NationStates Jolt Archive

Other than 0.16mm?

Length. .40 cal and 10mm are about the samegirth but not the same length. Actually the 10mm is a much more powerful round. This si why it is no longer sold as an anti-prsonel weapon. It overpenetrates and does not end doing asmuch tissue dammage as the .40 S&W. 10mm is primarilly a hunting round now. Realize that a 5.56mm is basically the same girth as .22cal but much longer/ much more powder.

Other than 0.16mm?

The 10mm was what originally came out as an intermediate cartridge between the 9mm and 45, however it is probably one of the HARDEST and most powerful handgun cartridges out their.

The .40 smith and wesson is a shortened 10mm.

I agree with the previous two posters, and would add that, as a practical matter, the 10mm (at least to me) feels like it as a bit more recoil than the .40. I used to have a Glock 35 chambered in .40, and a another pistol chambered in 10mm. The 10mm seemed to have a lot more kick, but then, I was hardly an expert shooter.

The length of the 10mm bullet is longer than the .40 S&W (which is why some have dubbed it the ".40 Short & Wimpy").

10mm is a rather rare round, you don't see many guns chambered for it.

NOTE: Another difference between rounds is the length of the cartridge and the amount of powder that is packed in. That's why the .357 Magnum is generally considered more powerful than the 9mm Parabellum, even though their projectiles are relatively the same width; it's because the magnum has more powder, and thus, more "oomph".

Well I wouldn't call the 10mm RARE, but it is less common. You often see glocks chambered to accept it.

The length of the 10mm bullet is longer than the .40 S&W ".

I would say that the length of the cartridge and capacity of the casing is different, not the length of the bullet. I could be wrong, though.

Well I wouldn't call the 10mm RARE, but it is less common. You often see glocks chambered to accept it.

Yeah, I plan on getting a glock 29 when I turn 21(I would get the 20, but it uses 15 round magazines, illegal in california).

The 10mm is a very powerfull round so powerfull it cracks 1911a1 slides with repeated use with full power ammo , it came out in the colt delta elitae but it cracked so many slides and had so many problems colt dropped it from there line, they came out with the 10mm midd load but the 40 was better.

It's been a while since I looked at 'em, but the .40S&W is a weaker version of the 10mm designed to be used in less rugged pistol. A 10mm pistol is one heavy piece of iron (a properly manufatured one at least), a .40 is lighter and more convenient to carry around, hence it's popularity with people who hope to carry it far more than use it.

As for the cartiridges themselves, the bullet is the same in both cartridges, the difference is in the case, working from memory: the .40 uses a straight case while the 10mm is slightly tappered; the .40 case is significantly shorter than the 10mm, resulting in a shorter cartridge; the .40 uses a smaller primer than the 10mm, both in power and diameter; and of course the 10mm has more powder in it than the .40 (although there is a 10mm light cartridge which uses the same amount of powder as the .40), 1 think its 220 grains versus 180.

I don't recall hearing about a 10mm midd cartridge but I suspect it might be the same as what I recall being the 10mm light (FBI) cartridge.

"The metric system is the tool of the devil. My car gets forty rods to the hogshead and thats the way I likes it!" -Abe Simpson

Yeah, I plan on getting a glock 29 when I turn 21(I would get the 20, but it uses 15 round magazines, illegal in california).
What's the point of having a light and compact 10mm? Overpenetration+ wrist wrenching recoil+ poor accuracy? If you want a hard-hitting self-defense gun, get yourself a .357 Magnum, one of those Airlite or Titanium wheelguns, or a .357 SIG if revolvers aren't your thing.

http://www.thegunzone.com/10v40.html

(Obviously written by a gun person)

What's the point of having a light and compact 10mm? Overpenetration+ wrist wrenching recoil+ poor accuracy? If you want a hard-hitting self-defense gun, get yourself a .357 Magnum, one of those Airlite or Titanium wheelguns, or a .357 SIG if revolvers aren't your thing.

It will be my home defense gun. I'm a big guy, I'll learn to handle the recoil. And when I shoot to defend myself, I want the guy going down. There is no such thing as over-penetration.

I would get the glock 20, but magazines with more than 10 rounds are illegal in california. Btw, do they make 10mm hollowpoint? Are they good?

There is no such thing as over-penetration.



I don't know if he was on the level or not, but an instructor once described "over-penetration" to me when I was taking a defensive shooting class as part of Concealed Carry Permit requirement.

According to him, a round "overpenetrates" when it passes through the target without delivering the entirety of its kinetic energy to the assailant. This results in a small, narrow wound channel and comparatively less hydrostatic shock. Overpenetration causes less tissue trauma, less bleeding, and a smaller chance of a decisive effect on an organ. The instructor gave the example of a fully jacketed roundball 9mm as a round that has a higher chance of exhibiting overpenetration. Lastly, overpenetration allows the shot to continue through and past the attacker, and potentially through walls, windows, and bystanders.

