. One cannot legislate morality, nor for the benefit of the few over the many, labour ought to learn that.

I wonder why a bunch of black people in the South might think racism has something to do with it....

You do realize that slavery was over 400 years ago. And the Civil Rights movement was 30 years ago. You know the black men and women that are now old and who were in the movement never play the race card. They just work hard as anyone else, and they know that not everything is about race. Its the yonger crowd thats using the race card.

God damn, I've FINALLY found people who are willing to talk some sense. I live in fucking Arcata, which is hippie capital of the world (well...it sure feels like it)...it's out of control. I can't even go outside, cuase the first thing I hear will be something like "my teacher gave me a D on my test cause I'm black" or "gas is so high becuase of the republicans that live here, they have an Aura of Shitty Gas Prices" and then I'll have to stab someone in the face.

A friend of mine actually said to me once "you can't be racist against white people, it's impossible". And I beleive his reason was "cuase they deserve it. white people suck"

It is possible to be racist against white people. My dad went into a barber shop on a trip, and he was all nice and everything. He asked for a haircut and the barber (black) told him that he doesn't cut white (well cracker) hair. Now if thats not racisim, I dunno what is.

You do realize that slavery was over 400 years ago. And the Civil Rights movement was 30 years ago. You know the black men and women that are now old and who were in the movement never play the race card. They just work hard as anyone else, and they know that not everything is about race. Its the yonger crowd thats using the race card.

And I'm sure in those thirty years that all the old white racist people have died and have been replaced by kind, gentle people who have no animosity towards blacks whatsoever.

A friend of mine actually said to me once "you can't be racist against white people, it's impossible". And I beleive his reason was "cuase they deserve it. white people suck"

Was he black?

Was he black?

See this is exactly what I am talking about. You see a racist statement, and your first question is, Was he black. I'm betting on two things here.

1. If he is black, then hes justified because of the opression that his black ancestors has suffered.

2. If hes not black, then he is a credit to his race because he sees the "evil" of the white race.

See this is what I am talking about. A normal person would ask, "How did he manage to pull that out of his ass?" But someone who is a whiney little Poltically Correct wuss, would ask "Was he black?"

Thank you for proving my point Sdaeriji.

See this is exactly what I am talking about. You see a racist statement, and your first question is, Was he black. I'm betting on two things here.

1. If he is black, then hes justified because of the opression that his black ancestors has suffered.

2. If hes not black, then he is a credit to his race because he sees the "evil" of the white race.

See this is what I am talking about. A normal person would ask, "How did he manage to pull that out of his ass?" But someone who is a whiney little Poltically Correct wuss, would ask "Was he black?"

Thank you for proving my point Sdaeriji.

Ah, so you can read my mind now. Good for you. I bet you can guess what I'm thinking right now, too.

I do enjoy the flame, as well. Thank you.

It was a perfectly normal question to ask..

"haha, you need to get a grip , he just explained his opinion and you attack him. Wak up grudgy today? "

Yeah alright, he "explained" his opinion. You are a fucking dumbass. That is my opinion. Wait, that's a flame and an insult right? So maybe it was an INSULT to ME when he said it should be legal and not against the law for someone to say, deny me the offer of a job because I am not fully British (while I'm a British citizen, I'm was born in Borneo and my father is a Sabahan and you can tell I'm from somewhere in Asia)? I take that, as a patriot, a person who loves his country and it's history and it's culture and it's people, as a personal insult. In fact, it's not just an insult to me, it's an insult to every British citizen, it's an insult to those who fought in the Falklands, World War One and Two, in the Napoleonic Wars, to Britons throughout the ages who fought for their country and their way of life, whether white, black, or asian.

Meet my friends, Screw, and You.

You know its true. YOu know that the first question that would come out of a normal person mouth would not be "Was he black?" But more or less "How did he pull that out of his ass?"

See this is exactly what I am talking about. You see a racist statement, and your first question is, Was he black. I'm betting on two things here.

1. If he is black, then hes justified because of the opression that his black ancestors has suffered.

2. If hes not black, then he is a credit to his race because he sees the "evil" of the white race.

See this is what I am talking about. A normal person would ask, "How did he manage to pull that out of his ass?" But someone who is a whiney little Poltically Correct wuss, would ask "Was he black?".

I was wondering the same thing, but I don't think that. All it does is clarify the situation better. If you seriously believe that you can't be racist towards white people (or any race, for that matter) you are either:

1. Racist yourself
2. Totally ignorant of the way racism works

Anyone who does not believe that all races have their share of racists in them are quite likely bigoted themselves, or at least uninformed of the truth.

Don't want to get involved in this conversation. I might get banned, but for those who talk shit and have never experienced discrimination, your opinions aren't valid to me.

You know its true. YOu know that the first question that would come out of a normal person mouth would not be "Was he black?" But more or less "How did he pull that out of his ass?"

The first thing that came to my mind was "Is this a white person who thinks that white people suck? Is he one of those people who thinks that all white people are responsible for the suffering of all black people?" But you go ahead and assume whatever you want about me, champ.

Don't want to get involved in this conversation. I might get banned, but for those who talk shit and have never experienced discrimination, your opinions aren't valid to me.
Damn well said.

The first thing that came to my mind was "Is this a white person who thinks that white people suck? Is he one of those people who thinks that all white people are responsible for the suffering of all black people?" But you go ahead and assume whatever you want about me, champ.

Same with me, and I'm pretty sure I'm not a "PC wuss". I just like to know who said it before I make a statement.

Same with me, and I'm pretty sure I'm not a "PC wuss". I just like to know who said it before I make a statement.

Apparently you are, and so am I.

Damn well said.

Why thank you. I just get tired of people having an opinion on something they know absoloutely nothing about. Being a person of color I have experienced it all my life, BLATANTLY and out there in my face. If someone were to tell me those situations weren't ones that involved race they would have to be either blind or deaf to not notice. Just for all these people who have no clue, the next time someone calls me a derogitory word (******, half-breed, mutt, etc) I'll assume it's not a racial matter and go about my day.

Yeah! Then we can show those cornershop pakis whos boss! :rolleyes: Seriously, get a grip. Britain isnt a racist country and it never will be. It's the idiots and the scum like you and the BNP that ruin it, not immigrants.



Hog for PM.

But i think that some of the shooting that are now taking place, may ahve to do with racism , and some people are taking advantage of the situation to bump off some neighbours they never liked anyway

See, all the Race Card does is cry wolf. Thats all it does. The only time people use the race card is when its going to benefit themselves the most. Its not because there actually was racisim going on, but they like the guy who thinks white people suck, are pulling stuff out of their asses. What will happen if the race card contiune is that people will soon get tired of the race card, and when real racisim happen and they fly it. No one will bother to look at it, or care about it. The Race Card does not curb racisim, it most likely promotes it.

You do realize that slavery was over 400 years ago. And the Civil Rights movement was 30 years ago. You know the black men and women that are now old and who were in the movement never play the race card. They just work hard as anyone else, and they know that not everything is about race. Its the yonger crowd thats using the race card.


Slavery wasn't over 400 years ago. It ended in 1864. That would be approximately 150 years ago. Still long enough that people today shouldn't really be able to complain about it and expect something to be done to favor them.

I am white, my family came over from England when they got kidnapped in the early 1800's and forced to be indentured servants for 40 years to work their freedom off. I don't think I have ever heard anyone in my family complain about this. In fact we look at this like it's a good thing because we are now in America.

Why thank you. I just get tired of people having an opinion on something they know absoloutely nothing about. Being a person of color I have experienced it all my life, BLATANTLY and out there in my face. If someone were to tell me those situations weren't ones that involved race they would have to be either blind or deaf to not notice. Just for all these people who have no clue, the next time someone calls me a derogitory word (******, half-breed, mutt, etc) I'll assume it's not a racial matter and go about my day.

Look I'm not talking about real racisim. Real racisim should be delt with and no one should be allowed to call you a derogitory term. But the problem I am seeing is that people are now using this to their advantages. Instead of reporting actual racisim, they just report fake one to get what they want.

I cannot be the ONLY one thats tired of people using the "race card" when something doesn't go their way. The latest example of this, is the diaster of Katrina. People are actually complaning that because New Orleans majority population is black that its the reason the rescue effort has been so slow. Hell even one entertainer on a fundraiser for the Katrina disaster called Bush a racist. STOP IT, STOP IT, STOP IT, STOP IT! Why don't you take that stupid head out of your ass and realize that there are REASONS BESIDE RACE that the rescue efforts are slow.

1. The Governor of LA and the Mayor of NO did not have a plan in place. This was evidence when they tried to evacuate a large city in 2 DAYS!

2. No Bus, The governor of LA and the Mayor of NO could've used the Bus. The Bus drivers are governmental employees, so the could've driven the Bus. Hell even truckers could drive the Bus. Hell even an 18 year old boy figured out how to drive a Bus from NO to TEXAS! USE THE (censored) BUS!

3. Shooting and looting. Maybe if these IDIOTS would just stop SHOOTING at the people that are TRYING to help them, things would be a lot smoother. Also, while I may have no problem with stealing of medical supplies, food or water. But since when do you need a new Plasma TV? Hell even one woman lost her kids because she wanted to get some da da dAAAAA new expensive dresses! I think she deserves mother of the freakin year!

4. No National Guards. The National Guard is under STATE control. While a certain portion of the NG can be called to National duty. The National government isn't stupid to take away the entire guard. the Governor of LA had 8,000 National Guardsmen at her service. Did she call on them, NOPE! See, there are certain people who are first responders. They are the NG, Police, fire department, and of course medical personal. WHERE ARE THOSE PEOPLE!??

So as you can see, Not everything is about Race. In fact, please burn the race card. This is not 19 freakin 60! I swear if the Race Card was an actual card, the next time I see it being used, I would shove it right up the person's ass. You know, sometimes, when you don't get what you want. Most of the time, its probably something OTHER than the color of your skin. In fact, the people using the race card are the one that are hurting their race. Heres an idea, stop concetrating so much on the color of your skin, but more on whats inside of the person.

As the official nationstates White guy, I can say two cheers for my pasty friend here!

I mean these Negros are getting a little uppity. They were slaves, but they asked nicely so we let them go. But ohhh nooo, that's not enough. Then they want to be able to vote, or to go to a nice public school, or *gasp* date my white daughter! But being the nice, loving white people we are, we said okay y'all, enjoy. But noooo, now they're all uppity, complaining about "they left us here to die!," and "where's our food, we're starving!, and "hey, how come in a city with both white and black people, almost all those left behind are black!" Sheesh. We try to be nice, but it's always something with these darned negroes. Next thing you know they'll be asking why, in a country with a majority white population, the vast majority of all prisoners are black.

What's your average white guy to do?

Slavery wasn't over 400 years ago. It ended in 1864. That would be approximately 150 years ago. Still long enough that people today shouldn't really be able to complain about it and expect something to be done to favor them.

I am white, my family came over from England when they got kidnapped in the early 1800's and forced to be indentured servants for 40 years to work their freedom off. I don't think I have ever heard anyone in my family complain about this. In fact we look at this like it's a good thing because we are now in America.

I wish more people would adopt this point of view. My family came here from Germany in the early 1900's to escape the Kaiser.

Look I'm not talking about real racisim. Real racisim should be delt with and no one should be allowed to call you a derogitory term. But the problem I am seeing is that people are now using this to their advantages. Instead of reporting actual racisim, they just report fake one to get what they want.

Whenever I experience true racism, I'm talking about the kind that prevents me from having the same benefits as everybody else, I don't report it because if I do people will state the same shit as what is contained in this thread. I get accused of using the "race card" when REAL situations have occured, so why even bother reporting? Just like every group of people, there's some bad apples, but you can't accuse an ENTIRE group of people of being evil with some kind of hideously evil plan out to get all white people. Calm the fuck down, sheesh.

I wish more people would adopt this point of view. My family came here from Germany in the early 1900's to escape the Kaiser.

My great-grandfather came here in the 1920s to escape Mussolini's Italy. I don't think I owe a single black person anything (except my friend Jason, who I currently owe $5).

As the official nationstates White guy, I can say two cheers for my pasty friend here!

I mean these Negros are getting a little uppity. They were slaves, but they asked nicely so we let them go. But ohhh nooo, that's not enough. Then they want to be able to vote, or to go to a nice public school, or *gasp* date my white daughter! But being the nice, loving white people we are, we said okay y'all, enjoy. But noooo, now they're all uppity, complaining about "they left us here to die!," and "where's our food, we're starving!, and "hey, how come in a city with both white and black people, almost all those left behind are black!" Sheesh. We try to be nice, but it's always something with these darned negroes. Next thing you know they'll be asking why, in a country with a majority white population, the vast majority of all prisoners are black.

What's your average white guy to do?


can we fire him and get a better whiteguy?

As the official nationstates White guy, I can say two cheers for my pasty friend here!

I mean these Negros are getting a little uppity. They were slaves, but they asked nicely so we let them go. But ohhh nooo, that's not enough. Then they want to be able to vote, or to go to a nice public school, or *gasp* date my white daughter! But being the nice, loving white people we are, we said okay y'all, enjoy. But noooo, now they're all uppity, complaining about "they left us here to die!," and "where's our food, we're starving!, and "hey, how come in a city with both white and black people, almost all those left behind are black!" Sheesh. We try to be nice, but it's always something with these darned negroes. Next thing you know they'll be asking why, in a country with a majority white population, the vast majority of all prisoners are black.

