NationStates Jolt Archive

Bush is a great leader, and a genius. France has never helped us before, we pulled them out of two world wars, and they do nothing to repay us.

Lemme post this fun little fact sheet I have.

American casualties:

American Revolution
217,000

War of 1812
286,730

Indian Wars
106,000

Mexican War
78,718

Civil War
2,213,363

Spanish-American War
306,760

World War I
4,734,991

World War II
16,112,566

Korean War
5,720,000

Vietnam War
8,744,000

Gulf War
2,183,000

Total in earlier wars
42,348,460

World Trade Centers alone
2,801

Pentagon, World Trade Centers, and other total
3,030

War on Iraq
2500(estimate)

Total American Population (current)
295,723,104

Meaning that about 0.0000051% of the American Population died in the Iraqi War.

Or, lemme put it to you another way

During January '05 there were 39 Homoside Victums in Detroit. There were 35 American casulities in Iraq. Meaning that, you had a better shot of dieing in Detroit then dieing in Iraq. Doesnt that mean something?

Or how about this

The Odds of winning an Oscar are 1:10,000

There are about 160,000 men in Iraq, and about 1 dies a day. Meaning that, if you were in Iraq, you would have a better shot at winning an Oscar then dieing.

The Iraq war was a good thing. During the war, 2 million people were liberated, 2 million people who were tortored, raped, killed, and beaten. 2 million people who had to suffer through the perils that none of us could even imagine.

And what do we do? We sit around, in our nice comfey computer chairs, sipping our coffie, and go around, blabbing about how Bush is evil, and not even thinking about what the Iraqi people had to go through.

http://www.channel4.com/news/microsites/T/torture/images/pic-2010350.jpg

Could you imagine having those intruments used on your body? Suddamn Hussain used them on his political prisoners every day.

But who cares about that, we lost an American soldier today. So what that we liberated an entire country? We lost a soldier! Burn Bush at the stake!

How about the fact we caught a terrorist, a terrorist who curropted the U.Ns Oil for Food program, causting the U.S and the U.N billions of dollars.

Or the fact that we caught more then 2/3 of Alquida in Iraq, Alquadea, the organisation that attacked America during the horrible 9/11 attacks.

Iraq is good, it was necessary.


P.S Sorry about the Spelling Errors ;)

Bush is a great leader, and a genius.

Ow, so sorry, but here's a copy of our home game. Thanks for playing!

Oh, and as for, "Could you imagine having those intruments used on your body? Suddamn Hussain used them on his political prisoners every day," apparently, we can, as Abu Ghraib shows.

I agree. I don't support this war just on the sole premise I'm an America-Firster, but, since we're in it, let's do this full-out and be done with it.

But 2,500 troops? That's nothing to what we could be losing were this a real war... They have democracy now, they have some freedoms now (that they'll hopefully fight to keep). I mean, people were genuinely happy to be able to vote for the first time, and what do the liberals do?

Bitch and moan and whine.

Like they always do...

It's sad, now the Conversatives are the optimistic ones...

(Oh, and I understand that my three comments above were very generalized and just meant to be nasty but... every stereotype is based in truth).

I agree. I don't support this war just on the sole premise I'm an America-Firster, but, since we're in it, let's do this full-out and be done with it.

But 2,500 troops? That's nothing to what we could be losing were this a real war... They have democracy now, they have some freedoms now (that they'll hopefully fight to keep). I mean, people were genuinely happy to be able to vote for the first time, and what do the liberals do?

Bitch and moan and whine.

Like they always do...

It's sad, now the Conversatives are the optimistic ones...

(Oh, and I understand that my three comments above were very generalized and just meant to be nasty but... every stereotype is based in truth).

So, low death rates equals a good, justified war? Well, hell, Germany lost next nothing in Poland, go them!

Seeing as they are barely getting a constitution together, I would wait before holding Iraq up as a bastion of happy democracy.

Ow, so sorry, but here's a copy of our home game. Thanks for playing!

Oh, and as for, "Could you imagine having those intruments used on your body? Suddamn Hussain used them on his political prisoners every day," apparently, we can, as Abu Ghraib shows.


