NationStates Jolt Archive

I'd like to open up this thread for people to share information on how to donate money or help out or mail out care packages or whatever for victims of Katrina and flooding. Personally, I'd like to get my community to put together care packages for the little kids in the Astrodome/Superdome (not sure if they're still in the Superdome), but I haven't the faintest on how to go about it.

Please don't come in and tell me that Americans suck and don't deserve our help, or anything of that nature. This is a tragedy, and the very least people can do is show respect and leave this, and similar threads, alone.

If you were to point me towards a program in which I could send in cash I would, indeed, help. However, I have no credit card, and I have no checks, because I don't have a job. Nonetheless, give me a method of sending cash, and it shall be done - even if it's a little, since I really can't afford more than fifty to a hundred dollars. But, every little bit counts, doesn't it?

Your efforts are noble and I know you mean well. Perhaps the Red Cross has some info on their website for those who would like to help. Worth looking into. :)

If you were to point me towards a program in which I could send in cash I would, indeed, help. However, I have no credit card, and I have no checks, because I don't have a job. Nonetheless, give me a method of sending cash, and it shall be done - even if it's a little, since I really can't afford more than fifty to a hundred dollars. But, every little bit counts, doesn't it?


I babysit for my pocket money. Over the last month, I've made $120. I have a few things I've already committed to spend money on, and I'd planned to start a university fund with the remainder, but I'm hoping to donate it instead now.

If you were to point me towards a program in which I could send in cash I would, indeed, help. However, I have no credit card, and I have no checks, because I don't have a job. Nonetheless, give me a method of sending cash, and it shall be done - even if it's a little, since I really can't afford more than fifty to a hundred dollars. But, every little bit counts, doesn't it?

Step 1. Check the phone book for your local Red Cross branch.
Step 2. Go there...walk in....give them cash.

That's it... :)

EDIT: Oh, I forgot. FEMA has a set up a good page on their website about hurricane rescue and relief efforts.

http://www.fema.gov/press/2005/resources_katrina.shtm

Your efforts are noble and I know you mean well. Perhaps the Red Cross has some info on their website for those who would like to help. Worth looking into. :)


American Red Cross website (with a donation button) (http://www.redcross.org/)

Canadian Red Cross website (http://www.redcross.ca/article.asp?id=000005&tid=003)


... okay, it says here "In-kind donations of food, clothing and other items, while well intentioned, are not the best way to help those in need. There are tremendous processing and transportation costs involved in shipping these items to beneficiaries. Local purchases of food and clothing are more culturally appropriate and effective. Red Cross supplies can be purchased in the immediate area, thereby reducing transportation costs. Cash transfers to the affected region provide the optimum flexibility to our Red Cross colleagues so they can meet the most urgent needs."



So maybe we could brainstorm some ways of fundraising in our communities (I say we because I'm sure I'm not the only one wanting to help but not entirely sure how to go about it.)


Also, Peechland, you rock. I've been meaning to tell you this all day.

donate via paypal: http://writerscafe.net/donations.html

Step 1. Check the phone book for your local Red Cross branch.
Step 2. Go there...walk in....give them cash.

That's it... :)

EDIT: Oh, I forgot. FEMA has a set up a good page on their website about hurricane rescue and relief efforts.

http://www.fema.gov/press/2005/resources_katrina.shtm


Muchos thanks you Delator. One more thing, it is possible to make sure that your money goes to a certain effort, correct? It is to say, I can say that I want it to specifically be used for relief efforts concerning Katrina? If not, in the end, it doesn't really matter, since the money will be used to aid someone, or something, and that's the important part.

I commend people for wanting to help... but if there's one thing that the tsunami taught me, it's that there are a great many kind people in the world who will give to those in need.
I cringe when I see people say, "I don't have much, but I'll give." Or saying they'll stop their own future plans for education to give.
Your lives and plans are important too. Don't forget that. There are many people in the world who don't have to dip into important funds in order to help.
I'm sure there are other forms of support that can be given which would be equally helpful to the victims of this natural disaster. (i.e., donating things you don't need, giving blood, etc.)

Muchos thanks you Delator. One more thing, it is possible to make sure that your money goes to a certain effort, correct? It is to say, I can say that I want it to specifically be used for relief efforts concerning Katrina? If not, in the end, it doesn't really matter, since the money will be used to aid someone, or something, and that's the important part.

When I donated after the Tsunamis, I specifically asked the money go towards relief efforts there. They told me "no problem." :)

Of course, they could have been lying right to my face, but if I'm gonna trust anyone, I think I'll trust the Red Cross :p

Step 1. Check the phone book for your local Red Cross branch.
Step 2. Go there...walk in....give them cash.

That's it... :)


What if my 'local' Red Cross branch would require 2 days' travel to get to? Sorry, I'm rather new to this 'caring about fellow humans' thing.

What if my 'local' Red Cross branch would require 2 days' travel to get to? Sorry, I'm rather new to this 'caring about fellow humans' thing.

Well, if you don't have a checkbook, you could mail cash. It's risky, but people do it (Think of birthday cards).

Just make sure you don't use a see through envelope. :eek:

... Your lives and plans are important too. Don't forget that. ...

Dammit, must ALL my plans be trumped by logic? I suppose I could sit outside the grocery store with a bucket. Although there've been a lot of scam artists around here lately, so I don't know how effective that would be. Maybe set up a bank account that people can give to and the bank can arrange the 'getting it to the Red Cross' bit?


... give blood ...

Neaness is now huddling in the chair, trying to protect her veins. Neaness needs to get over her fear of needles. And her tendency to slip into the third person.

My famly runs a couple small boutiques. We've had the RedCross put in candy machines and cash donation boxes. I would recconmend you see if you can do the same at your work. It's a great to get people to donate a regualr flow of cash to a charity that needs money, not just now. But in the long haul...

My famly runs a couple small boutiques. We've had the RedCross put in candy machines and cash donation boxes. I would recconmend you see if you can do the same at your work. It's a great to get people to donate a regualr flow of cash to a charity that needs money, not just now. But in the long haul...


Hmmm... I do think there are a couple of these kicking around town somewhere. But you do have a point. There's a bg disaster and everyone rallies and raises money. Then there's another, smaller disaster that doesn't make the news, and there's probably a shortage of money. Hmmm... *wheels of brain start turning*

Okay, so what about this plan: I write to the newspaper and make impassioned appeals for the public to donate money if they can, not just now but throughout the year. Then I accost people on the street and re-edu ... err.... talk to them?

EDIT: I've just realised that I've been awake for 18 hours. I'm going to sleep now, so I'll jump back in on the discussion in the morning. 'Night everyone.

Hmmm... I do think there are a couple of these kicking around town somewhere. But you do have a point. There's a bg disaster and everyone rallies and raises money. Then there's another, smaller disaster that doesn't make the news, and there's probably a shortage of money. Hmmm... *wheels of brain start turning*
Or more importantly the everyday disasters the Red Cross helps with, like famine and AIDs.

I'd like to open up this thread for people to share information on how to donate money or help out or mail out care packages or whatever for victims of Katrina and flooding. Personally, I'd like to get my community to put together care packages for the little kids in the Astrodome/Superdome (not sure if they're still in the Superdome), but I haven't the faintest on how to go about it.

Please don't come in and tell me that Americans suck and don't deserve our help, or anything of that nature. This is a tragedy, and the very least people can do is show respect and leave this, and similar threads, alone.


Look for the past few years I've been involved in charities doing what you have proposed. But it was always thro aid agencies that I have done this.
You are going to have to wait until the superdom is evacuated as it would be very hard bringing packages thro the city. To the best of my knowledge all these shelters are being evacuated so perhaps you could send the stuff to Houston where they are relocating the refugees.
Call the national gaurd to see if they have an idea where these packages are needed most, work on organising the campagin posters-radio get in contact with schools, these are great. If there is a college in your area go there too.
Email CNN or something like that to ask about donations. The salvation army are doing stuff too.
Its obvious but for care packages-
non perishable items,
also female products-you'd be surprised how many ppl forget this but your bodily functions don't stop working in a disaster(sorry if its a little gross for anyone!)
Blankets,
Crosswords(maybe lame but sitting around doing nothing isn't good
toys for kids
CLOTHES-I know most charity shops will only take pristine condition clothes but honestly if I had nothing accepting well worn clothes wouldn't bother me

There is always the red cross so get incontact with your nearest branch.
Good Luck.

Well, if you don't have a checkbook, you could mail cash. It's risky, but people do it (Think of birthday cards).

Just make sure you don't use a see through envelope. :eek:
Go to a bank and get a money order or casheirs check!

I dont know if someone as already raised this issue, but i´ll mention it any way. Jack Chambless, Economy professor in the Valencia Community College in Orlando, Florida, has stated in Fox News that help dispensed by the federal governement to the victims of hurricain Katrina is inconstitucional. He alledges that the founding fathers in Section 8, First Article of the Constitution, meant that no federal money should be given to relief victims from natural disasters, since this would equal charity. Mr. Chambless states that relief support to Luisiana and Florida is, in general, making living costs smaller, thus not giving incentive to the inhabitants of this region to move to other parts of the country; he further claims that when the federal governement awards money (namely for relief purposes ) to individuals living in such places prone to natural disasters, fully aware that sooner or later such places will be tottaly destroyed, people will remain in such disaster areas, which amounts to, as claimed above, the dispensing of public charity from public funds. What do you think?

Interesting. I like that our govt. helps people during natural disasters, but it should encourage them to move to safer areas because this shit gets costly for us all. I don't mind my taxes going to help people. I mind my taxes going to killing people and providing corporate welfare though.

Interesting. I like that our govt. helps people during natural disasters, but it should encourage them to move to safer areas because this shit gets costly for us all. I don't mind my taxes going to help people. I mind my taxes going to killing people and providing corporate welfare though.

