NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4201480.stm

Well, we may never know until they drain the city. That could be weeks, if not months away.

But would they rebuild it? Almost the entire city is beneath water. It would seem futile to try and rebuild after they count the bodies and hope the water retreats.

Why did not they evacuete the city and organize transport..
Once again the US goverment does npt give a shit abouts its poor..
And from what I saw all the people left in New orleans were black and latino, not a white face.. Except for the rescue people...
Poor basterds..
I was to New Orleans once, beatiful, but i stayed at the mariot hotel, so i dont nkow what the ral city is like. I want to the zoo, and the frenc quarter..
The tragedi here is that those deaths could have been avoided, but the US goverment, just didnt give a fuck about peoples lives :(

But would they rebuild it? Almost the entire city is beneath water. It would seem futile to try and rebuild after they count the bodies and hope the water retreats.
It will be rebuilt.

Well, we may never know until they drain the city. That could be weeks, if not months away.
And one wonders, why don't people don't evacuate when given fair warning? After riding out Frederick, I would never hesitate to leave my house behind.

And I really feel for the survivors. Wind damage is awful, but you can go back and start doing something. Clean up debris, sort out good from bad... But the water that is in New Orleans just makes the recovery look hopeless. There's nothing that can be done until the water is pumped and the levees made watertight again.

Yeesh, this is exactly what everyone hoped and/or prayed wouldn't happen.

Why did not they evacuete the city and organize transport..
Once again the US goverment does npt give a shit abouts its poor..
And from what I saw all the people left in New orleans were black and latino, not a white face.. Except for the rescue people...
Poor basterds..
I was to New Orleans once, beatiful, but i stayed at the mariot hotel, so i dont nkow what the ral city is like. I want to the zoo, and the frenc quarter..
The tragedi here is that those deaths could have been avoided, but the US goverment, just didnt give a fuck about peoples lives :(
1. learn how to spell
2. i cant understand how race was involved in what you said.. seriously.. what the fuck.

Why did not they evacuete the city and organize transport..
Once again the US goverment does npt give a shit abouts its poor..
And from what I saw all the people left in New orleans were black and latino, not a white face.. Except for the rescue people...
Poor basterds..
I was to New Orleans once, beatiful, but i stayed at the mariot hotel, so i dont nkow what the ral city is like. I want to the zoo, and the frenc quarter..
The tragedi here is that those deaths could have been avoided, but the US goverment, just didnt give a fuck about peoples lives :(


First off, evacuating 484,674 people (http://neworleans.areaconnect.com/statistics.htm) would probably be impossible from a logistics point of view. Also, before you start hurling Race comments arround, do a tiny wheeny bit of research. I just googled "Population of New Orleans" and found out that nearly 70% of its population are Black or African American, Asian or from not described as White America.
Second off, even though I'm not even remotely effected by the Hurricane, I don't appreciate you throwing accusations arround about the US Government. I may not like Bush and his administration for a number of reasons, but this is not the place to voice your concerns and criticisms, this is a time to console the families and friends of those effected by Katrina.
Finnaly, people would take your opinion more seriously if you took the time to spell check your posts. I dont see an excuse for such widespread bad spelling (and foul pointless swearing for that matter), if you have a learning difficulty, I'm sorry but use Firefox and the Spellchecker addition will help you. If your foreign, use a translater, it might not be perfect but it is better than not seeing a reason.

But would they rebuild it? Almost the entire city is beneath water. It would seem futile to try and rebuild after they count the bodies and hope the water retreats.
Sacramento flooded twice and they rebuilt it each time. Well, the second time they just built another city on top of it. Rebuilding after a flood isn't fuitile (unless you built your city on a flood plain, then build on top....stupid city...)

The tragedi here is that those deaths could have been avoided, but the US goverment, just didnt give a fuck about peoples lives :(

Explain.

I can only imagine the suffering going on right now in the Gulf. I haven't quite been myself since I read the newspaper this morning.

Sacramento flooded twice and they rebuilt it each time. Well, the second time they just built another city on top of it. Rebuilding after a flood isn't fuitile (unless you built your city on a flood plain, then build on top....stupid city...)