What's your average white guy to do?


You are the kind that my rant was aimed towards. First off, they were TRYING to get food and water to those people. But what ended up happening was that dumbasses were stealing AK's and shooting at the very same people that was trying to give them food and water! Also, LA and NO dropped the ball on this, they didn't prepare. They could've at least used the bus to get those poor people out and into shelters. Also the blacks were not "left behind". It wasn't like all of the whites got onto a bus and decide to not let any black on. The people who actually did get out were smart enough to see that it wasn't going to be pretty. Now I actually met some black and white that got out of NO. So see, some blacks did get out.

Why are the vast majority of prison people black? Hmmm, maybe it has something to do with the CRIMES that they committed. Every once in a while they would imprison the wrong people, but that does not happen very often.

We really should stop making up excuses for the people who misbehave and break the law. If they break the law, then they should be punished, regardless of race.

My great-grandfather came here in the 1920s to escape Mussolini's Italy. I don't think I owe a single black person anything (except my friend Jason, who I currently owe $5).

As a black person I can honestly say that is damn right, I expect nor want anything from any white person except maybe respect.

1. The Governor of LA and the Mayor of NO did not have a plan in place. This was evidence when they tried to evacuate a large city in 2 DAYS!
At best, they had 3 days. You can go apply your massive brain skills to hurricane tracking if you think you can do better.


2. No Bus, The governor of LA and the Mayor of NO could've used the Bus. The Bus drivers are governmental employees, so the could've driven the Bus. Hell even truckers could drive the Bus. Hell even an 18 year old boy figured out how to drive a Bus from NO to TEXAS! USE THE (censored) BUS!
The Bus with a capital B? Did I miss something? Is there some super bus in new orleans that can fit 10,000 people in it?


3. Shooting and looting. Maybe if these IDIOTS would just stop SHOOTING at the people that are TRYING to help them, things would be a lot smoother.
Crazy people without medication do crazy ass shit.

4. No National Guards. The National Guard is under STATE control. While a certain portion of the NG can be called to National duty. The National government isn't stupid to take away the entire guard. the Governor of LA had 8,000 National Guardsmen at her service. Did she call on them, NOPE! See, there are certain people who are first responders. They are the NG, Police, fire department, and of course medical personal. WHERE ARE THOSE PEOPLE!??
Better yet is what the the fuck is the AP doing? Standing around taking pictures and interviewing looters? Why don't they throw a few people in the back of their news van and take them out with them.


http://img342.imageshack.us/img342/632/racecard5nm.th.jpg (http://img342.imageshack.us/my.php?image=racecard5nm.jpg)

Whenever I experience true racism, I'm talking about the kind that prevents me from having the same benefits as everybody else, I don't report it because if I do people will state the same shit as what is contained in this thread. I get accused of using the "race card" when REAL situations have occured, so why even bother reporting? Just like every group of people, there's some bad apples, but you can't accuse an ENTIRE group of people of being evil with some kind of hideously evil plan out to get all white people. Calm the fuck down, sheesh.

But comon, can you really expect to take a guy who says "White people suck" or "My teacher gave me a D because I'm black." seriously?

But comon, can you really expect to take a guy who says "White people suck" or "My teacher gave me a D because I'm black." seriously?

While I don't doubt that that a teacher would give a person a bad grade based on race these days, a person who claims that is most likely making an excuse, but that doesn't mean it can't possibly ever occur. Anybody who says "*insert entire group of people here* suck!" is a dumbass in my book.

can we fire him and get a better whiteguy?

Nope. You see, among my peoples, high offices are granted based on how white one's skin is. I have the whitest skin in my entire group, thus I was granted the title of Official White Guy.

It came down to me and Michael Jackson, but the Sherman-Williams paint chart showed me as a Pearl White, where as it showed Michael Jackson as Creepy Plasticsurgery induced White. Therefore I win.

But comon, can you really expect to take a guy who says "White people suck" or "My teacher gave me a D because I'm black." seriously?

The first one, no. That's just racism.

The second one depends on the person. If I know them, and know they do and did the work correctly, I would tend to believe them. Especially if it's a subjective grade, because that's the teacher's decision. There are racist teachers, but they aren't obvious with it.

At best, they had 3 days. You can go apply your massive brain skills to hurricane tracking if you think you can do better.

Dude, they knew for 7 days or MORE that this Hurricane was coming. I mean comon, when you got a Cat 5 storm heading STRAIGHT to your town, don't you think its time for your citizen to haul ass?


The Bus with a capital B? Did I miss something? Is there some super buss in new orleans that can fit 10,000 people in it?

Your average bus can hold 50 people. 200-300 school buses and a few city buses were left behind. They could've used THAT!


Crazy people without medication do crazy ass shit.

But what if they wern't on medications? See, STOP MAKING EXCUSES! If they shot at a National Guardsmen, then the National Guardsmen have the right to shoot him back!


Better yet is what the the fuck is the AP doing? Standing around taking pictures and interviewing looters? Why don't they throw a few people in the back of their news van and take them out with them.

I'll let my friend Foamey the squirrel handle this.

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/262703

While I don't doubt that that a teacher would give a person a bad grade based on race these days, a person who claims that is most likely making an excuse, but that doesn't mean it can't possibly ever occur. Anybody who says "*insert entire group of people here* suck!" is a dumbass in my book.

While I agree that it can happen, but lets be honest here. How often does it happen? I mean I bet you $5 that the report of racisim is higher than the list of actual racisim taking place.

Dude, they knew for 7 days or MORE that this Hurricane was coming. I mean comon, when you got a Cat 5 storm heading STRAIGHT to your town, don't you think its time for your citizen to haul ass?

It wasn't a Category 5 storm for seven days. It only gained strength once it passed over the Gulf of Mexico. And it originally was heading towards Mississippi and Alabama, not New Orleans.

Don't want to get involved in this conversation. I might get banned, but for those who talk shit and have never experienced discrimination, your opinions aren't valid to me.

You mean verbal, direct discrimination, don't you? Because everyone knows it's not real discrimination when Guy 1, whose credentials are not up to par with Guy 2, gets a job because the company has a diversity quota to meet. It's only discrimination when the victim is a minority and the person discriminating does so to the victim's face.

While I agree that it can happen, but lets be honest here. How often does it happen? I mean I bet you $5 that the report of racisim is higher than the list of actual racisim taking place. I have no doubt that is the truth, but whenever you disreguard something as a whole, truths slip through and no justice is dispensed.

It wasn't a Category 5 storm for seven days. It only gained strength once it passed over the Gulf of Mexico. And it originally was heading towards Mississippi and Alabama, not New Orleans.

It was a Catgeory 1 at first! This only happened because it didn't stay over florida anywhere near as long as expected.

I have no doubt that is the truth, but whenever you disreguard something as a whole, truths slip through and no justice is dispensed.

I agree, and don't misunderstand me. I'm not blaming the whole black race. I'm just pissed because the people who use racisim for their own personal adgenda, and who report racisim when in fact no racisim has taken place, are allowed to do this. That is who I am talking about when I talk about people who use the race card.

Dude, they knew for 7 days or MORE that this Hurricane was coming. I mean comon, when you got a Cat 5 storm heading STRAIGHT to your town, don't you think its time for your citizen to haul ass?
Tracking beyond 3 days is not accurate. Watch 5-day hurricane prediction maps on noaa.gov, see how accurate they are. Plus when it hit Florida it was Category 1, it did not turn into a Category 5 until 24 hours before hitting New Orleans.




Your average bus can hold 50 people. 200-300 school buses and a few city buses were left behind. They could've used THAT!
But are those the Bus? The big super bus that is so awesome it requires its first letter capitalized.




But what if they wern't on medications? See, STOP MAKING EXCUSES! If they shot at a National Guardsmen, then the National Guardsmen have the right to shoot him back!
What if they are? I can make up stuff if you can to. You get people who should be (read: are on but can't get any) on medication (alot of America), and give them guns. What do you think they will do? It isn't try to eat them.

You mean verbal, direct discrimination, don't you? Because everyone knows it's not real discrimination when Guy 1, whose credentials are not up to par with Guy 2, gets a job because the company has a diversity quota to meet. It's only discrimination when the victim is a minority and the person discriminating does so to the victim's face.

The exact same things happens but in reverse. An African American person could have superior skills than their fellow light skinned citizens, but just because their name is Tyrone or Shaneequa (I have no clue why people name their children something like Shaneequa anyways) they lose the job. I have seen this happen with my father and my brother, and I have been lucky enough not to have a "black sounding name".

Yes, discrimination can happen from all sides and it shouldn't, but me being dark skinned am more likely to face more bullshit than a white person during my lifetime, as racism hasn't magically dissappeared. Once racism is TOTALLY gone only then will everyone be happy because there won't be anything to complain about.

I agree, and don't misunderstand me. I'm not blaming the whole black race. I'm just pissed because the people who use racisim for their own personal adgenda, and who report racisim when in fact no racisim has taken place, are allowed to do this. That is who I am talking about when I talk about people who use the race card.

Those people piss me off too because they're misrepresenting me. I'm not every black person, we're all different. We aren't some collective Borg-like entity that coordinates our actions just to piss white people off. Some people just haven't gotten this through their thick, dumbass, racist heads yet.

It wasn't a Category 5 storm for seven days. It only gained strength once it passed over the Gulf of Mexico. And it originally was heading towards Mississippi and Alabama, not New Orleans.

Exactly, it showed it going to Mississippi, and what state is next to Mississippi, why its Louisana! Once again excuses are made. Look at the fact here, New Orelans is under sea level. How hard do you think it would actually be for a storm to flood this entire city? These city officals know that NO is under the sea level. So with that knowledge, you'd think they would've at least have a plan on what to do in case a storm did come their way. Which they obivously did not.

The exact same things happens but in reverse. An African American person could have superior skills than their fellow light skinned citizens, but just because their name is Tyrone or Shaneequa (I have no clue why people name their children something like Shaneequa anyways) they lose the job. I have seen this happen with my father and my brother, and I have been lucky enough not to have a "black sounding name".
Yes sadly, many black families are suffering from a hereditary disease. This disease affects the baby naming portion of the brain and causes them to name their children strange and just plain odd names. This is not solely an African American disease but is only hereditary among African Americans. White people, especially celebrities, often develop the disease.

These city officals know that NO is under the sea level. So with that knowledge, you'd think they would've at least have a plan on what to do in case a storm did come their way. Which they obivously did not.
I assume you have paper copies of what they knew and didn't know. I honestly knew they knew that the levees would withstand direct hits from Category 3 hurricanes. That does not mean hurricanes floating into Mississippi casually hitting them, that means hurricane train wreck straight into them.

How hard do you think it would actually be for a storm to flood this entire city?
Well it seems to be doing just fine after the past decade of hurricanes passing dangerously close to it.

Those people piss me off too because they're misrepresenting me. I'm not every black person, we're all different. We aren't some collective Borg-like entity that coordinates our actions just to piss white people off. Some people just haven't gotten this through their thick, dumbass, racist heads yet.

Glad to see we're seeing eye to eye on this now. :)

Yes sadly, many black families are suffering from a hereditary disease. This disease affects the baby naming portion of the brain and causes them to name their children strange and just plain odd names. This is not solely an African American disease but is only hereditary among African Americans. White people, especially celebrities, often develop the disease.

haha actually I think it's because of African stereotypes. I have cousins who named their children those type of names because they sounded "African". It's rediculous.

We aren't some collective Borg-like entity that coordinates our actions just to piss white people off. Some people just haven't gotten this through their thick, dumbass, racist heads yet.

You're not? Funny, that's not what my manual says.

I have research to do!

To the white-mobile!
nanananananananana!

Glad to see we're seeing eye to eye on this now. :)

Yes indeed. :D

You do realize that slavery was over 400 years ago.

Not true. In the US, slavery didn't really end until after the Civil War, which was in 1865. That's only....140 years ago.

I don't necessarily think that the slow reaction time was racist, but I am glad Kanye West said something about it, because Bush's reaction was horribly slow and still not much is being done. It's pathetic. It's been 5 days now, and theres people still stranded in New Orleans! I will be so happy in 2008 when he is out of office.

Tracking beyond 3 days is not accurate. Watch 5-day hurricane prediction maps on noaa.gov, see how accurate they are. Plus when it hit Florida it was Category 1, it did not turn into a Category 5 until 24 hours before hitting New Orleans.

Regardless, they should've at least start preparing, just in case. Hell I live in Charlotte, North Carolina. Everytime we think we're about to be hit with a storm we go into advisory mode. People start making plans, buying stuff etc. The city officals start reviewing their plans etc. This did not happen in NO.

But are those the Bus? The big super bus that is so awesome it requires its first letter capitalized.

huh?

What if they are? I can make up stuff if you can to. You get people who should be (read: are on but can't get any) on medication (alot of America), and give them guns. What do you think they will do? It isn't try to eat them.

Look, they don't know if their on medications or not. But would you really let a guy shoot at you when your trying to help him? I mean comon, if your just going to let a guy shoot at you because you might think hes on medication, then you deserve to be shot at. Its called self defense! When someone is threatening your life, regardless of their state of mind, you have to defend yourself. You still haven't answeared my question on what if they aren't on medications.

Not true. In the US, slavery didn't really end until after the Civil War, which was in 1865. That's only....140 years ago.