What the gov't should do is take preventive action. This was a known danger and work should have been done to reinforce those levees.

New Orleans produces a large amount of money for this country and it is only reasonable that the national government that benifits so much form the capital produced in New Orleans ought to bear some of the cost for maintaining the place.

As for the FOX story. I don't think even mainstream conservatives are so evil as to suggest that New Orleans should be left to sink or swim on their own, only FOX would suggest such a thing. Look at the credentials of the guy they interview on this matter. The whole country to consult and they choose to talk to some lunatic community college professor? If this was a position that warranted any serious consideration then they'd have spoken to a university professor or respected author on economic affairs who held the same opinion. But there aren't any.

I find it particularly ironic that FOX news, while trying to argue the humanitarian praiseworthiness of saving Iraqi's from their own government doesn't want to spend similar funds to save Americans from natural disaster.

I dont know if someone as already raised this issue, but i´ll mention it any way. Jack Chambless, Economy professor in the Valencia Community College in Orlando, Florida, has stated in Fox News that help dispensed by the federal governement to the victims of hurricain Katrina is inconstitucional. He alledges that the founding fathers in Section 8, First Article of the Constitution, meant that no federal money should be given to relief victims from natural disasters, since this would equal charity. Mr. Chambless states that relief support to Luisiana and Florida is, in general, making living costs smaller, thus not giving incentive to the inhabitants of this region to move to other parts of the country; he further claims that when the federal governement awards money (namely for relief purposes ) to individuals living in such places prone to natural disasters, fully aware that sooner or later such places will be tottaly destroyed, people will remain in such disaster areas, which amounts to, as claimed above, the dispensing of public charity from public funds. What do you think?
Err...congress can provide for the general welfare.

People living in disaster areas wouldn't move out if they didn't recieve federal aid after a diaster like Katrina. They'd get the asshole who wouldn't give them money out of office so fast his head would spin. It's politically unthinkable now to even suggest that, which is why a professor who can misread the Constitution is the only one who has suggested it so far.

What the gov't should do is take preventive action. This was a known danger and work should have been done to reinforce those levees.

New Orleans produces a large amount of money for this country and it is only reasonable that the national government that benifits so much form the capital produced in New Orleans ought to bear some of the cost for maintaining the place.

As for the FOX story. I don't think even mainstream conservatives are so evil as to suggest that New Orleans should be left to sink or swim on their own, only FOX would suggest such a thing. Look at the credentials of the guy they interview on this matter. The whole country to consult and they choose to talk to some lunatic community college professor? If this was a position that warranted any serious consideration then they'd have spoken to a university professor or respected author on economic affairs who held the same opinion. But there aren't any.

I find it particularly ironic that FOX news, while trying to argue the humanitarian praiseworthiness of saving Iraqi's from their own government doesn't want to spend similar funds to save Americans from natural disaster.

Uh, what I am watching, they are now saying New Orleans will not be restored. sounds like they are abandoning an entire city. I'm still at loss as to what happened?

What the gov't should do is take preventive action. This was a known danger and work should have been done to reinforce those levees.

New Orleans produces a large amount of money for this country and it is only reasonable that the national government that benifits so much form the capital produced in New Orleans ought to bear some of the cost for maintaining the place.

As for the FOX story. I don't think even mainstream conservatives are so evil as to suggest that New Orleans should be left to sink or swim on their own, only FOX would suggest such a thing. Look at the credentials of the guy they interview on this matter. The whole country to consult and they choose to talk to some lunatic community college professor? If this was a position that warranted any serious consideration then they'd have spoken to a university professor or respected author on economic affairs who held the same opinion. But there aren't any.

I find it particularly ironic that FOX news, while trying to argue the humanitarian praiseworthiness of saving Iraqi's from their own government doesn't want to spend similar funds to save Americans from natural disaster.
Not any more it doesn't. THey're making it sound as if the city was completely devastated.

I read yesterday that their former mayor even suggested that the city be completely abandoned. I can't fathom how to abandon a modern city...

I dont know if someone as already raised this issue, but i´ll mention it any way. Jack Chambless, Economy professor in the Valencia Community College in Orlando, Florida, has stated in Fox News that help dispensed by the federal governement to the victims of hurricain Katrina is inconstitucional. He alledges that the founding fathers in Section 8, First Article of the Constitution, meant that no federal money should be given to relief victims from natural disasters, since this would equal charity. Mr. Chambless states that relief support to Luisiana and Florida is, in general, making living costs smaller, thus not giving incentive to the inhabitants of this region to move to other parts of the country; he further claims that when the federal governement awards money (namely for relief purposes ) to individuals living in such places prone to natural disasters, fully aware that sooner or later such places will be tottaly destroyed, people will remain in such disaster areas, which amounts to, as claimed above, the dispensing of public charity from public funds. What do you think?

This professor can go fuck himself. I'm sorry, but that is absolutely heartless.

its at times like these that the rule book should be tossed out. who cares what the founding fathers said in Section 8, First Article of the Constitution? thousands are dead, more dying, homeless, starving and whatnot. send some help for crying out loud...

I have been writing aid agencies for years now on this. A disaster happens and they cannot get water bottles to those who need it for weeks. What is the point since if you do not have water in 4 days you are dead. Sure if you don't mind drinking dirty water you are fine for thirst but then have to worry about water born diseases. Absolute incompetence if you ask me.

All they need is a chopper to distribute the water bottles, even getting the government to lend one to help would be nice.

Oh well just an idea, what do I know anyhow since obviously the government and aid agencies are getting water to the people who need it asap *Sarcastic* :headbang:

I can't fathom how to abandon a modern city...

The same way you would abandon a city from any other time period, except the last person to leave turns out the lights.

its at times like these that the rule book should be tossed out. who cares what the founding fathers said in Section 8, First Article of the Constitution? thousands are dead, more dying, homeless, starving and whatnot. send some help for crying out loud...

Whoa, easy there. The professor's not suggesting that we shouldn't try to save these people, he's saying that we shouldn't give them federal money after the fact.

The same way you would abandon a city from any other time period, except the last person to leave turns out the lights.

Not to be cold, but I just couldn't help but think of an abondoning city, as this: "Last one out has to turn out the lights, hehehehe!" Entire population scitters away, leaving one slow acting individual to turn out every light.

Whoa, easy there. The professor's not suggesting that we shouldn't try to save these people, he's saying that we shouldn't give them federal money after the fact.
He's also misreading the Constitution. It explicitly says "and provide...for the general welfare of the United States".

This professor can go fuck himself. I'm sorry, but that is absolutely heartless.

Well no-one suggesting that no aid be given: But, I think what he is trying to point out is that cities like NY, Boston and Chicago (and many, many others) are frequently hit by crippling snow storms and no-one expects people from the southern states to contribute to the cleanup. So why are hurricanes, which are after all part and parcel of where people these people choose to live, a national concern.

(And before you say that snow-storms don't kill anyone, that's only because northern cities are so well prepared to deal with them.)

-snip-


Thanks for the information. It will probably come in handy for me at some point. Unfortunately, I live in Canada and will have to a little bit of research to figure out who to contact, but you've given me some good ideas.

However, right now the Red Cross is asking for people to please only donate money. The reasons are that it is difficult and expensive to ship goods everywhere, and that it's better for them to approach corporations who can donate things on the scale that is needed.

For those of you living near the affected areas, though, get ahold of your local Red Cross and ask if you can donate some of these things, as I'm sure getting corporations to donate or discount tampons is going to take a while.

Well no-one suggesting that no aid be given: But, I think what he is trying to point out is that cities like NY, Boston and Chicago (and many, many others) are frequently hit by crippling snow storms and no-one expects people from the southern states to contribute to the cleanup. So why are hurricanes, which are after all part and parcel of where people these people choose to live, a national concern.

(And before you say that snow-storms don't kill anyone, that's only because northern cities are so well prepared to deal with them.)
Because hurricanes don't cause billions in damage.

Well no-one suggesting that no aid be given: But, I think what he is trying to point out is that cities like NY, Boston and Chicago (and many, many others) are frequently hit by crippling snow storms and no-one expects people from the southern states to contribute to the cleanup. So why are hurricanes, which are after all part and parcel of where people these people choose to live, a national concern.

(And before you say that snow-storms don't kill anyone, that's only because northern cities are so well prepared to deal with them.)


katrina was alittle more devistating than a frequent snowstorm wouldnt you say? new orleans is wipped out, not covered in snow. people lost everything they own, even family. it should be a national concern and they need more than the nations thoughts and prayers to survive and rebuild thier lives...

What I alway find funny about these moments in America is that all those people that hate the big bad government all of a sudden realsie that they need it's help.

Bush needs to order the military to bring in attack choppers to escort local relief helicopters, along with military cargo choppers and hell, even C17's if they can land 'em and take 'em off.

I find it downright evil that people would shoot at rescue choppers. These people need to be delt with by a good hearty dose of 30mm chaingun fire so that everyone else can get out while they still have their lives.

What I alway find funny about these moments in America is that all those people that hate the big bad government all of a sudden realsie that they need it's help.


what reasons do you usually hear from those people that say they hate the govt.?

a blizzard compares not at all to this disaster. that is one of the lamest things I've heard.

any person without heart disease can fix a blizzard all you need is a shovel.



some people....


of course the US govt. is and should be helping the victims, why so many chose not to heed the evac order in New Orleans is extracting a heavy toll now.

katrina was alittle more devistating than a frequent snowstorm wouldnt you say? new orleans is wipped out, not covered in snow. people lost everything they own, even family. it should be a national concern and they need more than the nations thoughts and prayers to survive and rebuild thier lives...

