NationStates Jolt Archive

Come on, even if you're a grammar whore, I am sure there is at least one rule that you can't stand. I can't stand that preposition rule, which is why I ocassionally ignore that one. What is yours?

Come on, even if you're a grammar whore, I am sure there is at least one rule that you can't stand. I can't stand that preposition rule, which is why I ocassionally ignore that one. What is yours?
I do not know what this preposition rule is, but I hate that you can't use abriv's or contractions in formal writing.

Come on, even if you're a grammar whore, I am sure there is at least one rule that you can't stand. I can't stand that preposition rule, which is why I ocassionally ignore that one. What is yours?
Same one. Don't even really undertand it.

that preposition rule

You mean never end a sentence in a preposition? As Winston Churchill put it: "That is the kind of English up with which I will not put."

"I before E, except after C....(but not always)"

Tomb.
Comb.

Good
Food.

I wish I was taught english well enough to know all the rules!

Same one. Don't even really undertand it.

It seems like an unnecessary rule to me, and sometimes it can be a pain in the ass to find a way to reword a sentence so it doesn't end with a preposition.

The preposition rule should be obeyed at all times. I have never broken it that I am aware of.

The preposition rule should be obeyed at all times. I have never broken it that I am aware of.

Yes, you must be the king of the english language. :rolleyes:

It should be:
I have never broken it that of which I am aware.

I wish I was taught english well enough to know all the rules!

I guess you could try teaching yourself grammar. There's a really good book called "Grammatically Correct" which I used and which is both clear and (as much as a book on grammer can be) interesting.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0898797764/002-1951368-4202424?v=glance

Yes, you must be the king of the english language. :rolleyes:
What isn't he the king of?

"I before E, except after C....(but not always)"

Tomb.
Comb.

Good
Food.
What about...

House---->Houses
Mouse---->Mice
Goose---->Geese
Moose---->Moose

What about...

House---->Houses
Mouse---->Mice
Goose---->Geese
Moose---->Moose

I don't think I've ever had too much of a problem with that.

Yes, you must be the king of the english language. :rolleyes:

It should be:
I have never broken it that of which I am aware.

You mean... I was actually breaking the rule I claimed to never break???? What are the odds?!

You mean... I was actually breaking the rule I claimed to never break???? What are the odds?!

You have been decrowned.

Hang hung/hanged
I know the difference but I don't know why there has to be 2 past tenses.

You mean... I was actually breaking the rule I claimed to never break???? What are the odds?!

lol.

What is this preposition rule? I've never come across it. It sounds like one of those grammAR rules that nobody ever seems to obey.

Just like nobody ever says trait in the correct way (it's actually supposed to be spoken as 'tray').

That preposition "rule" isn't even a real grammar rule:

http://www.yourdictionary.com/library/drlang001.html

I've never heard that one being tought, neither in my German English classes, nor abroad in English speaking countries.

Anyway, same difference - it's just considered lower speaking standard when you end a sentence with a preposition, but it's definitely not wrong.

The only things I never really got right was where to place commas

one, two, three, and four - why is there one in front of the and? It's already linked by and, so is there really a need for another comma?

And what is up with the placement of punctuation marks and quotation marks?

"I told him not to show up here anymore", says father.
"I told him not to show up here anymore," says father.
"I told him not to show up here anymore." says father.

:confused:
I never got that one right and still stumble over it whenever I read something alike...

lol.

What is this preposition rule? I've never come across it. It sounds like one of those grammAR rules that nobody ever seems to obey.

A preposition (such as on, in, at, with etc.) should always be followed by a noun like in "the book is on the table". Because of this, there should never be a sentence ending in a preposition, but because some phrases (like "that I know of") end in a preposition, it is sometimes convenient to end a sentence in a preposition.

Just like nobody ever says trait in the correct way (it's actually supposed to be spoken as 'tray').

Really? I didn't know that. If someone pronounced trait "tray" I wouldn't know what they were talking about.

Hang hung/hanged
I know the difference but I don't know why there has to be 2 past tenses.

Hang = Dangling right now.

Hanged = Dangling previously.

Hung = Dangling Low and Large.

In a similar vein:
schedule, correctly pronounced shed-jew-ull

and what flying leap is up with lieutenant? Where the f is the eff? (lef ten ant??? wtf?)

