NationStates Jolt Archive

It's no surprise that gas prices were going to go up--they always do after a storm that affects Louisiana's refining capacity or that affects the roads in such a way so as to hamper trucking and the ability to transport the fuel.

But here's the story (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-zgas30aug30,0,5130587.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines), and I'm actually surprised at how little of a rise this is (but I'm a pessimist in this sort of stuff)--expect to pay another 30 cents a gallon in the next week, and that could go up depending on the damage to south Louisiana's refining capacity and port services.
Some oil analysts think that shortages of crude and refined products could occur if Gulf oil production rigs are damaged, as they were last year by Hurricane Ivan, and if refineries and ports cannot begin moving oil products to the southeastern United States. As Katrina moved to the northeast Monday, oil companies were only beginning to assess damage.

ConocoPhillips, Valero Energy Corp. and at least five other companies closed plants in Louisiana and Mississippi as Katrina neared. The shutdowns idled about 1.79 million barrels a day of refining capacity, or more than 10 percent of total U.S. capacity. U.S. gasoline supplies are already below normal, with demand running at a record pace.

"Damage similar to that caused by Ivan will push oil prices above $75," said A.F. Alhajji, an energy economist and associate professor of economics at Ohio Northern University. "It took more than six months to restore production after Hurricane Ivan.

"Even without any damage, evacuation, the shutdown of production operation and tanker delays will bring prices to new records."

The important thing to remember here is that when we're talking about gas prices, the amount of crude oil being pumped is not the major issue--it's refining capacity and the ability to ship it to needed areas that's essential, and so even if the refineries escaped major damage, getting gas out of that area could prove to be difficult and costly.

If you live anywhere in the south and traditionally get your gas from Louisiana, expect major jumps in your gas costs. I'm expecting it to be above $3.00 a gallon the next time I fill up, and I'm really glad that I bought a little Hyundai a few weeks ago. I get about 30 mpg.

Can I just point out that you Americans have stupidly low fuel prices compared to the rest of the world. your complaining about 3$ a gallon we will soon be paying £1 a litre here in the UK and we haven't had a natural disaster to prompt this this is just normal rises! You should count yourselves lucky. The attitude you Americans have towards fuel is totally typical hogging the worlds resourses for yourself.

Can I just point out that you Americans have stupidly low fuel prices compared to the rest of the world. your complaining about 3$ a gallon we will soon be paying £1 a litre here in the UK and we haven't had a natural disaster to prompt this this is just normal rises! You should count yourselves lucky. The attitude you Americans have towards fuel is totally typical hogging the worlds resourses for yourself.
Trust me--I know that we have ridiculously low gas prices as compared to much of the world, and I've been advocating for higher prices as a way to force Americans into more fuel-economy.

I wasn't trying to advocate anything with this thread however--the topic was more of an informative one, letting people know what to expect from this hurricane.

I'm starting to wonder if it would be cheaper in the long run to buy myself a plane, fly it to the US, buy a plane load of petrol from America and bring it back to the UK. I've just got my first car, and havent got a job so the petrol cost is killing me. I'd love to be able to go 30 miles (as my car is also 30mpg) for less than £2!

I'm starting to wonder if it would be cheaper in the long run to buy myself a plane, fly it to the US, buy a plane load of petrol from America and bring it back to the UK. I've just got my first car, and havent got a job so the petrol cost is killing me. I'd love to be able to go 30 miles (as my car is also 30mpg) for less than £2!
Just out of curiosity, what's the average commute for a person in the UK? Right now, I commute about 22 miles one-way to go to work, and I carpool 3 days a week, so that saves fuel.

Can I just point out that you Americans have stupidly low fuel prices compared to the rest of the world. your complaining about 3$ a gallon we will soon be paying £1 a litre here in the UK and we haven't had a natural disaster to prompt this this is just normal rises! You should count yourselves lucky. The attitude you Americans have towards fuel is totally typical hogging the worlds resourses for yourself.


