NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/science/30profile.html?ex=1125547200&en=631977063d726261&ei=5070

All I can say is ... if there's a case against democracy in the US, this is it.

"One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth, an idea science had abandoned by the 17th century."

...
...

OHMYGOD.
My faith in humanity has just collapsed. Which it does frighteningly often.

One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth, an idea science had abandoned by the 17th century.

WHAT!?

:eek:

Wow, it's almost unbelievable if I had not just read it in a mainstream news source.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/science/30profile.html?ex=1125547200&en=631977063d726261&ei=5070

All I can say is ... if there's a case against democracy in the US, this is it.

Ouch! :D

Lately, people who advocate the teaching of evolution have been citing Dr. Miller's ideas on what factors are correlated with adherence to creationism and rejection of Darwinian theories. In general, he says, these fundamentalist views are most common among people who are not well educated and who "work in jobs that are evaporating fast with competition around the world."

"One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth, an idea science had abandoned by the 17th century."


I am just not accepting this. Is it even possible? Holy Moly. What the hell kind of planetary maps, mobiles, etc. do they sell in the midwest and south. Assuming of course that is where the numbers make it 1 out of 5......

Fewer than a third can identify DNA as a key to heredity. Only about 10 percent know what radiation is. One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth, an idea science had abandoned by the 17th century.

That is depressing. These are also the same people who come in here and lump the Big Bang and Evolution together. The same people who really don't know what a "theory" is or how the scientific method works.

Here's a interesting article from today's MSNBC about human and chimp DNA:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9136200/

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/science/30profile.html?ex=1125547200&en=631977063d726261&ei=5070

All I can say is ... if there's a case against democracy in the US, this is it.Not democracy. Bad education. We've already got a system in place to keep stupid people from making important decisions: The Electoral College.

I've always thought that some people made it their point in life to show how stupid they are. Now I know it's true.

I beleive it. People are dumb. Our president said an invisible being from the sky told him to be president and nobody thought to lock him in a rubber room.

"One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth, an idea science had abandoned by the 17th century."



...of course, given that there are no fixed points in the cosmos viewing the Sun/Earth relation as geocentric rather than heliocentric is in fact a technically valid outlook, even though it is a hideously and needlessly compelx one.

Should we bring back tests in order to vote ?

...of course, given that there are no fixed points in the cosmos viewing the Sun/Earth relation as geocentric rather than heliocentric is in fact a technically valid outlook, even though it is a hideously and needlessly compelx one.

No, it isn't. Vastly more massive objects don't orbit vastly less massive objects.

Not democracy. Bad education. We've already got a system in place to keep stupid people from making important decisions: The Electoral College.
Exactly. This is why we are a republic, folks, not a democracy. :D

Everyone noticed the 1 in 5 Americans bit. Hey, look on the bright side: At least they're over the world not being flat :D

Exactly. This is why we are a republic, folks, not a democracy. :DNoooo! We agree on something! :eek:

No, it isn't. Vastly more massive objects don't orbit vastly less massive objects.

Of course, the reality is that both orbit a common center of gravity.

Everyone noticed the 1 in 5 Americans bit. Hey, look on the bright side: At least they're over the world not being flat :D

When did people on the American continent ever believe the world to be flat?

That is depressing. These are also the same people who come in here and lump the Big Bang and Evolution together. The same people who really don't know what a "theory" is or how the scientific method works.

Here's a interesting article from today's MSNBC about human and chimp DNA:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9136200/


Already posted that! :p :p :p

Only one person commented. Hmmmm

Of course, the reality is that both orbit a common center of gravity.

...which is itself determined by the contents of the rest of the entire cosmos, none of which are 'at rest'.

Eech… that scares me, that scares me! Although I don't live in America, that is… unbelievable. Almost.

This just in: 1 in 5 Americans fail at life.

wouldnt be surprised what with the american ed system-eg learn the periodic table with pepsi

American adults in general do not understand what molecules are (other than that they are really small).

Pathetic. A molecule is a cluster of atoms joined by the behavior of electrons in the outer shells and is the unit of matter one level more complex than the atom.

Fewer than a third can identify DNA as a key to heredity.

Really pathetic. A child receives half their genes from each biological parent, genes being particularly placed and ordered sequences of acids in the *shock and awe* DNA molecule.

Only about 10 percent know what radiation is.

Seriously now! When an atom's nucleus has a number of neutrons too disparate from normal, it becomes unstable, decays at an exponential rate into a stable isotope of another element, and in the process emits one of three kinds of radiation: alpha particles (helium nuclei), beta particles (electrons), or gamma rays (extremely high-frequency electromagnetic waves).

One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth, an idea science had abandoned by the 17th century.

Oh dear. Just... oh dear. :headbang:

Keep in mind, the only post-elementary science education I've had is a single trimester of "Intro to Chemistry". And yeah, I'm an American in a school district that's being woefully underfunded by the state.

wouldnt be surprised what with the american ed system-eg learn the periodic table with pepsi
Colayum is the element that gives Pepsi it's great flavor. CS, the abbreviation for the element corn syrup gives it it's sweetness.

This just in: 1 in 5 Americans fail at life.

This also just in: One in 5 Americans report their faith in Bush to be "unshakeable."

Thank you folks, I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip your waitress.

the whole culture of science is for geeks in schools with the jocks and cheerleader types hardly helps either.

And yeah, I'm an American in a school district that's being woefully underfunded by the state.

What school district isn't in America?

Seriously now! When an atom's nucleus has a number of neutrons too disparate from normal, it becomes unstable, decays at an exponential rate into a stable isotope of another element, and in the process emits one of three kinds of radiation: alpha particles (helium nuclei), beta particles (electrons), or gamma rays (extremely high-frequency electromagnetic waves).

That's just radiation from radioactive materials. Radiation also includes things like sunlight, starlight, lightbulbs, etc...really, anything that emits electromagnetic energy is considered to be emitting radiation.

What school district isn't in America?

Do they call it something else in other countries?

OH GOD HAHAHAHAH

Everyone the flat earth society
http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

I quote
But why? Why do we say the Earth is flat, when the vast majority says otherwise? Because we know the truth!!!