Conversely, a round that expands or fragments in the assailant will deliver a greater portion of its energy into his/her body, creates a wider wound channel, and increase the chance of a debilitating or terminal trauma effect.
The Federal "hydroschock" or Speer "gold dot", which can be obtained in various calibers, have a higher chance of causing this kind of effect.

The instructor noted that these kind of expanding rounds are less effective against personal body armor, but advised that comparatively few attackers would be so equipped.

Has anybody had any training/experience that could confirm or deny of this?

I don't know if he was on the level or not, but an instructor once described "over-penetration" to me when I was taking a defensive shooting class as part of Concealed Carry Permit requirement.

According to him, a round "overpenetrates" when it passes through the target without delivering the entirety of its kinetic energy to the assailant. This results in a small, narrow wound channel and comparatively less hydrostatic shock. Overpenetration causes less tissue trauma, less bleeding, and a smaller chance of a decisive effect on an organ. The instructor gave the example of a fully jacketed roundball 9mm as a round that has a higher chance of exhibiting overpenetration. Lastly, overpenetration allows the shot to continue through and past the attacker, and potentially through walls, windows, and bystanders.

Conversely, a round that expands or fragments in the assailant will deliver a greater portion of its energy into his/her body, creates a wider wound channel, and increase the chance of a debilitating or terminal trauma effect.
The Federal "hydroschock" or Speer "gold dot", which can be obtained in various calibers, have a higher chance of causing this kind of effect.

The instructor noted that these kind of expanding rounds are less effective against personal body armor, but advised that comparatively few attackers would be so equipped.

Has anybody had any training/experience that could confirm or deny of this?

Hence why I would like to have some hollow-points :P

Though when dealing with 10mm, I think even with "overpenetration", there would be enough energy to knock them flat on their asses.

I don't know if he was on the level or not, but an instructor once described "over-penetration" to me when I was taking a defensive shooting class as part of Concealed Carry Permit requirement.

According to him, a round "overpenetrates" when it passes through the target without delivering the entirety of its kinetic energy to the assailant. This results in a small, narrow wound channel and comparatively less hydrostatic shock. Overpenetration causes less tissue trauma, less bleeding, and a smaller chance of a decisive effect on an organ. The instructor gave the example of a fully jacketed roundball 9mm as a round that has a higher chance of exhibiting overpenetration. Lastly, overpenetration allows the shot to continue through and past the attacker, and potentially through walls, windows, and bystanders.

Conversely, a round that expands or fragments in the assailant will deliver a greater portion of its energy into his/her body, creates a wider wound channel, and increase the chance of a debilitating or terminal trauma effect.
The Federal "hydroschock" or Speer "gold dot", which can be obtained in various calibers, have a higher chance of causing this kind of effect.

The instructor noted that these kind of expanding rounds are less effective against personal body armor, but advised that comparatively few attackers would be so equipped.

Has anybody had any training/experience that could confirm or deny of this?

I have some experience with this, I'll try to clear it up without making it too complicated - it's actually a very complex subject.

There are basically two schools of thought on penetration, and this is one - the idea that a wide wound channel and penetration just short of exiting the target is the ideal. Superficially it makes sense, but it doesn't work out in the field.

Hunters have far more experience collectively with projectile lethality than policemen, i.e. far more animals are killed than humans, and it has been studied for centuries. Animals are much harder to kill than people, so if it works for game it will surely work on humans.

Summary:

There is no question that full penetration is better than partial. Clearly a wide wound channel is better than narrow. Heavy and wide bullets kill better than smaller and lighter, and will perform well even at moderate velocity. The bullets need not even be expanding if the nose configuration is correct, provided the projectile is wide and heavy enough.

A few points to consider: most dangerous African game is killed with non-expanding bullets, typically greater than .40 caliber and heavy bullets. Smaller, non-dangerous game, is shot with the same rifles with adequate performance. African hunters abhore expanding bullets.

Many pistol hunters are shooting bear, hogs, and other large and dangerous game with .45 caliber and larger handguns with heavy non-expanding cast lead bullets. Most use an LBT-style which has a very wide flat nose. Performance is excellent.

The instructor gave the 9mm ball as an example of over-penetration. It's a known poor killer - small diameter, light bullet, reasonably fast muzzle velocity. Take the .45 ACP at much lower muzzle velocity with a heavy 200 grain bullet and you'll have a good killer and still over-penetrate. Over-penetration by itself is not detrimental.

There's no kill like overkill. Where the bullet goes after it penetrates the target can be a problem if you live in an apartment, so use care.