NationStates Jolt Archive

what are the highest gas prices in your city/town? what is the highest you have seen in your area and what is the average near you?

and for the poll basically would you be looting in New Orleans if you were?
(i would, i would be grabbing all the small expensive things like ipods, laptops, oakleys, etc.)

I'd take food and water, and possibly a gun and ammunition for self-defense. Nothing else is in any way justifiable.

No. I most certainly would not, and anybody who does needs to be given the harshest penalty available for the crime. Stealing food from abandoned shops, yes -- they need to survive, it's like killing someone isn't illegal if it was in self-defence really. Stealing iPods and computers -- no, that still makes you a criminal as you're not doing it to survive, and you should have the book thrown at you considering the situation. To take advantage of such a situation involving the deaths of so many to steal iPods makes you scum, in my eyes. People are suffering and dying, and you're taking mobile phones while the police are busy saving lives? This takes the term 'vulture' to a whole new level.

As for 'gas' prices, I haven't checked so far. UK petrol prices sit at about £1 per litre lately anyway, so unless they double or something I doubt we will really notice as much -- we're passed caring now.

In New York State Premium is generally $2.89/gallon

And no, I find looters despicable.

I wouldn't consider stocking up on vital supplies as looting. Not under the current circumstances anyway. And I'm sure no reasonable shopowner will hold it against people.

Nicking stuff just because people have their backs turned, though.. That's bollox. I don't break into your flat & carry off your ipod & laptop when you're on vacation, or visiting a sick mate in the hospital. I don't see how what you propose is any different.

I'd seriously consider finding a firearm, as I've just read an article about a medical convoy & a hospital being fired on by some maniacs in new Orleans. Viva human compassion & decency...

$3.00/gallon.

For food/water/blankets... things absolutely needed to survive, yes.

Nothing to sell later when I got out/to get at a... discount.

7. Thou shalt not steal.

I was pondering this question and I've been trying to figure out what would happen in the case of a similar disaster in the UK regarding looters. I just can't imagine the same thing happening on the same scale. (maybe it would, who's to know). But I got the idea that a country with a strong welfare state is probably going to suffer less in the way of looting simply because of the safety net it can provide. So people can look at all their earthly possessions floating away with a bit of dispassion and be thankful that they and their families are safe. Without this safety net I can see why it might seem more reasonable to try to grab as much as you can as a sort of compensation.

7. Thou shalt not steal.

Yup.

Taking food and water for yourself is a LOT less despicable than those who are looting to steal jeans, shoes, jersees, and other things. However if they were trying to steal my food or water I'd shoot because it's my SURVIVAL on the line.


It sure would be swell to get deputized though, get to atleast do something useful about the situation.

As awful as looting is, how much of the actually valuable stuff they are looting from stores do you think would be recovered and sold after or during reconstruction? Most of the warranties are invalidated (if you are wading knee-deep through water to break into a store and steal a laptop, good chance that bitch wouldn't have been sold anyway), or it is otherwise trashed beyond commercial sellability: clothes for instance. Most of it would just get trashed depending where it is.

I'd seriously consider finding a firearm, as I've just read an article about a medical convoy & a hospital being fired on by some maniacs in new Orleans. Viva human compassion & decency...

I keep telling people, Ragnarok is nearly upon us, but they never listen! They just give me strange looks...



Seriously, is such behaviour a new thing, or would this have happened 50 years ago too had the same situation presented itself? If it is new, how do we stop it before it somehow gets worse? I can't even imagine how it could get worse. More people joining in would be a start though I suppose.

I was pondering this question and I've been trying to figure out what would happen in the case of a similar disaster in the UK regarding looters. I just can't imagine the same thing happening on the same scale. (maybe it would, who's to know). But I got the idea that a country with a strong welfare state is probably going to suffer less in the way of looting simply because of the safety net it can provide. So people can look at all their earthly possessions floating away with a bit of dispassion and be thankful that they and their families are safe. Without this safety net I can see why it might seem more reasonable to try to grab as much as you can as a sort of compensation.

Even the most crime ridden city in the UK is better than New Somalia. Err, New Orleans.