I don't necessarily think that the slow reaction time was racist, but I am glad Kanye West said something about it, because Bush's reaction was horribly slow and still not much is being done. It's pathetic. It's been 5 days now, and theres people still stranded in New Orleans! I will be so happy in 2008 when he is out of office.

Jeez, did you NOT read my post about the governor of LA or the mayor of NO?

Actually isn't the concept of racism a bit outdated...seeing as how now most anthropologists believe that "races" do not exist?

The exact same things happens but in reverse. An African American person could have superior skills than their fellow light skinned citizens, but just because their name is Tyrone or Shaneequa (I have no clue why people name their children something like Shaneequa anyways) they lose the job. I have seen this happen with my father and my brother, and I have been lucky enough not to have a "black sounding name".

My point was that more people than you seem to think have experienced discrimination, either directly, as with your father and brother, assuming that was actually the reason they did not get the job, or indirectly through shit like affirmative action and diversity quotas.

Yes, discrimination can happen from all sides and it shouldn't, but me being dark skinned am more likely to face more bullshit than a white person during my lifetime, as racism hasn't magically dissappeared. Once racism is TOTALLY gone only then will everyone be happy because there won't be anything to complain about.

Exactly. You're right here, which is why your statement was a callous one to make. Why do you go on, because what follows is just bullshit. Yes, you may face more direct and angry racism, but that is only from bigots that have little to no authority. Whites, on the other hand, face racism that the law actually requires them to face. They see just as much, it's just different. And this just isn't happening.

Regardless, they should've at least start preparing, just in case. Hell I live in Charlotte, North Carolina. Everytime we think we're about to be hit with a storm we go into advisory mode. People start making plans, buying stuff etc. The city officals start reviewing their plans etc. This did not happen in NO.

Do you live in New Orleans or Louisiana? Do you have copies of every news report coming out of there? Ok.


Look, they don't know if their on medications or not. But would you really let a guy shoot at you when your trying to help him? I mean comon, if your just going to let a guy shoot at you because you might think hes on medication, then you deserve to be shot at. Its called self defense! When someone is threatening your life, regardless of their state of mind, you have to defend yourself. You still haven't answeared my question on what if they aren't on medications.
I'm not too good at math, I don't like tangents.

You made a point that people were shooting at people, I countered the most likely scenario is they are crazy people without their medication (which many people need and don't have). We arn't talknig about anyone shooting back, I don't know where that particular topic of discussion came from.

haha actually I think it's because of African stereotypes. I have cousins who named their children those type of names because they sounded "African". It's rediculous.

But they're usually not "African" names. If they were actual African names, that'd be cool, go heritage. But they're making up names that sound African-like. It'd be like if my parents named me Gartoli or Pavonni or something ridiculous because it sounds Italian.

To be brutally honest, the concept of racism is fraudulent in the extreme, since true racism, in Britain at the least, is generally perpatrated inversely at present. Living in Essex as I do, there are multitudes of immigrants, much to my displeasure, and I am confronted daily with accusations of racism if I so much displease or contrive to offend one of an ethnic provenance. True racism is rare, if non-existent, and accordingly racism is a concept of fraudulent chariteristics.

You made a point that people were shooting at people, I countered the most likely scenario is they are crazy people without their medication (which many people need and don't have). We arn't talknig about anyone shooting back, I don't know where that particular topic of discussion came from.

It came from when you started making excuses for people endangering the lives of the same people that were trying to help them.

My point was that more people than you seem to think have experienced discrimination, either directly, as with your father and brother, assuming that was actually the reason they did not get the job, or indirectly through shit like affirmative action and diversity quotas.



Exactly. You're right here, which is why your statement was a callous one to make. Why do you go on, because what follows is just bullshit. Yes, you may face more direct and angry racism, but that is only from bigots that have little to no authority. Whites, on the other hand, face racism that the law actually requires them to face. They see just as much, it's just different. And this just isn't happening.

Since when? If so that's certainly news to me. When I walk down the street people don't see a human being. They see a black person. When I walk into a store people don't follow the other people around to check and make sure they don't steal anything, they follow me. I experience at least 20 minutes of racism EVERY day of my life, wether it be subtle or outreagously displayed.

That's much, much, much, much more than your average caucasian person. I have nothing against anybody based on race, but just the bigots who practice it on EITHER side, but to say that white people experience it JUST AS MUCH is filled with so much bullshit I can smell it from all the way over here.

But what if they wern't on medications? See, STOP MAKING EXCUSES! If they shot at a National Guardsmen, then the National Guardsmen have the right to shoot him back!

you dont know who is shooting and neither do i. it could very well be crazy people off their meds. it could be the same gang members who have been shooting people in new orleans for the past year. it could be a crazyass white guys who are thinking they need to protect themselves from the black hordes.

its not very likely to be the sane law abiding african american citizens of new orleans who got left behind and are just trying to survive. its possible but not likely.

the assumption that people seem to be making is that black people have such a thin veneer of civilization that they turn into looting killers the minute the police are busy elsewhere. that they behave in ways that white people never ever would.

THAT is racism.

and i can see where that might get on someones already rather frayed nerves and cause him to lash out at the whole thing as being some kind of racist conspiracy.

Since when? If so that's certainly news to me. When I walk down the street people don't see a human being. They see a black person. When I walk into a store people don't follow the other people around to check and make sure they don't steal anything, they follow me. I experience at least 20 minutes of racism EVERY day of my life, wether it be subtle or outreagously displayed.

Okay, unless you intentionally dress like you're from the Bronx, live in an area where theft occurs often and blacks make up the majority of the culprits, or frequent businesses in the middle of the North Carolina boonies, I seriously doubt this is the way things are for you at all. It sounds more like a victim complex than actually being a victim.

That's much, much, much, much more than your average caucasian person. I have nothing against anybody based on race, but just the bigots who practice it on EITHER side, but to say that white people experience it JUST AS MUCH is filled with so much bullshit I can smell it from all the way over here.

That's just horseshit. The only racism you experience in America today is personal prejudice, as with most minorities, whereas whites experience racism that they are required by law to put up with.

Even if you assumed that white people didn't fall victim to discrimination, saying that you do not respect one's opinion on a subject they've not experienced is stupid. That's like saying people who haven't been murdered can't have a valid opinion on the death penalty, or people that haven't been mugged can't have a valid opinion on how to punish muggers.

the assumption that people seem to be making is that black people have such a thin veneer of civilization that they turn into looting killers the minute the police are busy elsewhere. that they behave in ways that white people never ever would.

THAT is racism.

and i can see where that might get on someones already rather frayed nerves and cause him to lash out at the whole thing as being some kind of racist conspiracy.

I don't think anyone's assuming that at all. He is just saying that blaming any neglect that may have occured with respect to New Orleans on race is stupid and unfair.

you dont know who is shooting and neither do i. it could very well be crazy people off their meds. it could be the same gang members who have been shooting people in new orleans for the past year. it could be a crazyass white guys who are thinking they need to protect themselves from the black hordes.

No, but we know who is doing most of the looting and who makes up most of the gangs, and know that looters and gang members would be the most likely ones to have picked up guns along the way, as opposed to scared white guys trying to escape a hurricane.

It came from when you started making excuses for people endangering the lives of the same people that were trying to help them.
Yet we never started talking about anyone shooting back.

you dont know who is shooting and neither do i. it could very well be crazy people off their meds. it could be the same gang members who have been shooting people in new orleans for the past year. it could be a crazyass white guys who are thinking they need to protect themselves from the black hordes.

its not very likely to be the sane law abiding african american citizens of new orleans who got left behind and are just trying to survive. its possible but not likely.

the assumption that people seem to be making is that black people have such a thin veneer of civilization that they turn into looting killers the minute the police are busy elsewhere. that they behave in ways that white people never ever would.

THAT is racism.

and i can see where that might get on someones already rather frayed nerves and cause him to lash out at the whole thing as being some kind of racist conspiracy.

Excuses excuses and excuses.

Okay, unless you intentionally dress like you're from the Bronx, live in an area where theft occurs often and blacks make up the majority of the culprits, or frequent businesses in the middle of the North Carolina boonies, I seriously doubt this is the way things are for you at all. It sounds more like a victim complex than actually being a victim.



That's just horseshit. The only racism you experience in America today is personal prejudice, as with most minorities, whereas whites experience racism that they are required by law to put up with.

Even if you assumed that white people didn't fall victim to discrimination, saying that you do not respect one's opinion on a subject they've not experienced is stupid. That's like saying people who haven't been murdered can't have a valid opinion on the death penalty, or people that haven't been mugged can't have a valid opinion on how to punish muggers.

It's well within someone's rights to be racist towards me as much as they please, and I don't dress like some kind of retarted thug, I dress appropriately. It's just because I'm a dark skinned adolescent people assume I'm about to go around stealing shit, shooting, or any other kind of negative thing. I've been told to my FACE these things, I'm not pulling them out of my ass, people have told me they don't feel comfortable around me because they think I'm going to rob them. Security personnel in stores have brought me to the back and accused me of stealing and have banned me from that particular location. I have been arrested because I happen to "fit the description". (and it was VERY poor description, the only feature described was an African American male)

I hate stereotypes, I hate them so much. When you haven't experienced something personally and know you never will it's VERY easy to say something like "oh those black people are just complaining" or "we experience just as much!". Fuck no you don't, and don't give me this "it's required by law" crap. You aren't being oppressed, it's easier for you to find another job if you have the qualifications than it is for a black person. I stick by what I have said. It is SOOO easy to say something isn't so bad or is non-existant when it isn't happening to you.

I wonder why a bunch of black people in the South might think racism has something to do with it....

Because if it isn't about race, you can't play the sympathy for more political control. Duh. You have to keep the rank and file inline by frequent use of "Race Card" and "I'm black, vote for me!"

It's well within someone's rights to be racist towards me as much as they please, and I don't dress like some kind of retarted thug, I dress appropriately. It's just because I'm a dark skinned adolescent people assume I'm about to go around stealing shit, shooting, or any other kind of negative thing. I've been told to my FACE these things, I'm not pulling them out of my ass, people have told me they don't feel comfortable around me because they think I'm going to rob them. Security personnel in stores have brought me to the back and accused me of stealing and have banned me from that particular location. I have been arrested because I happen to "fit the description". (and it was VERY poor description, the only feature described was an African American male)

Well, then, either the description was better, or you fit one of the other explanations. Besides, I seriously doubt you've been told, "Hey, you look like you might steal from my store because you're black. Thus, I am going to follow you around." That would be admission of profiling.

*I hate stereotypes, I hate them so much. When you haven't experienced something personally and know you never will it's VERY easy to say something like "oh those black people are just complaining" or "we experience just as much!".* Fuck no you don't, and don't give me this "it's required by law" crap. You aren't being oppressed, it's easier for you to find another job if you have the qualifications than it is for a black person. I stick by what I have said. It is SOOO easy to say something isn't so bad or is non-existant when it isn't happening to you.

*thrashes his monitor* Are you kidding? You're never going to experience affirmative action, so, by your logic, you can't say that I'm just complaining and that you experience just as much, because you've never dealt with the shitty end of affirmative action. That argument makes no fucking sense, and, were it valid, neither one of us would be allowed to be having this argument.

Oh, and I never said that. I said that we get just as much shit. You're the one saying affirmative action "isn't so bad" when you'll never deal with it.

Well, then, either the description was better, or you fit one of the other explanations. Besides, I seriously doubt you've been told, "Hey, you look like you might steal from my store. Thus, I am going to follow you around." That would be admission of profiling.



*thrashes his monitor* Are you kidding? You're never going to experience affirmative action, so, by your logic, you can't say that I'm just complaining and that you experience just as much, because you've never dealt with the shitty end of affirmative action. That argument makes no fucking sense, and, were it valid, neither one of us would be allowed to be having this argument.

Oh, and I never said that.

Now the logic behind that argument can be applied to all things. Thus arguing about anything on which two people's opinions differ is highly illogical, therefore nobody should even bother to argue at all because we are doing nothing more than creating a standstill. I have nothing against you, we just have differing opinions, and I hope you feel the same way. I wish you a good day.

You can't deny that race was a major factor in how the evacuation was carried and in how aid is being distributed. Not that I'm saying its deliberate. Some of the places these people are, are hard to reach.

But it must be said that their economic status seems to be playing quite a role.

If the feds want to streamline the process, they should push the corrupt mayor and his corrupt staff out of the way. Cause he's been diverting aid from the people who need it, and getting it to his cronies.
Think about it. He made no provision what ever, (he didn't even ask the feds for it) to evacuate the poor black people of his city. As a corrupt official, his main concern is his loss of "investment" in NO underworld. That is what he is really concerned about.
Look at the article linked to on the other thread. THey stopped the superdome evacuation so that the Mayor's cronies could get out before the people of New Orleans could.

Look at his picture. He even looks like a mafia boss.
http://www.citymayors.com/mayors-pics/orleans_ray_nagin.jpg

No, race was not the determining factor. But don't sit there and try to claim it had absolutely no role.
Don't try to claim that income had absolutely no role. Cause that's just pure bullshit.

Now the logic behind that argument can be applied to all things. Thus arguing about anything on which two people's opinions differ is highly illogical, therefore nobody should even bother to argue at all because we are doing nothing more than creating a standstill. I have nothing against you, we just have differing opinions, and I hope you feel the same way. I wish you a good day.

OMFG! You made that argument. You said that because I won't experience something I can't argue legitimately about it, but you're doing exactly that. Why is this so hard to get through to you?

