NationStates Jolt Archive

Just to see where you stand, assuming it's down to two candidates. Both nearly identical on the issues. One is a Black Woman the other a white male, who has your vote?

Pretend they are both have the exact same views and it is a general election.

The Democrat.

The one most socially liberal.

Oh, and two candidates of "identical views" is something I've never experienced, since ours is a multi-party nation, and we vote for parties and not people... and not presidents, either, so, I really can't say anything here, really, but, has that truly ever stopped me before?

The Democrat.
It's a hypothetical, maybe the Republicans all died in a massive fire of irony and they are both Democrats...

Pretend they are both have the exact same views and it is a general election.

The better public speaker.

The one most socially liberal.

Oh, and two candidates of "identical views" is something I've never experienced, since ours is a multi-party nation, and we vote for parties and not people...
Refer to my post above this one ^
|
|

Whoever connected the most to my Xtreme In-your-face urban teen culture. I'm guessing the white male.

Just to see where you stand, assuming it's down to two candidates. Both nearly identical on the issues. One is a Black Woman the other a white male, who has your vote?

Depends on who it is, what their politics are, etc. I'd vote for the person who I feel could do the best job and was most in line with my political philosophy.

Not in this century :D

I choose another option: I am an American and I'd vote for the best candidate.

Stop pussy-fotting people, this hypothetical isn't intended to be easy.

This thread sure got fucked fast.

I choose another option: I am an American and I'd vote for the best candidate.
IGNORED: There is intentionally no middle road. The only thing you have go on is their gender and race.

IGNORED: There is intentionally no middle road. The only thing you have go on is their gender and race.
So they both have the same stance on everything?

So they both have the same stance on everything?

Yea, it's hypothetical.

This is an incredibly silly question, but since you asked, I would pick one at random.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I would just not vote, as the vote would be pointless anyways.

IGNORED: There is intentionally no middle road. The only thing you have go on is their gender and race.

Well, then, the Black woman, since that hasn't happened yet. OK!?! Sheesh! :rolleyes:

So they both have the same stance on everything?
Yup. It's my purely hypothetical universe and they have the exact same stance.

If I really didn't see a difference I wouldn't vote. Voting based solely on gender and race is stupid, racist, and sexist. That applies to both people voting for the black female and the white male. It's no more acceptable to be racist towards white males then black females.

Thank the Lord that we have the Electoral College.

Well, then, the Black woman, since that hasn't happened yet. OK!?! Sheesh! :rolleyes:
That's all we ask. Come on people

Yea, it's hypothetical.
The black woman, then. I'd prefer her to either dress good or have Queen Latifah-esque boobs, but even if she looks like trash, she'll look better than the man. I mean, have we ever had a good looking president? I think we need to go back to Calvin Coolige to find one.

The black woman, then. I'd prefer her to either dress good or have Queen Latifah-esque boobs, but even if she looks like trash, she'll look better than the man. I mean, have we ever had a good looking president? I think we need to go back to Calvin Coolige to find one.

JFK was a fox! I'd be all Marilyn on that!

And, umm, that's sort of it...

If I really didn't see a difference I wouldn't vote. Voting based solely on gender and race is stupid, racist, and sexist. That applies to both people voting for the black female and the white male. It's no more acceptable to be racist towards white males then black females.
Pick option 3 then.

I;d pick the white male because our country has an 200 year unbroken streak of white male presidents and it's always good to have unbroken streaks lying around.

JFK was a fox! I'd be all Marilyn on that!

And, umm, that's sort of it...
He was nothing special I think, though he did surround himself with some beautiful women. Anyhow, few people know that JFK was a very sickly man, and he was an expert at hiding it from TV.

He was nothing special I think, though he did surround himself with some beautiful women. Anyhow, few people know that JFK was a very sickly man, and he was an expert at hiding it from TV.

Compare him to Nixon or, shudder, Reagan. He doesn't look all that bad, then, does he? He was young - sickly, or not, his crank obviously still worked, so there'd be no Bob Dole creepiness there.

Pick option 3 then.

I took that to mean that I never vote. I almost always vote, but in this hypothetical I wouldn't. With that said I went ahead and picked option 3.

Ha ha ha ha ha. It doesn't matter how we vote, the electorial votes count, not the popular votes (for presidential elections), and the latter needn't have an effect on the former. That is why voting is pointless (or atleast in my opinion).

I wonder why each would bother running against the other if they really had identical views.

I might be lame and vote for the most likeable one. Then again, President of the U.S. isn't a job I'd wish on someone I liked. Unless they really wanted it.

Compare him to Nixon or, shudder, Reagan. He doesn't look all that bad, then, does he? He was young - sickly, or not, his crank obviously still worked, so there'd be no Bob Dole creepiness there.
Well, okay, he wasn't creepy. Actually, some say that he won the election because he looked better than Nixon at the first ever televised debate.

I wonder why each would bother running against the other if they really had identical views.
It might be because hypotheticals aren't real...

Ha ha ha ha ha. It doesn't matter how we vote, the electorial votes count, not the popular votes (for presidential elections), and the latter needn't have an effect on the former. That is why voting is pointless (or atleast in my opinion).

No, it only means that certain people's votes are more valuable then others. Being a student in Pennsylvania and a resident of Ohio I had the unfair advantage of being able to pick where to register. I picked Ohio. My vote was more valuable then the vast majority of the country because of it.

Well, okay, he wasn't creepy. Actually, some say that he won the election because he looked better than Nixon at the first ever televised debate.

Who, Reagan the Leather Bag?

I wonder why each would bother running against the other if they really had identical views.

I might be lame and vote for the most likeable one. Then again, President of the U.S. isn't a job I'd wish on someone I liked. Unless they really wanted it.

$400,000 a year is pretty good, you get to control an army, pick the cabnet, give pardens, control an army, dissolve congress (if you desire), tax deductions, and can pick supreme court judges.

$400,000 a year is pretty good, you get to control an army, pick the cabnet, give pardens, control an army, dissolve congress (if you desire), tax deductions, and can pick supreme court judges.
Let's not forget the grand daddy of all prizes... Air Force 1!!!!

Who, Reagan the Leather Bag?
No, JFK. Though Reagan did look better than Mondale, and tied with Carter.

I'd vote Libertarian.

Hey, if there's no difference between the candidates politically or in terms of leadership style, there's no difference between the candidates. You might be able to convince me to vote for the black female just because white males don't have a great track record in America, but that's about all I can think of.

No, JFK. Though Reagan did look better than Mondale, and tied with Carter.

Carter was cuter than Reagan. Still is.

Carter was cuter than Reagan. Still is.
Carter looks like my one aunt. Reagan didn't look great, but at least he looked good for his age.

Carter looks like my one aunt. Reagan didn't look great, but at least he looked good for his age.

Please, Carter still looks good for his age. Reagan was a victim of "rays today, raisins tomorrow".

Please, Carter still looks good for his age. Reagan was a victim of "rays today, raisins tomorrow".
Whatever. My alltime favorite looking president, however, is Teddy Roosevelt. Maybe it's the moustache. What other US president has had a moustache like his? You can brush your nails in that thing.

I couldn't say. It depends on which one would promise to keep my RKBA and get the constitution back on track, and finnaly do what's needed in the WOT.

Assumeing that I consider them to be exactly equal in competance, I would vote for the black female because there could be beneficial externalities to having a black female president. These externalities could include a society with less sexual and racial discrimination. This would obviously benefit the economy.

If it's Condoleeza Rice, in either case you'll be voting for a White Male.

Great thread Rotovia, and I see you copied my style in the poll questions, and made it a public poll, but I am not offended, actually I feel honord.

I say again great thread Rotovia.
La Habana Cuba.

Just to see where you stand, assuming it's down to two candidates. Both nearly identical on the issues. One is a Black Woman the other a white male, who has your vote?

Well, if it's not Condi Rice, I'll consider the black woman.

I tend to vote along party lines, myself, so...race and sex wouldn't matter to me, I'd vote for whoever was the Democrat...so it's more likely my vote would be for the black woman, since the Dems are far more likely than the Reps to make a black woman their standard-bearer for President.

Like I said, as long as the black woman is NOT Condoleezza Rice, I'll consider her.

It's a hypothetical, maybe the Republicans all died in a massive fire of irony and they are both Democrats...

If only they would....

IGNORED: There is intentionally no middle road. The only thing you have go on is their gender and race.

Gender and race are of no importance to me. I vote Party-line Democrat.

As I said, earlier, the only way the black woman gets NO CHANCE of getting my vote is if she's Condi Rice.

I would vote for the white guy because I just trust guys more than I trust women with an awesome amount of responsibility. The black woman might want to get revenge on some whites and men.

Ha ha ha ha ha. It doesn't matter how we vote, the electorial votes count, not the popular votes (for presidential elections), and the latter needn't have an effect on the former. That is why voting is pointless (or atleast in my opinion).

Well, actually, I'd say that it is WHAT DIEBOLD WANTS that really counts. But I will still vote, even if I DON'T trust the damn machines.

I would vote for the white guy because I just trust guys more than I trust women with an awesome amount of responsibility. The black woman might want to get revenge on some whites and men.
Gee, now I WONDER why that might be....NOT!!! and I wonder why I have no sympathy for this point of view...suck it up, white man, it's time you DID learn to play nice and share.

except for the "white male" bit, sounds like a Hillary vs. Condi set up.

i'de vote for the asian teen

Rotovia, we seem to have started a vote for president trend, I saw two more on the forums, one by a good NS friend of mime, since we exchanged some nice telegrams
back and forth.

We should feel honored.

Everyone must be chocked, La Habana Cuba has some NS friends on Nationstates?

Gender and race are of no importance to me. I vote Party-line Democrat.

As I said, earlier, the only way the black woman gets NO CHANCE of getting my vote is if she's Condi Rice.

Agreed, educated black women have no business expecting support from the democrats as they have obviously decided they are going to act white. I mean, heaven forbid they should get an education and think for themselves

Make that shocked, actually I am shocked.

Assuming all other factors are exactly equal, I'd vote the black woman, because we've never had a president with either of those qualities before.

Where's the option: "Either one. It doesn't matter if they're nearly identical anyway."?
:P
I'm not American, and I flipped a coin. White guy won the coin toss. Lucky shmuck.

Pretend they are both have the exact same views and it is a general election.

Well I was going to say it depends on the views and issues... But if they have the same views, then it would mainly depend on how each came off, like their personalities. Preferably someone who is more respectful, and willing to take the good ideas from both sides, but soundly reject the more radical ideas on both sides.

Assumeing that I consider them to be exactly equal in competance, I would vote for the black female because there could be beneficial externalities to having a black female president. These externalities could include a society with less sexual and racial discrimination. This would obviously benefit the economy.
And the value to foreign opinion... The image to many black youth who feel disenfranchised... A generation of young women growing up under a strong feamle leader, etc.

And the value to foreign opinion... The image to many black youth who feel disenfranchised... A generation of young women growing up under a strong feamle leader, etc.

ahh BUT what if the black female President turned out to be a bad leader? What if she broke down in the face of a disaster instead of taking charge?

Honestly this is a stupid poll, I mean your basically asking us to judge someone based on their sex and the color of their skin. That is sexist and racist, and its wrong. I think its time we stop trying to seperate ourselves into groups. I think its time we start coming together as one and stop looking at what on the outside, but whats on the inside.

