NationStates Jolt Archive

This is not intended to be a debate thread (although i understand it will probably become one).

What are some of your basic stats (age/sex/location) and your belief on the reasons behind biodiversity ie. creationism or evoultion. Just trying to peg whether there is truly a demographic behind the beliefs.

Does anyone think there will be marked differences by region? If so why? Any other factors you can think of that might contribute?

Personally:
Age: 24
Sex: Male
Location: Australia
Belief: Evolution.

What if someone didnt believe in either? You dont have to believe in god to think evolution isnt a viable theory.

Though I believe in it.

I'm quite positive it will show that location plays a role in whether you believe in creationism or not. Why? Because I'm from Europe, I lived in serveral countries there, and I never even so much as heard the word creationsim until I came to this forum...

My stats:

Female
Age 31
Ireland (born in Germany, lived in Austria)
Evolution.

I find evolution to be scientificly plausible, it does in no way collide with my religious believes. While I don't hold any degree in biology or biochemistry, I am nevertheless interested in both subjects and the evolution theory is so far the best explanation we have on the origin and development of species.

Age: 19
Sex: Male
Location: Canada
Belief: Creation
Level of education: Beginning second year university

By the way, are you planning on actually going through the replies to this thread and creating a breakdown of the results (like "55% of Venezuelans over the age of thirty believe creationism" or whatever)? Cause that would be kind of interesting to see.

Male,
24,
GB,
Evolution.

Age : 20
Sex : Female
Location : NW Washington, US
Evolution

Age: 30
Sex: Male
Location: Germany
Level of education: German equivalent of a master degree in biology
Evolution

read this slowly if you dont yet understand: Evolution does not cover the origins of life. It deals with the development of species over time. It doesnt even hint at how life came to be. Yes, thats a big hole in the theory, but all the time you dont get this you're really in no position to argue against Creationism.

read this slowly if you dont yet understand: Evolution does not cover the origins of life. It deals with the development of species over time. It doesnt even hint at how life came to be. Yes, thats a big hole in the theory, but all the time you dont get this you're really in no position to argue against Creationism.

And as long as there are no scientific facts that support creationism, it remains a philosophy at best, theology at worst and cannot claim to be a scientific theory.
Edit: Btw, this thread is not meant for discussion. If you want to debate the issue, there are two different threads for you at the moment :

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9565902#post9565902 and http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=441521

This is not intended to be a debate thread (although i understand it will probably become one).

What are some of your basic stats (age/sex/location) and your belief on the reasons behind biodiversity ie. creationism or evoultion. Just trying to peg whether there is truly a demographic behind the beliefs.

Does anyone think there will be marked differences by region? If so why? Any other factors you can think of that might contribute?

Personally:
Age: 24
Sex: Male
Location: Australia
Belief: Evolution.


age: 24
sex: undecided
location: canada
belief: evolution
why: i don't think it's really debatable anymore. the idea is much older than darwin; the babylonians believed that all life was descended from fish and the idea was brought up by several pre-socratic greek philosophers (anaximander and empedokles most notably). several other philosophers/natural philosophers also brought the idea up before darwin or wallace, it's just that these two injected natural selection into it, which was enough to finally make it credible again after several thousand years.

what really clinches it for me, however, is what we've learned about genetics since then - how traits are passed on, how mutations occur. the high level of salt in our bodies is also a good indication that we were at some point underwater. our clear physical resemblance to other primates is empirically obvious. mitochondrial rna testing is actually being used to create an evolutionary tree that is very hard to fight against.

i still don't like natural selection, however. the evolution/id debate is not more accurately charicaturized as evolution/creationism; it is better written as natural selection/supernatural selection.

sex: undecided
That happens......

20
Male
Holland
Evolution


But evolution takes a looooooooong time, so I can't really be arsed

read this slowly if you dont yet understand: Evolution does not cover the origins of life. It deals with the development of species over time. It doesnt even hint at how life came to be. Yes, thats a big hole in the theory, but all the time you dont get this you're really in no position to argue against Creationism.

That's just semantics. The word evolution is more commonly used to mean the idea that the universe came about through natural processes without the need of (but without precluding the existance of) the super-natural. Scientists don't use it that way, but most of us commoners do, and there is no particular reason we shouldn't, especially since there is no other common term for the idea of a naturalistic origin of the universe.

Evolution isn't the only word that is used differently by amateurs and professionals. Many other words have different meanings and implications among different groups of people, and, or course, the meaning of words also changes through time. To put it simply: words evolve.

read this slowly if you dont yet understand: Evolution does not cover the origins of life. It deals with the development of species over time. It doesnt even hint at how life came to be. Yes, thats a big hole in the theory, but all the time you dont get this you're really in no position to argue against Creationism. You're right. This thread would have been better named "origin of species" or somethink similar. But the theory of evolution don't claim to explain the origin of live so your objection is invalid. Blaming the theory of evolution for not explaining the origin of live is like blaming the bible for not explainig the existence of my cheese sandwich.

Female
48
England
Evolution

Male
20
UK

Since studying microbiology intensively for a year I have come to believe in the endosymbiont theory. It claims that all living life that ever existed on the planet has originally come from bacteria that has evolved into so many species. it stretches over such a long time that it is the only plausible explanation for how life first started on the planet.

Male 17 UK(Europe) Evolution

But the theory of evolution don't claim to explain the origin of live so your objection is invalid. Blaming the theory of evolution for not explaining the origin of live is like blaming the bible for not explainig the existence of my cheese sandwich.

That was my point. my objection was against the title of the thread, not evolution. Im splitting hairs i know, but very significant ones: If people are going round claiming that Evolution explains the origins of life, they are no better than those who say God/Cows milk/Noodle did so.

