NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.newschannel5.tv/2005/9/1/4255/T...n-the-Astrodome

QUOTE
Taking refuge in the Astrodome
Thursday, September 01, 2005 Updated: 11:32 AM

HOUSTON -- Thousands of refugees of Hurricane Katrina were transported to the Astrodome in Houston this week. In an extreme act of looting, one group actually stole a bus to escape ravaged areas in Louisiana.

About 100 people packed into the stolen bus. They were the first to enter the Houston Astrodome, but they weren't exactly welcomed.

The big yellow school bus wasn't expected or approved to pass through the stadium's gates. Randy Nathan, who was on the bus, said they were desperate to get out of town.

"If it werent for him right there," he said, "we'd still be in New Orleans underwater. He got the bus for us."

Eighteen-year-old Jabbor Gibson jumped aboard the bus as it sat abandoned on a street in New Orleans and took control.

"I just took the bus and drove all the way here...seven hours straight,' Gibson admitted. "I hadn't ever drove a bus."

The teen packed it full of complete strangers and drove to Houston. He beat thousands of evacuees slated to arrive there.

"It's better than being in New Orleans," said fellow passenger Albert McClaud, "we want to be somewhere where we're safe."

During a long and impatient delay, children popped their heads out of bus windows and mothers clutched their babies.

One 8-day-old infant spent the first days of his life surrounded by chaos. He's one of the many who are homeless and hungry.

Authorities eventually allowed the renegade passengers inside the dome. But the 18-year-old who ensured their safety could find himself in a world of trouble for stealing the school bus.

"I dont care if I get blamed for it ," Gibson said, "as long as I saved my people."

Sixty legally chartered buses were expected to arrive in Houston throughout the night. Thousands of people will be calling the Astrodome "home," at least for now.

Yeah, because George Bush was the one who built the city under sea level. Oh, wait, I forgot about that weather control device the president has; yeah, what a bastard, not using it on the hurricane. :rolleyes:

This wasn't Bush's fault. It was the fault of the City of New Orleans and the state of Lousiana for not properly preparing and neglecting to upgrade their infrastructure. If anything, Bush has been trying to get things done; hell, he came back earlier than Congress. While I question his refusal of aid, I applaud him for his growing control over the oil price shocks.

I sure hope that guy who stole that bus was summarily executed. Natural disasters don't trump property rights.

Yeah, because George Bush was the one who built the city under sea level. Oh, wait, I forgot about that weather control device the president has; yeah, what a bastard, not using it on the hurricane. :rolleyes:
when Bush cut the money to upgrade the levees he essentially told the people of NewOrleans to drop dead--correct

This wasn't Bush's fault. It was the fault of the City of New Orleans and the state of Lousiana for not properly preparing and neglecting to upgrade their infrastructure. If anything, Bush has been trying to get things done; hell, he came back earlier than Congress. While I question his refusal of aid, I applaud him for his growing control over the oil price shocks.

Oh fuck that bullshit.

Bush cut funding for Louisiana's flood control months before this happened. He pretty much fucked these people, and you know it.

I sure hope that guy who stole that bus was summarily executed. Natural disasters don't trump property rights.
That's funny, I wasn't aware Louisiana had the death penalty for theft.

Good for that guy. At least he has the sense of mind to help others as well as himself out rather than sit around and wait to be evacuated by an obviously incompetent force. (Not bashing Bush, just saying what's been set up is terrible compared to what it should be.)

This wasn't Bush's fault. It was the fault of the City of New Orleans and the state of Lousiana for not properly preparing and neglecting to upgrade their infrastructure. If anything, Bush has been trying to get things done; hell, he came back earlier than Congress. While I question his refusal of aid, I applaud him for his growing control over the oil price shocks.
the city/state has been on their knees BEGGING Bush to fund the clinton era upgrading of the levees but all their pleas fell on deaf ears since they werent rich enough to be on Bushs radar--yes Bush is exhibiting alot of control over oil prices--they keep rising :rolleyes:

I sure hope that guy who stole that bus was summarily executed. Natural disasters don't trump property rights.

A world where science went too far, there's no way to survive. Why can't we get this thing straightened out, 'cause I wanna stay alive...

Oh fuck that bullshit.
Bush cut funding for Louisiana's flood control months before this happened. He pretty much fucked these people, and you know it.

So by that logic Clinton is responsible for 9/11, or Oklaholma City, or even the USS Cole because he cut the intelligence budget?

We didn't know this would happen, so it's ridiculous to blame Bush for something no one thought would happen. Trying to blame Bush is using a disaster for political gain.

That's funny, I wasn't aware Louisiana had the death penalty for theft.
Therein lies the beauty of Martial Law? The death penalty is now for anything!

I sure hope that guy who stole that bus was summarily executed. Natural disasters don't trump property rights.
I assume your being sarcastic?

the city/state has been on their knees BEGGING Bush to fund the clinton era upgrading of the levees but all their pleas fell on deaf ears since they werent rich enough to be on Bushs radar

Seeing as how there has never been a hurricane there, that response is perfectly rational. Bush can't see the future, and he wanted to save money on something seen as unnecessary; Clinton did the same with the intelligence agencies, and I don't blame him for the 9/11 attacks. This is politics, and it's grossly unfair.

Oh fuck that bullshit.

Bush cut funding for Louisiana's flood control months before this happened. He pretty much fucked these people, and you know it.

It is Congress that controls spending. The administration cannot on its own cut spending or increase it and is required to spend no more or no less then what Congress dictates.

Good for that guy. At least he has the sense of mind to help others as well as himself out rather than sit around and wait to be evacuated by an obviously incompetent force. (Not bashing Bush, just saying what's been set up is terrible compared to what it should be.)
whats outrageous is that they considering filing charges against him how INSANE is that?

It is Congress that controls spending. The administration cannot on its own cut spending or increase it and is required to spend no more or no less then what Congress dictates.

And, as far as I recall the Democrats passed the budget without a single complaint about the cuts.

So by that logic Clinton is responsible for 9/11, or Oklaholma City, or even the USS Cole because he cut the intelligence budget?

We didn't know this would happen, so it's ridiculous to blame Bush for something no one thought would happen. Trying to blame Bush is using a disaster for political gain.

Yeah, they didn't know a CATEGORY FUCKING-FIVE HURRICANE would ravage lower Louisiana. Yeah.

I'm blaming Bush, because it's his fault the flood control funding was cut. And you're taking that Clinton comment way, waaaay out of context. Nothing he did could have made him "responsible" for those things.

So by that logic Clinton is responsible for 9/11, or Oklaholma City, or even the USS Cole because he cut the intelligence budget?

We didn't know this would happen, so it's ridiculous to blame Bush for something no one thought would happen. Trying to blame Bush is using a disaster for political gain.
actually 911 is Bushs baby

Seeing as how there has never been a hurricane there, that response is perfectly rational. Bush can't see the future, and he wanted to save money on something seen as unnecessary; Clinton did the same with the intelligence agencies, and I don't blame him for the 9/11 attacks. This is politics, and it's grossly unfair.

So, let's just let the flood control systems and dams rot, and the Mississippi will flood New Orleans, rather than a hurricane.

My problem with Bush's "handling" of the situation is that he obviously doesn't give two shits about it. If he did, he would've done something BEFORE the hurricane hit. Any other reasonable president sure as hell would have.

Yeah, they didn't know a CATEGORY FUCKING-FIVE HURRICANE would ravage lower Louisiana. Yeah.

No, they didn't know at the time of the budget. It simply wasn't taken in to account, and there's no way in hell those levees would have been upgraded by the time the hurricane hit. The construction could have made matters even worse.