Well I was going to say it depends on the views and issues... But if they have the same views, then it would mainly depend on how each came off, like their personalities. Preferably someone who is more respectful, and willing to take the good ideas from both sides, but soundly reject the more radical ideas on both sides.
E-X-A-C-T-L-Y T-H-E S-A-M-E

President Ronald Reagan a President I respect and love,
looked good, and looked good for a man his age, he looked like a man on a cake with his suit and tie.

In Honor of President Ronald Reagan, who loved America
his native land.
La Habana Cuba.

ahh BUT what if the black female President turned out to be a bad leader? What if she broke down in the face of a disaster instead of taking charge?

Honestly this is a stupid poll, I mean your basically asking us to judge someone based on their sex and the color of their skin. That is sexist and racist, and its wrong. I think its time we stop trying to seperate ourselves into groups. I think its time we start coming together as one and stop looking at what on the outside, but whats on the inside.
I'm going to break this up, because you are on thing that really annoys me. Attempting to ask a series of directly engagin questions in sequence, in an attempt to win an arguement quickly.

1)I am asking you who you would vote for, your what if is really just irrelivant.
2)I am not basically asking you to judge someone on gender and race, I AM asking you to do just that. Why? Because of the fact that when two people are equal in every other footing I want to see how many people actually think a black female would be inferior to her white male counterpart and vice versa.
3) Clearly we haven't stopped taking it into account, the results of this poll are evidence of that.

Since the candidates are all exactly the same, the question is only meaningful to someone with his head up his arse.

A pox on this absurd poll, and the person who made it.

I would vote for the black woman for a number of reasons, but I think the biggest one is that since it would be such a difference from the 'norm' so far in the country she would be trying harder to do the right thing, instead of the rich-spoiled-white-boy syndrome we've had with the last few presidents in charge. Having someone up there whose going to put effort into doing the best job possible makes a huge difference, even when everyone agrees on all issues and has the same stances and etc.

I'm going to break this up, because you are on thing that really annoys me. Attempting to ask a series of directly engagin questions in sequence, in an attempt to win an arguement quickly.

1)I am asking you who you would vote for, your what if is really just irrelivant.
2)I am not basically asking you to judge someone on gender and race, I AM asking you to do just that. Why? Because of the fact that when two people are equal in every other footing I want to see how many people actually think a black female would be inferior to her white male counterpart and vice versa.
3) Clearly we haven't stopped taking it into account, the results of this poll are evidence of that.

Well I would vote for the white guy because I think he'd handle disaster and tragedies better than women. Women are too emotional and they can break down when confronted with something like Katrina or 9/11. We don't need a President sobbing like a baby on National Television. We need a President to go kick some ass.

I would vote for the black woman for a number of reasons, but I think the biggest one is that since it would be such a difference from the 'norm' so far in the country she would be trying harder to do the right thing, instead of the rich-spoiled-white-boy syndrome we've had with the last few presidents in charge. Having someone up there whose going to put effort into doing the best job possible makes a huge difference, even when everyone agrees on all issues and has the same stances and etc.

Ahh but what if the black woman is rich too? Wouldn't we still have the rich-spoiled-black-girl problem then?

I'd go for the black female, based on hormones alone. I have that jungle fever.

Since the candidates are all exactly the same, the question is only meaningful to someone with his head up his arse.

A pox on this absurd poll, and the person who made it.

Yup.

I'd vote for the white male just because you already know what the poll writer wants.

Ahh but what if the black woman is rich too? Wouldn't we still have the rich-spoiled-black-girl problem then?

Gucci girl.

Well I would vote for the white guy because I think he'd handle disaster and tragedies better than women. Women are too emotional and they can break down when confronted with something like Katrina or 9/11. We don't need a President sobbing like a baby on National Television. We need a President to go kick some ass.


You mean...like Bush has done so far with Katrina?? Hell, even his BUDDIES and the Freepers are giving Bush hell on this one...even the Corporate Media is giving Bush hell...and deservedly so!

He isn't handling this one worth jack-shit.

ahh BUT what if the black female President turned out to be a bad leader? What if she broke down in the face of a disaster instead of taking charge?

Honestly this is a stupid poll, I mean your basically asking us to judge someone based on their sex and the color of their skin. That is sexist and racist, and its wrong. I think its time we stop trying to seperate ourselves into groups. I think its time we start coming together as one and stop looking at what on the outside, but whats on the inside.
What if she did? If she was surrounded with competent people at FEMA, etc...it would actually be nice to see a Pres actually show some real emotion and sadness at the loss and tragedy...not the cold smirk of Bush, who hasn't even shed crocodile tears, let alone real ones, over this whole thing yet!

And he and his people have royally fucked the handling of this tragedy...even the Freepers and his buddies at the Corporate Media are climbing his ass.

And even if she did break down and cry, she sure as hell couldn't POSSIBLY have managed this tragedy (Katrina) any worse than Bush has so far!!

And even his BUDDIES are saying so, so it isn't just libs like me looking to take another shot at Bush...when your own buddies turn on you and tell you you've fucked up, then it's really bad.

You mean...like Bush has done so far with Katrina?? Hell, even his BUDDIES and the Freepers are giving Bush hell on this one...even the Corporate Media is giving Bush hell...and deservedly so!

He isn't handling this one worth jack-shit.

Jeez you liberal will blame Bush for everything don't ya? Do you really think Bush has this much control? Don't you think that maybe the mayor of New Orleans or the governer of LA had some sort of control? Its not the President responsibility to be the First Responder. I think its apparent that New Orleans and Louisania did not have a plan A, B, C, D etc. I mean there are around 200 to 300 school buses under water now, and if each of them could hold 50 people. Thats close to 10,000 to 15,000 people being able to ride the bus. There was 8,000 National Guards men on hold in New Orleans that the Governer could've called. He/She could've called on other states to send their National Guards people. Beside these retards aren't helping by shooting at the helicopter that is TRYING to HELP them. They're lucky that they don't get shot back.

I think I should also mention that the Governer of LA is a woman, and she did break down on National Televison blaming the Handicapps and elderly for not following the evacuation orders. Ummm, these people are either handicapped or old. I think its a pretty damn good chance that they couldn't get out if they could. I mean you have control over hundreds of buses, the least you could've done was give them a ride out of New Orleans. The same goes for the poor people.

These are School Buses that could've been used to evacuate the handicapped and elderly.

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,513280,00.jpg

I know that you liberals gets sexually aroused for blaming Bush for things, and trust me, I blame him sometimes too. But this time its not his fault.

Is the black woman Tyra Banks?

What if she did? If she was surrounded with competent people at FEMA, etc...it would actually be nice to see a Pres actually show some real emotion and sadness at the loss and tragedy...not the cold smirk of Bush, who hasn't even shed crocodile tears, let alone real ones, over this whole thing yet!

And he and his people have royally fucked the handling of this tragedy...even the Freepers and his buddies at the Corporate Media are climbing his ass.

And even if she did break down and cry, she sure as hell couldn't POSSIBLY have managed this tragedy (Katrina) any worse than Bush has so far!!

And even his BUDDIES are saying so, so it isn't just libs like me looking to take another shot at Bush...when your own buddies turn on you and tell you you've fucked up, then it's really bad.

Yea, that'll be a good image to send to our country men, soilders and our enemies overseas.

Black Woman President: I'm sorry America..... I did all I could *starts to cry* I failed you alll *cries more* I'm sorry *cries hysterictally.*

Yea thats the image I want to see on national television. I

Jeez Al Quedia sees something like that and all the sudden they think we're a bunch of cry baby pansies. I say we need a president that says

President: On this day, our country was attack. But don't worry America. I will lead the charge on the counter attack on those terrorist SOB. This country will not rest until it kills every single last terrorist. If you are a terrorist, you can bet we're going to put a boot right up your ass. *flips middle finger*

IGNORED: There is intentionally no middle road. The only thing you have go on is their gender and race.

Which is a bunch of BS, since there will never be two candidates with identical views. If you wanted a realistic poll there would at least be Conservative Black Woman, Liberal Black Woman, ect. options for us to pick.

Since, according to this fantasy both sides are identical in every possible way, either I randomly choose the candidate by putting a blindfold on and throwing a dart at both of their pictures on the wall, or don't vote at all if they don't support my view.

your question is not capable of being answered. seeing as how candidates are very rarely identical on the issues, being of two completely different political parties.


if it came down to a black candidate or a white candidate, i'd go with the republican or libertarian(hint hint).


I go with whoever appeals to my interests. skin color is unimportant.

where's that answer?

Black Female - Simply to have a new face in office.

Yea, that'll be a good image to send to our country men, soilders and our enemies overseas.

Black Woman President: I'm sorry America..... I did all I could *starts to cry* I failed you alll *cries more* I'm sorry *cries hysterictally.*

Yea thats the image I want to see on national television. I

Jeez Al Quedia sees something like that and all the sudden they think we're a bunch of cry baby pansies. I say we need a president that says

President: On this day, our country was attack. But don't worry America. I will lead the charge on the counter attack on those terrorist SOB. This country will not rest until it kills every single last terrorist. If you are a terrorist, you can bet we're going to put a boot right up your ass. *flips middle finger*


So you want an insolent, 17-year-old white boy president?

So you want an insolent, 17-year-old white boy president?

Hey if hes willing to show the country that he can lead us and in face of disaster he won't have an emotional breakdown, then I"m all for him. Look theres a time for crying and then theres not a time for it. When you got millions of people looking to you for leadership. You don't need to cry on National Television. It sends the wrong image and it shows you unable to lead and it shows you as a weak person.

I would vote for the white male. I feel if we had a black woman put in, on the fact that she was a deviation from the norm, she might be pushed to break into new frontiers, and I like steady progress. I wouldn't mind a black, or a woman president, or both, but I vote based on issues.

Then again, it matters what the issues are, if I didnt like them, I might want someone who would deviate from them.

Boo ya Rotovia, I beat your question ^_^

*Sings the doom song*

So you want an insolent, 17-year-old white boy president?

I would like to be the president, at least some day. The sooner the better, though.

Hey if hes willing to show the country that he can lead us and in face of disaster he won't have an emotional breakdown, then I"m all for him. Look theres a time for crying and then theres not a time for it. When you got millions of people looking to you for leadership. You don't need to cry on National Television. It sends the wrong image and it shows you unable to lead and it shows you as a weak person.

Don't assume that a woman would cry on national tv after anything bad happened. A 17 year old has more of a chance of breaking down.

Don't assume that a woman would cry on national tv after anything bad happened. A 17 year old has more of a chance of breaking down.

Oh Please, I've seen women cry over TV shows, I even seen one cry over road kill. Don't tell me that a woman won't cry on National Television.

A 17 year old has more of a chance of breaking down.

You dont know many 17 year olds, it seems.

Oh Please, I've seen women cry over TV shows, I even seen one cry over road kill. Don't tell me that a woman won't cry on National Television.
Depends on the woman.

Depends on the woman.

Its been proven that women are more emotional than men. Women are more likely to cry then men. I don't want a President that cries. I want a President that take charge!

Its been proven that women are more emotional than men. Women are more likely to cry then men. I don't want a President that cries. I want a President that take charge!

:rolleyes: Maybe most are, but not all.

:rolleyes: Maybe most are, but not all.

