NationStates Jolt Archive

"Venezuela reiterates the offer of President Hugo Chavez to send fuel and humanitarian aid to the United States to help alleviate the effects of this catastrophe."

US State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said he was "not aware of any such offers" of aid or oil from Venezuela.

Caracas' offer came after more than one million people were forced from their homes in the southern United States by the massive hurricane.

The storm also shut down major US oil industry import and refining operations, leading to fears of fuel shortages in the short-term.

The offer also came after months of deterioration in the relationship with Washington, which has branded Mr Chavez a "negative force" in the region.

© 2005 ABC News

US State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said he was "not aware of any such offers" of aid or oil from Venezuela.Aid offer is falling on deaf ears...

Yea right. They were unaware of the offer of a foreign government to give us free stuff. An offer so well hidden, it took a bunch of teenagers on the internet to find and debate it. :rolleyes:

JUST TAKE THE GIFT GODDAMNIT!!!

Yea right. They were unaware of the offer of a foreign government to give us free stuff. An offer so well hidden, it took a bunch of teenagers on the internet to find and debate it. :rolleyes:

JUST TAKE THE GIFT GODDAMNIT!!!
Would you take a gift from somebody you hate? I wouldn't.

Would you take a gift from somebody you hate? I wouldn't.

I don't hate Chavez. In fact I love the guy.

But yes, I would take a gift from an antagonist. It's a proverbial olive branch, the right thing to do is accept, rather than refuse and deepen the conflict.

God bless Hugo Chavez.

Would you take a gift from somebody you hate? I wouldn't.The aid is not for the Bush family (like Saudi gifts)...

Its for poor desperate families hit by disaster....

The aid is not for the Bush family (like Saudi gifts)...

Its for poor desperate families hit by disaster....
True, but I'm sure we have plenty of food and medicine in the US, plus we have a strategic petrolium reserve. It's just that somehow FEMA and Homeland defense seem to have forgotten how to deliver it to people in need. I'm sure if the hurricane had hit Jeb's state this hard the aid would be pouring in as we speak.

True, but I'm sure we have plenty of food and medicine in the US, plus we have a strategic petrolium reserve. It's just that somehow FEMA and Homeland defense seem to have forgotten how to deliver it to people in need. I'm sure if the hurricane had hit Jeb's state this hard the aid would be pouring in as we speak.

Is Louisiana a red or blue state?

Would you take a gift from somebody you hate? I wouldn't.That just makes Hugo Chavez look like the better person than Dubya.

It's either a genuine expression of concern mixed with an attempt to improve strained relations with the United States, or it's a calculated move to try to curry favour with Americans and allow him to paint Bush with whatever negative brushes he would like to when Bush refuses as he probably expects.

Either way, outright refusing humanitarian aid -- even if it's from an antagonist -- would not be a smart move in my book.

Is NO a red or blue state?New Orleans isn't a state. It's a city. The state it's in (Louisiana) is a red state IIRC.

Canada also offered to help, including sending our Disaster Assistance Response Team and Armed Forces, but so far we haven't been taken up on the offer. I know of at least one provincial urban search and rescue team that has gone down to help in Louisiana, but thats small fries compared to the help we can provide. I guess the Americans want to go at it alone.

Didn't we also get an aid offer from Vincente Fox? What is wrong with the government that they won't accept aid? Are they too proud to accept aid from other countries?

That just makes Hugo Chavez look like the better person than Dubya.

It's either a genuine expression of concern mixed with an attempt to improve strained relations with the United States, or it's a calculated move to try to curry favour with Americans and allow him to paint Bush with whatever negative brushes he would like to when Bush refuses as he probably expects.

Either way, outright refusing humanitarian aid -- even if it's from an antagonist -- would not be a smart move in my book.

You are so full of it.

I'm sorry but this operation is costing the US $500 million a day. So please... shut up. There is no way that Chavez could even come close.

They better not accept it. It is weak Venezuela's way of leeching off a strong US.

You are so full of it.

I'm sorry but this operation is costing the US $500 million a day. So please... shut up. There is no way that Chavez could even come close.
Mes, for one day, you could manage to tone it down and not flame everyone who doesn't hold your political views?

Mes, for one day, you could manage to tone it down and not flame everyone who doesn't hold your political views?

Hey Sinuhue, could you for one day manage not use a fucking disaster, that effected my own family, for your own political gains? That goes for the rest of you. You should be ashamed of yourself. If my uncle was here, he would not spare any of you. He lost everything as I have found out too.