Are you serious? That is the most ignornat statment I ever heard. On AbuGhraib people were thrown into naked piles! That was the worse thing they did! Suddam Hussain raped his people, beat them, galuge their eyes out, castrate them, drill holes in their ankles.

Here is actual testomony from a Suddam Hussain victum

"Under Saddam, there were no rights of appeal," Kardom said. "I begged them to stop as they beat me. It only inspired them to beat me harder."

And you think thats worse then being thrown into a naked pile!?!?!?!

That is by far the most ignornant statment I have ever heard.

Erm, France fought on the same side in the American Revolution, the 1812 war, the Korean War, initially in Vietnam (from end of WW2 to 1965, when the US took over formally), Iraq in 1991, Kosovo 1999, and probably several other conflicts I cannot immediately name. France even fought alongside Israel against the Egyptians in 1956, until the US told them to stop, because it was too scared the USSR would nuke them in revenge. :rolleyes:

So, uh, learn some history.

Ow, so sorry, but here's a copy of our home game. Thanks for playing!

Oh, and as for, "Could you imagine having those intruments used on your body? Suddamn Hussain used them on his political prisoners every day," apparently, we can, as Abu Ghraib shows.

So, the worst (or even average) torture under Saddam's regime was having your genitals pointed at and photographed?

I doubt it.

So, low death rates equals a good, justified war? Well, hell, Germany lost next nothing in Poland, go them!

Seeing as they are barely getting a constitution together, I would wait before holding Iraq up as a bastion of happy democracy.

It's not the best, happy democracy yet, but it's a start...

Can't I at least say that I really do hope Bush does a good job in Iraq, and that Iraq turns out to be a great Democracy?

Or is that just too optimistic?

And, get out of the past. Who cares if it's justified or not (at this point). We're in it, stop complaining (not necessarily to you, but just to most liberals) about how it's a unjustified war. We're in it. We're in it for keeps. We can't lose this one, so at least root for our side.

Are you serious? That is the most ignornat statment I ever heard. On AbuGhraib people were thrown into naked piles! That was the worse thing they did! Suddam Hussain raped his people, beat them, galuge their eyes out, castrate them, drill holes in their ankles.

Here is actual testomony from a Suddam Hussain victum

"Under Saddam, there were no rights of appeal," Kardom said. "I begged them to stop as they beat me. It only inspired them to beat me harder."

And you think thats worse then being thrown into a naked pile!?!?!?!

That is by far the most ignornant statment I have ever heard.
Actually, there was a rape at Abu Graib, and at least a couple of murders, where people were beaten to death. Several fatal beatings of prisoners have come to light in Afghanistan too.

Bush is a great leader, and a genius. France has never helped us before, we pulled them out of two world wars, and they do nothing to repay us.

Lemme post this fun little fact sheet I have.

American casualties:

American Revolution
217,000

War of 1812
286,730

Indian Wars
106,000

Mexican War
78,718

Civil War
2,213,363

Spanish-American War
306,760

World War I
4,734,991

World War II
16,112,566

Korean War
5,720,000

Vietnam War
8,744,000

Gulf War
2,183,000

Total in earlier wars
42,348,460

World Trade Centers alone
2,801

Pentagon, World Trade Centers, and other total
3,030

War on Iraq
2500(estimate)

Total American Population (current)
295,723,104

Meaning that about 0.0000051% of the American Population died in the Iraqi War.

Or, lemme put it to you another way

During January '05 there were 39 Homoside Victums in Detroit. There were 35 American casulities in Iraq. Meaning that, you had a better shot of dieing in Detroit then dieing in Iraq. Doesnt that mean something?

Or how about this

The Odds of winning an Oscar are 1:10,000

There are about 160,000 men in Iraq, and about 1 dies a day. Meaning that, if you were in Iraq, you would have a better shot at winning an Oscar then dieing.

The Iraq war was a good thing. During the war, 2 million people were liberated, 2 million people who were tortored, raped, killed, and beaten. 2 million people who had to suffer through the perils that none of us could even imagine.

