NationStates Jolt Archive

Greetings one and all. My name is Seth Turner of Tyslan, and I wish to throw down the religious gauntlet. Throughout this board it has been beaten, insulted, laughed at, defended and offended, torn apart, and spit on. What is it? Religion, the idea of being religious, following a deity figure.

Here and now I wish to present the true challenge present on so many threads. Is Christianity a valid religion for a logical, reasonable person? To argue that it is, Tyslan will provide one Brian Chut, Official Religious Emissary. I choose Christianity because it is seemingly the most widespread on this board, and it is often the most well known.

Let there be good, reasonable discussion here please. And also, you really do not need to quote someone's article, just say "as [insert name here] said, ..." It makes a lot less clutter. With that, can anyone here say that Christianity is unreasonable?
- Seth Turner
Lord of Tyslan

Greetings one and all. My name is Seth Turner of Tyslan, and I wish to throw down the religious gauntlet. Throughout this board it has been beaten, insulted, laughed at, defended and offended, torn apart, and spit on. What is it? Religion, the idea of being religious, following a deity figure.

Here and now I wish to present the true challenge present on so many threads. Is Christianity a valid religion for a logical, reasonable person? To argue that it is, Tyslan will provide one Brian Chut, Official Religious Emissary. I choose Christianity because it is seemingly the most widespread on this board, and it is often the most well known.

Let there be good, reasonable discussion here please. And also, you really do not need to quote someone's article, just say "as [insert name here] said, ..." It makes a lot less clutter. With that, can anyone here say that Christianity is unreasonable?
- Seth Turner
Lord of Tyslan

*beats, insults, laughs, offends, defends, tears apart, spits*

We always must be objective. Just because we can't prove something doesn't mean it isn't there. Just because we can't disprove something doesn't mean it exists.

NULL SOLUTION

its as reasonable as any religion. i dont see it as abnormally unbelievable.

With that, can anyone here say that Christianity is unreasonable?

christianity is not unreasonable, but some of the people claiming to be speaking 'for' christianity on the other hand.....

christianity is not unreasonable, but some of the people claiming to be speaking 'for' christianity on the other hand..... I'm a prophet damn you! :mad: :headbang:

christianity is not unreasonable, but some of the people claiming to be speaking 'for' christianity on the other hand.....
Very wise

I'm a prophet damn you! :mad: :headbang:

No, he is a false prophet! I am the Messiah!

*Has lost all chance of entering Heaven*

Greetings one and all. My name is Seth Turner of Tyslan, and I wish to throw down the religious gauntlet. Throughout this board it has been beaten, insulted, laughed at, defended and offended, torn apart, and spit on. What is it? Religion, the idea of being religious, following a deity figure.

Here and now I wish to present the true challenge present on so many threads. Is Christianity a valid religion for a logical, reasonable person?
It is reasonable and acceptable for someone to believe in Christianity. It is not logical, though.

Unfortunately, what many literalists put forwad as Christianity is not Christianity, it is nothing short of idolatry, harping on the physical reality rather than the spiritual reality of Christ.

Having religion argument threads are pointless. No one will change thier stance, or speak politely to people on the opposing side. Besides, people have to descover it for themselves.

It's damn near impossible to live by, but if you can pull off giving without counting the cost or expecting something in return, turning the other cheek, etc. well, I guess there are more unreasonable things you could be doing.

I guess it depends on your definition of "reasonable" doesn't it?

If we take example one of the www.dictionary.com definition:


rea·son·a·ble Audio pronunciation of "reasonable" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rz-n-bl)
adj.

1. Capable of reasoning; rational: a reasonable person.
2. Governed by or being in accordance with reason or sound thinking: a reasonable solution to the problem.
3. Being within the bounds of common sense: arrive home at a reasonable hour.
4. Not excessive or extreme; fair: reasonable prices.


Also noting the meaning of "rational" (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=rational).