Since when? If so that's certainly news to me. When I walk down the street people don't see a human being. They see a black person. When I walk into a store people don't follow the other people around to check and make sure they don't steal anything, they follow me. I experience at least 20 minutes of racism EVERY day of my life, wether it be subtle or outreagously displayed.

I do empathise with you, however, do you never consider that this could be a degree of paranoia on your behalf, or endemic of the behaviour of other such ethnic individuals who are irrefutably criminal in their conduct?

You can't deny that race was a major factor in how the evacuation was carried and in how aid is being distributed. Not that I'm saying its deliberate. Some of the places these people are, are hard to reach.
Yes, I can. Look, I'm doing it right now. Besides, the way you've worded this, race wasn't the factor, location was. People of a certain race just happen to live at those locations.

But it must be said that their economic status seems to be playing quite a role.

Because they can't afford to live anywhere but where they are. A white family in the same location would have the same problems. Bush isn't going to send in a special helicopter for that family and say, "Fuck the blacks, we're just saving our brethren."

Don't try to claim that income had absolutely no role. Cause that's just pure bullshit.

Income only has a role because it affects location and mobility.

OMFG! You made that argument. You said that because I won't experience something I can't argue legitimately about it, but you're doing exactly that. Why is this so hard to get through to you?

Because in this matter I have experienced discrimination on a level that a white person can't because of the very fact that they are white. That's my point, that's what my point as been from the very beginning, not the other way around. People dismissing what I go through every day as a falsehood pisses me off to the extreme. THAT'S what I was addressing.

I do empathise with you, however, do you never consider that this could be a degree of paranoia on your behalf, or endemic of the behaviour of other such ethnic individuals who are irrefutably criminal in their conduct?

There are instances where I noticed that there was no racial motive behind it that some other people I know would have reacted to, I try to make sure that the original motive was a racist one before I react. Even when I do react I don't make some huge national deal about it and go on the news and start protesting or any nonsense like that.

Because in this matter I have experienced discrimination on a level that a white person can't because of the very fact that they are white. That's my point, that's what my point as been from the very beginning, not the other way around. People dismissing what I go through every day as a falsehood pisses me off to the extreme. THAT'S what I was addressing.

Holy shit! *stomps around the room in frustration* Please say you are just trying to piss me off. Please. Relieve the stress on my heart. In this matter, white people experience discrimination on a level that a black person can't because of the very fact that they are black. Whites don't fall victim to as much profiling or racism, blacks don't have to put up with affirmative action. You said, and I quote:
Don't want to get involved in this conversation. I might get banned, but for those who talk shit and have never experienced discrimination, your opinions aren't valid to me.
If everyone followed this illogical line of reasoning, I should be ignoring your opinion right now, because you can never experience affirmative action, and thus your opinion on the matter is not valid. Why can't you understand this?

Holy shit! *stomps around the room in frustration* Please say you are just trying to piss me off. Please. Relieve the stress on my heart. In this matter, white people experience discrimination on a level that a black person can't because of the very fact that they are black. Whites don't fall victim to as much profiling or racism, blacks don't have to put up with affirmative action. You said, and I quote:

If everyone followed this illogical line of reasoning, I should be ignoring your opinion right now, because you can never experience affirmative action, and thus your opinion on the matter is not valid. Why can't you understand this?

I most certainly can understand it, you can go ahead and disreguard my opinion on the matter of affirmative action, but when it comes to saying that you experience EQUAL racism I'm going to disagree with that until the day I die, or at least until racism is completely gone from this Earth.

That's my opinion, but it's based on facts and circumstances from my experiences that have built up enough real-life knoweledge to ascertain the severity of the effects of affirmitive action towards white people. Maybe I should have been specific when I said that certain people's opinions weren't valid, maybe I should have said "people who base their opinions on purely estimation and racial bias alone instead of facts." There you happy?

There are instances where I noticed that there was no racial motive behind it that some other people I know would have reacted to, I try to make sure that the original motive was a racist one before I react. Even when I do react I don't make some huge national deal about it and go on the news and start protesting or any nonsense like that.

Indeed not, you log into a forum and berate us to insanity with irrational lunacy that neither represents nor is implicit of the current state of racial affairs, and furthermore you disregard our opinions as irrelevant since we have not lived your life and are not of your ethnic persuasion, and yet you continue to quote and counter our sentiments, irrespective of the fact theyr are "invalid".

Yes, I can. Look, I'm doing it right now. Besides, the way you've worded this, race wasn't the factor, location was. People of a certain race just happen to live at those locations.



Because they can't afford to live anywhere but where they are. A white family in the same location would have the same problems. Bush isn't going to send in a special helicopter for that family and say, "Fuck the blacks, we're just saving our brethren."



Income only has a role because it affects location and mobility.
You can say that with surety, being perched in such a safe place as you are. Probably watching some football game and drinking a cold beer as you post here. While half a million people are dying.

Indeed not, you log into a forum and berate us to insanity with irrational lunacy that neither represents nor is implicit of the current state of racial affairs, and furthermore you disregard our opinions as irrelevant since we have not lived your life and are not of your ethnic persuasion, and yet you continue to quote and counter our sentiments, irrespective of the fact theyr are "invalid".

Yet nothing I have said has "attacked" people who aren't of my racial background. My entire point is to point out that it makes me so sick when people think I make up my experiences or assume that the entirety of African Americans complain for no reason. That's all I'm trying to defend.

I most certainly can understand it, you can go ahead and disreguard my opinion on the matter of affirmative action, but when it comes to saying that you experience EQUAL racism I'm going to disagree with that until the day I die, or at least until racism is completely gone from this Earth.

Okay, fine, then you should expect every white person to feel the exact opposite way, and you're just helping out the KKK to put us back decades of trying to reduce racial prejudice by being prematurely biased on the subject strictly because you think your color gives you authority.

That's my opinion, but it's based on facts and circumstances from my experiences that have built up enough real-life knoweledge to ascertain the severity of the effects of affirmitive action towards white people. Maybe I should have been specific when I said that certain people's opinions weren't valid, maybe I should have said "people who base their opinions on purely estimation and racial bias alone instead of facts." There you happy?

What are you talking about? You're the one basing your opinions off racial bias, not to mention paranoia. I'm the one arguing facts - affirmative action doesn't like white people. Period. That's how it works. That's the point. It's supposed to help everyone but white people.

You can say that with surety, being perched in such a safe place as you are. Probably watching some football game and drinking a cold beer as you post here. While half a million people are dying.

Deep, Whittier, real deep. That was a fine reply, and not an attempt to dodge the fact that your allegations were unfounded in the least.

Deep, Whittier, real deep. That was a fine reply, and not an attempt to dodge the fact that your allegations were unfounded in the least.
You'll have to excuse me. I find the whole way in which the situation is being handled to be very offensive to my sense of what it is to be an American. Americans aren't supposed to react that way to other Americans in need. I'm still pissed off about that guy in the other who basically said he couldn't care if the city's inhabitants all died as long as he could still get cheap gas.
So, you'll have to forgive me if I get bent out and angry.
Those people are Americans but they are not being treated like Americans. They are being treated as if they were trashy illegals or foriegners.
Those people are human beings, yet they are not being treated like human beings.

Okay, fine, then you should expect every white person to feel the exact opposite way, and you're just helping out the KKK to put us back decades of trying to reduce racial prejudice by being to prematurely biased on the subject strictly because you think your color gives you authority.



What are you talking about? You're the one basing your opinions off racial bias, not to mention paranoia. I'm the one arguing facts - affirmative action doesn't like white people. Period. That's how it works. That's the point. It's supposed to help everyone but white people.

Actually affrimitive supposedly exists to help secure a better job position for minorities who are more likely to be poor, sadly it just doesn't work out that way and it ends up going in the wrong direction but it wasn't established to be this "anti-white people" thing.

The only thing about my racial idenity that gives me the authority on anything is how to be totally disrespected and not being able to complain, because if I do I'm seen as bitching for no reason. Life is already hard enough I wish we didn't have all these racial barriers and all that crap. I don't want any kind of advantage over white people, and I don't want them to have any kind of advantage over me. I also don't want to be verbally assaulted or treated any differently just because of the way I look. I think that's something we can both agree on.

What are you talking about? You're the one basing your opinions off racial bias, not to mention paranoia. I'm the one arguing facts - affirmative action doesn't like white people. Period. That's how it works. That's the point. It's supposed to help everyone but white people.

You ought to live in England if you think affirmative action is bad. I could submit one job application as Christopher Dale, and a complte replica as Felix Obikwelu Mpelele Mbangabanga, and Felix would get the job on principle, irrespective of his accent sounding akin to some bilge from Jamaica, and his using "blood" and "wasquani" every other SODDING WORD.

You'll have to excuse me. I find the whole way in which the situation is being handled to be very offensive to my sense of what it is to be an American. Americans aren't supposed to react that way to other Americans in need. I'm still pissed off about that guy in the other who basically said he couldn't care if the city's inhabitants all died as long as he could still get cheap gas.
So, you'll have to forgive me if I get bent out and angry.
Those people are Americans but they are not being treated like Americans. They are being treated as if they were trashy illegals or foriegners.
Those people are human beings, yet they are not being treated like human beings.

As were those prisoners in the abuse cases in Iraq, I might add, and yet no war crimes trial in the Hague is forthcoming....

Actually affrimitive supposedly exists to help secure a better job position for minorities who are more likely to be poor, sadly it just doesn't work out that way and it ends up going in the wrong direction but it wasn't established to be this "anti-white people" thing.

Gee, and the KKK is just out to help further the goals of white people, not hurt black people. Besides, my family never made it to the poverty line the entire time I was growing up, so for a black to have an advantage over me because he's more likely to be poor is fucking retarded.

The only thing about my racial idenity that gives me the authority on anything is how to be totally disrespected and not being able to complain, because if I do I'm seen as bitching for no reason. Life is already hard enough I wish we didn't have all these racial barriers and all that crap. I don't want any kind of advantage over white people, and I don't want them to have any kind of advantage over me. I also don't want to be verbally assaulted or treated any differently just because of the way I look. I think that's something we can both agree on.

You seem to be able to complain fine, and for the last time, I never said that. You're paranoid. You're the one saying that I have no right to complain compared to you. Stop making stuff up and stick to the facts. And unless you live in a racist area, you're probably not treated nearly as differently as you seem to think. If you don't want an advantage, you shouldn't want affirmative action, and you shouldn't consider people that fall victim to it to have less authority than you on the subject of discrimination.

You ought to live in England if you think affirmative action is bad. I could submit one job application as Christopher Dale, and a complte replica as Felix Obikwelu Mpelele Mbangabanga, and Felix would get the job on principle, irrespective of his accent sounding akin to some bilge from Jamaica, and his using "blood" and "wasquani" every other SODDING WORD.

ROFL! Sorry to hear that. Fortunately, I live in America.

It was a perfectly normal question to ask..

"haha, you need to get a grip , he just explained his opinion and you attack him. Wak up grudgy today? "

Yeah alright, he "explained" his opinion. You are a fucking dumbass. That is my opinion. Wait, that's a flame and an insult right? So maybe it was an INSULT to ME when he said it should be legal and not against the law for someone to say, deny me the offer of a job because I am not fully British (while I'm a British citizen, I'm was born in Borneo and my father is a Sabahan and you can tell I'm from somewhere in Asia)? I take that, as a patriot, a person who loves his country and it's history and it's culture and it's people, as a personal insult. In fact, it's not just an insult to me, it's an insult to every British citizen, it's an insult to those who fought in the Falklands, World War One and Two, in the Napoleonic Wars, to Britons throughout the ages who fought for their country and their way of life, whether white, black, or asian.

Meet my friends, Screw, and You.

He never said only half british citizens cant get jobs, half citizens dont exist, he means minoritys.

Ah, and you use veterans as a weapon? im officer cadet robert rogerson of the 67th signals corp of the territoral army, i am fighting for our freedom (well, im training right now) are you in the army? no,YOUR AND INSULT TO ME!!!!!

Your not a patriot! your hurling abuse at a british soldier? patriot? pah, you dont know the meaning of the word, im putting my life on the line do you can enjoy life, and this is how you repay me, what are you doing? sitting on your arse whining about things you dont understand.

and you consider someones opnion as flame bait??!!!?!?! your pathetic. I find your opinions offensive, but id tolorate them, i wont tolerate you hurling abuse at me.

And, neither have you provided a decent counter argument, your in the wrong completely, what a shame.

It was a perfectly normal question to ask..

"haha, you need to get a grip , he just explained his opinion and you attack him. Wak up grudgy today? "

Yeah alright, he "explained" his opinion. You are a fucking dumbass. That is my opinion. Wait, that's a flame and an insult right? So maybe it was an INSULT to ME when he said it should be legal and not against the law for someone to say, deny me the offer of a job because I am not fully British (while I'm a British citizen, I'm was born in Borneo and my father is a Sabahan and you can tell I'm from somewhere in Asia)? I take that, as a patriot, a person who loves his country and it's history and it's culture and it's people, as a personal insult. In fact, it's not just an insult to me, it's an insult to every British citizen, it's an insult to those who fought in the Falklands, World War One and Two, in the Napoleonic Wars, to Britons throughout the ages who fought for their country and their way of life, whether white, black, or asian.

Meet my friends, Screw, and You.