They better not accept it. It is weak Venezuela's way of leeching off a strong US.leeching off?

they are offering to Help....how is that leeching?

Many foreign governments have offered aid.
The Swedish government, like the EU as a whole, has offered assistance. So far there has been no reply to the offer. The Washington embassy is waiting.

Hey Sinuhue, could you for one day manage not use a fucking disaster, that effected my own family, for your own political gains? That goes for the rest of you. You should be ashamed of yourself. If my uncle was here, he would not spare any of you. He lost everything as I have found out too.No Mesatecala, YOU should be ashamed of YOURSELF.

I have nothing to gain from anything Hugo Chavez has to say about the United States. I have nothing to gain from President Bush either accepting or rejecting the offer of aid from Venezuela. I can understand that you're upset that someone in your family lost everything in the disaster, but that doesn't give you the right to flame people because they say something you disagree with.

God bless Hugo Chavez.

Indeed!

Even though he gets bashed by the Adminstration, even though a Religious Freak wants him dead, he still decides to help. And he helps those who really need it.

Hey Sinuhue, could you for one day manage not use a fucking disaster, that effected my own family, for your own political gains? That goes for the rest of you. You should be ashamed of yourself. If my uncle was here, he would not spare any of you. He lost everything as I have found out too. you and your uncle can speak for you 2...and anly for you...when The Venezuela emergency Crews comes to NewOrleans with his emergency Oil...you and your uncle are free to leave it for the next person in line.

But no...you are not free to spit on the venezulan workers faces

They better not accept it. It is weak Venezuela's way of leeching off a strong US.
Genius. I'd never thought of it like that...

leeching off?

they are offering to Help....how is that leeching?
Not physically leeching, mind you. Morally leeching. I have a thread on it where I condemn those that wish to give aid to the US.

That goes for the rest of you. You should be ashamed of yourself. If my uncle was here, he would not spare any of you. He lost everything as I have found out too.


Whoa! I have nothing to be ashamed of. Stating my opinion is not an example of me using a national disaster for political gain.

Is Louisiana a red or blue state?
Red, but most every big city is a blue area. I'd expect New Orleans, with it's large black population and it's artsy cultural people to be very blue.

Um, the big problem would be transporting this aid, especially as there is no major port nearby.

Not physically leeching, mind you. Morally leeching. I have a thread on it where I condemn those that wish to give aid to the US.
Oh, for God's sake... pathetic.

Oh, for God's sake... pathetic.
No, really. The US is a society where the individual is placed over society by most people. Venezuela, and most other societies on the planet, see the individual subverted to the family, nation, group, etc. The former made the US successful, and there is rapid growth in the societies dabbling into this. Venezuela does not even try, yet unwilling to admit that its people subjugation doesn't work, they want to jump on the bandwagon the easiest way possible.

Um, the big problem would be transporting this aid, especially as there is no major port nearby.

Houston, Miami, (dont know Mobile's condition but maybe even them), Corpus Christi to some extent.

You are so full of it.

I'm sorry but this operation is costing the US $500 million a day. So please... shut up. There is no way that Chavez could even come close.
Hey Sinuhue, could you for one day manage not use a fucking disaster, that effected my own family, for your own political gains? That goes for the rest of you. You should be ashamed of yourself. If my uncle was here, he would not spare any of you. He lost everything as I have found out too.While I'm sorry to hear of your family's loss, I nevertheless recommend that you calm down. These posts are not actionable in isolation, but do remember that personal tragedy does not grant license to behave uncivilly towards other players or toviolate NationStates rules.

After reading this thread, I fail to see how Sinuhue is using a disaster for her own political gains. Thus, your response to her appears to be inflammatory.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

Um, the big problem would be transporting this aid, especially as there is no major port nearby.Chavez has offered medical Airlift, Aerotransported troops and ..to Transport the Oil, and some other stuff.

Its not like he don't have an AirForce...or Navy.

People are dying, aid is slow to arrive, and someone comes offering help and the government turns them away.

How about we ask the people in New Orleans if they would accept foreign aid, I'm sure they would take anything right about now. The way I see it, Chavez seems to be attempting to make peace.

No, really. The US is a society where the individual is placed over society by most people. Venezuela, and most other societies on the planet, see the individual subverted to the family, nation, group, etc. The former made the US successful, and there is rapid growth in the societies dabbling into this. Venezuela does not even try, yet unwilling to admit that its people subjugation doesn't work, they want to jump on the bandwagon the easiest way possible.

