NationStates Jolt Archive

Do you feel loyalty to the Queen of the Commonwelth? Queen Elizabeth?
She is your Head of state.

Erm, why do you want to know. I don't mind her being there, but I'm not proud of her.

Erm, why do you want to know. I don't mind her being there, but I'm not proud of her.

Well I was wondering what my comonwelth friends felt. As I am British I feel loyalty to her

The UK Queen is not the head of state of all Commonwealth nations, e.g. India is a member of the commonwealth and has a President as its head of state, as does Cyprus and some other commonwealth lands.

Well I was wondering what my comonwelth friends felt. As I am British I feel loyalty to her

Why? What's she done for you?

I'm British, and I'd sooner salute an EU flag than that lot. :rolleyes:

The UK Queen is not the head of state of all Commonwealth nations, e.g. India is a member of the commonwealth and has a President as its head of state, as does Cyprus and some other commonwealth lands.


Sorry I dident know that! But She is still head of the commonwelth as India and Cyprus are In!

Sorry I dident know that! But She is still head of the commonwelth as India and Cyprus are In!

You are proof of the disaster that is our education system.

Why? What's she done for you?

She makes me feel proud of my Island Nation! GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!!
I would rather see William as king! That will be great!

She makes me feel proud of my Island Nation! GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!!
I would rather see William as king! That will be great!

Meh, blind patriot. I have enough of them in my school.

You are proof of the disaster that is our education system.

Why? I dont understand why you say that? :(

Why? I dont understand why you say that? :(

You can't spell or use correct grammar. That wasn't even a question damnit.

You can't spell or use correct grammar. That wasn't even a question damnit.

sorry about that. I dont care much about me typing. Dont call me stupit cause ya dont know what you are talking about

sorry about that. I dont care much about me typing. Dont call me stupit cause ya dont know what you are talking about

You're opening yourself up with what you're calling yourself. "I am smart" is quite a claim you know which i'm sure will cause many people to ask you to prove it.

She makes me feel proud of my Island Nation!

Which Island Nation is that? The one that includes Northern Ireland, Anglesey, Skye, the Hebrides, the Orkneys, et. al.?

You're opening yourself up with what you're calling yourself. "I am smart" is quite a claim you know which i'm sure will cause many people to ask you to prove it.

oh come on its just a name for my nation.

Which Island Nation is that? The one that includes Northern Ireland, Anglesey, Skye, the Hebrides, the Orkneys, et. al.?

England

England

Ah, the 'Island Nation' which is technically neither an island, nor a nation.

Ah, the 'Island Nation' which is technically neither an island, nor a nation.


England a NATION that is part of the United Kingdom and The United Kingdom with ENGLAND is an island.

England
England is as much of an island as Northern Ireland.

England is as much of an island as Northern Ireland.

well England is on an island with scot. and wales. NI is on an Island with Ireland. So where ever you go in the UK your on an Island Nation

well England is on an island with scot. and wales. NI is on an Island with Ireland. So where ever you go in the UK your on an Island Nation
You said England, which in itself is not an Island. It is a part of the island of Great Britain.

She's a very gracious Lady and I do feel loyalty towards Elizabeth Windsor. She is my Queen, and my nation's Head of State. I don't think too highly of certain members of her household, but what of that? It has no impact on my feelings towards her.

well England is on an island with scot. and wales.

Except for those bits of England which are themselves on islands (such as the Isle of Wight).

I quees I meant Great Britian When I said England. Sorry

I quees I meant Great Britian When I said England. Sorry

Okay, Great Britain is pretty much an island*, but it certainly ain't no nation.


* ignoring those awkward bits like Anglesey, Isle of Wight, the Scottish Islands, and the like.

Okay, Great Britain is pretty much an island*, but it certainly ain't no nation.


* ignoring those awkward bits like Anglesey, Isle of Wight, the Scottish Islands, and the like.
But those other islands aren't part of the actual island of Great Britain, they are there own, seperate islands.

But those other islands aren't part of the actual island of Great Britain, they are there own, seperate islands.

It depends what definition of Great Britain you want to use - one that restricts it to the actual mainland (which then looks a bit funny as Anglesey is lopped off the silhouette), or to the territory covered by the countries of England, Scotland and Wales (however those far outlying islands are normally excluded).

Okay, Great Britain is pretty much an island*, but it certainly ain't no nation.