I'm blaming Bush, because it's his fault the flood control funding was cut. And you're taking that Clinton comment way, waaaay out of context. Nothing he did could have made him "responsible" for those things.[/QUOTE]

No, it was his and the Democrats and Republicans in Congress that cut funding. They approved it, and without any complaint. Blaming Bush while giving Democrats a free pass is hypocrisy.

If we had kept the intelligence system and took Bin Laden, 9/11 could have been prevented. However, we didn't know it would happen and so I don't blame Clinton for what was a logical response to the end of the Cold War.

And, as far as I recall the Democrats passed the budget without a single complaint about the cuts.

Except from maybe the delegation from Louisiana itself.

Seeing as how there has never been a hurricane there, that response is perfectly rational. Bush can't see the future, and he wanted to save money on something seen as unnecessary; Clinton did the same with the intelligence agencies, and I don't blame him for the 9/11 attacks. This is politics, and it's grossly unfair.
of course you cant blame Clinton for 911 since it was Bush who ignored the 52 specific warnings concerning it and as for spending money on unnecessary things I think the $6 BILLION dollars a MONTH being wasted on Bush personal greed in Iraq is the ultimate example of that

No, they didn't know at the time of the budget.

You know exactly what I'm talking about. Your "kind" just loves to beat around the bush.

I hate dealing with this shit. I've had a bad day, and it's just gotten even worse.

So, let's just let the flood control systems and dams rot, and the Mississippi will flood New Orleans, rather than a hurricane.

Well, I didn't see anyone in Congress complain, so they're also at fault.

My problem with Bush's "handling" of the situation is that he obviously doesn't give two shits about it. If he did, he would've done something BEFORE the hurricane hit. Any other reasonable president sure as hell would have.

Yes, because he could see the hurricane coming ahead of time and knew exactly where it would hit. Even after it first made landfall as a Cat 1 the forecasters made a mistake in how long it would stay over Florida, with disasterous consequences.

Oh, and Congress took longer to reconvene than Bush took to leave Crawford.

http://www.newschannel5.tv/2005/9/1/4255/T...n-the-Astrodome

QUOTE
Taking refuge in the Astrodome
Thursday, September 01, 2005 Updated: 11:32 AM

HOUSTON -- Thousands of refugees of Hurricane Katrina were transported to the Astrodome in Houston this week. In an extreme act of looting, one group actually stole a bus to escape ravaged areas in Louisiana.

About 100 people packed into the stolen bus. They were the first to enter the Houston Astrodome, but they weren't exactly welcomed.

The big yellow school bus wasn't expected or approved to pass through the stadium's gates. Randy Nathan, who was on the bus, said they were desperate to get out of town.

"If it werent for him right there," he said, "we'd still be in New Orleans underwater. He got the bus for us."

Eighteen-year-old Jabbor Gibson jumped aboard the bus as it sat abandoned on a street in New Orleans and took control.

"I just took the bus and drove all the way here...seven hours straight,' Gibson admitted. "I hadn't ever drove a bus."

The teen packed it full of complete strangers and drove to Houston. He beat thousands of evacuees slated to arrive there.

"It's better than being in New Orleans," said fellow passenger Albert McClaud, "we want to be somewhere where we're safe."

During a long and impatient delay, children popped their heads out of bus windows and mothers clutched their babies.

One 8-day-old infant spent the first days of his life surrounded by chaos. He's one of the many who are homeless and hungry.

Authorities eventually allowed the renegade passengers inside the dome. But the 18-year-old who ensured their safety could find himself in a world of trouble for stealing the school bus.

"I dont care if I get blamed for it ," Gibson said, "as long as I saved my people."

Sixty legally chartered buses were expected to arrive in Houston throughout the night. Thousands of people will be calling the Astrodome "home," at least for now.

And I suppose he gassed up along the way.

It is Congress that controls spending. The administration cannot on its own cut spending or increase it and is required to spend no more or no less then what Congress dictates.
and congress majority is run by neocon extremists with the exact same priorities as Bush--besides Bush personally cut the funding too I believe

So, let's just let the flood control systems and dams rot, and the Mississippi will flood New Orleans, rather than a hurricane.

My problem with Bush's "handling" of the situation is that he obviously doesn't give two shits about it. If he did, he would've done something BEFORE the hurricane hit. Any other reasonable president sure as hell would have.

Bush declared Louisiana, Missiissippi and Alabama to be disaster areas before Katrina hit and that's very rare to do meaning declaring a disaster, which frees up federal funds, before the disaster actually takes place.

You know exactly what I'm talking about. Your "kind" just loves to beat around the bush.
I hate dealing with this shit. I've had a bad day, and it's just gotten even worse.

My "kind", what does that mean? I seriously hope you're not lumping me with the Republicans; I hold little love for their kind, but I like keeping facts straight.

And I'm sorry if you had a bad day. I never want to antagonize you or make things worse for you by my statements.

Yes, because he could see the hurricane coming ahead of time and knew exactly where it would hit. Even after it first made landfall as a Cat 1 the forecasters made a mistake in how long it would stay over Florida, with disasterous consequences.

Oh, and Congress took longer to reconvene than Bush took to leave Crawford.

Two days ahead of time, he could've done something. He could've called for FEMA support before the hurricane actually hit New Orleans. They knew it would hit, and he did fuck-all.

And, as far as I recall the Democrats passed the budget without a single complaint about the cuts.
of course--the repubs monopolize all three branches of govt and the media and everything is still the dems fault :rolleyes:

My "kind", what does that mean? I seriously hope you're not lumping me with the Republicans; I hold little love for their kind, but I like keeping facts straight.

And I'm sorry if you had a bad day. I never want to antagonize you or make things worse for you by my statements.

You know what I mean by "kind"... I'm not going to get any deeper in this, lest I be banned.

As for that last sentence --- Hahaha, nice :D.

and congress majority is run by neocon extremists with the exact same priorities as Bush--besides Bush personally cut the funding too I believe

I am unaware of the Democrat leadership in Congress raising any kind of complaints about the cuts.

I am unaware of the Democrat leadership in Congress raising any kind of complaints about the cuts.

That's because they're a bunch of spineless shits.

of course you cant blame Clinton for 911 since it was Bush who ignored the 52 specific warnings concerning it and as for spending money on unnecessary things I think the $6 BILLION dollars a MONTH being wasted on Bush personal greed in Iraq is the ultimate example of that

Clinton slashed intelligence spending and refused Bin Laden, and did almost nothing after 1993. I don't blame him for it because it simply wasn't his fault; he didn't know, and was acting in a perfectly reasonable way given the end of the Cold War.

However, blaming someone for something that occurs and is worsened by their lack of foresight for something that isn't even considered a major possibility is irrational, and that is why I used the Clinton comparison.

of course--the repubs monopolize all three branches of govt and everything is still the dems fault :rolleyes:

There's enough blame to go around and it goes back decades.

You know what I mean by "kind"... I'm not going to get any deeper in this, lest I be banned.As for that last sentence --- Hahaha, nice :D.

My apologies. I just don't want to cause any trouble for anyone.

This wasn't Bush's fault. It was the fault of the City of New Orleans and the state of Lousiana for not properly preparing and neglecting to upgrade their infrastructure. If anything, Bush has been trying to get things done; hell, he came back earlier than Congress. While I question his refusal of aid, I applaud him for his growing control over the oil price shocks.

So I guess the fact that they asked the State Government Repeatedly for help in upgrading the levees and the fact that the funding that they did have was cut by Bush to almost 10% of what they needed is their fault also.