That is the single dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Will the US government play the jerk and refuse help from governments of the world, Venezuela or otherwise? I suppose they could refuse help and then years later pundits will say, 'we are so generous and great we help whenever there is a disaster, and where are the other countries when we have a disaster'.
They will point to no relief and ignore that it was offered.

Similarly S. Hussein, one Iraqi, offered condolences for Sept 11, 2001
attacks. October 20, 2001 Posted: 2:12 PM EDT (1812 GMT)
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/10/20/gen.iraq.letter/
But I suppose that is just propaganda, since any "they", defined as "not us",
have no human feelings what so ever.


No, gov'ts of the world are helping.
Why should we refuse help, from DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED GOVERNMENTS SUCH AS VENEZUELA (2x even), or non-elected gov'ts such as Saudi Arabia or Pakistan?

Just because someone doesn't care for the Venezuelan people democratically addressing greivances against a historic oligarchy, the types of illegitimate wannabe aristocracies that have ruled most of Latin America since European
countries had them officially colonized.
Just because you disagree with their politics, people are dying.
A whole city wiped out.
Would you yourself refuse help from someone you disliked?
Would you rather starve to death? Would you let other starve to death? :headbang:

1-2 million people are homeless from this and in need of food, water, medical aid, and who knows what else... counselling the most probably.

Those of you saying the US can handle it on it's own... well have you heard the reports? Even Bush is saying they are doing a crap job.

This is goign to cost us over 20 billion (low estimate) and some of the big sillies who talk so much shit about having to pay taxes are the ones not wanting to accept help. Someones gotta pay for this and it will be the American taxpayer. WHy not let other nations help ease our burden?

People need more help than we are currently able to provide it looks like. The coordination is shit, communication is shit... Let people offer food, water, fuel, transportation, medcal aid and whatnot. I really don't get those of you that are so angry about Chavez offering aid (without asking for anything in return) or just not wanting any country to help us.

Just to state the obvious, any international aid offered will most likely not be of any use during the first critical weeks of this disaster. Any help offered, particularly financial aid, will be useful. Offers of troops and personnel will not be accepted from any nation, we have plenty of that - even if it's been slow in coming.

Chavez fuel would be appreciated, but remember that if he's offering crude oil that it's a heavy sort that requires more processing and is generally used for lubrication and heating - not gasoline.

I'm no Chavez fan, but were I the President I would accept the aid with thanks if I were assured that no negative political cost or conditions were attached to the gift - and there may be.

My understanding from CNN this afternoon is that we are accepting aid in general, with gratitude. Personally, I'm grateful to any nation who offered, even if we choose not to accept.

We should stop being so stubborn towards communism and socialism. The Soviet Union collapsed 10 years ago for crying out loud! Chavez is a democratically elected president, who's only trying to help the best way his poor country can. Just accept the aid and maybe people won't hate us as much.

... I would accept the aid with thanks if I were assured that no negative political cost or conditions were attached to the gift...I would accept the aid if I were assured the planets are aligned the rigth way...

I just saw part of a briefing - Ms. Rice on CNN. We have offers of help from all over the world, even poor Sri Lanka is offering to help. She spoke with thanks and gratitude, as she should.

I see nothing fundamentally wrong with rejecting aid, for any number of reasons, if it is done courteously and the offer is appreciated. And proper thanks are offered.

In the case of Sri Lanka, one might say "while we truly appreciate the offer, we know how much you need to do at home and how few resources you have." In the case of Venezuala, if it is determined that their motives are a political negative for us, we might thank them and politely decline - rather than be beholden at a later date.

I have no knowledge that Chavez has anything other than altruistic motives. But there's nothing wrong with considering the ramifications of accepting aid from his country. Some of his aid should be accepted if it is offered in friendship.

... if it is determined that their motives are a political negative for us, we might thank them and politely decline - rather than be beholden at a later date.

... considering the ramifications of accepting aid from his country. :confused: :confused: :confused:

can you give us an example of all this negative ramifications

:confused: :confused: :confused:

can you give us an example of all this negative ramifications

TEH COMMIE DOMINOES WILL FALL LIKE A PACK OF CARDS!!!

:confused: :confused: :confused:

can you give us an example of all this negative ramifications

The article below could raise concerns. You may have noted that I said I'm not aware of any reason, but merely that his motives should be examined. The man has been no friend of the US recently, based on statements he has made, so it might be possible he would use his offer for personal political gain. In that case it would be unwise to accept his offer - the oil is only worth a million, in any event.