* ignoring those awkward bits like Anglesey, Isle of Wight, the Scottish Islands, and the like.
What? GB is no nation? jeeze this is a laugh

What? GB is no nation? jeeze this is a laugh

No. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a nation though. You might have heard of it, no?

No. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a nation though. You might have heard of it, no?

Yes 2 nations in the United Kingdom. They are known as 2 diff. nations. As they are one. Gets confusing

Yes 2 nations in the United Kingdom. They are known as 2 diff. nations. As they are one. Gets confusing

Hang on here: first you claimed that England was a nation, and now you are saying that there are only two different nations in the UK. Obviously Northern Ireland must be one of those, as its named in the nation title. What happened to Wales and Scotland then?

It depends what definition of Great Britain you want to use - one that restricts it to the actual mainland (which then looks a bit funny as Anglesey is lopped off the silhouette), or to the territory covered by the countries of England, Scotland and Wales (however those far outlying islands are normally excluded).
Seeing as we are talking about the island itself, I would say Great Britain is just that one island, and the others are seperate. Depends on context, really.

Seeing as we are talking about the island itself, I would say Great Britain is just that one island, and the others are seperate. Depends on context, really.

Yeah, but as this thread so amply demonstrates context is often lost as a result of peoples' nebulous ideas of what the term means.

Hang on here: first you claimed that England was a nation, and now you are saying that there are only two different nations in the UK. Obviously Northern Ireland must be one of those, as its named in the nation title. What happened to Wales and Scotland then?


Ok if I remember all this from my British history classes my teacher use to say: England Scotland and wales are 3 nations in one Great Britian which is a nation. And Great Britian and Northern Ireland are both seperate nations that are also one nation in The United Kingdom of Great Britian and Northern Ireland.

Ok if I remember all this from my British history classes my teacher use to say: England Scotland and wales are 3 nations in one Great Britian which is a nation. And Great Britian and Northern Ireland are both seperate nations that are also one nation in The United Kingdom of Great Britian and Northern Ireland.

Ergo: the UK contains ...five nations?

Well 4 nations that are also another 2. But they just say 4 nations! That are 1 nation. Whatever thats all I know.

I am British (I come from England but I do not call myself English) and I owe my loyalty to the Queen and all those who hold that office. It is not Elizabeth to whom I hold loyalty (although she herself is worthy of respect) but the office, the office of monarch.

Well 4 nations that are also another 2. But they just say 4 nations! That are 1 nation. Whatever thats all I know.

The problem here is that 'Great Britain' isn't actually a nation - the phrase is often misused instead of the term 'UK of GB & NI', but it hasn't actually been a real nation since 1801.

The problem here is that 'Great Britain' isn't actually a nation - the phrase is often misused instead of the term 'UK of GB & NI', but it hasn't actually been a real nation since 1801.


Whatever! Think what you want and I will do the same!! I am tired of this! I give up.

I hope you don't mind a Yankee post in here, as I am curious about something on this topic...

How do these nations/territories/whatever get defined as part of the British Empire? Are they individual nations joined under a single banner? Or are they the remnants of the old British Empire that have been hung on to for all this time? Forgive me for being a little uneducated in British politics.

I also take it that should a nation/territory/whatever wish to leave the United Kingdom, it would not be free to? As if they had, the UK would probobly have devided before now. [/speculation]

I also take it that should a nation/territory/whatever wish to leave the United Kingdom, it would not be free to? As if they had, the UK would probobly have devided before now. [/speculation]
Well, what is now the Republic of Ireland did leave in 1921.

England, Scotland and Wales all have sizeable majorities in favour of staying in the UK, and in NI the number in favour of staying is about 55%. It has already been said that if a large enough majority in NI wanted to leave then the UK would let it go.

In Scotland (and I presume Wales) most feel that devolution is far enough, we practically have independence now anyway (the only time we don't get to decide our own affairs is things like invading countries under false pretences :mad: ) I for one feel no loyalty to the queen whatsoever, they (the royals) are a costly embarassment, wastes of space and oxygen to a man and they are reminders of the evil past Britain has.

Of course the UK wants to wash its hands of the Northern Irish problem, they wouldn't so readily give up Scotland or Wales but, ironically, in NI there are some of the most fanatically loyal subjects to the crown.

they (the royals) are a costly embarassment,
For every £1 the Queen gets through the civil list, she gives back £5 through her various companies and the crown estate, and it goes into things like healthcare.

