NationStates Jolt Archive

Hurricane Katrina And Capitalism: A Disaster In The Making
Statement By The Free People's Movement

On August 29, 2005, Katrina, one of the most powerful hurricanes in history, slammed into the coast of the South Eastern United States, washing away entire towns in Mississippi and destroying much of New Orleans.

No one knows how many people have died in this disaster, but estimates range from hundreds to even thousands, and up to one million have been left homeless.

The toxic water, which is flooding the streets of New Orleans, is a mixture of garbage, raw sewage, gasoline and other petroleum products from nearby oil refineries, thousands of corpses--of those who died in the hurricane as well as those washed out of the cemeteries, and poisonous chemicals from the many chemical plants in the region (more per square mile than in any other region in the U.S.). The effects of this will likely be felt by the people and environment of the area for years to come.

Tens, possibly hundreds of thousands are stranded on rooftops and in attacks. The “relief” effort has proven to be too little, too late. “We are out here like pure animals,” cried a survivor, “We don't have help."

In response to the increasingly desperate survivors’ appropriations of food and water, the government has proclaimed a defacto martial law, with soldiers and police enforcing a “shoot to kill” policy. The entire area has descended into chaos.

Although hurricanes cannot be prevented, catastrophic results like these can.

Cuba, a socialist country which is organized to meet human needs, has shown that it’s possible to carry out large scale evacuations with very little resources. Less then two months ago, 1.7 million people were evacuated on short notice in preparation for Hurricane Dennis.

In Cuba, both the pickup and delivery of people for evacuations is organized well in advance. The population is well educated about hurricanes, and they know where to go (and how to get there) in emergency situations.

The country’s leaders and knowledgeable meteorologists take charge, going on television and keeping the population informed. In case of power outages, there are special messengers who communicate evacuation plans to each area.

People go door to door to inform everyone of upcoming evacuations, and return to let them know when they have begun.

All shelters are staffed with medical personnel and family doctors evacuate along with their neighborhoods, knowing who needs special medicines (such as diabetics and asthmatics) and bringing them along in sufficient quantities. Veterinarians evacuate animals and items such as televisions and refrigerators are brought along so that people don’t stay behind in attempts to protect them.

If all else fails, people can be evacuated to high schools in the countryside which contain built-in dormitories.

Because of measures like these, made possible by Cuba’s social revolution, the last category 4 hurricane to hit Cuba left only 16 dead – the highest death toll in forty-one years(!) in an island constantly bombarded by hurricanes.

But in the U.S., a capitalist country where profit rules over people, evacuations like these are not only not planned for, they are in fact blocked!

Airlines stopped flights to New Orleans twenty-four hours before they had to, only because it wouldn’t have been profitable to fly airplanes with no passengers on them.

Commercial buses have lined up on Interstate 10 of the city, refusing to evacuate people with no money. “It’s like they’re punishing us,” said one 52-year-old survivor.

The U.S. government, which has spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a war based on lies, didn’t spend a single penny evacuating a city directly in the path of one of the worst hurricanes in history – even though they knew it was coming days in advance!

The levees, built to protect the city from disasters like this one, were not maintained before the hurricane hit and couldn’t hold up to the impact of the water and wind. As a direct result of the funding of the Iraq war and Bush’s tax cuts for the wealthy, many U.S. Army Corps of Engineers requests for hurricane protection projects have been cut back or delayed since 2001.

As the Chicago Tribune reported, “Despite continuous warnings that a catastrophic hurricane could hit New Orleans, the Bush administration and Congress in recent years have repeatedly cut funding for hurricane preparation and flood control. The cuts have delayed construction of levees around the city and stymied an ambitious project to improve drainage in New Orleans' neighborhoods.”

At least nine articles in the Times-Picayune from 2004 and 2005 specifically cite the cost of Iraq as a reason for the lack of hurricane and flood-control dollars.

The corporate controlled media has portrayed victims of the hurricane, who are struggling to survive, as “looters” and “miscreants.” The media coverage has also revealed the deep rooted racism that prevails in this society – White survivors are portrayed as ‘refugees’ who ‘find’ food and other supplies while Blacks are demonized and depicted as savage criminals. The results of slavery, Jim Crow segregation laws, and the ongoing oppression of Blacks and other minorities has been brought to the front.

The truth is, these survivors are taking food, water, dry clothing, and other items because they need them survive -- they have been abandoned and have no other choice!