Wouldn't it make more sense to build it again, but away from the flood basin? As I understand it New Orleans is 5 metres below sea level, so every time it floods the water simply won't drain away.

Mind you, I have the same argument with Floridians continuing to build wooden houses in a Hurrican zone, it just seems semi-futile to me.

Hahahahaha, I dont see where people get off blaming the government, When you live in a city constantly threatened by tropical storms and natural disaster you have to kind of expect that you will have trouble. Why not get off your lazy arse and evacuate when you hear the storm MAY be approaching new orleans which they knew about 2 days before. It is definitley a sad situation and my heart goes out to anyone effected by the storm.

My Husband and I wondered aloud this morning how long it would take for some to blame this on the Bush Administration or the US government.

Yeah, our governement is so powerful they were able to force people to live in New Orleans, "make" this natural disaster happen, and ensure they did not evacuate. Oh, oh yeah, they forced minorities to "choose" this city.

Shut up already. New Orleans and it's people are one of the best cities this country has. It ranks up there with NYC. Both are national treasures.

1. learn how to spell
2. i cant understand how race was involved in what you said.. seriously.. what the fuck.

Hey, give him a break, it's pretty obvious English is not his mother language.

Hey, give him a break, it's pretty obvious English is not his mother language.
when he goes and blames the government of being at fault and also being racist it pisses me off and i dont even like the gov. so i will not.

when he goes and blames the government of being at fault and also being racist it pisses me off and i dont even like the gov. so i will not.

I just meant about his spelling. ;)

It will be rebuilt.

Better rebuild on piles this time. Chicago had the good sense to elevate itself to account for chaging water levels. New Orleans should do the same.

Oh yeah, Bush woke up one morning, decided to use his magic to make a Category 3-5 hurricane, and send it to Louisiana.

Now tell me, how long to you think it would take to evacuate a city of .5 million? The roads were so clogged up, it was essentially impossible to get in or out. Once the hurricane hit, power was knocked out for miles around, water was 18 to 25 feet deep, and bridges were damaged.

Using your logic, I'm going to try and evacuate the city.

1. Send trucks to pick up people who are in 20ft deep water (your truck has 2 feet of ground clearance) and are several hundred yards away. I know, I'll drive the truck to them. Oops! It sunk. Now there's several more people drowned, and a ton of supplies in the polluted water. Great job, dumbfuck...

2. Let's try and cross the bridge in a 40k pound truck. Oh no, the bridge has been damaged! Smash! It collapsed, killing 7 and wounding 13 more! Plus, the truck exploded! Great job, dumbfuck...

3. Let's send in a pair of choppers! Oh crap, one of them accidentally crashed into a building because of strong winds. Oh crap again, some civillian who was looting a gun store fired off several rounds, damaging the engine. We have to get out of here! Great job, dumbfuck...

4. Let's send boats. Just fucking great, one of them ran over a couple who were swimming to shore! Just fucking great again, another one hit a piece of metal underwater and sunk! Great job, dumbfuck...


They're doing they best they can, try and support them.

You Americans have a history of rebuilding. You rebuild all the places detroyed by hurricanes and tornados every year, right in the place you call tornado alley. You rebuild places that are below sea level or on a floodplain when they flood - you rebuilt San Francisco, even though its still on the damn fault line that destroyed it last time. It all seems a bit of a waste to me.
Then again, where else can you go, most of your country seems to be in the path of some natural disaster, or else has a less-than-hospitable climate. :D

---------------------------

My thoughts to those who have lost freinds and loved ones in this disaster.

I have a question,how long is it going to take to drain New Orleans?,because nothing can be done until the water is drained. The only thing they can do is rescue whatever people are left, no taking out the dead, can you imagine hundreds or probably thousands of dead bodies after even a few days? The system they had in place to drain the water into Lake Pontchartrain is the one that was overwhelmed,as least from what i heard in the news. Do they have any other systems in place?

I have a question,how long is it going to take to drain New Orleans?,because nothing can be done until the water is drained. The only thing they can do is rescue whatever people are left, no taking out the dead, can you imagine hundreds or probably thousands of dead bodies after even a few days? The system they had in place to drain the water into Lake Pontchartrain is the one that was overwhelmed,as least from what i heard in the news. Do they have any other systems in place?


