NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20050901091050714

In Praise of Looting
Blaming Katrina's victims for not being rich

By Harry Looter
For Infoshop News
September 1, 2005

“The Iberville Housing Projects got pissed off because the police started to "shop" after they kicked out looters. Then they started shooting at cops. When the cops left, the looters looted everything. There's probably not a grocery left in this city.”
http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/

The devastation wrought on the Gulf Coast by Hurricane Katrina is clearly evident three days after the winds started blowing and the journalists scampered out from their hotels. Most of New Orleans is under water. The Mississippi and Alabama coasts are obliterated. The situation in New Orleans is dire as thousands of people struggle to survive and get out of the worsening toxic cesspool that the city is becoming.

In the midst of all of this pain and misery, the media and the authorities have decided that the central story now is the looting and “lawlessness” that are taking place around the city. The poor, mostly black, victims of Hurricane Katrina are being blamed for their response to the situation. Their logical response to having the homes and neighborhoods destroyed is understandable given that this disaster has been happening for a long time in their neighborhoods and lives. The ongoing disaster that they are reacting to is the catastrophe known as capitalism.

The media knows that playing up the looting on TV plays well in Peoria. Comfortable middle class white people watch the New Orleans situation on TV and resort to simplistic Christian judgments about right and wrong. Some of them understand that the “looters” have a moral right to take food and medicine, but they seize on news that looters have taken guns and TVs as evidence that the looters are bad people. The authorities help reinforce these beliefs with their constant pontification about how looters will be punished. This morning the authorities are further demonizing the poor people of New Orleans by suspending rescue efforts because some person fired at a Coast Guard rescue worker. We all know that if some white dude in a rich neighborhood that was under water fired at rescue workers the rescue effort would continue uninterrupted.

What exactly is so evil about taking a package of Pampers or some cans of food from a Winn-Dixie or a Wal-Mart store? These people are trying to survive in neighborhoods that are under water, with no services of any kind. Are the rescue workers, the media, or the state dropping pampers and bottled water into the flooded neighborhoods of New Orleans? Are the on-the-scene Fox News anchors putting down their microphones, rolling up their sleeves, and helping rescue people?

The media and authorities’ obsession with looting is racist, capitalist and simply inhumane. What difference does it make what people take from the stores near their neighborhoods? They have no access to food, clean water, diapers, medicine, shoes, liquor, cigarettes and all the things that they need to get through this crisis. It’s not like these corporate grocery stores are going to go bankrupt because hungry people clear out an inventory that will have to be destroyed once the waters recede. People are “dumpster-diving” from stores who are insured, well capitalized, and which will have to throw away all of their stock anyway.

The Government Can’t Help You

The failure of the American state to respond to this tragedy is abundantly clear at this point. In its typical fashion, the state will turn the situation into a circus before the capitalist profiteers move in. On Friday, American president George W. Bush will fly into New Orleans to perform a photo op while some residents of New Orleans are still trapped in their attics. Many poor residents will be dying as Bush speaks useless words about the catastrophe. The hungry and wet people won’t be fed by Bush’s visit, but perhaps if he falls out of a helicopter while surveying the damage, the residents can make a good jambalaya with the presidential corpse. Meanwhile, there are reports that Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice was laughing it up last night at a production in New York City of 'Spamalot'.

The catastrophe in New Orleans once again demonstrates the inability of the state to take care of its subjects, especially its poorest citizens. For all of the talk about “homeland security” over the past few years, very little homeland security was available for the residents of New Orleans. There are reports now about how the government cut back on programs that would have helped New Orleans weather this disaster. The immediate response by rescue workers was hampered by the fact that the Louisiana National Guard is stuck in Iraq, fighting and losing an imperialist war staged by Bush and his Halliburton cronies. The evacuation plan worked for middle and upper class people with cars, but apparently there was no effort to bus poor people out of the city as Hurricane Katrina approached.