So what has been the response of the government?

Louisiana’s governor has called for a day of prayer when she should have been working to meet the needs of the hurricanes victims!

Federal Emergency Management Director Michael Brown went as far as placing the blame on the victims themselves, saying “I think the death toll may go into the thousands and that's going to be attributable a lot to people who did not heed the advance warnings [to leave].”

The reality of the situation is that the over 100,000 people that remained in New Orleans and the surrounding areas hit by the hurricane didn’t have the financial means to leave! As a survivor told reporters, “that’s a crime, and people are angry about it!”

People are angry, and for good reason. But instead of attempting to relieve their anger by doing what should have been done in the first place, the emphasis of the government is being placed on stopping the “looting” and “lawlessness” of the hurricane victims!

President Bush, taking a break from his long vacation, urged a “crackdown,” saying “I think there ought to be zero tolerance of people breaking the law, and I’ve made that clear to our attorney general.”

Thousands of troops, “fresh back from Iraq,” have been sent to New Orleans and thousands more are on the way. “These are some of the 40,000 extra troops that I have demanded," said Louisiana’s governor (the same person who called for a day of prayer), as she went on to threaten the hurricane victims, "They have M-16s, and they're locked and loaded ... I have one message for these hoodlums: These troops know how to shoot and kill, and they are more than willing to do so if necessary, and I expect they will."

U.S. Coast Guard rescue missions have been suspended, and boat rescue teams looking for Katrina survivors have been ordered to stand down by the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

New Orleans Mayor Nagin ordered the police force to abandon search-and-rescue efforts and focus on stopping the “criminals.”

Police officers armed with shotguns are standing outside of hotels to keep out refugees looking for food, water, and shelter, while snipers are stationed on police station rooftops to “protect” private property. Officers attempted to keep camera crews from filming their actions under the pretense that the streets were “too dangerous.”

Police from Texas, Arkansas, Kentucky, and as far away as Michigan are being called in to “bring order back to the streets.” Of course, no one was called in to help with evacuativon or relief efforts earlier.

This disaster, and the government’s response to it, have shown unequivocally that the people of New Orleans and the other areas hit by Hurricane Katrina are not only victims of a natural disaster, they are victims of the capitalist system – a ruthless system based on the exploitation of the majority of humanity for the benefit of the few, in which private property and profit are considered more important than human life.

This did not have to happen this way, and it doesn’t have to ever happen again! A much better world for all of us is possible! Now, more than ever, we must push onward to a socialist revolution to liberate all of humanity!

----

I think it's important to relate to as many people as possible the root causes of all of this, and so I think we should try to get this message, and ones like it, in front as many people as possible, in blogs, emails, forums, etc.

Link To Original Story: http://freepeoplesmovement.org/fp14a.html

...Don't take advantage of a national disaster, twist it around to your liking, and then bash an entire economic system.

Will someone summarize this long ass article and explain to me how hurricane Katrina is going to kill capitalism?

Will someone summarize this long ass article and explain to me how hurricane Katrina is going to kill capitalism?
I THINK he's saying that Capitalist nations will fare worse than socialist/communist nations (i.e. Cuba) because people are so greedy, they care more about money than lives, and thus, fuck everything up...

Of course, I could be mistaken.

I THINK he's saying that Capitalist nations will fare worse than socialist/communist nations (i.e. Cuba) because people are so greedy, they care more about money than lives, and thus, fuck everything up...

Of course, I could be mistaken.
I don't think greed is a factor determined by what sort of political system you live in. Besides, capitalist nations can be less greedy than America generally is...

It's the difference between individualism and groupism, which both fit under capitalism.

I'm not sure if there is anything worse than using a tragedy to further your own agenda. The OP is just as guilty as the people he wants so desperately to slander.

I THINK he's saying that Capitalist nations will fare worse than socialist/communist nations (i.e. Cuba) because people are so greedy, they care more about money than lives, and thus, fuck everything up...

Of course, I could be mistaken.

The people running NO don't care about money right now, it's useless. They care about acting like a lowlife thug and ruining peoples lives.

Bah. Let's condemn capitalism because a few assholes in Louisiana and DC can't get their shit together. Give it a rest, you communist-worshipping diatribe writers.

No one sane sees Cuba as a model country just because it's citizens are more easily trained to hop up and give up their belongings and property when Big Brother 'asks.'