I really should make a video showing exactly what it would be like to have a sobbing President on TV. It would not be a good image. *gets out digital video camera and girlfriend*

What are you kidding? America will be the only western democratic style government to ever vote for a black candidate. I always vote for the least socialist and would continue to do that. There is only one democrat I would vote for before Rice and that is Zel Miller and even he is a bit socialist.

I really should make a video showing exactly what it would be like to have a sobbing President on TV. It would not be a good image. *gets out digital video camera and girlfriend*
You can't judge a whole group based on a few individuals. :rolleyes: That would be like judging all males as idiots based on your opinion.

What are you kidding? America will be the only western democratic style government to ever vote for a black candidate. I always vote for the least socialist and would continue to do that. There is only one democrat I would vote for before Rice and that is Zel Miller and even he is a bit socialist.

Uhm... what democrat's last name is rice?

Rice isn't a democrat. Rereading my post I can see where you would make that mistake but she is a republican. She isn't a conservative though. I would vote for a conservative first. I would like to vote for the California judge who's last name is Jones. She is black. I can't remember her first name, but a black chic who isn't part of the group think that is black democrats, is ok by me. She seems to hate socialism even more than i do.

Its been proven that women are more emotional than men.

So why are most assults, murders and rapes committed by men? It seems the evidence is that women are the ones who are able to control their emotions and impulses, not men.

Because men are bigger. If you have never been attacked by a woman, you must really like sheepish women. Come on get real. Women are as mean or meaner than men.
Come on, are you serious? Look at the men who commit most crime. They didn't have a father figure. Most criminals come from broken homes. Something like 70 percent of those incarcerated in the USA come from broken homes.

So why are most assults, murders and rapes committed by men? It seems the evidence is that women are the ones who are able to control their emotions and impulses, not men.

and yet, when women get angry they throw stuff at their lover, boyfriend, husband etc. I even seen one woman shoot a gun at her husband. Yea women are reeeealllll innocent here. :rolleyes:

and yet, when women get angry they throw stuff at their lover, boyfriend, husband etc. I even seen one woman shoot a gun at her husband. Yea women are reeeealllll innocent here. :rolleyes:
What about fathers who beat their children? :rolleyes: There are good and bad in every group, and there are differences in every individual. So you can't really compare.

Because men are bigger.

I don't think the size of men has anything to do with their likelyhood to commit crime. In fact, from my own experience I'd say the correlation was negative. Male criminals are slightly smaller than average. Even if you drop the smallest half of the female population, men still commit more violent crime than the 50% of women who are above average size.

If you have never been attacked by a woman, you must really like sheepish women.

Or maybe I just don't inspire homocidal rage in people?

Come on get real. Women are as mean or meaner than men.

Then why do men commit so many more crimes?

What if she did? If she was surrounded with competent people at FEMA, etc...it would actually be nice to see a Pres actually show some real emotion and sadness at the loss and tragedy...not the cold smirk of Bush, who hasn't even shed crocodile tears, let alone real ones, over this whole thing yet!

And he and his people have royally fucked the handling of this tragedy...even the Freepers and his buddies at the Corporate Media are climbing his ass.

And even if she did break down and cry, she sure as hell couldn't POSSIBLY have managed this tragedy (Katrina) any worse than Bush has so far!!

And even his BUDDIES are saying so, so it isn't just libs like me looking to take another shot at Bush...when your own buddies turn on you and tell you you've fucked up, then it's really bad.Might wanna watch what youe say, elst you get a foot stuck in your mouth. It is looking like it was the governor of Loiuisiana that dropped the ball on this one. And the governor is a her. :eek:
~edit~ Mark my words, give it a week, and it will all come out. And I also predict the mayor of New Orleans is gonna be in some deep shit too!

it seems we cant win here, we're either going to be a racist, sexist bigot or a politically correct pussy. Its a stupid choice anyway.

I'd go with the white guy just 'cause I can.

Goodness gracious, haven't any of you seen pictures of Reagan during his early movie career? Fass: Ronald Reagan was MIGHTY good looking as a young man - certainly better looking than Jimmy Carter and the buck-toothed JFK put together. He was in his 70s as president. I should hope to look that good when I am in my 70s with the weight of the world on my shoulders. Some of you people are such biased hacks.

the republican one. and i'm british.

I'm a white caucasian British citizen and I voted with the white male. I have no pretensions as to my being racist, I am as racist as is possible, and given the racist abuse I endure in London, I feel justified. The majority of ethnic minorities in Britain are insular, xenophobic, and generally contrive to make one feel unwelcome and alien in one's own country. Since the prevailant sentiments of the etnic minorities of introspection, I see no reason to afford them political office.

Jeez you liberal will blame Bush for everything don't ya? Do you really think Bush has this much control? Don't you think that maybe the mayor of New Orleans or the governer of LA had some sort of control? Its not the President responsibility to be the First Responder. I think its apparent that New Orleans and Louisania did not have a plan A, B, C, D etc. I mean there are around 200 to 300 school buses under water now, and if each of them could hold 50 people. Thats close to 10,000 to 15,000 people being able to ride the bus. There was 8,000 National Guards men on hold in New Orleans that the Governer could've called. He/She could've called on other states to send their National Guards people. Beside these retards aren't helping by shooting at the helicopter that is TRYING to HELP them. They're lucky that they don't get shot back.

I think I should also mention that the Governer of LA is a woman, and she did break down on National Televison blaming the Handicapps and elderly for not following the evacuation orders. Ummm, these people are either handicapped or old. I think its a pretty damn good chance that they couldn't get out if they could. I mean you have control over hundreds of buses, the least you could've done was give them a ride out of New Orleans. The same goes for the poor people.

These are School Buses that could've been used to evacuate the handicapped and elderly.

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,513280,00.jpg

I know that you liberals gets sexually aroused for blaming Bush for things, and trust me, I blame him sometimes too. But this time its not his fault.


Great. You got 200 to 300 school buses. Wonderful. And you've issued an evacuation order for the city. wonderful. Did you think to commandeer 200 to 300 Guardsmen to DRIVE the goddam buses? Oh, that's right, I forgot, the Guardsmen are all in IRAQ....

Jeebus, some of you conservatives will do ANYTHING, or say ANYTHING to cover Bush's little tush, won't ya?

Jeez, even Republican Congressmen and Senators...and Freepers (denizens of Free Republic) are ripping Bush...now, when your own turn on you, you know you have fucked it. Wake up. Bush blew it. Big time. And the most obvious question...(which thank God I'm not the only one asking right now) is this: If we can't handle a natural disaster that we had DAYS advance warning on...how the HELL would we handle a terrorist attack on this sort of scale from a dirty bomb, or chemical/biological weapons? How prepared are we, REALLY...to deal with such an event if it happens?? How much safer does your little Bushie-boy make ya feel NOW?!?!

Great. You got 200 to 300 school buses. Wonderful. And you've issued an evacuation order for the city. wonderful. Did you think to commandeer 200 to 300 Guardsmen to DRIVE the goddam buses? Oh, that's right, I forgot, the Guardsmen are all in IRAQ....

Um... why not use actual bus drivers? :rolleyes:

I would certainly vote for a black woman, if she was the better candidate. I do not believe in some hype surrounding female candidates that woman should vote for them because they are women, sisterhood and all that.

Yea, that'll be a good image to send to our country men, soilders and our enemies overseas.

Black Woman President: I'm sorry America..... I did all I could *starts to cry* I failed you alll *cries more* I'm sorry *cries hysterictally.*

Yea thats the image I want to see on national television. I

Jeez Al Quedia sees something like that and all the sudden they think we're a bunch of cry baby pansies. I say we need a president that says

President: On this day, our country was attack. But don't worry America. I will lead the charge on the counter attack on those terrorist SOB. This country will not rest until it kills every single last terrorist. If you are a terrorist, you can bet we're going to put a boot right up your ass. *flips middle finger*


Beats the shit out of WAITING FOUR FREAKING DAYS to even bother to put in an appearance, and then, only because it was a good photo-op!! I bet the son of a Bush threw a slice of cake out of Air Force One on his original overflight in Air Force One. Hey, Bush, you jackass, the folks on the ground weren't waving at you as you flew over, nice and safe...THEY WERE DROWNING!!

And tell me....just what the hell is wrong with crying a little bit, and showing that you ACTUALLY GIVE A SHIT about the suffering of others? Bush has nothing but his cold smirk, not even crocodile tears for the folk in N.O. Oh, that's right, I forgot, THEY ARE ALL BLACK!! If you ask me, this whole situation should be carrying indictments for murder and genocide!

You tell ME why The American Red Cross is being kept OUT of New Orleans....at gunpoint!?!?! Those people need help NOW!! Help can't wait!!
Their excuse?? Oh, if we let them in, people will want to stay instead of evacuate! Bull-fuckin-shit! It isn't like The Red Cross wouldn't be at the places they'd be evaucated to...and people know that. They would, of course, rather stay in a city full of rotting corpses, spreading disease, and toxic filth, so that they can get Red Cross supplies....instead of evacuating to somewhere clean, with air conditioning and sanitary conditions....WHERE THEY COULD ALSO GET RED CROSS SUPPLIES!!!

Gimme a freaking break! You do NOT stop an aid agency from coming into a disaster area to provide humanitarian relief...unless, of course, you already believe those who are in that area are somehow less than human! and undeserving of aid. This is GENOCIDE. It's disgusting. And Bush could do something about it, but he won't. Shows ya how much he cares!

Would it be such a bad thing to have a leader, male or female...WHO SHAOWS THAT THEY ACTUALLY CARE about the human tragedy and suffering? What the hell IS wrong with a few tears, that are then followed up by ACTION??

No way in hell can you convince me that even the most emotional of women leaders couldn't have done a better job than Bush has so far.

And what about all the evacuation efforts? They made sure to get all the rich white folk out of the hotels they were stuck in, while ignoring the folk (mostly black) in the Convention Center, and The Superdome.

Hey if hes willing to show the country that he can lead us and in face of disaster he won't have an emotional breakdown, then I"m all for him. Look theres a time for crying and then theres not a time for it. When you got millions of people looking to you for leadership. You don't need to cry on National Television. It sends the wrong image and it shows you unable to lead and it shows you as a weak person.

Ah...so in your world, having geniuine FEELINGS for others is a sign of weakness? Glad I don't know you.

Oh Please, I've seen women cry over TV shows, I even seen one cry over road kill. Don't tell me that a woman won't cry on National Television.
Better than Bush, who doesn't cry BECAUSE HE DOESN'T CARE!!!

The only way HE would ever cry is if something drastically cut into the profits of Exxon-Mobil, and they were somehow unable to shift that cost onto the shoulders of working Americans!

The African American woman most definately. I think it's time the white house gets a little color in it. :D

Its been proven that women are more emotional than men. Women are more likely to cry then men. I don't want a President that cries. I want a President that take charge!

Yeah...just like Bush has in this crisis in New Orleans, right?

No....me...I want a President who shows they really actually CARE...and if that is by crying, then so be it. as long as they follow up the cry with ACTION. and, as I've already said, it is not possible for anyone to have fucked this whole thing worse than Bush has.

Yep...guns before food and humanitarian aid. Thanks, Bush. Thanks to you thousands more will die than had to. But does he shed one tear for the dead there? NOPE! And, mind, these are all red-state folk! Then again, these people left are probably the blue voters in the red states...which is probably why he does not care about them. Yes, I truly believe Bush to be that evil and that diabolical.