HAHAHAH I just lost a lot of faith in humanity

This just in: 1 in 5 Americans fail at life.
We all fail at life, silly. It’s called dieing. :p

Anyway, keep in mind, most American adults really don’t understand why they should have to remember anything about science if it doesn’t have anything to do with their job. Frankly, I don’t see any reason to, either, unless you just happen to be interested in that sort of thing.

We all fail at life, silly. It’s called dieing. :p

Anyway, keep in mind, most American adults really don’t understand why they should have to remember anything about science if it doesn’t have anything to do with their job. Frankly, I don’t see any reason to, either, unless you just happen to be interested in that sort of thing.
Well it would be nice if those people just didn't vote in school board elections then. Come to think of it, it would be nice if they didn't run for any public office either. We live in too technological of a world for morons to make or vote on public policy.

OH GOD HAHAHAHAH

Everyone the flat earth society
http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

I quote
But why? Why do we say the Earth is flat, when the vast majority says otherwise? Because we know the truth!!!

HAHAHAH I just lost a lot of faith in humanity

Whoosh!

That was the sound of a joke flying straight over Karaska's head.


Frex: their disclaimer -

The Flat Earth Society is not in any way responsible for the failure of the French to repel the Germans at the Maginot Line during WWII. Nor is the Flat Earth Society responsible for the recent yeti sightings outside the Vatican, or for the unfortunate enslavement of the Nabisco Inc. factory employees by a rogue hamster insurrectionist group. Furthermore, we are not responsible for the loss of one or more of the following, which may possibly occur as the result of exposing one's self to the dogmatic and dangerously subversive statements made within: life, limb, vision, Francois Mitterand, hearing, taste, smell, touch, thumb, Aunt Mildred, citizenship, spleen, bedrock, cloves, I Love Lucy reruns, toaster, pine derby racer, toy duck, antelope, horseradish, prosthetic ankle, double-cheeseburger, tin foil, limestone, watermelon-scented air freshner, sanity, paprika, German to Pig Latin dictionary, dish towel, pet Chihuahua, pogo stick, Golf Digest subscription, floor tile, upper torso or halibut.

Copyright © 1998 Flat Earth Society Inc. All rights reserved.

I am just not accepting this. Is it even possible? Holy Moly. What the hell kind of planetary maps, mobiles, etc. do they sell in the midwest and south. Assuming of course that is where the numbers make it 1 out of 5......

Why would you assume this? Is it because you percieve there to be more religious people in the midwest and south?

We all fail at life, silly. It’s called dieing. :p

Anyway, keep in mind, most American adults really don’t understand why they should have to remember anything about science if it doesn’t have anything to do with their job. Frankly, I don’t see any reason to, either, unless you just happen to be interested in that sort of thing.It's got to do with being able to take part in discussions when the issue comes to legislation. That's what the article started out with.
Frankly, one of the reasons why anyone should is that global warming (whether natural or not) is probably what is causing the massive influx in hurricanes. Hurricanes are a natural cooling mechanism of the earth...
I don't really trust the fate of the earth to people that are too ignorant to decide properly on how to ensure humanity's survival.

Why would you assume this? Is it because you percieve there to be more religious people in the midwest and south?

And why do they call it the Bible Belt?

Why would you assume this? Is it because you percieve there to be more religious people in the midwest and south?
Perceive what? Have you ever heard of the Bible Belt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_belt) ?

It's got to do with being able to take part in discussions when the issue comes to legislation. That's what the article started out with.
Frankly, one of the reasons why anyone should is that global warming (whether natural or not) is probably what is causing the massive influx in hurricanes. Hurricanes are a natural cooling mechanism of the earth...
I don't really trust the fate of the earth to people that are too ignorant to decide properly on how to ensure humanity's survival.
Actually, hurricane activity is cyclical. Every few hundred years for about fifteen to twenty years, hurricane activity picks up.

Actually, hurricane activity is cyclical. Every few hundred years for about fifteen to twenty years, hurricane activity picks up.Doesn't mean they aren't a natural coolant. Maybe they are cyclical. Maybe they aren't. We'll see in fifteen to twenty years.

Edit: Actually, we might find out sooner. Here's an interesting article on it (http://www.livescience.com/forcesofnature/050810_hurricane_trees.html)

"We know the world is a better place when schools get all the funding they need and the Air Force has to host a bake sale in order to buy a bomber."
-Random bumper sticker

"We know the world is a better place when schools get all the funding they need and the Air Force has to host a bake sale in order to buy a bomber."
-Random bumper sticker
Oh please, the US already spends more money per student than any other country in the world. Well, besides Iceland, but they are a special case. The problem with our education system isn’t a lack of money, it’s misdirected funds and children who aren’t willing to learn.

For a little perspective, if this thread were the USA, four of us would believe the sun revolved around the Earth.

Oh please, the US already spends more money per student than any other country in the world. Well, besides ...

...and Denmark.
...and Switzerland.
...and Austria.

(for primary schooling)

...and Switzerland.
...and Austria.

(for secondary schooling)

And why do they call it the Bible Belt?


I think you're confusing the southen plains for the midwest. The midwest is the great lakes area west of and including Ohio and also includes Iowa. Oklahoma, Kansas, and north Texas are part of the southern plains. There is *nothing* midwestern about Oklahoma. Missouri is a transition state. The northeast of Missouri is more midwestern, the south and south east are more southern and the west is more southern plains. Nebraska, South and North Dakota are northern plains states. FYI

Edited to ad that a great many Americans don't know their geography either.

I think you're confusing the southen plains for the midwest. The midwest is the great lakes area west of and including Ohio and also includes Iowa. Oklahoma, Kansas, and north Texas are part of the southern plains. There is *nothing* midwestern about Oklahoma. Missouri is a transition state. The northeast of Missouri is more midwestern, the south and south east are more southern and the west is more southern plains. Nebraska, South and North Dakota are northern plains states. FYI

Edited to ad that a great many Americans don't know their geography either.

Well I should have added more info then the simple bible belt comment. I know more about geography then you think. I have traveled all 50 states and I can even name most of their capitols. ;)

Can I take the too lazy to list out states excuse. ;)

I think you're confusing the southen plains for the midwest. The midwest is the great lakes area west of and including Ohio and also includes Iowa. Oklahoma, Kansas, and north Texas are part of the southern plains. There is *nothing* midwestern about Oklahoma. Missouri is a transition state. The northeast of Missouri is more midwestern, the south and south east are more southern and the west is more southern plains. Nebraska, South and North Dakota are northern plains states. FYI

Edited to ad that a great many Americans don't know their geography either.
What would you call the Tennessee, Kentucky, southern Indiana area? It's south of the midwest, but not quite enough to be southern.