No one expected Katrina to be so devestating. Most of the people evacuated. Flights were cancelled because no one likes flying in 140 mph winds. Plus, although there are those who stayed because they can't evacuate, there are those who chose to stay because they survived lesser hurricanes. How many people here knew how devestating Katrina would be before it happened? The US government didn't do anything because it was Luoisiana's job to prepare for Katrina. It was the state's responcibility to take care of its citizens. That's the basis of Federalism. Local government takes care of a relatively small group of people. then, you have states, or provinces as they are known outside of the US, whose sole purpose is to govern its citizens. Then, you get the national government, which takes care of everyone American, plus a few other people. Now, you have police enforcing a shoot-to-kill policy out of necesity. They have a bunch of a-holes shooting at them. You expect them to lay down their arms and paint targets on their chests? The disaster zone is a mess. Rome wasn't built in a day. You can't expect everything to be fixed now.

"But in the U.S., a capitalist country where profit rules over people, evacuations like these are not only not planned for, they are in fact blocked!

Airlines stopped flights to New Orleans twenty-four hours before they had to, only because it wouldn’t have been profitable to fly airplanes with no passengers on them.

Commercial buses have lined up on Interstate 10 of the city, refusing to evacuate people with no money. “It’s like they’re punishing us,” said one 52-year-old survivor.

The U.S. government, which has spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a war based on lies, didn’t spend a single penny evacuating a city directly in the path of one of the worst hurricanes in history – even though they knew it was coming days in advance!

The levees, built to protect the city from disasters like this one, were not maintained before the hurricane hit and couldn’t hold up to the impact of the water and wind. As a direct result of the funding of the Iraq war and Bush’s tax cuts for the wealthy, many U.S. Army Corps of Engineers requests for hurricane protection projects have been cut back or delayed since 2001."

Amen to that comrade!

"But in the U.S., a capitalist country where profit rules over people, evacuations like these are not only not planned for, they are in fact blocked!

Airlines stopped flights to New Orleans twenty-four hours before they had to, only because it wouldn’t have been profitable to fly airplanes with no passengers on them.

Commercial buses have lined up on Interstate 10 of the city, refusing to evacuate people with no money. “It’s like they’re punishing us,” said one 52-year-old survivor.
Is it the 52-year-old survivor who is most likely not employed in any business that has anything to do with airline logistics who is claiming the airlines stopped flights because they expected them to have no passengers? Or maybe airlines stopped flights to New Orleans because it's not good to move people INTO a city that they KNOW is about to get ravaged by a hurricane? The flights out of New Orleans, however, should have continued.

The U.S. government, which has spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a war based on lies, didn’t spend a single penny evacuating a city directly in the path of one of the worst hurricanes in history – even though they knew it was coming days in advance!

The levees, built to protect the city from disasters like this one, were not maintained before the hurricane hit and couldn’t hold up to the impact of the water and wind. As a direct result of the funding of the Iraq war and Bush’s tax cuts for the wealthy, many U.S. Army Corps of Engineers requests for hurricane protection projects have been cut back or delayed since 2001."

Amen to that comrade!
First, the federal government isn't responsible for evacuating cities. That's the responsibility of the city/state. However, had the city of New Orleans, or any of the effected areas requested federal assistance ahead of time, then you might be able to point the finger at the federal government, however, a lot of people stayed because they believed they could survive.

The levees are maintained through city and state taxes, which Bush has no control over. If you want to blame someone for not maintaining the levees, fine, but the federal government isn't in charge of maintaining those levees.

"No one expected Katrina to be so devestating."

Hmm... they only said it'd be one of the biggest hurricanes ever to hit America on EVERY MAJOR NEWS NETWORK!!!

"No one expected Katrina to be so devestating."

Hmm... they only said it'd be one of the biggest hurricanes ever to hit America on EVERY MAJOR NEWS NETWORK!!!
Thanks for appropriately responding to my post. Who cares if it were the biggest hurricane to hit America? No one can grasp what that means. Everyone alive in New Orleans before Katrina had obviously survived every hurricane they'd ever been in before, so even if this one was worse than the worse one they'd been in, they survived the previous one, so why wouldn't they survive this? I fail to see how every one saying ahead of time that Katrina will be the worse hurricane to hit the US changes anything, honestly.