So, if you have to be rational to be reasonable, and to be rational one must be capable of taking into accout facts to make an opinion Christianity is un-reasonable. I know the hard line Christians will flame this, but there is no un-deniable proof that anything in the Bible is true, other than the Bible itself, and therefore you can't make a rational decision to be Christian. And plenty of people have written books right? I don't choose to worship a little yellow bear because I read Winnie the Pooh when I was little...

Having religion argument threads are pointless. No one will change thier stance, or speak politely to people on the opposing side. Besides, people have to descover it for themselves.

well, it's typing for the sake of typing, but who knows, maybe someone will actually learn something from it

I guess it depends on your definition of "reasonable" doesn't it?

If we take example one of the www.dictionary.com definition:

Also noting the meaning of "rational" (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=rational).

So, if you have to be rational to be reasonable, and to be rational one must be capable of taking into accout facts to make an opinion Christianity is un-reasonable. I know the hard line Christians will flame this, but there is no un-deniable proof that anything in the Bible is true, other than the Bible itself. And plenty of people have written books right? I don't choose to worship a little yellow bear because I read Winnie the Pooh when I was little...
The key to being "reasonable" is to have reasons. Reasons can be sane and be based on beliefs rather than facts.

*Copies over from your double-posted topic*

I would like to submit the idea that Christian Scripture can be used to create a logical and reasonable way of looking at the world, but that the Christian Church has invaded this scripture and given it interpretations and meanings that require people to hold illogical and unreasonable beliefs. It is therefore necessary for you to explain what you mean by "Christianity" in order to deduce its logistics and rationale.

Greetings one and all. My name is Seth Turner of Tyslan, and I wish to throw down the religious gauntlet. Throughout this board it has been beaten, insulted, laughed at, defended and offended, torn apart, and spit on. What is it? Religion, the idea of being religious, following a deity figure.

Here and now I wish to present the true challenge present on so many threads. Is Christianity a valid religion for a logical, reasonable person? To argue that it is, Tyslan will provide one Brian Chut, Official Religious Emissary. I choose Christianity because it is seemingly the most widespread on this board, and it is often the most well known.

Let there be good, reasonable discussion here please. And also, you really do not need to quote someone's article, just say "as [insert name here] said, ..." It makes a lot less clutter. With that, can anyone here say that Christianity is unreasonable?
- Seth Turner
Lord of Tyslan
Alright, my gloves are off too. Big surprise.

Reason is the faculty which identifies and integrates sensory data. God, who supposedly exists above sensory data, thus, is beyond anything that we might call 'reason.'

A lot of people run around with their thumbs up their asses in religious debates, shouting little else but "Prove God!" and "Disprove God!" to each other which is childish at best. Proof and reason are closely related concepts: in order to prove something you need to boil it down to its sensory aspects. If you want to prove that someone is a theif, for example, you might choose to display footage of said person cheating. If you want to prove that the dollar is worthless, you need only point to a gas station or a restaurant menu or an electronics store and see for yourself.

God, because he cannot be seen or perceived [supposedly] by the human mind, is thus divorced entirely from both concepts: reason and proof. God, since His presence is ultimately unverifiable, can only be treated as an arbitrary statement. You could no more 'prove' God to someone than you could prove that there are mole people living in Alpha Centauri.

Can a man be 'reasonable' and still be a Christian? Sure, I guess. I've met a few that seemed to have a level head on their shoulders: contrary to popular belief most of them aren't actually fascists. But, I decided to read this question pertaining the literal meaning of reason to the situation, and thus I am forced to conclude that if a man uses his senses to interact with reality, and uses his mind to perceive that interaction, he can not place any faith in a 'greater being' beyond that of a vague possibility.

Oh and just a note: I'd completely ignore any definition that used the word it was trying to define in the definition. Dictionary.com's definition of this particular word is utterly useless. I wouldn't define "tennis ball" as "a ball used for tennis," for example. By that definition, I could use a rubber band ball, and I might think for years that it's actually a 'tennis' ball due to the definition and the manner in which I chose to first deploy the device.