And what do we do? We sit around, in our nice comfey computer chairs, sipping our coffie, and go around, blabbing about how Bush is evil, and not even thinking about what the Iraqi people had to go through.

http://www.channel4.com/news/microsites/T/torture/images/pic-2010350.jpg

Could you imagine having those intruments used on your body? Suddamn Hussain used them on his political prisoners every day.

But who cares about that, we lost an American soldier today. So what that we liberated an entire country? We lost a soldier! Burn Bush at the stake!

How about the fact we caught a terrorist, a terrorist who curropted the U.Ns Oil for Food program, causting the U.S and the U.N billions of dollars.

Or the fact that we caught more then 2/3 of Alquida in Iraq, Alquadea, the organisation that attacked America during the horrible 9/11 attacks.

Iraq is good, it was necessary.


P.S Sorry about the Spelling Errors ;)

You've got a few facts wrong.

War of 1812-25,000 Casulaties.

Spanish-American War-17,500

Civil War- 650,000

WWI-115,000

WWII-400,000

Korean War-302,000

Vietnam War-1,800,000

Gulf War-472 (175 from Combat)

War in Iraq-1800.

Other then that' you're right.

World War I
4,734,991

World War II
16,112,566

Korean War
5,720,000

Vietnam War
8,744,000


No.

You've got a few facts wrong.

War of 1812-25,000 Casulaties.

Spanish-American War-17,500

Civil War- 650,000

WWI-115,000

WWII-400,000

Korean War-302,000

Vietnam War-1,800,000

Gulf War-472 (175 from Combat)

War in Iraq-1800.

Other then that' you're right.

I think he was refering to everyone's casualities and civilian casualities...

Yes, the US lost 400,000 guys in WWII, but if you add in Germany, Britain, Japan, Italy, andRussia and all of their civilian casualities, I think it can get really up there.

Actually, there was a rape at Abu Graib, and at least a couple of murders, where people were beaten to death. Several fatal beatings of prisoners have come to light in Afghanistan too.

Not what I heard... show me articals...

So, the worst (or even average) torture under Saddam's regime was having your genitals pointed at and photographed?

I doubt it.

Except it has been revealed that those actions ar the tip of the iceberg.

From wikipedia: Sergeant Samuel Provance from Alpha Company 302nd Military Intelligence battalion, in interviews with several news agencies, reported the sexual abuse of a 16-year-old girl by two interrogators, as well as a 16-year-old son of an Iraqi general who was driven through the cold after he had been showered and who was then besmeared with mud in order to get his father to talk. He also pointed out several techniques used by interrogators that have been identified as being in violation of the Geneva Convention. He spoke to the media, even against direct orders, about what he knew about at the prison (largely from conversations and interactions with the interrogators). He explained that he did so because there was "definitely a cover-up" underway by the Army. He was administratively flagged and had his top secret clearance suspended in retaliation by the Army.

According to Rumsfield, there are many more photos and tapes, some of which apparently show guards sodomising prisoners.

I think he was refering to everyone's casualities and civilian casualities...

Yes, the US lost 400,000 guys in WWII, but if you add in Germany, Britain, Japan, Italy, andRussia and all of their civilian casualities, I think it can get really up there.

Even then the numbers are completely wrong, especially for WW2.

Not what I heard... show me articals...
Find them yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

The odds of winning an Oscar are 1:10000

Does that mean 800 000 oscars have been given out?

Sounds suspect to me!

Even then the numbers are completely wrong, especially for WW2.

I've never seen the official figures, so I wouldn't know. I can see that they are grossly out of proportion.

Maybe 1.6 million instead of 16 mil?

Actually, wouldn't it make sense for it to be somewhere like 3 or 4 million total (civilian and solder together)?

Find them yourself.

That is extremely rude. He hasn't seen them, so you should, in terms of fairness and helping your point, and without seeming like a jackass, help him out. Maybe he would change his mind if you were nice.

Capturing 2/3 of AlQeada in Iraq wouldn't have been that difficult, considering they weren't there to begin with.

Where do you get the 2 mill Iraqis being tortured from? If you're going to use statistics, back them up with sources. Otherwise they're meaningless.

