NationStates Jolt Archive

Does gay pride, as in gay pride marches, make sense?

Let me present my argument - homosexuality, IMHO, isn't anything wrong or to be ashamed of. Homosexuals should not be discriminated against. Now that I've made that clear, let me move on...

To me, people should only take pride in something they've worked to achieve, such as athletic or intellectual accomplishments. So how can someone be proud of being gay? To me, this makes no more sense than being proud of being left handed, having blonde hair, being caucasian, or being heterosexual. It's just something you are...

Naturally, the main point of gay pride marches is to promote understanding and acceptance, as well as to combat prejudice, hate and misconceptions - but, that being the case, isn't "gay pride" a misleading term?

Please discuss, in a civilised manner if at all possible. ;)

P.S. First person to bring religion into the conversation gets a three point penalty. First person to ask "how can homosexulaity be genetic if gays can't reproduce" wins the ICUTFO award (I can't understand the f***ing obvious award)...:p

The term is misleading but on the other hand, I'm sure that there are people who are proud to be gay.

Does anything people do make sence?

No more than "Straight Pride" does, I suppose.

Does anything people do make sence?


Masturbation makes perfect sense.

why doesn't gay pride make sense?! There is such thing as straight pride :)

Masturbation makes perfect sense.
Touche, BS.

why doesn't gay pride make sense?! There is such thing as straight pride :)


Yah, but who the hell walks around telling..."Dont hate..Im straight!"?

Touche, BS.


OH!

AND wiping yourself after pooping.

That makes perfect sense.

OH!

AND wiping yourself after pooping.

That makes perfect sense.

I am a proud defecator. Get used to it.

It's not so much the pride about being gay, it's pride in being gay in our society. Gays often find themselves surrounded by narrow-minded people that would prefer the gays don't exist. People that *want* the gays to ashamed of themselves. The pride thing shows that gays are not ashamed but, indeed, proud that they stand up against bigotry, so that they can be true to themselves and be who they are.

Or something like that. :)

why doesn't gay pride make sense?! There is such thing as straight pride :)

There shouldn't be.

It's like pride in your country's past. Why? You had nothing to do with it.

Well, I'm gay, and I tend not to think out-and-out 'pride' makes a lot of sense. Though I mostly see it was just being proud of who you are, with being gay just a small part of that.

However, the outward 'pride' that is seen a lot nowadays, I think, isn't so much anything except a lack of shame and a counter to the feeling that is still very prevalent today in society that we should be ashamed. That feeling that we should be ashamed of being gay is still very widespread and I feel that certain big, flashy proclamations of 'pride' are necessary to counter it. As the general animosity continues to die away, I think, so will the more obvious demonstrations of "gay pride."

It's not so much the pride about being gay, it's pride in being gay in our society. Gays often find themselves surrounded by narrow-minded people that would prefer the gays don't exist. People that *want* the gays to ashamed of themselves. The pride thing shows that gays are not ashamed but, indeed, proud that they stand up against bigotry, so that they can be true to themselves and be who they are.

Or something like that. :)


Yah, but to me, your definition is the same as being a Liberal in this country.

It's not so much the pride about being gay, it's pride in being gay in our society. Gays often find themselves surrounded by narrow-minded people that would prefer the gays don't exist. People that *want* the gays to ashamed of themselves. The pride thing shows that gays are not ashamed but, indeed, proud that they stand up against bigotry, so that they can be true to themselves and be who they are.

Or something like that. :)

Exactly. Gay pride is against all the people who believe it is shameful to be gay. We don't need straight pride because noone thinks being straight is shameful.

I am a proud defecator. Get used to it.


do you wad...or fold?

Meh, people were trying to combat the stigma of being gay, and since pride is the oposite of shame 'gay pride' was the natural rallying call. 'Gay unashamedness' or something like that just doesn't have the same appeal as 'gay pride' :p

But it's definitely true that being proud and not being ashamed are two very different things, and to me at least the concept of 'gay pride' is pretty silly sounding.

do you wad...or fold?

I use a Bidet, you barbaric skunk ape!

I use a Bidet, you barbaric skunk ape!


arent those those things where its "All you Can Eat?"

arent those those things where its "All you Can Eat?"

Only in France.

I see no point in being proud of or ashamed of your sexuality. I'm bisexual, but you don't see me parading around about it.

arent those those things where its "All you Can Eat?"
I think it will be a good many months before I can eat at a 'buffet' again thanks to that last comment. :(

I think it will be a good many months before I can eat at a 'buffet' again thanks to that last comment. :(


"Buffet?"

Isnt that the thing that Miss Muffet sat on?

I see no point in being proud of or ashamed of your sexuality. I'm bisexual, but you don't see me parading around about it.
But you just did. No at least I am tasteful enough to not go around bragging about being a lesbian.

In my opinion people shouldnt take Pride in anything.

Pride -
1. A sense of one's own proper dignity or value; self-respect.
2. Pleasure or satisfaction taken in an achievement, possession, or association: parental pride.
3.Arrogant or disdainful conduct or treatment; haughtiness.

Just three definitions. Pride in my opinion is Arrogance, Thinking you are better then someone, Telling someone your value. Why would playing Sports or Intelecutal accomplishments constitute your value? Pride just leads to Conflict.

Well I live in Manchester, the English one, and there was a gay pride festival over the weekend. It culminates in a rather tasteless parade of gentlemen in dresses. I am not gay, however I do have two very close friends who are and both of them hate the festival and denounce it as tacky and unnessecary (i cant spell that word). I think people should always be proud of what they are, but Gay Pride on that scale makes no sense to me. If the gay community wants to fit in with the rest of society and be accepted by all, what is the real point in a glitzy parade through the centre of Manchester, celebrating how different they are? Many people have campaigned for many years that sexuality not be a contentious issue and something that marks a person, but this festival and this parade are, in my view, a reversal of all this hard work.

Exactly. Gay pride is against all the people who believe it is shameful to be gay. We don't need straight pride because noone thinks being straight is shameful.

There are huge reasons for gay pride, and I have taken part in these events before. The above mentioned is one of them. Being straight is not viewed as shameful. Being gay is. We will organize these events to open minds, and help people understand who we are (now I know there are certain elements of these parades that are pretty.. whoa... naked... hah).

