NationStates Jolt Archive

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/nagin.transcript/

That aired on the a radio station and is now hosted by CNN (both the audio and the transcript) completely uncensored. The FCC isn't going to do anything about it, and I'm glad.

But here's the deal, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin is exactly right. The Louisiana State politicians and the federal politicians need to shut the hell up, stop doing their public relations press conferences, and get shit done.

Granted, there is some progress now, but Nagin highlights one of the major problems of American politics--polticians spend way to much time talking about what is supposedly getting done, and not enough time actually doing stuff. And my favorite part: Ray Nagin cuts the BS. He uses strong language because that's how he feels, even though generally politicians don't get positive results from vulgar language. Nagin keeps it real.

So, here's this thread. Let's use it to discuss not necessarily the actual response to the hurricane, and not necessarily what should be getting done, but let's use this thread to discuss the problem with American politics that Ray Nagin has pointed out.

That's right... he's exactly the guy to "get things done." After all, he called for that mandatory evacuation, and it's not like he could've gotten thousands of people out of the city... oh, wait. he could have...
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015

Yes, that's right... while the hurricane was heading toward the city, hundreds of school busses sat unused in a lot and are now flooded. Here's to "the man of action," the Mayor of New Orleans.

http://www.m-nomura.com/st/images/nagus.gif

:confused:

That's right... he's exactly the guy to "get things done." After all, he called for that mandatory evacuation, and it's not like he could've gotten thousands of people out of the city... oh, wait. he could have...
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015

Yes, that's right... while the hurricane was heading toward the city, hundreds of school busses sat unused in a lot and are now flooded. Here's to "the man of action," the Mayor of New Orleans.
Because he knew before hand that it'd be this bad and he knew before hand that the levees would break and flood the entire city. On the other hand, now that we know what the after math looks like, he's not dicking around like many other politicians.

That's right... he's exactly the guy to "get things done." After all, he called for that mandatory evacuation, and it's not like he could've gotten thousands of people out of the city... oh, wait. he could have...
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015

Yes, that's right... while the hurricane was heading toward the city, hundreds of school busses sat unused in a lot and are now flooded. Here's to "the man of action," the Mayor of New Orleans.

Yes, those must've been the new self-driving school busses. I'm sure the private company that owned them wouldn't have minded. ;)

I have to say that since the dawn of man, politics has always been talk. That's why many things are just too important for politicians.

Because he knew before hand that it'd be this bad and he knew before hand that the levees would break and flood the entire city. On the other hand, now that we know what the after math looks like, he's not dicking around like many other politicians.
No, not him. After most of his police department went AWOL instead of protecting the population, he's managed to get his mouth in gear pretty darn well

Ray Nagin for president indeed.

Does anyone actually belive its the politicans that get things done ? That the world dosn't work if the politicans arn't out there working.. PLEASE

if you belive this you know nothing about politics at all. The politicans job is to be infront of the camera letting people know things are getting done. If not them who do you think should do this... relief workers ? That makes real sense. I say leave the politicans in front of the camera an dthe relief workers in the field where they belong.

And for those critizing the Federal government. How much faster do you think they could have moved. Dont forget the hurricane didn't turn category five till the last moments before it hit the coast (when it was already too late). There was no indication it would be this bad.. and in the aftermath... how long do you think it takes to organize food and supplies, to clear roads, to evacuate people... then at the same time stop the levies from continioully flowing water into the city and deal with snipers and out of control violence. People bitch things arn't going fast enough and yet its only been 4 days. Do you think this type of complicated legistical work happens overnight ?

Why not just drop water and food over those traped in the city... with no authority to direct it or disperse it... just look at them... they would tear each other apart. I wouldn't say the Federal government did a good job.. but i DEFINATLY woudln't blame them saying this is all their fault either!

I don't know how much quicker the federal government could've responded. What I do know is that if this were not a hurricane and it was an act of terrorism (some terrorists, for example, breached the levees), and the media reported it as such, the federal government would have responded significantly quicker.