Firstly, do not presume to insult me sir, I am considerably more intelligent and erudite than yourself. Secondly, this isn't "your" country, you qualify for citizenship merely by an injust and irrational immigration system. Furthermore, as a history student at the most prestigious state sixth form in th country, I consider myself somewhat more informed as to British military history than yourself, who fraudulently claims to be a patriot. Of the wars you refer to above, all were fought on the whole by white, caucasian soldiers, who fought to preserve Brittania as they knew it, not by Mr. Mbangabnga from 'ackney who is fighting to protect the 'crib.

Finally, sir, my intention in the previous post was not to insult your esteemed personality, only to counteract th simplistic, immature and irrelevant argument arrayed before me by the modern day Machiavelli.

Firstly, do not presume to insult me sir, I am considerably more intelligent and erudite than yourself. Secondly, this isn't "your" country, you qualify for citizenship merely by an injust and irrational immigration system. Furthermore, as a history student at the most prestigious state sixth form in th country, I consider myself somewhat more informed as to British military history than yourself, who fraudulently claims to be a patriot. Of the wars you refer to above, all were fought on the whole by white, caucasian soldiers, who fought to preserve Brittania as they knew it, not by Mr. Mbangabnga from 'ackney who is fighting to protect the 'crib.

Finally, sir, my intention in the previous post was not to insult your esteemed personality, only to counteract th simplistic, immature and irrelevant argument arrayed before me by the modern day Machiavelli.

Excellent post, im actually clapping! In the napoleonic wars, we faught against france because it was to liberal for our liking :D

Oh chris, if you have msn, add me robertrogerson@hotmail.com

I play the race card.

http://img342.imageshack.us/img342/632/racecard5nm.jpg

I obviously win, the card says so.

Presicly! i agree with you entirely, Oak Trail.

Presicly! i agree with you entirely, Oak Trail.

Thank you for your support. But really, I made this post because I live in the South. The South being the location of the slavery, civil rights movements, and the advancement of blacks. I want all of us to forget the color of the skin, but to look on the inside of one another. That is why I hate the race card, because it does not allow us to look inside of one another.

sometimes nature is more viscious than any government can easily handle.This is going in my sig, for sure!

You do realize that slavery was over 400 years ago. And the Civil Rights movement was 30 years ago. You know the black men and women that are now old and who were in the movement never play the race card. They just work hard as anyone else, and they know that not everything is about race. Its the yonger crowd thats using the race card.


If you dont think that rasicm isnt alive and well in the American south, you ought to take a tour sometime.

There are still segregated checkout lines in grocery stores.

They just arent marked as such.

I know...I was told I was in "The Black Line" at a Food Lion in South Carolina once.

People may play that card way too much, but believe me...its still everywhere.

Thank you for your support. But really, I made this post because I live in the South. The South being the location of the slavery, civil rights movements, and the advancement of blacks. I want all of us to forget the color of the skin, but to look on the inside of one another. That is why I hate the race card, because it does not allow us to look inside of one another.

Firstly i agree with you fundamentally, i wish a world without discrimination were possible.

But, right now, no. The basis of the human mind is, it loves being in a group.

You can see this from teenagers in gangs, sports supporters at a soccer match, soldiers in an army.

Citizens of a country. Like it or not, humans love being in a group, its the basis of our social abilities that animals dont have.

Lets say you went to germany in 2006 for the world cup, id be wearing an english t shirt the entire time, id be chanting "one world cup and two world wars doo daa doo daa" and hurling abuse at whatever team we played that day.

Why? im not like that normally, i allways have a sense of decorum that i was taught at boarding school, why would i do such things?!?!

Because, all the other english fans are doing it, and i feel part of a group. I feel proud to be english , and jsut for those few days, we're the best country in the world!

You can attack that example if you wish but, the fundamental basis is correct.

Racism and discriminiation will never die. I wish it could but, unless we start playing around with human genetics, its here to stay. So i get on with life, knowing im going to discriminate people, and im going to be discriminated against.

In other words, if this isnt solvable without pissing of an entire population and offending more people then your trying to stop being offended, ive got more important things to worry about, eg my fiancee.

I hate the race card. I had an argument with my dad about it last night when the news reporter mentioned that the "poor, black" people living in New Orleans were having their lives destroyed. I questioned why mentioning that they were black was necessary. If they were white, it wouldn't be an issue. I don't give a monkey's arse about someone's colour, I judge them by something slightly more important than that. I would absolutely love to see the day when colour really isn't an issue. Unfortunately, today when I voice that view, it gets interpreted as "racism" because I do not positivly discriminate against minorities. :headbang:

Gee, and the KKK is just out to help further the goals of white people, not hurt black people. Besides, my family never made it to the poverty line the entire time I was growing up, so for a black to have an advantage over me because he's more likely to be poor is fucking retarded.



You seem to be able to complain fine, and for the last time, I never said that. You're paranoid. You're the one saying that I have no right to complain compared to you. Stop making stuff up and stick to the facts. And unless you live in a racist area, you're probably not treated nearly as differently as you seem to think. If you don't want an advantage, you shouldn't want affirmative action, and you shouldn't consider people that fall victim to it to have less authority than you on the subject of discrimination.

Let me explain something to you. When you are born into poverty and raised in such a fashion where you have hardly anything and you see another group of people who have WAY more than you, you begin to feel useless. Therefore when you get old enough and you get introduced to illegal activities that bring decent amounts of money, you freak out and buy all this useless shit you don't need (gold chains, spinning rims, etc).

Now, since the acquisition of wealth through these activites is illegal not every black person engages in them so they are stuck poor. When you are poor you can't go to college. When you are poor you can hardly afford to feed yourself or your family, so how is someone supposed to get a decent education without the funds? This in turn makes people feel even more useless and it adds to the chain of poverty. It's DAMN hard to get out of that, I was born into poverty and luckily my family got out, but not everyone is so lucky. Of course people who live in a good position and have money aren't going to like affirmitive action, that's understandable, but there has to be SOMETHING for poor people in general that can help them out of poverty. Now days classism is more rampant than racism, but when you combine those two you've got one hell of a ignorant, annoying, and highly dismissed (at least these days) combination.

But oh, of course you're just going to dismiss everything I just said and attempt to call me, my ideas, and my experiences idiotic just as you have been doing on this thread, but that's ok with me because I KNOW what I've been through, I KNOW what it's like to be poor, I KNOW what it's like to be discriminated against to the point where you question if you're even WORTH anything. I just don't want anybody giving me this shit about me overreacting or being parinoid because my experiences are VERY clear, if I had doubts that they were racist then I'd be TOTALLY incorrect.

As for making up stuff, what the fucking HELL? See that's what I'm talking about, whenever I tell someone about my experiences or opinions they dismiss them and tell me to stop making them up, that's what the fuck I hate and you're displaying that very thing, and it doesn't matter where you live racist people are EVERYWHERE. Hell yes I think people who fall victim to affirmitive action have less authority on this, because MOST have never faced anything that threatened their personal safety.

There are those who have been assaulted and can certainly have an authority on this subject, but to those who were born into families where money has never been a problem, you were able to go get the best education, never experienced ANY kind of hardships, and then complain about affirimitive action and say it has ANY kind of comparison to what an African American person goes through in their daily life is just playing an EXTREME victim role. If you're just going to say everything I just said is stupid then I'm done talking to you, I will be completely done.

Heres another, i woke up and in a daze, put ITV news on, they consider the fact a muslim won the miss england contest headline news, and they never reported about that contest before.

Not that i have a problem with muslims winning it, but why report it when a muslim wins it and not when i white woman wins it? i didnt even know that contest existed untill this morning.

I hate the race card. I had an argument with my dad about it last night when the news reporter mentioned that the "poor, black" people living in New Orleans were having their lives destroyed. I questioned why mentioning that they were black was necessary. If they were white, it wouldn't be an issue. I don't give a monkey's arse about someone's colour, I judge them by something slightly more important than that. I would absolutely love to see the day when colour really isn't an issue. Unfortunately, today when I voice that view, it gets interpreted as "racism" because I do not positivly discriminate against minorities. :headbang:

Quite prevailant sentiments in the UK at present, and entirely illogical. Race remanis an issue solely because the presence of politically correct left wing morons allow it to be by transmuting it into a cardinal sin in Britich culture.

But oh, of course you're just going to dismiss everything I just said and attempt to call me, my ideas, and my experiences idiotic just as you have been doing on this thread, but that's ok with me because I KNOW what I've been through, I KNOW what it's like to be poor, I KNOW what it's like to be discriminated against to the point where you question if you're even WORTH anything. I just don't want anybody giving me this shit about me overreacting or being parinoid because my experiences are VERY clear, if I had doubts that they were racist then I'd be TOTALLY incorrect

Would the poor sir like a medal for his troubles? :rolleyes:

"Why are the vast majority of prison people black? Hmmm, maybe it has something to do with the CRIMES that they committed. Every once in a while they would imprison the wrong people, but that does not happen very often."


Oak Trail, that is the most idiotic thing I have ever read on here and undermines everything you try to say after that.

You should try living in Britain, the race card is played so often that I believe casino's ought to interdict its use. If an unqualified ethnic individual is denied a job in place of a more suitable caucasian, he will almost always sue for racial discrimination. If I was a pm, racism wouldn't be illegal, let alone punishable by law.

I ABSOLUTELY TOTALLY AGREE!!! I am proud to be against political correctness in the UK. You can't switch on the TV without a muslim shouting about how nobody listens to them, and the stupid Muslim Council of Britain is always on everybody's backs. If the immigrants are worried about racism, why don't they get elected to Parliament and express their views in the right place??

Would the poor sir like a medal for his troubles? :rolleyes:

And would Mr. Predilection Towards Irrelivancy like a cookie for attempting to be "defiant" towards my opinions and make me feel insignificant, insecure, and ashamed of displaying them?

And would Mr. Predilection Towards Irrelivancy like a cookie for attempting to be "defiant" towards my opinions and make me feel insignificant, insecure, and ashamed of displaying them?

May I enquire as to what flavour it is?

I ABSOLUTELY TOTALLY AGREE!!! I am proud to be against political correctness in the UK. You can't switch on the TV without a muslim shouting about how nobody listens to them, and the stupid Muslim Council of Britain is always on everybody's backs. If the immigrants are worried about racism, why don't they get elected to Parliament and express their views in the right place??

Because the capacity to speak coherent and intelligable english is generally a necessity in an english parliment. :D

May I enquire as to what flavour it is?

Most like a sugar cookie, or those delicious little Dutch butter cookies that come in a metal container.

Because the capacity to speak coherent and intelligable english is generally a necessity in an english parliment. :D

Trying to speak with complex words isn't disguising your ignorance.

Trying to speak with complex words isn't disguising your ignorance.

Whereas the provision of interpreters for a member of parliment would be an utterly fanatstic concept, since nobody ought to feel any compulsion to converse in the native tongue of england when part of its administration, should they?

Incidentally, do not deride me for eloquence, and my arguments and rationality are similarly complex. Welcome to intellectual discourse.

Are you suggesting that immagrants don't speak English?

If I was President Affirmative Action would go down the toilet, and in its place. A law that states that you cannot hire a person based on color, sex, religion, disability, or any outwardly physical apperarnce. You must hire them based on their credentials.
Even with Affirmative Action in the US, there is still a huge gulf between whites, blacks and Hispanics in employment (http://www.census.gov/prod/99pubs/99statab/sec13.pdf). What would you do as President to close these huge gulfs?

Because the capacity to speak coherent and intelligable english is generally a necessity in an english parliment. :D
However, correct spelling and grammar are optional? :rolleyes:

Even with Affirmative Action in the US, there is still a huge gulf between whites, blacks and Hispanics in employment (http://www.census.gov/prod/99pubs/99statab/sec13.pdf). What would you do as President to close these huge gulfs?

I don't believe in laws requiring employers to follow quotas etc as I feel that this just manipulates numbers and statistics and doesn't address the real problem. It helps a little but it requires a much greater shift at a much more grass-root level, these actions tend to try and disguise the problem with simplistic short-term measures and avoid the core of the problem.

I don't believe in laws requiring employers to follow quotas etc as I feel that this just manipulates numbers and statistics and doesn't address the real problem. It helps a little but it requires a much greater shift at a much more grass-root level, these actions tend to try and disguise the problem with simplistic short-term measures and avoid the core of the problem.
What is "the core of the problem", and what would be your solution to the "problem"?

I happened to be at a family gathering yesterday and one person (by marriage only) joked about "it was like all those blacks coming out of N.O."
Yeah, race had nothing to do with it.

The reason disaster was so slow.

They don't care about poor people.
The people stuck in N.O. could not afford to get out.

Look at government policy across the board, local or national, state,
whatever. It favors the rich. No secret there. They just never
talk about it and hope we all don't notice.

Monies for national natural disaster such as N.O. dikes - the #1 concern of
disaster experts- over the last 3 three years has been
cut or not at adequate levels. Where'd the money go?

to ANOTHER rich man's war.
as all wars are.
every war has an economic underpinning to it.
every war.
some have a little religion to help people justify to themselves
what is going on (such as 'god bless america'),
but it's always ECONOMIC at its base.

What is "the core of the problem", and what would be your solution to the "problem"?

Of course, that's the challenge Politicians face. The problem is mainly found in the comparitive poverty that many minorities face and the grouping of the minorities together which lead to problems with education and crime. Now, I'm not totally sure about the U.S but in the U.K we've tried to find solutions through trying to spread areas of poverty out, rather than allowing ghettos to develop. This means that local schools improve overall and crime isn't trapped in one area. Welfare is obviously higher than in America and there is a lot of educational support. It's far from perfect and a lot more needs to be done but that is the direction that we should be heading.