I guess it doesn't have a name because it's the most boring place on earth.

What would you call the Tennessee, Kentucky, southern Indiana area? It's south of the midwest, but not quite enough to be southern.

I guess it doesn't have a name because it's the most boring place on earth.

I live in Kentucky...:(

Oh please, the US already spends more money per student than any other country in the world. Well, besides Iceland, but they are a special case. The problem with our education system isn’t a lack of money, it’s misdirected funds and children who aren’t willing to learn.

Perhaps it's not the money we're throwing at it (why do conservatives always look at the $'s being spent to tell how well something is doing?) but the ways it's being spent and distributed (schools in poor areas receive much less funding.)

Or perhaps it's because there are people (like you, as you mentioned yourself) who don't see why people should know more science than their job requires, and yet still like to talk about science as if they were an authority (as you did when you stated that hurricane activity was cyclical.)

Knowledge of science allows people to know for themselves hoiw things work, and also the techniques to best find out more information for one's self. Therefore it is much harder for the government to lie to you. Knowledge is as important a weapon for sustaining Democracy as any weapon guaranteed us by the 2nd Amendment.

But hey, who cares about science anyway? Leave it to the scientists...until they come to a conclusion that we disagree with in our ignorance.

*sighs* Staying in Japan is looking better and better all the time.

Not democracy. Bad education. We've already got a system in place to keep stupid people from making important decisions: The Electoral College.

But that's the problem; people who consider science "democratic". In a programme called "Bullshit" with the magicians Penn and Teller film is shown of a (Kansas?) meeting-hall in which the citizens of a town vote on whether Creationism should be taught as scientific and at all in their schools.

Science is not democratic; therefore it stands irrevocably against the American Dream of Total Democracy.

Wow, it's almost unbelievable if I had not just read it in a mainstream news source. :eek: :D

The hell....this guy can't be right...what the flying fuck? 1 in FIVE?

I really need to meet more fellow Americans or something because I have yet to see someone who needed a good slap across the face for not knowing that the earth revolves around the sun.

I'm not surprised. There are many in this country that know a lot of things instinctively. Yet they make no attempt to socialize with anyone other than peers, and the scientifically illiterate stay away from the guys who know anything. It's an unfortunate symptom of a great success story in America. The US always had a strong science backround, and many kids took advantage of it. But most of our greatest scientists were born overseas in more repressive countries, where science was the surest ticket to success. Now, these guys can live a good life in their own countries. They couldn't teach our kids because of language and cultural barriers, but they sure did make contributions. Now, no one is left. We are left, therefore, with an aristocracy, but not of money. It is an aristocracy of knowledge.
Edit: While I complain about it, I myself could care less either way. This aristocracy does a fine job keeping this country running. Everyone else is perfectly happy to remain cogs, or perhaps these scientists financiers.

The hell....this guy can't be right...what the flying fuck? 1 in FIVE?

I really need to meet more fellow Americans or something because I have yet to see someone who needed a good slap across the face for not knowing that the earth revolves around the sun.

How often does the subject come up when you're meeting random people?

I live in Kentucky...:(
I'm sorry, I truly am. I've been to Kentucky and that area and the one thing that struck me was how god damned boring it was.

Miles and miles of highways and strip malls, with constantly flat ground. I thought my town was boring, at least there's a bustling economic center 4 miles away.

How often does the subject come up when you're meeting random people?
1/5 Americans = About 50 million

How can 50 million people completely MISS this?

Perhaps they misunderstood the question? It does appear the sun goes around the earth if your not all that educated and only notice that the sun appears on one side of the planet and sets on the other.

I suppose they could use the "Sherlock Holmes" defence that such facts were of no practical use to them in their every day lives:
My surprise reached a climax, however, when I found incidentally that he was ignorant of the Copernican Theory and of the composition of the Solar System. That any civilized human being in this nineteenth century should not be aware that the earth travelled round the sun appeared to me to be such an extraordinary fact that I could hardly realize it.
“You appear to be astonished,” he said, smiling at my expression of surprise. “Now that I do know it I shall do my best to forget it.”
“To forget it!”
“You see,” he explained, “I consider that a man’s brain originally is like a little empty attic, and you have to stock it with such furniture as you choose. A fool takes in all the lumber of every sort that he comes across, so that the knowledge which might be useful to him gets crowded out, or at best is jumbled up with a lot of other things, so that he has a difficulty in laying his hands upon it. Now the skilful workman is very careful indeed as to what he takes into his brain-attic. He will have nothing but the tools which may help him in doing his work, but of these he has a large assortment, and all in the most perfect order. It is a mistake to think that that little room has elastic walls and can distend to any extent. Depend upon it there comes a time when for every addition of knowledge you forget something that you knew before. It is of the highest importance, therefore, not to have useless facts elbowing out the useful ones.”
“But the Solar System!” I protested.
“What the deuce is it to me?” he interrupted impatiently: “you say that we go round the sun. If we went round the moon it would not make a pennyworth of difference to me or to my work.”

Perceive what? Have you ever heard of the Bible Belt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_belt) ?
heard of it? sure I live there. I was just commenting on the fact that I don't believe that it is wise to characterize us as stupid because you percieve us to be more religious than the rest of the country. I say percieve because the term "bible belt" isn't really based in anything other than what people percieve to be more "christains" around here than anywhere else. I haven't really seen any evidence that shows that there are more religious people here than there are anywhere else in the country.

I suppose they could use the "Sherlock Holmes" defence that such facts were of no practical use to them in their every day lives:

The beauty of a person who has such views is that they will not force their voice to be heard in matters that they know little about. That's a far cry from the loudly uninformed that want their views to be the norm.

I must also need to get out more. Maybe I have been living in some kind of protective environment and not known it. But my experience won't let me believe this article. The way I see it, the guy has an agenda and greatly distorts the ignorance of his opposition to push it onto others.

Hahaha, my co-worker just read that and asked "do they believe the sun revolves around the Earth, or that the sun revolves around America?"

