NationStates Jolt Archive

Recently I read in Time about some US states wishing to legislate to raise the minimum legal drinking age (to 21).

Then I saw an item on the television news about another gurerilla attack on a US convoy in Iraq.

That had me thinking, does it mean a situation could arise where a young US citizen could fight/die for his/her nation but isn't allowed a drink of alcohol ?!

What makes the notion even more ridculous is that in the military we train young persons to use expensive, complex, equipment and weapons. We only do that because we believe we can entrust them to use it properly. If we're entrusting them to handle tanks (in fact, loaders in tanks are usually the youngest member of the crew) why can't we let them have a little booze?

Just a thought.

Rant over.

Kinda sinister...is there a religious element involved? Like, in Saudi Arabia they are a bit funny about alcohol too.

Recently I read in Time about some US states wishing to legislate to raise the minimum legal drinking age (to 21).

isn't it already 21? I think it should be 25 but thats just me.

Yeah, it's been 21 since the late 70s I think, in all states.

I think it had something to do when the voting age used to be 21. But when it dawned upon everyone that the drafting age was 18, they kind of wondered why were 18 year olds fighting when they didn't even choose their President.

Besides, no one pays attention to the legal drinking age unless you sell alcohol.

Really, I think it should be lowered back to 18, the same should be done in any other nation that has a higher drinking age

it doesnt matter what the drinking age is, they drink anyway. they can get thier hands on all types of alcohol. Will it change anything if they raise the age? not really. they will still drink.

lol in England we can drink when were 16 (I think) tell you what I will have a drink just for you :)

it should seriously be lowered to 14, i spent years drinking little amounts of Alchohol before i chugged a bottle of Vodka and nearly died, THAT changed my perspective on Alcohol, 21 is just rediculous.

lol in England we can drink when were 16 (I think) tell you what I will have a drink just for you :)

no 18, but we all ahem drink when where 16 anyway

Good God, I'm going to America next year. I've been the legal Aussie drinking age for a month now, I'm not going back to sneaking into clubs!

Uh.... yeah... legal drinking age HAS been 21 in the U.S. for a VERY long time.

It gets into the sets of bizarre age laws. Like the fact that you can own a gun at 18 but you can't buy a gun till your 21 heh.

And yes, years ago when I was 19 I had this discussion with a friend about how the military could send me off to shoot someone/be shot at but I couldn't ingest a Smirnoff Ice (or fruity nearly non-alcoholic drink of your choice).

I'm almost surprised they haven't instituted multiple ages for different types of alcohol. The way places like gas stations and resteraunts can serve Beer without needing a high end Liquor License to carry higher proof stuff like Whiskey.

it should seriously be lowered to 14, i spent years drinking little amounts of Alchohol before i chugged a bottle of Vodka and nearly died, THAT changed my perspective on Alcohol, 21 is just rediculous.

i share an experience with you. i drank for a couple years lightly, and then i drank alot of vodka one night for the first time. a night of fun turned into the worst night of my life.

it doesnt matter what the drinking age is, they drink anyway. they can get thier hands on all types of alcohol. Will it change anything if they raise the age? not really. they will still drink.
exactly... personally, i think 18 should be the age... although, i don't drink anyway. i'm straight edge, at least for the time being... either way, it doesn't matter... kids will find a way to drink. but i'll just laugh when i see them get caught... like this: ahahahahaha :D

The age is 18 here and has been for a few years now. There are calls in parlament to put it back up to 20 though, and it's possible it will go before a parlamentary vote after the election. I'll be 20 by the time it goes through and comes into effect though, so I don't care.

I like our Aussie laws where you can smoke as a child but not buy cigarettes or be given cigarettes until you are 18....

I personally don't think there should be a minimum drinking age. It's not like alcohol stops effecting you when you turn 21.

And I think that it's quite pointless and a waste of time to try to raise the national drinking age considering most states set it at 21 as it is. I'm not aware of any state that has it at anything else. It just be like the anti-gay marriage laws in some states, one of those laws with absolutely no intention except to ensure that society stagnates rather than progresses toward being more open-minded.

I wish to God they'd lower the drinking age in states. That way my city wouldn't be invaded by stupid American college students desperate to get drunk every time Oktoberfest rolls around (Kitchener Waterloo, biggest and oldest Oktoberfest outside of München)

Why, oh why must it be the STUPID americans only that invade us each Oktoberfest? I know there's plenty really smart americans (I'm friends with quite a few actually) but we just get the stupid drunken lagerlouts and beerbitches (and the beerbitches are mostly paper-bag material, what gives?)
They always take my seat @ the Huether too, the pasty faced little nimrods.

I want my seat back during Oktoberfest, therefore the US must lower the drinking age.

I once heard a man say that they should get rid of the minimum drinking age, because when he was young it was fun to drink, but now that he's of leagle age it loses it's fun, but he's an alcholholic. He said if they lowered the age it wouldn't be fun anymore and less people would drink. He had a good point, but they have that age because then they feel you are mature enough to drink responsibly. People don't at any age though. They draft at 18 because some young people are stupid enough to want to kill in a war. I personally don't like alchol, it being one of the worst drugs out there. They should illegalize it and legalize marijuana if they want to have two legal drugs on the market. All drugs could be legal if people weren't psychotic on the issue and realized it's other people's choices, but people suck and this is the way the world works.