And the fact on LAST Thursday the Mayor of New Orleans asked for 5 million from the Federal Government to help pay for buses to evacuate the city, and was ignored is their own fault also.

Yeah, they didn't know a CATEGORY FUCKING-FIVE HURRICANE would ravage lower Louisiana. Yeah.

I'm blaming Bush, because it's his fault the flood control funding was cut. And you're taking that Clinton comment way, waaaay out of context. Nothing he did could have made him "responsible" for those things.
they knew DAM well NO was vulnerable to a storm like this but Bush prefered that rich developers instead should have this land and didnt care about protecting the lives of the poor that currently occupied it

of course--the repubs monopolize all three branches of govt and the media and everything is still the dems fault :rolleyes:

Oh, trust me, both parties are at fault. I just don't want people to forget that and embark on blaming one side or another; I don't like the Republican power monopoly but I like accountability to fall where it's deserved.

So by that logic Clinton is responsible for 9/11, or Oklaholma City, or even the USS Cole because he cut the intelligence budget?

We didn't know this would happen, so it's ridiculous to blame Bush for something no one thought would happen. Trying to blame Bush is using a disaster for political gain.

Except we did know this would happen. Warnings about what would happen to New Orleans if it suffered a direct hit from a strong hurricane have been in existence for quite some time. FEMA issued a report in 2001 listing a hurricane hitting New Orleans as one of the top three most likely catastrophes to hit the United States.

In response, Bush cut funding.

Bush declared Louisiana, Missiissippi and Alabama to be disaster areas before Katrina hit and that's very rare to do meaning declaring a disaster, which frees up federal funds, before the disaster actually takes place.
Too damn bad he didn't feel like giving federal funds to NO before hand so they could strengthen their levee system.

My apologies. I just don't want to cause any trouble for anyone.

I've learned something today: You're pretty funny.

Clinton slashed intelligence spending and refused Bin Laden, and did almost nothing after 1993. I don't blame him for it because it simply wasn't his fault; he didn't know, and was acting in a perfectly reasonable way given the end of the Cold War.

However, blaming someone for something that occurs and is worsened by their lack of foresight for something that isn't even considered a major possibility is irrational, and that is why I used the Clinton comparison.
Well, that's the thing. A hurricane in the gulf is hardly a rarity. In fact, it's a regularity. It was only a matter of time before one hit New Orleans. People were writing about this as long ago as the 1950s and as recently as 2001. The Army Corps of Engineers considered it a very strong possibility.

Now, as far as Clinton goes, you could possibly say the same about a terror attack on US soil. I'm not too up on that stuff so I won't comment.

Is this the latest incarnation of TRA?

Oh, trust me, both parties are at fault. I just don't want people to forget that and embark on blaming one side or another; I don't like the Republican power monopoly but I like accountability to fall where it's deserved.

And, the accountability's currently being placed on Bush and his cronies. That's exactly where said accountability should be placed.

So, let's just let the flood control systems and dams rot, and the Mississippi will flood New Orleans, rather than a hurricane.

My problem with Bush's "handling" of the situation is that he obviously doesn't give two shits about it. If he did, he would've done something BEFORE the hurricane hit. Any other reasonable president sure as hell would have.
it took the cake eating Queen in the white house FIVE whole days to respond while rats gnawed on the bodies of floating corpses in NO

So I guess the fact that they asked the State Government Repeatedly for help in upgrading the levees and the fact that the funding that they did have was cut by Bush to almost 10% of what they needed is their fault also. And the fact on LAST Thursday the Mayor of New Orleans asked for 5 million from the Federal Government to help pay for buses to evacuate the city, and was ignored is their own fault also.

Again, both parties agreed on these actions and did nothing about it. They didn't know it would happen, so you really can't blame the government for the levee funding.

However, you can blame them for the buses. That was a terrible mistake and deserves punishment.

Again, both parties agreed on these actions and did nothing about it. They didn't know it would happen, so you really can't blame the government for the levee funding.

However, you can blame them for the buses. That was a terrible mistake and deserves punishment.

They *did* know it would happen. As early as two days beforehand, actually. They didn't do a fucking thing about it.

And, the accountability's currently being placed on Bush and his cronies. That's exactly where said accountability should be placed.

No, it should be placed on everyone who voted against the funding, no matter their party.

They *did* know it would happen. As early as two days beforehand, actually. They didn't do a fucking thing about it.

That's the government for you. Every single person who had even the slightest idea of what would happen and voted against it should be held accountable, and if no one knew, there is no blame. I want people to condemn the people who failed in this, not the party. Both parties are to involved in this.

No, it should be placed on everyone who voted against the funding, no matter their party.
and those who approved and developed vulnerable coastal areas, and those who drained the swamps, and those who saw the dissappearance of buffer zones and did nothing, etc. etc. NO's vulnerability is a problem that started decades ago, and is more a fault in a system and way of life rather than a president, political party or administration.

and those who approved and developed vulnerable coastal areas, and those who drained the swamps, and those who saw the dissappearance of buffer zones and did nothing, etc. etc. NO's vulnerability is a problem that started decades ago, and is more a fault in a system and way of life rather than a president, political party or administration.

I agree with this. The fault lies on the system, and it's beyond party lines; however, those who failed when they knew of the disaster do deserve to be condemned.

No, it should be placed on everyone who voted against the funding, no matter their party.
No one in their right minds would vote against an omnibus budget bill without a rather serious reason for doing so, and I'm afraid that this one doesn't count, recall those ads where democrats who sponcered the DHS were roasted for voting against it due to the lack of bargining rights...

No one in their right minds would vote against an omnibus budget bill without a rather serious reason for doing so, and I'm afraid that this one doesn't count, recall those ads where democrats who sponcered the DHS were roasted for voting against it due to the lack of bargining rights...

Yes, which is why the fault lies on individuals who failed when they had the knowledge, not the people voting on a budget months before.

having grown up on the gulf coast (galveston, TX), I would like to say the following.

1) although the future cannot be predicted, the funding cuts were assinine. Hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico are a COMMON OCCURANCE. Just because NO hadn't been hit yet was no reason to cut the funding.

2) fuck fault. there were multiple fuckups on this one and no one person can be blamed for the situation

3) the levee breaks were a result of negligence and improper funding. funding is controled by Congress, which has been Republican controled since (i think) 2000.

4) if the guy that stole the bus is prosecuted i sincerely hope that lawyer is shot.

Well, I didn't see anyone in Congress complain, so they're also at fault.



Yes, because he could see the hurricane coming ahead of time and knew exactly where it would hit. Even after it first made landfall as a Cat 1 the forecasters made a mistake in how long it would stay over Florida, with disasterous consequences.

Oh, and Congress took longer to reconvene than Bush took to leave Crawford.
the hurricane headed to NO with lots of warning--why didnt Bush use FEMA and Homeland Security to evacuate people? Is it too much to ask him to innerupt his 5 year vacation to even do THAT much?

Yes, which is why the fault lies on individuals who failed when they had the knowledge, not the people voting on a budget months before.
Well, no. Someone made the cuts, and they're the people who should take the blame. Last time I checked, the President submits the budget...

My "kind", what does that mean? I seriously hope you're not lumping me with the Republicans; I hold little love for their kind, but I like keeping facts straight.

And I'm sorry if you had a bad day. I never want to antagonize you or make things worse for you by my statements.
I find it to be hysterical that no one wants to admit to being a republican anymore :D

Seeing as how there has never been a hurricane there...