Its been proven that women are more emotional than men. Women are more likely to cry then men. I don't want a President that cries. I want a President that take charge!

Really? Well, here's some food for thought then. Is not part of "taking charge" also TAKING ACCOUNTABILITY for things when they get fucked up under your command?? Since when has Bush ever taken accountability for ANYTHING, instead of blaming others...and since when has the Corporate Media ever asked...or FORCED him to accpet that accountability? so how much "taking charge" is Bush doing? Seems the only thing Bush is good at "taking charge" of is playing "Pin The Blame On The Donkey!"

I really should make a video showing exactly what it would be like to have a sobbing President on TV. It would not be a good image. *gets out digital video camera and girlfriend*

Why do I detect sexism and mysogyny here? Man, if I was your girlfriend, I'd dump your ass so fast and so hard, your head would spin!

What are you kidding? America will be the only western democratic style government to ever vote for a black candidate. I always vote for the least socialist and would continue to do that. There is only one democrat I would vote for before Rice and that is Zel Miller and even he is a bit socialist.

Zell Miller is a DINO, and you may have him. I wish he would just show his true colors and switch parties. He's no Democrat. He's a DINO - Democrat In Name Only.
to paraphrase Arthur Miller...A fart on Zell Miller, that is what I say to that!

Rice isn't a democrat. Rereading my post I can see where you would make that mistake but she is a republican. She isn't a conservative though. I would vote for a conservative first. I would like to vote for the California judge who's last name is Jones. She is black. I can't remember her first name, but a black chic who isn't part of the group think that is black democrats, is ok by me. She seems to hate socialism even more than i do.
No, she's a fascist!!

So why are most assults, murders and rapes committed by men? It seems the evidence is that women are the ones who are able to control their emotions and impulses, not men.

Well, it seems that, for some people...expressions of anger and violence are a-okay...but expressions of genuine caring (like a tear every one in a while) is "pussy."

Um... why not use actual bus drivers? :rolleyes:

Uh....maybe because all the bus drivers were already busy evacuating themselves and their own families??

Ya think??

Given the circumstances I'd mourn the loss of American democracy and fight hard against such a one party state. I would by no means vote, this would give such a government credibility. Instead I would try to overthrow such a government.

Uh....maybe because all the bus drivers were already busy evacuating themselves and their own families??

Ya think??

Unless of course they're ordered to stay behind and help people evacuate, just like other emergency personnel were told to do. ;)

Beats the shit out of WAITING FOUR FREAKING DAYS to even bother to put in an appearance, and then, only because it was a good photo-op!! I bet the son of a Bush threw a slice of cake out of Air Force One on his original overflight in Air Force One. Hey, Bush, you jackass, the folks on the ground weren't waving at you as you flew over, nice and safe...THEY WERE DROWNING!!
And what the fuck was he suppose to do??? Start handing out MREs in person? There's a reason states have rights and government depts. like FEMA are created, is it Bush's fault that they dropped the ball?

And tell me....just what the hell is wrong with crying a little bit, and showing that you ACTUALLY GIVE A SHIT about the suffering of others? Bush has nothing but his cold smirk, not even crocodile tears for the folk in N.O. Oh, that's right, I forgot, THEY ARE ALL BLACK!! If you ask me, this whole situation should be carrying indictments for murder and genocide!
Oh of course, he wants to kill them off becuase they're black :rolleyes: When will you people stop playing the Race Card for every single wrong done to a black person? I mean shit, it's not like Bush ordered the hurricane to hit NO

You tell ME why The American Red Cross is being kept OUT of New Orleans....at gunpoint!?!?!
Because they're being shot at! Or did you forget the fact that there are roaming gangs of armed men running wild in the city and crazy snipers firing at evacuation efforts and police stations?

And what about all the evacuation efforts? They made sure to get all the rich white folk out of the hotels they were stuck in, while ignoring the folk (mostly black) in the Convention Center, and The Superdome.
Most of the rich white folk got out of Dodge as quick as they could on their own, leaving only those who can't leave or wanted to stay. There are a variety of people who got stuck at the refugee centers, besides those "poor disenfranchised African-Americans" :rolleyes:

I'd actually be an intelligent person and choose whoever will make my country better... why isn't that a choice?

Just to see where you stand, assuming it's down to two candidates. Both nearly identical on the issues. One is a Black Woman the other a white male, who has your vote?

Well, assuming there are absolutely no other differences between the candidates that I would find relevant, I would be inclined to vote for the Black Woman.

But the assumption is a pretty big one and I would need to real people to actually make a choice. Purely as a theoretical with all else being equal, I would make the affirmative action choice.

1. Unless of course they're ordered to stay behind and help people evacuate, just like other emergency personnel were told to do. ;)


2. And what the fuck was he suppose to do??? Start handing out MREs in person? There's a reason states have rights and government depts. like FEMA are created, is it Bush's fault that they dropped the ball?


3. Oh of course, he wants to kill them off becuase they're black :rolleyes: When will you people stop playing the Race Card for every single wrong done to a black person? I mean shit, it's not like Bush ordered the hurricane to hit NO


4. Because they're being shot at! Or did you forget the fact that there are roaming gangs of armed men running wild in the city and crazy snipers firing at evacuation efforts and police stations?


5. Most of the rich white folk got out of Dodge as quick as they could on their own, leaving only those who can't leave or wanted to stay. There are a variety of people who got stuck at the refugee centers, besides those "poor disenfranchised African-Americans" :rolleyes:

1. Bus drivers are NOT "emergency personnel" that can be ordered to stay behind and help, like policemen, firefighters, paramedics, and doctors and nurses are. And unless the law has changed, no govenment can FORCE a private citizen to stay behind and help - THAT IS WHAT THE NATIONAL GUARD IS FOR!!! Not to fight wars of choice justified with lies, and started by an evil madman who just happened (according to Diebold) to get enough votes to be able to be in the position to be able to pick a war. It's illegal, because only Congress can declare a war, and Congress didn't declare. Nevertheless, bus drivers could not be forced to stay behind and drive those busses, BUT NATIONAL GUARDSMEN COULD HAVE BEEN!

2. What's wrong with that? Is Bush "above" handing out some damned MRE's? At least it would show he gave a shit! If I were President, I'd have been on the scene, immediately, and doing anything and everything I could to SHOW I cared! And, by the way, yes...FEMA dropped the ball...but, who exactly did you think appointed the incompetent dickweed, Mike "Baghdad" Brown to head up FEMA? Give ya three guesses, and the first two don't count. Give ya a hint, too, his last name has 4 letters in it, and his Daddy was also once the President. When you operate the government on the Peter Principle (elevating incompetent people to their highest level of incompetence) then, yes, you need to take the blame for it when your cronies fuck up.

3. No, true enough, Bush didn't order that. But Bush and the governemtn that HE IS THE LEADER OF...could have done a whole hell of a lot more...and a whole hell of a lot sooner...to alleiviate the suffering, but instead, he saw fit to go to a FUNDRAISER in San Diego! And no, it was not a Katrina relief fundraiseer, it was a fundraiser for the fucking RNC! Also, if Bush hadn't cut funding from preventative efforts for three years in a row, to give the already criminally wealthy a huge tax cut, and flush the rest of it down the toilet that is Iraq...perhaps the worst of the tragedy could have been averted in the first place! Why will you continue to shield Bush from accepting the consequences of his own actions?

4. That doesn't stop the Red Cross in other places...being shot at! Hell, didn't you know the Red Cross was FOUNDED in the Civil War, and the Red Cross people were getting shot at ALL THE TIME...not to mention all the other civil unrest in other places around the world that they go into to help for a natural disaster? No, this is the Government keeping out relief efforts at gunpoint! How else to interpret it? Obviously, Bush doesn't WANT these people to be helped!

5. The VAST MAJORITY of those who got stuck were stuck because they were poor, and usually black. They did not have the resources with which to evacuate, when the order came down...they had no cars, no money for gas for them if they had cars...no money for a motel stay for God knew how long...and no family to turn to, nowhere to go. And, since it was known, days in advance, that this hurricane was coming in that general direction (enough advance notice so as to clear out the fortunate) then why weren't those busses that were mentioned earlier commandeered, and used to help evacuate poor people who had no other way to leave?

Ha ha ha ha ha. It doesn't matter how we vote, the electorial votes count, not the popular votes (for presidential elections), and the latter needn't have an effect on the former. That is why voting is pointless (or atleast in my opinion).

The latter (popular vote by state or district) has always controlled the form (electoral votes).

Don't be silly.

I'd actually be an intelligent person and choose whoever will make my country better... why isn't that a choice?

Most people aren't as enlightened as that. Have to decide on things like skin color and personal apperance as deciding factors.

Assumeing that I consider them to be exactly equal in competance, I would vote for the black female because there could be beneficial externalities to having a black female president. These externalities could include a society with less sexual and racial discrimination. This would obviously benefit the economy.

Exactically!!!

1. Bus drivers are NOT "emergency personnel" that can be ordered to stay behind and help, like policemen, firefighters, paramedics, and doctors and nurses are. And unless the law has changed, no govenment can FORCE a private citizen to stay behind and help - THAT IS WHAT THE NATIONAL GUARD IS FOR!!! Not to fight wars of choice justified with lies, and started by an evil madman who just happened (according to Diebold) to get enough votes to be able to be in the position to be able to pick a war. It's illegal, because only Congress can declare a war, and Congress didn't declare. Nevertheless, bus drivers could not be forced to stay behind and drive those busses, BUT NATIONAL GUARDSMEN COULD HAVE BEEN!
Learn something next time you're in your Gov't class. If you're a part of the Dept. of Transportation, you're a government employee, which means the government can tell you to do anything within reason. Telling the bus drivers to stay behind and help evacuate people would have been within the power of, if not the Mayor of NO, then the Governor of the state(who, by the way, is the Commander-in-Chief of the National Guard; it's her that gives orders to the NG, not Bush, so if you want to blame someone for mishandling the NG then blame Blanco)

2. What's wrong with that? Is Bush "above" handing out some damned MRE's? At least it would show he gave a shit! If I were President, I'd have been on the scene, immediately, and doing anything and everything I could to SHOW I cared! And, by the way, yes...FEMA dropped the ball...but, who exactly did you think appointed the incompetent dickweed, Mike "Baghdad" Brown to head up FEMA? Give ya three guesses, and the first two don't count. Give ya a hint, too, his last name has 4 letters in it, and his Daddy was also once the President. When you operate the government on the Peter Principle (elevating incompetent people to their highest level of incompetence) then, yes, you need to take the blame for it when your cronies fuck up.
Personally, I would rather have the leader of my country in a position where he can direct the rescue operation, rather then doing the job that other people are there for. And I highly doubt Bush picked Brown knowing he would likely screw up in a major disaster

3. No, true enough, Bush didn't order that. But Bush and the governemtn that HE IS THE LEADER OF...could have done a whole hell of a lot more...and a whole hell of a lot sooner...to alleiviate the suffering, but instead, he saw fit to go to a FUNDRAISER in San Diego! And no, it was not a Katrina relief fundraiseer, it was a fundraiser for the fucking RNC! Also, if Bush hadn't cut funding from preventative efforts for three years in a row, to give the already criminally wealthy a huge tax cut, and flush the rest of it down the toilet that is Iraq...perhaps the worst of the tragedy could have been averted in the first place! Why will you continue to shield Bush from accepting the consequences of his own actions?
Bush had already declared a state of emergency for all three states before the storm even hit, and had pleaded with the Mayor and Governor to evacuate NO beforehand. Yes he could have done more, but then again so could have Nagin and Blanco, and the city was their express and only responsibility.