And I'll bet the PD has a more competent leadership too.

un less your taking food to survive looters should be shot on sight :sniper: i doubt that you are going to eat flat screen tvs and sneakers from footlocker

In New York State Premium is generally $2.89/gallon

And no, I find looters despicable.


good question.

i would "loot" food and water to survive,i wouldn't need to steal guns because i have numerous.
i also wouldnt steal "items" from a person,thats just plain disgusting!

i may..may...snag an item or too floating by or if i was foraging for food and came across a store that was half flooded and was about to be completely flooded,i would probably grab something going to waste shortly.

intentionally go out and steal...never.

my brother lives in metaire,suburb of new orleans,i was just there 2 months ago with my daughter..had mad fun in the quarter,she's finally old enough to drink,but i just talked to him.(my brother)
he luckily is quite wealthy,and him and his family evacuated the day before to texas.thank god,because he lives like 3 blocks from lake ponchatrain,they thought they lucked out but we all know what happenned after the storm passed.
he lost everything...house washed away,all the family mementos that cant be replaced...everything.a cop friend went by his house in a boat and it flat aint there anymore.
however,he considers himself very fortunate compared to all the poorer folk that couldnt leave,and i feel very bad for them,no insurance...complete loss for many..very tragic.

gas....i had to go to my sons court hearing this morning(he won...yeah)about a 5 hour drive each way,spent 140.00 dollars in gas :mad: but what gets me even madder is i feel like i was gouged.
the day b4 i left,the station i go to for fuel was 2.49/gallon,this morning..10 hours later,it was 3.11/gallon!
you cant tell me he sold all his gas in 10 hours..bought new gas this morning at the new..higher price.he paid x for what was in his tank yesterday...how can he now charge an extra 50 cents for what he allready paid the old price for?
scumbag :sniper:

I wouldn't consider stocking up on vital supplies as looting. Not under the current circumstances anyway. And I'm sure no reasonable shopowner will hold it against people.

Well these are the people that chose to stay, and although they WERE STUPID, they'll get away with it....and if the Governor Blanco told the Police and NG to start shooting looters and criminals on sight, her voting base would die out very quickly.

Nicking stuff just because people have their backs turned, though.. That's bollox. I don't break into your flat & carry off your ipod & laptop when you're on vacation, or visiting a sick mate in the hospital. I don't see how what you propose is any different.

I'd seriously consider finding a firearm, as I've just read an article about a medical convoy & a hospital being fired on by some maniacs in new Orleans. Viva human compassion & decency...

[oye oye on] You gotta remember that gun owners caused this whole mess to begin with and you are more a danger to yourself than a theif and a gun will only be taken and used against you! [oye oye off] :rolleyes:

Get a GOOD rifle-SKS, AK clone, or a pistol such as a glock-and PRACTICE with it and keep no less than 1000 rounds of ammo with you for it.

I'd like to think I wouldn't. But assuming I was going through a "what is ethics, really?" phase I'd loot a new modem. My DSL has been on the blink the last few days.

Seriously, is such behaviour a new thing, or would this have happened 50 years ago too had the same situation presented itself? If it is new, how do we stop it before it somehow gets worse? I can't even imagine how it could get worse. More people joining in would be a start though I suppose.
I don't really know, but I suspect it's poverty related.

When people are completely disinfranchised they do weird shit. It happened in Europe during WWII, it happens on a regular basis in poor countries, and similarily inhuman crap happens - though rarely - in the USA.

I'm not sure, mind you, it's just the only obvious common thread I can think of.

And it's not an excuse. Shooting at hospitals & medical convoys.. That's probably the most unreasonable & psychotic thing I can think of. Makes me sick.

Gasoline in northern California is roughly $3.00/gallon.

I would most definitely not loot. If I were to steal anything, it would be food and water, like many other posters have already said. I'd also write down the name of the store or keep a mental note, then send a check for a little over the price of what I took after the whole ordeal. I don't know how anybody can justify stealing without agreeing to compensate the owner's loss in some form or another.

I also don't think England or any other country is immune from what's going on in New Orleans. This isn't about a government safety net - there are always people who take advantage of a bad situation.

I agree with an earlier poster about obtaining a gun somehow. If you know how to use one, if you've been trained, then a gun only really poses a threat to the person who's trying to attack you.

I personally would take things such as baby formula, hand sanitizer, food, penicillin, bottled water. Things you would need to SURVIVE there until help comes.

It would be evil to loot then sell these items though to someone else who needs it.

The people who are looting things like TV's are just stupid - I mean, with the evacuation they aren't going to let them BRING it with them and there's no electricity - so why do it?