If there is a silver lining in this ongoing tragedy, it involves the small acts of mutual aid being done by New Orleans residents for each other. This includes people rescuing people from flooded houses, people helping move sick people to dry ground, people sharing food and materials with each other, and much more. In times of natural or manmade disasters, humans have shown time and time again their ability to help each other out via mutual aid. These responses play out organically and can’t be organized by the state. In many instances, the state’s efforts interfere with this mutual aid and make situations worse. It’s pretty clear in New Orleans that the state totally failed the poor residents of the city.

Looting is not a problem in New Orleans right now. People have a right to take what they need to survive. Even if they take things that aren’t needed for survival, those of us watching from the comfort of our dry homes have no reason to complain about these actions. Finally, let’s remember that looting is a form of wealth redistribution. When rich people loot, they call it capitalism, good business practices, third quarter dividends, the new economy and “giving people jobs.” When your neighborhood is under water and there are no relief services in sight, taking diapers from a Wal-Mart is not a criminal or immoral act.

Hooray for the looters!

Dude, the poor people are stealing stuff from other poor people.

Dude, the poor people are stealing stuff from other poor people.

pardon me, but i thought the complaint was that they were looting big-screen tvs and such? is it common for poor people in new orleans to have such items sitting around the house?

pardon me, but i thought the complaint was that they were looting big-screen tvs and such? is it common for poor people in new orleans to have such items sitting around the house?
They are stealing from retail stores. I guess those places only employ the middle class right?

pardon me, but i thought the complaint was that they were looting big-screen tvs and such? is it common for poor people in new orleans to have such items sitting around the house?
The poor druglords maybe....

I don't have a problem with people in this situation looting food and drink, but I have problem with them looting firearms and then shooting at the people trying to bring help in.

How about instead of spending your time on here bitching about how much you hate the US Government, and average Americans, you go out and donate some money to the Red Cross or hell why don't you volunteer to go help in New Orleans? Don't need people like you flame baiting on the forums at a time like this.

They are stealing from retail stores. I guess those places only employ the middle class right?

employ =/ owned by

Hooray for the looters!

And I'm sure that those stole liquer bottles and the armed mobs attacking hospitals are all in the intent of helping the proletariat and not a desire to obtain more material wealth or drugs.

I have kids that need education and therefore have more of a need to your computer than you do. I think it should be redistributed to me.

I have problem with them looting firearms and then shooting at the people trying to bring help in.

and exactly how many people have done that?

The looters have morphed into a psycopathic mob. First taking food for the babies, then getting new Nikes and clothes, then electronics and jewelry,then using heavy equipment to break into pharmacies and banks and gunstores.

Now some of these looters are shooting at rescue personnel, helicopters, people inside hospitals, and even people waiting for relief at the convention center.

It's been a rapid devolvement into lawlessness - now, three days later, rapes and murders occur all night long.

Had the looting of all but food and necessities been stopped sooner, we wouldn't be facing snipers today.

A practical example of how well anarchy works.

CNN reports 2 looters were shot after a gun battle. The National Guard has shoot-to-kill orders. About time.

employ =/ owned by
They earn their income by selling those items that their store no longer posses. How many people do you think are going to have to get laid off because the shop owners will return to find that they have to restock their whole inventory. Also, owning a small convenience store or a shop at a strip mall does not make you rich.

and exactly how many people have done that?

Enough that all the gun shops have been totally looted.

You know what, if you love the looters so much how about next time there is a large hurricane you go to right where it is going to hit. Then you can loot all the shit you want, and for fun why don't you loot some firearms and start to shoot at people. Hell, why not go loot all the stores in your town right now? You can say that the corporations and the government oppression forced you to do it, I have no doubt that there are people who will support you on these forums.

most people who live "under the poverty line" have a cable T.V. package. I worked on an inner city house in Indianapolis once upon a time. It was a shithole, but it had cable and a bigscreen. Most of the houses on the neighborhood didi too.