Us Canadians are just as bad for complaining about the price. We only recently started paying half (maybe less than half) what those in the UK are paying, and you wouldn't beleive the amount of bellyaching going on. I'm as guilty as the rest of them. OTOH, I have to drive over 1000 KM to visit my parents, and regualrily cover 400 KM in the course of a work week, a common situation in a land so vast.

Not really sure what the average is. My dad travels about 20 miles (one way) a day, and my mum does roughly the same. I'll be doing about 10 miles to school when we go back.

Some people travel a lot more. My dad often goes to all four corners of the UK on business trips

Isn't Bush expected to break out the Strategic Oil Reserve during an event like this?

Isn't Bush expected to break out the Strategic Oil Reserve during an event like this?
No, during events like Saudi Arabia having a revolution, or Israel nuking someone.

Regarding the price situation, I know a guy who has to drive anywhere between Manchester and Birmingham in a day, sometimes his commute begins at 6am and lasts three hours. Paying well over $6 per gallon.

Isn't Bush expected to break out the Strategic Oil Reserve during an event like this?
There's some talk that he will, but take a guess as to where a lot of it is located. South Louisiana. This really was a perfect storm in terms of the damage it might yet wreak, not only on the area, but on the US economy.

Can I just point out that you Americans have stupidly low fuel prices compared to the rest of the world. your complaining about 3$ a gallon we will soon be paying £1 a litre here in the UK and we haven't had a natural disaster to prompt this this is just normal rises! You should count yourselves lucky. The attitude you Americans have towards fuel is totally typical hogging the worlds resourses for yourself.
It's not that gas is more expensive in the UK. It's probably cheaper, actually. It's just that the government taxes it heavily. In most countries, gasoline is subsidized.

This sharp rise in prices isn't helped when in some countries where the government takes in billions from taxation on fuel (and refuse to remove it). Maybe these nations prefer high oil prices. :(

This sharp rise in prices isn't helped when in some countries where the government takes in billions from taxation on fuel (and refuse to remove it). Maybe these nations prefer high oil prices. :(
I think that oil outside North America may be cheaper, as the US is actually able to import less. This may mean cheaper gas in other importers with significant refining capacity.

I have to drive over 1000 KM to visit my parents, and regualrily cover 400 KM in the course of a work week, a common situation in a land so vast.

I live in the UK and before I inherited the family farm, I was working for the MoD and they had me travaling all over the UK often more than 1000 miles a week! For several months I simply used the trains with a rail warrant, which worked out over the months at about 32pence per mile, about one third what it would have cost by car.
The point is that petrol prices are much higher throughout the world than they are in the USA and -to a lesser extent- Canada. And it is this reliance on cars and petrol in AMerica that has meant that any rise in prices is met with extream resistance. The low price is what is making the build up of more sustainable forms of power so slow.
Now if you will excuse me I'm off to fill several jerry-cans with petrol before the next budget.

I think that oil outside North America may be cheaper, as the US is actually able to import less. This may mean cheaper gas in other importers with significant refining capacity.

I live in Australia where the prices for fuel were once about $AU 0.80 per litre - now about $1.30 per litre (and worse in remote areas). 50% of it goes into the Australian government coffers. We lose, the government wins.

It's not that gas is more expensive in the UK. It's probably cheaper, actually. It's just that the government taxes it heavily. In most countries, gasoline is subsidized.
So if it was not subsidised in the US then the build up of more sustainable forms of power would be cheaper, more effeciant, and, here is the best bit, an awful lot faster. I was reading several reports recently saying that while by 2010 Britain is on course to have 10% of it's power coming from wind farms, the US will have less than 0.3 % of all it's power coming from any renewable power sources. Now Britian is smaller than half the states in America, and yet we can find the space for these things. Why doesn't the American goverment simply say, "Right every states must have x number of renewable energy sources, where x is directly proportinal to the population of the state". That would ease the cost of oil for power stations, it would reduce pollution (USA produces 24% of all world pollution for less than 2 % of the world population) and it would help set an example to other countries. You are always saying your the leaders of the world (which I strongly disagree with, but thats for another day) so show everyone that the US is as commited, if not more commited to saving the world as any other country.