Heh, the whole idea of setting the age to when people are mature enough to be responsible sure backfigred. Generally if someone's ever gonna be a mature person it'll start long before they turn 21.

I wish to God they'd lower the drinking age in states. That way my city wouldn't be invaded by stupid American college students desperate to get drunk every time Oktoberfest rolls around (Kitchener Waterloo, biggest and oldest Oktoberfest outside of München)

Why, oh why must it be the STUPID americans only that invade us each Oktoberfest? I know there's plenty really smart americans (I'm friends with quite a few actually) but we just get the stupid drunken lagerlouts and beerbitches (and the beerbitches are mostly paper-bag material, what gives?)
They always take my seat @ the Huether too, the pasty faced little nimrods.

I want my seat back during Oktoberfest, therefore the US must lower the drinking age.I find this kinda funny. I live in Canada were the drinking age is 19 and we serve stronger beer. For events like spring break, a bunch of college students come up drink two or three beer then fall on there asses. They can't seem to be able to hold there alcohol as well as highschool students.

Is it illegal for bars to serve alcohol before 5pm? I've seen it mentioned several times on the Simpsons.

What makes the notion even more ridculous is that in the military we train young persons to use expensive, complex, equipment and weapons. We only do that because we believe we can entrust them to use it properly. If we're entrusting them to handle tanks (in fact, loaders in tanks are usually the youngest member of the crew) why can't we let them have a little booze?

Just a thought.

Rant over.

If you knew anything about our military and the basic training that our young people have to go through, then you wouldn't question how we can entrust them with the complex and expensive equipment and weapons. It has everything to do with maturity and discipline. They go through months of sleep deprived military training (brainwashing) before they are entrusted with anything. I know, I joined the Army when I was 18.

Besides the legal drinking age in the United States is 21. The U.S. Congress set the drinking age standard in 1984. Any state that decides to set a lower standard would face a loss of federal highway funds.

I know that all of us that are over 21 and reject the idea of lowering the drinking age sound like hypocrites. Oh well, I'm busted, I'm a hypocrite, but I would rather be a hypocrite than a paraplegic because some young high school or college kid ran into my car after a night of binge drinking.(I know someone it has happend to) Proving that you can handle your liquor doesn't make you an adult, making right choices proves you're an adult.

The fact that generations were going to bars and getting pissed at 18, and then they turn around as adults and raise the drinking age seems a little hypocritical to me.

It's really stupid, it's not like raising the drinking age did anything, people still drink.

I was under the impression that ALL U.S. states had 21 as their legal drinking age, though I haven't looked at the various state drinking laws so I'd only be going by heresay.

So, many U.S. GIs could end up fighting for their country before they're old enough to take a drink.

I find this kinda funny. I live in Canada were the drinking age is 19 and we serve stronger beer. For events like spring break, a bunch of college students come up drink two or three beer then fall on there asses. They can't seem to be able to hold there alcohol as well as highschool students.

Is it illegal for bars to serve alcohol before 5pm? I've seen it mentioned several times on the Simpsons.


I dunno about the 5PM thing...I'm in southern Ontario. Those idjits you describe invading @ spring break are the same idjits stealing my seat during Oktoberfest. They really don't know how to hold their liqour, but that describes Americans in general anyway. Blech, drunk Americans...avoid like the plague if you value your sanity (or don't like being puked on)

Meh...I believe that cracking down on alcohol is a waste of time for American cops, at least on college campuses...what they need to do is 1) Keep it out of the hands of drivers and 2) Keep it out of high schools. A drinking age of 19 might work in this scenario, and I picture cops looking the other way on college students who are under 19 (I pick 19 because it should cover all HS students.) Not that I would mind if they flat-out banned it entirely, since I am a non-drinker and don't really approve too much of drinking, but it's not my decision to make.

Again, just because the legal age is 21 doesn't mean no one's drinking until they're 21.

Hell, I'm 15 and I could very well find myself a drink whenever I wanted to for the past 2 years.

Do I want one? Not really. Actually I'd prefer to go to another country that has stronger beer for my first drinks. So I build up a powerful tolerance level here in the U.S. ;)

Is it illegal for bars to serve alcohol before 5pm? I've seen it mentioned several times on the Simpsons.
Perhaps for different states. In California alcohol is available anytime, anyday.

Yeah, it's been 21 since the late 70s I think, in all states.

Not everywhere, its still 18 in New Orleans

Not everywhere, its still 18 in New Orleans

Not true. Drinking ages are set by states, not cities.

I'm almost surprised they haven't instituted multiple ages for different types of alcohol. The way places like gas stations and resteraunts can serve Beer without needing a high end Liquor License to carry higher proof stuff like Whiskey.

My gods! Isn't there enought buracuracy and complications now?!?! Personally set the Age of Majority to 25 and that's wehn you become an aduly and can legally drink, smoke, drive, vote and be in the military

Recently I read in Time about some US states wishing to legislate to raise the minimum legal drinking age (to 21).

Then I saw an item on the television news about another gurerilla attack on a US convoy in Iraq.

That had me thinking, does it mean a situation could arise where a young US citizen could fight/die for his/her nation but isn't allowed a drink of alcohol ?!