There have been MANY hurricanes there. Just because it didn't happen in your life time doesn't mean it didn't happen. Here's the complete list going back to the 1790's with stats on how often NO gets hit and grazed.

http://www.hurricanecity.com/city/neworleans.htm

I am unaware of the Democrat leadership in Congress raising any kind of complaints about the cuts.
I concede that too many dems are spineless wimps and thats the root cause of all their failures but its still a lesser sin to be timid then to be pure evil like alot of republicans are

I find it to be hysterical that no one wants to admit to being a republican anymore :D

I am nowhere near Republican other than on economic issues. ;)

I broke from them (symbolically, and later actually) after the 2000 election. This is due, of course, to their often shameful use of power, total fiscal irresponsibility, and willingness to sacrifice freedom for their extreme religious idiocy.

I concede that too many dems are spineless wimps and thats the root cause of all their failures but its still a lesser sin to be timid then to be pure evil like alot of republicans are

Well, you know the saying about how evil prospers when good (relative) men do nothing. Personally, I'd love for us to return to the situation in the 90's, where bipartisanship was more than a dream.

Clinton slashed intelligence spending and refused Bin Laden, and did almost nothing after 1993. I don't blame him for it because it simply wasn't his fault; he didn't know, and was acting in a perfectly reasonable way given the end of the Cold War.

However, blaming someone for something that occurs and is worsened by their lack of foresight for something that isn't even considered a major possibility is irrational, and that is why I used the Clinton comparison.
and Bush allowed Bin Laden to escape in Tora Bora and actively IGNORED repeated warnings about 911 since he was OBSESSED with attacking the helpless Iraq

Blaming Bush for cutting levee upgrades is justified criticism--the worst of this flooding was preventable and it was another diaster that Bush allowed

and Bush allowed Bin Laden to escape in Tora Bora and actively IGNORED repeated warnings about 911 since he was OBSESSED with attacking the helpless Iraq

Blaming Bush for cutting levee upgrades is justified criticism--the worst of this flooding was preventable and it was another diaster that Bush allowed

Again, it wouldn't have happened without the approval of Democrats. They approved the measure without any word of opposition.

Now, if they had, and it was passed over them, the situation would be different.

There's enough blame to go around and it goes back decades.
just in the last decade Clinton earmarked money to improve these levees--BUSH cut it for his war for oil in Iraq

Hindsight is 20-20.

just in the last decade Clinton earmarked money to improve these levees--BUSH cut it for his war for oil in Iraq

The Democrats could have stopped that, but they didn't. They let that money go.

Oh, trust me, both parties are at fault. I just don't want people to forget that and embark on blaming one side or another; I don't like the Republican power monopoly but I like accountability to fall where it's deserved.
as do I--which is why Im compelled to blame Bush

The Democrats could have stopped that, but they didn't. They let that money go.
And be all defeated next election when major ads are run that say that democrats hate the armed forces.

Again, both parties agreed on these actions and did nothing about it. They didn't know it would happen, so you really can't blame the government for the levee funding.

However, you can blame them for the buses. That was a terrible mistake and deserves punishment.
your totally correct altho I still think that Bush should be a man and accept the blame for once in his useless life

No, it should be placed on everyone who voted against the funding, no matter their party.
and on Bush for cutting the funding and for sending the Loisuana national guard to a quagmire in Iraq when they should be in NO saving lives

your totally correct altho I still think that Bush should be a man and accept the blame for once in his useless life

Many people are to blame for cutting the flood control funding. However, blame can be placed almost solely on Bush for totally disregarding the early warnings two days prior to the hurricane hitting Louisiana. It's his job to dispatch FEMA and the National Guard to help the people out.

your totally correct altho I still think that Bush should be a man and accept the blame for once in his useless life

They should all accept blame; him, the Congress, the state of Louisiana, and the city of New Orleans. All of them made grave errors at some point in this process, and they all have to own up to it.

I agree with this. The fault lies on the system, and it's beyond party lines; however, those who failed when they knew of the disaster do deserve to be condemned.
I agree again--Bush should resign in disgrace

and on Bush for cutting the funding and for sending the Loisuana national guard to a quagmire in Iraq when they should be in NO saving lives

Yes, but Clinton in turn closed bases and scaled back the national guard, and so on....

This is an endless blame game if we try and blame one person or party for this. We need to take responsibility as a nation, not just blaming the other party.

They should all accept blame; him, the Congress, the state of Louisiana, and the city of New Orleans. All of them made grave errors at some point in this process, and they all have to own up to it.

Wait, how did Louisiana and New Orleans do anything wrong? They're the ones who warned people and evacuated the fucking cities!

We need to take responsibility as a nation, not just blaming the other party.

I hope you mean the politicians should take responsibility...

I am nowhere near Republican other than on economic issues. ;)

I broke from them (symbolically, and later actually) after the 2000 election. This is due, of course, to their often shameful use of power, total fiscal irresponsibility, and willingness to sacrifice freedom for their extreme religious idiocy.
HAIL :cool:

Wait, how did Louisiana and New Orleans do anything wrong? They're the ones who warned people and evacuated the fucking cities!

The state of Louisiana didn't get their national guard units in there fast enough, they were disorganized, emergency response was slow, and so on. New Orleans bears fault for not enforcing its curfew and supplying enough transportation out of the city (which in turn was due to the Dept. of Transportaiton), and so on.

Every organization on each level has some blame; the leaders and bureaucrats, not the people on the ground.

Well, you know the saying about how evil prospers when good (relative) men do nothing. Personally, I'd love for us to return to the situation in the 90's, where bipartisanship was more than a dream.
me2 me2

I hope you mean the politicians should take responsibility...

Yes, the politicians and bureaucrats who slowed the process down. The people out there risking their health and lives deserve infinite praise, especially given how bad the situation was.

Again, it wouldn't have happened without the approval of Democrats. They approved the measure without any word of opposition.

Now, if they had, and it was passed over them, the situation would be different.
it would make a huge difference if dems at least had ONE house of congress to STOP THE INSANITY

I hope you mean the politicians should take responsibility...
If you voted for them, you are partially blame. We own the government, not the other way around. It is a great system, but we must accept the responsibility that goes along with it.

SO...
If you voted for a politician who cut funding or you didn’t bother to vote in an election, you are partly to blame.

And be all defeated next election when major ads are run that say that democrats hate the armed forces.
even tho Bush sent them to a Vietnam war in Iraq and cut their benefits at the same time

it would make a huge difference if dems at least had ONE house of congress to STOP THE INSANITY

The best situation would be a Democratic president, and a 50-50 Congress in my opinion. That would keep both parties balanced, but it would also give the Dems a tiebreaker for important legislation.

However, I think a Democratic House would be best combined with the split Senate.

Yes, but Clinton in turn closed bases and scaled back the national guard, and so on....

This is an endless blame game if we try and blame one person or party for this. We need to take responsibility as a nation, not just blaming the other party.
yeah I suppose its just a coincident that the world only really started goin to hell the day Bush took office

The Democrats could have stopped that, but they didn't. They let that money go. That's because their outnumbered! Remember Majority rules. And who has Majority? Not the Democrats that's for sure. Why stick your neck out when it'll just get it chopped. They wouldn't stop it because they knew that they wouldn't be able too and that they would lose what little prestege power that they had trying to defend the doomed idea.

And as I said the Mayor asked for help... He was DENIED and IGNORED.

The state of Louisiana didn't get their national guard units in there fast enough, they were disorganized, emergency response was slow, and so on. New Orleans bears fault for not enforcing its curfew and supplying enough transportation out of the city (which in turn was due to the Dept. of Transportaiton), and so on.