An amusing bit from the Aug 22nd New Yorker:



How did we—not just Americans but human beings in general—come to be? Opinions differ, but for most of recorded history the consensus view was that people were made out of mud. Also, that the mud was originally turned into people by a being or beings who themselves resembled people, only bigger, more powerful, and longer-lived, often immortal. The early Chinese theorized that a lonely goddess, pining for company, used yellow mud to fashion the first humans. According to the ancient Greeks, Prometheus sculpted the first man from mud, after which Athena breathed life into him. Mud is the man-making material in the creation stories of Mesopotamian city-states, African tribes, and American Indian nations.

The mud theory is still dominant in the United States, in the form of the Book of Genesis, whose version of the origin of our species, according to a recent Gallup poll, is deemed true by forty-five per cent of the American public.


The science deniers are a disgrace to western civilization, not just the US.

The science deniers are a disgrace to western civilization, not just the US.

Mmm, given the way they go on and on, maybe they are right. Some of them at least have a fair composition of mud. Particularly in the cerebral areas ;)

It would be wonderful to coin the term "mud people" to refer to creationists and "Intelligent Design" brand creationists.

Hah! I can see it now. "Oh no! It's the mud people! Run for your lives!" :D

Wait, let me get this straight. The sun doesn't revolve around the earth? This changes everything!

I see it now. The earth isn't flat. We evolved from primitive apes. The bible might be fiction. George Bush is an idiot! It all makes sense!

Amazing.

Science is not democratic; therefore it stands irrevocably against the American Dream of Total Democracy.
That isn’t the American dream. Usually the American dream revolves around getting your life to that place where you are completely content most of the time. That doesn’t require total democracy, it simply requires that the people own the government, not the other way around, and that the government stay out of our lives. We are a Republic.

The Founding Fathers, who repeatedly assured people that they weren’t creating a democracy, are spinning in their graves.

That isn’t the American dream. Usually the American dream revolves around getting you life to that place where you are completely content most of the time. That doesn’t require total democracy, it simply requires that the people own the government, not the other way around, and that the government stay out of our lives. We are a Republic.

The Founding Fathers, who repeatedly assured people that they weren’t creating a democracy, are spinning in their graves.

Are you kidding? The American Dream is to die with two suvs and an outstanding credit card debt.

Everyone noticed the 1 in 5 Americans bit. Hey, look on the bright side: At least they're over the world not being flat :D


but but if the world isnt flat how is the USA the center of the world??

the one i did like was getting year 9? kids to identify the US on a world map, most (i heard 73%) chose the USSR cause its the biggest country... (this being back in the late 70's early 80's...)

Are you kidding? The American Dream is to die with two suvs and an outstanding credit card debt.
No. That is reality. The dream is to pay of the credit card and the car and to own an un-mortgaged home for most people. It does happen. I’ve seen it many times.

Hahaha, my co-worker just read that and asked "do they believe the sun revolves around the Earth, or that the sun revolves around America?"

LOL! As an American, I should be offended or something, but that's hilarious. I've taught in dozens of US high schools and middle schools, and unfortunately, I've noticed that those students that naturally exhibit any kind of real interest in observing and testing the world around them are often viciously derided by their peers.

"Look, that girl is wondering about how plants survive in arid environments! She's stupid." Not the exact dialogue, but close.

LOL! As an American, I should be offended or something, but that's hilarious. I've taught in dozens of US high schools and middle schools, and unfortunately, I've noticed that those students that naturally exhibit any kind of real interest in observing and testing the world around them are often viciously derided by their peers.

"Look, that girl is wondering about how plants survive in arid environments! She's stupid." Not the exact dialogue, but close.
Oddly enough, in the town where I go to school, the smart kids are treated the same as the other kids, even a bit better in certain situations. Some of the most popular kids in our school are at the top of their class.
Of course, we’re just dumb ol’ intolerant Texans. :rolleyes:

Oddly enough, in the town where I go to school, the smart kids are treated the same as the other kids, even a bit better in certain situations. Some of the most popular kids in our school are at the top of their class.
Of course, we’re just dumb ol’ intolerant Texans. :rolleyes:

I'm glad things are better where you live, honestly. But not every school has it that way. Hopefully, your town will be a trendsetter. How long have you been teaching? Thats a friendly question, I like talking to other teachers :)

Why would you assume this? Is it because you percieve there to be more religious people in the midwest and south?

And what does religion have to do with this? I've known atheists who are geocentrists, who don't even know of the existance of cells, who think that human pregnancy lasts for six trimesters consisting of four months each (either the women they know have never been pregnant, had their kids before they knew them, or have no concept of time), and a myriad of things so absurd that you would swear I'm making them up.

The sad thing is, none of these people were considered mentally handicapped in school, even though they graduated with those beliefs.

I guess according to the intellectual "elites" all Christians have to be designated as mentally retarded while even the dumbest of naturalists range from moderately intelligent to genius.

I'm glad things are better where you live, honestly. But not every school has it that way. Hopefully, your town will be a trendsetter. How long have you been teaching? Thats a friendly question, I like talking to other teachers :)
:p I'm a student.
Oddly enough, in the town where I go to school, the smart kids are treated the same as the other kids, even a bit better in certain situations. Some of the most popular kids in our school are at the top of their class.
I do plan to be a teacher someday, though.

:p I'm a student.

I do plan to be a teacher someday though.

Well, if you want to get a jump start, some states let you do both (not sure about Texas). Once you finish your undergrad work (or, depending on your credential program, a few years before), you can get a sub license and teach on days you don't have class. Some states will even give you credit for the hours.

Its also a good way to teach at several levels and see where you feel you can do the most.

I am not surprised by this. Most Americans can't pick out where thye live on a globe.

Well, if you want to get a jump start, some states let you do both (not sure about Texas). Once you finish your undergrad work (or, depending on your credential program, a few years before), you can get a sub license and teach on days you don't have class. Some states will even give you credit for the hours.

Its also a good way to teach at several levels and see where you feel you can do the most.
Yep, they do that here. In fact, you almost have to participate in a teaching assistant program to get certified. That way, Texas gets experienced teachers and free teacher aids.

Yep, they do that here. In fact, you almost have to participate in a teaching assistant program to get certified. That way, Texas gets experienced teachers and free teacher aids.

Does Texas have a shortage of science teachers? There's a critical shortage of math and science teachers in the Southwest US. If this situation is prevalent elsewhere and has persisted for some time, it might be contributing to a low level of scientic background in the general population of adults.