And for those critizing the Federal government. How much faster do you think they could have moved. Dont forget the hurricane didn't turn category five till the last moments before it hit the coast (when it was already too late). There was no indication it would be this bad.. and in the aftermath... how long do you think it takes to organize food and supplies, to clear roads, to evacuate people... then at the same time stop the levies from continioully flowing water into the city and deal with snipers and out of control violence. People bitch things arn't going fast enough and yet its only been 4 days. Do you think this type of complicated legistical work happens overnight ?
I am tired of people saying "what could they have done, they didn't know it was gonna be this bad."
Bull shit.

Here is an excerpt from a text file on weather.noaa.gov for a Katrina warning. Pay attention to date and statements.

URGENT - WEATHER MESSAGE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW ORLEANS LA 1011 AM CDT SUN AUG 28 2005

...DEVASTATING DAMAGE EXPECTED...

.HURRICANE KATRINA...A MOST POWERFUL HURRICANE WITH UNPRECEDENTED STRENGTH...RIVALING THE INTENSITY OF HURRICANE CAMILLE OF 1969.

MOST OF THE AREA WILL BE UNINHABITABLE FOR WEEKS...PERHAPS LONGER. AT LEAST ONE HALF OF WELL CONSTRUCTED HOMES WILL HAVE ROOF AND WALL FAILURE. ALL GABLED ROOFS WILL FAIL...LEAVING THOSE HOMES SEVERELY DAMAGED OR DESTROYED.

THE MAJORITY OF INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS WILL BECOME NON FUNCTIONAL. PARTIAL TO COMPLETE WALL AND ROOF FAILURE IS EXPECTED. ALL WOOD FRAMED LOW RISING APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL BE DESTROYED. CONCRETE BLOCK LOW RISE APARTMENTS WILL SUSTAIN MAJOR DAMAGE...INCLUDING SOME WALL AND ROOF FAILURE.

HIGH RISE OFFICE AND APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL SWAY DANGEROUSLY...A FEW TO THE POINT OF TOTAL COLLAPSE. ALL WINDOWS WILL BLOW OUT.

AIRBORNE DEBRIS WILL BE WIDESPREAD...AND MAY INCLUDE HEAVY ITEMS SUCH AS HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES AND EVEN LIGHT VEHICLES. SPORT UTILITY VEHICLES AND LIGHT TRUCKS WILL BE MOVED. THE BLOWN DEBRIS WILL CREATE ADDITIONAL DESTRUCTION. PERSONS...PETS...AND LIVESTOCK EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL FACE CERTAIN DEATH IF STRUCK.

POWER OUTAGES WILL LAST FOR WEEKS...AS MOST POWER POLES WILL BE DOWN AND TRANSFORMERS DESTROYED. WATER SHORTAGES WILL MAKE HUMAN SUFFERING INCREDIBLE BY MODERN STANDARDS.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF NATIVE TREES WILL BE SNAPPED OR UPROOTED. ONLY THE HEARTIEST WILL REMAIN STANDING...BUT BE TOTALLY DEFOLIATED. FEW CROPS WILL REMAIN. LIVESTOCK LEFT EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL BE KILLED.

AN INLAND HURRICANE WIND WARNING IS ISSUED WHEN SUSTAINED WINDS NEAR HURRICANE FORCE...OR FREQUENT GUSTS AT OR ABOVE HURRICANE FORCE...ARE CERTAIN WITHIN THE NEXT 12 TO 24 HOURS.

ONCE TROPICAL STORM AND HURRICANE FORCE WINDS ONSET...DO NOT VENTURE OUTSIDE!

They are forecasting the mother fucking Apocalypse a day before Katrina made landfall and you are saying they didn't expect shit to be this bad?

I don't know how much quicker the federal government could've responded. What I do know is that if this were not a hurricane and it was an act of terrorism (some terrorists, for example, breached the levees), and the media reported it as such, the federal government would have responded significantly quicker.

maybe you would have seen them on the TV faster... but given this level of destruction over such a vast area... I doubt it possible for them to have been able to move faster on the ground.

and at the end of the Day... does it really matter if we see them on tv.. We see them now and people bitch they want them off the tv and in their offices doing stuff...

