NationStates Jolt Archive

No Fass, it's not zany.

An official of a secular government proclaiming an official "day of prayer" is very much zany.

Please don't troll this thread. Leave it for the faithful to gather together.

Gather all you want. Your prayers were not what I found zany, but the awkwardly populist actions of this governor, who would do well to remember that "two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer" and perhaps devote her attention to actually helping those afflicted by this disaster, instead of this display for the galleries. She should do her job, and leave the praying to church.

In my opinion, the Gov. was wrong in declairing a day of prayer. This violates the American principle of the Separation of Church and State. This is illeagal, and should be punished accordingly.

I am not familiar with the American Judicial system, as it pertaines to other state governments.

I don't pray, as a rule. I'm not attached to any particular faith. I am not a fan of the American corporate machine in the least, but I am horrified that people would use this thread to promote some anti-religious sentiment. People are dead. More people will die. Making light of this in any way is beyond disrespectful. You ought to be ashamed. :headbang:


Victims of Katrina and flooding. Friends and family of victims. My thoughts and love are with you. May you find inner strength you never knew you had, and may the damage to your homes and property be minimal.

I don't pray, as a rule. I'm not attached to any particular faith. I am not a fan of the American corporate machine in the least, but I am horrified that people would use this thread to promote some anti-religious sentiment. People are dead. More people will die. Making light of this in any way is beyond disrespectful. You ought to be ashamed. :headbang:


Victims of Katrina and flooding. Friends and family of victims. My thoughts and love are with you. May you find inner strength you never knew you had, and may the damage to your homes and property be minimal.

Took the words right out of my mouth...every last sentence.

Well done. :)

FEMA has good site set up to help affected people and has a list of reputable charities that are organizing relief efforts.

http://www.fema.gov/press/2005/resources_katrina.shtm

If you can spare some time, some blood (donating, silly :p ), or some money, check it out.

O Lord,

Thanky you for sending that enormous hurricane our way. I am especially enjoying the power outages, the flooding, the storm damage, the shortage of basic commodities like food and most of all, the widespread death and destruction. You truly are a great Lord. Amen.

Prayers are useless. Send money or assistance.

first post...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/14/AR2005071401695.html

O Lord,

Thanky you for sending that enormous hurricane our way. I am especially enjoying the power outages, the flooding, the storm damage, the shortage of basic commodities like food and most of all, the widespread death and destruction. You truly are a great Lord. Amen.

Prayers are useless. Send money or assistance.

An argument could be made that the Lord, great or not great, had nothing to do with this; rather, our unwillingness to cut back on our addiction to cars that burn too much gas, our unwilligness to invest in research for safer and cleaner fuels. Blame God, or blame ourselves?

O Lord,

Thanky you for sending that enormous hurricane our way. I am especially enjoying the power outages, the flooding, the storm damage, the shortage of basic commodities like food and most of all, the widespread death and destruction. You truly are a great Lord. Amen.

Prayers are useless. Send money or assistance.

God did not send this hurricane. And there is no stronger power than prayer. Now, please troll elsewhere.

An argument could be made that the Lord, great or not great, had nothing to do with this; rather, our unwillingness to cut back on our addiction to cars that burn too much gas, our unwilligness to invest in research for safer and cleaner fuels. Blame God, or blame ourselves?

I believe that the ills that afflict us are not sent by God, but by Lucifer, to tempt us to lose trust and faith in God. Those who claim that prayer has no affect, has never prayed and witnessed the results. God doesn't always give you what you want, but He always gives you what you need.

I believe that the ills that afflict us are not sent by God, but by Lucifer, to tempt us to lose trust and faith in God. Those who claim that prayer has no affect, has never prayed and witnessed the results. God doesn't always give you what you want, but He always gives you what you need.

My thoughts about Lucifer are probably best left another thread. Let me just say that the moral choices we have to make every day are the battleground between good and evil.