Every organization on each level has some blame; the leaders and bureaucrats, not the people on the ground.
thats because Bush sent most of their nation guard to Iraq to die for Halliburtons greed

when Bush cut the money to upgrade the levees he essentially told the people of NewOrleans to drop dead--correct
Give it a rest, your argument is garbage.

Is this the latest incarnation of TRA?
Id like to be the first to say he was treated very unfairly

Woah! Hold up! The city Bush allowed to sink? No, this is going way, way, way too far. The hurricane sank the city. Not Bush. Get it? Got it? GOOD. Let there be no mistake. The hurricane sank the city. The hurricane sank the city. Bush did not rain down water and blow down buildings. He couldn't have if he huffed and puffed and blew til he was blue in the face. He did not destroy the levees. They were not that weak. There was an evacuation advisary (sp?) 'Twas not Bush who sank the city.

OMG LOLZ ITS bUshes fault cuz presidentz are in Charge of evrythin!

I place 90% of the blame on the Mayor and Governor. It's their goddam state. They told everyone they had it under control on Tuesday, then turn around, freak out, and blame Bush for their screw up.

Woah! Hold up! The city Bush allowed to sink? No, this is going way, way, way too far. The hurricane sank the city. Not Bush. Get it? Got it? GOOD. Let there be no mistake. The hurricane sank the city. The hurricane sank the city. Bush did not rain down water and blow down buildings. He couldn't have if he huffed and puffed and blew til he was blue in the face. He did not destroy the levees. They were not that weak. There was an evacuation advisary (sp?) 'Twas not Bush who sank the city.
when Bush came into office he created a nationwide climate of extreme resentment and negativity. When these feelings reach a critical mass (which they have under Bush) natures natural response is to unleash cataclysmic events to purge itself of these unclean thought patterns

OMG LOLZ ITS bUshes fault cuz presidentz are in Charge of evrythin!

I place 90% of the blame on the Mayor and Governor. It's their goddam state. They told everyone they had it under control on Tuesday, then turn around, freak out, and blame Bush for their screw up.
I blame Bush for ignoring their pleas for help the same way he ignored all the desperate warnings about 911

I blame Bush for ignoring their pleas for help the same way he ignored all the desperate warnings about 911

So I guess governors and mayors are irrelevant, and the President is in charge of all cities. Listen to what the mayor says when he is asked if the governor also wished to declare martial law.

"I don't know". HE DIDN'T KNOW? HE IS THE MAYOR OF A CITY. THE GOVERNOR IS HIS SUPERIOR. HE SHOULD KNOW EVERY DAMN DETAIL WHEN IT COMES TO HIS TOWN.

If you expect Bush to know every little thing, then surely, the man actually in charge of the damn city should be God when it comes to this disaster.

when Bush came into office he created a nationwide climate of extreme resentment and negativity. When these feelings reach a critical mass (which they have under Bush) natures natural response is to unleash cataclysmic events to purge itself of these unclean thought patterns

Yes. Precisely. :roll: And polarity - the Democrats - are as much a part of this resentment as Bush himself is. I think people would be less apt to assume that it is fitting for them to despise him if he weren't on the opposite party and there was this "he is republican (or democrat in the case of someone else), therefore, he must be hated."

Bush has been ignoring their pleas? Just WHAT do you want him to do? This is a natural disaster. A hurricane like that hits, does what it does to a sprawling city like N.O., and what do you want the president to do? You don't think that we're doing as much as we can? You think he doesn't care about the thousands of people that are currently in there? You think waving National Guards and helicopters loaded with supplies is going to be effective? It's not. They've shot at policemen, and shot at helicopters. This is a difficult situation. This is a time for everyone to unite and help each other and for the administration to work on a solution, rather than a time to get polarized and throw blame all over the place. Though this isn't on the scale of 9/11, remember that when 9/11 happened, NOBODY in their right mind was criticizing or doubting rescue efforts.

Bush has been ignoring their pleas? Just WHAT do you want him to do? This is a natural disaster. A hurricane like that hits, does what it does to a sprawling city like N.O., and what do you want the president to do? You don't think that we're doing as much as we can? You think he doesn't care about the thousands of people that are currently in there? You think waving National Guards and helicopters loaded with supplies is going to be effective? It's not. They've shot at policemen, and shot at helicopters. This is a difficult situation. This is a time for everyone to unite and help each other and for the administration to work on a solution, rather than a time to get polarized and throw blame all over the place. Though this isn't on the scale of 9/11, remember that when 9/11 happened, NOBODY in their right mind was criticizing or doubting rescue efforts.

It doesn't matter if WE know what's up...the ridiculous logic being used to describe the situation is poison. I think it's funny the other side accuses Bush of being a king or a dictator, and then BITCHES when he doesn't exercise those kind of powers.

I think Bush is responsible...


For saving countless numbers of lives.

_______________________________
Why Was New Orleans Evacuated?

A number of our readers have been highly critical of state and local authorities in Louisiana. However, it must be acknowledged that they did one important thing that saved countless lives: they ordered the mandatory evacuation on Sunday that caused most people to leave the city. This mandatory evacuation order was a departure from past practice, when evacuations in the face of approaching hurricanes have always been voluntary.

So what prompted the order that prevented Hurricane Katrina from being a natural disaster of unprecedented magnitude?

The mayor called the order unprecedented and said anyone who could leave the city should.

Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding.

The City of New Orleans and its residents owe the President a profound debt of gratitude.

Thanks to reader Debbie Eberts.
______________________--

OMG LOLZ ITS bUshes fault cuz presidentz are in Charge of evrythin!

I place 90% of the blame on the Mayor and Governor. It's their goddam state. They told everyone they had it under control on Tuesday, then turn around, freak out, and blame Bush for their screw up.

Ahhhm, The force strong is with you.

And WHAT about those 200 or so School buses that were left to flood in the city's schoolbus yard? Couldn't those have been used to get everyone to safety? But no, we'sa gotta be ablamin' dat bush boy fo' not sendin' us no aahh condishuned limosheens"

:rolleyes:

These are the depths to which the left has sunk, blaming President Bush for sinking a city.

Not the depths to which the left has sunk, mind. As far as I'm aware, the author of this thread and someone who believes mother nature responds to political currents, unless that was biting sarcasm. Not everyone who says something stupid is to be interpreted as the emblem of the enemy.

Antre_Travarious']These are the depths to which the left has sunk, blaming President Bush for sinking a city.

Yup. Somepeople even think Bush has a hurricane generator at the bottom of the ocean... :rolleyes:

At some point people have to take responsibility and accountability for there own safety. Every city, county and state is responsible for disaster planning in its own jurisdiction. The local governments are always going to be uniquely aware of the type of disasters that they face. The disaster planning in NO was too little too late. Hundreds of city buses and school buses were destroyed by the flooding which should have been used to ferry the poor out of town. Had this started when mandatory evacuation was called, thousands of people would have made it to shelters before the storm hit. It is the local governments job to provide the disaster relief until state resources are brought to bear, and it’s the state’s responsibility to provide disaster relief until the federal governments resources are brought to bear. For a city unable to survive on it’s own for a couple of days is totally unacceptable.

Another problem that needs to be addressed is the institutional destruction of personal responsibility brought on by decades of dependence on the government’s charity. Many of the people in the NO projects that wanted to leave, wouldn’t because they were waiting for city government to come and move them. The tragedy of New Orleans can be summed up in one sentence. Too many people were overly dependent on a few incompetent people. It’s appalling that such barbarism was created by these attitudes. The social breakdown that we see on TV in NO happened a long time ago. It was masked by the enormous amount of welfare spending and police presence. The rapes, pillage, murder, and attacks on relief agencies did not occur to this degree in other places of the world where disaster struck. Why! Materially, the poorest New Orleaners were better off than the people that were hit by the Tsunami last year. But, the social fabric of those third world countries proved to be much stronger.