What is really bothering me is even in the stadium women are being raped, guns are being shot at the helecopters and boats bringing in more evacuees. :mad:
Small children are on the brink of death due to lack of water & norishment.

I am glad to finally see the busses showing up -- and that Texas was humane enough to open their stadium, along with promising jobs & temporary housing.
It's going to be a long hard ride for everyone.

I don't really know, but I suspect it's poverty related.

When people are completely disinfranchised they do weird shit. It happened in Europe during WWII, it happens on a regular basis in poor countries, and similarily inhuman crap happens - though rarely - in the USA.

I'm not sure, mind you, it's just the only obvious common thread I can think of.

And it's not an excuse. Shooting at hospitals & medical convoys.. That's probably the most unreasonable & psychotic thing I can think of. Makes me sick.
There seem to be various different types of looter as well. There seem to be the real head cases who are the ones who seem to be getting most of the air time, the ones knocking off hospitals and so on. These are probably full time criminals who just see it as an easier way to get what they want with less chance of recriminations. It's the other category that are the scary ones- the otherwise relatively law abiding class who faced with such a disaster treat it like the january sales and go shopping.

I also don't think England or any other country is immune from what's going on in New Orleans. This isn't about a government safety net - there are always people who take advantage of a bad situation.
I didn't mean that the UK would be immune from looting - as you say some people will loot no matter what - I was speculating that a weak welfare state could contribute to make a person that bit more desperate as he sits in the ruins of entire posessions.

There seem to be various different types of looter as well. There seem to be the real head cases who are the ones who seem to be getting most of the air time, the ones knocking off hospitals and so on. These are probably full time criminals who just see it as an easier way to get what they want with less chance of recriminations. It's the other category that are the scary ones- the otherwise relatively law abiding class who faced with such a disaster treat it like the january sales and go shopping.

Yes! I was saying the same thing to my boyfriend. The people who are seemingly normal in every other way who situationally 'turn bad' really scare me the most. We can differentiate between the sane and insane in everyday life, but it's frightening how people who hold down jobs and pay taxes and all the rest never really had a strong moral compass.

[oye oye on] You gotta remember that gun owners caused this whole mess to begin with and you are more a danger to yourself than a theif and a gun will only be taken and used against you! [oye oye off] :rolleyes:

Get a GOOD rifle-SKS, AK clone, or a pistol such as a glock-and PRACTICE with it and keep no less than 1000 rounds of ammo with you for it.

Buy American.
http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-rifles-m21.shtml
http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-pstl-1911-mc.shtml

:)

[oye oye on] You gotta remember that gun owners caused this whole mess to begin with and you are more a danger to yourself than a theif and a gun will only be taken and used against you! [oye oye off] :rolleyes:

Get a GOOD rifle-SKS, AK clone, or a pistol such as a glock-and PRACTICE with it and keep no less than 1000 rounds of ammo with you for it.

just got done scolding my anti gun daughter over the exact same thing..lol...all i had to say was if a gang of scumbags,people that have zero morals(how can you rape and loot totally defensless people?)came to do us harm...should i reason with them?beg for them to not rape my girl or kill us because they CAN AND WILL...or would you prefer i shoot over there heads and tell them next 1 is in your worthless unrepairably miswired head!i bet they move on to the ext UNARMED victim,like they are doing now.
i just saw on the news,the worthless wastes,people with zero morals and not 1 wit of compassion or decency,are now targeting stranded tourists in n.o.because they are defenseless...i say shoot them on sight..the world will be better off,and you may save a child from being raped and murdered,and or parentless..so some p.o.s. can take your tv and get some quick sexual gratifacation
and i am not talking about some poor asshole stealing jeans from the local gap store.
shoot the worthless evil scum i say :sniper: :mp5: :sniper: :mp5:

Looting... I honestly don't know. It would really depend on how bad I was doing. That and no one should understimate the power of peer pressure.