And there is no stronger power than prayer.

Yes, there is. It's called "action."

god may not have sent the hurricane, but he sure didn't try and stop it. I dont think that asking him to be merciful to the people he just allowed to be wiped out by a natural disaster is going to be of any use. So instead, lets send the people's of the affected areas a secularists prayer - food, blankets, and medicine.

Look, I'm just trying to say that "praying" is an easy way out for people who don't feel like donating money or time, so they can say they did something. If you truly cared you'd be donating to charities, or getting your ass down there to help yourself.

You really think prayer is the strongest power of all? OK. We'll pull out the military, the national guard, the coast guard, local authorities and FEMA and leave the people in New Orleans to fend for themselves, while the rest of us just sit back and "pray." Let's see what happens then.

[QUOTE]Look, I'm just trying to say that "praying" is an easy way out for people who don't feel like donating money or time, so they can say they did something. If you truly cared you'd be donating to charities, or getting your ass down there to help yourself.

You don't know what anyone who has posted here has done or will do to help. Let's not turn this into a exchange of insults or near insults about what people who post here are doing or not doing regarding this awful disaster.

Create in me a pure heart, O my God, and renew a tranquil conscience within me, O my Hope! Through the spirit of power confirm Thou me in Thy Cause, O my Best-Beloved, and by the light of Thy glory reveal unto me Thy path, O Thou the Goal of my desire! Through the power of Thy transcendent might lift me up unto the heaven of Thy holiness, O Source of my being, and by the breezes of Thine eternity gladden me, O Thou Who art my God! Let Thine everlasting melodies breathe tranquillity on me, O my Companion, and let the riches of Thine ancient countenance deliver me from all except Thee, O my Master, and let the tidings of the revelation of Thine incorruptible Essence bring me joy, O Thou Who art the most manifest of the manifest and the most hidden of the hidden!

- Bahá'u'lláh

(Compilations, Baha'i Prayers, p. 138)



]

I love how a natural disaster comes and decimates a part of America, and in spite of the suffering and death, there are still those who'd rather bash us. It makes me sick. I haven't seen any countries pouring billions of relief money into our pocket. We give, but we don't recieve.

Armageddon will come along and they'll somehow twist it to blame America/Republicans/Bush.

I've prayed for those in the gulf coast, and I shall continue to.

Shame on some of you for the trolling and flaming you're doing, it makes me sick how you try to cause bickering and your lack of heart. People are DYING! I offer two prayers:

One for the victims:

Watch, O Lord, with those who wake, or watch, or weep tonight, and give your angels charge over those who sleep.

Tend your sick ones, O Lord Christ.
Rest your weary ones.
Bless your dying ones.
Soothe your suffering ones.
Pity your afflicted ones.
Shield your joyous ones.
And for all your love's sake. Amen.

(St. Augustine)

and one for you horrible people:

My God, I believe, I adore, I hope and I love you. I beg your pardon for those who do not believe, do not adore, do not hope and do not love you, especially those who cause trouble. Most Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, I adore you and offer you the most precious Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ present in all the tabernacles of the world, in reparation for the outrage, sacrileges and indifference with which He is offended. And, by the infinite merit of His Most Sacred Heart and of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I beg of you the conversion of poor sinners, especially the people in these forums. Amen.

Being "respectful" as you put it does nothing. I'm sick and tired of stupid people putting roses in their msn names, regarding the tsunami, Chechnya, etc and then when I ask whether they've donated, they say they don't have the money. You creating a prayer thread on a forum does jack all. Why don't you do something useful and donate to some charity that will help people, rather than waste peoples time on an internet forum and not achieve anything.

I hope that all your prayerful folk will do more than just talk. Make your prayers mean something: donate to the Red Cross, or to one of the other organizations that are actually doing something to save the people trapped in this horrifying situation.