You are always saying your the leaders of the world .

I don't remember saying that. In fact, I don't believe I've heard more than 3 or 4 people I've actually met say that.

You meant to say

"Some of your politicians are always saying that you're the leaders of the world."

I don't remember saying that. In fact, I don't believe I've heard more than 3 or 4 people I've actually met say that.

You meant to say

"Some of your politicians are always saying that you're the leaders of the world."

Ok I accept that perhaps there was a slight exaggeration there, but you have to admit that the US Goveremt always say that, and they certainly seem to belive it when they are dealing with other countries.

P.S. My condolances to all those who lost friends and family in the hurrucane and related disasters.

Ok I accept that perhaps there was a slight exaggeration there, but you have to admit that the US Goveremt always say that, and they certainly seem to belive it when they are dealing with other countries.


Thank you.

Sorry, but the truth is that watching our government is a very bad way to judge most Americans nowadays. Our political system has become so corrupt that most people I know vote for the lesser evil rather than for someone they have even a shred of belief in.

Yes, I'm American. I love my country. I fear my government. I hate my politicians.

and yes, I've given very serious thought to leaving the country. Actually, the decision right now hinges on the outcomes of a custody hearing and the relationship I'm in currently. That and whether I could acquire citizenship in one of the countries I would actually be willing to move to.

Can I just point out that you Americans have stupidly low fuel prices compared to the rest of the world. your complaining about 3$ a gallon we will soon be paying £1 a litre here in the UK and we haven't had a natural disaster to prompt this this is just normal rises! You should count yourselves lucky. The attitude you Americans have towards fuel is totally typical hogging the worlds resourses for yourself.

...or we just don't tax the hell out of it...

A Conoco by our house had its price dropping steadily, it was down to 2.45 yesterday, today it is 2.53.

So if it was not subsidised in the US then the build up of more sustainable forms of power would be cheaper, more effeciant, and, here is the best bit, an awful lot faster. I was reading several reports recently saying that while by 2010 Britain is on course to have 10% of it's power coming from wind farms, the US will have less than 0.3 % of all it's power coming from any renewable power sources. Now Britian is smaller than half the states in America, and yet we can find the space for these things. Why doesn't the American goverment simply say, "Right every states must have x number of renewable energy sources, where x is directly proportinal to the population of the state". That would ease the cost of oil for power stations, it would reduce pollution (USA produces 24% of all world pollution for less than 2 % of the world population) and it would help set an example to other countries. You are always saying your the leaders of the world (which I strongly disagree with, but thats for another day) so show everyone that the US is as commited, if not more commited to saving the world as any other country.
Gasoline is not subsidized in the US. It is taxed less. The governments that subsidize gas are oil producers and many third world governments. Saudi Arabia, for example, fixes its prices at $0.05/gal. It's not that low elsewhere, but most places keep gas prices below $1.50. It's funny how some governments hate gas while others embrace it.

No, during events like Saudi Arabia having a revolution, or Israel nuking someone.

Oh ok, thanks for clarifying that.

Thank you.

Sorry, but the truth is that watching our government is a very bad way to judge most Americans nowadays. Our political system has become so corrupt that most people I know vote for the lesser evil rather than for someone they have even a shred of belief in.

Yes, I'm American. I love my country. I fear my government. I hate my politicians.

and yes, I've given very serious thought to leaving the country. Actually, the decision right now hinges on the outcomes of a custody hearing and the relationship I'm in currently. That and whether I could acquire citizenship in one of the countries I would actually be willing to move to.

which countries would you be willing to move to?

And as to taxing the hell out of petrol a) that is not us thats the government and b) as has been explain at the top of page two this is to try and force fuel conservation as aposed to wasting it..

Also can I point out we should be more concerned with the 80 people dead than the rise in fuel cost due to the hurricane.

which countries would you be willing to move to?


Certain regions of England and Canada look attractive atm. If I felt confident in learning the language I might go to Japan. However, it's a blasted complex language and I don't feel that I could do it justice. With some research, there's a possibility that areas of Australia and New Zealand would interest me as well.