This way more people in minorties go on to become more qualified, more affluent and start to naturally spread the amount of ethnic diversity out around a region.

Of course, that's the challenge Politicians face.
It is a very complex problem and probably moreso in the US than say Canada or the UK. However, there is a solution.

The problem is mainly found in the comparitive poverty that many minorities face and the grouping of the minorities together which lead to problems with education and crime.
Absolutely.

Now, I'm not totally sure about the U.S but in the U.K we've tried to find solutions through trying to spread areas of poverty out, rather than allowing ghettos to develop. This means that local schools improve overall and crime isn't trapped in one area.
We have adopted a similar approach in the Province of Ontario, which has the highest population in Canada.

Welfare is obviously higher than in America and there is a lot of educational support. It's far from perfect and a lot more needs to be done but that is the direction that we should be heading.
There is definately more poverty in the US and that situation continues to feed the "core problem". Higher education is the key to freedom, but that also requires support systems being established and strengthened. To break the chain of dependency, these poor people need jobs and supports.

This way more people in minorties go on to become more qualified, more affluent and start to naturally spread the amount of ethnic diversity out around a region.
This approach is certainly better than just ignoring the problem in hopes that it will just go away. There is a key to the solution, and from what I see (on these boards) there appears to be a lack of willingness to go forward and fix the problem?

Are you suggesting that immagrants don't speak English?

Evidently, unless Punjabi or Africaan is an estranged dialect of old english.

Now, I'm not totally sure about the U.S but in the U.K we've tried to find solutions through trying to spread areas of poverty out, rather than allowing ghettos to develop. This means that local schools improve overall and crime isn't trapped in one area.

Quite, an utterly inspired scheme of enforcing the relocation of degenerates into otherwise peaceful, affluent communities, which facilitates an increase in crime, reduction in house prices, reduction in the allure of the area, and devolution in the social class of the area. May equality, socialism, and positive discrimination long endure :rolleyes:

I cannot be the ONLY one thats tired of people using the "race card" when something doesn't go their way. The latest example of this, is the diaster of Katrina. People are actually complaning that because New Orleans majority population is black that its the reason the rescue effort has been so slow. Hell even one entertainer on a fundraiser for the Katrina disaster called Bush a racist. STOP IT, STOP IT, STOP IT, STOP IT! Why don't you take that stupid head out of your ass and realize that there are REASONS BESIDE RACE that the rescue efforts are slow.

1. The Governor of LA and the Mayor of NO did not have a plan in place. This was evidence when they tried to evacuate a large city in 2 DAYS!

2. No Bus, The governor of LA and the Mayor of NO could've used the Bus. The Bus drivers are governmental employees, so the could've driven the Bus. Hell even truckers could drive the Bus. Hell even an 18 year old boy figured out how to drive a Bus from NO to TEXAS! USE THE (censored) BUS!

3. Shooting and looting. Maybe if these IDIOTS would just stop SHOOTING at the people that are TRYING to help them, things would be a lot smoother. Also, while I may have no problem with stealing of medical supplies, food or water. But since when do you need a new Plasma TV? Hell even one woman lost her kids because she wanted to get some da da dAAAAA new expensive dresses! I think she deserves mother of the freakin year!

4. No National Guards. The National Guard is under STATE control. While a certain portion of the NG can be called to National duty. The National government isn't stupid to take away the entire guard. the Governor of LA had 8,000 National Guardsmen at her service. Did she call on them, NOPE! See, there are certain people who are first responders. They are the NG, Police, fire department, and of course medical personal. WHERE ARE THOSE PEOPLE!??

So as you can see, Not everything is about Race. In fact, please burn the race card. This is not 19 freakin 60! I swear if the Race Card was an actual card, the next time I see it being used, I would shove it right up the person's ass. You know, sometimes, when you don't get what you want. Most of the time, its probably something OTHER than the color of your skin. In fact, the people using the race card are the one that are hurting their race. Heres an idea, stop concetrating so much on the color of your skin, but more on whats inside of the person.

About race, yeah; I've heard that some media, talking about images of blacks, said "It's plunder"; and about images of whites, "they look for food".

Quite, an utterly inspired scheme of enforcing the relocation of degenerates into otherwise peaceful, affluent communities, which facilitates an increase in crime, reduction in house prices, reduction in the allure of the area, and devolution in the social class of the area. May equality, socialism, and positive discrimination long endure :rolleyes:

I agree, these travelers travel around britian, destroying parks ,commons and farmland illegally, they build houses illegally, and the goverment treats them as victims because people hate them!

If a traveller came near where i live, house prices would drop, because to make a living travellers steal. They intimidate the local population. As there here illegally, the local residents get a court order to have them forcibly removed but this takes 2-3 months, by which time the travellers have moved on, either that or they appeal, in the meantime the village is wrecked, and house prices plummet,


and the goverment takes the side of the traveller, what about the tax paying peaceful citizens of the village?!!?

but it's always ECONOMIC at its base.

You know, capitalism has its things.

but it's always ECONOMIC at its base.


Tell me of a war that had nothing to do with accusition of power or money and ill give you a cookie.

From The Wanderer and His Shadow by Nietzche(who's not a Nazi BTW):

" A few hours of mountain climbing turn a villian and a saint into two rather equal creatures. Exhaustion is the shortest way to equality and fraternity- and liberty is added eventually by sleep"

"Why are the vast majority of prison people black? Hmmm, maybe it has something to do with the CRIMES that they committed. Every once in a while they would imprison the wrong people, but that does not happen very often."


Oak Trail, that is the most idiotic thing I have ever read on here and undermines everything you try to say after that.

So your saying that criminals shouldn't be held accountable for their crimes? Hello Race Card.... :rolleyes:

Even with Affirmative Action in the US, there is still a huge gulf between whites, blacks and Hispanics in employment (http://www.census.gov/prod/99pubs/99statab/sec13.pdf). What would you do as President to close these huge gulfs?

Well first off I would tell the American public that its not the government job to gurantee you a job. You yourself need to find out why your not getting hired. Now in the case that it is racisim in which sometimes it is. Then hey the company should pay the consequences for hiring base on race. See Affirmative Action does nothing. All it does is promotes the same hiring base on race, but on a diffrent set of race. It just doesn't make any sense. Now I do like the part of Affirmative Action that forces the same consquences for employees. Like lets say you have two employees, one white, and one black. If they both steal something, then they have to be fired the same way. Both of them have to be given the same amount of warning, or pay cut etc. That part of affirmative action I do like. I just don't like the way they want the companies to hire people. Like I said, when it comes to hiring, credentials should be at the top of the list.

I happened to be at a family gathering yesterday and one person (by marriage only) joked about "it was like all those blacks coming out of N.O."
Yeah, race had nothing to do with it.

The reason disaster was so slow.

They don't care about poor people.
The people stuck in N.O. could not afford to get out.

Look at government policy across the board, local or national, state,
whatever. It favors the rich. No secret there. They just never
talk about it and hope we all don't notice.

Monies for national natural disaster such as N.O. dikes - the #1 concern of
disaster experts- over the last 3 three years has been
cut or not at adequate levels. Where'd the money go?

to ANOTHER rich man's war.
as all wars are.
every war has an economic underpinning to it.
every war.
some have a little religion to help people justify to themselves
what is going on (such as 'god bless america'),
but it's always ECONOMIC at its base.
Could it be thta the reason their aren't very many rich in the military because MOST rich kids are worthless spoiled fucking brats who basically aren't worth anything with a trust fund? I for one am glad it is the way it is. Could you see Justin Timberlake and Paris Hilton trying to get through bootcamp?

Could it be thta the reason their aren't very many rich in the military because MOST rich kids are worthless spoiled fucking brats who basically aren't worth anything with a trust fund? I for one am glad it is the way it is. Could you see Justin Timberlake and Paris Hilton trying to get through bootcamp?

I woudent consider myself as rich as those people above but, my dad is a millionaire, and im the the TA (territral army) im set to inherit his buinsesses , but, i want to be in the army, and an officer im training to be. Why? a lot of reasons, money isnt one of them though. Youll find people who have rich parents generally arnt spoiled, if there parents have sense (like mine do) i pa to stay at home, i have a job, i get nothing from my parents money wise.

So your saying that criminals shouldn't be held accountable for their crimes? Hello Race Card.... :rolleyes:

No, I'm saying that unless minorities have some sort of in-built crime gene, you've got to look at the siuation and analyse why this is happening. Minorities are a part of our society, they are one of US. You seem to be looking at it as an us vs them situation which in my experience is one of the most telling attributes of ignorance and possibly racism. If you've got more blacks in prison than in school (I believe this is the case in Texas, though I could be waaaay off) you've got to look at the social and economic circumstances which have led to this and try to effectively manage the problem. Not continue the situation and just keep locking people up.

I heard that in an American city (I forget which one) the murder rate was at one point one in nineteen for young black men. Now, unless you want to tell me that the black people in this area were born violent and criminal then go ahead, otherwise governments have to look at issues like this as their responsibility. Locking up black man after black man in that area won't improve the situation, better management and a brighter future will.

Quite, an utterly inspired scheme of enforcing the relocation of degenerates into otherwise peaceful, affluent communities, which facilitates an increase in crime, reduction in house prices, reduction in the allure of the area, and devolution in the social class of the area. May equality, socialism, and positive discrimination long endure :rolleyes:

It would reduce the crime-rate in fact, now you can stay in a gated community or whatever and allow people to suffer in the ghettos but that's just sticking your head in the sand. You don't see it, it doesn't exsist? Across the board (and governments have to look at everyone, not just those in nicer areas) and this action is proven to effectively reduce crime.

Your nice area will be damaged slightly in the short-term but the amount it will improve the large areas of poverty in the long-term by a large amount makes it more than worthwhile. Unfortunately, responsible government and management (evidently a rarity in the US :( ) doesn't listen to selfish demands.

Evidently, unless Punjabi or Africaan is an estranged dialect of old english.

So none of them speak English already? Or learn?

So none of them speak English already? Or learn?

Nope, when i go to Coventry, barely any of the minorities working in the shops can speak english. The same goes for birmingham. I think there should be a test on it (english) before there granted citizenship, like the US does.

The obvious solution is to nuke ourselves into oblivion so we stop debating about it. Or we could, y'know, either kill the racists or charge them incredible fines/jail time so that they stop teaching their kids racist bullshit.

Also, I propose we stop being "politically correct". "African-American" is incorrect, as there are African whites as well as non-African blacks. Therefore, it's inherently racist, making it politcally inocorrect. So stop it.

Not to say we should go back to calling them (racist term ahead that is not my belief but requires a warning in case someone finds it offensive, because it has carried that connotation for years due to a peculiar slang variation of "negro", the Spanish word for black, which means that Mexicans at some point hated blacks...?) niggers. It's just that African-American is a retarded way of saying black. We don't call ourselves European-Americans, we call ourselves white.

Also, I propose we stop being "politically correct". "African-American" is incorrect, as there are African whites as well as non-African blacks. Therefore, it's inherently racist, making it politcally inocorrect. So stop it.


That may find its way into my sic, if ive seen a contradictory paragraph, this is it :D

The obvious solution is to nuke ourselves into oblivion so we stop debating about it. Or we could, y'know, either kill the racists or charge them incredible fines/jail time so that they stop teaching their kids racist bullshit.


Fines and jail for thoght crime, yeah right. Racists can do what they want so long as they dont harm anyone, and who are you to tell people what they can and cant teach there kids? who do you think you are?!?!

You might as well rename your self big brother for proposing thought crime and poking ure nose in the way people raise there kids.

Fines and jail for thoght crime, yeah right. Racists can do what they want so long as they dont harm anyone, and who are you to tell people what they can and cant teach there kids? who do you think you are?!?!

You might as well rename your self big brother for proposing thought crime and poking ure nose in the way people raise there kids.

I was also a little disturbed by the recommendation that we destry the entire human race with atomic bombs. Could it be that the poster wasn't being 100% serious?

I was also a little disturbed by the recommendation that we destry the entire human race with atomic bombs. Could it be that the poster wasn't being 100% serious?
Sarcasm is so hard to get in the written word.

Nope, when i go to Coventry, barely any of the minorities working in the shops can speak english. The same goes for birmingham. I think there should be a test on it (english) before there granted citizenship, like the US does.

So you've said "no, none of them can speak English". I'm glad you backed it up with that water-tight statement :)

http://yahooracists.ytmnd.com/

http://yahooracists.ytmnd.com/

First of all AP/AFP is responsible for that, secondly there could be many reasons for that. Jumping to conclusions is dangerous and I think there has been a statement explaining the wording released at some point.

First of all AP/AFP is responsible for that, secondly there could be many reasons for that. Jumping to conclusions is dangerous and I think there has been a statement explaining the wording released at some point.

I'd like to hear that statement and how they explain the difference between "finding" things in a store and "looting".

I'd like to hear that statement and how they explain the difference between "finding" things in a store and "looting".

Well, it's two different photographers and iirc, one saw the people actually entering the store whilst the other saw people collect them as they floated away (otherwise to be destroyed) they collected them.

Even if that hadn't been the case, journalists don't use the same word twice where they can help it. So you get different words for things - as snopes explains - "(similar photographs from the same news services variously describe the depicted actions as "looting," "raiding," "taking," "finding," and "making off")."