I am tired of people saying "what could they have done, they didn't know it was gonna be this bad."
Bull shit.

Here is an excerpt from a text file on weather.noaa.gov for a Katrina warning. Pay attention to date and statements.



They are forecasting the mother fucking Apocalypse a day before Katrina made landfall and you are saying they didn't expect shit to be this bad?

....wow that was a DAY before it made land fall.. by then the outter bands were already starting to hit the city... im saying NO they did not expect the storm to be that strong... 2 days out it was only a category 2... they expect at max a 3 which would have been FAR less devestating.

Its amazing how some peoples short term memories work
Here why dont you look at a little history of the storm...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina

....wow that was a DAY before it made land fall.. by then the outter bands were already starting to hit the city... im saying NO they did not expect the storm to be that strong... 2 days out it was only a category 2... they expect at max a 3 which would have been FAR less devestating.

Its amazing how some peoples short term memories work
Here why dont you look at a little history of the storm...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina
Well, this day and age we have this thing called technology. We are able to predict speed and hit location of hurricanes with near accuracy 3 days ahead of time. Five days tenuously. It was a category 1 when it hit Florida. It became a category five 24 hours before slamming into Louisiana. Four hours later the National Weather Service was predicting death, destruction, and a visit by Carrot Top. The moment that report was released: 20 hours before Katrina made full landfall; an effort should have already been under way to have rescue groups up and ready to go. Are you telling me with the by the minute reporting of such things and a 20 hour headstart, the government is incapable of preparing enough recovery teams to have shit in just one city in order?

No, not him. After most of his police department went AWOL instead of protecting the population, he's managed to get his mouth in gear pretty darn well
And your solution to all of this was to shoot the looters. :eek:

Did you listen to the audio link, or read the transcript? Why do you hate New Orleans?

*snips*
And for those critizing the Federal government. How much faster do you think they could have moved.
*snips again*Three days faster. Four days faster this time tomorrow. I mean, c'mon... :rolleyes:

....wow that was a DAY before it made land fall.. by then the outter bands were already starting to hit the city... im saying NO they did not expect the storm to be that strong... 2 days out it was only a category 2... they expect at max a 3 which would have been FAR less devestating.

Its amazing how some peoples short term memories work
Here why dont you look at a little history of the storm...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina
From the very source that you supplied:

At 12:40 a.m. CDT (0540 UTC) on August 28, Katrina was upgraded to Category 4. Later that morning, Katrina went through a period of rapid intensification, with its maximum sustained winds reaching as high as 175 mph (280 km/h) (well above the Category 5 threshold of 156 mph (250 km/h)) and a pressure of 906 mbar by 1:00 p.m. CDT. Nonetheless, on August 29 the system made landfall as a strong Category 4 hurricane at 6:15 a.m. CDT near Buras-Triumph, Louisiana with maximum sustained winds of 145 mph (235 km/h). Its lowest minimum pressure at landfall was 918 mbar, making it the third strongest hurricane on record to make landfall on the United States.

That is a 30 hour gap before landfall. What about short term memory?

Of further interest in the Wikipedia article:

There are also major concerns about the Government suspending search and rescue efforts to focus on protecting businesses from looters. U.S. President George W. Bush has said that saving lives should come first but he and the local New Orleans Government have also stated that they will have "zero tolerance for looter". White House press secretary Scott McClellan said on Wednesday September 1st that looters should not even be allowed to take anything even food, water or shoes.
Good call? Sad!!

Heh...

NAGIN:
And I'll tell you, man, I'm probably going get in a whole bunch of trouble. I'm probably going to get in so much trouble it ain't even funny. You probably won't even want to deal with me after this interview is over.

WWL: You and I will be in the funny place together.

But yeah, this guy sounds like a real person. Imagine that! Unrehearsed local politicians speaking their mind. That's what this country needs. Whatever president we have, he never just goes out there and starts saying stuff. He's got trainers. People to make sure he doesn't... er, speak his mind.