I hope all Americans take to heart the lessons learned from this disaster. No one is more responsible for you own safety than yourself. Cities will need to cope with a much greater level of lawlessness in the poorest sections of town that previously planned. Help from outside agencies is never ever going to arrive as fast as you need it too. Evacuate when you are told too. Build your home in an area prone to a natural disaster and you take your chances. Don’t live below sea level. Don’t be poor for many of New Orleans they chose to be poor, and believe it or not, choose to die in a lesser extent, it is tragic but not suprising and not worthy of pity, aid but not pity. The last thing we need to do is extend the welfare state that is the United States, that will only make it worse when the next one comes

Leave it to the French to build a city below sea level.

Ahhhm, The force strong is with you.

And WHAT about those 200 or so School buses that were left to flood in the city's schoolbus yard? Couldn't those have been used to get everyone to safety? But no, we'sa gotta be ablamin' dat bush boy fo' not sendin' us no aahh condishuned limosheens"

:rolleyes:

Ahhh, good point. Normally, I blame Bush for everything in this country (down to the extra dime I had to pay for my cinnamon muffin), but I'm going to have to agree with the above. Why not utilize the schoolbuses for homeless shelters and for the NO residents without transportation? We can't blame the boy for jumping in a bus and making a go for it. Imagine yourself in a situation such as that: choosing between waiting for hours for any small sign of relief, or saving your own warty bum. That's like, sitting on the deck of a sinking ship waiting for another ship to pass along, or building your own boat made of the ship's cheese supply.

Ohm, I don't know. *walks away*

A city only has so much money. A State only has so much power. And thier private force, the National guard, has been cut in half by the oil Wars.

Those School buses. Where would they get the ****ing drivers, hand them to the nearest person?

If that kid had flipped the Bus and killed all those people, the owners of that Bus would be at fault. That's why he could be in trouble.

Now would they give those buses to perfect strangers, or could they use that 5 Million in money to hire drivers brave enough to go down there and drive those people out of the city on the buses. But wait they didn't get that Five Million, they were IGNORED.

I'm not sure what school bus situation you're talking about - haven't been up to date on the hurricane (it was, 'six people dead in florida' to 'six feet of water on top of new orleans'...woahh), but when you're in a situation like this. I don't think you're worried about liabilities?

A city only has so much money. A State only has so much power. And thier private force, the National guard, has been cut in half by the oil Wars.

Those School buses. Where would they get the ****ing drivers, hand them to the nearest person?

If that kid had flipped the Bus and killed all those people, the owners of that Bus would be at fault. That's why he could be in trouble.

Now would they give those buses to perfect strangers, or could they use that 5 Million in money to hire drivers brave enough to go down there and drive those people out of the city on the buses. But wait they didn't get that Five Million, they were IGNORED.

An 18 year old already commandeered a bus and drove to Houston. Must not be that hard to drive a bus...what gives? I'm pretty sure there would be some bus drivers in the 30 thousand or so in the Super(doom)dome.

For all the people who are blaming Bush, shut up. Pointing fingers gets as much done as laying on your ass all day watching tv. In other words, blaming Bush right now is as useful as a solid colander or using white-out on a blank piece of paper. There are whiners and there are doers. Right now, Bush did way more personally to help than most of you put together. Why? He went there. He isn't pointing fingers. If you don't give blood, don't complain about a blood shortage. If you never donate to charity, don't complain about no one giving to charity. New Orleans would have better coped with Katrina if we would simply scrap most of our welfare programs and make the people of NO self-reliant. Ever wonder why those who recieve zippo from wel-fare, inclusing the bums collecting cans, fare much much better than those who have millions of hard working Americans paying their paychecks? I understand if you are disabled or if you were recently laid off. That money is only there to help the jobless get off their asses. You screw yourself when you become dependant.

and those who approved and developed vulnerable coastal areas, and those who drained the swamps, and those who saw the dissappearance of buffer zones and did nothing, etc. etc. NO's vulnerability is a problem that started decades ago, and is more a fault in a system and way of life rather than a president, political party or administration.
NO, the problem started when it was first built. The idiot Le Moyne was told by his own friggin engineers it was on unstable silt and not positioned over bedrock. Anybody with two friggin neurons to knock together should have been able to figure out that sooner or later the damned levees would fail. The irony, of course, is that the parts that failed were the completed parts, not the ones that the cut funding would have been used on.

I think the thing that gets me is that they had two days warning that it was going to hit there, and Bush didn't leave his Ranch until two days AFTER. It doesn't matter how he responded in comparison with anyone else, because he's supposed to be setting the example. He's the president. He gets word that something massive and huge and disaterous is going to happen... it wasn't a big shock or a surprise. So the big decision he makes is to stay on vacation for another four days? He should have been on the plane back to DC the SECOND he heard something major was going down in his own backyard.

Also, refusing the aid of other countries in the days before and just after the hurricane was the epitome of pride and stupidity. Even if we ended up not needing them, having them already here just in case would have been the best. This whole 'I'm America I can take care of myself under any circumstances' thing is rediculous to the point of it costing lives and now he's crawling back to them and saying 'please come help us, I forgot that I sent everyone with a badge over to the desert.'

There's lots of responsibility to go around, but these two things in specific make me extraordinarly comfortable in letting Bush take the blame for this mess.

You know what's more ironic? People are talking about rebuilding NO. Yeah. They really need to change some plans there. Yeah. A sinking cite isn't the best idea ever. Maybe somewhere more stable? Somewhere where you don't have to build levees just to accomidate more stupid people? NO was a mistake. Yeah. The prevention of the Mississippi's flooding prevented more sediments from building up NO. Yep. Damn dams.

You know what's more ironic? People are talking about rebuilding NO. Yeah. They really need to change some plans there. Yeah. A sinking cite isn't the best idea ever. Maybe somewhere more stable? Somewhere where you don't have to build levees just to accomidate more stupid people? NO was a mistake. Yeah. The prevention of the Mississippi's flooding prevented more sediments from building up NO. Yep. Damn dams.

Heh, Yeah!

It was designed by the French, what can you expect? The city leaders are a pandering group of cowards who couldn't manage themselves out of a paper bag in a neon tube.

The only person with a bit of sense has (from what i have seen) been ignored even though he is THE ONLY PERSON WITH A SINGLE BIT OF SENSE. He has taken the matter and summed it up perfectly yet all of you ignore him.

having grown up on the gulf coast (galveston, TX), I would like to say the following.

1) although the future cannot be predicted, the funding cuts were assinine. Hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico are a COMMON OCCURANCE. Just because NO hadn't been hit yet was no reason to cut the funding.

2) fuck fault. there were multiple fuckups on this one and no one person can be blamed for the situation

3) the levee breaks were a result of negligence and improper funding. funding is controled by Congress, which has been Republican controled since (i think) 2000.

4) if the guy that stole the bus is prosecuted i sincerely hope that lawyer is shot.

this man should be given a medal immediately for his sense, and not only that, he should go and take over bush in government, we would have some sense in at least one of the most powerful countries of the world.

I think the thing that gets me is that they had two days warning that it was going to hit there, and Bush didn't leave his Ranch until two days AFTER. It doesn't matter how he responded in comparison with anyone else, because he's supposed to be setting the example. He's the president. He gets word that something massive and huge and disaterous is going to happen... it wasn't a big shock or a surprise. So the big decision he makes is to stay on vacation for another four days? He should have been on the plane back to DC the SECOND he heard something major was going down in his own backyard.
Katrina was the responsibility of the Mayor of NO and the Governor of Louisiana, and they dropped the ball this time with some dire effects. It would not have broken their backs for them to order the Dept. of Transportation to get drivers to those buses and get people out of the city rather then leave them there to rot or get attacked by roaming gangs of hoodlums.