What makes the notion even more ridculous is that in the military we train young persons to use expensive, complex, equipment and weapons. We only do that because we believe we can entrust them to use it properly. If we're entrusting them to handle tanks (in fact, loaders in tanks are usually the youngest member of the crew) why can't we let them have a little booze?

Just a thought.

Rant over.

Really, it has to do with the fact that states don't get highway construction funds from the federal government unless they pass a 21+ drinking age law. But to be fair, the feds did find that if you have a drinking age under 21, the number of drunken driving accidents and collisions increases out of all proportion to the number of new drinkers you have in society. 18-year olds, alcohol, and cars just do not mix well in the aggregate.

Look on the bright side, however: this is one of the few things in life where young people still have to actively problem solve their way around things without relying on their parents to hold their hand and get it for them. In a world where you practically have to wear a safety helmet to masturbate, this is one of the few ways for people to truly bust out of the legal mold and live on the wild side for a while.

In Arkansas they recently raised the legal drinking age to 35, but I think that was just an attempt to keep booze out of the high schools. :D

Recently I read in Time about some US states wishing to legislate to raise the minimum legal drinking age (to 21).

Then I saw an item on the television news about another gurerilla attack on a US convoy in Iraq.

That had me thinking, does it mean a situation could arise where a young US citizen could fight/die for his/her nation but isn't allowed a drink of alcohol ?!

What makes the notion even more ridculous is that in the military we train young persons to use expensive, complex, equipment and weapons. We only do that because we believe we can entrust them to use it properly. If we're entrusting them to handle tanks (in fact, loaders in tanks are usually the youngest member of the crew) why can't we let them have a little booze?

Just a thought.

Rant over.

I though it already was 21? Oh well, maybe just here in California. Should be 25 in my opinion though.

I find this kinda funny. I live in Canada were the drinking age is 19 and we serve stronger beer. For events like spring break, a bunch of college students come up drink two or three beer then fall on there asses. They can't seem to be able to hold there alcohol as well as highschool students.

That's because most of the beer served here is water compared to other places. I saw a commercial once where it rained and the guys thought it was beer. It was for an import beer. ROFL

I was under the impression that ALL U.S. states had 21 as their legal drinking age, though I haven't looked at the various state drinking laws so I'd only be going by heresay.

So, many U.S. GIs could end up fighting for their country before they're old enough to take a drink.

As far as I know, all US states have 21 as their legal drinking age, but not all US territories do. Guam, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands are all US possessions with a drinking age of 18. A federal drinking age law would make it 21 in those countries.

All states are at twenty-one years of age. I can see both sides of the issue and don't know where to draw the line at. They found that when it was at eighteen, drunk driving deaths among teens were at staggering highs. At twenty-one, they were substantially lower. I knew/know of many eighteen year-olds who aren't responsible enough to handle alcohol and many twenty-one year-olds who are the same.

;)

I personally don't think there should be a minimum drinking age. It's not like alcohol stops effecting you when you turn 21.

And I think that it's quite pointless and a waste of time to try to raise the national drinking age considering most states set it at 21 as it is. I'm not aware of any state that has it at anything else. It just be like the anti-gay marriage laws in some states, one of those laws with absolutely no intention except to ensure that society stagnates rather than progresses toward being more open-minded.

Oh yes, making it legal for five year olds to get drunk is real progress.

Oh yes, making it legal for five year olds to get drunk is real progress.In the Uk I can go into the pub with my seven year old son in the pub garden and legally buy him a drink. And I have done so, half a pint of shandy now and again is no great shakes (shandy just in case you don't know is half beer half lemonade).
The UK does have problems with bing drinking, but alot of that is down to high taxes on drink. Drink is no longer a cheep sociable thing to do, if you do it, you take it seriously. Going into town and spending £80 a night it better be!

I personally don't think there should be a minimum drinking age. It's not like alcohol stops effecting you when you turn 21.
21 is approximately the age when alcohol no longer is as detrimental to the human body as it is when the body is still growing and developing. Basically it is more physically harmful before the human body fully matures, which apparently occurs at about 21 years of age.

21 is approximately the age when alcohol no longer is as detrimental to the human body as it is when the body is still growing and developing. Basically it is more physically harmful before the human body fully matures, which apparently occurs at about 21 years of age.America should be more concenred about the levels of fat, sugar and salt in it's youth than booze.

America should be more concenred about the levels of fat, sugar and salt in it's youth than booze.
Does that mean it shouldnt be concerned about harm caused by alcohol at all?

I suggest the reason fat, sugar and salt might be such a problem for Young people in America, is probably directly related to the availability of these items to young people in America.

Does that mean it shouldnt be concerned about harm caused by alcohol at all?

I suggest the reason fat, sugar and salt might be such a problem for Young people in America, is probably directly related to the availability of these items to young people in America.
But it is alo down to education and upbringing. In France they have an even more relaxed outlook on booze than they do in the UK, yes they have per head fewer drink related crimes, fewer alcholics etc etc.
As a child booze was never any great taboo, if I wanted a beer I asked for one. I never needed to sneak out and drink behind my parents backs.
If you are an adult, then all rights and responsibilities are yours. You have to set one age for that. To vote, to join the forces, to be tried as an adult.
By 21 I had been drinking in pubs for five years,during these years I had never be arrested, I was never in danger, I knew my limits.
Make a big issue out of it and you make it more attractive, it should be part of a childs life, one they see as normal and one they are educated about.