I regularily break the propostion...errr, preposotion rule. Its' cumbersome, pointless and in spoken english can be gotten away without rather easily. (few seem to notice, those that do and actually say something need a new hobby.

Proper contractions (Its, Its', Tt's) drive me up the wall. Why is it neccessary to have more than obe variation?

Proper contractions (Its, Its', Tt's) drive me up the wall. Why is it neccessary to have more than obe variation?

So that you can tell the difference between "A good dog knows its master" and "A good dog knows it's (it is) master". If we didn't have that rule, there would be no way of keeping those dogs in check, and they would rule the world.

i just want to point out that english is a bastard language and deserves to have itself missused (and mis-spelt for that matter)

I've never heard that one being tought, neither in my German English classes, nor abroad in English speaking countries.
I've never heard of it before.


And what is up with the placement of punctuation marks and quotation marks?

"I told him not to show up here anymore", says father.
"I told him not to show up here anymore," says father.
"I told him not to show up here anymore." says father.

:confused:
I never got that one right and still stumble over it whenever I read something alike...
"I told him not to show up here anymore," says father. (American style)
BUT "I told him not to show up here anymore!" shouts father.

Hang = Dangling right now.

Hanged = Dangling previously.

Hung = Dangling Low and Large.
Nope. Hanged is executed by hanging. Hung with everything else.

There is a reason! I can see the light!
http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19961107

I don't understand 'enough', how can 'gh' make an 'f' sound?!?

I don't understand 'enough', how can 'gh' make an 'f' sound?!?
How about Colonel were does the 'r' sound come from?

and Luitenant pronounced 'lef-tenant'

Leicester is problematic for many Finns. We believe in logic around here...

How about Colonel were does the 'r' sound come from?

That's another good example. Must be a millitary thing...some secret code here? Fs pronounced but not actually written reffering to closet homos (fags)? The unwritten be de rigeur R a refference to right wing inclinations? (No I'm not seriously suggesting this, just having fun with paranoia)

Paragraphs, I HATE them, no matter how much i was taught how to put in Paragraphs it naver made sense to me, i've only recently began to work it out for myself.

How about 'bow'

'bow' (baow) bend down
'bow' (bo) archery
'bough' (baow) tree branch

The only things I never really got right was where to place commas

one, two, three, and four - why is there one in front of the and? It's already linked by and, so is there really a need for another comma?
I actually find it quite annoying when the comma isn't there just before "and". To me, it seems incomplete if it's missing.

And what is up with the placement of punctuation marks and quotation marks?

"I told him not to show up here anymore", says father.
"I told him not to show up here anymore," says father.
"I told him not to show up here anymore." says father.

:confused:
I never got that one right and still stumble over it whenever I read something alike...
It's illogical to me where commas are placed when quotation marks are involved.

This is how I write this stuff, and note how I handle the quotes and punctuation marks therearound:

Today I saw Joe at the store. I shouted to him, "Hey, Joe!", but he didn't respond. I was hurt, so I was all "Hey ya mofo, want me to slap ya 'cross the face, yo?!", but he didn't respond again. So then I walked away, yelling at him "Damn dude!".

I don't like putting a comma just before I start a quote, but sometimes it sounds better. And I like to put commas outside the quote, because to me, everything within and including the quote marks is one entity, and it seems stupid to place a foreign mark in the mix. And also, exclaimation points and question marks which are part of the quote shouldn't act as the ending punctuation mark. That's just odd. I handle parentheses the exact same way I handle quote marks.

Some things I find annoying:

* "I want X, Y and Z." (No comma before "and")
* "I wonder what they're doing?" (I dunno; do you? WTF is that question mark doing there?! That's a statement, not a question!)
* People not placing relative clauses after the noun it belongs to ("I saw that dog near the downtown Wal-Mart that bit me last summer.").
* People not using any hyphens to put together multi-worded adverbs and adjectives (Imagine "The 9-year-olds saw the epileptic-seizure-enducing blinky light." with no hyphens! Fuckin' confusing mess!).
* People mixing up they're/their/there, it's/its, you're/your, using numbers and/or single letters for whole words, *goes on forever*.