This is necessary to show people we exist. We are not to thrown away like trash, as we have been for decades. We do want to be treated equally, and to be invisible like some ignorant heterosexuals here suggest would be a great crime against civil advancement.

First thought that comes to mind with the words "Gay Pride" is a question about how someone can invest so much of their identity in what turns them on in the bedroom. It's like "Kink Pride". This probably has a lot to do with having observed more than one "Pride" parade, and the weirded out sensation of wondering:

1. Isn't that getup intensely uncomfortable?

and

2. How can these people expect anyone to treat them seriously when they're being lewd, obnoxious, assholes in public?

Seriously, now, think about some of the more obnoxious things you've seen at a "Pride" parade (stuff that would make the merrymakers at Mardis Gras blush in embarassment...), and tell me, does this present a positive, or negative, image in the minds of Ma and Pa Mundane? 'Cause guess what: That's what they REMEMBER afterward. Two guys in leather chaps and g-strings doing the bump-n-grind on the street isn't serving the Gay rights movement at all-it isolates and marginalizes your issues and makes things like Adoption, Gay marraige, AIDS awareness, and anti-discrimination much, much, more difficult to present in the general public. Consider the election of 2004, in which a number of states rejected bills to legalize Gay marraige... by overwhelming majorities.

"Pride" Must include "Dignity" if it wants to be taken seriously. Fratboy antics and obnoxious sloganeering gains little to no postive traction.
Instead, it serves enemies all-too-well, by making the Gay movement look ridiculous at best, and possibly dangerous/threatening at worst...because instead of "normal" people, it's a drooling freak-face that asserts "This is what I'm REALLY LIKE" (a lie, but a potent one in the hands of Fallwellite crusaders and Swaggart-braggarts.)

"Pride" parades (and the antics associated with them) are an 'In-your-face" propoganda gold-mine for Fundamentalist Christian Preachers, anti-gay bigots, and other thugs. Instead of inventing lies, they can use the behaviours of their chosen targets-in public, to fuel their hate-machine.

Yah, but to me, your definition is the same as being a Liberal in this country.
So can we start having "liberal pride" marches? Because I'll be damned if I'm putting my liberality in the closet. :D

I personally always understood gay pride as an open opposition to the "Gays ought to be ashamed for being gay"-thought, that used to dominate western society until recent years.
The parades are just a celebration of lifestyle, they are public platforms to display community, diversity, issues, and just plain fun. I kind of like them, but of course not everybody has to agree with them.
But I wouldn't say that they exclude straights in any way... if you want to come along, just do it. Excluding straights would be like excluding men from the women's liberation movement or whites from demonstrations for the rights of blacks. Bloody stupid

Well, I'll note that I understand gay 'pride' as a reaction to being told not to be yourself for so long.

On the other hand, I don't understand pride day, pride parades, or African American History Month. What do these have in common?

"We're the same as you, don't judge us or even notice this difference. It shouldn't affect anything! Okay, now look how special we are."

It seems rather hypocritical to me.

On the other hand, I notice the double standard where it's okay for a straight couple to kiss, hold hands, and show affection in public but if gay/lesbians do it, then people assume they are attempting to draw attention rather than just enjoying being around eachother. Personally, I think that's the right time to have 'pride'. If they don't say anything or act rudely then ignore them. If they bitch at you shove it back in their face. That's pride. Dancing around half naked screaming 'look at me!' to the news cameras is not.

So how can someone be proud of being gay? To me, this makes no more sense than being proud of being left handed, having blonde hair, being caucasian, or being heterosexual. It's just something you are...


Your argument is amusing and correct. Yet, I think that few instances of discrimination against people who are blond, caucasian, heterosexual, left-handed, etc. have been recorded. The discrimination against people of color, people of one or the other belief (ha ha, I didn't say the R-word), against people who are gay happens to be rife. Perhaps 'pride' is an inappropriate word, but the idea that one is secure in one's sexuality and that one is accepted for being whatever one is - to me - is a good lesson for all of us.

One thing I don't get is why it bothers people so what it's called and why it bothers them so much that the parade is, in fact, a parade, and people are supposed to dress up and act like it's a, you guessed it, a fucking parade.

It's like the fact that the parade is a culmination of, usually, a week long paradeless period completely escapes these people, and how they seem to forget the whole point of "pride" when they try to tell people to be ashamed of the parade, which these "I'm so bloody bothered" ninnies seem to be so hung up on.

Oh, and that whole crap about "you have to act like everybody else to be accepted" just goes to show how little of a clue these people have. :rolleyes:

/end rant

No more than "Straight Pride" does, I suppose.
I think it makes a heck of a lot more sense than a 'straight pride' parade.

In my mind, gay pride is like this:

1. Bring it out into the open, so that gays don't feel like they have to hide (or change) anymore.

2. Show solidarity with other people who are part of a historically (and currently, in many nations) persecuted group.

3. When gays are afforded the same rights as straights, gay pride will no longer need to be a public awareness and solidarity spectacle.

If you really want to get rid of gay pride....just give them their damn rights and they won't need to shove your face in the stench of your prejudice.

First you fight, then they laugh at you, then you win. Then you don't need parades.

why doesn't gay pride make sense?! There is such thing as straight pride :)
You mean the pride that allows straights to snog in public, on tv, in movies, in advertisements with no fear that people will bash them or call them evil? Yeah. Straight pride.

I see no point in being proud of or ashamed of your sexuality. I'm bisexual, but you don't see me parading around about it.
Why not? Bis are disliked by gays AND straights...and stereotyped as being total sluts and incapable of commitment. BISEXUAL PRIDE!!!!

But no, seriously...gay pride usually includes the LGBTT community...so yeah, plenty of bis take part too.

In my opinion people shouldnt take Pride in anything.

Pride -
1. A sense of one's own proper dignity or value; self-respect.
2. Pleasure or satisfaction taken in an achievement, possession, or association: parental pride.
3.Arrogant or disdainful conduct or treatment; haughtiness.

Just three definitions. Pride in my opinion is Arrogance, Thinking you are better then someone, Telling someone your value. Why would playing Sports or Intelecutal accomplishments constitute your value? Pride just leads to Conflict.
Telling someone your value is important when the people you are telling your value to have told you that your are worthless all your life, based solely on what gender you happen to be attracted to.