Its more than semantics, its about educating people about the actual meanings and definitions of things so that everyone is on the same page. The god squad play fast and loose with the semantics of "theory", its poor form for the evolutionists to do the same.

Male
19
England
Evolution

I'm a biochemistry student, so I'm coming into frequent contact with the evolutionary theories. As for the origin of life, I wouldn't object to one day studying it in detail.

However, I'm not quite so sure about the phrase "Believe in evolution", as this implies it is a matter of faith, wheras it is actaully a matter of science (the two are hugely different.)

Male
26
UK/Germany

I don't think you can say I believe in evolution. It's not really an article of faith. It "just make sense". While religion, if you weren't brought up with it as the reserve explanation for the great unknown, has little to justify adopting it.

But this poll is a little lacking in terms of the non-Western world... Asia is large. In India for instance, I found pretty massive differences depending on people's education and religious affiliation. China would be a different story entirely.

20
Male
UK
Not Creationism

I voted for 'Europe: Evolution' because anyone with eyes can see evolution all around us, all the time. But as mentioned, evolution doesn't cover the beginnings of life, and although my beliefs regarding this aren't divine but scientific in nature, I certainly don't subscribe to the common scientific theory regarding the origins of life (which I assume you have dumped in with evolution). Mine are a little more unconventional, but more believable in my eyes. Hence my vote, though -- I believe in evolution, and although I don't subscribe to the common belief regarding the origins of life it is certainly more plausible than the one put forward by creationism.

Personally:
Age: 28
Sex: Male
Location: Germany
Belief: Lutheran Christian who is Evolutionist

Age 25, Male, Born Africa, living Europe

We were created a long time ago, and have evolved to get where we are.

Just a small point, I know that there are not many spaces for polling choices when you make polls, but I do object to "other"; would it not be better to break down the choices thus:

Americas (North and South)
Europe
Asia and Indian Sub Continent
Middle East and Africa
Islands and Oceana

That was my point. my objection was against the title of the thread, not evolution. Im splitting hairs i know, but very significant ones: If people are going round claiming that Evolution explains the origins of life, they are no better than those who say God/Cows milk/Noodle did so.

Its more than semantics, its about educating people about the actual meanings and definitions of things so that everyone is on the same page. The god squad play fast and loose with the semantics of "theory", its poor form for the evolutionists to do the same.
I'm sorry, it seems that I missunderstood you.

A: 20
S: M
L: Europe
Belief: Evolution

good idea for poll, btw :)

Male
32
America

Evolution.

Age: 20
Sex: Male
Location: North America
Evolution

Personally:
Age: 26
Sex: Male
Location: Australia
Belief: Mix

I believe God created life that through evolution he (I know it is a gender specific term) guided lifeforms through the millenia with the final result being humans.

God created the rules for existence.

What if someone didnt believe in either? You dont have to believe in god to think evolution isnt a viable theory.

Bascially because this is a generalised thread and there werent enough poll options to make as many as needed for more depth.


Age: 19
Sex: Male
Location: Canada
Belief: Creation
Level of education: Beginning second year university

By the way, are you planning on actually going through the replies to this thread and creating a breakdown of the results (like "55% of Venezuelans over the age of thirty believe creationism" or whatever)? Cause that would be kind of interesting to see.

Good thnking. Also the level of education note is a good point too. thanks :)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Beorhthelm
read this slowly if you dont yet understand: Evolution does not cover the origins of life. It deals with the development of species over time. It doesnt even hint at how life came to be. Yes, thats a big hole in the theory, but all the time you dont get this you're really in no position to argue against Creationism.

You're right. This thread would have been better named "origin of species" or somethink similar. But the theory of evolution don't claim to explain the origin of live so your objection is invalid. Blaming the theory of evolution for not explaining the origin of live is like blaming the bible for not explainig the existence of my cheese sandwich.

Fair enough. The was a little misleading. But i did try to make it clear in the original post that i was looking at biodiversity and the origins of lifes variety. And since from the creationist point of view the whole lot of studies of evolution, abiogenesis, big band cosmology, and non-flood geology often get clumped together under one heading i figured creationists wouldn't really care and adherents to evolution would be scientificaly adept enough to puzzle out my meaning without taxing themselves too much.

However, I'm not quite so sure about the phrase "Believe in evolution", as this implies it is a matter of faith
I don't think you can say I believe in evolution. It's not really an article of faith. It "just make sense".

We belive in evolution just as we believe in the theory of gravity or that i believe that i just went out for dinner at my favourite chinese restaurant. "it just makes sense" is fine. But believing evolution does not imply faith in this sense. I'm merely asking whether you BELIEVE that evolution is a viable theory.

Just a small point, I know that there are not many spaces for polling choices when you make polls, but I do object to "other"; would it not be better to break down the choices thus:

Americas (North and South)
Europe
Asia and Indian Sub Continent
Middle East and Africa
Islands and Oceana
This is a good point. There are many ways i could have split polling. I discarded the idea of a more 'geographically friendly' poll in favour of a poll that takes in the people likely to reply. I figured most people who use this forum and may post a comment, or vote in the poll, would be from North America and Europe, a smattering from Australia, and a handful from places in south america and africe. Hence my choices.


Hope that explains a few things.

Shall we add our level of education?

30
Male
USA, New Jersey
Evolution

Darn, I can't respond to the poll. There's no ":Other."

Age: 18
Sex: Male
Location: Sweden
Belief: Evolution.

Age:19
Sex:Male
Location:USA
Belief:Creationism
Schooling:Sophomore year in a university

24
Female
UK/France
Evolution
MA Politics

Darwin is on the British £10 note, and as far as I know, not many people were/are upset about. I don't think many people in Europe are against the idea of evolution.