To anyone who thinks politicians cant get anything done I offer up the proof of the do not call list the most important thing on congress' list of problems that they got that thing done fast. :rolleyes:

I'm sure Ray Nagin could be Mayor of New Orleans in perpetuity if he so wished it. And as for running for Prez, well, why the Hell not? He's the freshest political smell permeating America at the moment, the first whiff of fresh air in five long years.

Yes, those must've been the new self-driving school busses. I'm sure the private company that owned them wouldn't have minded. ;)

I was just thinking of that when the person above you posted the picture.

Thanks!

Ray nagin is an incompetent fool. He and his constituents were whining about buses and federal aid when they had buses right there, more than enough to carry everyone to safety.

Nagin is responsible for emergency preparation in his city, no one else. The state and federal government are backups. One question will be whether his emergency plan and implementation thereof were sufficient.

This is what the best known Katrina blogger has to say on the topic:

"Mayor Ray Nagin is getting a lot of positive press for berating federal officials yesterday, saying they need to "get their asses moving," stop calling "goddamn press conferences," and help his drowned city.

Well, bully for you, Mayor Nagin, way to talk tough. Unfortunately, you are the one who had the power to save the people of your city -- before Katrina struck -- and you failed miserably, as I noted at the time. And now, here is yet more evidence of your inexcusable negligence.

Because your plan (ha! like you had a plan) didn't involve actually evacuating the people you "ordered" to evacuate -- even though you could have evacuated them, or at least a whole hell of a lot of them, if you'd, well, had a plan -- you're out 205 buses, and perhaps 10,000 people.

"Too many cooks in the kitchen"? How about, "one too many idiots in the mayor's office"?

Did I say it's too early to play the blame game? I take that back. I blame you, Ray Nagin. Maybe not just you... but definitely, definitely you.

P.S. Take that "10,000" figure with a grain of salt. As I noted before, "wild early estimates of death tolls, formulated when everything seems utterly bleak and based on guesswork rather than facts, are sometimes wrong.""

http://www.brendanloy.com/

Ray nagin is an incompetent fool. He and his constituents were whining about buses and federal aid when they had buses right there, more than enough to carry everyone to safety.
Perhaps you will figure out why the buses sat idle and get back to us?

I don't know. He sounds sincere enough, but I can't help wondering if he's really just hoping this catastrophe will make him the next Rudy Giuliani.

Yes, those must've been the new self-driving school busses. I'm sure the private company that owned them wouldn't have minded. ;)

assuming it was a private company. they may well be the school busses for the new orleans public schools and run/owned/operated by the city school district... and judging by the sheer number, i'm guessing that probably was the case.

And i qoute from the wiki article:
"At a news conference 10 a.m. on August 28, shortly after Katrina was upgraded to a Category 5 storm, New Orleans mayor C. Ray Nagin, calling Katrina "a storm that most of us have long feared", ordered the first ever mandatory evacuation of the city."

He had 24 hours notice, and he knew it was going to be bad because he called for an evacuation. His solution was to tell people who had nowhere else to go to huddle in the superdome in the middle of the city about to be clobbered... while an entire fleet of transportation vehicles sat in a lot that would eventually be submerged. Telling people to go to a large concrete building was probably a good idea... but then not using it as a staging area to start getting people out of the city was poor planning.

That's right... he's exactly the guy to "get things done." After all, he called for that mandatory evacuation, and it's not like he could've gotten thousands of people out of the city... oh, wait. he could have...
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015

Yes, that's right... while the hurricane was heading toward the city, hundreds of school busses sat unused in a lot and are now flooded. Here's to "the man of action," the Mayor of New Orleans.No one expected those dams to break. Why else would the Bush administration have cut the budget to keep them repaired? There's not much Nagin can do now but there's plenty more the President can do than do his press shows. I've been watching the coverage on the German public channels, and the journalists in Biloxi when the President was there came across as slightly pissed off at how Bush has the gall to talk about some of the things he talked about and wander around with his entourage of White House journalists, putting on a show for their pleasure.