In a similar vein:
schedule, correctly pronounced shed-jew-ull
Everywhere but America, it is. We mostly say "SKED-jew-ull". It makes more sense to me too, because no one says "SHOOL" when they say "school", a word that starts the same way as "schedule".

and what flying leap is up with lieutenant? Where the f is the eff? (lef ten ant??? wtf?)
Um ... What the flying leap is up with you? Where the F did you hear the F? "Lieutenant" has always been "loo-TEN-unt" in my corner of the world. I've never heard it as if it were "left tenant". Maybe it's country differences? "Colonel" does happen to be "KER-null" though, which makes no fucking sense.

The fact that I'm not supposed to ever split an infinitive. Like the preposition rule, not an actual rule, but close enough.

Everywhere but America, it is. We mostly say "SKED-jew-ull". It makes more sense to me too, because no one says "SHOOL" when they say "school", a word that starts the same way as "schedule".


Um ... What the flying leap is up with you? Where the F did you hear the F? "Lieutenant" has always been "loo-TEN-unt" in my corner of the world. I've never heard it as if it were "left tenant". Maybe it's country differences? "Colonel" does happen to be "KER-null" though, which makes no fucking sense.


In Canada and the UK (and likely NZ and Australia too) Lieutenant is pronounced Leftenant. I have NO idea why. Though this only seems to be used (in Canada) when referring to hoi-polloi such as the Lieutenant-Governor. Many people drop the F, thankfully..though it can be nice ironic reminder that we still know how to spell and pronounce things properly (as opposed to America, where anything goes, it would seem)

I recently was wondering what is the exact rule on who/whom when should I use which? Doesn't make much of a difference being from the south anyway no one here would realize if I screwed it up I am just curious how not to.

The fact that I'm not supposed to ever split an infinitive. Like the preposition rule, not an actual rule, but close enough.
I constanly split infinitive and it really bothers my husband I think it is hilarious since he is a trekkie. :D
"To boldly go where no man has gone before"
should actually be "to go boldly..." but he never caught it until I pointed it out, even though he corrects me about the same thing daily :D

I have two that irritate me
The a and an in sentences when refering to a singular item (A dog, An dog)
Uses of apostrophes in plurals such as houses', I can never figure out why people do that

So then I walked away, yelling at him "Damn dude!".
No dot after exclamation mark. I would also put a colon after "him" (or comma).

I have two that irritate me
The a and an in sentences when refering to a singular item (A dog, An dog)
Uses of apostrophes in plurals such as houses', I can never figure out why people do that
Why the first one irritates you? "A" when the word (pronounciation) starts with consonant and "an" when it starts with vowel. A dog, an elephant, a yankee etc

A dog -> dogs
dog's -> dogs'
Maybe they have a reason.

A lot of what some of you are typing seems to be rules that people break, such as mixing up "your" and "you're" and using single letters (or numbers) for whole words. Or using apostrophes in plurals. I hate that stuff, too.
The preposition rule doesn't bother me too much, here in Pittsburgh people love to use the word "at" unnecessarily, such as:

"I saw him yesterday."
"Where at?"

Drives me insane.

Rules that I dislike in the English language are things like the words "thankfully" and "hopefully". (I also dislike the punctuation inside quotes thing.) Thankfully and hopefully are adverbs, not adjectives, but it's easily to (mis)use them as adjectives, like:

"Hopefully I'll get an 'A' on that test."
"Thankfully I got an 'A' on that test."

There may be more, but that's what I can think of for now.

I have two that irritate me
The a and an in sentences when refering to a singular item (A dog, An dog)
Uses of apostrophes in plurals such as houses', I can never figure out why people do that
a should be used when what you are refering to starts with a consenant (a dog) and an when it starts with a vowel(an octopus) or a vowel sound (an heir to the throne)

Violating the split infinitive and preposition rules shouldn't even be considered "lower" English. They were rules by men centuries dead who preferred Latin to English. It is not possible to construct a split infinitive or end a sentence in a preposition in Latin. But English is very different from Latin and it should be treated as such.

Lieutenant with an f is common everywhere outside the United States. I pronounce Schedule with a k-sound (I'm Canadian) and it bothers me to no end when my parents do the opposite. They also pronounce wh (in why, where, what, when, etc.) as hw, where I just use w.