Reason is the faculty which identifies and integrates sensory data. God, who supposedly exists above sensory data, thus, is beyond anything that we might call 'reason.'
Well put Melkor. And why I don't know what to vote.

Christians can surely be nice & intelligent people, though I think the lot of them have an absurd streak. If the poll is about whether it's acceptable to be Christian, then "yes". If it's whether it's reasonable to be Christian, then "no".

I'm currently reading Kant's work (I'm on the basic stuff right now), but I'm told he wrote a nifty piece called "Religion Within the Boundaries of Mere Reason". If I can understand his work on on the metaphysics of morals, I'll try to move on to the religious essays (because my wife's a practicing religious person, and I think as a courtesy I should understand her mindset to the extent I can).

That said, although I'm not in a position to prove or disprove any kind of God, I haven't seen a lot of supporting observations in favor of any particular doctrine of THE God.

Well put Melkor. And why I don't know what to vote.

Christians can surely be nice & intelligent people, though I think the lot of them have an absurd streak. If the poll is about whether it's acceptable to be Christian, then "yes". If it's whether it's reasonable to be Christian, then "no".
Yeah, I had some difficulty with it too, but I sided with 'no' in the end because I have an annoying tendancy to take things literally.

I'm currently reading Kant's work (I'm on the basic stuff right now), but I'm told he wrote a nifty piece called "Religion Within the Boundaries of Mere Reason". If I can understand his work on on the metaphysics of morals, I'll try to move on to the religious essays (because my wife's a practicing religious person, and I think as a courtesy I should understand her mindset to the extent I can).

That said, although I'm not in a position to prove or disprove any kind of God, I haven't seen a lot of supporting observations in favor of any particular doctrine of THE God.
Oh Christ, don't get me started on Kant :headbang:

Being that Christianity, like every other religion, is based on faith and hearsay, and completely lacks proof of any kind, it is about as logical and reasonable to follow as any other religion. Which is not at all.

So no, a logical, reasonable person shouldn't follow Christianity, or any other religion.

Christianty, like any other religion is completely unreasonable to me. In Ancient Times, there was religion because people knew almost nothing about this world. These days, we know so much about our world, and stuff that could not be explained in ancient times, so we do not need religion. Yet we still have it.

Well put Melkor. And why I don't know what to vote.

Christians can surely be nice & intelligent people, though I think the lot of them have an absurd streak. If the poll is about whether it's acceptable to be Christian, then "yes". If it's whether it's reasonable to be Christian, then "no". However, one could argue that it's unreasonable and deliberately blind to ignore the faith that Christians say they are given.
Of course it's possible for a reasonable person to be Christian. Plenty of them down the ages, and plenty of reasonable Jews and Muslims. Although quite a few aren't.

However, one could argue that it's unreasonable and deliberately blind to ignore the faith that Christians say they are given.
Of course it's possible for a reasonable person to be Christian. Plenty of them down the ages, and plenty of reasonable Jews and Muslims. Although quite a few aren't.
What is faith, then? Faith is a feeling, specifically it is the feeling that the truth about the universe will be revealed to the soul in due time. To say that it is unreasonable to ignore someone else's faith is an attempt to justify their feelings as a legitimate means of determining action for [i]me.

Faith is great and you're welcome to it, but I prefer to put mine where my mouth is.

What is faith, then? Faith is a feeling, specifically it is the feeling that the truth about the universe will be revealed to the soul in due time. To say that it is unreasonable to ignore someone else's faith is an attempt to justify their feelings as a legitimate means of determining action for [i]me.

Faith is great and you're welcome to it, but I prefer to put mine where my mouth is. I'm not talking about wishful thinking, I'm talking about the faith that isn't anything else… more than belief, but less than certainty. I meant that it is unreasonable for someone to ignore their own faith, should they have any. If someone converts, they don't suddenly become "less reasonable".