4. That doesn't stop the Red Cross in other places...being shot at! Hell, didn't you know the Red Cross was FOUNDED in the Civil War, and the Red Cross people were getting shot at ALL THE TIME...not to mention all the other civil unrest in other places around the world that they go into to help for a natural disaster? No, this is the Government keeping out relief efforts at gunpoint! How else to interpret it? Obviously, Bush doesn't WANT these people to be helped!
So what the fuck are they suppose to do? Most of the city is flooded so they would have to use boats, the majority of which are open-topped and exposed to sniper fire (it was this exact reason why evacuation from the hospital was stopped a day or two ago) and the law enforcement in the city at the time was having trouble trying to protect themselves much less get food and supplies through. Is Bush himself suppose to go in with a flak jacket and M-16 and get the food to the Superdome? :rolleyes:

5. The VAST MAJORITY of those who got stuck were stuck because they were poor, and usually black. They did not have the resources with which to evacuate, when the order came down...they had no cars, no money for gas for them if they had cars...no money for a motel stay for God knew how long...and no family to turn to, nowhere to go. And, since it was known, days in advance, that this hurricane was coming in that general direction (enough advance notice so as to clear out the fortunate) then why weren't those busses that were mentioned earlier commandeered, and used to help evacuate poor people who had no other way to leave?
I agree that the local bus system should have been used to get those people out. However that is not Bush's responsability, because you see there's this little thing called state's rights and responsabilites, so it was Nagin and Blanco's call on using those buses and they screwed up.

Why do I detect sexism and mysogyny here? Man, if I was your girlfriend, I'd dump your ass so fast and so hard, your head would spin!

Madam if you were my girlfriend I would kill myself.

But my girlfriend actually agreees. While she may want to see a female President, she just think that crying on National Television does send out the wrong message to the American public.

Madam if you were my girlfriend I would kill myself.

But my girlfriend actually agreees. While she may want to see a female President, she just think that crying on National Television does send out the wrong message to the American public.

Quite. In Britain we have had a female(ish) prime minister, and she was renowned for being devoid of political emotion, however she ws an exemplary leader and remarkable politician. Being a female is not, for me, the issue here, race is.

I don't suppose anyone could give some names of black women who are currently in a position to take the presidency? I don't have memorized every name in politics so I suppose there could be someone out there. Besides, it seems everyone thinks Hillary Clinton will make a run in 2008. Isn't a white woman a good start?

I don't suppose anyone could give some names of black women who are currently in a position to take the presidency? I don't have memorized every name in politics so I suppose there could be someone out there. Besides, it seems everyone thinks Hillary Clinton will make a run in 2008. Isn't a white woman a good start?

Thre's condoleeza rice (not an ancient Thai dish in a takeaway :D ), although the republicans would never back her.

I don't suppose anyone could give some names of black women who are currently in a position to take the presidency? I don't have memorized every name in politics so I suppose there could be someone out there. Besides, it seems everyone thinks Hillary Clinton will make a run in 2008. Isn't a white woman a good start?

Oh God, you kow what, if we get a whiney female President instead of Hillary Clinton, I'll just sit here and be quiet. Please anybody but Hillary Clinton. She scares me.

the republican

1. Learn something next time you're in your Gov't class. If you're a part of the Dept. of Transportation, you're a government employee, which means the government can tell you to do anything within reason. Telling the bus drivers to stay behind and help evacuate people would have been within the power of, if not the Mayor of NO, then the Governor of the state(who, by the way, is the Commander-in-Chief of the National Guard; it's her that gives orders to the NG, not Bush, so if you want to blame someone for mishandling the NG then blame Blanco)


2. Personally, I would rather have the leader of my country in a position where he can direct the rescue operation, rather then doing the job that other people are there for. And I highly doubt Bush picked Brown knowing he would likely screw up in a major disaster


3. Bush had already declared a state of emergency for all three states before the storm even hit, and had pleaded with the Mayor and Governor to evacuate NO beforehand. Yes he could have done more, but then again so could have Nagin and Blanco, and the city was their express and only responsibility.


4. So what the fuck are they suppose to do? Most of the city is flooded so they would have to use boats, the majority of which are open-topped and exposed to sniper fire (it was this exact reason why evacuation from the hospital was stopped a day or two ago) and the law enforcement in the city at the time was having trouble trying to protect themselves much less get food and supplies through. Is Bush himself suppose to go in with a flak jacket and M-16 and get the food to the Superdome? :rolleyes:


5. I agree that the local bus system should have been used to get those people out. However that is not Bush's responsability, because you see there's this little thing called state's rights and responsabilites, so it was Nagin and Blanco's call on using those buses and they screwed up.

1. The busses in question were SCHOOL BUSSES. School bus drivers are employees of school districts or private companies contracted by school districts to drive school busses. I know, my cousin has been a school bus driver for fifteen years! They are NOT employees of the Department of Transportation, they are not government employees, and they could not have been forced to stay behind to help...BUT NATIONAL GUARDSMEN COULD BE!!

And no, I'm not going to blame Blanco (the DEMOCRAT) for mishandling the NG, I'm blaming Bush (the REPUBLICAN) because BUSH is the one who sent them off to an illegal war in Iraq! Blanco didn't declare war or pick a fight on Iraq. If Bush hadn't, those Guardsmen would have been at home, and able to be called up, pressed into service, and waiting deployment days before Katrina struck.

2. I'd rather at least SEE the President SHOWING that he geniuinely cared. And then take charge and leadership. Bush didn't bother taking charge until fully FOUR DAYS after the hurricane was over. And Bush picked Brown just like he picks everyone else...he only puts people in positions of power when they are old buddies (cronies) of his...and/or he owes someone a favor...AND even then, the only people who get jobs are those who tell him exactly what he wants to hear, whether or not it is truthful. And why hasn't Brown's head rolled yet over the fuckup that is New Orleans? And will Brown's head roll over this? I doubt it.

3. And what, exactly did Blanco and Nagin do? They ordered the evacuation of the city!! What else could they have done, since their funds have been cut three years in a row...and their Guardsmen were appropriated to fight an illegal war half the world away? What the hell else could Blanco and Nagin have done? They did what they could with the crappy resources they had available to them at the time.

4. What the fuck are they supposed to do?? Well, what the Red Cross ALWAYS does...provide humanitarian relief. It isn't as though the people who work for the Red Cross are not familiar with dealing in surroundings that contain a high degree of civil unrest. Most natural disasters DO lead to civil unrest and at least some degree of a breakdown in authority. And you nake it sound like every person left in N.O. was armed to the teeth and shooting anything that moved, which is pure unadulterated horse-shit, and even you know that! Read the news accounts, there were people linking arms in the streets waving, doing everything they could to show their intentions were not hostile...and yet, they were still not given help!

5. The local busses certainly COULD have been used...and probably should've. But the busses I spoke of before were SCHOOL BUSSES. Now, the National Guard DOES have the authority to commandeer private property for use in emergency operations, as well as to commandeer government property for the same purposes. Those aforementioned school busses, as well as local city busses, could have been commandeered, and used to get poor people out. They weren't. Party because most of the NG is over in Iraq, fighting an illegal war...instead of home helping out with natural disasters...which is what most Guardsmen expected, and volunteered for, when they signed up. They did not sign up believeing they would be sent half a world away to fight for Exxon-Mobil's bottom line...they expected that they would remain Stateside, have a relatively normal life, except for two weeks a year and two weekends a month...unless a natural disaster struck, whereupon they would be deployed to deal with the situation, which is what they were trained for...and volunteered to do. And, since Nagin and Blanco had no one to call on to DRIVE the goddam busses, what good would it do that these busses were available?

No, you can't weasel your Bushie-boy's way out of this. It's time for him to stand up and take accountability for his actions, which led to this tregedy being far worse than it had to be...and take accountability for the dismal effort that we saw, the lack of effort we saw...for four days after Katrina was gone.

Oh God, you kow what, if we get a whiney female President instead of Hillary Clinton, I'll just sit here and be quiet. Please anybody but Hillary Clinton. She scares me.

Why? Because she's a woman politician who plays politics like a man?

Why? Because she's a woman politician who plays politics like a man?

I think we could get an answer if we asked Bill that is if Hilary would let Bill talk to us.

What does their gender and race matter?

I'm really more for the issues. But, since they are the same: The minority. White men don't do shit for anyone.

this poll is bullshit since democrats and republicans have very different views on everything and i cant see any other party getting more than a couple percent.

this is never going to happen and it really doesnt matter what the outcome of this poll is because ur options are terrible. yes im blunt.

this is not going to happen and i think the next president will be a black male anyways: Barrack Obama is on his way up and people love him, not only is he intelligent and a good speaker, im sure lots of people would vote for him just cuz hes black, i think he ought to be the next president

-snip

if you are trying to give an educated report you should not let your preference of politics come out that much because you just sound like a ranting hippy who hasnt smoked their shit in too long

1. The busses in question were SCHOOL BUSSES. School bus drivers are employees of school districts or private companies contracted by school districts to drive school busses. I know, my cousin has been a school bus driver for fifteen years! They are NOT employees of the Department of Transportation, they are not government employees, and they could not have been forced to stay behind to help...BUT NATIONAL GUARDSMEN COULD BE!!
How bloody dense are you? The schools are part of the government you sorry excuse of a sentient being, in an emergency they can be ordered to help in an evacuation.

And no, I'm not going to blame Blanco (the DEMOCRAT) for mishandling the NG, I'm blaming Bush (the REPUBLICAN) because BUSH is the one who sent them off to an illegal war in Iraq! Blanco didn't declare war or pick a fight on Iraq. If Bush hadn't, those Guardsmen would have been at home, and able to be called up, pressed into service, and waiting deployment days before Katrina struck.
So you're not blaming Blanco only because she's a Democrat? How unbiased of you :rolleyes: You do realize there were still a good 8,000 Guardsmen left in Louisiana, and due to special arrangments with other states they could have called on NG units from as far as Michigan and California? The National Guard is the responsibility of the state's Governor, it's her fault that those units weren't on stand-by near the city ready to provide aid and security. For Fuck's sake, that's their bloody job and they could see the storm coming days beforehand.

Furthermore Bush declared the entire three-state area a state of federal emergency a full day before the storm even struck, something not done in US history before; meanwhile Blanco has waited until today to declare a state of public health emergency for Louisiana. Fucking bloody incompetence.