I am not suggesting that it wasn't. But there are a few things to consider here:

1. Part of the reason that snowstorms seem so minor is that northern cities are far more prepared for the really big freak one. Buildings and municipal services are designed to withstand them (though there is the occasional roof collapse), and counties and munipalities budget billions of dollars (as an aggregate in the entire north east) to prepare for them. For example, I can think of at least one storm in recent history in NYC that could have resulted in massive loss of life if the only preparedness was to hope that it never happened, then try and evacuate at the last moment if it does.

2. Most of the gulf coast has no building codes, and didn't really prepare for a storm of this intensity. The results of which are all, sadly, too plain now. You would think that common sense would have dictated that NO upgraded its levy system and insisted in construction standards better able to withstand storms of this intensity.

I am not saying that the people in the South East shouldn't recieve aid, after all it's really the fault of their local leaders and not anything that the vast majority of them had any say over. But I don't think anyone can fairly claim that no-one had any idea that this could happen. National Geographic has had several articles over the years describing just this very eventuality, yet it seems as if almost no effort was made to prepare for it. Case in point, look how California has adapted to earthquakes over the years by adapting the building codes, improving municipal services and planning. (Or Wellington NZ, for that matter).

I do feel bad for those who have lost everything, and I do think they should get federal aid, but, if they choose to rebuild there lives in the same area, they should be made to prepare for this kind of thing henceforth.

Um, let me see....

FEMA stands for Federal Emergency Management Agency. http://www.fema.gov/

Now, right now, the federal government is using National Guards troops to police the area and distribute food, water, ice, and other necessities -- the Army Corps of Engineers is in there working too... Pres. Bush has promised disaster aid to the gulf states... entertainers like Harry Connick, Jr. and Winton Marsalis have put together a charity event to be aired on NBC to raise private donations... the Red Cross and Salvation Army are sure to help as well.....

I think the US government is doing PLENTY to help Katrina's victims, and will continue to do so. As with the tsunami, the problem is there is an overwhelming job just trying to get people to safety, to give those who are safe what they need to survive, and disposing of the dead. Not to mention sharks, poisonous snakes and gators swimming up the streets, some of which are chest deep with contaminated flood water and sewage.

I am not sure what's been said today (I'll have to check) but on the 11PM news last night, the word was that it will take years to completely rebuild, but that the government is dedicated to rebuilding New Orleans. [Edit: This is current. Does not sound like they are abandoning the city. Also brings up the point that most of the people left in New Orleans did not have the means to leave. http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N01475103.htm]

For those heartlessly saying people were too stupid to leave -- do they actually believe hospital patients too stupid to leave? How about nursing home residents? People without cars, were they stupid? People below the poverty line, who couldn't afford a bus, train or plane ticket for each family member, how about them? How does one decide which family member to send to safety? Where even to go? I'm sure I am not the only one to see the traffic trying to get out of town. Do they actually think Greyhound, the airlines, and trains were empty, or full with people trying to leave, with more in the terminals who simply could not get a seat out?

It's all so very easy for people comfortably sitting on their asses in their homes or their dorms, surrounded by their computers, game systems, stereos and televisions to say of others' misfortunes 'they deserved it.'

I truly hope that none of us EVER find ourselves in such a situation only to be met with the callous disregard I've seen evident in this forum over the past few days. I am disgusted with the cheap shots from persons who apparently feel the only way to justify their superiority in the world is to insult the dead, people who have lost family and may have nothing but the clothes on their back, and the infirm. It's spineless and cowardly, and rather than making them look big and tough, it makes them look like cheap grade school bullies on the playground.

a blizzard compares not at all to this disaster. that is one of the lamest things I've heard.


New York city has at best seventy two hours of food available at hand. Back in the Nineties 36" fell in about 30 hours. Before food could be redelivered the snow had to be removed. I suppose you think that was done with shovels.

(And whats more all buildings over five stories in NY are now designed to withstand 150+ winds).

If anyone thinks for a moment New Orleans will be abandoned, your nuts.
There are people who did not leave and will only leave when they are dead.
Then there are the vast numbers of Americans that think of New Orleans and the gulf coast their second home and vacation there year after year, who will not let New Orleans die. It isn't going to happen. The entire city was not wiped out and there have been midwestern cities with as much flood damage.
They have been rebuilt. New Orleans was spared the worst of the wind damage and the floodwaters will dissipate. Now if Bush can be talked into restoring the money he cut several years ago to make New Orleans safe it will be fine.

2003, the flow of federal dollars toward SELA dropped to a trickle. The Corps never tried to hide the fact that the spending pressures of the war in Iraq, as well as homeland security -- coming at the same time as federal tax cuts -- was the reason for the strain. At least nine articles in the Times-Picayune from 2004 and 2005 specifically cite the cost of Iraq as a reason for the lack of hurricane- and flood-control dollars.

Newhouse News Service, in an article posted late Tuesday night at The Times-Picayune Web site, reported: "No one can say they didn't see it coming....Now in the wake of one of the worst storms ever, serious questions are being asked about the lack of preparation."

In early 2004, as the cost of the conflict in Iraq soared, President Bush proposed spending less than 20 percent of what the Corps said was needed for Lake Pontchartrain, according to a Feb. 16, 2004, article, in New Orleans CityBusiness.

On June 8, 2004, Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana; told the Times-Picayune: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us."


This country has huge forest fires, earthquakes, tornados, blizzards, and hurricanes. It is a fact of life and there is nowhere in this country that at least two of those don't have an effect on you. New Orleans has not been hit this hard before. Not even Camille did the damage Katrina did and the major damage happened after the storm passed when the levees broke. I know I was there for it. To suggest that families who have lived there for generations be removed from their homes is idiocy.
We need to be in there feeding people, getting the medical attention and then fighting the politics once the important things are taken care of.

Regards,

JMayo

I am not suggesting that it wasn't. But there are a few things to consider here:

1. Part of the reason that snowstorms seem so minor is that northern cities are far more prepared for the really big freak one. Buildings and municipal services are designed to withstand them (though there is the occasional roof collapse), and counties and munipalities budget billions of dollars (as an aggregate in the entire north east) to prepare for them. For example, I can think of at least one storm in recent history in NYC that could have resulted in massive loss of life if the only preparedness was to hope that it never happened, then try and evacuate at the last moment if it does.

2. Most of the gulf coast has no building codes, and didn't really prepare for a storm of this intensity. The results of which are all, sadly, too plain now. You would think that common sense would have dictated that NO upgraded its levy system and insisted in construction standards better able to withstand storms of this intensity.

I am not saying that the people in the South East shouldn't recieve aid, after all it's really the fault of their local leaders and not anything that the vast majority of them had any say over. But I don't think anyone can fairly claim that no-one had any idea that this could happen. National Geographic has had several articles over the years describing just this very eventuality, yet it seems as if almost no effort was made to prepare for it. Case in point, look how California has adapted to earthquakes over the years by adapting the building codes, improving municipal services and planning. (Or Wellington NZ, for that matter).

I do feel bad for those who have lost everything, and I do think they should get federal aid, but, if they choose to rebuild there lives in the same area, they should be made to prepare for this kind of thing henceforth.

good thinking and valid points. it still takes like you said, billions of dollars to prepare for something like this. that in itsself is hard to come by. money desicions have to be made also that bests fit thier needs. this hurricanes destruction was truley not forseeable until it was too late, nor did they know when soomething like this would happen. how could they? sometimes people are not able to make full preparations. this is a disaster that even fully prepared for would have been tragic. i know what you are saying, things could have been done that were not. still we can point hold our fingers down at them and say i told you so and turn our backs to them. they need a hand to pick them up.

He's also misreading the Constitution. It explicitly says "and provide...for the general welfare of the United States".

Well, I didn't say he was right. ;)

He's also misreading the Constitution. It explicitly says "and provide...for the general welfare of the United States".
Well, that's the preamble, and that sentence isn't really enforceable on its own, or there really wouldn't be any limit on the federal government's powers.

My guess is that they do it under the commerce "necessary and proper" clause. They can do a whole lot with that.

Interesting. I like that our govt. helps people during natural disasters, but it should encourage them to move to safer areas because this shit gets costly for us all. I don't mind my taxes going to help people. I mind my taxes going to killing people and providing corporate welfare though.

devil's advocate:

-corporate welfare saves jobs in that hey, if a company goes down, everyone working for said company is suddenly out of work. Also, investors lose money.(i agree that individual companies maybe shouldn't receive help, but when an entire industry is going down -- like the airlines recently -- it is okay)

-if by "killing people" you're talking about the iraq thing, well okay... but we also took down saddam (good for iraq in the long-term... he was a murderer of his own people), got them a free vote (great for Iraq -- political freedom), and are trying to help them begin as a free(r) country with a brand-new constitution guaranteeing expanded human rights, political rights, etc.

Also, we're not targeting civilians... we're targeting armed militants bent on the destruction of the US and/or the processes of getting Iraq started on a new, democrat government.

its at times like these that the rule book should be tossed out. who cares what the founding fathers said in Section 8, First Article of the Constitution? thousands are dead, more dying, homeless, starving and whatnot. send some help for crying out loud...
That is not what the founders intent was.

a blizzard compares not at all to this disaster. that is one of the lamest things I've heard.

any person without heart disease can fix a blizzard all you need is a shovel.



some people....


of course the US govt. is and should be helping the victims, why so many chose not to heed the evac order in New Orleans is extracting a heavy toll now.
Not true. Half of the city's population heeded to call to get out.

Well, that's the preamble, and that sentence isn't really enforceable on its own, or there really wouldn't be any limit on the federal government's powers.

My guess is that they do it under the commerce "necessary and proper" clause. They can do a whole lot with that.
Actually that is enforceable. Its how they justify federal welfare, social security, and Medicare, and other federal aid programs.