Their logical response to having the homes and neighborhoods destroyed is understandable given that this disaster has been happening for a long time in their neighborhoods and lives. The ongoing disaster that they are reacting to is the catastrophe known as capitalism.

Some of them understand that the “looters” have a moral right to take food and medicine, but they seize on news that looters have taken guns and TVs as evidence that the looters are bad people.

I mean, you want food, water, medicine, that's fine. But I live perfectly well without a goddam TV, and if you want to convince me that taking a TV from a flooded store is morally and ethically OK, you have an uphill struggle.

If i was down there, id be looting too, heck, we probably all would. Looting looks like a lot of fun.

If I ever had the opportunity to paddle around in a little boat, searching for sunken treasures within the flooded streets of New Atlantis, I most certanly would take advantage of such a exciting opportunity.

The looting in flooded New Orleans really isn't an issue to me, theres not a shopkeeper there that wouldn't claim his entire inventory as a loss even if he wasn't looted, just from the storm and flood damage.

It's the looting in the outlying areas that aren't flooded that is a crime to me.

youra freakin retard....dimwitted apologist for rapist and crimminals of the worst sort.

yea i am some middle class white neo-con in peoria(lmao at that)

get a clue to what REAL LOOTERS DO...like gang raping children while they have guns to there parents heads.

oh woe is me...damn if i didnt spend all my money on crack and booze i could have been able to leave.

or,,,,damn,it's over..let me run out and snatch some stuff b4 the police and evil rich people come back!(like the ones that left the superdome did..b4 ironically the place flooded and hopefully washed most of the evil scum...er..exscuse me...noble poor misunderstood crimminals)out to sea.

yea..and i bet if anyone...rich or poor...black or white..shot at a rescue copter,i doubt,know ..i know...they would be treated the exact same way.

you give compassionate liberals like me...an impossible hill to climb with your pathetic,trite,nonsensical bullshit..sniveling...GARBAGE

ever watch platoon...?the black guy says to the rich STUPID yuppy...you gotta be rich to think like that to begin with!

they are now targeting tourists..because they cant defend themselves...maybe you should go down there and help out the 5x convicted felon thats waiting to rape rob steal with impunity...i am sure with your grasp on reality you could teach him the error of his ways...lol

or more likely,you will be sodomized and robbed,then killed and thrown in with the other victims...maybe that will assuage your guilt at being a spoiled twit.

take a walk in the ghetto or a disaster area then come back.

i know just as many scumbag poor people as i know scumbag rich people...evil is an equal oppurtunity employer.

stupid is as stupid does...evil is as evil does.

oh,and by the way...i bet there is thousands of destitute,poor blacks and whites..that are doing there damnedess to help there fellow man..regardless of color or station...rich helping poor..poor helping rich,and i can guarentee...they despise people like you justifying victimizing people when they are down.

i use to be poor..i lived in real bad areas...i was beat into a coma by some folks that lacked a moral compass(i'm agnostic)and now i have money...right is right...wrong is wrong....sitting in your chair you don't seem to know the difference....FOOL

nothing justifyies victimizing victims...unless your some stupid twit armchair,living off daddy,pie in the sky idiot!

go down there and take a stroll...bet you change your fuckin tune asshole.

your dumb as a...words cant describe your stupidity.

sorry for the rant...but REAL PEOPLE are getting hurt by REAL THUGS and crimminals,and you want to drag socialism into it?

your a pathetic exscuse for a human being...better get daddy to pay for another year or 2 of school because you need an education badly.

i have family there..and if they get hurt rather then helped by there fellow man..i will be mighty pissed...but you say it's ok...thanks... :mp5:

for the original poster

The looting in flooded New Orleans really isn't an issue to me, theres not a shopkeeper there that wouldn't claim his entire inventory as a loss even if he wasn't looted, just from the storm and flood damage.

It's the looting in the outlying areas that aren't flooded that is a crime to me.

and then there's the hospitals, the pharmacies, the gun shops, the car jackings, the armed mobs, and the people shooting at the helicoptors, etc.