But it is alo down to education and upbringing.
Well the same is true of junk food, yet problems stemming from other-consumption of such foods are growing in the US at this time.

In France they have an even more relaxed outlook on booze than they do in the UK, yes they have per head fewer drink related crimes, fewer alcholics etc etc.
They also seem to have less of an issue with junk food. Perhaps for whatever cultural reasons the French have some advantage when it comes to hedonism with restraint.

As a child booze was never any great taboo, if I wanted a beer I asked for one. I never needed to sneak out and drink behind my parents backs.
If you are an adult, then all rights and responsibilities are yours. You have to set one age for that. To vote, to join the forces, to be tried as an adult.
By 21 I had been drinking in pubs for five years,during these years I had never be arrested, I was never in danger, I knew my limits.
Make a big issue out of it and you make it more attractive, it should be part of a childs life, one they see as normal and one they are educated about.
Its a bit hard to expect a society that appears quite unrealistic in its drinking habits to be great educators of the next generation. I know two people, one who had parents that wouldnt allow her to drink, she is now an alcoholic, the other had parents who allowed her to drink (in small amounts) as a child, going for the 'educated choice is better' option, she too is an alcoholic. In both cases the common thread is not what their parents taught them, but rather the culture that pervaded at the time when they were forming their drinking habits, (in both cases this was in their late teens).

The fact is great numbers of people in some societies cannot work their own diets out, much less educate their children about alcohol consumption. While education may be an eventual ideal, it is not a pragmatic full solution for many societies at this time.

Well the same is true of junk food, yet problems stemming from other-consumption of such foods are growing in the US at this time.


They also seem to have less of an issue with junk food. Perhaps for whatever cultural reasons the French have some advantage when it comes to hedonism with restraint.


Its a bit hard to expect a society that appears quite unrealistic in its drinking habits to be great educators of the next generation. I know two people, one who had parents that wouldnt allow her to drink, she is now an alcoholic, the other had parents who allowed her to drink (in small amounts) as a child, going for the 'educated choice is better' option, she too is an alcoholic. In both cases the common thread is not what their parents taught them, but rather the culture that pervaded at the time when they were forming their drinking habits, (in both cases this was in their late teens).

The fact is great numbers of people in some societies cannot work their own diets out, much less educate their children about alcohol consumption. While education may be an eventual ideal, it is not a pragmatic full solution for many societies at this time.
I agree with all you say, I just feel 21 is too old and it will only cause a sub culture of secret drinkers to emerge. Drugs are illegal, it does nto stop thier use by children. What message are you senting the soldier who has spent a two years in the service, has been in combat. that he is responsible enough to carry a gun, enact the rules on engagement, but not mature enough to have a few beers? By 21 he has been voting (at least in the UK) for coming on for four years, he could have been working full time for five! In the UK he could have been driving a car for four/five and a moter bike a year longer.

Ok, over here in England you cannot purchase, be sold, sell or drink alcohol until you are the age of 18, but you can have sex at the age of 16.

The logic?

Maybe it's because what you can do when you're 18 usually leads up to what you can do when you're 16. Who knows?

Ok, over here in England you cannot purchase, be sold, sell or drink alcohol until you are the age of 18, but you can have sex at the age of 16.

The logic?

Maybe it's because what you can do when you're 18 usually leads up to what you can do when you're 16. Who knows?
No you can have alcohol any age in your home with parental permison, over the age of four in a retraunt or beer garden. You just can't buy it until you are 18. In some pubs you can drink it if you are with your parents, but not normally in the bar.

i don't know what the drinking-laws are in Belgium, i asume 16 (for beer and wine) , but it isn't controled by bar-owners or on festivals/parties (it is by a local super market but now we just go to another one).
i think that is due to the fact that we have some kind of beer culture here (not saying that everybody is drunk all the time, but we have the best beer ever and are damn proud of it :cool: ;) )
i have been to drunk once, and that was the last time i ever drank that much, you could say i've learned to know my limits the hard way.
on the other hand we can only drive when we're 18 so most people know how to handle alcohol by the time they can drive.

I'm just glad that the dirnking age in Britian is 16, of course I've been drinking since I was 12, and been drinking 1-2 pints a week at the local since I was 14 but still...

Recently I read in Time about some US states wishing to legislate to raise the minimum legal drinking age (to 21).

Then I saw an item on the television news about another gurerilla attack on a US convoy in Iraq.

That had me thinking, does it mean a situation could arise where a young US citizen could fight/die for his/her nation but isn't allowed a drink of alcohol ?!

What makes the notion even more ridculous is that in the military we train young persons to use expensive, complex, equipment and weapons. We only do that because we believe we can entrust them to use it properly. If we're entrusting them to handle tanks (in fact, loaders in tanks are usually the youngest member of the crew) why can't we let them have a little booze?

Just a thought.

Rant over.


Because its Satan Juice :eek:

I agree completely though. Even in Ireland you can get married, drive a car etc all before the legal age(which obviously given the country no one adheres to!)