THIS POST IS FOOD FOR THOUGHT FOR ALL NS’ers, ESPECIALLY THOSE NOT LIVING IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

It was a dark, humid morning in Indonesia on December 26, 2004. For between 250,000 - 350,000 people, it would be their final sleep...ever. At around 7:58 AM (local time), a massive earthquake, 9.0 - 9.3 on the Richter scale shook everybody awake. The damage was severe, and there was loss of life...but people were told to cleanup and move on. Unfortunately for them, it was a terrible miscalculation. Just a few hours later, tsunami waves of up to 30m (100 ft) slammed the coast of Indonesia, and other nations. The devastation was terrible. Hundreds of thousands were dead and wounded. Children were now orphans, families were now homeless. Soon, food and water ran out. Disease, already prevalent, spread rapidly.

THE WORLD RESPONDED. Less than 18 hours after the Tsunami waves hit, American President George W. Bush made a live televised statement, pledging 50,000,000 USD in relief aid. American naval ships already in the area launched immediate SAR operations. In the days that followed, other nations pledged money. Every relief organization known to man rushed to help victims. The United States was ridiculed for pledging "ONLY 50 Million Dollars." So President Bush again went on T.V., this time promising 250 million dollars in relief aid. Meanwhile, Americans from all backgrounds, of all walks of life lined up to give blood. They collected food at sporting events, and every single store, school, and bathroom had a collection cup for donations to Tsunami relief. Though the exact amount of money raised to help Tsunami victims will never be accurately totaled, the amount the United States of America single-handedly donated was in surplus of $400,000,000 USD!!!!

Although this is not necessarily a “happy ending”, we now know that Indonesia is slowly recovering. The disease has been contained. There is again food and water. And people have begun reconstruction. At least it is better than nothing.

And now we fast-forward. On Friday, August 26, 2005, a slow moving Category 1 Hurricane, named Katrina, rolled into the Florida coast. The eye wall passed through Miami-Dade County (just south of Boca Raton, where I have a house). As the storm rolled over Florida, it dumped up to 18 inches of rain in some places. It killed 7 people, and left 1 million without electricity. Clean-up from that storm continues to this day. Sadly, however, it gets worse.

Hurricane Katrina, still a Category 1 storm, took an erratic turn as it entered the 90 degree waters of the Gulf of Mexico. It slowed down even more, and gathered steam. The National Hurricane Forecast Center began warning that it could make second landfall in Louisiana, Mississippi, or Alabama as a Category 3 or 4 storm.

The following is an excerpt from an article on CNN.com, dated 8/26/05. “HOLLYWOOD, Florida (CNN) -- Hurricane Katrina will make a "big shift" to the west on its way across the Gulf of Mexico and is expected to reach dangerous Category 4 intensity before making landfall Monday afternoon in Mississippi or Louisiana, the National Hurricane Center said Friday.”


From an article in USAToday.com, dated 8/28/05.
“Katrina, which cut across Florida last week, intensified into a colossal Category 5 over the warm water of the Gulf of Mexico, reaching top winds of 175 mph before weakening slightly as it neared the coast.”

The rest is history. Hurricane Katrina slammed into the Louisiana/Mississippi State line, just east of New Orleans, as a massive Category 4 storm. The U.S. and the world watched as the worst natural disaster in American history tore apart the southeastern United States. In its wake, Hurricane Katrina has left a swath of destruction worse than that of even Hurricane Andrew, formerly the U.S.A.’s most costly hurricane. Rescue efforts have not even ended yet, and the recovery efforts aren’t expected to begin for sometime in some areas. There was flooding up to 100 miles inland. Some towns and cities no longer exist. Others, such as New Orleans, are almost unsalvageable. At the earliest, New Orleans will be uninhabitable for at least 6 months. A toxic sludge now covers more than 80% of the city. Cholera, dysentery, and typhoid outbreaks have already been reported. People are dying in the streets (not including the shooting, etc. etc. etc.) [I will not link to the video here, but check out CNN.com for clips of dead bodies in the streets. The death toll from Hurricane Katrina will be more than that of September 11, 2001. And there is no end in sight.

THE WORLD IGNORES. It has been 3 days now since the live broadcasts of the utter destruction of the southeastern United States was aired live on televisions worldwide. It took the United States only 18 hours to offer at least 50 million dollars in aid. Now I beg the question: WHERE THE HELL IS WORLD AID? According to unconfirmed State Department sources, 10 or 12 nations have offered “general support” to the U.S. The United Nations is “standing at the ready to help.”

So again I ask, WHY THE HELL ARE ALL THESE UNGRATEFULS SITTING AROUND ON THEIR ASSES?! WHY DON’T THEY ACTUALY DO SOMETHING?! As I type this, 3 more people have died in the Southeastern United States. WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO HELP!!?? Do you not have any money, change you can spare? Do you not have blood that you can donate? Is there not one single bottle of water or can of food you could spare? Is there nothing at all you foreigners can do for us?

Or maybe it isn’t that at all…MAYBE IT IS A SIMPLE HUMAN FACT: The weaker will wait for the stronger to help, but the stronger will have to help themselves.

Whatever the case, I sincerely hope that the next natural disaster to strike another country, the United States will once again be on the front lines of relief and aid, and we will be smiling too. New Orleans and the Southeastern USA will recover, and will be better than ever. And we will continue to aid the world as we do now. But we will remember one thing, that we can’t count on any of you to help us out in time of need. And for that, I can honestly say that I am proud to be an American, because regardless of the situation, we help out. Who else can say that?

And now for the challenge: I DARE ANY SINGLE PERSON, NOT LIVING IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, TO RESPOND TO THIS AND DEFEND YOUR COUNTRY’S ACTIONS. IT IS TIME THE “WORLD” STAND TRIAL FOR THEIR IGNORANCE. GO AHEAD; I DARE YOU TO RESPOND TO THIS. I AM ANXIOUSLY AWAITING YOUR WEAK REPLY.

I don’t know how to support this, you’ve already said it all Archidamus. All I can think of is to post a link to “A Canadian’s Opinion.”

http://www.terrificmusic.com/files/america.html

It’s the first song in the whole list.

America has a history of helping the nations throughout the world, and most of the time we’re slandered because we “don’t give enough!” But when we’re hit we don’t even get three cents from Europe, our supposed “closet allies!” Or is Europe so ruined that they can’t even spare a few pallets of food and water amongst them!? You dislike America and our policies, but when you’re hit from a disaster, manmade or natural, you demand our assistance! When we’re hit you do nothing! Nothing!

Dreadfully sorry, but I wasn't aware that the US had requested aid, and more to the point, that it needed outside help. Famine victims need aid, not the US. We can pay to rebuild, they can't. That's the difference. We have enough money to pay for rebuilding. We can rebuild without help. There are other, far worse, problems at hand that need aid then us at the moment.

Damn straight Archidamus!

And now for the challenge: I DARE ANY SINGLE PERSON, NOT LIVING IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, TO RESPOND TO THIS AND DEFEND YOUR COUNTRY’S ACTIONS. IT IS TIME THE “WORLD” STAND TRIAL FOR THEIR IGNORANCE. GO AHEAD; I DARE YOU TO RESPOND TO THIS. I AM ANXIOUSLY AWAITING YOUR WEAK REPLY.

Mind if i jump in?

Simply put: 1: Indonesia/Sri Lanka/Thailand = poor.

USA= rich

2: Death toll :NO (so far) possibly a few thousand.
Tsumani: 300,000+ min.

3: US DIDN'T ASK FOR ANY AID.

SE Asia didn't have to ask for help.

SE Asia didn't have to ask for help.
Um, yes, yes they did. We didn't just show up with helicopters and decide to launch search and rescue operations.

SE Asia didn't have to ask for help.

...Yeah they did. Thats the only way the UN or NGOs can get into a country

1. Just because the nation may be "poor" (according to you), that doesn't mean they can't offer anything...even a single dollar would be a symbol. Oh, and just because they are poor...does that mean they don't have blood like we do?

2. A single death is a tragedy. Multiple deaths are a statistic.

3. Indonesia/Thailand/Sri Lanka didn't request aid before we volunteered it either.

We would have made the offer one way or another, the point is moot considering that we did help.

Um, yes, yes they did. We didn't just show up with helicopters and decide to launch search and rescue operations.


Actually, check your facts. We did.

1. Just because the nation may be "poor" (according to you), that doesn't mean they can't offer anything...even a single dollar would be a symbol. Oh, and just because they are poor...does that mean they don't have blood like we do?

2. A single death is a tragedy. Multiple deaths are a statistic.

3. Indonesia/Thailand/Sri Lanka didn't request aid before we volunteered it either.
Enough countries have offered their condolances/offers of support, including the UN and some countries with which our nations aren't exactly on best terms with. We don't take them up on their offers because we have enough support as is. We aren't poor, we don't need their help. Enough other people do.

...Yeah they did. Thats the only way the UN or NGOs can get into a country

The United States responded DAYS ahead of the U.N. We waited for no formal request. Also, you got anything else other than that?

We're actually getting aid offers from 20 countries. Thusfar, our government has not accepted the offers.

Actually, check your facts. We did.
Source it then. Show me one instance where we violated a country's airspace without their permission.

Enough countries have offered their condolances/offers of support, including the UN and some countries with which our nations aren't exactly on best terms with. We don't take them up on their offers because we have enough support as is. We aren't poor, we don't need their help. Enough other people do.


What are you talking about? No country has publically offered any assistance. The U.N. has repeated that it is standing "At the ready" Why don't they actually do something since they are sooo ready? And have you spoken with anyone in the area? Because I have...and we need all the help we can get.

SE Asia didn't have to ask for help.
Of course. When you see someone lying on the street bleeding through a chest wound you don't stop to ask if he needs help, you dial 911 immediately.

What's a mortal wound for those countries is just a prickle for the US; although painful it's hardly of any gravity. The US hasn't requested and doesn't need international help right now. They're quite capable of dealing with the immediate problem (or would if it weren't for the lack of organization that's showing through). I'm sure that the countries of the world will be more than happy to pitch in to help in the mid- and long-term consequences.