Rules for quotations and punctuations differ between the US and elsewhere. In the US, you basically always punctuate inside the quote. Everywhere else, you put the punctuation in the quotes if it belongs to the quotes, and outside otherwise.

Apostrophes in plurals, to the person above, is used for the possessive plural. "There are some nice houses on this street. But those houses' front doors look like crap."

Most strange plurals like ox->oxen and goose->geese are leftovers from before England got stomped on by Frenchmen and had to take the French way of pluralising (adding an 's' instead of the Germanic rules).

The semicolon hates us for our freedoms.

Rules that I dislike in the English language are things like the words "thankfully" and "hopefully". (I also dislike the punctuation inside quotes thing.) Thankfully and hopefully are adverbs, not adjectives, but it's easily to (mis)use them as adjectives, like:

"Hopefully I'll get an 'A' on that test."
"Thankfully I got an 'A' on that test."

There may be more, but that's what I can think of for now.

I dislike those who claim "hopefully" is inappropriate to use in this context, especially since the similarly constructed "mercifully" is perfectly valid.

Silent Letters.

Why the first one irritates you? "A" when the word (pronounciation) starts with consonant and "an" when it starts with vowel. A dog, an elephant, a yankee etc

Only in the spoken language. For example: It has been an honour and a privilege.

Since the 'h' is silent when spoken, you have to use 'an' before it regardless of the consonant.

In Canada and the UK (and likely NZ and Australia too) Lieutenant is pronounced Leftenant. I have NO idea why. Though this only seems to be used (in Canada) when referring to hoi-polloi such as the Lieutenant-Governor. Many people drop the F, thankfully..though it can be nice ironic reminder that we still know how to spell and pronounce things properly (as opposed to America, where anything goes, it would seem)

Australia is mixed, although a lot of Army say Leftenant, while most civvies say Lieutenant

Only in the spoken language. For example: It has been an honour and a privilege.

Since the 'h' is silent when spoken, you have to use 'an' before it regardless of the consonant.
That what I meant with (pronunciation). I know I should've been more precise.

Is "Y" a vowel or a consonant in English?

That what I meant with (pronunciation). I know I should've been more precise.

Is "Y" a vowel or a consonant in English?
depends on the sound it is making
in yellow it is a consonant in happy a vowel

Damn the semicolon and all it's worth!

; :mp5:

Hang hung/hanged
I know the difference but I don't know why there has to be 2 past tenses.The rule on this these days is that if someone is hanged it should result in death while every other use is hung. Hung is older than hanged but a language reform some centuries ago gave us hanged and it seems to have hung on in the language, much like we cannot seem to get rid of "lite".

To amuse you: while a well lit room is good to read in, if you are in a well lighted room you should call the fire department.

The one that forces me to capitalize the H in Hitler, as if he was actually a PERSON.

There's the 'not starting a sentence with a conjunction' one. But I'm not sure if it's that terrible to do so.

Split infinitives are the ones that get me.


Only in the spoken language. For example: It has been an honour and a privilege.

Since the 'h' is silent when spoken, you have to use 'an' before it regardless of the consonant.
Traditionally, 'an' was also used in pronounciation before 'h' words which began with an unstressed syllable, such as 'hotel'. It's since become customary to pronounce the 'h' in 'hotel', so 'a hotel' is now considered passable grammar.

There's the little known 'u' rule, whereby you use 'a' and not 'an'. When the 'u' is pronounced as a 'y' sound, use 'a', not 'an'.
Thus, 'An unfortunate incident occurred when he tried to leapfrog a unicorn. It was a useless attempt.'

I have two that irritate me
The a and an in sentences when refering to a singular item (A dog, An dog)
Uses of apostrophes in plurals such as houses', I can never figure out why people do thats fairly simple "a" and "an", before a consonent use an "a" by itself, keep an initial vowel seperate from the "a" by making an "an". Of course some French words cause problems, properly it should be an hors d'ouvre but we accept a hors d'ouvre (the silent initial "h" means the initial sound is a vowel but few people care).

As for the apostrophe at the end of a plural, probably it should mean that what follows belongs to whatever the plural is. When we are talking about the path between Jim's house and Jane's house, it would sound silly to call it the houses's path so we call it the houses' path, although some people might call it the houseses path if they were really old.

The whole "whom" thing, I never really understood it.

Okay:

you can take a, b or c.
you can take a, b, or c.