Thanks for appropriately responding to my post. Who cares if it were the biggest hurricane to hit America? No one can grasp what that means. Everyone alive in New Orleans before Katrina had obviously survived every hurricane they'd ever been in before, so even if this one was worse than the worse one they'd been in, they survived the previous one, so why wouldn't they survive this? I fail to see how every one saying ahead of time that Katrina will be the worse hurricane to hit the US changes anything, honestly.

Exactly. Who could have expected it to be so devestating? Sure, it was the biggest, but when you look at recent history, it's still hard to believe that one hurricane destroyed an entire major city.

You make some decent points, but even so, we should have been prepared for looting, and we should've mobilized BEFORE THE STORM HIT, maybe then we could've saved more lives by sending people little things like bottles of water.

You make some decent points, but even so, we should have been prepared for looting, and we should've mobilized BEFORE THE STORM HIT, maybe then we could've saved more lives by sending people little things like bottles of water.
There was some mobilization. Unfortunately, it was not enough, and now in the aftermath, the response has been mostly poor, however, when no one TRULY knows before hand exactly how bad it will be, I find your blind criticism sickening.

You speak as if nothing is being done. Rescue workers are busy rescuing people. Police are split up into those saving people and those preventing people from shooting people. It's hard to rescue/be rescued when you have a bullet in your head, you know.

You make some decent points, but even so, we should have been prepared for looting, and we should've mobilized BEFORE THE STORM HIT, maybe then we could've saved more lives by sending people little things like bottles of water.

While we're at it, let's make a time machine for the future to see just how bad it'll be...

No one could have guessed a signle storm could do this. Or rather, they might have guessed... but not wanted to see it and so didn't.

getting bottles of water aren't going to be the key to saving lives. It'll be major help, but in the end, being trapped in a flooded city with bottles of water still doesn't do much for you except give you something cleaner to drink.

I'm glad you guys are united in your opinions.

In a White House report it stated that a New Orleans disaster was the 3rd most likely catastrophe to happen in America and yet what happens? The tax money that should be helping our cities goes to an unpopular war, and the national guard meant for this sort off tradegy is off fighting in it, and how hard is it for the richest nation in the world to quickly get drinking water to a disaster area?

I fail to see how raving about what should've been done BEFORE Katrina helps to fix the problems we have now. The criticism being made RIGHT NOW needs to focus on what needs to be done NOW to fix the problem that is right here in front of us. When that's solved, let's go back and look at how to prevent future scenarios similar to this.

In a White House report it stated that a New Orleans disaster was the 3rd most likely catastrophe to happen in America and yet what happens? The tax money that should be helping our cities goes to an unpopular war, and the national guard meant for this sort off tradegy is off fighting in it, and how hard is it for the richest nation in the world to quickly get drinking water to a disaster area?

A direct hit like this, with such a strong hurricane isn't as common as you might think. Especially with the low shelf in front of them.

I'd like to see you getting water to peopole when driving is hard already, finding a place to land would be difficult, and people are shooting at you.

Can't throw money at that.

Will someone summarize this long ass article and explain to me how hurricane Katrina is going to kill capitalism?
This article is pro-castro garbage from one of the groups that the american people think represent my party.

Take back our party from moveon.org and Howard Dean. They are doing immeasurable harm to the Democrat Party.

"Can't throw money at that."

You're right, you can't throw money at a hurricane to stop it, but you can build more levees and prepare for the worst. ;)

Thanks for posting that article. It was hilarious.

If we only ran things like the former USSR - this could have been avoided.

"I fail to see how raving about what should've been done BEFORE Katrina helps to fix the problems we have now."

I fail to see a point in sitting in front of our computers all day and arguing politics, but whatever it's fun. And there is a point in revealing the flaws of our plans: making the public aware of the flaws in our government so people become more politically active, and showing people that this disaster could have been much less catastrophic.

"Can't throw money at that."

You're right, you can't throw money at a hurricane to stop it, but you can build more levees and prepare for the worst. ;)

I was talking about the people shooting those trying to help, not the hurricane.

Don't twist what I'm saying.

"This article is pro-castro garbage from one of the groups that the american people think represent my party.

Take back our party from moveon.org and Howard Dean. They are doing immeasurable harm to the Democrat Party."

I'm not a castroist I'm a marxist, and we're some of the most liberal people in the country. The democrats and republicans are virtually the same thing, they just have different names. They're both corrupt.