There is such thing as straight pride :)

Yeah ... but the parades are lame.

First thought that comes to mind with the words "Gay Pride" is a question about how someone can invest so much of their identity in what turns them on in the bedroom. It's like "Kink Pride". This probably has a lot to do with having observed more than one "Pride" parade, and the weirded out sensation of wondering:

1. Isn't that getup intensely uncomfortable?

and

2. How can these people expect anyone to treat them seriously when they're being lewd, obnoxious, assholes in public?

*snip*

"Pride" Must include "Dignity" if it wants to be taken seriously. Fratboy antics and obnoxious sloganeering gains little to no postive traction.

Hmmm. Funny. All those Spring Break parties and Mardi Gras riots, with chicks flashing their tits, drunken frat boys puking in the streets, then groping women...that doesn't seem to hurt the straight image all that much....

I think you are holding gay people to a standard you are not willing to set for straights. Shame on you.

Fundamentalists that hate gays for being gay will find ways of justifying their hatred, with or without parades. Telling gays to 'button up and be discreet' is nothing more than returning them to the closet where they've been forced to reside for centuries. Just what the fundies would like most.

Mardi Gras riots

Technically, Mardi Gras is the gayest of the gay events. Heteros just haven't caught on yet. ;)

Well, I'll note that I understand gay 'pride' as a reaction to being told not to be yourself for so long.

On the other hand, I don't understand pride day, pride parades, or African American History Month. What do these have in common?

"We're the same as you, don't judge us or even notice this difference. It shouldn't affect anything! Okay, now look how special we are."

It seems rather hypocritical to me.

I'll take it from a Native perspective (since I'm not black, or gay). Yes, we want to be integrated, and treated the same as other people, but we also want our history and our culture to be recognised as unique and inherently valuable. Not equality as in: treat us all exactly the same. We aren't the same. We deserve the same opportunities, we deserve to be treated with dignity, and with humanity...but that doesn't make us homogenous. Equity. Fairness. And yeah, some of us are idiots and assholes. Just like some of you are.

One thing I don't get is why it bothers people so what it's called and why it bothers them so much that the parade is, in fact, a parade, and people are supposed to dress up and act like it's a, you guessed it, a fucking parade.

It's like the fact that the parade is a culmination of, usually, a week long paradeless period completely escapes these people, and how they seem to forget the whole point of "pride" when they try to tell people to be ashamed of the parade, which these "I'm so bloody bothered" ninnies seem to be so hung up on.


You've brought up a good point. People hear 'gay pride' and instantly think of parades, as though that is all there is too it. Gay pride is usually a week to 10 days of activities, workshops, seminars, confereneces, etc...all very professionally done, all very soberly acted out. The parade is the time to cut loose and be silly. Kind of like human rights conferences often end in a jam session and a beer gardens...or teachers conferences end in a party and beer gardens...and doctor's conferences end in...you get the drift. Gay pride is about much more than the flashy parade.

Technically, Mardi Gras is the gayest of the gay events. Heteros just haven't caught on yet. ;)
Shhhhhhhh!

Does gay pride, as in gay pride marches, make sense?

Let me present my argument - homosexuality, IMHO, isn't anything wrong or to be ashamed of. Homosexuals should not be discriminated against. Now that I've made that clear, let me move on...

To me, people should only take pride in something they've worked to achieve, such as athletic or intellectual accomplishments. So how can someone be proud of being gay? To me, this makes no more sense than being proud of being left handed, having blonde hair, being caucasian, or being heterosexual. It's just something you are...

Naturally, the main point of gay pride marches is to promote understanding and acceptance, as well as to combat prejudice, hate and misconceptions - but, that being the case, isn't "gay pride" a misleading term?

Please discuss, in a civilised manner if at all possible. ;)


It's just like a Black Pride Parade or a St. Patrick's Day Parade (some call them Irish Pride Parades since they have little of nothing to do with St. Patrick).

Let everyone have a parade. let everyone be proud of what they are. I think that as homosexuality becomes more acceptable you will see a decline in the parades.

There really isn't a point to saying "We're QUEER AND WE'RE HERE", when everyone's response is "Yes, we know. Good for you, now let me eat my muffin dear and do reconsider those see-thru pants."

2. How can these people expect anyone to treat them seriously when they're being lewd, obnoxious, assholes in public?

The non-gay community has no shortage of people who are lewd, obnoxious assholes in public all the time. Why should we hold gays to a higher standard?

:p

I'm not really sure if it makes any sence, but there is still so much hate towards gays.
It was really funny, I did a mini expierament in my school (when I was very bored). I was taking note of all the 'omg i luv this person (male)' graffiti in the bathroom, so I took out my pencil and wrote "I love Jessica" on the wall (this is a female bathroom mind you, no I'm not 'gay', and "Jessica" isn't a real person)
I went back and checked it today, after only 3 days what I had written was erased, but several markings in various colored sharpies were in the area saying 'sicko' 'lesbians should die' etc etc...
then again I live in a redneck homophobic school... ah well, I've planned out other random bathroom grafitti that I will leave such as 'nazis were right' and 'pro-choice' XD

I'm not really sure if it makes any sence, but there is still so much hate towards gays.
It was really funny, I did a mini expierament in my school (when I was very bored). I was taking note of all the 'omg i luv this person (male)' graffiti in the bathroom, so I took out my pencil and wrote "I love Jessica" on the wall (this is a female bathroom mind you, no I'm not 'gay', and "Jessica" isn't a real person)
I went back and checked it today, after only 3 days what I had written was erased, but several markings in various colored sharpies were in the area saying 'sicko' 'lesbians should die' etc etc...
then again I live in a redneck homophobic school... ah well, I've planned out other random bathroom grafitti that I will leave such as 'nazis were right' and 'pro-choice' XD

Not entirely scientific, but you nailed it. Imagine if a guy did that. Now imagine he got caught. He'd probably be beat to near death.