Does Texas have a shortage of science teachers? There's a critical shortage of math and science teachers in the Southwest US. If this situation is prevalent elsewhere and has persisted for some time, it might be contributing to a low level of scientic background in the general population of adults.
We have more than enough around here, but it’s a small town that does okay financially. Texas has a lot of big poor cities, though, and I would imagine it’s pretty bad in those places. It was my understanding that there was a shortage of math and science teachers almost everywhere.

Also, never rule out the rejection of science. I know many people, including myself, who could ace a test on evolution and the evidence for it, but don’t believe in it. Funny thing is, we don’t have a problem with being taught it (contrary to the opinion of many politicians). In education you are bound to hear things you don’t agree with. We’ve just kind of accepted it, and we have accepted that science can not accommodate our beliefs by its nature (testable hypothesis and such.)

"One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth, an idea science had abandoned by the 17th century."

I doubt they actually think it. They were probably asked "does the sun revolve around the Earth," and since they didn't think it was a trick question they just said "yes."

You know, like that old joke.
Q what's 4+3
A 7
Q what's 5+2
A 7
Q what's 10-3
A 7
Q How many weeks in a day?
A 7
Q 7? 7?! What're you a dumbass?
A STFU

Does Texas have a shortage of science teachers? There's a critical shortage of math and science teachers in the Southwest US. If this situation is prevalent elsewhere and has persisted for some time, it might be contributing to a low level of scientic background in the general population of adults.

It's not that they have a shortage of teachers. It's that they have a political body who's job it is to determine what sort of things ought to go into textbooks. If they reject a textbook then it won't get sold in Texas. This is a problem for the rest of the country, because if a textbook won't get sold in all of Texas then it encourages the company to make a textbook that Texas politicians like for the whole country rather than make two entirely different textbooks, one for Texan politicians, and another for people who actually want to learn facts. These politicians don't even have to have any credentials in the subject that they're deciding the fate of books on.

Read the book "History on Trial." There's an anecdote in there about their meeting where one of the members (who was married to an oil tycoon) said "why do oil companies have to be the bad guy all the time? I don't like how these environmentalists try to make global warming their fault." Although, that was about a science book, not history.

Antre_Travarious']I am not surprised by this. Most Americans can't pick out where thye live on a globe.


Oh it's not that bad.....

Not democracy. Bad education. We've already got a system in place to keep stupid people from making important decisions: The Electoral College.
Apparently it failed you.

Oh it's not that bad.....
Yep. It's only 43% of us.

Disclaimer: CthulhuFhtagn takes no responsibility for any occurance that results from you being stupid enough to use the above statistic. Unless it gets you laid. Then CthulhuFhtagn gets the credit.

1 in 5 americans think the sun goes round the earth? Don't be silly, that just proves that they went outside their door and annoyed passers by with silly questions which prompted 1 in 5 of them to answer as stupidly as possible for their own entertainment.

six trimesters

Umm... do they understand the meaning of the word trimester? You can only have more than three if there's more than one whole...

Oh it's not that bad.....

Actually.. yeah, it is. I've grown up knowing this sort of thing. I remember back in highschool I was talking with some friends about how bad American students are at geography. There were a couple tests that Americans rated as some of the worst in the world: Finding their own city on a globe, and matching names of countries to numbers put around the globe.
I'm serious. The only country that scored worse than the US in the test was Russia.
Mind you, that was several years ago now, but with the release of this article, it doesn't bode well for those figures having changed significantly.

1 in 5 americans think the sun goes round the earth? Don't be silly, that just proves that they went outside their door and annoyed passers by with silly questions which prompted 1 in 5 of them to answer as stupidly as possible for their own entertainment.

I agree. I can buy "Americans are bad at geography," but buying this is too much of a leap for me. I think some people had this great idea to just answer the dumbest way possible.

Well, that would explain some of the discussions I had on this forum. At first I thought people were pulling my leg, but some of them did turn out to be serious about what they said.
I particularly remember one guy who tried to tell me that evolution cannot work because no to ape parents could have a human child. When I started to try and explain mutation and the concept of survival of the fittest on a protozoan basis, he became rather confused and aggressive. He ended up taking personal offense on me obviously knowing more than him and it therefore not being a "fair discussion"...

What???? The sun DOESN'T revolve around the earth? How long has this been going on?

Next you'll be telling me that disease isnt caused by demons.

Yeah right.

Why not just start writing complete fiction and try convincing people that Baby Oil isn't really made from babies.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/health/article-printpage.html?res=9D0CE0DA103EF932A1575BC0A9639C8B63

IN 2001, President Bush restricted federal financing for stem cell research. The decision, which was shaped at least partly by the Republican Party's evangelical Christian base, and which disappointed many American scientists and businessmen, provoked joy in India. The weekly newsmagazine India Today, read mostly by the country's ambitious middle class, spoke of a ''new pot of gold'' for Indian science and businesses. ''If Indians are smart,'' the magazine said, American qualms about stem cell research ''can open an opportunity to march ahead.''

Just four years later, this seems to have occurred. According to Ernst & Young's Global Biotechnology Report in 2004, Indian biotechnology companies are expected to grow tenfold in the next five years, creating more than a million jobs. With more than 10,000 highly trained and cheaply available scientists, the country is one of the leading biotechnology powers along with Korea, Singapore, China, Japan, Sweden, Britain and Israel.

Now you know why Indians love Bush and America (as per the recent Pew poll) ;)

Actually.. yeah, it is. I've grown up knowing this sort of thing. I remember back in highschool I was talking with some friends about how bad American students are at geography. There were a couple tests that Americans rated as some of the worst in the world: Finding their own city on a globe, and matching names of countries to numbers put around the globe.
I'm serious. The only country that scored worse than the US in the test was Russia.
Mind you, that was several years ago now, but with the release of this article, it doesn't bode well for those figures having changed significantly.

Wow. That's dissappointing. I guess I shouldn't be surprised when I read that teenagers would declare the axis powers as germany, japan and england.

Dangit, there y'all go agin, bashin the midwest n south.

Get off it. I've been everywhere in the US at one time or another in my lifetime and have actually lived in every major region of the country excepting the northeast and the deep south. Ignorance is everywhere.

Maybe they need to figure out a way to make Nintendo, X-Box and PS3 teach science.