It looks as though it may take a month to drain the city.

You Americans have a history of rebuilding. You rebuild all the places detroyed by hurricanes and tornados every year, right in the place you call tornado alley. You rebuild places that are below sea level or on a floodplain when they flood - you rebuilt San Francisco, even though its still on the damn fault line that destroyed it last time. It all seems a bit of a waste to me.
Then again, where else can you go, most of your country seems to be in the path of some natural disaster, or else has a less-than-hospitable climate. :D

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My thoughts to those who have lost freinds and loved ones in this disaster.

Seem that way, doesn't it?
New Orleans is at far too valuable a location to abandon - the mouth of the Mississippi River. San Francisco is in an equally important location.
And you do realise Tornado Alley covers several large states (an area roughly equal to western Europe), don't you?

And you do realise Tornado Alley covers several large states (an area roughly equal to western Europe), don't you?
Well, do we really need Kansas? ;)

You guys hear how bad the looting has been? I've -heard- a load of New Orleans...ians were going to raid a children's hospital to steal the drugs.

That may be a rumor, but it IS pretty bad...They've had to pull cops off rescue duty to stop looters.

You Americans have a history of rebuilding. You rebuild all the places detroyed by hurricanes and tornados every year, right in the place you call tornado alley. You rebuild places that are below sea level or on a floodplain when they flood - you rebuilt San Francisco, even though its still on the damn fault line that destroyed it last time. It all seems a bit of a waste to me.
Then again, where else can you go, most of your country seems to be in the path of some natural disaster, or else has a less-than-hospitable climate. :D

---------------------------

My thoughts to those who have lost freinds and loved ones in this disaster.
I live in tornodo alley, there is really not all that damage caused by tornados every year. I mean, yes there are deaths and some property damage, but an awful lot more people are killed in burning houses from electrical promlems then by tornados. And anyway, i dont think they would ever decide to evacuate all of the middle of the country. But i definitley see where you are going. The New Orleans thing is questionable though, leave it to the French to build a city beneath sea level.

It will be rebuilt.

no, actually they probably won't, it would practically be economic suicide, and we're already facing economic death due to critical refined oil shortages that will only get worse.

IMO the better move would be to shift the economic activities ovet to Houston, it already has most of the necesary facilities and is only a short jaunt from the Mississippi, which while inconvenient,is only a mild problem when faced against blocking the levy breech, restoring electrical power, pumpong the water out and then rebuilding. The problem is that while any two of the three problems (brocken levy, flooding and electrical blackout) would be easily surmountable, combined its a very formiddable problem. Filling the levy gap in its self will be a major undertaking, and the more people wait to do it, the less feasible it becomes, I fear that its already been to long and the levy will have to be tottally rebuilt to be any good at all, otherwise it will just break again, infact, it might still break again anyway. The flood waters need to be pumped out, and not just that, something needs to be doen with them. that water is VILE, bourbon street alone is enough to turn any water deadly and add to that a mix of refined and unrefined fuel, the chemicals that go into refining oil and various other chemicals, I'm surprised anyone who was walking through the flooded areas can still stand. And even without the ecologic disaster problem, getting all that water out will be a huge problem without electricty, but getting the powergrid back on is impossible until the flood water is drained. all in all a handy problem faced by a country about to face the most serious oil shortage since OPEC cut us off that one time.

Oh yes, and to the guy that said we weren't evacuating everyone. Millions of people got out of those couple states. The residents of New Orleans were told there was a mandatory evacuation. The people left either couldn't find a way out of there, but a lot of them just thought they would be fine. The busses were getting everyone out of there they could, but those people were given over a day's notice to leave. You just can't blame the government for not clearing out an entire city on their own in about a day. And in regard to the white/hispanic/black people left, as someone already said, the majority of the people that live there are black. It just ended up being that most the people left in New Orleans were black.

no, actually they probably won't, it would practically be economic suicide, and we're already facing economic death due to critical refined oil shortages that will only get worse.

It's practically inevitable that there's going to be a city at the mouth of the Mississippi River. Theh location's too valuable to be left alone. Trust me, someone will rebuild it.