I'm not really sure if it makes any sence, but there is still so much hate towards gays.
It was really funny, I did a mini expierament in my school (when I was very bored). I was taking note of all the 'omg i luv this person (male)' graffiti in the bathroom, so I took out my pencil and wrote "I love Jessica" on the wall (this is a female bathroom mind you, no I'm not 'gay', and "Jessica" isn't a real person)
I went back and checked it today, after only 3 days what I had written was erased, but several markings in various colored sharpies were in the area saying 'sicko' 'lesbians should die' etc etc...
then again I live in a redneck homophobic school... ah well, I've planned out other random bathroom grafitti that I will leave such as 'nazis were right' and 'pro-choice' XD

So you're essentially a bathroom troll?

Personally, I don't think anyone should be proud of how they were born, as it was simply the hand that was dealt to them. It is folly. Even as far as achievements go, one shouldn't be overly prideful.

As far as raising awareness in society, I'm all for it. But I must agree with the OP that "Gay Pride" is somewhat missleading.

(this is a female bathroom mind you, no I'm not 'gay', and "Jessica" isn't a real person)

I find it very odd that you felt the need to qualify as such ...

So you're essentially a bathroom troll?
Hehehehehe...that is a very apt term. And trolling truly can be an art...

I find it very odd that you felt the need to qualify as such ...
Social conditioning. And an example of why gay pride isn't ready to fade away.

Does gay pride, as in gay pride marches, make sense?

Let me present my argument - homosexuality, IMHO, isn't anything wrong or to be ashamed of. Homosexuals should not be discriminated against. Now that I've made that clear, let me move on...

To me, people should only take pride in something they've worked to achieve, such as athletic or intellectual accomplishments. So how can someone be proud of being gay? To me, this makes no more sense than being proud of being left handed, having blonde hair, being caucasian, or being heterosexual. It's just something you are...

Naturally, the main point of gay pride marches is to promote understanding and acceptance, as well as to combat prejudice, hate and misconceptions - but, that being the case, isn't "gay pride" a misleading term?

Please discuss, in a civilised manner if at all possible. ;)

P.S. First person to bring religion into the conversation gets a three point penalty. First person to ask "how can homosexulaity be genetic if gays can't reproduce" wins the ICUTFO award (I can't understand the f***ing obvious award)...:p


It makes perfect sense, and here's WHY...
We are out to make others aware that we exist...we are NOT being treated equally under the law...and if people want these gay pride events to stop, then they will stop oppressing us, and thus, obviate the need for these public displays.

One only creates change by pointing out the disparities that exist, the unfairness that exists. The situation will not change unless people are forced to confront the disparity and the unfairness. Blacks were not given their rights because they "sat down and shut up." Nor will gays, and by extension, lesbians, bisexual, and transgender people like me...be given our rights if we simply sit down, shut up, and go away.

If we do that, people will have every right to assume we are satisfied with the status quo, so why change it. We must stand up to remind them we are NOT satisfied with the status quo, and we are NOT going to go away until the unfairness and the disparities, and the oppression are acknowledged and DEALT WITH. We are mad as hell and we aren't going to take it anymore. That is what Gay Pride is saying.

We are saying that we refuse to apologize for what we are, we have nothing to apologize for. We refuse to be ashamed of what we are, we have nothing to be ashamed of. IN FACT...if anyone has anything to be ashamed of or apologetic for...it is those people who keep us beaten down, oppressed, and left as second-class citizens.

We demand for our rights, and our dignity to be respected. We ask for no special rights, only the rights the rest of you take for granted. and when we get them, most, if not all of us...will be happy to go away, and simply live our lives. Most of us would rather do that now...but the current atmosphere of bigotry, prejudice, and hatred...and the current policy of unfairness and disparity does not allow us to just get on with our own lives and leave everyone else alone.

All we have ever wanted is the ability to live our own lives, as we see fit...without harrassment, without special obstacles being thrown in our path...and with the same rights and dignity accorded to any other human being. I do not believe our demands are at all unreasonable.

In short, give us what we want, and we go away. Continue to oppose us, continue to oppress us, continue to deny us our rights and human dignity, and we will continue to stay in your face until you change.

Social conditioning. And an example of why gay pride isn't ready to fade away.

Ah! Nod ... good point.

I think my favorite example of this is when two guys go to a movie and make *absolutely* sure they sit with an empty seat between them ... otherwise their elbows might touch and everyone will think they're fags.

I'm not really sure if it makes any sence, but there is still so much hate towards gays.
It was really funny, I did a mini expierament in my school (when I was very bored). I was taking note of all the 'omg i luv this person (male)' graffiti in the bathroom, so I took out my pencil and wrote "I love Jessica" on the wall (this is a female bathroom mind you, no I'm not 'gay', and "Jessica" isn't a real person)
I went back and checked it today, after only 3 days what I had written was erased, but several markings in various colored sharpies were in the area saying 'sicko' 'lesbians should die' etc etc...
then again I live in a redneck homophobic school... ah well, I've planned out other random bathroom grafitti that I will leave such as 'nazis were right' and 'pro-choice' XD

reminds me of an old poem...

People who write on bathroom walls
Roll their shit into little balls
Folks who read those lines of wit
Eat those little balls of shit.

I'm not really sure if it makes any sence, but there is still so much hate towards gays.
It was really funny, I did a mini expierament in my school (when I was very bored). I was taking note of all the 'omg i luv this person (male)' graffiti in the bathroom, so I took out my pencil and wrote "I love Jessica" on the wall (this is a female bathroom mind you, no I'm not 'gay', and "Jessica" isn't a real person)
I went back and checked it today, after only 3 days what I had written was erased, but several markings in various colored sharpies were in the area saying 'sicko' 'lesbians should die' etc etc...
then again I live in a redneck homophobic school... ah well, I've planned out other random bathroom grafitti that I will leave such as 'nazis were right' and 'pro-choice' XD
That is so brilliant...and Fass, why would that make her a bathroom troll?

I am 'proud to be gay' in nearly the same way someone can be 'proud to be different' or 'proud to be African-American' or 'proud to be European' or even 'proud to be American' (I'm not particularly proud to be American, but I am proud to be British/Russian, which makes up my entire family background). The difference is, as others have said before me, the inequality. (Of course people could always be racist, as well, but that's not my point.)

Gay pride isn't all parades. I have pride every day, even if I don't show it. (Well at the moment I am showing it, I am wearing rainbow knee-socks with pride pins all over them, but I'm not showing them off in public, or anything...)