And last time I checked, there's nothing, NOTHING, more important to us than dealing with this disaster, except for MAYBE the War on Terror (but that's debatable).

Why can't Europe even offer a few thousand dollars between the continent for us? Are they really THAT "poor?" If so, than why don't they donate their LABOR or their BLOOD!?

Source it then. Show me one instance where we violated a country's airspace without their permission.

No you are calling Aid "a violation of airspace"?

Get the hell out of this country....

What are you talking about? No country has publically offered any assistance. The U.N. has repeated that it is standing "At the ready" Why don't they actually do something since they are sooo ready? And have you spoken with anyone in the area? Because I have...and we need all the help we can get.
The top United Nations emergency relief official has offered the United States the world body’s help in “any way possible” following the loss of life and large-scale destruction wrought by Hurricane Katrina along the country's Gulf Coast.


Mr. Egeland has been encouraging donors to contribute to non-governmental organizations (NGOs) active in helping the hurricane victims. The UN Staff Unions in New York and Geneva are working to raise money for hurricane survivors.

Done. Just ask.

The top United Nations emergency relief official has offered the United States the world body’s help in “any way possible” following the loss of life and large-scale destruction wrought by Hurricane Katrina along the country's Gulf Coast.


Mr. Egeland has been encouraging donors to contribute to non-governmental organizations (NGOs) active in helping the hurricane victims. The UN Staff Unions in New York and Geneva are working to raise money for hurricane survivors.

Done. Just ask.

What exactly is your source?

No you are calling Aid "a violation of airspace"?

Get the hell out of this country....
Why yes, yes I am. Moving flights over a country's airspace without their permission is an act of war. No, I won't "get the hell out of this country", and I suggest you calm down before you get warned for flaming.

What exactly is your source?
http://www.un.org/News/

No you are calling Aid "a violation of airspace"?

Get the hell out of this country....

Entering another country without their permission/invitation is called 'invading' - aid is irrelevant. (in fact- 'humanitarian' reasons have been used ass false precursors for invasions in the past.)

The UN is a conglomerate of countries, the US is one- of course its going to take longer for several hundred countries to respond than one individual!

Grow up and stop whinging.

Why yes, yes I am. Moving flights over a country's airspace without their permission is an act of war. No, I won't "get the hell out of this country", and I suggest you calm down before you get warned for flaming.

Actually, you also need to check up on the International Rules of the Air, or whatever the formal name is. As soon as I find the source, I will link you. Moving a flight into another country's airspace is not necessarily an act of war.

What are you talking about? No country has publically offered any assistance. The U.N. has repeated that it is standing "At the ready" Why don't they actually do something since they are sooo ready? And have you spoken with anyone in the area? Because I have...and we need all the help we can get.

Foreign governments line up to help after Katrina
Link to Reuters Article (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N01481437.htm)

WASHINGTON, Sept 1 (Reuters) - More than 20 countries, from allies Germany and Japan to prickly Venezuela and poor Honduras, have offered to help the United States cope with the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

Accustomed to being a rich donor rather than on the receiving end of charity, the United States initially seemed reticent about accepting foreign aid, but later said it would take up any offers. The hurricane devastated New Orleans and other parts of the U.S. Gulf Coast, killing hundreds and possibly thousands.

"Anything that can be of help to alleviate the tragic situation of the area affected by Hurricane Katrina will be accepted," said State Department spokesman Sean McCormack.

"America should be heartened by the fact that the world is reaching out to America at a time of need," he added.

Earlier, President George W. Bush said in a television interview that the United States could take care of itself.

"I'm not expecting much from foreign nations because we hadn't asked for it. I do expect a lot of sympathy and perhaps some will send cash dollars. But this country's going to rise up and take care of it," Bush told ABC's "Good Morning America."

McCormack said there had not been a change of position over accepting foreign aid and White House spokesman Scott McClellan also said the United States would take up offers of help.

The State Department said offers so far had come from Belgium, Canada, Russia, Japan, France, Germany, Britain, China, Australia, Jamaica, Honduras, Greece, Venezuela, the Organization of American States, NATO, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Greece, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Mexico, South Korea, Israel and the United Arab Emirates.

Assistance ranged from medical teams, boats, aircraft, tents, blankets, generators and cash donations.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon wrote to Bush offering medical teams that specialized in trauma and natural disasters and said they could be ready in 24 hours.

"During these difficult times, we, the people of Israel stand firmly by your side in a show of solidarity and friendship," said the letter, which was released by the Israeli Embassy in Washington.

Where the United States really needs help is getting cheap oil and the Bush administration will be approaching Arab nations and other oil producers over the coming days.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, a vocal critic of the United States, offered to send cheap fuel, humanitarian aid and relief workers to the disaster area.

The State Department did not comment on Venezuela's offer but several officials smiled at the gesture from Chavez, who on Wednesday called Bush a "cowboy" who failed to manage the disaster.

Cuban President Fidel Castro, a close Chavez ally, led a minute of silence in remembrance of the victims of Katrina in parliament on Thursday. The parliament then returned to normal business with a resolution attacking Bush over the Iraq war.

And now for the challenge: I DARE ANY SINGLE PERSON, NOT LIVING IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, TO RESPOND TO THIS AND DEFEND YOUR COUNTRY’S ACTIONS. IT IS TIME THE “WORLD” STAND TRIAL FOR THEIR IGNORANCE. GO AHEAD; I DARE YOU TO RESPOND TO THIS. I AM ANXIOUSLY AWAITING YOUR WEAK REPLY.

A) Too soon. Bring it up in a week's time. Seeing as you haven't even managed to get your own aid plans ready yet, and that Bush has to insist that it is 'on the way', I don't know what you're expecting from outside of the US.

B) You can quite easily aid yourselves. Bush has already called for $10.5 billion in aid from Congress, which they are almost certainly going to grant. Strangely, third world countries can't pull that amount of money out of nowhere when they have problems.

C) Notice how when aid is 'demanded', it is aimed at third-world countries who have little to start with and typically suffer from our own anti-free trade policies as much as their own internal struggles.

D) Most Americans would turn their noses up at foreigners trying to help the great United States of America. I've already seen them do it across the internet when people suggest the idea of foreign aid.

E) You hindered most of your alliances thanks to your President and his blatant disregard for international relations. Point the finger at him if you get nothing.

F) Your government hasn't asked for any aid from foreign countries. Until it does we will continue to assume that the most powerful, most wealthy country in the world which can afford to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on guns can look after itself.

Actually, you also need to check up on the International Rules of the Air, or whatever the formal name is. As soon as I find the source, I will link you. Moving a flight into another country's airspace is not necessarily an act of war.
Seeing as how a number of flights have gotten shot down for doing nothing more then straying into the wrong nation, I think history disagrees with you (a number of commercial ones).

Why yes, yes I am. Moving flights over a country's airspace without their permission is an act of war. No, I won't "get the hell out of this country", and I suggest you calm down before you get warned for flaming.
Nice change of the subject, wouldn't you agree? Stick to the subject rather than trying to pull a mod out of your pocket.

Nice change of the subject, wouldn't you agree? Stick to the subject rather than trying to pull a mod out of your pocket.
Change of subject?

Everyone always considers the US rich and I suppose person to person that is true but has anyone recently seen the size of the national debt
for a quick check on the facts go to http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/ for the approximate current debt but at 18:30 (630 pm) PST the debt read $7,943,032,508,290.36

as a nation overall that doesn't seem very rich to me (appx $26,739.77 per person worth of debt)

Nice change of the subject, wouldn't you agree? Stick to the subject rather than trying to pull a mod out of your pocket.
Actually i think CSW was trying to keep it on track by warning for the possibility of upcoming flames.

and I suggest you calm down before you get warned for flaming.

That.

The top United Nations emergency relief official has offered the United States the world body’s help in “any way possible” following the loss of life and large-scale destruction wrought by Hurricane Katrina along the country's Gulf Coast.

The International Red Cross is already organizing efforts around the world. Mexico is already contributing with experts in rescue operations.

That.
That isn't a change of subject, it's an unoffical warning that if you keep it up, you'll get warned for flaming.

A) Too soon. Bring it up in a week's time. Seeing as you haven't even managed to get your own aid plans ready yet, and that Bush has to insist that it is 'on the way', I don't know what you're expecting from outside of the US.

B) You can quite easily aid yourselves. Bush has already called for $10.5 billion in aid from Congress, which they are almost certainly going to grant. Strangely, third world countries can't pull that amount of money out of nowhere when they have problems.

C) Notice how when aid is 'demanded', it is aimed at third-world countries who have little to start with and typically suffer from our own anti-free trade policies as much as their own internal struggles.

D) Most Americans would turn their noses up at foreigners trying to help the great United States of America. I've already seen them do it across the internet when people suggest the idea of foreign aid.

E) You hindered most of your alliances thanks to your President and his blatant disregard for international relations. Point the finger at him if you get nothing.

F) Your government hasn't asked for any aid from foreign countries. Until it does we will continue to assume that the most powerful, most wealthy country in the world which can afford to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on guns can look after itself.

A.) As already stated...it took the United States 18 hours to come to the aid of Indonesia. Now what exactly is taking you so long?

B.) The damage from Hurricane Katrina is rapidly approaching 30 billion dollars. It occurs to me that 10.5 billion doesn't quite equal 30 billion....

C.) No comment. That is your own personal opinion and an attack on Capitalism, that has no place in this conversation.

D.) Obviously you haven't turned on the television. If you had, you would have seen mobs chanting "WE WANT HELP, WE WANT HELP" in New Orleans. I don't think they care where it comes from.

E.) Again, a very moot point. We aid others regardless. And again, a cheap attack on a man greater than you'll ever be.