Don't just pray that everything will be okay. Pray for the strength to tell your kids that you sent the money for Christmas presents to the NO disaster relief efforts. Pray for the self control to give up driving for a while, to help deal with the off-the-wall gas situation. Pray for the strength of character to send an extra $50 down to help survivors, by giving up cable TV for this month. Instead of praying for a minute and then trotting off to buy a large double-whip double-espresso mocha flip on your way to work, send that coffee money to the people who really need it. Sacrifice more than just a few moments mumbling hopeful words to yourself...sacrifice some of your personal comforts, some of your luxuries, so that other men, women, and children might have a better chance at survival.

That's the kind of prayer the people of New Orleans will hear.

I hope that all your prayerful folk will do more than just talk. Make your prayers mean something: donate to the Red Cross, or to one of the other organizations that are actually doing something to save the people trapped in this horrifying situation.

Don't just pray that everything will be okay. Pray for the strength to tell your kids that you sent the money for Christmas presents to the NO disaster relief efforts. Pray for the self control to give up driving for a while, to help deal with the off-the-wall gas situation. Pray for the strength of character to send an extra $50 down to help survivors, by giving up cable TV for this month. Instead of praying for a minute and then trotting off to buy a large double-whip double-espresso mocha flip on your way to work, send that coffee money to the people who really need it. Sacrifice more than just a few moments mumbling hopeful words to yourself...sacrifice some of your personal comforts, some of your luxuries, so that other men, women, and children might have a better chance at survival.

That's the kind of prayer the people of New Orleans will hear.

Why do you and others think that the faithful sharing God's spirit on here aren't contributing materially and spiritually? If you look around you will notice that a large share of charities are administered by faith based organizations. The concept of brotherhood and helping is the foundation of most religions. As a Christian, if I were in a similar situation as the folks on the gulf, I would turn to my faith and trust in God's wisdom to help me overcome.

In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,

Dear Father, please make your presence known to those who are wreaking havoc and further victimizing the good people in New Orleans and along the gulf. Open their eyes to see that their actions are causing the suffering and death of innocents and make them repentent. Lend your strength and will to the National Guard and the police to quell this savagery. Lend your strength and wisdom to the aid workers that they may provide aid and comfort where it is needed most. Lend your strength and forbearance to our government leaders to make the best decisions. Most especially, Father, please give your suffering children comfort and the knowledge that they are in your loving embrace. Let them know that they are not alone and forgotten.

I ask this is faith and love of You, Father.

In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, Amen

Being "respectful" as you put it does nothing. I'm sick and tired of stupid people putting roses in their msn names, regarding the tsunami, Chechnya, etc and then when I ask whether they've donated, they say they don't have the money. You creating a prayer thread on a forum does jack all. Why don't you do something useful and donate to some charity that will help people, rather than waste peoples time on an internet forum and not achieve anything.

Perhaps we believe that prayer is not a waste of time, rather and we're called to intervene in prayer for those in need? You may see it as wasting breath to an invisible ghost on high but we see it as an offering to the Lord God, our omnibenevolent Creator, whom deals with all in a nature of Love and Justice.

I'm quite confident in declaring that many who 'waste [other] peoples time', as you put it, also walk the walk, giving according to God's desire. It's His money anyway, so we're just letting it go so that it may be used for His purposes. Man-effort? I'm sure there are others sacrificing that as well. There are many who are involved, but not limited to, the Red Cross and the Salvation Army.

Just take into consideration our perspective before you ridicule us. We believe prayer to be just as effective as our own action, and neither should be relied upon more than the other. It's a balance we're instructed to have, and those who truly love the Lord (and His creation) will gladly enact that balance.

Perhaps we believe that prayer is not a waste of time, rather and we're called to intervene in prayer for those in need? You may see it as wasting breath to an invisible ghost on high but we see it as an offering to the Lord God, our omnibenevolent Creator, whom deals with all in a nature of Love and Justice.