"I fail to see how raving about what should've been done BEFORE Katrina helps to fix the problems we have now."

I fail to see a point in sitting in front of our computers all day and arguing politics, but whatever it's fun. And there is a point in revealing the flaws of our plans: making the public aware of the flaws in our government so people become more politically active, and showing people that this disaster could have been much less catastrophic.
Do you have a problem reading?

I acknowledged the importance of debating what should have been ahead of time in order to prevent future scenarios on the same scale of New Orleans. You've got to learn from your mistakes.

HOW-THE-FUCK-EVER, there's a time and a place for that, and right now isn't the time. Wasting time discussing what should've been done before hand to prevent the problem we have on our hands does not fix the problem we currently have on our hands, does it?

If you were to get into a car wreck and were in critical condition, what would your response be? Would you be concerned with getting yourself to a hospital so that you have a chance of surviving? Or would you be laying in the street arguing with the other drivers involved about the cause of the accident and placing blame under the supposition that it would prevent future accidents? What if the time you spent arguing about what the other drivers should've done to prevent the accident is what ends up killing you because you can not get to the hospital quickly enough?

I apologize wizard glass, I thought you were saying you can't stop or further prevent a natural disaster by "throwing money at it," I did not see the part refering to the snipers.

I fail to see how raving about what should've been done BEFORE Katrina helps to fix the problems we have now. The criticism being made RIGHT NOW needs to focus on what needs to be done NOW to fix the problem that is right here in front of us. When that's solved, let's go back and look at how to prevent future scenarios similar to this.

Yes, you guys. Because if you talk about what could have been done BEFORE this disaster to have better planned for it, the hurricane wins! It's a silly statement. Let them talk about whatever they wish to discuss. Nothing we say or do on here is going to do any good except to let us express our opinions and hear the opinions of others, which we are doing. You don't like it. Don't read it.

Do you have a problem reading?

I acknowledged the importance of debating what should have been ahead of time in order to prevent future scenarios on the same scale of New Orleans. You've got to learn from your mistakes.

HOW-THE-FUCK-EVER, there's a time and a place for that, and right now isn't the time. Wasting time discussing what should've been done before hand to prevent the problem we have on our hands does not fix the problem we currently have on our hands, does it?

If you were to get into a car wreck and were in critical condition, what would your response be? Would you be concerned with getting yourself to a hospital so that you have a chance of surviving? Or would you be laying in the street arguing with the other drivers involved about the cause of the accident and placing blame under the supposition that it would prevent future accidents? What if the time you spent arguing about what the other drivers should've done to prevent the accident is what ends up killing you because you can not get to the hospital quickly enough?

How does discussing the problem we currently have FIX the problem? There is nothing anyone on here can do. A better analogy is you and I are driving down the highway and we see a car wreck on the side of the road. A cop is waving us through. After we pass, I say, "Wow, that guy was probably driving too fast in this weather." Your response - "WTF, are you crazy?!?! We can't discuss how this happened now. It does no good. Now is the time for us to discuss how people OTHER THAN US should be fixing it, because that, uh, somehow makes a difference."

So where does the Capitalism part come in?

It seems that there is one example of private businesses not being charitable in that entire article.

Don't blame capitalism for the ineffectiveness of our government in handling this disaster.


On another note, if we would have named it Hurricane Khalil, we would have somehow been more prepared.

How does discussing the problem we currently have FIX the problem? There is nothing anyone on here can do. A better analogy is you and I are driving down the highway and we see a car wreck on the side of the road. A cop is waving us through. After we pass, I say, "Wow, that guy was probably driving too fast in this weather." Your response - "WTF, are you crazy?!?! We can't discuss how this happened now. It does no good. Now is the time for us to discuss how people OTHER THAN US should be fixing it, because that, uh, somehow makes a difference."
Except in your analogy, the cops aren't waving us through. The cops are urging us for assistance, and that's not the time to be talking about how that accident could've been prevented. It's the time to figure how best to handle the situation on hand.

Except in your analogy, the cops aren't waving us through. The cops are urging us for assistance, and that's not the time to be talking about how that accident could've been prevented. It's the time to figure how best to handle the situation on hand.

Who's asking us for assistance? My donations have already been sent. I'm not quitting my job to go there, so nothing us talking here is going to make any difference at all. No matter what we talk about. In my opinion, now is the perfect time to analyze the past and current actions of the administration regarding this tragedy while it's fresh in our minds. It's been poorly handled and it is being poorly handled and it should be shouted from the rooftops.