Everyone always considers the US rich and I suppose person to person that is true but has anyone recently seen the size of the national debt
for a quick check on the facts go to http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/ for the approximate current debt but at 18:30 (630 pm) PST the debt read $7,943,032,508,290.36

as a nation overall that doesn't seem very rich to me (appx $26,739.77 per person worth of debt)

Ladri di anima really hit the nail on the head. The U.S., at this moment, is much like the family that buys all of its shiny new televisions, SUVs, and kids' soccer cleats on credit. Sure, that family may look well off, but behind the scenes, mum and dad are sweating bullets over the family accounts.

The International Red Cross is already organizing efforts around the world. Mexico is already contributing with experts in rescue operations.

There is a "magic window" of only 72 hours to find survivors...its a little late now. We need food, water, and yes, even money. Not man power. That will come later during rebuilding. Right now, we need to save lives and recover dead bodies.

Foreign governments line up to help after Katrina
Link to Reuters Article (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N01481437.htm)

WASHINGTON, Sept 1 (Reuters) - More than 20 countries, from allies Germany and Japan to prickly Venezuela and poor Honduras, have offered to help the United States cope with the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

Accustomed to being a rich donor rather than on the receiving end of charity, the United States initially seemed reticent about accepting foreign aid, but later said it would take up any offers. The hurricane devastated New Orleans and other parts of the U.S. Gulf Coast, killing hundreds and possibly thousands.

"Anything that can be of help to alleviate the tragic situation of the area affected by Hurricane Katrina will be accepted," said State Department spokesman Sean McCormack.

"America should be heartened by the fact that the world is reaching out to America at a time of need," he added.

Earlier, President George W. Bush said in a television interview that the United States could take care of itself.

"I'm not expecting much from foreign nations because we hadn't asked for it. I do expect a lot of sympathy and perhaps some will send cash dollars. But this country's going to rise up and take care of it," Bush told ABC's "Good Morning America."

McCormack said there had not been a change of position over accepting foreign aid and White House spokesman Scott McClellan also said the United States would take up offers of help.

The State Department said offers so far had come from Belgium, Canada, Russia, Japan, France, Germany, Britain, China, Australia, Jamaica, Honduras, Greece, Venezuela, the Organization of American States, NATO, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Greece, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Mexico, South Korea, Israel and the United Arab Emirates.

Assistance ranged from medical teams, boats, aircraft, tents, blankets, generators and cash donations.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon wrote to Bush offering medical teams that specialized in trauma and natural disasters and said they could be ready in 24 hours.

"During these difficult times, we, the people of Israel stand firmly by your side in a show of solidarity and friendship," said the letter, which was released by the Israeli Embassy in Washington.

Where the United States really needs help is getting cheap oil and the Bush administration will be approaching Arab nations and other oil producers over the coming days.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, a vocal critic of the United States, offered to send cheap fuel, humanitarian aid and relief workers to the disaster area.

The State Department did not comment on Venezuela's offer but several officials smiled at the gesture from Chavez, who on Wednesday called Bush a "cowboy" who failed to manage the disaster.

Cuban President Fidel Castro, a close Chavez ally, led a minute of silence in remembrance of the victims of Katrina in parliament on Thursday. The parliament then returned to normal business with a resolution attacking Bush over the Iraq war.


OP = pwned

The problem with expecting other countries to come to the aid of the US in this instance as I see it is this: it is impractical to expect other countries to send "blood that you can donate" or "one single bottle of water or can of food you could spare" simply due to logistics. Since these can be found in the US then it makes sense to locate them there. If physical aid is unnecessary what about fiancial aid?
In the tsunami disaster the countries involved could not afford the massive costs of rebuilding the infrastructure which was necessary to prevent catastrophic loss of life. In the case of the US it is perfectly capable of doing this. Therefore any monetary aid will only serve to offset the cost incurred by the US and not actually help to save lives. What you are proposing is that international aid function like a sort of global insurance policy against costs incurred from natural disasters.
That's just my take on the matter: feel free to disagree.

before everyone thinks that the author of this thread cares one iota about the devastation caused by Katrina, he posted on his regional forum this priceless quote:

Archidamus,Aug 29 2005, 10:30 PM
Yes, Connecticut is sending Red Cross and utility personnel to aide in relief. Just because you bastards can't save yourselves...dumbasses

There is a "magic window" of only 72 hours to find survivors...its a little late now. We need food, water, and yes, even money. Not man power. That will come later during rebuilding. Right now, we need to save lives and recover dead bodies.

It's been well over 72 hours and there are still people waiting for rescue, it would seem.

There is a "magic window" of only 72 hours to find survivors...its a little late now. We need food, water, and yes, even money. Not man power. That will come later during rebuilding. Right now, we need to save lives and recover dead bodies.
Do you know the logistics of what your asking dozens if not hundreds of countries to do? In such a short time? The US gave aid to the tsunami yes..... a pittance until some one told George that more might just be needed.

Ladri di anima really hit the nail on the head. The U.S., at this moment, is much like the family that buys all of its shiny new televisions, SUVs, and kids' soccer cleats on credit. Sure, that family may look well off, but behind the scenes, mum and dad are sweating bullets over the family accounts.

Of course, you fail to realize the futility of what you are saying. The debt is really nothing. You see, this world operates on a financial system based on credit and debit. Because we have such a large GNP...we are entitled to spend that much more. The "debt" the media claims we are in doesn't exist, it is just the borrowing option we are exercising. When your economy gets close to ours, then we can debate economics. Stop trying to change the subject.

Well, to be fair, the first news out of there was a sigh of relief that the city was intact and only a couple of hundred people were dead. And then a thousand die in Iraq. So I think you can forgive the world for switching off for a day. As for what's happening now, international assistance is always a sovereignty issue, and it is the US which has been slow to react.

Do you know the logistics of what your asking dozens if not hundreds of countries to do? In such a short time? The US gave aid to the tsunami yes..... a pittance until some one told George that more might just be needed.


We donated more than any of you combined...moron...

before everyone thinks that the author of this thread cares one iota about the devastation caused by Katrina, he posted on his regional forum this priceless quote:

Archidamus,Aug 29 2005, 10:30 PM

Yes, Connecticut is sending Red Cross and utility personnel to aide in relief. Just because you bastards can't save yourselves...dumbasses
LOL, owned! :D

as a nation overall that doesn't seem very rich to me (appx $26,739.77 per person worth of debt)
Unless you compare the debt to the GDP and the assets of the US. Then you'll see that it's a very manageable debt and certainly nothing to worry about.

What are you talking about? No country has publically offered any assistance. The U.N. has repeated that it is standing "At the ready"

One wonders what the hell you think it means to state you are standing "at the ready" if it doesn't mean "ready TO ASSIST"?

Why don't they actually do something since they are sooo ready?

Because they can't just come strolling into U.S. soveriegn national territory without being invited in by the U.S. government, and they're not being invited in.

Pull your head out.

LOL, owned! :D


Owned...please do explain?

We donated more than any of you combined...moron...
A: FLAME!

B:Quit whining and go help.

One wonders what the hell you think it means to state you are standing "at the ready" if it doesn't mean "ready TO ASSIST"?



Because they can't just come strolling into U.S. soveriegn national territory without being invited in by the U.S. government, and they're not being invited in.

Pull your head out.


I serve you with a quote from the Esteemed Rueters article on page 3 of this thread.

"Anything that can be of help to alleviate the tragic situation of the area affected by Hurricane Katrina will be accepted," said State Department spokesman Sean McCormack.

That is as much an invitation as any. How much more of an invitation would you like?

A: FLAME!

B:Quit whining and go help.


Why don't you enlighten us as to how much your nation donated then?

Owned...please do explain?
As in, roflmao, Nikovakia r teh pwn j00!

Of course, you fail to realize the futility of what you are saying. The debt is really nothing. You see, this world operates on a financial system based on credit and debit. Because we have such a large GNP...we are entitled to spend that much more. The "debt" the media claims we are in doesn't exist, it is just the borrowing option we are exercising. When your economy gets close to ours, then we can debate economics. Stop trying to change the subject.

I'm not really trying to change the subject. I'm also a native born U.S. citizen, from the most economically powerful state in this most economically powerful country. Your argument is dubious, but I wouldn't want to get off the subject.

I serve you with a quote from the Esteemed Rueters article on page 3 of this thread.



That is as much an invitation as any. How much more of an invitation would you like?

Context? Was he calling to all US citizens- or to the wider international community? Because theres a difference.

As in, roflmao, Nikovakia r teh pwn j00!

I am still not sure on how he...whatever...to me? How on earth does his post in any way "own" me?

There is a "magic window" of only 72 hours to find survivors...its a little late now. We need food, water, and yes, even money. Not man power. That will come later during rebuilding. Right now, we need to save lives and recover dead bodies.
72 hours that the US government squandered by not requesting international aid. You keep forgetting that's a necessary first step, a step that has been taken in every other case of international aid. The president was still insisting this morning that the US can go at it alone.

What's food, water, and money going to do by themselves? The water and food are not going to travel by themselves from the border and appear magically in the hands of the refugees. You can't eat or dring money. You could buy food and blankets, but if there are no food or blankets to buy or no means to get them where you need them that's not going to be any good.

Context? Was he calling to all US citizens- or to the wider international community? Because theres a difference.

State Department...that means Foreign Affairs. Study your Civics a bit more. That is a message to other nations.

If "moron" is flaming, than so is this:

Pull your head out.

Why don't you enlighten us as to how much your nation donated then?
I'd actually love to help- but as the Int' RC isn't accepting donations for it because they were told they weren't needed.... and my govt and recieved no offical call for aid, what do you expect me to do?

Fill the air with good thoughts! :D

Unless you compare the debt to the GDP and the assets of the US. Then you'll see that it's a very manageable debt and certainly nothing to worry about.