Nope, when i go to Coventry, barely any of the minorities working in the shops can speak english. The same goes for birmingham. I think there should be a test on it (english) before there granted citizenship, like the US does.

Finally, sanity.... :)

It would reduce the crime-rate in fact, now you can stay in a gated community or whatever and allow people to suffer in the ghettos but that's just sticking your head in the sand. You don't see it, it doesn't exsist? Across the board (and governments have to look at everyone, not just those in nicer areas) and this action is proven to effectively reduce crime.

Your nice area will be damaged slightly in the short-term but the amount it will improve the large areas of poverty in the long-term by a large amount makes it more than worthwhile. Unfortunately, responsible government and management (evidently a rarity in the US :( ) doesn't listen to selfish demands.

I simply fail to comprehend why we, exemplary citizens, ought to be imposed upon and be deficieries, merely due to the government's evident ineptitude at ameliorating the inner city areas, when, to be frank, I lack both the inclination or compassion to care for the inner city. Furthermore, why ought we not to simply intern and encircle the inner cities, they, for the most part, are inhabitated by degenerates, undesirables and essentially deplorable individuals, who simply contrive to devolve society.

Well, it's two different photographers and iirc, one saw the people actually entering the store whilst the other saw people collect them as they floated away (otherwise to be destroyed) they collected them.

Even if that hadn't been the case, journalists don't use the same word twice where they can help it. So you get different words for things - as snopes explains - "(similar photographs from the same news services variously describe the depicted actions as "looting," "raiding," "taking," "finding," and "making off")."

I don't believe the photographers or the news service are being racist. But the photos have the same subject and the only context we have are the captions. It's just clumsy...

As the official nationstates White guy, I can say two cheers for my pasty friend here!

I mean these Negros are getting a little uppity. They were slaves, but they asked nicely so we let them go. But ohhh nooo, that's not enough. Then they want to be able to vote, or to go to a nice public school, or *gasp* date my white daughter! But being the nice, loving white people we are, we said okay y'all, enjoy. But noooo, now they're all uppity, complaining about "they left us here to die!," and "where's our food, we're starving!, and "hey, how come in a city with both white and black people, almost all those left behind are black!" Sheesh. We try to be nice, but it's always something with these darned negroes. Next thing you know they'll be asking why, in a country with a majority white population, the vast majority of all prisoners are black.

What's your average white guy to do?

:D

If I was President Affirmative Action would go down the toilet, and in its place. A law that states that you cannot hire a person based on color, sex, religion, disability, or any outwardly physical apperarnce. You must hire them based on their credentials.

We already have laws that prohibit hiring based on color, race, ethnicity, sex, religion, national origin, ect.

So except for the "any outwardly physical appearance" part, we already have such laws. Both federal law and laws in every state.

These laws protect white male Christians exactly the same as Jewish black women.

Your ignorance of this basic fact not only evidence of your ignorance of Affirmative Action but of discrimination and anti-discrimination in general.

You do realize that slavery was over 400 years ago. And the Civil Rights movement was 30 years ago. You know the black men and women that are now old and who were in the movement never play the race card. They just work hard as anyone else, and they know that not everything is about race. Its the yonger crowd thats using the race card.

Um.

Bullshit.

Slavery ended in 1864. It lasted over 400 years.

The next 100 years was marked by segregation, lynchings, and other fun times for people of color.

The Civil Rights movement started much more than 30 years ago and it has not ended.

The ignorance of individuals such as yourself show we still have a long way to go.

Um.

Bullshit.

Slavery ended in 1864. It lasted over 400 years.

The next 100 years was marked by segregation, lynchings, and other fun times for people of color.

The Civil Rights movement started much more than 30 years ago and it has not ended.

The ignorance of individuals such as yourself show we still have a long way to go.

Well guess what, I don't owe anything to the black race, and the black race don't own me anything.

Well guess what, I don't owe anything to the black race, and the black race don't own me anything.

Don't worry. "[T]he black race" don't want to "own" you, anyway.

Well first off I would tell the American public that its not the government job to gurantee you a job. You yourself need to find out why your not getting hired. Now in the case that it is racisim in which sometimes it is. Then hey the company should pay the consequences for hiring base on race. See Affirmative Action does nothing. All it does is promotes the same hiring base on race, but on a diffrent set of race. It just doesn't make any sense. Now I do like the part of Affirmative Action that forces the same consquences for employees. Like lets say you have two employees, one white, and one black. If they both steal something, then they have to be fired the same way. Both of them have to be given the same amount of warning, or pay cut etc. That part of affirmative action I do like. I just don't like the way they want the companies to hire people. Like I said, when it comes to hiring, credentials should be at the top of the list.
You have posted a long response but have not answered the question that I posed to you in post # 138 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9580920&postcount=138).

Perhaps you want the large gulf between employment for whites, blacks and Hispanics to be even greater than it already is?

I simply fail to comprehend why we, exemplary citizens, ought to be imposed upon and be deficieries, merely due to the government's evident ineptitude at ameliorating the inner city areas, when, to be frank, I lack both the inclination or compassion to care for the inner city. Furthermore, why ought we not to simply intern and encircle the inner cities, they, for the most part, are inhabitated by degenerates, undesirables and essentially deplorable individuals, who simply contrive to devolve society.

You mean rich citizens? Crime is created not because of bad men or women but because of bad enviroments. A government shouldn't care that you have no social conscience, the way foward is not to keep people together in poverty where you are just creating problem or problem. The solution is clear, it's up to you to decide if you are responsible enough to accept it. Kind of like Americans and gas.

Because in this matter I have experienced discrimination on a level that a white person can't because of the very fact that they are white. That's my point, that's what my point as been from the very beginning, not the other way around. People dismissing what I go through every day as a falsehood pisses me off to the extreme. THAT'S what I was addressing.

been to new orleans and i found black people quite racist and quite hostile.
went to a "Popey's" and they would not serve me!!! was the only white person in there and it took 30mins to get served whereas every black person got dserved more or less straight away, even if they came in after me. good chicken though.

Reacism in general seemed to abound.

Nope, when i go to Coventry, barely any of the minorities working in the shops can speak english. The same goes for birmingham. I think there should be a test on it (english) before there granted citizenship, like the US does.

would that apply to all immigrants? and would that work within the EU. if a brit wants to move to spain and live, he needs to learn the lingo? i'm all for that!!!

You mean rich citizens? Crime is created not because of bad men or women but because of bad enviroments. A government shouldn't care that you have no social conscience, the way foward is not to keep people together in poverty where you are just creating problem or problem. The solution is clear, it's up to you to decide if you are responsible enough to accept it. Kind of like Americans and gas.

However, why impose degenerates and social detractors upon those who are abiding of the law, and contribute far in excess of what they are proffered by the government. The afflent are taxed exorbiantly, and yet are further imposed upon by the insertion of households whose demeanour does not befit their new environments, and who detract and degrade from such regions, and simply further the cancer that is crime, immigrants and degenerates, throughout all of Britain.

I simply fail to comprehend why we, exemplary citizens, ought to be imposed upon and be deficieries, merely due to the government's evident ineptitude at ameliorating the inner city areas, when, to be frank, I lack both the inclination or compassion to care for the inner city. Furthermore, why ought we not to simply intern and encircle the inner cities, they, for the most part, are inhabitated by degenerates, undesirables and essentially deplorable individuals, who simply contrive to devolve society.

Wow, isn't it convenient that all the society-hating degenrates move into poor areas...

I'm all in favour of immigrants speaking the local language, but don't kid yourself that it is somehow them being spiteful to you. It is far more their problem than yours. So you have to buy a newspaper from someone who speaks bad English...ouch. To them it's a huge limitation in opportunities. When an immigrant community is isolated from the rest of society it's pretty much guaranteed that it's because of hostility from the majority, not the other way around.

However, why impose degenerates and social detractors upon those who are abiding of the law, and contribute far in excess of what they are proffered by the government. The afflent are taxed exorbiantly, and yet are further imposed upon by the insertion of households whose demeanour does not befit their new environments, and who detract and degrade from such regions, and simply further the cancer that is crime, immigrants and degenerates, throughout all of Britain.

I agree here, there are certain estates for people who cause trouble, there they should stay (liviing wise) its a "not in my back yard" mentality but, theres plenty of empty back yards in citys. John prescott wants to build hundreds of thousends of homes in the london greenbelt, when theres acres of brownfield sites in london,


And fot the guy chris was replying to, how do you know what causes crime? the left and right wing ideoligies have different reasons for crime and poverty.

Wow, isn't it convenient that all the society-hating degenrates move into poor areas...

I'm all in favour of immigrants speaking the local language, but don't kid yourself that it is somehow them being spiteful to you. It is far more their problem than yours. So you have to buy a newspaper from someone who speaks bad English...ouch. To them it's a huge limitation in opportunities. When an immigrant community is isolated from the rest of society it's pretty much guaranteed that it's because of hostility from the majority, not the other way around.

I somehow doubt it, the most part of immigrant communities develop introspective, insular and xenophobic traits due to an aversion to the culture of the society that so misguidedly accepetd them.

Wow, isn't it convenient that all the society-hating degenrates move into poor areas...

I'm all in favour of immigrants speaking the local language, but don't kid yourself that it is somehow them being spiteful to you. It is far more their problem than yours. So you have to buy a newspaper from someone who speaks bad English...ouch. To them it's a huge limitation in opportunities. When an immigrant community is isolated from the rest of society it's pretty much guaranteed that it's because of hostility from the majority, not the other way around.

No immigrants choose to live in the same place, eg Coventry, there actually arnt many immigrant in britain as people may think but, they all clupm together.

Buying a paper, not a huge problem, except if he cant count english money, but when im trying to buy a TV, or in sainsburys i ask about a special offer and they look at me and say nothing,

That and, in our public schools now, a lot of the students and pupils cant speak english , and no, there not foreign students.

But in agreeing that immigrants must know the local language, would you agree citizenship only being granted upon passing an english test to be mandatory? like the USA has?

would that apply to all immigrants? and would that work within the EU. if a brit wants to move to spain and live, he needs to learn the lingo? i'm all for that!!!

This is kind of different, the english people in spain own property there, immigrants dont.

I do beleive english people should learn some spanish , if not fluetly , but english people arnt going there to have jobs (mostly) Whereas immigrants come here mainly for jobs, and the safety from war.

I do sympathise with the immigrants, and there welcome to stay in my eyes, provided they speak english and our culture and way of life isnt affected.

No immigrants choose to live in the same place, eg Coventry, there actually arnt many immigrant in britain as people may think but, they all clupm together.

Buying a paper, not a huge problem, except if he cant count english money, but when im trying to buy a TV, or in sainsburys i ask about a special offer and they look at me and say nothing,

That and, in our public schools now, a lot of the students and pupils cant speak english , and no, there not foreign students.

But in agreeing that immigrants must know the local language, would you agree citizenship only being granted upon passing an english test to be mandatory? like the USA has?

I'm from New Zealand, and my opinions are based on the experience we have had with immigrants, which seems to be more positive than the UK. Sure, immigrants have clumped here as well, I happen to live in a suburb with a huge number of them. But here immigrants tend to integrate well with our culture. So if immigrants adapt differently to different countries it seems that the country is the more important aspect.

As for learning English, our system of immigration is based on points. Job skills, money and speaking English all gain you points towards entry. On top of that we accept some refugees and their families. I think our system works pretty well, a few opportunist politicians don't like it but overall we're better off with immigration.

I'm from New Zealand, and my opinions are based on the experience we have had with immigrants, which seems to be more positive than the UK. Sure, immigrants have clumped here as well, I happen to live in a suburb with a huge number of them. But here immigrants tend to integrate well with our culture. So if immigrants adapt differently to different countries it seems that the country is the more important aspect.

As for learning English, our system of immigration is based on points. Job skills, money and speaking English all gain you points towards entry. On top of that we accept some refugees and their families. I think our system works pretty well, a few opportunist politicians don't like it but overall we're better off with immigration.

I assure you that its impossible to be worse off than any Britain, if Saddam stood trial in the old Bailey, he'd have considerbly more legal rights than I would.

its not about race directly, its about class. Rich people could afford to get out soon and poor people couldn't. The reason it appears to be race related is because most of the rich people were white and most of the poor black

I'm from New Zealand, and my opinions are based on the experience we have had with immigrants, which seems to be more positive than the UK. Sure, immigrants have clumped here as well, I happen to live in a suburb with a huge number of them. But here immigrants tend to integrate well with our culture. So if immigrants adapt differently to different countries it seems that the country is the more important aspect.

As for learning English, our system of immigration is based on points. Job skills, money and speaking English all gain you points towards entry. On top of that we accept some refugees and their families. I think our system works pretty well, a few opportunist politicians don't like it but overall we're better off with immigration.

Well, New Zealand has got it right, the point system is excellent, as is australias.

If britian had your system of immigration, id be happy.

Well, New Zealand has got it right, the point system is excellent, as is australias.

If britian had your system of immigration, id be happy.

It seems that Britain has a very small proportion of immigrants compared to New Zealand, it should be able to do a lot better incorporating them into society.

It seems that Britain has a very small proportion of immigrants compared to New Zealand, it should be able to do a lot better incorporating them into society.

You'd think that but, nope. Which is a shame.

It seems that Britain has a very small proportion of immigrants compared to New Zealand, it should be able to do a lot better incorporating them into society.