I'm quite confident in declaring that many who 'waste their breath', as you put it, also walk the walk, giving according to God's desire. It's His money anyway, so we're just letting it go so that it may be used for His purposes. Man-effort? I'm sure there are others sacrificing that as well. There are many who are involved, but not limited to, the Red Cross and the Salvation Army.

Just take into consideration our perspective before you ridicule us. We believe prayer to be just as effective as our own action, and neither should be relied upon more than the other. It's a balance we're instructed to have, and those who truly love the Lord (and His creation) will gladly enact that balance.

I was focusing on those people that were talking about being respectful. Using the whole "prayer" thing was merely putting it into the context of this thread. I'm agnostic, and am not a religion basher, but sometimes people really need to look past the words and into the meaning.

How bout all you naysayers who dont like prayer, stay out of the damn thread......you know people are posting prayers, so why come in here and be a negative force? There are 15 or so other Katrina threads....pick one, go in and rant about the "Stupid people who pray". And all of you giving your advice and judgements about making donations instead of posting a prayer....are you following your own advice? Have you sent any money? If you dont like this thread.....then stay out and be respectful. Its not bothering you.

May the lord show mercy upon those now suffering in New Orleans.

May the people join together to work in union for their common good.

And may those who grieve love ones lost find solace that they are now in the kingdom of heaven.


Funny God you have... first he does nothing to avoid the storm from destroying New Orleans and now he would help the survivors... don't think so. If God exists, let the victims die as God wanted them to be punished. If it is nature, go and help those people instead of waisting your time on praying.

Unless you think of course your God changes his mind very often and just drowns some people and later on tries to rescue some survivors.

--
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
- Epicurus

Funny God you have... first he does nothing to avoid the storm from destroying New Orleans and now he would help the survivors... don't think so. If God exists, let the victims die as God wanted them to be punished. If it is nature, go and help those people instead of waisting your time on praying.

Unless you think of course your God changes his mind very often and just drowns some people and later on tries to rescue some survivors.

--
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
- Epicurus

I'll answer you to the best of my extent.

God is indeed omnibenevolent, omnipresent, and omnipotent. So it was not He who caused the hurricane. You may see some like Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell try to make such an asinine remark in the near future, but know that there's nothing scriptural about their claims. However, you ask why He didn't stop it. Simple. This is a fallen world with a fallen nature, due to us as humans and the original sin. When Adam and Eve fell, everything was affected. It is, therefore, up to God to make sure the natural (and sin-ridden) state of the world remains in balance with itself until He enacts His promise to purge nature of its fallen state. He cannot then go out of his way to break the laws of nature if He feels it won't be for the betterment of everyone in the future.

Was Katrina terrible? Of course. Was it God's fault? No. Is God good enough to provide help where He sees it best to give it? Definately.

EDIT: I changed my post for the new thread. Thanks Cogitation. I'm much obliged for this.

All of the debate posts from the katrina thread have been split to here. I expect all debate about the efficacy of prayer or alternative courses of action (besides prayer alone) to be conducted here.

Given Euroslavia's earlier threat, Bottle, Zerkalaya, and Hyacinthos are currently under consideration for official warnings for topic hijacking and defiance of a Moderator order. We may let this go without official warnings, but if any of you three place additional debate posts in the prayer thread instead of this thread before that decision is made, then you will be forumbanned (or deleted if you have a forumban already on record).

iUnlock.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

You should offically warn them, it was more than obvious what the thread intention was, and they posted out of spite, they shouldn't just go off without at least an official warning. Rules are made to keep order and not to allow horse crap like that to happen.

Laborare est orare. To work is to pray, so there's no reason why anyone can't do both.

Laborare est orare. To work is to pray, so there's no reason why anyone can't do both.

Exactly. I pray and I donate. And if I knew I could sacrifice as much, I'd go to the disaster areas myself to help, although I do admit that I wouldn't know what to do once I got there...