As for your stats - true, 35 US soldiers were killed in the same month as 39 people were in Detroit. Does this make Iraq safer than Detroit?
Well, no.
Because how many Americans were in Detroit in January as opposed to the number of Americans in the Iraq frontline? I'm guessing that there was probably a lot more yankees in Detroit than in Iraq during that month, and that the ones in Detroit weren't in full battle gear, nor were in armoured vehicles.

You should always be careful with statistics.

Speaking of stats, care to explain your casualty list? How were there 2,183,000 US casualties in the first gulf war? And 8,744,000 in Vietnam? There weren't that many US soldiers over there! What happened? Did they shoot each other several times? I know the US army has a horrendous rep for 'friendly fire' but really.
Those casualty figures are prob the numbers the US killed or injured, if anything.

Incidently, you can't go from quoting casualty figures which include injuries to just using deaths. There's been 2000 US deaths in Iraq, but something like 15,000 injuries. Likewise, 3000 people died in 9/11, but a helluva lot more were injured.

While there's 140 000 US soldiers stationed in Iraq, less than 1/5 are on active duty. So it's not 1 in 160 000 as you say, but 1 in 25 000. Then there's the chance of being wounded which is 5 - 10 times higher (based on numbers of injuries recorded). Thus around 1 in 2 500 of being killed or wounded.
And that's every day.
Where you got the Oscar figure from is beyond me, but you can't compare the two. Oscars happen once a year, whereas being on patrol is every day. So in one year you would have 365 in 2 500 chances of being killed or wounded., or 1 in 7. Doesn't sound so good now does it?


If using statistics, be consistent please. Otherwise your whole argument just melts away like a snowflake in your hand.


As for France never helping the US, I'd suggest you read up on a little thing America was involved in called 'The American Revolution'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

Hey, I guess he wasn't wrong.

So, low death rates equals a good, justified war? Well, hell, Germany lost next nothing in Poland, go them!

Seeing as they are barely getting a constitution together, I would wait before holding Iraq up as a bastion of happy democracy.


Are you kidding? I'd hold Iraq up as a bastion of happy democracy! I mean I saw three wealthy Iraqis interviewed on fox news saying that they are happy

Prisoner Deaths in US Custody (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/03/16/national/w113007S95.DTL)

Various White House Memos on the use of such tactics. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62516-2004Jun22.html)

Administratioin defends torture, reprinted from Knight Ridder (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0126-06.htm)

Are you kidding? I'd hold Iraq up as a bastion of happy democracy! I mean I saw three wealthy Iraqis interviewed on fox news saying that they are happy

God bless Fox! I can't wait until they move their offices to Iraq in support of these shiny happy people and our leader!

That is extremely rude. He hasn't seen them, so you should, in terms of fairness and helping your point, and without seeming like a jackass, help him out. Maybe he would change his mind if you were nice.
I have been here more than two years, honestly, people don't. I can name maybe a couple of people out of the hundreds I have known, whose minds I have ever changed about something.

And it really is the ultimate test of learning - does an individual, once informed of the existence of evidence which may alter his opinion, make an attempt to seek it out? Those who do, are capable of making an informed change of mind. Those who don't, frankly, it's a waste of effort doing the legwork on their behalf.

It's not the best, happy democracy yet, but it's a start...

Can't I at least say that I really do hope Bush does a good job in Iraq, and that Iraq turns out to be a great Democracy?

Or is that just too optimistic?

And, get out of the past. Who cares if it's justified or not (at this point). We're in it, stop complaining (not necessarily to you, but just to most liberals) about how it's a unjustified war. We're in it. We're in it for keeps. We can't lose this one, so at least root for our side.

"We're in it for keeps"

That's what everyone thought about US and Vietnam... the only reason "we're in it for keeps" is cause foul ignorant beasts won't question the actions of an elitist pig

God bless Fox! I can't wait until they move their offices to Iraq in support of these shiny happy people and our leader!

I think after this noble crusade that Iraqis should have to pay reparations for this war they provoked and the democracy we gave them. I choose oil for reparations, u?

(this is sarcasm in case anyone's missed it!)

I love the name of this forum, like conservatives are disposed to illegal wars and occupations and killing tens of thousands of Iraqi civillians.

If it wasn' for France, there'd be no United States of America!!