"Some critics on Thursday said Chavez, a leading voice for the Latin American left, seemed to be using the disaster to try to make the Bush administration look bad.

While confusion reigned in New Orleans, Chavez said the looting was to be expected under such circumstances.

"As more information comes out now, a terrible truth is becoming evident: That government doesn't have evacuation plans," Chavez said Wednesday night during a speech.

He called Bush "the king of vacations" and noted he had been at his Texas ranch and when the storm hit and didn't provide leadership. "There were many innocent people who left in the direction of the hurricane. No one told them where they should go."

A controversy erupted in another disaster situation in 1999 when Chavez turned down an offer for U.S. military engineers to come help reopen a main coastal highway following catastrophic floods and mudslides. He said Venezuela didn't need the Americans' help.

The U.S. government has yet to respond to Chavez's offer to send planeloads of aid, including 2,000 soldiers, firefighters, volunteers and other disaster specialists. Venezuela, the world's fifth largest oil exporter, also pledged $1 million in aid through its Citgo Petroleum Corp., plus fuel to help in hard-hit areas.

But Venezuelan commentator Ibsen Martinez, a frequent government critic, said the aid offer by Chavez seems to serve other intentions as well.

"He's trying to win a political game," Martinez said. "It's very astute."

I'll say it again: if the gift is offered in genuine friendship it should be accepted.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/katrina_venezuela

The article below could raise concerns. You may have noted that I said I'm not aware of any reason, but merely that his motives should be examined. The man has been no friend of the US recently...The Man has been no friend of the Bush Regime. Period.

Mes, for one day, you could manage to tone it down and not flame everyone who doesn't hold your political views?

It's not a flame but a valid point. We here in the US do not have an overwhelming shortage of fuel or food the two things Chaves offered. The main issue with the situation in NO is logistics. That is getting food/ fuel in and refugees out. Chaves knows this and only makes the offer as a political manuver. That he wishes to claim his weak little nation 'assisted' the mighty US in it's time of need by sending supplies that were not needed. Ignoring Chaves's latest attempt at self-engrantisement is a right and proper response.

The Man has been no friend of the Bush Regime. Period.

Or even
the American government has been no friend to the democratically
elected president of Venezuela.

Chavez is in a win win situation on this.
He has offered help and help is needed
Either it is accepted and he looks good
or it is refused and he still looks good.

Did he do it for that reason?
Maybe.

I would suggest he has offered help because help is needed and particularly
by the type of people that he can identify with most and he gets the
bonus of getting to see the discomfort of the administration
having to deal with his offer.

It seems to have taken him about as long to offer aid as it took the US administration to offer recognition to the coup leaders when they attempted
to depose him.

Who wouldn't want to see the administration swallow hard and see some
benefit go to the poorest people at the same time.

Something I don't understand is why Bush didn't accept the Canadian DART team, but now there's three Canadian warships, a coast guard vessel and three Sea King helicopters being sent to Louisiana on Tuesday with relief supplies. Why not just take whatever is offered? And why take naval vessels that'll take 'til Tuesday to get there? We could fly stuff in... including DART teams. This is just the sort of thing they're equipped for.

Hate to think he's looking gift horses in the mouth. After all, there's people dying out there... the clock is ticking, and he needs every tool he can use to avert a further descent into chaos.

I find his behaviour throughout all this to be utterly bizarre.

I would suggest he has offered help because help is needed and particularly
by the type of people that he can identify with most and he gets the
bonus of getting to see the discomfort of the administration
having to deal with his offer.

It seems to have taken him about as long to offer aid as it took the US administration to offer recognition to the coup leaders when they attempted
to depose him.

Who wouldn't want to see the administration swallow hard and see some
benefit go to the poorest people at the same time.In the same post you make 2 very intelligent points...

and I love you closing comments...its Priceless

Something I don't understand is why Bush didn't accept the Canadian DART team, but now there's three Canadian warships, a coast guard vessel and three Sea King helicopters being sent to Louisiana on Tuesday with relief supplies. Why not just take whatever is offered? And why take naval vessels that'll take 'til Tuesday to get there? We could fly stuff in... including DART teams. This is just the sort of thing they're equipped for.

Hate to think he's looking gift horses in the mouth. After all, there's people dying out there... the clock is ticking, and he needs every tool he can use to avert a further descent into chaos.

I find his behaviour throughout all this to be utterly bizarre.what is the DART team?