Buy American.
http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-rifles-m21.shtml
http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-pstl-1911-mc.shtml

:)

I already own a US-made Springfield 1944 M1 Garand. Nobody makes good inexspensive rifles now adays. Oh and BTW, most AK rifles are American made nowadays. It's illegal to import foreign-made "Assault rifles" so they bring in the parts kits, add 4 american parts, and it's a US made rifle :cool: :D

just got done scolding my anti gun daughter over the exact same thing..lol...all i had to say was if a gang of scumbags,people that have zero morals(how can you rape and loot totally defensless people?)came to do us harm...should i reason with them?beg for them to not rape my girl or kill us because they CAN AND WILL...or would you prefer i shoot over there heads and tell them next 1 is in your worthless unrepairably miswired head!i bet they move on to the ext UNARMED victim,like they are doing now.
i just saw on the news,the worthless wastes,people with zero morals and not 1 wit of compassion or decency,are now targeting stranded tourists in n.o.because they are defenseless...i say shoot them on sight..the world will be better off,and you may save a child from being raped and murdered,and or parentless..so some p.o.s. can take your tv and get some quick sexual gratifacation
and i am not talking about some poor asshole stealing jeans from the local gap store.
shoot the worthless evil scum i say :sniper: :mp5: :sniper: :mp5:

Yup, a reason magazines come in 30, 75, and 100 round flavors. Just depends on how many Justifiable homicides you need to do :D

Yup, a reason magazines come in 30, 75, and 100 round flavors. Just depends on how many Justifiable homicides you need to do :D
You realise that you could argue that guns being so prevalent only makes looting worse and contibutes to the breakdown of law and order against which you need guns to defend yourself. These rapes and the more depraved examples of looting are being perpetrated by armed gangs who, by vitue of their weaponry are difficult for the police to deal with, to the extent that certain areas of the city are pretty much no-go areas for them.

i cant help but laugh, none of you understand. Having your home flooded and your city destroyed before your eyes will change you, it will drive you mad. lunatics and guns dont belong together, so dont tell people to get more guns, thats only going to make the problem worse. id also like to add, that if u were hungry you would loot, dont deny it. nobody is dumb enough to starve themselves if there is food, especially if your a parent.

i cant help but laugh, none of you understand. Having your home flooded and your city destroyed before your eyes will change you, it will drive you mad. lunatics and guns dont belong together, so dont tell people to get more guns, thats only going to make the problem worse. id also like to add, that if u were hungry you would loot, dont deny it. nobody is dumb enough to starve themselves if there is food, especially if your a parent.

Thank you condescending, first post guy.

And, you know, one can even be smart enough to share, buy, or trade for food. There's no excuse for invading someone else's store or house and looting. Period.

Yes I would, if I was desperate enough. If I was starving, and I see edible food behind a store window, I'm going to take it no matter what it takes.

Thank you condescending, first post guy.

And, you know, one can even be smart enough to share, buy, or trade for food. There's no excuse for invading someone else's store or house and looting. Period.If your basic survival is threatened if you don't, I'd find it excuseable. Moreso for a store than a house though.

You realise that you could argue that guns being so prevalent only makes looting worse and contibutes to the breakdown of law and order against which you need guns to defend yourself. These rapes and the more depraved examples of looting are being perpetrated by armed gangs who, by vitue of their weaponry are difficult for the police to deal with, to the extent that certain areas of the city are pretty much no-go areas for them.

No, it's the fact that there were hundreds of weapons left by negligent dealers (WALMART in particular) and the fact that the Powers-that-be don't allow the citizens to take their weapons with them when they flee NO.

I'd sure like to knock off a looter and take his gun though, I really want a new AK rifle...

Oh yeah, if I was starving with no of help in sight, that gas station mini mart is going to look mighty tempting.

tlusa o.k. $3.19 a gallen

If your basic survival is threatened if you don't, I'd find it excuseable. Moreso for a store than a house though.

Society only breaks down if people let it.

Now: okay, you're starving and thirsty as hell, you take a coke and sandwich. Bad, but not unreasonable. That's not unreasonable. But I'd feel better if I could trade/buy it. I'd certainly leave a few bucks.

riding more then 20 miles a day on a bikeical is looking good.tow wells way hoho and i have a felling it wont stope untell $5.00 a gallen

You realise that you could argue that guns being so prevalent only makes looting worse and contibutes to the breakdown of law and order against which you need guns to defend yourself. These rapes and the more depraved examples of looting are being perpetrated by armed gangs who, by vitue of their weaponry are difficult for the police to deal with, to the extent that certain areas of the city are pretty much no-go areas for them.

There's nothing anyone can do about that now, though. For anyone in the city who wants to protect him/herself, the smart thing to do is grab a gun.

A little perspective on the other stuff (and not in response to Snetchistan's post)... I doubt anyone's starving yet, but I'm sure a lot of people are suffering from severe dehydration by now. Any person who can fault the survivors for taking water is a truly heartless individual.