Total GDP for us 2004 for the US $11,667,515,000,000. Total national Debt INCREASE (interest) $613,000,000,000.00.
In otherwords, it would take more than half the entire amount taken by the government in income tax each year just to pay of the interest. (please correct me if I have my facts wrong, I'm 15 and like to think I'm wright all the time but I'm not sure)

It seems like it wouldn't be nearly as easy as you think it would be to pay of such a debt.

72 hours that the US government squandered by not requesting international aid. You keep forgetting that's a necessary first step, a step that has been taken in every other case of international aid. The president was still insisting this morning that the US can go at it alone.

What's food, water, and money going to do by themselves? The water and food are not going to travel by themselves from the border and appear magically in the hands of the refugees. You can't eat or dring money. You could buy food and blankets, but if there are no food or blankets to buy or no means to get them where you need them that's not going to be any good.


Again, take a look at post # 52. And to answer your second part, refugees are being moved to Houston, TX where there are supplies available, but more need to be stockpiled.

Total GDP for us 2004 for the US $11,667,515,000,000. Total national Debt INCREASE (interest) $613,000,000,000.00.
In otherwords, it would take more than half the entire amount taken by the government in income tax each year just to pay of the interest. (please correct me if I have my facts wrong, I'm 15 and like to think I'm wright all the time but I'm not sure)

It seems like it wouldn't be nearly as easy as you think it would be to pay of such a debt.
No, that's not interest. That's new borrowing.

Total GDP for us 2004 for the US $11,667,515,000,000. Total national Debt INCREASE (interest) $613,000,000,000.00.
In otherwords, it would take more than half the entire amount taken by the government in income tax each year just to pay of the interest. (please correct me if I have my facts wrong, I'm 15 and like to think I'm wright all the time but I'm not sure)

It seems like it wouldn't be nearly as easy as you think it would be to pay of such a debt.


You're wrong. Go back to economics grade 7 kid. First of all, before I begin, where did you calculate interest?

State Department...that means Foreign Affairs. Study your Civics a bit more. That is a message to other nations.

i'm not American- why the hell would i want to 'study my civics' about the US state dept?

So, you complain when no one helps, you complain when people help they're too slow, and you complain about the UN in general....right.

What do you want?

Here's Gur-di-pin's "thoughts" from the regional forum too:

Aug 31 2005, 05:11 PM
New Orleans... the reason people want to live below sealevel escapes me... I hope and pray they're alright nevertheless...


Aug 30 2005, 12:00 AM
Well, Flordians deserve that, especially the elder Citizens. They've got this damn entitlement mentality going on. I heard the last hurricanes they've been very disrespectful to those helping them for FREE, saying things like "It's about time you got over here!"

Damn people and their entitlement stupidity...

i'm not American- why the hell would i want to 'study my civics' about the US state dept?

So, you complain when no one helps, you complain when people help they're too slow, and you complain about the UN in general....right.

What do you want?

I only listen to INFORMED opinions. As you now admit you know nothing about how the U.S. Government functions, I shall continue to ignore you.

I am still not sure on how he...whatever...to me? How on earth does his post in any way "own" me?
You are new to online communities, aren't you? :D

i'm not American- why the hell would i want to 'study my civics' about the US state dept?

So, you complain when no one helps, you complain when people help they're too slow, and you complain about the UN in general....right.

What do you want?
I second this motion.
I would like the original poster to explain coherently what he would like the rest of the world to do who have proffered aid and been politely refused.

I serve you with a quote from the Esteemed Rueters article on page 3 of this thread.

You mean the article that also points out that TWENTY COUNTRIES are standing by already offering aid while you rant on about nobody willing to help?

I only listen to INFORMED opinions. As you now admit you know nothing about how the U.S. Government functions, I shall continue to ignore you.
Helpful debating hint number 13: Being arrogant only makes you look like a poor debater.


I can count at least three major departments (cabinet level) that are running the show because of this, Defense, Homeland Security, and the DHHS. I believe you can rest at ease that aid will be coming now that it has been requested, and the only thing to do otherwise is to wait and see. Complaining that it hasn't arrived fast enough when the request has only been very recently made is pure vitrol.

I second this motion.
I would like the original poster to explain coherently what he would like the rest of the world to do who have proffered aid and been politely refused.
THANK YOU!
:)

A.) As already stated...it took the United States 18 hours to come to the aid of Indonesia. Now what exactly is taking you so long?

As already stated, you can help yourselves, Indonesia couldn't. Whether your government actually chooses to do so is debatable, but you're completely capable of helping yourselves. 'Aid' is typically only given to people who need help, it's the definition of the word -- America doesn't. As you don't need help, you appear to be looking for gifts instead.
And as already stated by others, you are now receiving offers.

B.) The damage from Hurricane Katrina is rapidly approaching 30 billion dollars. It occurs to me that 10.5 billion doesn't quite equal 30 billion....

It's going to be hard to repair the total damage while it's still flooded, wouldn't you agree? That's aid money, not total reparations money. To stop people from starving and suchlike. I'm sure they'll appreciate it even if you don't.

C.) No comment. That is your own personal opinion and an attack on Capitalism, that has no place in this conversation.

I'm actually as much of a capitalist as you could possibly get (one of the reasons why you won't here me crying for 'aid' from America or anywhere else, for that matter), and it was an attack on 'unfree trade'.

D.) Obviously you haven't turned on the television. If you had, you would have seen mobs chanting "WE WANT HELP, WE WANT HELP" in New Orleans. I don't think they care where it comes from.

Yes. Very dramatic. Why doesn't your government go and help them? Maybe they'd appreciate that even more!

Mobs on cameras don't constitute an official aid request, though. If they did any country could stage such a thing for a few free pennies every time their budget didn't quite add up.

E.) Again, a very moot point. We aid others regardless. And again, a cheap attack on a man greater than you'll ever be.

It's only a moot point because you want it to be. That doesn't change the fact that it is perfectly relevant. You don't go around slapping people in the face, calling them names, and then expect them to give you money, do you? The fact that you are getting offers offers, even if your government turns them down, should be some kind of message that will likely be ignored.

And his 'greatness', as you said yourself requires 'no comment' as it is personal opinion.

*Pulls out bag of Marshmellows and Hot Dogs*
Before this thread totally devolves into flaming and whatnot... I would like to say Thanks to all who donated to charities for the Victims of Katrina as well as those individuals and countries that did express concern as well as sent in what ever aid they could.

I for one appreciate what ever help was sent. Thanks.

It seems like it wouldn't be nearly as easy as you think it would be to pay of such a debt.
I didn't say "pay the debt". I said "manage the debt". Who wants to pay off a debt? Ideally you'd use the money generated by your capital and debt to pay the interests and obtain a bigger profit than you could with your capital alone.

As long as the interests are not eating too much into those profits (and debt increase are not only interests, but can also be new debt at lower interest rates) then you're fine. The US is doing fine in that respect.

This argument should have been over by now. It has been shown that 20 countries, including some that don't particularly like us, have offered aid.

Archidamus, are you actually going to respond to the news article where 20 countries offered help, or just try to ignore it?

By the way, a lot of countries donated a bigger portion of their GDP than the US in aid after the Tsunami.

Who needs the world when we can pick ourselves up!
We are strong enough to do so and we should take great pride in it!

There wouldn't be so much trouble with saving lives, dropping off aid, and evac'ing people if the damn Ghetto goblins would stop shooting at the Police, NG, and at helos.

Again, take a look at post # 52. And to answer your second part, refugees are being moved to Houston, TX where there are supplies available, but more need to be stockpiled.
Yeah. And those statements where made when? Already the IRC is putting together aid from several countries which should start soon. That's pretty good. Why weren't they just waiting at the border ready to enter at a moments notice? Because you don't want to have them just idling there not even knowing if they're going to be given permission to enter or not.

There wouldn't be so much trouble with saving lives, dropping off aid, and evac'ing people if the damn Ghetto goblins would stop shooting at the Police, NG, and at helos.
Ghetto goblins?

Also in the G8 convention America pledged the least amount of money.

There wouldn't be so much trouble with saving lives, dropping off aid, and evac'ing people if the damn Ghetto goblins would stop shooting at the Police, NG, and at helos.
Yeah. What the heck is wrong with that people? Damn it, you may be forced to live like an animal temporarily, it's an emergency after all, but that doesn't mean you're going to behave like one.

And what's with that stupid excuse about being desperate for help? What's their logic? "Why doesn't anyone help me? I know! I'm going to shoot them, that'll make them come faster!"

Yeah. What the heck is wrong with that people? Damn it, you may be forced to live like an animal temporarily, it's an emergency after all, but that doesn't mean you're going to behave like one.

And what's with that stupid excuse about being desperate for help? What's their logic? "Why doesn't anyone help me? I know! I'm going to shoot them, that'll make them come faster!"
Exactly. In fact the only aid that I think the US could really make use of from foreign countries, that is people trained in coordinating disaster relief efforts, is the only aid I would object to my country sending at the moment solely due to the actions of these individuals.

Also in the G8 convention America pledged the least amount of money.

And your point is..

Who cares? I don't want the President giving away my tax dollars at a whim. Better atleast be a good reason for it.

Yeah. What the heck is wrong with that people? Damn it, you may be forced to live like an animal temporarily, it's an emergency after all, but that doesn't mean you're going to behave like one.

And what's with that stupid excuse about being desperate for help? What's their logic? "Why doesn't anyone help me? I know! I'm going to shoot them, that'll make them come faster!"

On the news everyone at the Super(doom)dome is whining about how long it takes to get releif and demanding help. So they don't get money from the goverment for a few days, deal with it. They were raised by the government and they think it's the government that has to provide for them, not themselves.

There are almost half a million animals still left in NO that chose not to leave, and they are the criminals. They ignored the calls of authorities to leave and then beg for help because of their stupidity. Tough luck guys, Darwin would be proud. The loot, murder, rape and pillage to get what they want. I saw we LET THEM STARVE.