For every £1 the Queen gets through the civil list, she gives back £5 through her various companies and the crown estate, and it goes into things like healthcare.

Bullshit, the queen doesn't put her own toothpaste on her toothbrush, clearly she does nothing for these companies. Why not cut out the middle man, flog all of their castles, jewels, ornaments, etc. that we pay for and then give all £6 to someone with business nous, rather than only 5/6 - bingo - more money for healthcare than before.

Bullshit, the queen doesn't put her own toothpaste on her toothbrush, clearly she does nothing for these companies. Why not cut out the middle man, flog all of their castles, jewels, ornaments, etc. that we pay for and then give all £6 to someone with business nous, rather than only 5/6 - bingo - more money for healthcare than before.
In 2003 the civil list gave the royal family about £9.9m (and the Queen then repays all except for her and the Duke of Edinburgh, so it's really less than that). In the same year, the Queen gave HM Treasury all £170.8m of the money she raises from the crown estate (and that includes repaying the civil list).

That's how the civil list is funded.

£170.8m - £9.9m = £160.9m of free money for the Treasury.

Of course the UK wants to wash its hands of the Northern Irish problem, they wouldn't so readily give up Scotland or Wales but, ironically, in NI there are some of the most fanatically loyal subjects to the crown.

Saying that 'the UK' wants to wash its hands of the Northern Irish problem is difficult, as part of the UK is Northern Ireland (like it or not). Saying that England, Wales and Scotland, or possibly just Westminster want to wash their hands of it might be a better way of putting it.

In 2003 the civil list gave the royal family about £9.9m (and the Queen then repays all except for her and the Duke of Edinburgh, so it's really less than that). In the same year, the Queen gave HM Treasury all £170.8m of the money she raises from the crown estate (and that includes repaying the civil list).

That's how the civil list is funded.

£170.8m - £9.9m = £160.9m of free money for the Treasury.

Aye but they are clearly just figureheads, they dont actually do anything. There are people running it and I'm sure doing a wonderful job but there is no point in having the royals involved at any stage, since they don't contribute (and neither they should given their lack of intelligence and common sense).

Apologies as well should have been more specific, I think the government would want to wash it's hands of the Irish problem but it's obviously not that simple. I personally don't care.

Well, what is now the Republic of Ireland did leave in 1921.

England, Scotland and Wales all have sizeable majorities in favour of staying in the UK, and in NI the number in favour of staying is about 55%. It has already been said that if a large enough majority in NI wanted to leave then the UK would let it go.

No, Ireland dident ask to leave. well they did at first but they were dinied. They left by force. Armys lead by Mike Collins and De valera. Which lead to the cival war over the treaty with the british which gave up Northern Ireland. Cival war between Collins and De valera. Collins won but not before De valera had him shot. then De valera akcted nice and was elected our P.M.
Most people think they were both Irish Heros. I think De valera was a trator.
He kinda was but faked he dident mean any of it. Murduring the man who won us independence while he was off crying to america! Doing no good. Unlucky for me is my Great Uncle who I learned all this from was the righthand man to Collins. Well one of at least 10. So I know a lot about Collins. Yet my Great Grandmother on the other side diliverd all De Valeras Babys! Funny. Well I hope you all enjoyed this! Want to here more about Irish History TG me!

This thread wants me to take up PM's stance of just being European.

Lack of intelligence and common sense? You clearly don't know enough about the Royals. The Queen, anyway.

I feel loyalty to the Commonwealth, but not to the Queen.

No I do not feel 'loyalty' to the Queen. That is part of the benefit of having her as a figure-head.

I think the Queen is great and i dont like what the Brits are doing to her.

She makes me feel proud of my Island Nation! GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!!
I would rather see William as king! That will be great!

ok, we all know thatwe need a president like in america, and we need to become part of america, and we need to destroy the UN...

well i know that anyway. i dunno about you lot. but we could do with a leader like bush.

You are proof of the disaster that is our education system.

We have one? I was privately educated....

I do find the queen and the royal family somewhat embarresing at points, however in comparison to that complete ingrate of a prime minister we ahev had the misfortune to elect, I find her presence as the head of state comforting.

How do these nations/territories/whatever get defined as part of the British Empire? Are they individual nations joined under a single banner? Or are they the remnants of the old British Empire that have been hung on to for all this time? Forgive me for being a little uneducated in British politics.