No one expected Katrina to be so devestating.
The NOAA was forecasting the Apocalypse before a mandatory evacuation order was given.

The NOAA was forecasting the Apocalypse before a mandatory evacuation order was given.


Have any of you all ever been through a hurricane? You make the decision to leave your home sound so easy. It is a heartwrenching decision to make! It is also incredibly difficult for a local government to determine when to call for an evacuation.

I tried to evacuate before Hurricane Floyd (after staying through 5 earlier hurricanes) because it was a 4 and projected to be a 5. However, it took me over an hour to travel the same distance that normally takes me 10 minutes. The roads were clogged with every Tom Dick and Harry running from Florida, Georgia and South Carolina because those governments had prematurely ordered widespread evacuations. We had to stay home because we would rather ride the storm out in our house than in the car. When the damn storm came ashore in North Carolina, about 200,000 people were stuck in its direct path because the government was too cautious!!

Luckily Floyd downgraded to a strong 2 right before it made landfall.

Then after the hurricane, the city was an island with flood waters surrounding it on 2 sides, a river on a 3rd, and the ocean on the 4th. I was so thankful I didn't leave. If I had, I would have lost my livlihood and wouldn't have been able to help those that sufferred real damage.

Everyone who has lived for very long in a hurricane prone area knows the score and has had similar experiences.

Finally, the winds were high a full 24 hours before Katrina hit. Planes could not safely fly in and out.

Hind site is always 20/20.

The advantage that Cuba had over Miami was that they were an ISLAND nation of people who had lived on an ISLAND for most, if not all of their lives. Further, Cuba is, for the most part, above the water level. New Orleans is below sea level and on the mainland. As a result, they haven't got quite the experience with storms this big that people who live farther out at sea do, and they have the problems with living in a bowl that closely borders the ocean.
The only benefit that Cuban government had over the American one was that they (the Cubans) are totalitarian so it was a matter of "Come with us and/or die" as opposed to the American government's "Please get out, please" efforts. People who died because they opted to stay behind got what they deserved, if you want freedom of movement you must have the intelligence about when to use it.
Further, the looters are not looting just "to survive". They are stealing more shoes than they could hope to wear in a month, weapons, fridges, air conditioners, etc. No one needs to eat T.V.s and your survival doesn't depend on $200 shoes. Survival in these situations may warrant petty theft, and that means stealing no more than the minimum (the cheapest pair of boots, a bottle of water, and a granola bar).
I could go on, but I have an English essay to write, so, bollux to you oppurtunistic commie bastards!

"Don't blame capitalism for the ineffectiveness of our government in handling this disaster."

The government is full of capitalist pigs, and do not by fooled by who truly runs the country.

"Don't blame capitalism for the ineffectiveness of our government in handling this disaster."

The government is full of capitalist pigs, and do not by fooled by who truly runs the country.

Is this statement meant to further the discussion, or dissolve it into an asinine shouting match?

Well, the much vaunted capitalist consumerite culture didn't manage to do much in this instance. Nothing useful, anyway. A different society might very well have averted much of this ongoing disgrace. Of course, it's a moot point - this is what the people in New Orleans are stuck with, let's hope the emphasis remains on rescuing people, all and as many people as possible, and screw wasting resoucres on securing property. Time enough for that after everyone's out. Misplacing priorities allowed this to happen in the first place, continuing to misplace priorities will only add needlessly to this tragedy.

Katrina was different from most hurricanes. It was the most devestating in decades. It wiped out an entire city off the face of the map. New Orleans is basicly buildings in a lake now. No one could have predicted that it would have devestated New Orleans so much. Plus, people are blaming Bush for it without any hesitation. Hurricanes have cycles too, you know. There are years where there are alot. There are years where there are barely any. Some years have stronger ones than other years. Plus, you can't blame it directly on capitalism. Captialism is basicly the only economic system that allows for true donations. Can't say the same for communist "give it to us NOW or die!!!!!" nations.