Last time I checked, they're still teaching science here in Kanas City. Whether or not my sons pay attention and learn is up to them and me as a parent.

Stop blaming the system and start fixing the problem.

You are only as ignorant as you choose to be.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/health/article-printpage.html?res=9D0CE0DA103EF932A1575BC0A9639C8B63

Now you know why Indians love Bush and America (as per the recent Pew poll) ;)

How did that line go? Ah yes. "Please teach your children dogma instead of science. We would like their jobs."

It would be wonderful to coin the term "mud people" to refer to creationists and "Intelligent Design" brand creationists.
It's already being used by idiot racists to refer to brown colored people.

Of course, the reality is that both orbit a common center of gravity.
i think he's right you know... I read somewhere that orbits work like two people swinging eachother around in a circle, imagine two midgets, when they hold eachoters arms and spin around, they both move, now imagine a large fat man comes and replaces one of the midgets, the fat man is still moving, but a lot less...

or maybe I'm just 1 out of five americans :(

...

HahahahaHahahahaHahahahaHahahahaHahahahaHahahahaHahahahaHahahahaHahahahaHahahahaHahahahaHahahahaHaha hahaHahahahaHahahahaHahahaha

Funniest... Thing... Ever...

Jesus fucking Christ! One in five thinks the sun revolves around the earth!!! What the FUCK! I now fully understand why Americans talk, act and vote the way they do. En-fucking-tirely understand now.

Jesus I'm like in shock at that.

It's already being used by idiot racists to refer to brown colored people.


Indeed, which means that appoproiating it to refer to science deniers would serve a dual-purpose by robbing the racists of a slur.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/science/30profile.html?ex=1125547200&en=631977063d726261&ei=5070

All I can say is ... if there's a case against democracy in the US, this is it.

An interesting article, though I am quietly not surprised. Given that education has given up teaching for political correctness, it's really not all that surprising.

"1 in 5 people think the sun revolves around the earth"

Sorry but I don't think the natives in the Ozarks quite represent the rest of this country. Although I'm not entirely surprised there are some...interesting people in the "sticks" of PA too.

I don't believe the article. I know hundreds, maybe a thousand people, and not one of them believes the sun revolves around the earth.

I don't believe the article. I know hundreds, maybe a thousand people, and not one of them believes the sun revolves around the earth.
Have you asked them all? Maybe of the thousand people you know about 200 are just that dumb.

How did that line go? Ah yes. "Please teach your children dogma instead of science. We would like their jobs."

In a level playing field and the free market environment, jobs will keep going to India and China and wherever it (manufacturing/services) can be done cheaper. You cannot stop that due to the economic inequalities between US and India/China. As long as that exists, somebody in India will always be willing to offer the same service at a lesser price and somebody in China will always be willing to make that product at a lesser price.

But innovation is still happening only in the US, but not for long.

If US education is not shored up, innovation will also shift to countries like India.

I can see the trend. From working for cheap wages (BPO industries), now Indian professionals are setting up their own shops in places like Bangalore and are now offering cheap software packages. In fact many of my colleagues have left nice paying US jobs for start ups in Bangalore for the thrill of working in an environment of innovation. A brain drain from the US to India. :eek: I never thought it would happen in my lifetime. The upcoming SUSE Linux 10.0 Beta3 is even codenamed "Bangalore" !

Reg dogma, it is there in every country. India is a very conservative society, especially religion wise. (Holy cows, anyone ? ;) )But unlike the US, there is no religious lobby interfering with education and science. And also there is not much of a geek Vs jocks/cheerleaders thing in Indian schools. Science and Engineering and Medicine are still the most sought after degrees.

i think he's right you know... I read somewhere that orbits work like two people swinging eachother around in a circle, imagine two midgets, when they hold eachoters arms and spin around, they both move, now imagine a large fat man comes and replaces one of the midgets, the fat man is still moving, but a lot less...

or maybe I'm just 1 out of five americans :(
well, but the sun is much heavier than the earth, you should replace the fat guy with a giant truck or something

and the sun does move because of the planets circling round it, they use that phenomen to search space for stars with planets, when the star does not move, it doesn't have planets or something. (i'm not exactly sure about that second paragraph, maybe some real scientist could clear that out?)

But innovation is still happening only in the US, but not for long.

If US education is not shored up, innovation will also shift to countries like India.

Precisely. If students are taught dogma instead of science, how do you think they are going to innovate anything? Stack a few cans of beer together, claim it to be a fusion reactor and pray for god to make it work?


:eek: I never thought it would happen in my lifetime. The upcoming SUSE Linux 10.0 Beta3 is even codenamed "Bangalore" !


Russia is also having quite a few jumps in software innovation apparently. Given the state of things there, I'd say it appears that it does encourage innovation. Something about neccessity being the mother of inventions ne?


Science and Engineering and Medicine are still the most sought after degrees.

Mmm, true. I've talked to an Indian lecturer I knew once. Engineers and medical practitioners are the most prestigious jobs there apparently. Not to mention the fact that due to limitations on available positions at state universities, the entry requirements are the toughest around, ensuring only the cream of the crop get in.

"1 in 5 people think the sun revolves around the earth"

Sorry but I don't think the natives in the Ozarks quite represent the rest of this country. Although I'm not entirely surprised there are some...interesting people in the "sticks" of PA too.

Ok, so far I've been called a science denier because I don't see the logic of abiogenesis giving way to marine life that became birds, mammals, reptiles, etc. and a geocentrist for the simple fact that I was born and bred in the Ozarks.

Why is our dogma merely a superstitious throwback to the bronze age and earlier, while yours is the undeniable, yet unproven truth? Do any of you even research opposing viewpoints or do you just think that if they don't teach it in school it's wrong by default?

There is no denial of science in Creationism. The mutation and emergence of species is a a vital part of our science, as is survival of the fittest.

We have evidence that the horses we know today emerged from a horse that most children wouldn't recognize as a horse from illustrations, as do naturalists. However, I have seen no evidence of a strictly aquatic organism which mutated into amphibians, nor have I seen evidence for the progression from amphibian to mammal.

Now if I could see concrete evidence of such things I very well may become a naturalist, but until then evolution starting from abiogenesis requires as much faith as the creation of mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, etc. by a deity.