The only remnants of The Empire are little islands in the middle of the Atlantic that no one cares about.

The rest of the empire has evolved into The Commonwealth, a community of nations which the Queen is the head of, and most of the nations in the Commonwealth retain the Queen as their head of state.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/62/Commonwealth_of_Nations.png/350px-Commonwealth_of_Nations.png

However in 1947 when India got it's independence they didn't want the King in charge, so a new status of republic dominions was created (as opposed to all the other crown dominions) to allow them to remain members.

FYI Crown Dominions are now known as Commonwealth Realms- probably because it sounds better.


I also take it that should a nation/territory/whatever wish to leave the United Kingdom, it would not be free to? As if they had, the UK would probobly have devided before now. [/speculation]

How easy do you think it would be for a state to leave the union?

1. I don't understand the fascination with monarchy. I really don't. A bunch of inbred jackasses mooching off the public dole - my chest aches with pride!

2. As I learned in my boring political science classes, a 'nation' is often confused with a 'state.' Nation and state aren't synonymous. I found a good definition of 'nation' online:

"Individuals whose common identity creates a psychological bond and a political community."

In other words, a nation of people can exist within a state, for example the American Indian 'nation.' If a nation creates a state (state being defined as a combination of people and territory consolidated under a sovereign government), then it'd be referred to as a 'nation-state.' It's hard to call England a 'nation' these days because it's not nearly as culturally and psychologically unified as it once was. I don't want to make that call, though. I just thought I'd clarify the terms from more of an academic bent.

I am a citizen of Britain, and am proud to have her as the Head of State. After all, everyone has to pay just 60p a year to keep the family going, and in return they attract millions of £ from the tourists! And as for the commonwealth members, they should be proud of it. After all, that way they have a good ally when they are in need, lots of history behind them and they get to take part in the Commonwealth Games, which are the second greatest games on Earth behind the Olympics.

1. I don't understand the fascination with monarchy. I really don't. A bunch of inbred jackasses mooching off the public dole - my chest aches with pride!

2. As I learned in my boring political science classes, a 'nation' is often confused with a 'state.' Nation and state aren't synonymous. I found a good definition of 'nation' online:

"Individuals whose common identity creates a psychological bond and a political community."

In other words, a nation of people can exist within a state, for example the American Indian 'nation.' If a nation creates a state (state being defined as a combination of people and territory consolidated under a sovereign government), then it'd be referred to as a 'nation-state.' It's hard to call England a 'nation' these days because it's not nearly as culturally and psychologically unified as it once was. I don't want to make that call, though. I just thought I'd clarify the terms from more of an academic bent.

Quite true, and Britain is not culturally unified, we possess a multitude of faiths, and are required to provide translations for British citizens who are incapable of speaking coherent English beyond "Would you like chips with that?". The queen is a relic of a previous age, a previous Britain, whose inhabitants were British, and I find it a signal comfort that in an abhorrent nation with contradictory politics, a moron of a prime minister, and a propensity for offering sylum to anyone utterly unbefitting, a relic of old England endures.

royalist through and through.

i believe that Scotland gets more taxpayers momney given to it that ENgland. I would like to see Scotland work as an independant nation. NO chance. Englands thew only country in the uk that can operate effectively on its own.
(unless you count the republic of ireland or those little islands away from britain like the falklands etc.)

i believe that Scotland gets more taxpayers momney given to it that ENgland. I would like to see Scotland work as an independant nation. NO chance. Englands thew only country in the uk that can operate effectively on its own.
(unless you count the republic of ireland or those little islands away from britain like the falklands etc.)
The Republic of Ireland's not part of the UK. That's the point.

ok, we all know thatwe need a president like in america, and we need to become part of america, and we need to destroy the UN...

well i know that anyway. i dunno about you lot. but we could do with a leader like bush.

THE WORLD NEEDS THE UN. Yes its full of corruption. But I would rather live in a world that contains an organisation that tries to help than without one. The UK does not need to become part of America. That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Tony Blair, admittedly didn't do to well with the old Iraq war but grrr if you want a leader like Bush...who by the way is doing such a wonderful job..then apply for American citizenship.

The Republic of Ireland's not part of the UK. That's the point.


Hear Hear :D

ok, we all know thatwe need a president like in america, and we need to become part of america, and we need to destroy the UN...

well i know that anyway. i dunno about you lot. but we could do with a leader like bush

Incidentally, who's using the family brian cell at present?