NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/30/bush.ap/index.html

Let's see here...World War II was for the very survival of freedom and democracy as we knew it. We fougt enemies that had the resources to wear us down and would stop at nothing to turn America, along with the rest of the free world, into a big, happy totalitarian hellhole run by the likes of Hitler and Tojo. Politics certainly played a back seat to survival in this extremely necessary war.

Now for the other side...the Iraq War was for the survival of...what now? Chaos in the Middle East? Revenge on Saddam? More oil? The hell of it? To make the military a really unappealing career choice? Saddam couldn't have taken America if he wanted to. Saddam couldn't have invaded Antarctica straight-up and won. We all know it. Saddam was contented to sit on his oil, eat Doritos and Quality Street, and live out his life as a brutish, asshole dictator. Now we go into Iraq and end up with someone worse, probably. And for what? So Americans can pay $2.99 a gallon for gas? If I wanted to pay $2.99 a gallon for gas I would move to Canada and start donating to oil companies before this whole mess broke out. Sheeeeeeeeeeesh.

Let's see...to recap, FDR was a visionary who knew the Nazis were a danger and knew the Japanese wanted to kick the shit out of us. He was right, and we ended up kicking the shit out of them. Bush was a puppet for the neocon agenda who wanted to take out Saddam and didn't care how they did it, and Iraq's just as bad off in Saddam's absence. Plus there's that nasty possibility Iraq becomes the next Iran, and with Saudi Arabia going to the fundies soon, we have an unholy triumvirate of nations that want our heads on a stick. Real smart.

Sorry it's so long, but I can never get tired of ranting about what a fucknozzle Bush is. He and his speechwriter should both be given drug tests on a weekly basis.

Agreed, except that FDR was a son of a bitch. Regardless, this is pretty damn ridiculous. I find it funny that Bush is comparing himself to a Democrat.

You want to read some seriously dumb statements? Check out the comments posted by Kecikubia, ARF and Corneliu in their "right to bare arms" defence.

Now now, that's another tale to laugh at another day...I am still sitting in disbelief over this statement. Frankly my dog's more like FDR than Bush is...and frankly I would vote for my dog over Bush any day, provided we're talking about public office. (Think about it - Free Pig Ear Friday and Chew Toy Tuesday...)

Agreed, except that FDR was a son of a bitch. Regardless, this is pretty damn ridiculous. I find it funny that Bush is comparing himself to a Democrat.

Say what you will about FDR, but you're right; this comparison is completely insane. Frankly FDR was a little bit power-drunk, but frankly he had to have been a pretty strong guy to survive polio. (That's another point that divides them...FDR survived polio while Bush survived...a coke addiction? Whoop-dee-damn-snorking-doo.)

All I can say is :rolleyes:

I can almost hear my granddad swearing if he read this. Especially a great uncle who had the pleasure of a running race against German tanks at the Bulge.....

Hey wasn't the Ronald Regan the ship where he said "Mission Acomplished" ?

We fougt enemies that had the resources to wear us down
Um, no. In fact our enemies were extremely resource deficient which is the main reason why Germany did poorly near the end of the war.

Nazi Germany was an equivalent technology entity. Iraq's military was a joke even in 1991.

Um, no. In fact our enemies were extremely resource deficient which is the main reason why Germany did poorly near the end of the war.

I didn't say "take us over." I said "wear us down." Even if they couldn't have done a whole lot of taking over, they could have made our lives a lot worse (like if Germany got the bomb first or if they got control of resources.) So under the conditions they had, Germany and Japan would run out of steam sooner or later, but they could have stayed in business long enough to start a second charge later. We had to wipe them off the face of the Earth. They already had control of big nations, and simply funding pro-West education and encouraging people to turn away from fascism wouldn't have worked. If the U.S. hadn't fought, the Nazis or imperial Japanese might have stayed around longer and caused a lot more damage until someone decided to put them out of their misery.

All I can say is :rolleyes:

I can almost hear my granddad swearing if he read this. Especially a great uncle who had the pleasure of a running race against German tanks at the Bulge.....

Hey wasn't the Ronald Regan the ship where he said "Mission Acomplished" ?Naw--it was the Abraham Lincoln, but you can bet that Rove had that in mind as well. Freeing the slaves, freeing the oil, I mean the Iraqis from their oil, I mean freeing the Iraqis.

Um, no. In fact our enemies were extremely resource deficient which is the main reason why Germany did poorly near the end of the war.

Well he could be right. If the purple code hadn't of been broken and kept secret of the fact, what would the U-Boats have done.....

Um, no. In fact our enemies were extremely resource deficient which is the main reason why Germany did poorly near the end of the war.
Ehhh... you're getting into something of a muddy area here: hindsight is always 20/20. At the time, of course no one had any idea that Germany's oil reserves would run out after a few years of constant warfare. The point he's trying to make is taht we were forced to treat them as resourceful adversaries, which they were.

And by the way, they wouldn't have 'done poorly' at the end of the war if they had managed to win at Stalingrad. If they had, the majority of European Russia might still actually be in German hands.

Germany wasn't resourceful? Maybe not in '44 or '45, but for the 1st 4 years of the war they had all the vast majority of Europe and some parts of Africa for resources. Dozens of countries.


