NationStates Jolt Archive

In WWII, we helped demolish Germany. Ruined the nation, took away the people's will to fight. We firebombed Japanese cities, nuked a couple, and brought them to their knees. Then when we went in to help rebuild there weren't insurgencies to fight against.

Maybe our current use of precision guided weapons and our attempt to limit civilian casualties is actually coming back to bite us in the ass. Perhaps we should go back to the WWII model of warfare. Of course this would mean that we'd have to have a serious reason to fight. For example, the Iraq war wouldn't qualify because they never attacked or seriously threatened us, but Afghanistan would be subject to such a brutal war because their Al Quaeda proxy army did attack us.

What do you all think?

You do know that people's morale wasn't hurt much (if at all) by the '1000 bomber raids' right?

The Germans lost WW2 because they stopped using their ability to pound military targets. The moment the Blitz began Britain was going to survive.

The more civilians you hit, the more have reason to hate you. The more innocents die, the more truth is mixed into the lies and they become stronger than ever. Maybe, eventually the lies become truth.

You do know that people's morale wasn't hurt much (if at all) by the '1000 bomber raids' right?


If that's true - which I don't accept for a second - how comes people won't stop bitching about dresden and the rest of it.

I'd prefer advancing in technology and saving money than convincing people that we're not satan.

it's too inhumane, look at the SA80 (the current edition, not the crappy broken one) it has a rifled barrel, as does every weapon in the British Army, this means that when we aim at a target, we hit the target, when an American gun is fired it has no rifled barrel, it will hit, somewhere over there.

I'd prefer advancing in technology and saving money than convincing people that we're not satan.
Look at all the technological gains that came out of war. Radar was developed for war. Medical technology was developed to treat battlefield casualties. Rocket technology that lets us study the universe was devised by the Germans as part of their military arsenal. Nuclear power is a reality because of research into nuclear weapons.

We don't have to choose between progress and war, we can have both.

Yeah you should nuke Iran, that would show them.

Look at all the technological gains that came out of war. Radar was developed for war. Medical technology was developed to treat battlefield casualties. Rocket technology that lets us study the universe was devised by the Germans as part of their military arsenal. Nuclear power is a reality because of research into nuclear weapons.

We don't have to choose between progress and war, we can have both.
Even still, I like our economy. It's pretty strong compared to other nations, to say the least. Let's not ruin it?

If that's true - which I don't accept for a second - how comes people won't stop bitching about dresden and the rest of it.

Because it's still an act of terrorism, if nothing else the property damage to nonmilitary gear was immense. I'd bitch if Leicester was burned down, wouldn't stop me getting on with life and looking for a little revenge.

Eyewitness accounts of both the blitz and the bombing of cities in germany tend to have people far more optimistic than you would expect.

'More open than usual' anyone? :D

By comparison with other armies, America is fairly humanitarian. They're not exactly swimming in a bloodbath.

it's too inhumane, look at the SA80 (the current edition, not the crappy broken one) it has a rifled barrel, as does every weapon in the British Army, this means that when we aim at a target, we hit the target, when an American gun is fired it has no rifled barrel, it will hit, somewhere over there.

Dude, all guns have a rifled barrel, even American ones. The problem isn't that the M16 can't hit something, it's that it uses 5.56mm ammo that, although are more precise, won't put a man down like larger caliber ammo in one shot (something you need when the insurgant you shot is high on pain-killing drugs)

By comparison with other armies, America is fairly humanitarian. They're not exactly swimming in a bloodbath.
And that may be the problem. It makes people more willing to attack us. If we only wage war in defense, but utterly demolish anyone who attacks us, who's going to try to take us on? Only psychotics like Al Quaeda who need to be put down anyway.

why can't Americans simply NOT fight war? And can our British Gov stop being your Fag Boy, doing whatever you want.
Makes me sick.
And Afghanistan citizens are innocent, if you propose using inhumane and immoral forms of attack such as that in WWII, you'll be murdering innocents, like they did in Japan when they dropped the two A Bombs.