Katrina was different from most hurricanes. It was the most devestating in decades. It wiped out an entire city off the face of the map. New Orleans is basicly buildings in a lake now. No one could have predicted that it would have devestated New Orleans so much. Plus, people are blaming Bush for it without any hesitation. Hurricanes have cycles too, you know. There are years where there are alot. There are years where there are barely any. Some years have stronger ones than other years. Plus, you can't blame it directly on capitalism. Captialism is basicly the only economic system that allows for true donations. Can't say the same for communist "give it to us NOW or die!!!!!" nations.
...You don't really know what you're talking about, do you.

hahahaha...you just compared cuba to the USA....that is rich...oh boy they got the americans beat in Hurricanes!! WOOHOO!

Dicatoriships tend to be quicker then democracies..A BIG DUH THERE FOR YOU since ya know..you have no red tape since you are the only law in town.

hahahaha...you just compared cuba to the USA....that is rich...oh boy they got the americans beat in Hurricanes!! WOOHOO!

Dicatoriships tend to be quicker then democracies..A BIG DUH THERE FOR YOU since ya know..you have no red tape since you are the only law in town.

It isn't too hard for someone to leave their shanty town behind.

Antre_Travarious']This article is pro-castro garbage from one of the groups that the american people think represent my party.

Take back our party from moveon.org and Howard Dean. They are doing immeasurable harm to the Democrat Party.

A democrat with sense. I respect that. Do all you can my brother to take back the oldest party in America.

Now as to this thread.

*ahem*

Communism w ouldn't do anything differently and neither would socialism. Thank you.

Cuba, a socialist country which is organized to meet human needs, has shown that it’s possible to carry out large scale evacuations with very little resources. Less then two months ago, 1.7 million people were evacuated on short notice in preparation for Hurricane Dennis.

You're right, you can see how effective Cuba's evacuation plan is just about every month. A good amount of Cubans seem to have "evacuated" themselve to the US over the past few decades. Funny I don't see boatloads of Americans sailing to live in the Communist paradise that is Castro's Cuba.

Well, the much vaunted capitalist consumerite culture didn't manage to do much in this instance. Nothing useful, anyway. A different society might very well have averted much of this ongoing disgrace. Of course, it's a moot point - this is what the people in New Orleans are stuck with, let's hope the emphasis remains on rescuing people, all and as many people as possible, and screw wasting resoucres on securing property. Time enough for that after everyone's out. Misplacing priorities allowed this to happen in the first place, continuing to misplace priorities will only add needlessly to this tragedy.

My advice to you is read just how much money corporate america is donating to the American Red Cross to help with the relief effort. Not to mention private donations.

I donated 2 bucks yesterday to help with hurricane Katrina Relief and my father is on alert to fly Hurricane Katrina Relief.

So.... everyone is trying to do all they can to help. Some wont. Alwell. I'll find out who didn't and boycott them.

My advice to you is read just how much money corporate america is donating to the American Red Cross to help with the relief effort. Not to mention private donations.

I donated 2 bucks yesterday to help with hurricane Katrina Relief and my father is on alert to fly Hurricane Katrina Relief.

So.... everyone is trying to do all they can to help. Some wont. Alwell. I'll find out who didn't and boycott them.
I thought your dad was in Iraq.

or else those in NO would have to fend for themselves.

we believe in socialism in some cases.




just playing devil's advocate to the religious dogma of "free" marketism.

well, also, if they (we) truly believed in fundamentalism they spew,
they'd be advocating the revocation of ALL corporate charters.
those government licenses that give legal protections - privaleges,
surely distort anything resembling a "free" market now don't they?

actually, I am in favor of revoking any and all corporate charters,
but I can only do so in the state I live in.
no legal privaleges of limited liability. gee, maybe I should incorporate
and hire myself full time. then whenever I commit a crime...
'why don't you gov't types stay out of my business!'

corporations are corporations, legal entities that grant gov't sanctioned
privalege.
businesses are not necessarily corporations.
those pushing the corporate ideology try to confuse the two in our minds.
we must decolonize our minds of this utter bogusness lie.

http://www.poclad.org/

Oh, and just so you know.
I don't belong to any political party.
I think most if not all are corrupt muthas.
I just like sharing information.

Oh, plus taking on the corporate ideology is not
necessarily "anti-capitalism" or "socialism" or "communism".
If someone tells you it is, they actually... do not know what
they are talking about. I believe I've listed above enough
that one can recognize this, but since the original topic
mentioned capitalism, I thought I'd add this qualifer.

I thought your dad was in Iraq.

He returned a couple of weeks ago. I was counting down the days in various threads when people inquired about him.

snip.