2. I'd rather at least SEE the President SHOWING that he geniuinely cared. And then take charge and leadership. Bush didn't bother taking charge until fully FOUR DAYS after the hurricane was over. And Bush picked Brown just like he picks everyone else...he only puts people in positions of power when they are old buddies (cronies) of his...and/or he owes someone a favor...AND even then, the only people who get jobs are those who tell him exactly what he wants to hear, whether or not it is truthful. And why hasn't Brown's head rolled yet over the fuckup that is New Orleans? And will Brown's head roll over this? I doubt it.
What's he going to do the first two days? No one has a fucking clue about what's going on in the city, and even by the third day people didn't even know there were refugees at the convention center much less the conditions of the city as a whole. Bush was letting the people whose job it is to handle these things, like FEMA and the state governments, to do their jobs until it became apparent they've fucked up

I'll ignore that last bit about Brown since you've already proved yourself to be a rabid anti-Bush fanatic and haven't offered any evidence he was one of GW's "good ol' boys" :rolleyes:

3. And what, exactly did Blanco and Nagin do? They ordered the evacuation of the city!! What else could they have done, since their funds have been cut three years in a row...and their Guardsmen were appropriated to fight an illegal war half the world away? What the hell else could Blanco and Nagin have done? They did what they could with the crappy resources they had available to them at the time.
They could've done their bloody jobs. Even though he made the evacuation "mandatory" (which is a joke, since people won't actually be forced out of the city) Nagin ran away to Baton Rouge while the city fell into anarchy and the NOPD collapsed. He told people to get to the Superdome and Convention Center and left them without proper supplies or, in the center's case, completely forgot about them. If he had wanted to he could have comandeered the city's entire NORTA bus force (350+ overall (http://www.apta.com/research/stats/bus/finance.cfm)) plus school buses and, if not evacuate everyone who wanted to but couldn't leave, he coudl've gotten enough out to make a difference. If he had a plan, he obviously didn't follow it.
Blanco could've done her job and actually deploy the thousands of Guardsmen still in the state, who could've been ready right after the storm hit, and actually accept the help that other states were offering (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050903/ap_on_re_us/katrina_national_guard):
Maj. Gen. Thomas Cutler, who leads the Michigan National Guard, said he anticipated a call for police units and started preparing them, but couldn't go until states in the hurricane zone asked them to come.

"We could have had people on the road Tuesday," Cutler said. "We have to wait and respond to their need."

4. What the fuck are they supposed to do?? Well, what the Red Cross ALWAYS does...provide humanitarian relief. It isn't as though the people who work for the Red Cross are not familiar with dealing in surroundings that contain a high degree of civil unrest. Most natural disasters DO lead to civil unrest and at least some degree of a breakdown in authority. And you nake it sound like every person left in N.O. was armed to the teeth and shooting anything that moved, which is pure unadulterated horse-shit, and even you know that! Read the news accounts, there were people linking arms in the streets waving, doing everything they could to show their intentions were not hostile...and yet, they were still not given help!
And there were just as many, if not more, who are even now shooting at rescue helicopters and relief forces. The state governments didn't want ARC getting shot at by their citizens and thought they could handle it.

5. The local busses certainly COULD have been used...and probably should've. But the busses I spoke of before were SCHOOL BUSSES. Now, the National Guard DOES have the authority to commandeer private property for use in emergency operations, as well as to commandeer government property for the same purposes. Those aforementioned school busses, as well as local city busses, could have been commandeered, and used to get poor people out. They weren't. Party because most of the NG is over in Iraq, fighting an illegal war...instead of home helping out with natural disasters...which is what most Guardsmen expected, and volunteered for, when they signed up. They did not sign up believeing they would be sent half a world away to fight for Exxon-Mobil's bottom line...they expected that they would remain Stateside, have a relatively normal life, except for two weeks a year and two weekends a month...unless a natural disaster struck, whereupon they would be deployed to deal with the situation, which is what they were trained for...and volunteered to do. And, since Nagin and Blanco had no one to call on to DRIVE the goddam busses, what good would it do that these busses were available?
Jesus F. Christ, can you people at least get some of your fact straight? Those school buses could have been used for evacuation well before the storm struck, Nagin alone had the power to do that you braindead idiot not to mention any orders Blanco couldn've given out. The School System is Part of the Government, and under the control of the Mayor or Governor, espcially during times of Emergency. And please actually do some research next time (I know it would be hard for you, being faced with facts that don't support your "let's Bash Bush! Rar!" attitude"), Louisiana still has over half of its Guard forces state-side, with additional Guard units on call from other states to help out. The only problem is

No, you can't weasel your Bushie-boy's way out of this. It's time for him to stand up and take accountability for his actions, which led to this tregedy being far worse than it had to be...and take accountability for the dismal effort that we saw, the lack of effort we saw...for four days after Katrina was gone.
No one's trying to weasel anyone out, but your insistance that Bush is 100% completely and only responsible for the cluster-fuck that is NO is both unreasonable and downright silly. Bush did good at first but was slow to respond later. Nagin just abandonded the city, and Blanco has been doing a good impression of a deer caught in headlights. Brown sure as hell fucked up as well, considering FEMA trained for this exact thing, and Congress fucked up by cutting funds to shore up the levee system. Everyone's responsible here and no matter how mad you are at Bush the blame does not rest fully on him. Why don't you just go fume somewhere else, or instead of simmering in your own hate actually help with the rescue effort and get in contact with an organization that could use your help.

if you are trying to give an educated report you should not let your preference of politics come out that much because you just sound like a ranting hippy who hasnt smoked their shit in too long

Let me make sure I'm perfectly understanding you here...

Are you, sir...accusing me, in any way, of consuming illegal narcotics?

This is the one and only time I am going to be nice about it when you personally insult me. The next time, I will follow up all avenues available to me. This is slanderous activity if you are accusing me of illegal activities in a public forum, and I will not tolerate it. Am I making myself perfectly clear? I certainly hope so. You have a nice evening.

How bloody dense are you? The schools are part of the government you sorry excuse of a sentient being, in an emergency they can be ordered to help in an evacuation.

No they fucking-A-well cannot...they ARE NOT CLASSIFIED AS EMERGENCY PERSONNEL!
Secondly, it is just as likely that they are employees of private companies contracted to drive school busses for the school district. My cousin, the bus driver I mentioned...drive schoolchildren for chicago Public Schools...BUT SHE WORKS FOR A PRIVATE BUS COMPANY THAT IS CONTRACTED WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT TO TRANSPORT STUDENTS.

Does it get through this time?

The question here isn't mainly whether you are you a racist or not, but tradition. Of course there would be black people who vote for the black woman because they are black and whites who vote for the whtie male because they are white, some people may even vote for the black woman to be politically correct, but I think people would generally vote for the white male because of all the famous white male presidents in the past, for black liberals you would probably get 50/50.

If their views were different I don't even think the racists would bias their votes based on the race of the prospective president. For instance if the black woman wanted to get rid of affirmative action, I don't think racist would vote for the pro-affirmative action white male.

1. I'll ignore that last bit about Brown since you've already proved yourself to be a rabid anti-Bush fanatic and haven't offered any evidence he was one of GW's "good ol' boys" :rolleyes:

2. No one's trying to weasel anyone out, but your insistance that Bush is 100% completely and only responsible for the cluster-fuck that is NO is both unreasonable and downright silly. Bush did good at first but was slow to respond later. Nagin just abandonded the city, and Blanco has been doing a good impression of a deer caught in headlights. Brown sure as hell fucked up as well, considering FEMA trained for this exact thing, and Congress fucked up by cutting funds to shore up the levee system. Everyone's responsible here and no matter how mad you are at Bush the blame does not rest fully on him. Why don't you just go fume somewhere else, or instead of simmering in your own hate actually help with the rescue effort and get in contact with an organization that could use your help.

1. I'll for the most part ignore your entire post, since you have proved yourself to be a rabid pro-Bush fanatic, and you will insist on insuring he continues to get a free pass for every fuckup he does. Bush is King Sadim (reverse Midas...everything he touches turns into a great big pile of shit.)

2. You are trying to weasel Bush out, and it has been your constant assertion that Bush is ZERO PERCENT responsible! Just for once, I want him to stand up and fucking admit to having made a goddamn mistake...JUST ONCE!!!

Is that so much to ask?

Now, if you continue to refuse to accept reality...and continue to just rabidly defend Bush, I'm going to have no choice but to put you on ignore, just to save myself from blowing my top...and to save my fucking sanity.

Let me make sure I'm perfectly understanding you here...

Are you, sir...accusing me, in any way, of consuming illegal narcotics?

This is the one and only time I am going to be nice about it when you personally insult me. The next time, I will follow up all avenues available to me. This is slanderous activity if you are accusing me of illegal activities in a public forum, and I will not tolerate it. Am I making myself perfectly clear? I certainly hope so. You have a nice evening.

Apparantly sarcasam was lost on you there. Did that one really go that far over your head? He was referencing how your discussions, though well versed with information and well written, tend to be overly emotional and heavly leaning to one side. Instead of letting the facts you present speak for you, your voice tends to overshadow them.

The question here isn't mainly whether you are you a racist or not, but tradition. Of course there would be black people who vote for the black woman because they are black and whites who vote for the whtie male because they are white, some people may even vote for the black woman to be politically correct, but I think people would generally vote for the white male because of all the famous white male presidents in the past, for black liberals you would probably get 50/50.

If their views were different I don't even think the racists would bias their votes based on the race of the prospective president. For instance if the black woman wanted to get rid of affirmative action, I don't think racist would vote for the pro-affirmative action white male.
Read the whole thread. The qualifier...bullshit qualifier that it is...is that their views on the issues are exactly the same. With two political parties this will never actually happen, which is why it's a bullshit qualifier, but, nevertheless, the original poster stipulated this as a qualifier.

Apparantly sarcasam was lost on you there. Did that one really go that far over your head? He was referencing how your discussions, though well versed with information and well written, tend to be overly emotional and heavly leaning to one side. Instead of letting the facts you present speak for you, your voice tends to overshadow them.

I'm not going to allow someone, even sarcastically, to suggest I am engaged in illegal activities. That's first. Second, it didn't sound sarcastic nearly as much as it sounded directly INSULTING.

I'm not going to allow someone, even sarcastically, to suggest I am engaged in illegal activities. That's first. Second, it didn't sound sarcastic nearly as much as it sounded directly INSULTING.

Lyric it was a sarcastic remark. It would be like me asking someone what they were smoking and where can I get some. Though it has a reference to drugs in it the remark itself deals with someones ideas. Get over yourself.

Why? Because she's a woman politician who plays politics like a man?

Yes men are known to regularly bust into Congress demanding that they enact their health reform. :rolleyes: . I hate her because shes well, basically a bitch. I mean you can just look at her and realize that she does not have any warmth in her. Hell I don't blame Bill for getting that BJ from Monica. If Hillary was my wife I would be cheating on her too!

No they fucking-A-well cannot...they ARE NOT CLASSIFIED AS EMERGENCY PERSONNEL!
They are still employed by the Government, which means they can be forced to help evacuate people in an emergency situation, such as an entire city is about to be flooded
Secondly, it is just as likely that they are employees of private companies contracted to drive school busses for the school district. My cousin, the bus driver I mentioned...drive schoolchildren for chicago Public Schools...BUT SHE WORKS FOR A PRIVATE BUS COMPANY THAT IS CONTRACTED WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT TO TRANSPORT STUDENTS.
NAGIN: I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses, man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had, they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out here.
Proof that you can use school bus drivers for emergency situation and that they were not private but public employees, and they should've been used in the first place instead of Nagin whinning about needing them a few days later.

I'll for the most part ignore your entire post, since you have proved yourself to be a rabid pro-Bush fanatic, and you will insist on insuring he continues to get a free pass for every fuckup he does. Bush is King Sadim (reverse Midas...everything he touches turns into a great big pile of shit.)
I've supported my position with evidence, while your single reason for blaming Bush rather then Blanco is becuause he's Republican and she's Democrat. If that's not mindless rabid thinking then I'm not sure what is.