It all needs to be stopped.

What gets me is that the people needing help aren't getting it because of having to stop the "real" looters and the people stopping the relief workers by shooting at/mobbing them.

When it's all over, they aren't going to look at the looters as the problem, they'll blame the Gov't and use it as justification to loot next time something happens.

how can any of us, who are not in the situation, judge those who are experiencing the aftermath first hand? I support the looters who are taking care of themselves adn their familys and not hurting others. What did the owners of the shops expect? to make money off of the dying, dehydrated people who likely couldn't evacuate? As i watch the news, i see poverty in the refugee "camp" and affluence 100miles away (white milionares who have something to start over with as they stay in motels with running water...)

anyway, all i'm saying is that we shouldnt judge people for what they feel they have to do to survive.

Black People with Rubbish Bins full of Food are Looters
White people however 'found' the food.

A bunch of shit I don't care to repeat
WARNED! For horrendous trolling/flamebait. Expcet to be contacted shortly.

That said, I think Free Soviets' initial argument should speak for itself. I was pondering weighing in when this thread first came up, but his premise is so self-defeating that it's not really worth my time or attention. I caught a troller though, so at least I contributed something :p

What do you expect would happen when you have one of the worst Natural disasters in recent memory, and then take away the law? It becomes like the Old West again.

anyway, all i'm saying is that we shouldnt judge people for what they feel they have to do to survive.

I don't think that anyone here is condemning those who are getting food, etc. to feed their families. It's when they walk out w/ a bag full of liquer and prescription drugs and those looting just to "get back at the man" and in the process end up w/ a new TV that has lead to the point that it's at now (raping, murdering, shooting at relief workers, etc.) that the issue needs to be stomped on.

On a counter note, those that are trying to sell bottles of water for $15 need to be treated just as harshly.

What do you expect would happen when you have one of the worst Natural disasters in recent memory, and then take away the law? It becomes like the Old West again.

Actually the "Old West" was quite civil in comparison to crime rates today. Ironically, most Law Abiding Citizens were armed and criminals were dealt w/ harshly.

This is more like "Road Warrior".

how can any of us, who are not in the situation, judge those who are experiencing the aftermath first hand? I support the looters who are taking care of themselves adn their familys and not hurting others. What did the owners of the shops expect? to make money off of the dying, dehydrated people who likely couldn't evacuate? As i watch the news, i see poverty in the refugee "camp" and affluence 100miles away (white milionares who have something to start over with as they stay in motels with running water...)

anyway, all i'm saying is that we shouldnt judge people for what they feel they have to do to survive.
Been said many times... loot food/medicine/clothes fine... survive... no one begrudges anyone who does that.

Loot tv's/jewelry/drugs... this isn't surviving, it's profiting from the misfortune of others. Dispicable.

how can any of us, who are not in the situation, judge those who are experiencing the aftermath first hand? I support the looters who are taking care of themselves adn their familys and not hurting others. What did the owners of the shops expect? to make money off of the dying, dehydrated people who likely couldn't evacuate? As i watch the news, i see poverty in the refugee "camp" and affluence 100miles away (white milionares who have something to start over with as they stay in motels with running water...)

anyway, all i'm saying is that we shouldnt judge people for what they feel they have to do to survive.

absolutely agree with you...if i am stuck there and i have to keep my kids alive..damn right i will go take food and water...but ...robbing tv's and and raping and shooting at rescuers..and using heavy equipment to bash down walls of a bank or pharmacy...please...thats a fuckin capitalist of the type your trying to impugne...of the worst type...your glorifying or justifying horrendous misdeeds to further your stupid agenda..kinda like bushhole and company...pity you..
this was intended for the thread starter. :mp5:

absolutely agree with you...if i am stuck there and i have to keep my kids alive..damn right i will go take food and water...but ...robbing tv's and and raping and shooting at rescuers..and using heavy equipment to bash down walls of a bank or pharmacy...please...thats a fuckin capitalist of the type your trying to impugne...of the worst type...your glorifying or justifying horrendous misdeeds to further your stupid agenda..kinda like bushhole and company...pity you..
this was intended for the thread starter. :mp5:

You know, I could have sworn Melkor told you to lay off the flamebaiting/trolling. Oh well.