I'm just glad that the dirnking age in Britian is 16, of course I've been drinking since I was 12, and been drinking 1-2 pints a week at the local since I was 14 but still...


Eh no its not..its 18

Where I live the drinking age is 21... but Canada is less than an hour away... and their drinking age is 19... at least in BC

I think it had something to do when the voting age used to be 21. But when it dawned upon everyone that the drafting age was 18, they kind of wondered why were 18 year olds fighting when they didn't even choose their President.

Besides, no one pays attention to the legal drinking age unless you sell alcohol.


Then they are stupid.

If for example, you were hanging out at my place, playing x-box and drinking a beer..and a cop were to come to the door...I would be arrested for a) letting you drink in my home, and b) providing a minor with alchohol.

You on the other hand...would be charged with an "MIP" minor in possession, and given a small fine.

Actually, the leagal age for alcohol consumption was vaired by state until the 80's when the feds decided to push for a national age limit. It now stands at 21 nationwide in the US. The governor of Wisconsin recently tried to push to have the legal age lowered to the age of 18 for active duty military only. This would have eliminated the old enough to die but not old enough to drink thing.

Having spent many years in the military and having seen how stupid sailors get when drunk, myself included, I really don't think its a good idea to legalize a lower age. Basically because we're an undisciplined country unable to keep from doing stupid things when drunk, like driving and trying to pick up women.

Notice I said it's not a good idea to legalize a younger drinking age. Kids are going to drink. I just hope they don't get in trouble doing it.

Keep it 21.

I'm just glad that the dirnking age in Britian is 16, of course I've been drinking since I was 12, and been drinking 1-2 pints a week at the local since I was 14 but still...

You have to tell me where this pub is!

I think that 18 should be the legal age for alcopops (even the weaker ones) and spirits, but 16 year olds should be allowed smallish amounts of anything else. Giving kids inexperienced with drink strong booze is not a good idea (An opinion I developed after drinking a litre of whisky) but access to social drinking (as opposed to drinking to get wasted) should take away most of the 'forbidden fruit' temptation.

And as for unlimited drinking time here in the UK, that's the second worst idea Bliar's ever had. (Blair's worst idea was to seek reelection!) Our yob culture, mostly developed through binge drinking, is already a huge problem.

It always struck me as a bit daft that at 16, in most countries, you can have sex but you can't watch a movie like Basic Instict untill you're 18 because of it's sexual content!
:headbang:

The drinking age should stay 21. I notice most of the people saying it should be lower aren't 21. We have all been under 21 once, you'll get there. and like most of you say, you drink anyways, so whats the big deal?

And for those of you bringing up the military issue. I joined the US Marine Corps when I was 17, not even old enough to buy tobacco products. Did I still drink? Darn right. Would I have gotten in serious trouble if I had gotten reported? Yes, possibly under civilian laws and definitely under military laws. By the way, the drinking age for military in the US is 21, reguardless of what the State's law is.

So how did I handle this? I sucked it up and when I turned 21... I forgot what happened when I turned 21. But I'm sure I had fun.

In Germany we have a staged permission to drink - here is an excerpt from the German Protection of Young Persons Act:


§ 9 Alcoholic drinks
(1) The following bans shall apply to restaurants, stores and other points of sale:
1. Brandy as well as brandy-containing drinks or food products with brandy
above negligible level must neither be sold to Children and Adolescents nor
must their consumption by said persons be tolerated
2. Other alcoholic drinks must neither be sold to Children and Adolescents below the age of 16 years nor must their consumption by said persons be tolerated.
(2) Sub-Clause 1, No. 2 shall not apply to Adolescents accompanied by a
Custodial Person.
(3) Alcoholic drinks must not be available from drinks dispensers in the public.
This shall not apply under the following circumstances:
1. A drinks dispenser is located on a site not accessible for Children and
Adolescents.
2. A drinks dispenser is located in enclosed company space and furnished with
mechanical devices or adequately guarded and supervised to the effect that
Children and Adolescents have no access to alcoholic drinks.

(4) Sugared alcohol-containing beverages in terms of § 1, Sub-Clauses 2 and 3, Alcopop Tax Axt, must not be commercially launched without the label “Not to be distributed to persons below 18 years of age, § 9, Protection of Young Persons Act”. This notice shall be attached to the sales package in type, size and colour of print identical with that of the trade or fancy name or with the marketing label or, in case of bottles, on the front label.


For easier understanding:
1) Brandy in this context means any alcohol over 15% Alcohol, i.e. everything apart from beer, wine and their derivates.
2) Children are persons below the age of 14 years.
3) Adolescents are persons as of 14 but below the age of 18 years.
4) A Custodial Person is an individual who is personally or together with
another individual responsible for care and custody of other persons

Although Germany has its own problems with alcoholism (which are especially caused by the so-called Alcopos (e.g. Smirnoff Ice)), I think that the whole attitude towards alcohol is more relaxed here. The result is that the amount of completely wasted youths staggering out of opups and bars as can be witnessed in Britain and the US is much lower here.

What pisses me off is when there is a band that you want to hear and it's in a 21+ place... and they make you stand outside if you want to hear them..

BAH!!!