Tough shit fellas but it's your own fault.

Tough shit fellas but it's your own fault.
Whoa. Well, at least now we know where you stand. :confused:

Whoa. Well, at least now we know where you stand. :confused:

How are you confused? They refuse calls from authorities to leave, they complain that they aren't getting the aid they "deserve" when they were told to leave, and because they're pissed off they shoot at helos bringing in survivors and aid to them...makes sense to me! :headbang:

Yep...I gotcha... :rolleyes:

These people do not have an ounce of personal responsibility in their bodies...all they do is scream "WE WANT HELP!".

After seeing the Primetime "Path of Katrina" I don't want NO to be rebuilt, I want it nuked and dirt dumped on it to raise it up and a new city to be built on the old one.

How are you confused? They refuse calls from authorities to leave, they complain that they aren't getting the aid they "deserve" when they were told to leave, and because they're pissed off they shoot at helos bringing in survivors and aid to them..

Yep...I gotcha... :rolleyes:
So there's some gun-nuts...LOL, who would have thought that the Afghan and Iraqi types who shoot at charity vehicles would have an analogue in the US? :p

But you can't paint them all with the same brush. A lot of people would have simply been too young or old to get very far.

So there's some gun-nuts...LOL, who would have thought that the Afghan and Iraqi types who shoot at charity vehicles would have an analogue in the US? :p

Think anarchists-don't give good gun-nuts like myself a bad name ;) The middle east has a long, well-established history of long distance target shooting. Iraqi's aren't exactly A-grade shooters either though :D

But you can't paint them all with the same brush. A lot of people would have simply been too young or old to get very far.

Okay, I will cede on this. Those who are old and the very young should be airlifted out. They're OBVIOUSLY not the criminals or looters.

A lot of those people were just too poor to leave. They didn't have cars or the money to pile their entire families onto a Greyhound bus bound for safety. To say that they all disobeyed the evacuation order just because they felt like or out of irresponsibility it is a gross misrepresentation of the situation.

A lot of those people were just too poor to leave. They didn't have cars or the money to pile their entire families onto a Greyhound bus bound for safety. To say that they all disobeyed the evacuation order just because they felt like or out of irresponsibility it is a gross misrepresentation of the situation.

Well, any intelligent person could understand that THEIR CITY IS BELOW SEA LEVEL AND IF THEY STAY THEY COULD DIE. IT WAS COMMUNICATED TO THEM MANY TIMES.

Even a day long walk could've taken them out of the city to relative safety. Any church or government structure in the state would give them a place to stay to weather the storm, guaranteed.

Sweden are get ready to send to USA. Office for Foreign Disaster Assistance have say thay can help whit sewage treatment , assemble house and medical equipment.

Sweden help people in need all over the world.

I hope dis thing going got people to understand we dont hate American even if we dont believe war.

Appreciate it, but this brings up a certain question.

What does it say to our own victims as they watch the news for information on their drowned city and find men and women speaking forgein languages and bearing a different flag on their clothes working at their house?

It's just so weird to think about. Not threatening, but odd. Like we do it all the time to other nations, but to have it done to us? Wow. It's quite different from what we're used to. Which is good I suppose. More help we can get the better.

Though are we accepting international aid?

1. Prehaps! I'm've was to make football often times. Play? Know. Best football results twice again.

2. Every age I have seen out as a baby. I think I has the solution: width times height.

3. As a wery old, I can fathom the scene to be with me. Looking always as I ever did. It was not came's. He borrowed mine.

...

Now that that's out of the way... Many nations are extending offers of relief to the victims of hurricane Katrina. Just because a country doesn't agree with a nation's government is no reason not to extend support to it when its citizens are in need.

That's very decent of Sweden, we appreciate their concern. I'm sure we would do the same if the situation were reversed.

well, human beings in need are human beings in need. i'm sure after everyone's rescued it'll be back to bashing bush and assigning blame, and i'll be first in line to do it, but for now my heart just goes out to the people involved.

This is good to hear. I hope that we accept this help, and anything else we can get. Our rescue workers and National Guard are really in over their heads right now.

Thank you, Sweden. :)
And thanks to the other 19 governments giving aid.

There is currently a thread for discussing aid to the US, by other nations. This will me merged into it.

1. Prehaps! I'm've was to make football often times. Play? Know. Best football results twice again.

2. Every age I have seen out as a baby. I think I has the solution: width times height.

3. As a wery old, I can fathom the scene to be with me. Looking always as I ever did. It was not came's. He borrowed mine.


Could you repeat that, over? Either your brain pathways temporarily scrambled or mine did, but I didn't understand that. The rest of your post made sense.

I really hope the offer's accepted..we need the help. Unfortunately, I heard Bush (according to a usually well-informed friend) declined aid. I'm hoping my friend was wrong.

Though are we accepting international aid?


yesterday appeal the withe house to the world for disaster relief.

I really hope the offer's accepted..we need the help. Unfortunately, I heard Bush (according to a usually well-informed friend) declined aid. I'm hoping my friend was wrong.

In swedish TV a man from the white house say thay want help.

That's very decent of Sweden, we appreciate their concern. I'm sure we would do the same if the situation were reversed.

I now USA do the same becuse when sweden was in famine in 1850-1900. Many swedish they fled to USA. You have help us.

And last time I checked, there's nothing, NOTHING, more important to us than dealing with this disaster, except for MAYBE the War on Terror (but that's debatable).

Why can't Europe even offer a few thousand dollars between the continent for us? Are they really THAT "poor?" If so, than why don't they donate their LABOR or their BLOOD!?

First off, did you ever consider the fact that those countries are STILL devastated by the tsunami/their own internal problems? Do you really think a country like Thailand who only has $30 billion to spend (and actually spends $31 billion and above) has ANYTHING monetary to contribute? Do you think that the tsunai effects are OVER? No. They're still rebuilding. Europe, on the other hand, has some problems of their own. Even more so, do you think labor and blood come here instantly? Do you think that just because the US got hit with a natural disaster that they're going to drop everything and come here?

Did we do that for them during the London and Madrid bombings? Did you see Americans running over to Europe to help? No.

As for the UN, it's budget is only $3 billion dollars. Compare that with the US's $1.7 trillion. It's because we can handle it on our own that we are. We don't need their help, they know it.


And Archi, remove from your signature (The Grenvali United). You are no longer a citizen of that region, and after this, I wish you never were.

EDIT: My message was just a bit...mistimed...

...
Though are we accepting international aid?

Yesterday Bush said "We aren't expecting aid from other countries because we haven't asked for it." [Translated quote from Swedish DN] Today, however, other representatives of the US said they were welcoming all the help they could get. However, the US has not said exactly what it is they need and whether they accept what we have to offer, so the aid isn't underway yet.

I haven't waded through this whole thread, so someone may have already mentioned this... but here is another way to help...

hurricanehousing.org

If you live in the southeast and have a spare bed/sofa/air mattress/pile of pillows on the floor etc. and can temporarily host one or more refugees, go there and post your listing.

So far almost 43,000 beds have been offered!

I haven't waded through this whole thread, so someone may have already mentioned this... but here is another way to help...

hurricanehousing.org

If you live in the southeast and have a spare bed/sofa/air mattress/pile of pillows on the floor etc. and can temporarily host one or more refugees, go there and post your listing.

So far almost 43,000 beds have been offered!
I saw several of these websites. I would have never realized that 43000 of us have already offered housing. I'm offering an empty rental house, as well as my (finished)basement. Hopefully these folks can find someone that will put them to good use.

One other thing. Start asking your employers to match your contributions to the Red Cross or other relief organizations. Mine made this announcement on Thursday and we've collected quite a bit of money.

This is just an observation, but I'm getting pretty tired of seeing the HSA and FEMA tell us what they're going to do. They would be a lot more effective if they started air-dropping supplies and soldiers into the stricken areas. The Bush administration is appearing to be incapable of managing a large disaster. One thing that we should be able to depend on the government to do well is to provide assistance after a disaster. This catastrophe is certainly a poor example of how prepared we are to handle large emergencies.

Hopefully, I'll open the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday and find that all the right things were done by our government, but it doesn't look like they're on the ball right now.

I saw several of these websites. I would have never realized that 43000 of us have already offered housing. I'm offering an empty rental house, as well as my (finished)basement. Hopefully these folks can find someone that will put them to good use.


My hat is off to you-this is an incredibly generous offer. Best wishes to you and your considerable efforts. :)

I now USA do the same becuse when sweden was in famine in 1850-1900. Many swedish they fled to USA. You have help us.


Thanks. I donated generously to the Tsunami relief and wouldnt hesitate for a moment to help Sweden, or any other friend in a time of need.

My hat is off to you-this is an incredibly generous offer. Best wishes to you and your considerable efforts. :)
All I can do is offer. If I get a taker, I'll have done something. I used http://katrinahomes.billhennessy.com/KatrinaReliefDiscussions/tabid/53/ctl/Register/Default.aspx because it was the first one I found.

You're wrong. Go back to economics grade 7 kid. First of all, before I begin, where did you calculate interest?

Ok here are the facts as I have broken them down over 20 minutes of research this evening.
The first number is the total acumulated debt as of 19:55:56 PST the second is the increase over the last 538 seconds (8 min 58 sec)

Borrowing by the General Fund * $ 7,932,431,726,128 $ 11,774,274
From all Gov. Trust Funds etc. $ 3,273,717,894,089 $ 4,370,568
From the Public † $ 4,658,713,832,039 $ 7,403,705
From the Fed. Reserve Banks $ 733,213,902,789 $ 646,976

*Gross National Debt †Debt Held by the Public

No matter how you stage it the situation aint pretty.


Edit: I forgot to do percetages

Gov. Trust Funds etc. 41.27%
Public 58.73%
Fed Reserve banks 9.24