The first one is:
you can take ab or ac
the second one is
you can take a or b or c

anything that means writing with punctuation

I constanly split infinitive and it really bothers my husband I think it is hilarious since he is a trekkie. :D
"To boldly go where no man has gone before"
should actually be "to go boldly..." but he never caught it until I pointed it out, even though he corrects me about the same thing daily :D

Most famous split infinitive in the English language. :D

Back when I wrote for my high school newspaper, I made an effort to always split at least one infinitive in every article I wrote.

On a somewhat related note, the passive voice is constantly spoken in by several of the guys in my dorm.

The whole "whom" thing, I never really understood it.

Who replaces he or she.
Whom replaces him or her.

Now you understand. :)

The double negative rule, such "I won't not run"

No real rule that ticks me off, just how English teachers, especially in high school, feel the need to tell the non-English oriented students that they were always wrong. There was always this girl who would have the same mistakes on her papers as I did but she never lost credit for it because she liked to read. That and i always got the 'comma splice' noted on my papers, but never was told what exactly they are or how to avoid them.

Come on, even if you're a grammar whore, I am sure there is at least one rule that you can't stand. I can't stand that preposition rule, which is why I ocassionally ignore that one. What is yours?

I agree with the preposition rule. I'm pretty sure it was just one guy who invented it (like the John Dryden and the split infinitives) and it ends up making a lot of sentences needlessly awkward.

"A girl from NYC and a girl from Dallas get on a plane and are seated next to each other. The girl from Dallas says 'So where y'all from?'

'Somewhere where we don't end our sentences with prepositions,' replies the girl from NYC with a sneer.

The girl from Dallas thinks for a moment and says 'hmmm, so, where y'all from, bitch?"

"This is the sort of English up with which I cannot put," -- Winston Churchill.

Who replaces he or she.
Whom replaces him or her.

Now you understand. :)
thank you thank you thank you
No one has explained it so clearly before!!!!
now I can correct my grammar loving husband on something :D

Only in the spoken language. For example: It has been an honour and a privilege.

Since the 'h' is silent when spoken, you have to use 'an' before it regardless of the consonant.

I don't know if it's a rule, but what the hell is up with people saying "an historic." That aggravates the hell out of me.

The 'h' in "historic" is not silent. It's "a historic" (or at least it should be) unless you've got a Brooklyn or Cockney accent.

Everytime I hear an anchor person on the news say "an historic" I can't help remembering the sketch in Monty Python where the guy dangling from wires claimed to be flying and demonstrated the absence of wires by passing through "an 'oop"

"A what"
"an 'oop, a bloody 'oop."
"Oh! A hoop."
"Oooooh, An Hoop."

I wish I was taught english well enough to know all the rules!
Yeah, me too! I am an American, so I pretty much had to educate myself. Most French people have a better grasp of English than we do. And do not get me started on how bad my french is...
Yeah, and I would really like to use contractions in formal writing. All of this stuff about how I can not use contractions does not make me very happy. I can not write any longer, because my fingers are sore!

I guess you could try teaching yourself grammar. There's a really good book called "Grammatically Correct" which I used and which is both clear and (as much as a book on grammer can be) interesting.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0898797764/002-1951368-4202424?v=glance

I could have sworn there was a book called "The Decline of the English Language and Why We Should... like, Care." But I can't find it anywhere.

"This is the sort of English up with which I cannot put," -- Winston Churchill.
Yeah, I think that rule is derived from Latin, the perfect language. In latin a preposition is a single word, so it really shouldn't be split.
--------------------
Contractions: don't leave home without them. Especially if you're going to the maternity ward!

Hang hung/hanged
I know the difference but I don't know why there has to be 2 past tenses.

I suppose taking a word that is commonly accepted as a strong verb and giving it the wrong past tense (a common mistake to those with broken English) in a certain context connects the idea that hanging is a barbaric way of executing someone that would appeal only to the ignorant. Especially in a lynching. There is no more brutal and backwards way to be executed than to be lunch.

The rules about split infinitives! Especially since when spoken, it is extreme awkward to avoid using split infinitives, yet in writing, you have to follow the rule to the word, even when it makes zero sense.

Come on, even if you're a grammar whore, I am sure there is at least one rule that you can't stand. I can't stand that preposition rule, which is why I ocassionally ignore that one. What is yours?