Of course there are ways of getting around it... Like carrying in the band's equiptment fot them... or pretending to be the bassist's girlfriend

Oh well, I'm busted, I'm a hypocrite, but I would rather be a hypocrite than a paraplegic because some young high school or college kid ran into my car after a night of binge drinking.(I know someone it has happend to)

that's an effect of driving, not of drinking

Of course alcool does not help keeping concentrated and responsible, but so does lots of other factors, not least peer pressure (when you're 16[1] and your friends suggest to go faster, engage in a race or the like, you're going to be as dangerous sober as you could be when drunk, but alone or with calmer friends)

It would make more sense to raise the driving age, not the drinking one, unless it is just an excuse to push puritanical opinions on the society

[1] 16 is the driving age in us, or am i wrong? Here it's 18, and the same considerations apply

In the US there was a time when then drinking age was 18 due to the old enough to die idea. The problem was more people were in driving accidents due to drunk driving, presumably because you also just got your licence at 17, and there were more alcholics arrising. The government felt people weren't responsible enough to start drinking until 21 and raised the drinking age back to 21. There was talk at the time of making it 25 when you are old enough to rent a car.

In certain states the legal age to get married or have sex varies depending on when you are considered an adult. In NJ the legal age of consent is 16 but your parents can press charges if your partner is 18 or old. You can get married at 12 with your parents consent, 18 without. Essentially you can't do anything until you're 18.

Personnally I don't think it really matters what they make the drinking age. It won't change the 14 to 18 year old from getting drunk, some even with their parents. But the problem is that we are a country that can't handle our liquor. Few people take the responsablity of not drinking and driving or stating hey I've had enough to drink. There are high school students telling me I didn't going out drinking the oher night because I wasn't drunk and throwing up. I really find that disturbing and in there lies the problem. I've met people from many different coutries and they all ask why our drinking age is so high until we get to a bar. Most tell me they walk to the bar and walk home because they know they are going to have a good time. If they or their friends has started to have too much they know when to stop. Not saying they haven't gotten smashed but they realize it was them and don't run around the streets naked or pass out in an alley or the bar.

18 works here.

There's talk of emulating the US system over here, though, and a bill might go through parliament later this year. That would really piss me off. I'd have to stick to weed, because it'll be easier to get.

So in the US, in your own home a young man of 16 can't have beer with is mates even with his parents there. But he can go into a big field and shoot a gun with his mates and parents there? What a screwed up way to look at the world!

Recently I read in Time about some US states wishing to legislate to raise the minimum legal drinking age (to 21).

Then I saw an item on the television news about another gurerilla attack on a US convoy in Iraq.

That had me thinking, does it mean a situation could arise where a young US citizen could fight/die for his/her nation but isn't allowed a drink of alcohol ?!

What makes the notion even more ridculous is that in the military we train young persons to use expensive, complex, equipment and weapons. We only do that because we believe we can entrust them to use it properly. If we're entrusting them to handle tanks (in fact, loaders in tanks are usually the youngest member of the crew) why can't we let them have a little booze?

Just a thought.

Rant over.
Its already 21 where I live. Regardless you can always look at it this way. Do you want those guys fighting for our country *drunk*? :)

In the Uk I can go into the pub with my seven year old son in the pub garden and legally buy him a drink. And I have done so, half a pint of shandy now and again is no great shakes (shandy just in case you don't know is half beer half lemonade).
The UK does have problems with bing drinking, but alot of that is down to high taxes on drink. Drink is no longer a cheep sociable thing to do, if you do it, you take it seriously. Going into town and spending £80 a night it better be!

This is also true in Wisconsin. Anyone whom the vaguely written law would consider family can give alcohol to someone under 21. Most local bars are fine with it, but however, don't try it in a national chain, because they'll just kick you out anyway for violating their drinking policy.

I believe there are 7 other states like that, but I forget which ones.

No you can have alcohol any age in your home with parental permison, over the age of four in a retraunt or beer garden. You just can't buy it until you are 18. In some pubs you can drink it if you are with your parents, but not normally in the bar.
The rules are (as i understand them) alcohol at any age at home with parents, 14 to buy an alcoholic drink in a pub with a meal or something(supervised), 18 to buy alcohol anywhere.

that's an effect of driving, not of drinking

Of course alcool does not help keeping concentrated and responsible, but so does lots of other factors, not least peer pressure (when you're 16[1] and your friends suggest to go faster, engage in a race or the like, you're going to be as dangerous sober as you could be when drunk, but alone or with calmer friends)

It would make more sense to raise the driving age, not the drinking one, unless it is just an excuse to push puritanical opinions on the society

[1] 16 is the driving age in us, or am i wrong? Here it's 18, and the same considerations apply

Blah Blah Blah..... Nobody is suggesting raising the drinking age, it's already at 21. And you're wrong, drunk driving is not an effect of driving it's an effect of drinking. Also, it has nothing to do with supposed puritanical opinions of society and everything to do with maturity, responisbility, and discipline. A mature, responsible and disciplined person would not be goated into irrational behavior behind the wheel unless their capacity was deminished by the use of alcohol. Since automobile accidents are the number one cause of death among teenagers, it would make sense to raise the legal driving age or at least put limitaions on it, such as daytime driving only, or just for work or school, or limit the amount of passengers that can be in the car with a teen driver.