I don't think that anyone here is condemning those who are getting food, etc. to feed their families.

i've seen several on this very forum do just that. and heard it in real life too. property rights must be respected, ya know.

It's when they walk out w/ a bag full of liquer and prescription drugs and those looting just to "get back at the man" and in the process end up w/ a new TV that has lead to the point that it's at now (raping, murdering, shooting at relief workers, etc.) that the issue needs to be stomped on.

but honestly, do we have any numbers on that at all? it seems to me that mostly we have a very limited number of incidents being repeatedly talked about. and let's not forget that new orleans wasn't exactly a peaceful city before nature sent things to hell.

On a counter note, those that are trying to sell bottles of water for $15 need to be treated just as harshly.

but they are just being good little capitalists. supply is low, demand is high. the ghost hand of christmas past requires that prices go up.

I find this thread and how people respond amusing, for this outcome is entirely expected. Thousands of people, most of them abandoned in New Orleans because they could not afford to leave, now find their city, their world falling apart. This is their apocalypse. Plenty of psych studies have been done in human behavior that would support that virtually all of us would be doing the same thing if we were stuck in such a situation.
And since when does looting pharmacies and drug stores not make sense in the middle of a disaster? The authorities can not provide for the citizens still there, including medical help, is it completely unbelievable that people would take care of itself? Shooting at the rescue workers? Stupid, but if you have been stuck for a couple of days in a quckly degrading hell, you might do desperate things to get help? And should we worry about the shop owners or their employees? I think their store is of little concern when they have no place to live, and probably won't for years. Not to mention that most stores will get insurance pay offs from the damage done by the storm and the looting. New Orleans is a dying city, and being stuck in such a place could destroy even the best of us.

Black People with Rubbish Bins full of Food are Looters
White people however 'found' the food.

BULLSHIT...right is right...wrong is wrong..black or white..poor or rich...apologist...shame on you.

WARNED! For horrendous trolling/flamebait. Expcet to be contacted shortly.

That said, I think Free Soviets' initial argument should speak for itself. I was pondering weighing in when this thread first came up, but his premise is so self-defeating that it's not really worth my time or attention. I caught a troller though, so at least I contributed something :p

sorry..if i was trolling or flamebaiting..i didn't think i was..i was just responding because i have family there...sorry if it came out a bit nasty

absolutely agree with you...if i am stuck there and i have to keep my kids alive..damn right i will go take food and water...but ...robbing tv's and and raping and shooting at rescuers..and using heavy equipment to bash down walls of a bank or pharmacy...please...thats a fuckin capitalist of the type your trying to impugne...of the worst type...your glorifying or justifying horrendous misdeeds to further your stupid agenda..kinda like bushhole and company...pity you..
this was intended for the thread starter. :mp5:
Dude. Stop. Now.

I just sent you a goddamned telegram and I don't like forum modding so knock it off now. Hit ALT+TAB and go do something else or watch some TV for a few minutes. I don't feel like dealing with this right now.

Black People with Rubbish Bins full of Food are Looters
White people however 'found' the food.
Well, I may be a little insensitive, but I have seen very few, if any, white folks, participating in the looting.

Probably most of the price-gougers are white, though, so maybe it balances out.

That said, I have not seen any network, FOX included, showing people with trashcans full of food. Usually it's such essential items as TV's, Ipods, or jewelry "obtained" from the nearest "open" jewelry store.

That said, I have not seen any network distinguish by race the looters.

Do you have a quote from any network that claims anyone "found" their food?