Also, i think they will rebuild. They said on the news that the water wasn't going to go up much more. The Army Corps of Engineers will have the water situation under control relatively soon. And as long as they don't have something else happen to fill the city back up, it will just take a couple weeks to maybe a couple months for the water to get out of there. People are going to go back to their homes. New Orleans is not going to become a giant rotting ghost town. They have some spirit down there and I am sure it is just going to take a while for them to put it all back together.

People are in need, it is time to help, this is a natural disaster.. it's nobodies fault.. maybe not fixing old dams isnt to smart

Here I am in New Orlean, well close.. here in shreveport,La... we need instant oatmeal, alumni serving pans, alumni foil, flip flops all sizes, clorox wipes, air mattresses, prepaid phone cards, underwear, socks all sizes, bra's same, floor fans, box fans, walking canes , 15' extension cords, power strips, female products, microwave at the lsus shreveport gym shelter. Make arrangement call others let them know. thanks! not a joke.

There are other shelters that may need other things, just contact to see how you can help or donate money .. these people will not have homes for a long time or they may be homeless until govt helps them. but for now everyone pull together!.... and stop the blame.. your energy is needed for help.

Grow UP Ya All! Thank you, and life will be better when you adjust your thoughts. :rolleyes:

Well, do we really need Kansas? ;)

Think we need Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Mississippi.
How about Oklahoma City, Dallas/Ft. Worth, and Tulsa - all in bad spots.

map of Tornado Alley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tornado_Alley.jpg)

Erratic Behavior, thanks.

Really, almost nobody is to blame. You can't blame the citizens who stayed behind because they didn't have enough money to get out. You can't blame the city authorities because the city had less than a day to evacuate a million people. You can't blame the Louisiana National Guard's response because half of them are over in Iraq.

And you can't blame the levee designers because New Orleans doesn't have property tax and thus no source of funding for big construction projects. When you realise just how many miles of levees had to be built to protect the city, it's like having to build a great wall of china around New Orleans. And just one or two breaks in the line result in disaster.

The only people I could reasonably assign blame to would be the developers who built houses and buildings on top of swamp land. But otherwise there's no one to blame. This is just an instance of humans getting owned by nature.

Relocate the people, blow the levies and let nature take back the land. Most everything is destroyed anyways.

http://www.newkerala.com/news.php?action=fullnews&id=18715
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1508680/20050831/index.jhtml?headlines=true
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/08/01/india.flood/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6754820/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/12/28/tsunami.deaths/
These Disasters even worse which were not flashed so much like the New orleans......Its sad to be a poor country.Each and every Life should be Important.

Transplant all the people to Iraqu, or Alaska...I could use some target practice

Nations all over the world provided over USD 3 billion in aid for damaged regions, with the Australian Government pledging USD 819.9 million ,the German Government offering USD 660 million, the Japanese Government offering USD 500 million, the Canadian Government offering CAD 425 million, the U.S. Government offering USD 350 million, and the World Bank offering USD 250 million. Officials estimate that billions of dollars will be needed. In mid-March, the Asian Development Bank reported that over USD 4 billion in aid promised by government was behind schedule. Sri Lanka reported that it had received no foreign government aid, while foreign individuals had been generous [63].

Wow I appreaciate The Australian Gov.....really....and Japanese Though its such a small Country it has great Heart....Hats off

-snip-


I mean, if you're REALLY looking for people to blame ... blame the French for founding NO, or the Dutch for setting a precedent.

Of course they will rebuild it. Afterwards they would build a monument in remembrance of the victims and call the rebuilding another triumph of man over nature... people can be so stupid!