Someone was trying to convince me the other day that English is adaptable and changes with popular usage, but your remarks have proven that this is not quite true.

Someone was trying to convince me the other day that English is adaptable and changes with popular usage, but your remarks have proven that this is not quite true.
The only liberal element is likely the spelling rules, since depending on where you live, the rules do vary and yet, grammatical rules hold everywhere (even if not widely practiced due to user apathy).

The "do not end a sentance with a preposition" is a prescriptive holdover from Latin grammar.

Modern grammar is descriptive, so the 'rule' really isnt a rule.

It is, however, generally unacceptable to end sentances with prepositions in formal or educated language.

As for hung/hanged, it is one of the mant linguistic hoops through which one must jump to demonstrate good education and a strong command of english.

I would list some others as "enamored of" " acquiesce in" and, of course, using 'whom' instead of 'who' as the object in sentances.

Honestly though, the more nuanced and miniscule the grammatical rule, the more I enjoy it. I'm a linguist. :)

Someone was trying to convince me the other day that English is adaptable and changes with popular usage, but your remarks have proven that this is not quite true.


Then that someone was entirely correct.

Come on, even if you're a grammar whore, I am sure there is at least one rule that you can't stand. I can't stand that preposition rule, which is why I ocassionally ignore that one. What is yours?
I before E, except after C...and in words like neighbor and weigh.

I hate the rule, because I can, off the top of my head, come up with at least two exceptions to that rule. The first is "seize." The second, is just plain weird!

What about...

House---->Houses
Mouse---->Mice
Goose---->Geese
Moose---->Moose

how about
Cactus---->Cacti
Crocus---->Crocuses

I don't understand 'enough', how can 'gh' make an 'f' sound?!?

It doesn't, in ghost or in eight

I before E, except after C...and in words like neighbor and weigh.

I hate the rule, because I can, off the top of my head, come up with at least two exceptions to that rule. The first is "seize." The second, is just plain weird!


It isnt really a rule.

'ei' and 'ie' are not pronounced the same in many of the languages from which english has culled its vocabulary.

In german and romance words, the ei/ie dipthongs are quite different.

Many of the irregulars have roots in anglo-saxon words such as 'wyrd' (in the case of 'weird).

Also, spelling changed over time, and the pronunciations, in english, of ei and ie may have changed over time. There is some element of simple coincidence in the timing of when the spellings of certain words were standardized.

For the record, 'seize' is etymologically:

[a. OF. saisir, seisir (mod.F. saisir) to put in possession, to take possession of, to take hold of = Pr. sazir (whence It. sagire):—Frankish Latin (8th c.) sacWre in the phrase ad propriam (or ad proprietatem) sacire, to take into one's own possession, to appropriate. As the word sacire is replaced by ponere in another example of the formula, its source is commonly believed to be the Teut. *satjan to place: see set v.1]

women!

the only word i know with an "o" thats sounds like an "i"...

in contrast to woman.

It doesn't, in ghost or in eight


the "gh" in enough is a holdover from middle english spelling.

The word itself is rooted in old english.

I dont think the forum displays the necessary OE letters.

Learning about grammer was annoying enough, especially those videos we had to watch like "Conjunction Junction". Uhh!

Pretty much everyone who has posted on here should read 'Eats, Shoots and Leaves' - a book on the rules of the English language. It deals with (I think) every rule people here seem to dislike. The title's the punchline of a joke about a panda, in case you didn't know...
I just wish I had it to hand so I could comment on a few things here. One thing I do know is that lieutenant is pronounced 'leftenant' because that was how the word was originally spelled. The Americans adapted the spelling and that seems to have worked its way into the English language in general. So, technically, both are right.
Oh, and semicolons - use them instead of ', and' or ', but'. For example:
'The cat hadn't eaten today; it was hungry.'
or
'The cat had eaten today; it was still hungry.'

Forgot this one: 'I before E except after C'. Y'know, like in science...

women!

the only word i know with an "o" thats sounds like an "i"...

in contrast to woman.

I'm pretty sure that the 'wo' in both women and woman is supposed to be pronouced that same way - regional acents aside.