Also, refusing the aid of other countries in the days before and just after the hurricane was the epitome of pride and stupidity. Even if we ended up not needing them, having them already here just in case would have been the best. This whole 'I'm America I can take care of myself under any circumstances' thing is rediculous to the point of it costing lives and now he's crawling back to them and saying 'please come help us, I forgot that I sent everyone with a badge over to the desert.'
What other countries are offereing are basically pennies in comparison to what the US can send to help its own cities. Better for them to save up their moneis to use in places that can't afford a city sinking beneath the ocean.

Its obvious that we were unprepared for this kind of tragedy, even though we knew full well it was bound to happen, and discussions had not been seriously undertaken.

However, there will be plenty of time to headhunt later.
For now, this country has a shit-storm on its hands, and an awful lot of people dead, dying, hungry, and homless.

Getting people the nessecary help is first priority.

What I find disgusting is that after the tsunami in Thailand, survivors were being air-dropped food and water within three days.

Its was five in NO.

Heads should roll for that alone....but not yet!

I don't see Bush as having failed particularly. It was he who insisted that Governor Blanco issue the mandatory evacuation notice - there wouldn't have been one without his urging.

Mayor Nagin, on the other hand, did nothing other than follow the emergency plan he had written. Issue evacuation notice in a timely manner and have the shelters ready. He didn't help transport the sick and elderly to shelters, nor did he feel any particular need to have adequate food, water, cots and supplies in the shelters. Nor generators to run lights and air-conditioning.

No thought was given to providing communication equipment to police and firemen in the event of catastrophic power failure. This became a big problem later.

Nagin's plan lacked depth and flexibility, and it surely didn't include adequate stockpiled resources. His plan was outdated and sufficient only for the standard passing category 2 hurricanes they survive so well.

He just assumed that if he ran short on a few items (and hey, it's never happened before, so why worry?) that the State would make a food and water convoy. But darn, didn't the half of LA get nailed but good, and the roads and airports were out, so the State relief couldn't get there.

The clock has been ticking for a day or two, and it suddenly sinks in he has no law enforcement, communication, food, or water. And plan B with the State didn't work. Hey, let's call the Government!

Trouble is, roads are closed and no airport. And all the food, medicine, and troops are a long ways from NO. It takes several days for the Government to mobilize - that's how long it takes in real life to make things happen, even when you're well-organized.

Even our fastest military response unit, the 82nd Airborne, takes 18 hours to leave, and that's with everything pre-packaged and troops on a 2 hours on/off around the clock. Getting thousands of tons of food and water, trucks, helis, communication gear - and a shopping list of items from toothbrushes to sleeping cots - takes time to get under way.

The federal Government had to get many, many times more essentials to NO than those State couldn't deliver over closed roads. Same closed roads for the feds, and much further distance to drive.

Now Ray Nagin is mad, it's the fault of the state and the feds that they couldn't wave a magic wand and instantly deliver the items he was supposed to have available in the first place. Things he forgot to buy before the hurricane.

Nagin seems to have the same welfare-type attitude that some of his constituents do - it's the governments job to look after us, no personal responsibility required. Trouble is Ray IS the government.

If I spent 3 days in the Superdome I would be angry. It was a truly miserable situation with no functioning toilets, no power, no cots, no food, little water, insufficient security. I would be very, very angry with Ray. He forgot to make sure those things were there before the hurricane. Why in the hell do we hire him, anyway?

http://www.newschannel5.tv/2005/9/1/4255/T...n-the-Astrodome

In an extreme act of looting, one group actually stole a bus to escape ravaged areas in Louisiana.

good for them. that should be policy - every bus within a half days drive should just be commandeered to help evacuate people. and don't leave it to the state; those fuckers couldn't organize a rescue party if their lives depended on it, let alone the lives of thousands of poor people.

steal every available bus to get people out (and small boats and canoes and anything else that will be helpful), and when you get somewhere safe, loot the local stores for all the supplies you need to set up a refugee camp. take over all the hotels and motels too, as that will save on having to loot a bunch of cots and tents and such.

Authorities eventually allowed the renegade passengers inside the dome. But the 18-year-old who ensured their safety could find himself in a world of trouble for stealing the school bus.

how dare he steal a bus to help save people's lives?! truly this guy is a monster who must be treated harshly. doesn't he know that property rights trump all?

I don't see Bush as having failed particularly. It was he who insisted that Governor Blanco issue the mandatory evacuation notice - there wouldn't have been one without his urging.

Mayor Nagin, on the other hand, did nothing other than follow the emergency plan he had written. Issue evacuation notice in a timely manner and have the shelters ready. He didn't help transport the sick and elderly to shelters, nor did he feel any particular need to have adequate food, water, cots and supplies in the shelters. Nor generators to run lights and air-conditioning.

Its seems as though they knew this would happen.
An author was on CNN last night. He wrote an award winning series of articles called "Washed Away", about catastrophic flooding in NO.
The articles inspired brief discussions about emergency measures, but nothing was actually done.

No thought was given to providing communication equipment to police and firemen in the event of catastrophic power failure. This became a big problem later.

What equipment would do them any good?
They have no power.
No cell phone towers are working, and all phone lines are likely down.
Unless you have a sattelite in orbit...your kinda out of luck.

Nagin's plan lacked depth and flexibility, and it surely didn't include adequate stockpiled resources. His plan was outdated and sufficient only for the standard passing category 2 hurricanes they survive so well.

It seems this storm hit harder than anyone expected.

He just assumed that if he ran short on a few items (and hey, it's never happened before, so why worry?) that the State would make a food and water convoy. But darn, didn't the half of LA get nailed but good, and the roads and airports were out, so the State relief couldn't get there.

The clock has been ticking for a day or two, and it suddenly sinks in he has no law enforcement, communication, food, or water. And plan B with the State didn't work. Hey, let's call the Government!

Trouble is, roads are closed and no airport. And all the food, medicine, and troops are a long ways from NO. It takes several days for the Government to mobilize - that's how long it takes in real life to make things happen, even when you're well-organized.

Even our fastest military response unit, the 82nd Airborne, takes 18 hours to leave, and that's with everything pre-packaged and troops on a 2 hours on/off around the clock. Getting thousands of tons of food and water, trucks, helis, communication gear - and a shopping list of items from toothbrushes to sleeping cots - takes time to get under way.

No..not really.

After the tsunami in Thailand, America began airdropping food and water within three days.

Its taken five after Katrina.
In our own country.


Nagin seems to have the same welfare-type attitude that some of his constituents do - it's the governments job to look after us, no personal responsibility required. Trouble is Ray IS the government.

Sounds like you have a race issue.

What Im hearing from that line is: "Those blacks think we owe them everything"

Real cute.

Its seems as though they knew this would happen.
An author was on CNN last night. He wrote an award winning series of articles called "Washed Away", about catastrophic flooding in NO.
The articles inspired brief discussions about emergency measures, but nothing was actually done.



What equipment would do them any good?
They have no power.
No cell phone towers are working, and all phone lines are likely down.
Unless you have a sattelite in orbit...your kinda out of luck.



It seems this storm hit harder than anyone expected.



No..not really.

After the tsunami in Thailand, America began airdropping food and water within three days.

Its taken five after Katrina.
In our own country.