Quote from some place I forgot:
'When I was little, I asked my parents why, if there was a Mother's Day and a Father's Day, there wasn't a Kid's Day. They replied, "Because every day is Kids' Day." So when people say "If there's a Gay Pride Day, why not have a Straight Pride Day?" Well, because every day is Straight Day.'

As long as you don't take things to extremes and shove it down other people's throats, is it wrong to be proud of who you are? That you are just slightly different to everyone else? That you are unique? Who really cares what the criterea for being different are? Isn't it enough that you can look at yourself in the mirror and think that you're actually doing okay? Be mildly pleased that you can still do that even though "society" (whoever that is) tells you that you should be fitting this particular pattern?

At Marti-gras you will see a couple, dressed in leather, doing a bump and grind, and exposing themselves to a crowd. Ma and Pa Iowa just shake their heads, and maybe laugh a little. When we get that sort of mundane reaction from Ma and Pa Iowa, then maybe we've achieved some level of equality.

Our celebration of "Pride" has to be "in-your-face" because if all we did was show off gay CEO's or gay professional and Olympic athletes, or nice, safe gay suburban couples we would be lying to the world, and ourselves. Also, Gay Pride is not a celebration of what we do in the bedroom. It is a fight against descrimination, just as Black Pride was a fight against descrimination. We are being killed, fired, beat up, denied housing and denied rights - this is not the time to be quiet. Let Ma and Pa Iowa see enough, and they will come to realise they are not the norm, just a part of what is normal.

First thought that comes to mind with the words "Gay Pride" is a question about how someone can invest so much of their identity in what turns them on in the bedroom. It's like "Kink Pride". This probably has a lot to do with having observed more than one "Pride" parade, and the weirded out sensation of wondering:

1. Isn't that getup intensely uncomfortable?

and

2. How can these people expect anyone to treat them seriously when they're being lewd, obnoxious, assholes in public?

Seriously, now, think about some of the more obnoxious things you've seen at a "Pride" parade (stuff that would make the merrymakers at Mardis Gras blush in embarassment...), and tell me, does this present a positive, or negative, image in the minds of Ma and Pa Mundane? 'Cause guess what: That's what they REMEMBER afterward. Two guys in leather chaps and g-strings doing the bump-n-grind on the street isn't serving the Gay rights movement at all-it isolates and marginalizes your issues and makes things like Adoption, Gay marraige, AIDS awareness, and anti-discrimination much, much, more difficult to present in the general public. Consider the election of 2004, in which a number of states rejected bills to legalize Gay marraige... by overwhelming majorities.

"Pride" Must include "Dignity" if it wants to be taken seriously. Fratboy antics and obnoxious sloganeering gains little to no postive traction.
Instead, it serves enemies all-too-well, by making the Gay movement look ridiculous at best, and possibly dangerous/threatening at worst...because instead of "normal" people, it's a drooling freak-face that asserts "This is what I'm REALLY LIKE" (a lie, but a potent one in the hands of Fallwellite crusaders and Swaggart-braggarts.)

"Pride" parades (and the antics associated with them) are an 'In-your-face" propoganda gold-mine for Fundamentalist Christian Preachers, anti-gay bigots, and other thugs. Instead of inventing lies, they can use the behaviours of their chosen targets-in public, to fuel their hate-machine.

I think maybe "pride" in this context is meant to mean more "absence of shame".

Proud to be who you are? Nothing wrong with that

Ah! Nod ... good point.

I think my favorite example of this is when two guys go to a movie and make *absolutely* sure they sit with an empty seat between them ... otherwise their elbows might touch and everyone will think they're fags.
Yet somehow it's okay to piss within inches of one another, with penis exposed to the other's eye........I always found THAT weird!

I think it only because gays was repressed for so long. It seems to be more a case of 'I'm gay and you can't repress me anymore about it' rather than true pride of their homosexuality

That is so brilliant...and Fass, why would that make her a bathroom troll?

Because a troll makes statements with the intent to inflame others, provoking an emotional response.

I think it's great. But it's still trolling. By definition.

While being gay in itself isnt something to be proud of any more than being straight is, many gay people have achieved an unsurpassed level of fabulousness, and they should be proud.

Does gay pride, as in gay pride marches, make sense?
To me, people should only take pride in something they've worked to achieve, such as athletic or intellectual accomplishments. So how can someone be proud of being gay?
In my opinion, the gay pride parades are there to show the world that it's okay to be gay and that it isn't anything to be ashamed of, as you said. It's an attempt to break through the social stigma of shame by openly showing that you are not ashamed, in fact that you are proud, to be gay. The psychological effect of that makes perfect sense.

Here in New York City hardly a week goes by when SOME group or other doesn't have a parade. Each of these parades celebrates some culture or event that these groups are proud of... Dominican Day, St. Patricks Day, The Feast of St. Rosalia, Puerto Rico, The Mermaid Parade, just to name a few... Many of them include fancy, outlandish and sexually provocative costuming. And no one says a word about how offensive and disgusting they are.

To denigrate the Gay Pride parade for exhibiting the exact same behavior is simply proof of how much gay pride is still necessary. If a group such as the LGBT community can withstand as much prejudice as they do, and still say "we are strong and will not be destroyed by your hate" then they have earned that pride. They are proud of themselves not for their sexuality, a trait with which they were born, but rather for having the strength to stand up and be who they are through the storm of hatred with which they are constantly surrounded. We teach kids to be proud of themselves for getting back up when they are knocked down. How can we say that any person should not be proud for the same reason as an adult?

I'll take it from a Native perspective (since I'm not black, or gay). Yes, we want to be integrated, and treated the same as other people, but we also want our history and our culture to be recognised as unique and inherently valuable. Not equality as in: treat us all exactly the same. We aren't the same. We deserve the same opportunities, we deserve to be treated with dignity, and with humanity...but that doesn't make us homogenous. Equity. Fairness. And yeah, some of us are idiots and assholes. Just like some of you are.

The problem with that argument is that if we had national Caucasian History Month there would be a riot. While we can have the Hispanic, Native American, Latino, etc... college funds if we had a Caucasian only one it would also be considered racist. I'm not saying that you need to forget who you are. I'm saying there doesn't have to be something set aside just for you to bring it to the fore.