By the way, Al queda is a shadow network. It is a group of small cells all over the world created by groups of people holding a similar idea. It is not something tangible like the US marines or the British army.
You can't destroy an idea. Your president's "War on Terror" is a sham. I mean, where the hell is this land of terror? (that's a joke btw)

Only reason you guys decided to go into WWII was because you recieved a surprise attack by the japanese, then you join in the tail end of the war. Though any loss of human life is a sad thing indeed.
Also, what with the Twin towers being destroyed (another sad day indeed) your government decides to join in World affairs again.

Why can't you use your money to help countries that are in need rather than spending on ur military??

Go back into Isolation, it was better that way.


...*breathe* okay i'm done

it's too inhumane, look at the SA80 (the current edition, not the crappy broken one) it has a rifled barrel, as does every weapon in the British Army, this means that when we aim at a target, we hit the target, when an American gun is fired it has no rifled barrel, it will hit, somewhere over there.
Wow!
Where did you get this gem of knowledge? The Worlds Worst Propoganda Book 3?

Perhaps you're confusing the M1A2's smoothbore (no rifling) cannon with standard infantry rifles. Though how you could confuse a 120mm cannon for a 5.56mm rifle is beyond me.

I'm not trying to be insulting, but please, check facts before you post.

Dude, all guns have a rifled barrel, even American ones. The problem isn't that the M16 can't hit something, it's that it uses 5.56mm ammo that, although are more precise, won't put a man down like larger caliber ammo in one shot (something you need when the insurgant you shot is high on pain-killing drugs)

Holy crap! You mean that Jeremy Clarkson lied to me? O_o

No war is too humane, no war is a good war.

why can't Americans simply NOT fight war? And can our British Gov stop being your Fag Boy, doing whatever you want.
Makes me sick.
And Afghanistan citizens are innocent, if you propose using inhumane and immoral forms of attack such as that in WWII, you'll be murdering innocents, like they did in Japan when they dropped the two A Bombs.

By the way, Al queda is a shadow network. It is a group of small cells all over the world created by groups of people holding a similar idea. It is not something tangible like the US marines or the British army.
You can't destroy an idea. Your president's "War on Terror" is a sham. I mean, where the hell is this land of terror? (that's a joke btw)

Only reason you guys decided to go into WWII was because you recieved a surprise attack by the japanese, then you join in the tail end of the war. Though any loss of human life is a sad thing indeed.
Also, what with the Twin towers being destroyed (another sad day indeed) your government decides to join in World affairs again.

Why can't you use your money to help countries that are in need rather than spending on ur military??

Go back into Isolation, it was better that way.


...*breathe* okay i'm done
Al Quaeda had real training camps, military units, and logistical resources in Afghanistan. Those weren't shadows. They were being used as a proxy army to fight the Northern Alliance for years by the Taliban. It was a little like the Afghan foreign legion.

The land of terror is Saudi Arabia. That's where much of the funding and ideology that promote terrorism come from.

Hope I've answered your questions.

Why can't you use your money to help countries that are in need rather than spending on ur military??

Go back into Isolation, it was better that way.


...*breathe* okay i'm done
Your oversimplification of issues and the interdependance of the world aside...I've a better idea.
Lets just not spend our money on any other countries...period.
That way no-one can bitch about us meddling and our tax dollars don't get wasted on third-world hellholes that do nothing but complain about how evil we are and how they deserve more of our money.

only reason you guys decided to go into WWII was because you recieved a surprise attack by the japanese, then you join in the tail end of the war.

Tail end? That's odd, I remember there being about another 4 years to that war. Not to mention the manufacturing ability we brought to the table before and during the war. (cou*Lend Lease Act*gh)


Note: I don't actually think the world should rot.

Because it's still an act of terrorism, if nothing else the property damage to nonmilitary gear was immense. I'd bitch if Leicester was burned down, wouldn't stop me getting on with life and looking for a little revenge.

Eyewitness accounts of both the blitz and the bombing of cities in germany tend to have people far more optimistic than you would expect.