I have studied the opposing view, which is a courtesy not afforded by all too many naturalists I have encountered, and there are too many unanswered questions. For example, where did the amino acids required for abiogenesis come from?

We're ignorant for daring to question macroevolution? We lack cognative abilities because we don't believe that a fish mutated into an ape which mutated into man (yes, I left a few hundred (possibly thousand) steps out, but you get the idea)?

Isn't it possible that the naturalist lacks the cognative abilities required to even consider, for even a brief moment, that there may be a sapient being that assembled matter into the universe we see today?

Theories have been considered within the (secular) scientific community that the universe is enclosed within a sphere. The law of conservation of matter states that matter can be changed, but it cannot be created nor destroyed. Given that, why is it illogical to think that there may be a body beyond the universe? The law of conservation of energy states that energy can be changed, but not created nor destroyed. Isn't that enough to give the body sapience?

And why is it not possible for this being to assemble the eternally existing (according to the law of conservation of matter) matter into what we see now, possibly into a sphere that could be the size of a fish bowl to him? And why is it not possible for this being to assemble matter into the first human body and impart energy (or "breath the breath of life") into said body?

And to address the Ozarks comment, I was born in the Ozarks, I currently live in the Ozarks, and I will probably die in the Ozarks. I have not met anyone here who believes that the sun revolves around the earth.

We believe here that the sun is tethered to Taum Sauk Mountain, which is engaged in a perpetual game of tag with the fish in the Osage River. A fish will come out and tag the mountain in the morning while it's sitting down eating breakfast, then the mountain will slowly stand up and make its way to the river chasing after the fish. Night is caused by the sun sinking into the Osage River along with the mountain, which tags a fish and the whole process repeates.

At least that's the answer I would have pulled out of my arse to shut up the people giving the poll. Now if you'll excuse me, my spitoon's getting full, so I've gotta empty it. The little lady needs to use the outhouse, too, so I'll have to go out and check for possums. Them little critters get mean if you sit on them while they're poking around in the crap hole.

Umm... do they understand the meaning of the word trimester? You can only have more than three if there's more than one whole...

I seriously doubt he did. I don't think he even knows what "tri" means, much less trimester.

Precisely. If students are taught dogma instead of science, how do you think they are going to innovate anything? Stack a few cans of beer together, claim it to be a fusion reactor and pray for god to make it work?

It is sad seeing the way the policies are being formed in the US. Although it does indirectly help my home country India, I cannot help but feel sad about the trend here.


Russia is also having quite a few jumps in software innovation apparently. Given the state of things there, I'd say it appears that it does encourage innovation. Something about neccessity being the mother of inventions ne?


Oh yeah. Just how space constraints led to JIT and Kanban pull system in Japan, the resource constraints in countries like Russia and India will lead to innovative systems in service industry.


Not to mention the fact that due to limitations on available positions at state universities, the entry requirements are the toughest around, ensuring only the cream of the crop get in.

Yes. The competition is unbelievable. I had to ward off around 100,000 candidates to get admission for my undergrad. Also the standards are a bit tough. I had a hard time in my undergrad in India, but I breezed through my Postgrad in the US (comparable schools).

Btw, did you catch Charlie Rose's interview of Friedman and the discussion of his book "The Flat Earth" on PBS yesterday night? Have you read the book?

Hell even our jackass President said he didn't believe in Evolution. GODDAMN THOSE BIBLE PRAISING, THEOCRATIC, FREEDOM HATING, CIVIL RIGHTS TAKING, PATRIOT ACT SUPPORTING, AND NOT MOVING AWAY FROM THE MEDIEVAL AGE FUCKERS RUNNING MY COUNTRY!!!!

LONG LIVE EVOLUTION AND SCIENCE!!!!

Hell even our jackass President said he didn't believe in Evolution. GODDAMN THOSE BIBLE PRAISING, THEOCRATIC, FREEDOM HATING, CIVIL RIGHTS TAKING, PATRIOT ACT SUPPORTING, AND NOT MOVING AWAY FROM THE MEDIEVAL AGE FUCKERS RUNNING MY COUNTRY!!!!

LONG LIVE EVOLUTION AND SCIENCE!!!!Bush is not dumb enough to admit to something like that. He said that ID (the magic proposition) and ToE should be taught alongside each other.

Why is our dogma merely a superstitious throwback to the bronze age and earlier, while yours is the undeniable, yet unproven truth? Do any of you even research opposing viewpoints or do you just think that if they don't teach it in school it's wrong by default?

There is no denial of science in Creationism. The mutation and emergence of species is a a vital part of our science, as is survival of the fittest.


Actually, there's a lot of denial of science in Creationism. Namely, denial of the centuries of research and mountains of evidence supporting the theory of evolution.

I have studied the opposing view, which is a courtesy not afforded by all too many naturalists I have encountered, and there are too many unanswered questions. For example, where did the amino acids required for abiogenesis come from?
Carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen, and energy. Every hear the words "Urey-Miller Experiment"? Look it up. It answers your question nicely, methinks.


Isn't it possible that the naturalist lacks the cognative abilities required to even consider, for even a brief moment, that there may be a sapient being that assembled matter into the universe we see today?

Theories have been considered within the (secular) scientific community that the universe is enclosed within a sphere. The law of conservation of matter states that matter can be changed, but it cannot be created nor destroyed. Given that, why is it illogical to think that there may be a body beyond the universe? The law of conservation of energy states that energy can be changed, but not created nor destroyed. Isn't that enough to give the body sapience?

And why is it not possible for this being to assemble the eternally existing (according to the law of conservation of matter) matter into what we see now, possibly into a sphere that could be the size of a fish bowl to him? And why is it not possible for this being to assemble matter into the first human body and impart energy (or "breath the breath of life") into said body?


Well, since we have a number of explanations that can cover basically the entire Universe without resorting to the "We don't know, hence an invisible man in the sky of whom we have exactly zero evidence did it," there's absolutely no reason to start postulating extra-universal (which is impossible by the definition of the Universe, being all that there is) intelligences that magically put everything together through totally unexplained processes.

When did people on the American continent ever believe the world to be flat?

I think the bigger question is when did Americans realise that there is a world beyond their own borders?

Why is our dogma merely a superstitious throwback to the bronze age and earlier, while yours is the undeniable, yet unproven truth?

Because, in most cases, our truth stands the test of scientific investigation and does not ask for blind faith.