And it's not like they didn't have tanks that could take out a Sherman in 1 or 2 hits and yet survive over 10. Or jet fighters capable of 550mph and armed with 4 30mm cannons, is it?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/30/bush.ap/index.html

Let's see here...World War II was for the very survival of freedom and democracy as we knew it. We fougt enemies that had the resources to wear us down and would stop at nothing to turn America, along with the rest of the free world, into a big, happy totalitarian hellhole run by the likes of Hitler and Tojo. Politics certainly played a back seat to survival in this extremely necessary war.

Now for the other side...the Iraq War was for the survival of...what now? Chaos in the Middle East? Revenge on Saddam? More oil? The hell of it? To make the military a really unappealing career choice? Saddam couldn't have taken America if he wanted to. Saddam couldn't have invaded Antarctica straight-up and won. We all know it. Saddam was contented to sit on his oil, eat Doritos and Quality Street, and live out his life as a brutish, asshole dictator. Now we go into Iraq and end up with someone worse, probably. And for what? So Americans can pay $2.99 a gallon for gas? If I wanted to pay $2.99 a gallon for gas I would move to Canada and start donating to oil companies before this whole mess broke out. Sheeeeeeeeeeesh.

Let's see...to recap, FDR was a visionary who knew the Nazis were a danger and knew the Japanese wanted to kick the shit out of us. He was right, and we ended up kicking the shit out of them. Bush was a puppet for the neocon agenda who wanted to take out Saddam and didn't care how they did it, and Iraq's just as bad off in Saddam's absence. Plus there's that nasty possibility Iraq becomes the next Iran, and with Saudi Arabia going to the fundies soon, we have an unholy triumvirate of nations that want our heads on a stick. Real smart.

Sorry it's so long, but I can never get tired of ranting about what a fucknozzle Bush is. He and his speechwriter should both be given drug tests on a weekly basis.

I don't believe Hitler had plans for a nuclear weapon and a working centrifuge prototype. Granted, we helped give it to them but why shouldn't we try to take it away? Another thing, just because Saddam didn't have a fully functional nuke, it doesn't mean that he wasn't trying and making progress.

My source is "The Bomb in My Garden" by the head of the nuclear program. I haven't read the whole thing yet but it seems interesting.

I don't believe Hitler had plans for a nuclear weapon and a working centrifuge prototype. Granted, we helped give it to them but why shouldn't we try to take it away? Another thing, just because Saddam didn't have a fully functional nuke, it doesn't mean that he wasn't trying and making progress.

My source is "The Bomb in My Garden" by the head of the nuclear program. I haven't read the whole thing yet but it seems interesting.
Hope you're reading it as a piece of sci-fi/fantasy and not as non-fiction. It's closer to the first than the latter.

I don't believe Hitler had plans for a nuclear weapon and a working centrifuge prototype. Granted, we helped give it to them but why shouldn't we try to take it away? Another thing, just because Saddam didn't have a fully functional nuke, it doesn't mean that he wasn't trying and making progress.

My source is "The Bomb in My Garden" by the head of the nuclear program. I haven't read the whole thing yet but it seems interesting.

I don't know if Hitler himself authorized anything like that, but I am pretty sure the Nazis were testing nuclear weaponry through the use of heavy water reactors. Eleven years ago when the Olympics were in Norway, NBC ran some kind of special on some Norwegians who sabotaged the beginnings of a German heavy water bomb; this leads me to believe that the Germans were up to something with regard to nuclear weapons.

As for progress toward a nuke, it's a lot easier to get them now than it was when they were brand new. Hell, Saddam could have bought them from Pakistan if he really wanted them. The fact that he hadn't indicates that he just might have gotten out of the WMD industry after all, and therefore the U.S. should have picked another reason to invade Iraq.

Why..just why?

Does George need a history lesson. 44million ppl...Europe and parts of Japan destroyed. Major persectution.
=same as Iraq?

I think someone wants to go back to the days of Glory...

Bush is such a fucking idiot. WW2 was the most necessary war in the history of all countries involved except Germany and Japan who were the dumbasses that started the whole mess. It was about countries defending their right to exist, people defending their right to be free.
Iraq is like Vietnam. It is of no concern to us and we have no need to be there, it's out of control, we're loosing too many people and getting absolutely nothing out of it, and we're only there because of an asshole of a president who's ego is so big it spills into Canada and Mexico simultaneously.

Saw a WW2 vet on tv talking down about Bush's speech and the war in Iraq in general today. First time I've EVER seen a military man, ESPECIALLY one over the age of 30, saying anything AGAINST this stuff.

Saw a WW2 vet on tv talking down about Bush's speech and the war in Iraq in general today. First time I've EVER seen a military man, ESPECIALLY one over the age of 30, saying anything AGAINST this stuff.
Was it the guy on Fox News? I saw the clip on crooksandliars.com--seems to me that almost every day lately, I see a clip there with some guest on FNC who isn't spouting Republican talking points, and every time the announcer seems caught off guard. Are their screeners having trouble finding people to parrot the company line these days?

Nazi Germany was an equivalent technology entity. Iraq's military was a joke even in 1991.


I wouldnt say a Joke.

At the time, before the invasion of 91, they boasted the fourth largest army in the world.

Now..the tech level of their weapons, and quality of troops werent exactly the greatest, and of course, discipline was something nearly unheard of outside the Republican Guard...or..even within it...

But If sheer numbers count for anything....than I wouldnt call them a joke.

This is right up there in the annals of stupidity with (I believe it was Rumsfeldt's) the comparison of George the younger with Winston Churchill, and of course everysingle time Incurious George has opened his mouth.