Come on, even if you're a grammar whore, I am sure there is at least one rule that you can't stand. I can't stand that preposition rule, which is why I ocassionally ignore that one. What is yours?

Placing commas/semi-colons/periods at the ends of titles inside of the ending apostrophe... not so bad for quotes, but does not make sense for titles.

Example:

I watched the movies "The English Patient," "Armageddon," "The Princess Bride," and "Revenge of the Nerds."

Why doesn't this make sense?

BECAUSE THE COMMA, SEMI-COLON OR PERIOD IS NOT PART OF THE TITLE... it's not Armageddon,... it's Armageddon

Therefore, since it is not part of the title, it should not go inside the quotation marks, which are used to denote the title.

suggestion: place periods, commas and semi-colons outside of the quotation marks immediately surrounding movie/TV show/magazine/song (etc.) titles:

You shouldn't watch "There's Something About Mary", "Armageddon", "Nightmare On Elm Street", or "Die Hard".

Placing commas/semi-colons/periods at the ends of titles inside of the ending apostrophe... not so bad for quotes, but does not make sense for titles.

Example:

I watched the movies "The English Patient," "Armageddon," "The Princess Bride," and "Revenge of the Nerds."

Why doesn't this make sense?

BECAUSE THE COMMA, SEMI-COLON OR PERIOD IS NOT PART OF THE TITLE... it's not Armageddon,... it's Armageddon

Therefore, since it is not part of the title, it should not go inside the quotation marks, which are used to denote the title.

suggestion: place periods, commas and semi-colons outside of the quotation marks immediately surrounding movie/TV show/magazine/song (etc.) titles:

You shouldn't watch "There's Something About Mary", "Armageddon", "Nightmare On Elm Street", or "Die Hard".

The comma is not a letter, the quotation marks do not imply that it is part of the title.

Here's a few of the ones I really hate...


is/are
was/were

Hang = Dangling right now.

Hanged = Dangling previously.

Hung = Dangling Low and Large.

Nope

Hang is present

Hung is an object

Hanged is when used to describe the act of a person dying from a process called hanging.

Um, I hate the...I don't hate any rules, save the parathenthesis, like first you use () then if you need to, [()] then {[()]}.

Here's a few of the ones I really hate...


is/are
was/were


So you hate the concept of verbs indicating number?

American Black English has almost made a paradigm of stripping the plural conjugation of "to be."

I know that some asian languages fail to indicate plurals in their verb conjugation, as well.

The comma is not a letter, the quotation marks do not imply that it is part of the title.

the comma is inside of the quotation marks... so it could be considered to be part of the title:

"The English Patient"

vs.

"The English Patient,"

the comma is inside of the quotation marks... so it could be considered to be part of the title:

"The English Patient"

vs.

"The English Patient,"


It is not the english idiom to end the titles of things with commas.

It is unthinkable that anyone would make the mistake you describe.

@ Helioterra and
@ Weserkyn

Thanks for replying on the comma-rules I'm having some trouble with.
(Aha! preposition-rule-break...)

...with which I'm having some trouble? Pffft...

(...)
"I told him not to show up here anymore," says father. (American style)
BUT "I told him not to show up here anymore!" shouts father.
The 1st one doesn't make sense to me, since the comma should be seperating the discourse from the rest but is incorporated into the speech?
Second one is just fine!

I actually find it quite annoying when the comma isn't there just before "and". To me, it seems incomplete if it's missing.
Aah! See, there musn't be a comma in German (at least according to the rules I learned - they changed'em after I left school and I haven't caught up just yet.

And thanks for your examples - That is pretty much how I'd be writing my sentences (and yes, I usually put punctuation marks within parentheses and after them to finish the sentece they are part of, see?).

Some things I find annoying:
(...)
* People not placing relative clauses after the noun it belongs to ("I saw that dog near the downtown Wal-Mart that bit me last summer.").
* People mixing up they're/their/there, it's/its, you're/your, using numbers and/or single letters for whole words, *goes on forever*.
There, that Wal-Mart just bit you in the arse - not the dog!
Oh yeah - not only confusing but utterly annoying 'cause I try to make sense out of it (which of course doesn't work!).
(...)
Rules that I dislike in the English language are things like the words "thankfully" and "hopefully". (I also dislike the punctuation inside quotes thing.) Thankfully and hopefully are adverbs, not adjectives, but it's easily to (mis)use them as adjectives, like:

"Hopefully I'll get an 'A' on that test."
"Thankfully I got an 'A' on that test."