I would loot food, liquid, weapons, and maybe somethings worth value.(ex. high quility cigars, PSP, ect.) Also in Massachusetts the highest i've seen is $3.84!! JESUS THAT'S A LOT!!!

Now: okay, you're starving and thirsty as hell, you take a coke and sandwich. Bad, but not unreasonable. That's not unreasonable.

You do that, and there's going to be nothing left next time you need a coke and a sandwich. You have to make sure you've got enough to last until you can get out.

But I'd feel better if I could trade/buy it. I'd certainly leave a few bucks.

It'd be kind of a pointless gesture, wouldn't it? I mean, the only person who's going to see that money is the next guy that loots the store.

I heard an interview on NPR with the Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff. The reporter was getting really pissy with him, telling him of a convention center within 8 blocks of the Superdome of approximately 2000 people that had no food, water, etc, and were frustrated as hell when they saw one or two buses go by or a National Guard unit and were told to stay put, help was on the way. Michael Chertoff did not have that info immediately at his fingertips.

However, ya think those people might be out of there by now if it weren't necessary to have armed guards at all times? If the helicopters weren't fearful of getting shot down?

The looting isn't just stealing. It is delaying, and thru that delay, directly contributing to the deaths of even more people in NO who could have been saved if gotten to earlier. Despicable. :mad:

You do that, and there's going to be nothing left next time you need a coke and a sandwich. You have to make sure you've got enough to last until you can get out.

It'd be kind of a pointless gesture, wouldn't it? I mean, the only person who's going to see that money is the next guy that loots the store.

If you don't drink for 24-48 hours, it's kind of pointless anyway. I'm not endorsing looting. I'm saying that if one MUST (ie: there is no other way, you're trapped, whatever)...

Maybe. Probably. But that's not on my head.

If you don't drink for 24-48 hours, it's kind of pointless anyway. I'm not endorsing looting. I'm saying that if one MUST (ie: there is no other way, you're trapped, whatever)...

Maybe. Probably. But that's not on my head.Well, drinking a soda is pretty pointless when you're thirsty anyway... :D

Food and water: you bet I'd loot it. Survival is more important than sticking to one's morals. Like someone else said, I think I'd at least make a note of the shop from which I stole, so I could pay 'em back if I was capable later.

I'd probably consider a firearm if I had any idea how to use one ... however given my complete lack of expertise I think I'd decide against it for safety's sake.

I can kind of understand people stealing clothes. Your house has been washed away, you're stuck for days in the same clothes (and same smelly underwear)! I guess hygeine really has taken a back seat, though, 'specially in the Superdome - those poor people...

Anything apart from that, though - particularly those who are using this disaster as an excuse to rape, intimidate, and profit from others' misery - is completely inexcusable.

I wouldn't consider stocking up on vital supplies as looting. Not under the current circumstances anyway. And I'm sure no reasonable shopowner will hold it against people.

Well these are the people that chose to stay, and although they WERE STUPID, they'll get away with it....and if the Governor Blanco told the Police and NG to start shooting looters and criminals on sight, her voting base would die out very quickly.

Nicking stuff just because people have their backs turned, though.. That's bollox. I don't break into your flat & carry off your ipod & laptop when you're on vacation, or visiting a sick mate in the hospital. I don't see how what you propose is any different.

I'd seriously consider finding a firearm, as I've just read an article about a medical convoy & a hospital being fired on by some maniacs in new Orleans. Viva human compassion & decency...


[oye oye on] You gotta remember that gun owners caused this whole mess to begin with and you are more a danger to yourself than a theif and a gun will only be taken and used against you! [oye oye off]

Get a GOOD rifle-SKS, AK clone, or a pistol such as a glock-and PRACTICE with it and keep no less than 1000 rounds of ammo with you for it.

I just wanted to make two little comments:
1: Please don't misquote me. I have no problem with you agreeing or disagreeing with me, but don't put words in my mouth. The red part of the quote is your addition, it has nothing to do with what I wrote.

2: I don't see why people shouldn't be allowed to own whatever firearms they please, though I fail to see the wisdom in allowing a population to buy SMG's and the like.
That said, I'll not invest in one if I can help it. I'm a much too volatile person in real life, and would most likely not hesitate to use a firearm. I don't want to kill some random obnoxious person.
However, if the news are anywhere near accurate, I wager I'd find myself a firearm fast, if I were in New Orleans right now.