You are trying to weasel Bush out, and it has been your constant assertion that Bush is ZERO PERCENT responsible! Just for once, I want him to stand up and fucking admit to having made a goddamn mistake...JUST ONCE!!
Please point out where I was trying to portray Bush as having no responsibility for this situation, for fuck's sake I blame him for slow response afterwards in that same paragraph you quoted! Not only do you not know how the government works, you don't know how to read either.

the one who connects with me more.

I don't see why race or gender should play a part in my choice at all.

Obviously, I'd pick whoever I find more physically attractive :D

I'm white, so I would probably vote for the white male. Especially if he's hot. Call me a 15 year old traditionalist, but I always associate presidential positions with males, and also white males.

Pretend they are both have the exact same views and it is a general election.
I wouldn't bother voting. In fact, I'd probably picket outside my local voting station complaining about how trivialised democracy has become.

Unless different views are represented, voting is completely pointless.

I'd vote for the one with the biggest dick... so I couldn't vote for a black woman, but I could vote for Hillary... remember she had Clinton, a.k.a... the biggest dick... har har har har har !!!

Seriously, Oprah will get my vote.

I would personally vote for a black, female, gay, Jewish woman.

That way, it would righteously piss of as many hillbilly neo-nazi shitheads as possible.

Uh....maybe because all the bus drivers were already busy evacuating themselves and their own families??

Ya think??

If you offer $100/hr to drive a bus from downtown to some secured location 50 miles away, and you'd be beating volunteers off with a stick!

Please point out where I was trying to portray Bush as having no responsibility for this situation, for fuck's sake I blame him for slow response afterwards in that same paragraph you quoted! Not only do you not know how the government works, you don't know how to read either.

THAT IS THE LAST FUCKING STRAW!!!
I have a fucking 160 I.Q. and I am NOT going to tolerate your purile insults, because I happen to hold a different opinion than you do.

HOW DARE YOU suggest that I am illiterate? No, that's it. I have had it.

Just to see where you stand, assuming it's down to two candidates. Both nearly identical on the issues. One is a Black Woman the other a white male, who has your vote?

How attractive is the black woman? If she's hot then her (I might as well watch a beautiful woman giving a speech rather than a man). If she's not then I'll just flip a coin on it...

May I suggest that Cpt_Cody and Lyric calm down a bit, and take a breather? If you both continue to be at each others' necks, someone may 'blow their top'. Just a reminder to keep it civil, and Lyric, like I suggested before, I would stop capitalizing entire sentences as you have been. It makes you look like you have a bad temper.

THAT IS THE LAST FUCKING STRAW!!!
I have a fucking 160 I.Q. and I am NOT going to tolerate your purile insults, because I happen to hold a different opinion than you do.

HOW DARE YOU suggest that I am illiterate? No, that's it. I have had it.
Well I have a fucking I.Q. of 161, so I guess I'm smarter then you :rolleyes:

I don't care that you hold a different opinion, that's great, it that you've taken a very narrow-minded bigoted reasoning for it without proper background to support your assertions. You openly admit that you won't blame Blanco for the disaster because she's a Democrat, while laying all of the blame at Bush's feet because he's a Republican, ignoring the fact that the state governor is cheifly responsible for any natural disasters in his/her state with the ability to declare a state of emergency, mobilize the National Guard and generally get anything they want done.

So go boil in your own hatred about how Bush is out to get you and your little dog too, meanwhile I'll go try and actually help these people by looking up where the nearest ARC office is and see if they need any blood or money.

Just as a note to Cpt_Cody and other "Bush-Can-Do-No-Wrong" People:

I only stressed the political affiliations to point out which party cares about people, and which one doesn't. I'm not assigning blame based on policital party. I'm pointing out that, due to Republican policies (chiefly illegal war in Iraq and subsequent seployement of Guard troops there, instead of home, where they needed to be - and budget cuts three years in a row to the Amry Corps of Engineers who were looking for ways to prevent just such a thing from happening...as well as budget cuts preventing levee repair from being made, in favor of pumping that money into Iraq) They were all Republican policies...and they left Democrats without the resources with which to primarily...PREVENT the disaster in the first place...secondarily, to minimize it's impact.

The Democrats were hamstrung by policies made beyond thier control, and were therefore left with insufficient resources with which to cope with the problem, both before Katrina, and during the aftermath of Katrina.

And the Democrats are rightly pissed off about this, and they are saying so. The Republicans? They attend an RNC fundraiser in San Diego, while folks in New Orleans are drowning...then they make an overflight two days after the fact, during which Bush reportedly threw some cake at them from Air Force One (sarcasm) and then, a full five days after Katrina left...THEN Bush finally gets off his duff, and his vacation...to DO SOMETHING to help them. By this time, of course, the grand royal ineptness of FEMA Director Mike "Baghdad" Brown, appointed by Bush, is on full display.

To suggest Bush bears no responsibility for this tragedy just angers me beyond my ability to tolerate. His policies led to the abandonment of studies that were being undertaken in the years prior to Katrina, which would have resulted in knowing how they could defend the city against just such an eventuality. His policies led to the levees in need of repair not being repaired. His policies led to 35 percent of Louisiana's NG personnel to be in Iraq when this happened...instead of in Louisiana, where they needed to be...doing that for which they were initially trained, and that for which they actually volunteered to do...help out their fellow Louisianans during a time of natural disaster. His policies led to loads of money that could have prevented, or at least lessened, the impact of Katrina...to be diverted to the illegal war effort in Iraq.
Those extra NG personnel could have been used to drive busses before Katrina, to evacuate many who had not the personal resources to evacuate themselves. Those extra NG personnel could have been used to quickly restore law, order, and authority in that blighted region. Instead, they are fighting an illegal war in Iraq.
I'm not laying ALL of the blame at Bush's feet, but it is about damn time that sanctimonious bastard owned up to making a mistake, any mistake, whatsoever...and it is time his supporters did, too. Just for once, I want Bush to take his share of the blame, which he, once again, and not surprisingly, seems unwilling to do.

What ever happened to the days of guys like Truman who said "The buck stops here?" What ever happened to a guy like JFK, who, during the Cuban Missile Crisis....and then The Bay of Pigs, had the intestinal fortitude to stand up before the American public and say, "I really screwed the pooch on this one, America...I screwed it bad. Now it's time to fix it!" And then JFK got to work.
Under Bush, nothing gets done, because...before anything can be fixed, you first have to recognize that it is broken. Bush seems unwilling to even recognize the goddamn thing is broken...and refuses to see his own hand in some of the breakdown.
Just once, I want to hear Bush say, "listen, america...I screwed up. I'm sorry. Now, 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing to have, but we need to move forward now...this is how I am going to fix it...and do my best to make sure it never happens again!" THAT IS A LEADER!!

No, it would not make me like Bush, I hate him...I hate him on General Principles, and nothing he could ever do would make me like him, or agree with him on virtually anything. I am willing to own up to my own biases. But it WOULD earn the man a little shred of respect from me...the fact that he sucked up, took his share of the blame for this tragedy, and said, okay...it's broken...now is the time to fix it, and make sure it doesn't break again, and this is how I am going to do that." wouldn't make me like him, but I'd have to give grudging respect for him if he did that.

Because that is what a real leader would do. a real leader would recognize nothing can be fixed until you first admit the fucking thing is broken! And that, while, in hindsight, you can see your hand in part of the creating of the problem...you now want to be a part of the solution!

And that is all I am asking from Bush and his supporters. For once...just once...acknowledge the goddam thing is broken!! And actually ACT like you care (even if you don't - fake it till you make it.)

Ah sweat controversy....

I don't vote. But if I did vote, it wouldn't be for the black woman. America just isn't ready for a minority president.

Interesting.

For Americans, a slight majority vote in favour of a black woman over a white man.

For those who are not Americans, a strong majority vote in favour of a black woman over a white man.

Let us not forget about a fifth of Americans, also 10% of total voters, do not vote in favour of any of the choices.

What were you trying to observe and/or prove, Rotavia? Forgive me if you answered this somewhere, but I did not want to look through all of that.

I don't vote. But if I did vote, it wouldn't be for the black woman. America just isn't ready for a minority president.

If we waited "till America was ready" for any progress to be made...we'd still have slavery, or at least Jim-Crow type segregation...and I shudder to imagine what would happen to GLBT people like me. it's bad enough already, and "America isn't ready for us."

Well, too damn bad, America. Get over yourselves, and GET ready! We're tired of being walked on, trampled down, and constantly kept in a second-class-citizen status.

When, good sir...do you think America would EVER "be ready" for a minority President?

Oh, wait...we had a minority President. 2000-2004, we had one. The majority of people voted for Gore, he got more popular votes.

Oh, you meant MINORITY President (sarcasm)

Black or White no matter.
But I would never vote for a Woman.

The one most socially conservative and....oh....same views...hmm....*flips a coin but it lands standing up* Meh...

I'd vote for Charles Manson. Just to shake things up, you know?

Interesting.

For Americans, a slight majority vote in favour of a black woman over a white man.

For those who are not Americans, a strong majority vote in favour of a black woman over a white man.

Let us not forget about a fifth of Americans, also 10% of total voters, do not vote in favour of any of the choices.

What were you trying to observe and/or prove, Rotavia? Forgive me if you answered this somewhere, but I did not want to look through all of that.
I'm looking to observe more how people react on a purely racial level.

Pretend they are both have the exact same views and it is a general election.

What do you mean "pretend"? This is a US election we're talking about, right? :D

Seriously, though, I'd probably go with the woman; there's a higher probability that she'd have more experience with "real life".

If we waited "till America was ready" for any progress to be made...we'd still have slavery, or at least Jim-Crow type segregation...and I shudder to imagine what would happen to GLBT people like me. it's bad enough already, and "America isn't ready for us."

Well, too damn bad, America. Get over yourselves, and GET ready! We're tired of being walked on, trampled down, and constantly kept in a second-class-citizen status.

When, good sir...do you think America would EVER "be ready" for a minority President?

Oh, wait...we had a minority President. 2000-2004, we had one. The majority of people voted for Gore, he got more popular votes.

Oh, you meant MINORITY President (sarcasm)
Good call, I'd add to my signature but I'm only jsut this side of legal as is...

This is exactly the kind of situation where I'd probably bring up the 'donkey' vote....

Since they both have the same views, it really doesn't matter who goes in.

Then again, I might be inclined to vote for the female just for the hell of it.

Black or White no matter.
But I would never vote for a Woman.

I am shocked and disturbed, how would you feel if I said that I wouldn't vote for you because you have a deformed lump on your head?

You probably do.

If both candidates are identical why would I waste my time voting at all?

Of course, this is impossible. Both candidates cannot be identical because even if they had the same exact views on everything, they would still have a different background and different personalities. I would vote based on those traits but only if the other people up for election (senators, congressmen, propositions, etc.) matter enough to bother taking time out to vote at all.

I'm not American and I would vote for The White Male

I'm not American, but I would vote for the candidate with the best policies etc, not necessarily their sex and colour. You're voting for the leader of your country: surely you would vote on something other than their ethnicity and sex?

Whichever is taller.

Is it just me or has this split down party lines? Maybe it's the red and blue thing...