There may be more, but that's what I can think of for now.
But aren't you using them as adverbs in your examples?

"I will hopefully get an 'A' on that test."
"Hopefully I will get an 'A' on that teat."
But:
"Thankful I took my paper marked with an 'A'."
(...)
I pronounce Schedule with a k-sound ...

Rules for quotations and punctuations differ between the US and elsewhere. In the US, you basically always punctuate inside the quote. Everywhere else, you put the punctuation in the quotes if it belongs to the quotes, and outside otherwise.
Mee too! :D

Ah - thanks for clarifying that!
The whole "whom" thing, I never really understood it.
That is actually one of the few rules I do understand since it is a remnant of old flexions that do not exist in English anymore (and are similar to German genitive constructions).
"Who the bell tolls for" - breaking two rules at once :D
I constanly split infinitive and it really bothers my husband I think it is hilarious since he is a trekkie. :D
"To boldly go where no man has gone before"
should actually be "to go boldly..." but he never caught it until I pointed it out, even though he corrects me about the same thing daily :D
Huh? Now that you mention it - it never occured to me!!! (Maybe because my mind is definitely not set on grammar rules whenever I hear that sentence...)
The double negative rule, such "I won't not run"
Actually, whereas the double-negative is considered "low standard", it derives from Old English where a double negative was very commonly used. Funny that the remnants of that can today be seen in a lot of "Black English".
(Big topic in my English seminars - ain't gonna give you no examples never, though)

Hang is present
Hung is an object
Hanged is when used to describe the act of a person dying from a process called hanging.
(...)
Mmh. I always thought that the following applies:
Let's hang him higher. (infinitive)
He hangs in the attic. (present tense)
You will be hanged at dawn. (past tense participle old style)
He is well hung (adjective derived from past tense participle?)
I hung my coat on the hook. (past tense participle)

Phew - I really should have been back earlier to avoid such a build-up of replies I wanted to comment on. Hope you appreciate my thoughts anyway :D

I hate the poetic licence rule. Why the hell can e.e. cummins do whatever the hell he pleases, and I can't. That blows!!!

I hate the poetic licence rule. Why the hell can e.e. cummins do whatever the hell he pleases, and I can't. That blows!!!


If you are writing poetry, or simply writing for the pleasure of it, you can by all means write any way you like.

If you are writing formally, as mr cummins was not, you do so at your own peril.

I once had a school teacher tell me that "licence" was spelled incorrectly on our documents, and that it should be "license". I had to explain to her that "licence" is a noun and "license" is a verb. You produce your driver's licence to prove you are licensed by the state to drive a vehicle.

Similarly, "practice" is a noun and "practise" is a verb. You go to choir practice to practise your singing.

Subjective and objective are not difficult concepts. I, you, he, she, we, you, they, who...all are subjects. I went, you went, he went, she went, we went, you went, they went, who went. I hit the ball, he hit the ball, who hit the ball.

Me, you, him, her, us, you, them, whom...are objects. With me, with you, with him, with her, with us, with you, with them, with whom. The ball hit me, the ball hit him, whom did the ball hit.

Who went to the store with you? (subject of the verb, the "who" is the one "wenting") With whom did you go to the store? ("you" is the subject here, therefore "whom" is objective, not subjective).

"John came to the game with Brian and I" is incorrect. It should be "John came to the game with Brian and me" because you cannot say "John came with I" but rather "John came with me".

It should be:
I have never broken it that of which I am aware.
Or, if you don't want to sound like a jackass:

"I have never knowingly broken it." ;)

The rule on this these days is that if someone is hanged it should result in death while every other use is hung. Hung is older than hanged but a language reform some centuries ago gave us hanged and it seems to have hung on in the language, much like we cannot seem to get rid of "lite".
Reminds me of a joke - a woman answer her door to find a Mormon standing there. He asks her, "Do you have time to listen to the word of God?".
She looks at him and asks, "Are you one of them Mormons who's allowed to have lots of wives?".
"Yes I am", he replies,"In fact I have six"
"Well, that's disgusting!", she declares,"You should be bloody well hung!"
"Oh I am, madam, I am".