'More open than usual' anyone? :D

Nah, my ex's father was german and he lived there during the war. He told me it worked extremely well to disrupt civilian moral.

why can't Americans simply NOT fight war? And can our British Gov stop being your Fag Boy, doing whatever you want.
Makes me sick.
And Afghanistan citizens are innocent, if you propose using inhumane and immoral forms of attack such as that in WWII, you'll be murdering innocents, like they did in Japan when they dropped the two A Bombs.

By the way, Al queda is a shadow network. It is a group of small cells all over the world created by groups of people holding a similar idea. It is not something tangible like the US marines or the British army.
You can't destroy an idea. Your president's "War on Terror" is a sham. I mean, where the hell is this land of terror? (that's a joke btw)

Only reason you guys decided to go into WWII was because you recieved a surprise attack by the japanese, then you join in the tail end of the war. Though any loss of human life is a sad thing indeed.
Also, what with the Twin towers being destroyed (another sad day indeed) your government decides to join in World affairs again.

Why can't you use your money to help countries that are in need rather than spending on ur military??

Go back into Isolation, it was better that way.


...*breathe* okay i'm done

So much to reply to, but it is a waste of time. This forum has too many dumbasses like you, people that really need to learn some history and read the news from multiple sources (left, right, and everything in between).

(...)
What do you all think?
I honestly think that instead of considering new, different, or other ways how to wage war - how about the U.S. now learns how to deal with natural desasters and how to help their own people? That'd be a start!

In WWII, we helped demolish Germany. Ruined the nation, took away the people's will to fight. We firebombed Japanese cities, nuked a couple, and brought them to their knees. Then when we went in to help rebuild there weren't insurgencies to fight against.

You're ignoring a couple of facts here: firstly, the manpower demands for the Reich's armies were so intense that there were few able-bodied candidates left to fill the insurgent position, secondly, 'we' did fight against 'insurgents' in Germany, but it occcured contemporaneous to the period when 'we' were fighting those who were actually in uniform.

What I find amusing (amusing in a pathetic way) is that the same people who are so willing to accuse America of warmongering are the same ones that piss and moan about America not entering the World Wars until too late.

Make up your mind. Are we Warmongers or Isolationists?

Tools.

What I find amusing (amusing in a pathetic way) is that the same people who are so willing to accuse America of warmongering are the same ones that piss and moan about America not entering the World Wars until too late.

Make up your mind. Are we Warmongers or Isolationists?

Tools.

I prefer to think of us as Isomongers, or perhaps Warsolationists. Both are good.

I prefer to think of us as Isomongers, or perhaps Warsolationists. Both are good.

Possibly, but a wargasm is always much more fun than an isogasm.

And that may be the problem. It makes people more willing to attack us. If we only wage war in defense, but utterly demolish anyone who attacks us, who's going to try to take us on? Only psychotics like Al Quaeda who need to be put down anyway.
Funnily enough, the psychotics like al-Qaeda are the only people attacking you.

Funnily enough, the psychotics like al-Qaeda are the only people attacking you.
See, it works.

Look at all the technological gains that came out of war. Radar was developed for war. Medical technology was developed to treat battlefield casualties. Rocket technology that lets us study the universe was devised by the Germans as part of their military arsenal. Nuclear power is a reality because of research into nuclear weapons.

We don't have to choose between progress and war, we can have both.

Well, the two go together, until you have unified military hegemony.

China had the power to rule the world in the 1400's. But they didn't bother. As far as they were concerned, they ruled the world. The Europeans (including Europeans in America), who were still fighting each other to a standstill, kept advancing because the alternative was to be conquered by your neighboor. Then they divided China up like a dish of baked ziti.

Well, the two go together, until you have unified military hegemony.

China had the power to rule the world in the 1400's. But they didn't bother. As far as they were concerned, they ruled the world. The Europeans (including Europeans in America), who were still fighting each other to a standstill, kept advancing because the alternative was to be conquered by your neighboor. Then they divided China up like a dish of baked ziti.
Damn, now I'm hungry for baked ziti, or maybe Chinese food. Damn, now I'm hungry and confused.