Eh no its not..its 18
It's 18 to buy drink, 16y to drink it. And as for which pub it is, it's most pubs, stay away from the bar and get your parents to buy the alchol.

it should seriously be lowered to 14, i spent years drinking little amounts of Alchohol before i chugged a bottle of Vodka and nearly died, THAT changed my perspective on Alcohol, 21 is just rediculous.


You just proved the argument for keeping it at 21. A fourteen year old child is not old enough to be drinking at all....an adult knows that chugging vodka will lead to alcohol poisoning. YOu could have killed your stupid ass doing that and you family would have been left to grieve and hurt. Immaturity!! Drinking is not a right ,it is a priviliege that one needs to be mature enough to understand how to do it responsibly. At 16 these idiots will think I can handle my booze and drive...Increase in drunk driving related crap, INcrease in alcoholism, Birth defects in babies etc. Drinking isnt for teenagers. To be able to drink responsibly you have to know it isnt for chugging, drinking contests, you know to have an occasional drink of wine at dinner is okay, or at a party one drink may be okay and you know what youre body can tolerate until you know the difference in drinking responsibly and drinking to make a fool out of yourself then you are too immature ((sometimes irregardless of age)).

:D In the words of 2pac "I'm old enough to go to war, but i'm not old enough to drink" there would most likely be a decline in drinking. In america 37% of people use Marijuana, in Holland (where its legal) only 17% of the population use marijuana. hell they even have a a third of heroin users in holland than in the US. If you want i can get you a few sources that cite this fact.

This is also true in Wisconsin. Anyone whom the vaguely written law would consider family can give alcohol to someone under 21. Most local bars are fine with it, but however, don't try it in a national chain, because they'll just kick you out anyway for violating their drinking policy.

I believe there are 7 other states like that, but I forget which ones.
Any states with moronic laws like that are getting very little federal funding from our government for not getting with the program. Yeah here junior chug a lug and have the car keys while your at it! :headbang:

Actually its ironic, the adolescent class was created so that young people wouldn't compete with adults in the work place. The whole creation of that class has actually made them more immature than they originally were at that age. By giving adoloscents adult responsibilities then you make them more mature.
My parents have been letting me drink since i was 12. thats getting drunk too. And now, i'm 23. since i was 16/17, i only drink (except for the occasional beer) once a month excessively. By outlawing it (particularly until the age of 21) there is more of a stigma associated with drinking therefore alcoholism etc... would actually increase.
My cousin who isn't allowed to even have one drink at all is more of a wino than i am and she's 14! Hello! By allowing younger people to drink responsibly, and this is the responsibility of the parents, then alcohol is seen as nothing particularly special, such as marijuana is seen in Holland, and they smoke the stuff less (refer to argument above).

PS since i got my drivers license i've never felt to compulsion to drink and drive, and over here in australia when you're on the first 3 years of your license you can't have any alcohol in your system.

i like england: i can drink when i'm 16. US at 21 is just dumb, and is due to wacky gun nut fanatic christians.

no 18, but we all ahem drink when where 16 anyway


ahem .... 14, fuck the establishment, drink when you like as young as you like, or not at all if you don't want to, don't let society dictate to you what is normal and acceptable.

I dislike in the UK how once you get to be over 18, when drinking is legal, a high proportion of activities are geared towards drinking. If you don't drink it can be a struggle to find something else enjoyable to do, and even more of a struggle to find other people to do it with.

It's vital to the character of America that the drinking age stay at 21. It teaches people to break stupid laws early on in life.

ahem .... 14, fuck the establishment, drink when you like as young as you like, or not at all if you don't want to, don't let society dictate to you what is normal and acceptable.

i agree, but still, it's not that great to drink a lot when you are still in the stages of mental and physical growth. it just messes everything up. believe me, i know from experience :headbang:

It's vital to the character of America that the drinking age stay at 21. It teaches people to break stupid laws early on in life.No it doesn't. 20 isn't "early"... :p

it doesnt matter what the drinking age is, they drink anyway. they can get thier hands on all types of alcohol. Will it change anything if they raise the age? not really. they will still drink.


What's this they crap? And how dare you make assumptions about the United States. Not everybody drinks. I am from Pennsylvania, now Florida, and have never touched a drop in all my 18 years and never plan to. You are a son of a bitch and you may call me Susan if it isn't so.

And the drinking age should be raised to 100. If you can live that long and you want a drink then you deserve it. But before then it'll just ruin your life.

No it doesn't. 20 isn't "early"... :p
16 is.

The legal age to drink is really th age you can stop being sneaky about drinking.in ireland the legal age to drink is 18,despite this i've been drinking since i was 12,and now at 17 my parents let me drink,they have since i was 16.Which is a good idea,surely its better i get used to alcohol a bit with my family rather than get totally fucked the first time i go to a bar

And the drinking age should be raised to 100. If you can live that long and you want a drink then you deserve it. But before then it'll just ruin your life.It'll ruin your life? Bush is president, isn't he? How'd his life get ruined?

And the drinking age should be raised to 100. If you can live that long and you want a drink then you deserve it. But before then it'll just ruin your life.
Yes because any ammount of alcohol invariably ruins the drinker's life and it's government's job to make sure that we don't do anything that's in any way harmfull to ourselves.