New Orleans has great culture and great people, and is an economically important location, however if there are large scale natural disasters in a particular region every other year, claiming some lives and making billions in damages, you have to ask is it worth it to build and rebuild there disaster after disaster? If you view it from an economic point-of-view, just calculate how much it will cost to build and rebuild along with the cost of damages, compare it with the yield of profit from it's economically important location at the mouth of the Mississippi river, if it's greater, then continue to build and rebuild, otherwise move. Then if you view it from the point-of-view of the number of lives claimed by the natural disasters, and I would guess lives are priceless, then it isn't worth it. Of course I would think if you live in a region called "natural disaster alley", and you decide to live there by your own choice, you are basically gambling your life and asking for troubles to befall upon you. There are more stupid things we do simply because we treasure money more than we treasure even our own lives. Japan has its capital next to a volcano which had erupted several times in history, not to mention earthquakes every now and then, and that much of it are built upon reclaimed land! Seriously, building a metropolis and naming it capital of a nation of millions next to a volcano, and then there isn't enough land so you decide to bring dirt over and fill the sea and then build more tall buildings upon them. How much more stupid can you get? Venice, city of canals, who got the idea that we should build our houses half submerged in water? The culture no doubt is unique and fascinating, but that is simply waiting for trouble. If the waters recede, you'll complain the city of canals is turning into a regular city and loosing it's charms, if the water level rises, you'll complain the city is being flooded and by 20XX the whole city will be submerged in water, and then they'll probably think of ways like putting up levees... another case of human stupidity. There are plenty of safe spots on Earth. But I guess building cities next to disaster prone coastal areas for money is much more important than our lives.

Also when you build houses in disaster-prone areas, you should build them with preventions. Earthquake proof design able to withstand up to a specified level on the Richter scale, geometries better suited to withstand hurricanes. You put a house of timber or small bricks in a non-aerodynamic rectangular shape, and you put the tall side up (height greater than length or width), facing the wind, it can do no more but to merely act as a fancy umbrella shielding you from rain, snow and sunlight. What do you expect your below sea level house to look like after a 280 km/h hurricane? Frankly if it's not the space shuttle, a jet or a formula one race car, I wouldn't want to be in or near a 280 km/h anything.

All this rant is for nothing, when the sun rises tomorrow, they'll probably begin rebuilding, develop better warning systems, make a special task force in the homeland security specially designed for rescue missions for natural disasters, higher thicker levees maybe. It's all about man overcoming nature and molding the Earth to our liking. Then Greenpeace comes and tells us to protect rainforests in Brazil, what a paradox...

Condolences to the victims, no matter how much I disagree with something or someone, loss of life is still loss of life.


-the Community of Espes-

It puts me in mind of Expo 1992 in Seville, Spain. The entire site was built on a man-made island in the middle of the Guadalquivir River. One of the pavilions was designed as a giant hole with an elevator platform, you stood on the platform and the whole thing began to descend underground, and there were hundreds of video screens all around as you descended showing various things of interest and in theme with the fair.

Now, let's go back to the site. A man-made island in the middle of the river.

As you might expect, they dug the hole, and it filled up with water.

Which pavilion was this masterpiece? France's pavilion.

Sacramento flooded twice and they rebuilt it each time. Well, the second time they just built another city on top of it. Rebuilding after a flood isn't fuitile (unless you built your city on a flood plain, then build on top....stupid city...)

Listen, lad. I've built this kingdom up from nothing.
When I started here, all there was was swamp. The king said I was
daft to build a castle in a swamp, but I built it all the same,
just to show 'em. It sank into the swamp. So, I built a second
one. That sank into the swamp. So I built a third one. That
burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. But the fourth
one stayed up. An' that's what your gonna get, lad -- the strongest
castle in these islands.

http://www.rit.edu/~smo4215/monty.htm#Scene%2014

All these people are dieing so what do the government do?

They use the police to protect PROPERTY from looting!!!!

Surely they should be helping rescue and evacuation, scndalous use of resources, who cares about the property which will probably be ruined anyway!

... however if there are large scale natural disasters in a particular region every other year, claiming some lives and making billions in damages, you have to ask is it worth it to build and rebuild there disaster after disaster? ...


As I understood it, New Orleans WASN'T in a hurricane-prone area, which is why this whole disaster was so surprising. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the first time the city's ever flooded or sustained so much damage?

As I understood it, New Orleans WASN'T in a hurricane-prone area, which is why this whole disaster was so surprising. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the first time the city's ever flooded or sustained so much damage?