China had the power to rule the world in the 1400's. But they didn't bother. As far as they were concerned, they ruled the world. The Europeans (including Europeans in America), who were still fighting each other to a standstill, kept advancing because the alternative was to be conquered by your neighboor. Then they divided China up like a dish of baked ziti.
Not true. European powers practiced economic imperialism in China, not actual imperialism, aside from a few coastal resorts here and there.

I think as far as the actual "war" went (one nation -vs- the other) we did superb, but as far as the insurgents are concerned, its not how were fighting them thats important. Its how we are fighting the radicals saying "get out now". The insurgents fight because they think they can drive us out, and the anti war movement is reinforcing that idea. What we NEED to do is get the anti-war movement to just shut its mouth for a month or two and see what happens. I mean, do they REALLY think we will pull out of Iraq if they call us oil hungry murderers enough? Ridiculus

~edit~ by the way, I'm not saying the anti-war movement is helping the insurgents ON PURPOSE, and I'm not accusing them of hating America. Just saying they need to look at the big picture for a minute.

it's too inhumane, look at the SA80 (the current edition, not the crappy broken one) it has a rifled barrel, as does every weapon in the British Army, this means that when we aim at a target, we hit the target, when an American gun is fired it has no rifled barrel, it will hit, somewhere over there.

if i'm not mistaken, the M9 9-mm Baretta pistol has a rifled barrel, as does the M-16 and its variants.

Al Quaeda had real training camps, military units, and logistical resources in Afghanistan. Those weren't shadows. They were being used as a proxy army to fight the Northern Alliance for years by the Taliban. It was a little like the Afghan foreign legion.

The land of terror is Saudi Arabia. That's where much of the funding and ideology that promote terrorism come from.

Hope I've answered your questions.

we need oil now, we hate terrorists, so let's just take over Saudi Arabia.

:p

The insurgents fight because they think they can drive us out, and the anti war movement is reinforcing that idea. What we NEED to do is get the anti-war movement to just shut its mouth for a month or two and see what happens. I mean, do they REALLY think we will pull out of Iraq if they call us oil hungry murderers enough?
Why shouldn't the government just ban anti-war protest in this case? Worked in WW1.

Why shouldn't the government just ban anti-war protest in this case? Worked in WW1.

or arrest them for sedition. hehe

Why shouldn't the government just ban anti-war protest in this case? Worked in WW1.
I never said ban free speech. The only American way to do it is to talk some sense into them. I'm a strict constitutionalist. And the costitution says I can tell people they are inadvertently getting our soldiers killed. Show me a war protester who REALLY believes the government is gonna pull out of Iraq, and I'll show you a naive person who has there eyes closed.

In WWII, we helped demolish Germany. Ruined the nation, took away the people's will to fight. We firebombed Japanese cities, nuked a couple, and brought them to their knees. Then when we went in to help rebuild there weren't insurgencies to fight against.

Maybe our current use of precision guided weapons and our attempt to limit civilian casualties is actually coming back to bite us in the ass. Perhaps we should go back to the WWII model of warfare. Of course this would mean that we'd have to have a serious reason to fight. For example, the Iraq war wouldn't qualify because they never attacked or seriously threatened us, but Afghanistan would be subject to such a brutal war because their Al Quaeda proxy army did attack us.

What do you all think?

The difference may lie in the fact that US hasn't declared war to any nation since Korea...

we need oil now, we hate terrorists, so let's just take over Saudi Arabia.

:p
I'd love to. Put the Wahabbi terrorist clerics on public trial like Saddam will be. Then send them to guantanamo bay and "accidentally" pee on their koran while they're trying to pray. When people say we've desecrated a holy book we can point to transcripts of the trials and state honestly that having wahabbi terrorist scum touch the book has already desecrated it.

If a Spartan refused to fight in a war, even if he was certain to die, it was required by law half his beard be shaved, then it was legal to hit, spit on and beat both him and his children. When a handful of Spartans were sent to fight the Persians in order to protect the Greeks, they killed thousands of Persians, but were all killed after a Greek betrayed them, selling a secret back route to the Persian forces.