Sounds like you have a race issue.

What Im hearing from that line is: "Those blacks think we owe them everything"

Real cute.

You presume far to much - I have absolutely no race issue, and I resent you assuming that. Don't put words in my mouth. I said welfare mentality - plenty of whites have that too.

The Navy in the tsunami is completely self-contained, if you get the ship there it has all the necessary items ready for loading. There are no roads to clear to get within helicopter range. The manpower is assembled.

The Northern Command organizing this is in Colorado, troops and supplies are scattered all over the south. These are Guardsmen who have to be called to service. This all takes time. Then they have to load and drive. It is a miracle they got there as fast as they did. It takes the 82nd Airborne 18 hours to go - these guys did it in 48 or so. And there's a lot more coming - it will be a going concern in another day or so.

The law enforcement suffered from communication issues. They only needed more radios - the officer I heard interviewed was begging for hand-helds and batteries. City is only 5 miles wide, so even cheap motorolas will work. Generators and boats would have been nice, too.

Of course the storm hit harder than expected, and the plan was worthless. Why? The city needed to have enough supplies to last until the feds could relieve them. Ray didn't think too hard, he just planned for an easy storm and ran out goods right away. Then he blamed the feds because he didn't do his job.

Other southern cities coped far better. They stockpiled enough to last for a week or so. Ray stockpiled for a day or so.

Right, better watch it or George W. Bush is going to unleash hurricanes to destroy all your “Blue” states.

Must be something to that whole “God is on our side” thing. ;^)>

So I guess governors and mayors are irrelevant, and the President is in charge of all cities. Listen to what the mayor says when he is asked if the governor also wished to declare martial law.

"I don't know". HE DIDN'T KNOW? HE IS THE MAYOR OF A CITY. THE GOVERNOR IS HIS SUPERIOR. HE SHOULD KNOW EVERY DAMN DETAIL WHEN IT COMES TO HIS TOWN.

If you expect Bush to know every little thing, then surely, the man actually in charge of the damn city should be God when it comes to this disaster.
yes--I expect Bush to do his job and fully fund levee upgrades that couldve limited the extent of the damage instead of wasting $6 BILLION A MONTH in that sinkhole in Iraq

Yes. Precisely. :roll: And polarity - the Democrats - are as much a part of this resentment as Bush himself is. I think people would be less apt to assume that it is fitting for them to despise him if he weren't on the opposite party and there was this "he is republican (or democrat in the case of someone else), therefore, he must be hated."

Bush has been ignoring their pleas? Just WHAT do you want him to do? This is a natural disaster. A hurricane like that hits, does what it does to a sprawling city like N.O., and what do you want the president to do? You don't think that we're doing as much as we can? You think he doesn't care about the thousands of people that are currently in there? You think waving National Guards and helicopters loaded with supplies is going to be effective? It's not. They've shot at policemen, and shot at helicopters. This is a difficult situation. This is a time for everyone to unite and help each other and for the administration to work on a solution, rather than a time to get polarized and throw blame all over the place. Though this isn't on the scale of 9/11, remember that when 9/11 happened, NOBODY in their right mind was criticizing or doubting rescue efforts.
I dont hate SANE republicans (in fact I have alot of respect for Chuck Hagel) --what I hate is this evil extremist faction with its own devious and insanely destructive agenda that have hijacked the GOP

It doesn't matter if WE know what's up...the ridiculous logic being used to describe the situation is poison. I think it's funny the other side accuses Bush of being a king or a dictator, and then BITCHES when he doesn't exercise those kind of powers.
Bush doesnt have to use dictatorial powers to fully fund necessary programs. All he has to do is DO HIS JOB for once in his useless rotten life or retire and go back to the bed he spent the first 40 years of his life in passed out in a drunken stupor

I think Bush is responsible...


For saving countless numbers of lives.

_______________________________
Why Was New Orleans Evacuated?

A number of our readers have been highly critical of state and local authorities in Louisiana. However, it must be acknowledged that they did one important thing that saved countless lives: they ordered the mandatory evacuation on Sunday that caused most people to leave the city. This mandatory evacuation order was a departure from past practice, when evacuations in the face of approaching hurricanes have always been voluntary.

So what prompted the order that prevented Hurricane Katrina from being a natural disaster of unprecedented magnitude?

The mayor called the order unprecedented and said anyone who could leave the city should.

Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding.

The City of New Orleans and its residents owe the President a profound debt of gratitude.

Thanks to reader Debbie Eberts.
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however Bush took absolutely zero preventative action against the flooding and only did the barest minimun and held back the red cross and others so he could exploit this preventable tragedy for his cheap photo-ops

Not the depths to which the left has sunk, mind. As far as I'm aware, the author of this thread and someone who believes mother nature responds to political currents, unless that was biting sarcasm. Not everyone who says something stupid is to be interpreted as the emblem of the enemy.
our thoughts as individuals and as societies as a whole take on a life of their own outside of our bodies and impose themselves on nature which responds to them in her own manner true

Here's an excerpt from the evacuation plan:

5. The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuation.

dozens upon dozens of school buses were not used and were left in parking lots where they remain.

yes--I expect Bush to do his job and fully fund levee upgrades that couldve limited the extent of the damage instead of wasting $6 BILLION A MONTH in that sinkhole in Iraq


those upgrades would only have made the levees handle a cat 3 hurricane. katrina was a cat 4.

For all the people who are blaming Bush, shut up. Pointing fingers gets as much done as laying on your ass all day watching tv. In other words, blaming Bush right now is as useful as a solid colander or using white-out on a blank piece of paper. There are whiners and there are doers. Right now, Bush did way more personally to help than most of you put together. Why? He went there. He isn't pointing fingers. If you don't give blood, don't complain about a blood shortage. If you never donate to charity, don't complain about no one giving to charity. New Orleans would have better coped with Katrina if we would simply scrap most of our welfare programs and make the people of NO self-reliant. Ever wonder why those who recieve zippo from wel-fare, inclusing the bums collecting cans, fare much much better than those who have millions of hard working Americans paying their paychecks? I understand if you are disabled or if you were recently laid off. That money is only there to help the jobless get off their asses. You screw yourself when you become dependant.
this post is so totally wrong on so many levels its almost not worth the energy of even responding to this degree of blindly partisan denial of reality

Katrina was the responsibility of the Mayor of NO and the Governor of Louisiana, and they dropped the ball this time with some dire effects. It would not have broken their backs for them to order the Dept. of Transportation to get drivers to those buses and get people out of the city rather then leave them there to rot or get attacked by roaming gangs of hoodlums
the Mayor of NO and the Gov also were literally BEGGING for months for Bush to do something--anything--ONE thing for the American people for ONCE and actually fund something necessary that benefits US and not his blood soaked war profiteering friends who are currently looting Iraq


What other countries are offereing are basically pennies in comparison to what the US can send to help its own cities. Better for them to save up their moneis to use in places that can't afford a city sinking beneath the ocean.
yes but those "pennies" are more then what Bush is willing to spend for the American people

Right, better watch it or George W. Bush is going to unleash hurricanes to destroy all your “Blue” states.

Must be something to that whole “God is on our side” thing. ;^)>
yeah --im sure its just a coincidence that the day Bush seized power that the world started to go to hell--except that I dont believe in coincidences

those upgrades would only have made the levees handle a cat 3 hurricane. katrina was a cat 4.
but it still doesnt explain why on day FIVE of Bushs non-response that he was found eating cake in Crawford Texas--if this happened in Florida where his equally corrupt brother is Gov he woulda sent in the Queen Mary to evacuate the entire state the very next day.