I will speak for a lot of the free market advocates and say that we are very much opposed to corporate subsidies and priveleges.

I dislike them far more than I dislike poverty based welfare.

You're right, you can see how effective Cuba's evacuation plan is just about every month. A good amount of Cubans seem to have "evacuated" themselve to the US over the past few decades. Funny I don't see boatloads of Americans sailing to live in the Communist paradise that is Castro's Cuba.

Ahhh the old "boat people" argument.. I never get tired of this one..

Why don't you try to actually refute something in the article instead of attacking a straw man..

But, I'll answer you anyway :)

Actually, by percentage, few Cubans actually leave Cuba, and there are many issues involved. Firstly, before the Cuban Revolution the United States gave very few Cubans visas to come to the United States, but after the revolution the doors were opened wide. Secondly, the United States has held an unjust trade embargo against Cuba for 40 years (which has been condemed several times in the United Nations by almost every country in the world) which has caused the people of Cuba to suffer. Finally, the United States enacted the 'Cuban Adjustment Act', the only act of its kind anywhere in the world, which grants residency to anyone, no matter if they are a criminal or not, who leaves Cuba and reaches the United States in any fashion. Imagine if the same act applied to all of Latin America! How many people from other countries would leave for the United States? How many people leave places like Mexico and the Dominican Republic now?

And you can't compair a rich imperialist nation like U.S. to a small island nation Cuba that's been under attack for 49 years.

Let's do it anyway:

People lacking access to healthcare:
Cuba: 0
U.S.: 73 million

Homeless people:
Cuba:0
U.S.: 3.5 million (1.35 million children)

Persons per doctor:
Cuba: 280
U.S.: 470

Persons per hospital bed:
Cuba: 190
U.S.: 280

Infant deaths per 1000 live births:
Cuba: 6.7
U.S.: 7.1

Number of doctors working in underdeveloped countries at no cost:
Cuba: 5,000+
U.S.: 0

Number of countries hosting no cost doctors:
Cuba: 37
U.S.: 0

But, how does Cuba compare to other third world capitalist countries in the region?

Youth Literacy Rate

Cuba 99.8%
Mexico 97.4%
Colombia 97.3%
Brazil 95.8
Honduras 86.4%
Haiti 67.0%

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Proportion of Births Attended by Skilled Health Personnel

Cuba 100%
Brazil 88%
Mexico 86%
Colombia 86%
Honduras 54%
Haiti 24%

-------

Human Poverty Index (Lower Is Better)

Cuba 4.1%
Colombia 8.9%
Mexico 9.4%
Brazil 12.2%
Honduras 20.5%
Haiti 42.3%

Ninety-four percent of the population has electrical service -- surpassing the rest of Latin America and the Caribbean by some 20%. Television reaches even remote mountain areas and Cuban radio covers the entire island.

Or we can look at "before and afters":

Literacy In Cuba
Before And After The Revolution

1952 54%
2005 97%

-------

Life Expectancy
Before And After The Revolution

1955 59.4 years
2005 75.7 years (among the world's top ten countries)

Other accomplishments under socialism in Cuba?

Cuba is:

* among the top five Latin American countries in protein and calorie intake;

* compulsory education through the ninth grade and available to 12th grade to all youth; university enrollment exceeding 200,000 with another 90,000 students graduating annually from one of 600 technical and professional training institutes;

* elimination of underemployment and unemployment;

* the average worker has ten years of education; one of every ten scientists in Latin America and the Caribbean is in Cuba (although Cuba makes up only 2% of the region's population);

* 50% of all skilled workers or professionals (including physicians) are women; 29% of management positions are held by women.

Sources: UNESCO (http://www.unesco.org), UNDP (http://www.undp.org/), UNSD (http://unstats.un.org/unsd/default.htm), EPICA (http://www.epica.org/Library/globalization/eco-justice.htm), Encarta Encylopedia (http://encarta.msn.com/).

And, to counter some various arguments:

You have to fly to planes in in order to fly planes out.

And the point of this article is to point out that this didn't have to happen, and under a system of socialism it wouldn't have. A hurricane of the exact strength of Katrina hit Cuba in June and only 14 people died, this is on a small impoverished island nation! And that's the highest death toll in over 40 years!

And you can not believe any statistics that come out of Cuba, because you only know what the government wants you to. :headbang: