NationStates Jolt Archive

I decided that I might want to learn the Chinese language, so I was wondering if anyone knew of any good Books, or courses I can buy. Also, Links would be usefull.

Books and Courses must not cost too much. I don't exactly have infinite money. They also must be purchasable online.

Any help would be appreciated.

:mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :sniper: :sniper:

The Great Union Of Foxstenikopolis

Mandarin or Cantonese?

Which dialect of Chinese do you plan on learning? Mandarin, Cantonese, etc.

Before you get anything, I would recommend picking up the book, "How to Learn any Language" by Barry M. Farber. This book gives you a different look at taking classes on languages, and touches on how they are flawed. As per the book, it says to pick up a book on grammar in the language you want to learn, and an English-to _____, and vice versa. I hope that's enough just to start. :)

Mandarin or Cantonese?

Mandarin.

You can ask me! And I won't charge you a thing. :)

You can ask me! And I won't charge you a thing. :)

I'd appreciate that!

I'd probably need sound files though, with all those different tones.....

I've taken two years of Mandarin, and it's pretty fun :)
My class uses "Practical Chinese Reader", and it has various things, like a textbook, an exercise book, etc.

I saw earlier that someone started a thread for teaching Spanish.

They need one for Mandarin.

Pimsleur has both Cantonese and Mandarin programs available as a series of mp3's, you learn spoken Chinese by hearing and speaking it. I have them on my mp3 player, and my Chinese co-workers are amazed at me.

In fact, the Mandarin course has been sitting in my office on CD-ROM for months and only an hour ago one of my co-workers took it home with him otherwise I could send you a sample lesson to check it out. I have it on my computer at home though.

I'd appreciate that!

I'd probably need sound files though, with all those different tones.....

Before you do that you need to specify whether you're learning Mainland Mandarin or Taiwanese Mandarin. Because the methods of teaching is slightly different, with Mainland Mandarin far easier to learn than the Taiwanese version.

Will you be learning writing too? I suggest that if you're capable, learn both the Traditional and Simplified. Traditional to appreciate the beauty of Chinese writing (not to mention it makes pronunciation regain some sense), and Simplified for everyday communication with the Chinese people.

do you want to speak it or read it? yes they are 2 almost completely different things

if you want to speak it, mandarin is the most useful. id start by borrowing a course on tape from your local library. if they dont have one they can get you one through interlibrary loan. chinese is a fun language to learn to speak. very different from english but no declentions or tense endings to worry about.

if you want to read it, do you want to read modern or classical? are you interested in learning to write it also (as in developing a passable handwriting style)

if you just want to read it and only write it in the service of remembering words, i bet there is a cheap (maybe even free) software available online. the classics are best studied in a formal classroom manner. very worth doing but it takes a long time and its pretty hard to remember so many different characters.

if you really want to be able to write it, you need to find a real life teacher.

Before you do that you need to specify whether you're learning Mainland Mandarin or Taiwanese Mandarin. Because the methods of teaching is slightly different, with Mainland Mandarin far easier to learn than the Taiwanese version.

Will you be learning writing too? I suggest that if you're capable, learn both the Traditional and Simplified. Traditional to appreciate the beauty of Chinese writing (not to mention it makes pronunciation regain some sense), and Simplified for everyday communication with the Chinese people.

Depends. I'll learn both If I can. How many letters are there?

Don't worry about fonts either. I can read Chinese on my computer, but not type it.

I hope to both write, and speak it, btw.

Depends. I'll learn both If I can. How many letters are there?

Don't worry about fonts either. I can read Chinese on my computer, but not type it.

As in English, romanised Mainland Mandarin has consonants and vowels and composite vowels (diphthongs?). (I won't bother with Taiwanese Mandarin because their pronunciation keys aren't Romance alphabets, but weird signs.)

Consonents: b, p, m, f, d, t, n, l, g, k, h, j, q, x, zh, ch, sh, r, z, c, s

Vowels: i, u, (y)u,

Composite vowels: ah, oh, eh, ai, ei, au, ou, an, en, ang, eng, er.

With these sounds all Chinese words come.

Depends. I'll learn both If I can. How many letters are there?

Don't worry about fonts either. I can read Chinese on my computer, but not type it.

I hope to both write, and speak it, btw.
Asking "how many characters are there in Chinese?" is like asking "how many words are there in English?". There any a few thousand in common usage, and many thousands more that very few people know. While characters are often re-used in Chinese (either in the form of a compound word or in radical form... meaning that it gets slightly altered and added to other characters to modify them... kinda hard to explain without visual aids here) there are still a bunch.

Asking "how many characters are there in Chinese?" is like asking "how many words are there in English?". There any a few thousand in common usage, and many thousands more that very few people know.

OMG Really? I heard that before, but I didn't know it was true. I thought it was an exaggeration. :(

I guess I'll learn Simplified then. :(

Also, in China, there are tons of regions, so even if you learn Mandarin, you won't be able to understand most Chinese people.

Mandarin is my first language, but I cannot understand most Chinese people, and they can't understand me, because my Mandarin is a different dialect. Each Region has it's own dialect.

Being as many Japanese charaters stem from Chinese (at least for one of their alphabets) you might find this link useful:

www.japanese-kanji.com

It has 180 characters, as well as their (rough) English (or French!) translations. This doesn't, of course, help you with speaking any of the characters, but might help you get started with memorizing a few of them.

Good luck and Cheers!

I'm proficient in Mandarin and Cantonese as well. Here's something very important to know:

Chu Faan: Choo Fun (Pronounciation)
Translation: Eat Rice ;)

Heu Swui: Huh Soowee
Translation: Drink Water

Wa shu Hao: I am fine

Ni Hao Ma: Hello how are you?

Shie shie: Thank You (<<<<<<<<<Really Important, I speak from experience)

What the pronounciations, though. For example, Shu means mouse and tree.

So ya, that's my two cents. When the world economy favours China, I'll be rich teaching chinese!!!! Muhahahaha! *goes crazy*

And Mandarin has what? 70,000+ Characters? It's not an easy language.

Ok, thanx guys! :)

I have to sleep now, and I'll be back tommorrow! :)

And Mandarin has what? 70,000+ Characters? It's not an easy language.

25,000 are recommended to read a whole newspaper article. It's not hard. You just need to remember them like pictures. It's easier if you grew up with it.

25,000 are recommended to read a whole newspaper article. It's not hard. You just need to remember them like pictures. It's easier if you grew up with it.
actually you only need to know about 1,000 characters to comprehend the newspaper.

Also, in China, there are tons of regions, so even if you learn Mandarin, you won't be able to understand most Chinese people.

Mandarin is my first language, but I cannot understand most Chinese people, and they can't understand me, because my Mandarin is a different dialect. Each Region has it's own dialect.
If you know Mandarin you should be able to converse with just about anyone in China, since nearly everyone in China speaks Mandarin "according to the Beijing dialect" as decreed by Chiang Kai Shek.

actually you only need to know about 1,000 characters to comprehend the newspaper.

Yeah, about 1,000.

My chinese textbook has a lame chapter about that. :).

I had to learn it by heart. :(

And Mandarin has what? 70,000+ Characters? It's not an easy language.
Nobody knows 70,000 characters. Most fully functional Chinese people only need a couple thousand at the most. The vast majority of characters are either obsolete or obscure placenames that only historians need to care about.

I'm proficient in Mandarin and Cantonese as well. Here's something very important to know:

Chu Faan: Choo Fun (Pronounciation)
Translation: Eat Rice ;)

Heu Swui: Huh Soowee
Translation: Drink Water

Wa shu Hao: I am fine

Ni Hao Ma: Hello how are you?

Shie shie: Thank You (<<<<<<<<<Really Important, I speak from experience)

What the pronounciations, though. For example, Shu means mouse and tree.

So ya, that's my two cents. When the world economy favours China, I'll be rich teaching chinese!!!! Muhahahaha! *goes crazy*
Are these Cantonese, or are they Mandarin with a weird way of romanizing it? It's definitely not Mandarin Pinyin, but it's close enough that I'm not sure if it's just a weird system or if it's Cantonese (some words are similar, but not most, for other peoples' info, I'm sure YOU already know)

In Mandarin Pinyin, they are:
Chi fan (literally "eat rice", but by extension "eat food" or simply "eat")

He Shui (drink water)

Wo shi hao (I am well... although I find that "wo hen hao" is a more common usage)

Ni hao ma? (How are you? Unlike in English, when a person says this in Chinese they actually expect a response. Walking down the streets in America, people say "hi, how are you?" "how are you?" and then go their separate ways. In China, if someone says "ni hao ma?" they expect you to actually explain to them how you're doing.)

Xie xie (thank you. I fully agree about its importance... politeness is very important in Chinese culture. In pinyin, "x" is pronounced pretty much like "sh", but with subtle differences that I can't explain online. So "Shie shie" is an accurate way of describing it, but it's not pinyin.)

Bu keqi (you're welcome. Literally "don't be so polite" or "no need to be so polite". I added this because, like xie xie, bu keqi is very important. Failure to respond with it in response to someone else's thanks is presumptuous, because you're saying that you are worthy of their thanks and essentially that they are in your debt. Not good if you just handed them the rice.)

Also, just a note to go along with the pinyin and stuff floating around: it's not pronounced like it is in English. Some letters (and combinations) make completely unexpected sounds. Even the ones that are essentially the same have slightly different pronunciations, because, to put it plainly, the Chinese don't talk like we do. You need to learn from a teacher, because otherwise you'll just teach yourself bad habits. Either that or you can learn from a book, and then watch Chinese movies to get a hang of pronunciation, but this latter method is not recommended.

Nobody knows 70,000 characters. Most fully functional Chinese people only need a couple thousand at the most. The vast majority of characters are either obsolete or obscure placenames that only historians need to care about.
Exactly. Just like there are many English words that hardly anybody knows, same goes with Chinese. Then there are specialized vocabularies, like scientific, mathematical, historical, etc. And then there are the old-fashioned characters (think middle-English) that some people know, but nobody uses except in poetry (old characters are big in Chinese poetry). Chinese may have 70,000 characters, but it doesn't mean you need to know all of them. English probably has around 70,000 words, but the average college-educated adult native English speaker knows maybe 5,000.

And then there are the old-fashioned characters (think middle-English) that some people know, but nobody uses except in poetry (old characters are big in Chinese poetry).
speaking of old poems with annoying characters...

石室詩士施氏, 嗜獅, 誓食十獅。
氏時時適市視獅。
十時, 適十獅適市。
是時, 適施氏適市。
氏視是十獅, 恃矢勢, 使是十獅逝世。
氏拾是十獅屍, 適石室。
石室濕, 氏使侍拭石室。
石室拭, 氏始試食是十獅。
食時, 始識是十獅, 實十石獅屍。
試釋是事。

every character in the poem is pronounced "shi." There's tonal variation but still completely incomprehensible when spoken. Perfectly comprehensible but odd when read. The moral of the poem (which incidentally is about some stone tigers) is, 1.) classical Chinese is messed up and 2.) in Chinese, pronunciation has nothing to do with the written word, which is sometimes mind boggling, especially if the reader is not familiar with character based languages.

speaking of old poems with annoying characters...

石室詩士施氏, 嗜獅, 誓食十獅。
氏時時適市視獅。
十時, 適十獅適市。
是時, 適施氏適市。
氏視是十獅, 恃矢勢, 使是十獅逝世。
氏拾是十獅屍, 適石室。
石室濕, 氏使侍拭石室。
石室拭, 氏始試食是十獅。
食時, 始識是十獅, 實十石獅屍。
試釋是事。

every character in the poem is pronounced "shi." There's tonal variation but still completely incomprehensible when spoken. Perfectly comprehensible but odd when read. The moral of the poem (which incidentally is about some stone tigers) is, 1.) classical Chinese is messed up and 2.) in Chinese, pronunciation has nothing to do with the written word, which is sometimes mind boggling, especially if the reader is not familiar with character based languages.

This computer can't read the characters (my other one can) so all I see is ???,??? etc.... but I know that poem :) it's about Master Shi who wants to kill 10 lions and eat them or something, and then he does but couldn't tell if they were dead lions or stone lions. I forget how it goes exactly, but it was hilarious. There's another one where everything is "ji", but of course with a few tonal variations.

speaking of old poems with annoying characters...

石室詩士施氏, 嗜獅, 誓食十獅。
氏時時適市視獅。
十時, 適十獅適市。
是時, 適施氏適市。
氏視是十獅, 恃矢勢, 使是十獅逝世。
氏拾是十獅屍, 適石室。
石室濕, 氏使侍拭石室。
石室拭, 氏始試食是十獅。
食時, 始識是十獅, 實十石獅屍。
試釋是事。

every character in the poem is pronounced "shi." There's tonal variation but still completely incomprehensible when spoken. Perfectly comprehensible but odd when read. The moral of the poem (which incidentally is about some stone tigers) is, 1.) classical Chinese is messed up and 2.) in Chinese, pronunciation has nothing to do with the written word, which is sometimes mind boggling, especially if the reader is not familiar with character based languages.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

TONGUE TWISTER!!!

Are these Cantonese, or are they Mandarin with a weird way of romanizing it? It's definitely not Mandarin Pinyin, but it's ...

I'm not a good speller, so argh....

....1,000? Really? Damn, I was taught 25k...argh...

oooh! i want to learn chinese! of course, i also want to learn japanese, punjabi, thai, vietnemese, russian, piraha(did i spell that right?), greenlandic...

right now i'm learning basic japanese with a japanese dictionary and a book on japanese grammar, and it's the best method for language learning besides acutally speaking it with people that i've found.

oooh! i want to learn chinese! of course, i also want to learn japanese, punjabi, thai, vietnemese, russian, piraha(did i spell that right?), greenlandic...

W0W! That's a lot! I want to learn Mandarin (Chinese), Polish, Hindu, Arabic, Japanese, and some Native American languag like Nahuatl, or Quechua! (Screw Spanish! :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :sniper: :sniper: )

That's 7 languages versus your 9! (counting English!)

:D

Xie xie (thank you. I fully agree about its importance... politeness is very important in Chinese cutlure. In pinyin, "x" is pronounced pretty much like "sh", but with subtle differences that I can't explain online. So "Shie shie" is an accurate way of describing it, but it's not pinyin.)

I know what you are saying. I saw a show about China once, and it talked about the Warriors of Xian, so I think I know how to pronounce it.

Kinda hard, but I like it. :)

Also, the Chinese "Q" is pronounced halfway between "Ts" and "Ch", right?

today a new japanese exchange student (i think it is called this way, but it doesn't matter, she's from japan, and i'm not) was at our school (first day of new year :( ) and i asked her for some words (she speaks some english) but i'm always afraid that she will let me say "i am a turkey" or something. i would really like to learn Japanese or Chinese, but it is soooo difficult and we already have to learn 4 laguages at school (and i don't even follow a 'languages' course :( )

W0W! That's a lot! I want to learn Mandarin (Chinese), Polish, Hindu, Arabic, Japanese, and some Native American languag like Nahuatl, or Quechua! (Screw Spanish! :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :sniper: :sniper: )

That's 7 languages versus your 9! (counting English!)

:D
oh yes! forgot arabic and polish(and welsh and chipawayen and scottish/gaelige)! actually, i'd probably try to learn any language if i had the resources to, heheh. my djadju is polish, and he tried to teach me, but he forgets much of it(so he says, but i've heard him talk to his brother in it quite well). i know yopenese, english and spanish already. and i'm not shure if you'd include this; but i'm working on a conlang, that's something i'll be able to speak too when i finnish it.

which languages do you speak already?

oh yes! forgot arabic and polish(and welsh and chipawayen and scottish/gaelige)! actually, i'd probably try to learn any language if i had the resources to, heheh. my djadju is polish, and he tried to teach me, but he forgets much of it(so he says, but i've heard him talk to his brother in it quite well). i know yopenese, english and spanish already. and i'm not shure if you'd include this; but i'm working on a conlang, that's something i'll be able to speak too when i finnish it.

which languages do you speak already?

English. Only English. :(

btw, If you want to learn your 15 or so languages, you should stop the conlang. It takes up memory.

I used to be working on a conlang once, too, though. What is Yopenese and Chipwyan?

I found this: http://ww3.pimsleurapproach.com/include/lp/19_95_tm1/lp001.asp?learn=ChineseM

Is it any good?