America has its own Greek Problem in the form of its left wing and their European Allies. In theory, being “Left” should be permitted, but this “Left Movement” so thoroughly entrenched, was planted by Communists and only have one goal in mind, destroying America. They would align themselves to any devil to achieve that goal. They would support Hitler if he was alive today. They have no trouble buddying up with the “Hitlers” in the middle east today.

The solution to this problem, is to get in these people’s faces and put them on the line. If they accuse us of being worse than Saddam, lets test their theory. He dealt with political opponents by killing them.

I'd love to. Put the Wahabbi terrorist clerics on public trial like Saddam will be. Then send them to guantanamo bay and "accidentally" pee on their koran while they're trying to pray. When people say we've desecrated a holy book we can point to transcripts of the trials and state honestly that having wahabbi terrorist scum touch the book has already desecrated it.


In New York, there was a State Sponsored art display which consisted of exhibits, degrading American and Christian Religious paraphernalia. The Flag, with a Bible, in a box with a rotting animal head being devoured by maggots. Virgin Mary’s made from elephant dung and so on and so forth.

No one rioted murdering hundreds of innocent people because of it. A Rumor, a false rumor, about “The Koran” supposedly being desecrated, resulted in just such riots from Moslems. The left wing, that supported the Anti-Christian and Anti-America displays, also supported the Moslems in their “Right” to Riot.

These Hypocrites need to be called on this, they need to be victims, so they can understand the situation personally.

If a Spartan refused to fight in a war, even if he was certain to die, it was required by law half his beard be shaved, then it was legal to hit, spit on and beat both him and his children. When a handful of Spartans were sent to fight the Persians in order to protect the Greeks, they killed thousands of Persians, but were all killed after a Greek betrayed them, selling a secret back route to the Persian forces.

America has its own Greek Problem in the form of its left wing and their European Allies. In theory, being “Left” should be permitted, but this “Left Movement” so thoroughly entrenched, was planted by Communists and only have one goal in mind, destroying America. They would align themselves to any devil to achieve that goal. They would support Hitler if he was alive today. They have no trouble buddying up with the “Hitlers” in the middle east today.

The solution to this problem, is to get in these people’s faces and put them on the line. If they accuse us of being worse than Saddam, lets test their theory. He dealt with political opponents by killing them.
planted by commies? hitler loving?
that makes no sense. you are allying everything you hate together.

In New York, there was a State Sponsored art display which consisted of exhibits, degrading American and Christian Religious paraphernalia. The Flag, with a Bible, in a box with a rotting animal head being devoured by maggots. Virgin Mary’s made from elephant dung and so on and so forth.

No one rioted murdering hundreds of innocent people because of it. A Rumor, a false rumor, about “The Koran” supposedly being desecrated, resulted in just such riots from Moslems. The left wing, that supported the Anti-Christian and Anti-America displays, also supported the Moslems in their “Right” to Riot.

These Hypocrites need to be called on this, they need to be victims, so they can understand the situation personally.
I'm a liberal and I don't support their right to riot or become violent.

planted by commies? hitler loving?
that makes no sense. you are allying everything you hate together.


Well they are all on the same side. Nazis allied to them and put their original leaders in charge, Communists armed them for free and today it seems to be mostly the extreme peaceniks that support them.

Now here is what I see, I see people who are living proof that McCarthy was right, taking whatever side is opposed to American interests. When that was Communism, they took it, when it is Islamism they side with that.

I am uncertain about our friend the Drunk Commies here. I see to agree with him about a great deal, but he insists he is a commie. He is the only commie I know who is not supportive of the Communist Baathists and the Shiites. Why so many communists seem to be supportive of the Theocrats over there can only be explained with an “Enemy of my Enemy” double negative argument.

The very concept of Liberalism has been so badly perverted by Chomskites and Garofalos.

I'm a liberal and I don't support their right to riot or become violent.


I have no idea what I would define you as, but if you are a good shot with an Ak-47 I want you to be on my side when the chips are down. There is a bottle of Stoli in it for you.

The difference may lie in the fact that US hasn't declared war to any nation since Korea...

Actually, we didn't declare it their, either. It was a UN Police Action. The last countries we declared war on were Japan, Germany, and Italy.