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pastcost.shtml
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pastint.shtml

if the news reports i read were correct, this should end up number one on the costliest scale and number three on the strongest scale. this is because they do not measure intensity by wind speed but by central minimum pressure; although katrina was only a strong cat 4, it hit somewhere close to 910 mb. i think.

new orleans has been hit a few times, just never this badly. the systems that were in place were designed to handle heavy category three storms and weak category four storms at the very most.

this was a very strong category four, nearly a five.

now, you may say "why didn't they build to withstand a category five". well, only three category fives have ever actually hit the mainland united states. however, two out of three hit louisiana.

my only possible explanation is that it would have cost too much.

furthermore, this was not as unexpected as the media would have you believe. they've been running computer simulations for years. the people who were in charge here weren't operating with an "if" mindset as much as a "when" mindset.

the people who were in charge here weren't operating with an "if" mindset as much as a "when" mindset.

Yikes. Sometimes things make me sad to be human. I think that's one of them.

As I understood it, New Orleans WASN'T in a hurricane-prone area, which is why this whole disaster was so surprising. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the first time the city's ever flooded or sustained so much damage?

actually, this one's better:

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/paststate.shtml

this is from 1851-2004, so it doesn't include this year.

all hurricanes:

florida: 110
texas: 59
louisiana: 49
north carolina: 46
south carolina: 31
alabama: 22
georgia: 20
mississippi: 15
virginia: 12
new york: 12
massachusetts: 10
connecticut: 10
rhode island: 9
maine: 6
maryland: 2
new hampshire: 2
delaware: 2
new jersey: 2
pennsylvania: 1

major hurricanes (3-5):

florida: 35
texas: 19
louisiana: 18
north carolina: 12
miss.: 8
ala. : 6
south carolina: 6
new york: 5
the rest: less than 5

Yikes. Sometimes things make me sad to be human. I think that's one of them.

what could they have really done? evacuatre the city thirty, fourty, fifty years ago? build fifty foot walls?

it's one thing to know that a city is eventually doomed. it's another to be able to do anything about it.

we'll probably be having this discussion about los angeles one day. it's not a matter of if a crazy earthquake is going to hit. it's a question of when. everybody knows it's going to happen, there's still, what, 12 million people living there? how many on the entire coast? 50 million? 100 million? what can possibly be done besides start evacuating tommorrow? what are the chances that's going to happen?

we'll look back and say "we knew this was going to happen and didn't do anything." what are we going to do?

Explain.

They did not have a evacuation, they just told people to get in their cars and drive...
But the poor people didnt have cars, and are screwed

Did you know that black people loot and white people find? Yahoo News thinks so.

I can't find the site anymore, but I have the articles back home. I can link it later if you don't believe me.

There were two stories about New Orleans. In the first one there was a picture of two (if I remember correctly) black women carrying some stuff in chest deep water. The text beneath it informed us that they had stolen those items from a shop. On the second one there was an almost similar picture; a man and a woman (white) were carrying stuff in chest deep water. The text informed us that they had managed to find some necessary items from the shops...

Did you know that black people loot and white people find? Yahoo News thinks so.

I can't find the site anymore, but I have the articles back home. I can link it later if you don't believe me.

There were two stories about New Orleans. In the first one there was a picture of two (if I remember correctly) black women carrying some stuff in chest deep water. The text beneath it informed us that they had stolen those items from a shop. On the second one there was an almost similar picture; a man and a woman (white) were carrying stuff in chest deep water. The text informed us that they had managed to find some necessary items from the shops...

This is the subject of a thread that was merged yesterday. A very heated thread.

One thing I found interesting was a photo of a black woman, walking chest deep in filthy water and the caption described her as being "on her way to loot" a grocery store. They some how predicted her future.

Transplant all the people to Iraqu, or Alaska...I could use some target practice

The Doors Corporation: 3-Day Forumban
Talking about killing those people from Louisiana in target practice is a horrible thing to think about, and I certainly hope you're joking (which would still be wrong). We do NOT tolerate these sort of threats on NationStates.

-snip-

Yeah, I suppose you're right. I live on the coast ... it worries me fairly often. A few years ago, there was a tsunami near where I live. One more year until I can move away :D

There are plenty of other topics on this. Post/read them. This will be locked.