"If their views were different I don't even think the racists would bias their votes based on the race of the prospective president. For instance if the black woman wanted to get rid of affirmative action, I don't think racist would vote for the pro-affirmative action white male.

Read the whole thread. The qualifier...bullshit qualifier that it is...is that their views on the issues are exactly the same. With two political parties this will never actually happen, which is why it's a bullshit qualifier, but, nevertheless, the original poster stipulated this as a qualifier."

Page 11 of 13

Are Americans ready for a minority president? Is that even a relevant question?

The relevant question is.

Do americans base their votes on petty foibles or on the actual politics at hand?

Racism being the petty foible in this case. The answer seems to be yes as 90% of americans didn't vote for the correct answer.

I'm looking to observe more how people react on a purely racial level.
Then why did you insert the second control factor (gender) into the equation. If all you wanted to examine was racer, itshould've been a Black Man and a White Man...or a Black Woamn and a White Woman.

You now have two separate control factors running, hardly a methodology I would recommend for getting good, scietifically-useful data.

I'm not American, but I would vote for the candidate with the best policies etc, not necessarily their sex and colour. You're voting for the leader of your country: surely you would vote on something other than their ethnicity and sex?

You might wish so, but most Americans ARE superficial enough to choose style over substance.

a lot of folks who voted for Bush over Kerry cited that they fely they be better able to "tip back a beer" with Bush rather than Kerry!

You might wish so, but most Americans ARE superficial enough to choose style over substance.

a lot of folks who voted for Bush over Kerry cited that they fely they be better able to "tip back a beer" with Bush rather than Kerry!

You disparage beer??!?!? YOU MONSTER!!

http://www.adweek.com/aw/images/best_spots/best_spots_04/0319_bs18.gif

...I would kill everyone in this forum for one drop of sweet, tasty beer!

Then why did you insert the second control factor (gender) into the equation. If all you wanted to examine was racer, itshould've been a Black Man and a White Man...or a Black Woamn and a White Woman.

You now have two separate control factors running, hardly a methodology I would recommend for getting good, scietifically-useful data.
Sorry, I missworded my response. I wanted to observe both of these together. Namely because of the extremely negative responses I seemed to get in previous polls and topics on either gender or race.

Just to see where you stand, assuming it's down to two candidates. Both nearly identical on the issues. One is a Black Woman the other a white male, who has your vote?
Whichever one I think will do the best job. DUH!

Black Woman for some variety, as long as it's Oprah.

It's not that I wouldn't vote for a black person - I would just never vote for a woman. I mean, we can't be going to war every 28 days...

I make this post in Honor of President Ronald Reagan who loved his native land and Nancy Reagan for they loved and love each other deeply.

I make this post in Honor of President Ronald Reagan loved America his native land and Nancy Reagan for they loved and love each other deeply.

I make this post in Honor of President Ronald Reagan loved America his native land and Nancy Reagan for they loved and love each other deeply.
Didn't Reagan die ages ago...?

He died a while ago, and I voted for him on the thread The Best President of the United States as the Best President of the United States.

My previous post refers to some previous posts on this thread on President Ronal Reagan, I wanted to improve on my post.

He died a while ago, and I voted for him on the thread The Best President of the United States as the Best President of the United States.

My previous post refers to some previous posts on this thread on President Ronal Reagan, I wanted to improve on my post.
Ah, so me thinks you doth be a Reaganite? -Asks yonder Clintonite.... :D

Depends. Is the White Male Christopher Walken?

I can't say I would prefer either because the color and gender of the hypothetical candidates is as relevant to what kind of job they'll do as their shoe size.

Edit: What's really being asked is whether race and gender make a difference in who a person is. The answer is no.

It's not that I wouldn't vote for a black person - I would just never vote for a woman. I mean, we can't be going to war every 28 days...

Can you possibly BE any more misogynistic??

So assume the woman in question is post-menopausal. Would you vote for her then?

Jesus Christ, I cannot believe that someone actually made the above statement to which I am replying! This level of misogyny is just freaking SICK!!!

Can you possibly BE any more misogynistic??

So assume the woman in question is post-menopausal. Would you vote for her then?

Jesus Christ, I cannot believe that someone actually made the above statement to which I am replying! This level of misogyny is just freaking SICK!!!

Lyric can I tell you something. Sarcasm is generally not adequately portrayed online. There are only two reasons why someone would make a post like the one you quoted. One they are a troll and are just getting a rise out of it. Or two it was a sarcastic reference to a skit that might be from chapelle's show or some other sketch comedy show. When I read the post it seems like option #2 because of the reference only to the making war every 28 days joke. You need to settle down.

Even though I am a native Cuban anti Fidel Castro proud carrying member of the Miami Mafia and reaganite, anti Jesse Jackson can we still be NS friends?

You are welcomed to telegram me anytime on any subject,
as I always welcome all nations.

I would vote for a black man or woman as long as they are republican, or I would consider a Libertarian, not a democrat.

Lyric can I tell you something. Sarcasm is generally not adequately portrayed online. There are only two reasons why someone would make a post like the one you quoted. One they are a troll and are just getting a rise out of it. Or two it was a sarcastic reference to a skit that might be from chapelle's show or some other sketch comedy show. When I read the post it seems like option #2 because of the reference only to the making war every 28 days joke. You need to settle down.

It isn't funny. And there's the nice little :rolleyes: icon someone can use if they want to express sarcasm. that didn't look like sarcasm to me, it looked like a cheap misogynistic shot. I'm sick and tired of the misogynistic CRAP that men think is funny.

I'd vote for the white male, not because of the candidates themselves, but because the party behind the black woman could possibly be using her to appeal to a wider range of voters or show that they are more equal minded... and that just bugs me. Reverse racism or something... wish it wasn't 12 AM so I could try and type more coherently.

Mind you, that's just a possiblity.

If the two candidates were identical except for race and gender I'd stay at home and save time. ;)

I wouldn't care, if they're exactly the same besides the race/gender thing. Voting for someone because she's a black female is, in my eyes, no better than voting for someone because he's a white male.

I guess if they were identical on all issues, I would have to decide on personal sympathies (not a general basis for political decisions for me, but the only one left, really).
And as I know that I tend to find women more likeable than men, the woman would get my vote.

Btw, this thread kind of reminds me of that Will&Grace episode where they decide to support the female candidate for an election. On finding out that she's against homosexuals, they back the gay candidate. I can't remember what was wrong with his politics then, but they end up voting for the black candidate... :rolleyes:

Even though I am a native Cuban anti Fidel Castro proud carrying member of the Miami Mafia and reaganite, anti Jesse Jackson can we still be NS friends?

You are welcomed to telegram me anytime on any subject,
as I always welcome all nations.
Of course we can, as long as you don't mind a pinko liberal, card carrying ACLU, Clintonite, pro-choicer...?

That is a heck of a friendship, I accept.
Send me a telegram.

You're a biggger person than I am, Rotovia. I cannot be friends with anyone whose politics are diametrically opposed to my own. They piss me off too much.

IGNORED: There is intentionally no middle road. The only thing you have go on is their gender and race.

Then you have nothing to go on. If both are identical on the issues, and you honestly believe both are equally capable of leading the country, then there is no difference.

Your question is completely meaningless. Pretending there is no middle road doesn't mean there isn't one.

:rolleyes:

Cynthia McKinney


the best, by far person in either house of congress



-WM

..i would vote because of someones issues and polotics not the colour of their skin..im not American

Just to see where you stand, assuming it's down to two candidates. Both nearly identical on the issues. One is a Black Woman the other a white male, who has your vote?

why does an election have to be about race why not about the truth who cares what color or what sex think about it

I wont vote on this POLL...and I would not vote on this election...Cos I do not have enough Information about the candidates

You're a biggger person than I am, Rotovia. I cannot be friends with anyone whose politics are diametrically opposed to my own. They piss me off too much.

Then you only help further the us versus them attitude. Your not the answer to the solution only just another part of the problem.

Pretend they are both have the exact same views and it is a general election.

Pretend they both have the same views? Oh, the irony of an observer watching the American elections...

Depends really on who the black woman was. If it was Oprah, then the black female. If it was Condi Rice on the other hand...

Just to see where you stand, assuming it's down to two candidates. Both nearly identical on the issues. One is a Black Woman the other a white male, who has your vote?

a combination of whichever one seemed most trustworthy and had the most experience. If they are equal in everyway, I'd probably go with the black woman just because it has never been done before and I think it would make it easier for others to break the color and gender line in politics

Clearly the white male is the right choice; I don't trust black people.

I would vote for the Black Female seeing as how i am a strong black woman myself. It would be interesting to see this happen since we have never had a woman president or a black president

Oh, come on, lets get down to the REAL question you're asking:

are you....

A) A sexist. I'd vote for the dude.
B) A racist. I'd vote for the white.
C) Both. I'd vote for the white dude.
D) A regular person. I'd vote for the woman.

Oh yeah if Oprah ran, I would pick her over ANYONE. NOT KIDDING.

You're a biggger person than I am, Rotovia. I cannot be friends with anyone whose politics are diametrically opposed to my own. They piss me off too much.
I'm very much BIGGER ;) then you Lyric :p

If I was an American I'd probably vote for whomever foxnews sided with.

Your question is completely meaningless. Pretending there is no middle road doesn't mean there isn't one.

:rolleyes:
It's a hypothetical, if I say there's no up, the there's up.

I'd vote for the democrat. But forgetting specific parties I'd go with the most liberal, or just the one I liked the best. I wouldnt vote for Halle Berry though cos she pisses me off. But if there was a good candidate then sure I'd vote.

I'd vote for the democrat. But forgetting specific parties I'd go with the most liberal, or just the one I liked the best. I wouldnt vote for Halle Berry though cos she pisses me off. But if there was a good candidate then sure I'd vote.
I don't know why noone has thought of this yet. But here's a logical thought. The Republicans cannot run a black candidate, because they win on a Southern vote and the risk of loosing this ground is too great. The Democrats on the other hand would have little problem using it to lever minority votes to regain Florida and the Mid-West. Especially with less concern for rightist votes in the North. Ergo the Black Woman is probally a Democrat. Just a thought.

Then you only help further the us versus them attitude. Your not the answer to the solution only just another part of the problem.
Maybe so. But all I know is that Bush supporters really piss me off. Any friendship would be very short-lived.

Clearly the white male is the right choice; I don't trust black people.

Please tell me you don't really mean that!

I'm a white person, but...to not trust someone just because of their skin color...that is an alien concept to me.

I'm very much BIGGER ;) then you Lyric :p
Well, now...I'm at a decided advatage in any contest measuring what I think you were getting at here, seeing as I'm a girl... ;)

Well, now...I'm at a decided advatage in any contest measuring what I think you were getting at here, seeing as I'm a girl... ;)
Yay! I ahev a bigger dick then a girl! ....wait....crap.... ;) :D

Please tell me you don't really mean that!

I'm a white person, but...to not trust someone just because of their skin color...that is an alien concept to me.

Partially joking, partially serious. You've gotta meet me to understand me, let's put it that way.

Partially joking, partially serious. You've gotta meet me to understand me, let's put it that way.

Well, if you really believe what you said that caused me to respond to you in the first place, I'm not so sure I would WANT to meet you. Nothing personal, but I choose not to associate with those who make decisions about people based on things other than the content of their character.