16 is.Lower it to 16 or 17 then. People can break silly laws real early on then :p
Sillyness aside, I believe in being allowed to drink before being allowed to drive. Test your limits before you hit the road.

It'll ruin your life? Bush is president, isn't he? How'd his life get ruined?

lol

Lower it to 16 or 17 then. People can break silly laws real early on then :p
Sillyness aside, I believe in being allowed to drink before being allowed to drive. Test your limits before you hit the road.
21 gives you several years of practice in breaking stupid laws, but then so does our ban on marijuana and the dumb gun laws in many states including mine.

What's this they crap? And how dare you make assumptions about the United States. Not everybody drinks. I am from Pennsylvania, now Florida, and have never touched a drop in all my 18 years and never plan to. You are a son of a bitch and you may call me Susan if it isn't so.

good for you...

And the drinking age should be raised to 100. If you can live that long and you want a drink then you deserve it. But before then it'll just ruin your life.

Drinking no more ruins your life than chewing gum.ok,if you drink to much you are very likely to fuck your body up royally,but the same is true of consuming anything in excess.so long as you dont drink yourself blind on a highly regular basis you'll be fine,more or less.doing some stupid things when you are drunk isnt the ruination of your life.

What's this they crap? And how dare you make assumptions about the United States. Not everybody drinks. I am from Pennsylvania, now Florida, and have never touched a drop in all my 18 years and never plan to. You are a son of a bitch and you may call me Susan if it isn't so.
Lighten up Susan.

And the drinking age should be raised to 100. If you can live that long and you want a drink then you deserve it. But before then it'll just ruin your life.
I just found something to refute your opinion:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3398891.stm

I just found something to refute your opinion:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3398891.stm

very good use of resources ;)

very good use of resources ;)My internet access is free (university and all that) but the only place I can get it with access to an electrical outlet is going to close in 17 minutes... :(

Blah Blah Blah..... Nobody is suggesting raising the drinking age, it's already at 21.

it's already at 21, and in my opinion it's already too high

and I wouldn't be affected by most changes in such laws, as I'm 25, from another country, with no immediate plans to travel there, so I'm not talking out of direct interest

And you're wrong, drunk driving is not an effect of driving it's an effect of drinking. Also, it has nothing to do with supposed puritanical opinions of society and everything to do with maturity, responisbility, and discipline.

which is something that most teenagers usually follow, but are prone to forget occasionally

which is more likely: forgetting to be mature and responsible when they are doing something lawful, that they have already done with their family, knowing their limits, etc., or when they are doing something illegal?

of course minors drinking without the consent of their parents should be restricted (and enforced more than they actually do in my country), and there should be some rule that prevents 18-year old friends (as opposed to parents or people authorized by parents) from buying alcool for minors.

A mature, responsible and disciplined person would not be goated into irrational behavior behind the wheel unless their capacity was deminished by the use of alcohol.

a mature, responsible and disciplined person wouldn't drink himself stupid, either, even if the law did allow him to drink

Since automobile accidents are the number one cause of death among teenagers, it would make sense to raise the legal driving age or at least put limitaions on it, such as daytime driving only, or just for work or school, or limit the amount of passengers that can be in the car with a teen driver.

this would be a good thing, independently from drinking

And the drinking age should be raised to 100. If you can live that long and you want a drink then you deserve it. But before then it'll just ruin your life.
Drinking dosn't ruin your life mate, excessive drinking does, but I guess excessive Orange Juice drinking would as well, in fact doing anything in the excess will. Having a pint or two a day won't harm you.

Recently I read in Time about some US states wishing to legislate to raise the minimum legal drinking age (to 21).

Then I saw an item on the television news about another gurerilla attack on a US convoy in Iraq.

That had me thinking, does it mean a situation could arise where a young US citizen could fight/die for his/her nation but isn't allowed a drink of alcohol ?!

What makes the notion even more ridculous is that in the military we train young persons to use expensive, complex, equipment and weapons. We only do that because we believe we can entrust them to use it properly. If we're entrusting them to handle tanks (in fact, loaders in tanks are usually the youngest member of the crew) why can't we let them have a little booze?

Just a thought.

Rant over.

The Minimum drinking age in the United States has been 21 for some time (this is individual state laws); However, what you're talking about is the development of a "National" minimum drinking age (at the Federal Level); this would impact those deployed elsewhere (in localities or areas where the age is lower....) That is, a soldier in Italy (where he could legally drink, just fine at 18) would no longer be able to (to this point, federally, installations have based their drinking rules on the local government of the region they are installed at... oversees bases allow drinking at what-ever age the locality allows).

In Canada the minimum drinking age is 19. It used to be 21 many years ago.

in some southern states you gan get married (with a judges order) at 14! but of course no champagne at the wedding, or infact for another...6 years!

i like that you can pay tax and vote at 18 but not drink untill you're 21, responsible enough to choose the president but not for a beer? please!

why didnt anyone consider not letting teenagers drive? they have more accidents than anyone else anyway, and that way its more difficult to drink and drive - alcohol is easier to find illegally than a car! could it perhaps have something to do with oil companies?

Actually, I think they should get rid of the drinking age altogether, and raise the driving age to 21...with allowable permits to 18 and older for DAYLIGHT DRIVING ONLY, so that they could get to college or work.