If I ever strike it rich, which is doubtful as I lack the money lust or the urge to play the lotto, I'd really like to see the middl-class whiteboy college fund get set up and publicized to see how many people protested it or tried to declare it racist.

Right now at my job there are 2 of us who are gay (maybe 3 or 4, but only 2 of us including me that I know of). I don't act stereotypically 'flaming'. The other guy here does. You know what? I literally watch him become more of a stereotype if he thinks he might get in trouble with management. The reason, and he admits this, is that it will look bad on management to fire him if he can press that it is tied to his orientation. Now, he can be as gay as he wants. I can be as gay as I want. That doesn't mean that we need special recognition of the fact that we love cock, or any special treatment including holidays, national weeks/months/days, or anything that sets us apart as a class rather than as individuals.

On the other hand, I admit it bothers me that I can't snuggle up to the other half in public a lot of the time because he doesn't want me to get into a fight when someone starts trying to threaten us. I still annoy him by stealing kisses though^^

Yet somehow it's okay to piss within inches of one another, with penis exposed to the other's eye........I always found THAT weird!

Or showering together after the game ... a game filled with butt patting ....

Yet somehow it's okay to piss within inches of one another, with penis exposed to the other's eye........I always found THAT weird!Never been able to do that for the exact reason you just described...

The problem with that argument is that if we had national Caucasian History Month there would be a riot. While we can have the Hispanic, Native American, Latino, etc... college funds if we had a Caucasian only one it would also be considered racist. I'm not saying that you need to forget who you are. I'm saying there doesn't have to be something set aside just for you to bring it to the fore. False analogy.

Caucasians are not a ethnically homogenous group to begin with. And Germans, Irish, Italians, Swedes, etc all have celebrations of their heritage where the population warrants it. Some of these celebrations are around national holidays from their mother country (or their parents, or grandparents mother country), and others aren't. And there certainly are college funds for 'Caucasians'. Funds for people of Irish descent, Finnish descent, Scottish descent. College funds can be set up privately, with absolutely ANY criteria. You can say, "I'm going to set up a fund of $5000 a year that goes to a left-handed albino student who speaks Manadarin". It's perfectly legal. No one may be eligible, but hey.

And there will always be people who use the race/sex/religion/whatever card to weasle out of things. So what. They are flakes. And people know it.

Yet somehow it's okay to piss within inches of one another, with penis exposed to the other's eye........I always found THAT weird!
It's not that simple. There's very complicated urinal etiquette rules.

http://www.drinknation.com/urinaltest.php

EDIT: On the topic of Gay Pride, sure it makes sense. It's a party full of gays. Clearly appropriate. Our numbers are in the minority so clearly these events (also, Gay bars) are simply to gather as many of us together so we can find someone for ourselves.

It's not that simple. There's very complicated urinal etiquette rules.

http://www.drinknation.com/urinaltest.php

EDIT: On the topic of Gay Pride, sure it makes sense. It's a party full of gays. Clearly appropriate. Our numbers are in the minority so clearly these events (also, Gay bars) are simply to gather as many of us together so we can find someone for ourselves.


50 out of 60- and the one they claim I got wrong- My reasons for choosing are better than their reasons.

It's not that simple. There's very complicated urinal etiquette rules.

http://www.drinknation.com/urinaltest.php


Ahaha ... I got them all right. :D

False analogy.

Caucasians are not a ethnically homogenous group to begin with. And Germans, Irish, Italians, Swedes, etc all have celebrations of their heritage where the population warrants it. Some of these celebrations are around national holidays from their mother country (or their parents, or grandparents mother country), and others aren't. And there certainly are college funds for 'Caucasians'. Funds for people of Irish descent, Finnish descent, Scottish descent. College funds can be set up privately, with absolutely ANY criteria. You can say, "I'm going to set up a fund of $5000 a year that goes to a left-handed albino student who speaks Manadarin". It's perfectly legal. No one may be eligible, but hey.

And there will always be people who use the race/sex/religion/whatever card to weasle out of things. So what. They are flakes. And people know it.


So you're saying that this is a right reserved for those who are pure of blood? That sounds rather racist. Or are you saying we need a national holiday for every ethnicity. Since I can trace 2 Native American tribes, Irish, Dutch, English and French (among others), should I take all of these to be meant for me? Or are you saying that Hispanics are an ethnically homogenous group? Funny, I would think that Uruguay, Spain, and Mexico had drastically different historical viewpoints and histories. I'm failing to see your point here exactly. Caucasian is as proper as Hispanic, and as proper as African-American in its current usage. I also have absolutely nothing against any group celebrating its heritage. I'm against the government setting aside and essentially endorsing a celebration of a section of its populace's history while leaving out other large chunks of its population. While the Irish may celebrate their history, I don't remember having to go through 'Irish Authors' in my lit classes. I do remember having to go through African American authors specifically for reason of their race in one big chunk. I also don't remember seeing big publicly sponsored advertisements for 'Finnish History Month' with notes about 'Important Finnish Immigrants in US History' on the television.

As far as the college fund goes, re-read what I said. I said nothing about its legality. I said that people would protest it. The law and what gets enforced have little to do with eachother in all too many cases here nowadays.

So you're saying that this is a right reserved for those who are pure of blood?

Which right are you referring to? The right to create a private college fund for whomever you want? Irish descent (as an example) can mean whatever the person giving the money wants it to. A quarter, an eigth, straight off the boat...it's up to the person creating the bursury.

Or are you talking about holidays? Be more specific please.

That sounds rather racist. Private funds. Doesn't matter if it's racist or not, it's not covered by human rights 'equal opportunity to the funds' laws.

Or are you saying we need a national holiday for every ethnicity. Nope. But there are already holidays that are celebrated by certain ethnic groups...and some of those ethnic groups have white skin. So?

Since I can trace 2 Native American tribes, Irish, Dutch, English and French (among others), should I take all of these to be meant for me? I could care less. It's up to you, isn't it?

Or are you saying that Hispanics are an ethnically homogenous group? No, do you want me to? Nonetheless, el dia de la Raza is generally celebrated by all latinos on the same day. And guess what...they celebrate Christmas, Easter and la semana santa too....