I'm sick of this lack of knowledge.
Most of "our ideas" from the Declaration of Independence and Constitution came from France.

Where was the center of the Enlightenment? France.
Montesque, Locke and Rosseau's ideas are the DOI and the Constitution, therefore you owe the French your "natural rights".

Also, the French navy won the damn war. Without the French navy to defend against the British [ the best navy in the world, at the time] we'd still be a colony of Britian [ and don't speculate and assert that we'd get independence without them later... we still needed them in the War of 1812!]

And the only reason for getting involved in the World Wars was solely self interest: WWI: We thought Germany was encouraging Mexico to attack us
WWII: Pearl Harbor.

Get your facts right! :mad:

If it wasn' for France, there'd be no United States of America!!

I'm sick of this lack of knowledge.
Most of "our ideas" from the Declaration of Independence and Constitution came from France.

Where was the center of the Enlightenment? France.
Montesque, Locke and Rosseau's ideas are the DOI and the Constitution, therefore you owe the French your "natural rights".

Also, the French navy won the damn war. Without the French navy to defend against the British [ the best navy in the world, at the time] we'd still be a colony of Britian [ and don't speculate and assert that we'd get independence without them later... we still needed them in the War of 1812!]

And the only reason for getting involved in the World Wars was solely self interest: WWI: We thought Germany was encouraging Mexico to attack us
WWII: Pearl Harbor.

Get your facts right! :mad:

Not too mention that whole heroic French Resistance during WWII.

If it wasn' for France, there'd be no United States of America!!

I'm sick of this lack of knowledge.
Most of "our ideas" from the Declaration of Independence and Constitution came from France.

Where was the center of the Enlightenment? France.
Montesque, Locke and Rosseau's ideas are the DOI and the Constitution, therefore you owe the French your "natural rights".

Also, the French navy won the damn war. Without the French navy to defend against the British [ the best navy in the world, at the time] we'd still be a colony of Britian [ and don't speculate and assert that we'd get independence without them later... we still needed them in the War of 1812!]

And the only reason for getting involved in the World Wars was solely self interest: WWI: We thought Germany was encouraging Mexico to attack us
WWII: Pearl Harbor.

Get your facts right! :mad:


SNAPS, Equality, Liberty and Fraternity unless your a fag

SNAPS, Equality, Liberty and Fraternity unless your a fag

... :headbang:

I am in favor of the way, but I will admit that almost every single number on his first post was wrong. You came up with a total of close to 44,000,000 i think, and i can promise you there has not been that many people in the military throughout all the years of America's independence. I am relatively sure that the gulf war went off with no more than 300 death. Not even near your number of over 2,000,000. Not to sound mean to the creator of this thread, but i would rather you not speak for my conservative viewpoint. I think we are doing the right thing in there, and thay by comparison, we are doing very well against them. And we definitley need to stick the rest of this thing out.

This thread is a giggler, especially the hilarious first post.

*wipes tear from eye* #sniff# Thanks guys :fluffle:

Ibtl

Ibtropa

If it wasn' for France, there'd be no United States of America!!

I'm sick of this lack of knowledge.
Most of "our ideas" from the Declaration of Independence and Constitution came from France.

Where was the center of the Enlightenment? France.
Montesque, Locke and Rosseau's ideas are the DOI and the Constitution, therefore you owe the French your "natural rights".

Also, the French navy won the damn war. Without the French navy to defend against the British [ the best navy in the world, at the time] we'd still be a colony of Britian [ and don't speculate and assert that we'd get independence without them later... we still needed them in the War of 1812!]

And the only reason for getting involved in the World Wars was solely self interest: WWI: We thought Germany was encouraging Mexico to attack us
WWII: Pearl Harbor.

Get your facts right! :mad:

Yup.... We atleast have to thank the french for that, and we repayed those debts several times over. WWI-"Lafeyette we are here" WWII-Normandy Invasion to free France from Germany.

Only fluke I cannot explain is DIen Ben Phu-why Eisenhower did not send aid to help the French when they needed us most. Granted, they're not much of allies but had they crushed the Vietcong the VIetnam war might have never happened....

theories, yep.