Conclusion: I think dragging race into this is in poor taste, and irrelevant. Secret aj man did make a good point - right is right, wrong is wrong, no matter what your skin color is.

i've seen several on this very forum do just that. and heard it in real life too. property rights must be respected, ya know.

And I disagree w/ the food issue. You , however, feel it's justified to take anything.



but honestly, do we have any numbers on that at all? it seems to me that mostly we have a very limited number of incidents being repeatedly talked about. and let's not forget that new orleans wasn't exactly a peaceful city before nature sent things to hell.

But it wasn't like this. There won't be numbers for months. They can't even tell how many have died, are missing, etc. The amount of stories coming in from different people (check real news sites, not just socialist blogs) keep increasing. Do you deny these things are happening in large numbers?



but they are just being good little capitalists. supply is low, demand is high. the ghost hand of christmas past requires that prices go up.

So because I don't believe in "involuntary redistribution of wealth" (ie stealing) I have to believe in pure Capitalism? Is your world really so black and white?

I still feel I have more of a need to your computer than you do. Why shouldn't I be able to have it "redistributed" to me?

Dude. Stop. Now.

I just sent you a goddamned telegram and I don't like forum modding so knock it off now. Hit ALT+TAB and go do something else or watch some TV for a few minutes. I don't feel like dealing with this right now.

sorry...done...just a little worried and emotional at the moment.

i felt i had to reply because i feel a bit helpless at the moment and worried...and kinda lashed out at what i felt was an exscuse for someone maybe hurting others,or a justifacation...wont happen again...sorry.

Well, I may be a little insensitive, but I have seen very few, if any, white folks, participating in the looting.

Probably most of the price-gougers are white, though, so maybe it balances out.

That said, I have not seen any network, FOX included, showing people with trashcans full of food. Usually it's such essential items as TV's, Ipods, or jewelry "obtained" from the nearest "open" jewelry store.

That said, I have not seen any network distinguish by race the looters.

Do you have a quote from any network that claims anyone "found" their food?

Conclusion: I think dragging race into this is in poor taste, and irrelevant. Secret aj man did make a good point - right is right, wrong is wrong, no matter what your skin color is.


Yahoo had some seriously racist captions on some of its images. It was discussed on another thread.

Well, I may be a little insensitive, but I have seen very few, if any, white folks, participating in the looting.

That said, I have not seen any network, FOX included, showing people with trashcans full of food. Usually it's such essential items as TV's, Ipods, or jewelry "obtained" from the nearest "open" jewelry store.

That said, I have not seen any network distinguish by race the looters.



Yeah, it's called editing.

and exactly how many people have done that?
Enough for Bush to redeploy 300 soldiers from the Arkansas National Guard to New Orleans with special orders to restore law and order using any means necessary, including shooting to kill. About damned time too.

sorry...done...just a little worried and emotional at the moment.

i felt i had to reply because i feel a bit helpless at the moment and worried...and kinda lashed out at what i felt was an exscuse for someone maybe hurting others,or a justifacation...wont happen again...sorry.
Thank you.

Yeah, it's called editing.
So you're saying that every network, local and cable, is deliberately editing out the evil white folks?

So you're saying that every network, local and cable, is deliberately editing out the evil white folks?

Yes, yes I am.



Seriously, I only bolded that first part of your quote because it was funny in a naive, stupid way. The big editing is in what is being looted. They are focusing on the most interesting part, that of violence and crime. As to why it appears that some many black people are looting is simply because the people left behind are the poorest, and strangely that just happens to be the cities black population. Of course, as to the why of that is for another thread I suspect.

Yes, yes I am.



Seriously, I only bolded that first part of your quote because it was funny in a naive, stupid way. The big editing is in what is being looted. They are focusing on the most interesting part, that of violence and crime. As to why it appears that some many black people are looting is simply because the people left behind are the poorest, and strangely that just happens to be the cities black population. Of course, as to the why of that is for another thread I suspect.
Well, who could argue with such impeccable logic.
Good night.