Funny, I would think that Uruguay, Spain, and Mexico had drastically different historical viewpoints and histories. I'm failing to see your point here exactly. That's abundantly clear. And yours has completely escaped me. Did you actually read my post? Because you're making up arguments I never made myself...

Caucasian is as proper as Hispanic, and as proper as African-American in its current usage. I also have absolutely nothing against any group celebrating its heritage. I'm against the government setting aside and essentially endorsing a celebration of a section of its populace's history while leaving out other large chunks of its population.
Ah. So it's actually YOU who wants a national holiday for everyone (and here I thought you were attributing me with that argument). Or is it all or none?

While the Irish may celebrate their history, I don't remember having to go through 'Irish Authors' in my lit classes. I do remember having to go through African American authors specifically for reason of their race in one big chunk. I also don't remember seeing big publicly sponsored advertisements for 'Finnish History Month' with notes about 'Important Finnish Immigrants in US History' on the television.Were their population larger, and had they had an impact on the founding of your nation the way blacks have...I expect there would be a Finnish History Month.

As far as the college fund goes, re-read what I said. I said nothing about its legality. I said that people would protest it. The law and what gets enforced have little to do with eachother in all too many cases here nowadays.
They could be protested daily. It makes no difference. A private citizen may create a college fund based on whatever weird criteria they like. It may suck for you if you don't fit the criteria. But hey, that's life.

At Marti-gras you will see a couple, dressed in leather, doing a bump and grind, and exposing themselves to a crowd. Ma and Pa Iowa just shake their heads, and maybe laugh a little. When we get that sort of mundane reaction from Ma and Pa Iowa, then maybe we've achieved some level of equality.



Then, De-link Gay pride from Gay Politics.
Mardis Gras was orignally a Catholic celebration, but you don't get Catholic Activism demanding Political changes at the same event where Lucy and Lester are doing the public grope. Mardis-Gras is also neither gender, nor orientation specific. (I've been to New Orleans, seen plenty of gay couples acting wild like everyone else-and ma and pa iowa don't even bat an eye-at MARDIS GRAS.)

The problem is, the 1960s are over. so are the 1970's. Today, if you want traction with the electorate, pissing them off in droves is beyond stupid, and linking REAL issues to behaviour that says "I'm an irresponsible asshole" is a sure way to lose not only what you are trying to win, but everything your predecessors have managed to gain since the Stonewall riot.


[
Our celebration of "Pride" has to be "in-your-face" because if all we did was show off gay CEO's or gay professional and Olympic athletes, or nice, safe gay suburban couples we would be lying to the world, and ourselves. Also, Gay Pride is not a celebration of what we do in the bedroom. It is a fight against descrimination, just as Black Pride was a fight against descrimination. We are being killed, fired, beat up, denied housing and denied rights - this is not the time to be quiet. Let Ma and Pa Iowa see enough, and they will come to realise they are not the norm, just a part of what is normal.

So, you're saying that, basically, in your own view, You ARE irresponsible, and shouldn't be allowed to hold guardianship of children, or possess marital rights? There are irresponsible straight people too-but they don't get together and try to lobby for things they can't, based on behaviour and public image (promoted by themselves) reasonably be expected to handle, and when they do, they lose. The more "In Your Face" they are, the more they lose.

Your description of it being a fight against discrimination is like me beating up a guy's fist with my face. I've a hard head, and he may have some fragility in his knuckles, but it's a tactic for LOSING. You're doing exactly what your enemy wants you to do-is the gay movement secretly headed by Jimmy Swaggart or something? CEO's, Olympic Atheletes (and there are a bunch of 'em), Suburban couples, etc. are the kind of people you WANT non-gays to see-if you care one whit about things like getting recognition for marraige, being able to adopt or foster Children, and putting the bashers in their place.

See, outside of Capitol Hill (seattle), the Tenderloin (San Fransisco), West Hollywood (Los Angeles) or "The Village" in New York, "In Your Face" tactics are a good way to hand the people saying you're basically an irresponsible slut a tool that demonstrates just exactly that. It's like trying to gain serious political traction by appearing on Jerry Springer's "incestuous relations with my dog" episode-then running for congress.
It doesn't work.

Does gay pride, as in gay pride marches, make sense?

Let me present my argument - homosexuality, IMHO, isn't anything wrong or to be ashamed of. Homosexuals should not be discriminated against. Now that I've made that clear, let me move on...

True, it doesn't make sense to be proud or ashamed of something that happened to you by accident. It doesn't make sense to be proud of winning the lottery, being an American (or any other nationality), or being gay or straight. There is some element of pride or shame in religion, because you can always choose to leave a religion with which you disagree, but even at that there are plenty of people who see religion as something that they're born into, but don't pay much attention to.

OTOH, there is a tremendous effort made to make homsexuals feel ashamed of that fact, and "Gay Pride" rallies are important to counteract that, if only because "Gay Lack of Shame in a Condition Over Which One is Powerless to Exercise Any Choice or Action to Change," doesn't really fit legibly onto a button.

Today, if you want traction with the electorate, pissing them off in droves is beyond stupid, and linking REAL issues to behaviour that says "I'm an irresponsible asshole" is a sure way to lose not only what you are trying to win, but everything your predecessors have managed to gain since the Stonewall riot.

If you would even know what gay pride is you wouldn't be saying those things. These are events to improve support for gay people in this country. This isn't going to piss anyone off except idiotic religious fundamentalists and I personally have no problem with that.

Does gay pride, as in gay pride marches, make sense?

Let me present my argument - homosexuality, IMHO, isn't anything wrong or to be ashamed of. Homosexuals should not be discriminated against. Now that I've made that clear, let me move on...

To me, people should only take pride in something they've worked to achieve, such as athletic or intellectual accomplishments. So how can someone be proud of being gay? To me, this makes no more sense than being proud of being left handed, having blonde hair, being caucasian, or being heterosexual. It's just something you are...

Naturally, the main point of gay pride marches is to promote understanding and acceptance, as well as to combat prejudice, hate and misconceptions - but, that being the case, isn't "gay pride" a misleading term?