Do any of you even research opposing viewpoints or do you just think that if they don't teach it in school it's wrong by default?

Oh yes, I've read all the major works of mythology including the bible.

There is no denial of science in Creationism. The mutation and emergence of species is a a vital part of our science, as is survival of the fittest.

Of course creationism is a denial of science - it requires the belief in fairy stories.

We have evidence that the horses we know today emerged from a horse that most children wouldn't recognize as a horse from illustrations, as do naturalists. However, I have seen no evidence of a strictly aquatic organism which mutated into amphibians, nor have I seen evidence for the progression from amphibian to mammal.

You clearly to not keep up with science. Only yesterday the following article appeared:-

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050901/sc_nm/walking_dc;_ylt=Altx2U1PzNDp5gfMCV.LXxIhANEA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Now if I could see concrete evidence of such things I very well may become a naturalist, but until then evolution starting from abiogenesis requires as much faith as the creation of mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, etc. by a deity.


The law of conservation of matter states that matter can be changed, but it cannot be created nor destroyed.

There is no such law. Matter and energy are interchangable - e=mc2 remember (or is that one not accepted by your faith?)

<snip>

And here we are again.
The main difference between science and pseudo-science is that science collects facts, evaluates them and draws conclusion.
Please show me one fact, one proof, one instance which would allow the conclusion that there is one intelligent being somewhere that is or was meddling with natural phenomena on this planet.

Please keep in mind that evolution, just like gravity, is a theory. It cannot be proven, but it can be disproven. If there is one piece of evidence against it, the theory will have to be either discarded or reviewed. however, so far all evidence supports the evolution theory. Please bring up evidence that supports intelligent design?

Hey Cabra West, I nicked your post. Sorry, but I needed to make a sensible argument, and I couldn't do it as eloquently as you do above.

Here's where I put it: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9565877&posted=1#post9565877

Hey Cabra West, I nicked your post. Sorry, but I needed to make a sensible argument, and I couldn't do it as eloquently as you do above.

Here's where I put it: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9565877&posted=1#post9565877

No problem :D
I didn't want to get involved in both, as it is a bit confusing debatting the same issue in two different threads simultaneously.

No problem :D
I didn't want to get involved in both, as it is a bit confusing debatting the same issue in two different threads simultaneously.
No question about it. I've stayed out of this one for just that reason :p
Thanks for lending me your argument though :D

That article was interesting to read - and just described what I have experienced first hand on my many stays and visits to the States.

First thing that came to my mind was:

"It's calling out to idiot America." Greenday, American Idiot

Then again, a stupid people is easier to manipulate and lead than a smart, educated, thinking, and outspoken society.
The argument "I don't need to know this 'cause it doesn't help me in my job" is leading down a slippery slope. It breeds ignorance, misunderstanding, and worse, credulity.

Anyway, I try to be patient and to not frown upon idiots. Then again, idiocy mixed with arrogance is sometimes hard to cope with - guess that Dr. Jon D. Miller is already beyond the disbelieving headshaking.

It is sad seeing the way the policies are being formed in the US. Although it does indirectly help my home country India, I cannot help but feel sad about the trend here.

You can certainly feel less sad when you start getting bigger paychecks because of the dogma being thrown about. ;)


Oh yeah. Just how space constraints led to JIT and Kanban pull system in Japan, the resource constraints in countries like Russia and India will lead to innovative systems in service industry.


Hmmm, given the way things are done in the US, doesn't that mean that they are in a period which encourages stagnation?


Yes. The competition is unbelievable. I had to ward off around 100,000 candidates to get admission for my undergrad. Also the standards are a bit tough. I had a hard time in my undergrad in India, but I breezed through my Postgrad in the US (comparable schools).


Which is why Indian grads are so sought after nowadays by IT and engineering firms. Although I've heard that Indian lecturers are particularly nasty to their students to set even more stringent standards. Can you confirm?


Btw, did you catch Charlie Rose's interview of Friedman and the discussion of his book "The Flat Earth" on PBS yesterday night? Have you read the book?

Mmm, no. I don't think I saw it. Was it as the title says or is it just a metaphor?

Hmmm, given the way things are done in the US, doesn't that mean that they are in a period which encourages stagnation?


I guess you can say that. This creationism in school thing is another nail in the coffin of American competitiveness. But the US always had "fresh blood" (immigrants) injected to make up for any domestic shortcomings in competitveness. But a combination of local shortcomings and immigrants stopping to come here would be too bad for the US. Although the situation is not that bad now, I can sense that this is where things are headed. In my college days in India, going to the US was the ultimate goal of all my batch mates. Out of 120 students in my branch, almost 100 came to the US eventually. It's been some years now and some have gone back leaving better paying jobs here. Many are thinking of going back. There was even a job fair a year back for people who wanted to go back to India. Apparently some companies wanted to retain their staff and use them in their Indian operations.

In subsequent batches, less and less people aspire to come here. My younger cousin, who studies in the same college in India, says that he does not want to come to US even though he had a job prospect here. He says that, in his field, cutting edge work is done in India itself and he prefers to be there where it is happening. This is something unheard of in the past. The cutting edge was always in the US and bright people flocked to the US to work in that environment.

Reg, schools, the kind of environment in schools in the US today simply does not compare with Indian schools. In the US there is a portrayal of good science students as geeks/nerds and the peer pressure to conform to socially accepted and encouraged behavior like dating, partying, cheerleading and proms etc. I dunno if you know this or not, there is no such thing as cheerleading in Indian schools and we don't have Proms either. We simply study, study and study more and maybe watch some cricket or escapist bollywood musicals for relaxation :D


Which is why Indian grads are so sought after nowadays by IT and engineering firms. Although I've heard that Indian lecturers are particularly nasty to their students to set even more stringent standards. Can you confirm?

It depends on who the student is. For an American student, Indian college professors would be like Hitler and Stalin rolled into one. :D For me, it was part of the socio-cultural milieu that I grew up in. So it was not a big deal. Lecturers are strict. Not much freedom in class rooms like in the US. Once I got sent out of the class for chewing gum. Considering how boring the class was, I actually was relieved at that ;)


Mmm, no. I don't think I saw it. Was it as the title says or is it just a metaphor?

It is a metaphor. Flat earth = level playing field. I just got through some pages and it is great thus far. Friedman knows his stuff.