We don't seem to be able to do though, we are incompetant

You mean rich citizens? Crime is created not because of bad men or women but because of bad enviroments. A government shouldn't care that you have no social conscience, the way foward is not to keep people together in poverty where you are just creating problem or problem. The solution is clear, it's up to you to decide if you are responsible enough to accept it. Kind of like Americans and gas.

Yea, there are no bad men or women, uh huh.

Charles Manson
19 Hijackers of 9/11
The Zodiac Killer
Eric Rudolph
Dick Cheney
Hillary Clinton

Need I go on?

Beside what do you suggest we do about the ghettos and the class of citizens that are in jail for crimes that THEY commit? What do you just want to give them flowers and just hug them?

its not about race directly, its about class. Rich people could afford to get out soon and poor people couldn't. The reason it appears to be race related is because most of the rich people were white and most of the poor black
Exactly.

Bush has rich black friends that are rich. Condy has rich white friends that are rich. I bet Condy has more white friends than black friends, because there is generally are larger proportion of high class white folk than high class black folk.

This is all about class. If instead of seeing poor black people all over the news, it was lots of poor hick-ish hillbilly white folk, no one would say anything about race or class, which is why I'm glad that's not the case. With the predominately black victims, it starts out as a race issue, but can be turned into a class issue--an issue that needs to be dealt with.

If it were poor white people, no one would care one way or the other, no one would blame anyone for not caring about the poor, etc., but the rich white democrats are using the race card against the rich white republicans in an act of political opportunism. Little do they realize that they're also using the class card...

Yea, there are no bad men or women, uh huh.

Charles Manson
19 Hijackers of 9/11
The Zodiac Killer
Eric Rudolph
Dick Cheney
Hillary Clinton

Need I go on?

Beside what do you suggest we do about the ghettos and the class of citizens that are in jail for crimes that THEY commit? What do you just want to give them flowers and just hug them?
I don't recognize Zodiac Killer or Eric Rudolph. I'll assume Zodiac Killer is a murderer. That said, I don't understand why Cheney and Clinton belong on that list with the others, and possibly Rudolph, depending on what he's done that's so evil.

However, it can be argued that the people on that list that are truly "bad" (and not people that you just don't agree with the politics of) are that way because of the environment in which they live.

You seem to have based your list entirely on what the people have done, rather than look at what may have caused them to do it--which ignores the premise of the argument of the person to which you're responding.

I don't recognize Zodiac Killer or Eric Rudolph. I'll assume Zodiac Killer is a murderer. That said, I don't understand why Cheney and Clinton belong on that list with the others, and possibly Rudolph, depending on what he's done that's so evil.

However, it can be argued that the people on that list that are truly "bad" (and not people that you just don't agree with the politics of) are that way because of the environment in which they live.

You seem to have based your list entirely on what the people have done, rather than look at what may have caused them to do it--which ignores the premise of the argument of the person to which you're responding.

You do realize that there are some people out there, no matter how good of an upbrining they've had, turn out to be bad? The Zodiac Killer was a guy or a girl that killed over 33 people, maybe even more. He/she never been caught.

You can make that argument for the 19 hijackers since they were programmed that way. Eric Rudolph was the one who blew up Abortion clinics and then did the Atlanta Olympic bombings etc.

There was one serial killer (forget his name) that came from a good neighborhood, good family. He was very successful in life. He molested and killed boys. I think it was more of the fact that he was just fucked up in the head than his enviorment.

Look, the reason I don't connect crime to the enviorment is well, because of free will or choice. You can choose to either do a crime, or not do a crime. You can either choose to live in the ghettos, or you can work your ass off and try to get a better life. See this is another part of the whole racial thing I do not like. There are people out there that are actually telling the poor, the ghetto kids etc, that this is the best its going to get. I mean how the hell is that suspose to help anyone? But I've seen rags to middle class or rich stories all the time. Those people figured that it wasn't worth it to get shot at or get thrown in jail, so they worked their ass off and got out of the ghetto. What we need to do is present that to the poor and ghetto kids as a viable option, instead of telling them "This is as good as its going to get for you."

Well, it also doesn't help to blame the poor for their situation and say it is 100% their responsibility to end inequality, based on rags-to-riches stories that are the exception rather than the rule. Some people have done it, but it does not follow that everyone can. Raising out of poverty requires opportunities and luck that not everyone has access to.

Positive images that better life is possible, well that's just fine if it's actually realistic. Otherwise, such a belief is only a myth to reinforce inequality by saying that the rich and poor are all getting exactly what they have earned. This means that poor communities need help, while poor individuals should also help themselves.

Well, it also doesn't help to blame the poor for their situation and say it is 100% their responsibility to end inequality, based on rags-to-riches stories that are the exception rather than the rule. Some people have done it, but it does not follow that everyone can. Raising out of poverty requires opportunities and luck that not everyone has access to.

Positive images that better life is possible, well that's just fine if it's actually realistic. Otherwise, such a belief is only a myth to reinforce inequality by saying that the rich and poor are all getting exactly what they have earned. This means that poor communities need help, while poor individuals should also help themselves.

And how do we help them without turning into a socialist/communist state, or putting a burden on the taxpayers?

Well, it also doesn't help to blame the poor for their situation and say it is 100% their responsibility to end inequality, based on rags-to-riches stories that are the exception rather than the rule. Some people have done it, but it does not follow that everyone can. Raising out of poverty requires opportunities and luck that not everyone has access to.

Positive images that better life is possible, well that's just fine if it's actually realistic. Otherwise, such a belief is only a myth to reinforce inequality by saying that the rich and poor are all getting exactly what they have earned. This means that poor communities need help, while poor individuals should also help themselves.

Well, this is what tips me toward capatalism, the oppertunity is there if you want it, you need to be lucky, intelligent, and know how the system works.

Hard work im afraid, isnt the one thing to get you out of poverty, but, anyone can get out of poverty, i was born into poverty, my dad started a business and is now a millionaire, anyone can do it. But, better finacial education is needed in schools so people understand debt and credit cards better.

And fot the guy chris was replying to, how do you know what causes crime? the left and right wing ideoligies have different reasons for crime and poverty.

I was arguing poverty causes crime, if you are going to argue against that, your next argument should be against gravity. It would probably be more logical.

And how do we help them without turning into a socialist/communist state, or putting a burden on the taxpayers?

We put a burden on the taxpayers, I don't see why that should be a no-go area.

I was arguing poverty causes crime, if you are going to argue against that, your next argument should be against gravity. It would probably be more logical.

And the oil barons whom commit international crimes to make a few more billion dollars a year?

I think poverty is a cause of crime, its not THE cause of crime.

And how do we help them without turning into a socialist/communist state, or putting a burden on the taxpayers?

Well, this is what tips me toward capatalism, the oppertunity is there if you want it, you need to be lucky, intelligent, and know how the system works.

Hard work im afraid, isnt the one thing to get you out of poverty, but, anyone can get out of poverty, i was born into poverty, my dad started a business and is now a millionaire, anyone can do it. But, better finacial education is needed in schools so people understand debt and credit cards better.

What tips me away from pure capitalism is that you just have to be born to at least middle class parents and chances are you have little to worry about. If you're smart and work hard you'll almost certainly have lots of money, if you're lazy you'll still be comfortable. And that situation is called, bizarrely, economic freedom. So in answer to Oak Trail, I don't see a problem with a modest burden on taxpayers, or in a degree of socialism.

What tips me away from pure capitalism is that you just have to be born to at least middle class parents and chances are you have little to worry about. If you're smart and work hard you'll almost certainly have lots of money, if you're lazy you'll still be comfortable.

So what, he got lucky in the draw of life, he has an adavantage, get over it! make yourself middle class.

So, simply your jealous some people have it easier then you because they got lucky? And youll take it away if you could because your jealous... right......

You do realize that there are some people out there, no matter how good of an upbrining they've had, turn out to be bad? The Zodiac Killer was a guy or a girl that killed over 33 people, maybe even more. He/she never been caught.

You can make that argument for the 19 hijackers since they were programmed that way. Eric Rudolph was the one who blew up Abortion clinics and then did the Atlanta Olympic bombings etc.

There was one serial killer (forget his name) that came from a good neighborhood, good family. He was very successful in life. He molested and killed boys. I think it was more of the fact that he was just fucked up in the head than his enviorment.

Look, the reason I don't connect crime to the enviorment is well, because of free will or choice. You can choose to either do a crime, or not do a crime. You can either choose to live in the ghettos, or you can work your ass off and try to get a better life. See this is another part of the whole racial thing I do not like. There are people out there that are actually telling the poor, the ghetto kids etc, that this is the best its going to get. I mean how the hell is that suspose to help anyone? But I've seen rags to middle class or rich stories all the time. Those people figured that it wasn't worth it to get shot at or get thrown in jail, so they worked their ass off and got out of the ghetto. What we need to do is present that to the poor and ghetto kids as a viable option, instead of telling them "This is as good as its going to get for you."

No one is born evil, not Aldof Hitler, not terrorists. Their actions were caused by the enviroments they lived in. As criminals that we're are talking about live in our enviroments, our societies if they commit crimes we have failed as well as them. Of course it's people fault if they make bad decisions but if you think about it, what good does just accepting that do when you are trying to manage the situation? 'He commited the crime, his decision, he didn't have to' - it doesn't work. Try more education opportunities, activities to stop youths going into crime, financial incentives to stay on at school, increased welfare.

Yes, you make decisions not to commit crime, but if you had been adopted (just go with this :D ) as a baby into a poor area you can't tell me what decisions you would make. Our enviroment changes the type of person we become. If we blame the individual, we have to blame ourselves for allowing them to become this particular individual. If you want to manage crime, just chucking people in a pit of poverty and crime is only going to create a lot more of the individuals you don't want - even if it does throw up the odd rags to riches story - responsible management isn't about blame. If it's a problem, it's everyone's problem.

And the oil barons whom commit international crimes to make a few more billion dollars a year?

I think poverty is a cause of crime, its not THE cause of crime.

Which is why the statement "poverty causes crime" wasn't "only poverty causes crime" :)

So what, he got lucky in the draw of life, he has an adavantage, get over it! make yourself middle class.

So, simply your jealous some people have it easier then you because they got lucky? And youll take it away if you could because your jealous... right......

Too late, I already am middle class. I recognise that I have it easier than other people because I got lucky. Not saying I believe in equality, because I also recognise that some people are lazy or just untalented and will just not take opportunities or be productive. What I do believe is that there should be minimum standards of living, and the majority should not be disadvantaged for a few obscenely wealthy people. I think that with more reasonable living standards for the poor, and with genuine instead of mythical chances to move up in society, crime would be reduced.

Oh and I just LOVE TheBlessedChris' implicaion that the poor are degenerates and generally awful people whilst the rich are hard-working and fantastically warm and wonderful characters :)

We put a burden on the taxpayers, I don't see why that should be a no-go area.

Its a no-go area because I am a taxpayers, and I already have a portion of the money that I earned through hard work taken out of my paycheck, and I would like to say what happens with it. I mean why couldn't we just have chartiable organizations?

When I said "kill all the racists" that was sarcasm. When I said "stop them from teaching racist bullshit to their kids", I meant stop teaching them stuff like "All blacks will rob you, so shoot them first," "Jews are only there for themselves, so don't befriend them," and "Anybody who isn't white is evil for not being white. No matter how stupid that seems." Kids listen to their parents a good majority of the time. A kid that is constantly fed racist bullshit will grow up to be a racist. I think we can all agree that racists are a blight on our society.

There's no good way to enforce it, sadly, without it turning into an Orwellian parody of American life. Unfortunately, some people out there think like Whitey McWhiteguy or whatever, except not sarcastic and more "grab your gun, we're goin' Negro-huntin'! Yeehaw!"

P.S. I still say the best solution to all of our problems is nuke ourselves into oblivion. No more people = no more people to make problems.

Its a no-go area because I am a taxpayers, and I already have a portion of the money that I earned through hard work taken out of my paycheck, and I would like to say what happens with it. I mean why couldn't we just have chartiable organizations?

You have a vote.

You also may need help yourself someday.

But, you'll continue to rant. I already showed your understanding of race and anti-discrimination laws was flatly wrong, but you keep yapping.

Its a no-go area because I am a taxpayers, and I already have a portion of the money that I earned through hard work taken out of my paycheck, and I would like to say what happens with it. I mean why couldn't we just have chartiable organizations?

You vote. You have no more additional say than that unless you get elected.

I saw the worst of it a couple of hours ago. I usually don't watch television but I bothered to watch the hurricane news AKA Morons R Us.

MoronA, "You can't talk about anything in this country withouttalking about race."
Hey buddy I talk about everything in this country and race is near the bottom of the list. Generally when discussing anything bringing up race is an outright attempt to derail the conversation and abandon common sense.

MoronB, "The fact that it happened at the end of the month was signifigant financial hardship to many poorer blacks. Those living from paycheck to paycheck are especially hard hit"
Apparently the lady has never lived paycheck to paycheck. Thankfully I have and can educate her some. The end of the month generally means that the most capital is available. You see rent is usually due at the third or the fifth so all the capital from that month saved up for rent is available and at hand. The only people who are better off at the beginning of the month are welfare recipients because the checks come out on the first. Even the unemployed are better off as unemployment comes out weekly so they are in the same boat as those living check to check.
Of course it would be racist to impky that welfare recipients are black. Unless you are a black politico who's never had to live paycheck to paycheck who is trying to get political leverage out of a natuaral disaster. The it's perfectly OK!