Please discuss, in a civilised manner if at all possible. ;)

P.S. First person to bring religion into the conversation gets a three point penalty. First person to ask "how can homosexulaity be genetic if gays can't reproduce" wins the ICUTFO award (I can't understand the f***ing obvious award)...:p

I didn't know you were the judge of what people could be proud of.

A gentleman who died in NW Indiana set up a college scholarship that was to go to a deserving white student from Gary Indiana that wanted to study law. I know of this because I administered it. We were sued and forced to open the fund to everyone from Gary, regardless of the gent's will and wishes. Totally bogus, but I hope that answers your question.


The problem with that argument is that if we had national Caucasian History Month there would be a riot. While we can have the Hispanic, Native American, Latino, etc... college funds if we had a Caucasian only one it would also be considered racist. I'm not saying that you need to forget who you are. I'm saying there doesn't have to be something set aside just for you to bring it to the fore.

If I ever strike it rich, which is doubtful as I lack the money lust or the urge to play the lotto, I'd really like to see the middl-class whiteboy college fund get set up and publicized to see how many people protested it or tried to declare it racist.

Right now at my job there are 2 of us who are gay (maybe 3 or 4, but only 2 of us including me that I know of). I don't act stereotypically 'flaming'. The other guy here does. You know what? I literally watch him become more of a stereotype if he thinks he might get in trouble with management. The reason, and he admits this, is that it will look bad on management to fire him if he can press that it is tied to his orientation. Now, he can be as gay as he wants. I can be as gay as I want. That doesn't mean that we need special recognition of the fact that we love cock, or any special treatment including holidays, national weeks/months/days, or anything that sets us apart as a class rather than as individuals.

On the other hand, I admit it bothers me that I can't snuggle up to the other half in public a lot of the time because he doesn't want me to get into a fight when someone starts trying to threaten us. I still annoy him by stealing kisses though^^

<quote>b
So, you're saying that, basically, in your own view, You ARE irresponsible, and shouldn't be allowed to hold guardianship of children, or possess marital rights? There are irresponsible straight people too-but they don't get together and try to lobby for things they can't, based on behaviour and public image (promoted by themselves) reasonably be expected to handle, and when they do, they lose. The more "In Your Face" they are, the more they lose.
</quote>

Dude, irresponsble straight people already have the right to hold guardianship of children, and possess marital rights. I want the same right some drooling idiot has, that's all, and if I piss off Jerry Farwell and his pals, then so be it, the more they rant, the more people sees how silly their argument is.

OK, I think some people are kind of missing my point. I'm not saying that gay pride marches are wrong, I'm saying that the term "gay pride" may be a little misleading.

For me personally, I only take pride in things I have strived to achieve, not things I was born with. I'm not "proud" of being white, male, or heterosexual. Its just what I am...


Just out of curiosity, if I were to say "I'm proud of being white", would most people assume I'm some kind of white supremacist, like a Klansmen or Neo-Nazi?

Hmmm. Funny. All those Spring Break parties and Mardi Gras riots, with chicks flashing their tits, drunken frat boys puking in the streets, then groping women...that doesn't seem to hurt the straight image all that much....

I think you are holding gay people to a standard you are not willing to set for straights. Shame on you.
Uh, just for the record, I'm straight and I don't really consider that type of behaviour to be particularly classy or intelligent...

I think my favorite example of this is when two guys go to a movie and make *absolutely* sure they sit with an empty seat between them ... otherwise their elbows might touch and everyone will think they're fags.

Well, I do that purely from a comfort point of view. The fact I weigh over 300 pounds means my fat ass needs as much room as it can get :p

I didn't know you were the judge of what people could be proud of.

Shit, you missed the memo? I also get a 10% tithe of everything you earn, and I own the naming right of your next child. You should really check your mail more often. :D It's called an opinion...you know, what 90% of what is posted on these forums is? :rolleyes:

Just out of curiosity, if I were to say "I'm proud of being white", would most people assume I'm some kind of white supremacist, like a Klansmen or Neo-Nazi?

No ... but I'd probably suggest a little time in the sunlight. :D


Well, I do that purely from a comfort point of view. The fact I weigh over 300 pounds means my fat ass needs as much room as it can get :p

Lol ... well ... ok ... so there're exceptions.

Fubaria, we have those parades because we are oppressed and attacked by heterosexual people who can't open their minds.

Fubaria, we have those parades because we are oppressed and attacked by heterosexual people who can't open their minds.
As I keep repeating, I am not talking about the parades, I am talking about the term "gay pride"...

As I keep repeating, I am not talking about the parades, I am talking about the term "gay pride"...

Gay pride is appropriate. I have a right to show pride in my sexual orientation because of the oppression.

Gay pride is appropriate. I have a right to show pride in my sexual orientation because of the oppression.

Exactly! When people first find out they are gay they tend to hide it and feel like they are different in the world. They don't think they belong and I've heard horrible stories of deaths just because of a person's sexuality. The point of Gay Pride is that you are not ashamed of who you are and that you take pride in yourself and not take any crap from anyone that administers it.

Exactly! When people first find out they are gay they tend to hide it and feel like they are different in the world. They don't think they belong and I've heard horrible stories of deaths just because of a person's sexuality. The point of Gay Pride is that you are not ashamed of who you are and that you take pride in yourself and not take any crap from anyone that administers it.

Bingo. I'll take a personal story of my own.. well it isn't horrific like being assaulted or even murdered.. but my boyfriend won't kiss me in public because he's afraid of people who are hateful. I would kiss him, but I know people will react in a very foul manner (especially in the San Fernando Valley.. West Hollywood is far better because it is the gay mecca of Los Angeles). I take pride in my sexual identity because I feel I must in the face of idiotic double standards, and bigotry.

While being gay in itself isnt something to be proud of any more than being straight is, many gay people have achieved an unsurpassed level of fabulousness, and they should be proud.

Q: How many S's are there in "fabulousness"?
A: Sssssixteen, the way SHE says it.

Telling someone your value is important when the people you are telling your value to have told you that your are worthless all your life, based solely on what gender you happen to be attracted to.

Why is important what other people think about you or say about you? Specifically why does it matter what someone thinks your value is?

Yes urinal etiquette is complicated, it's worse in stadiums because you know that the first guy goes to the end one right, well that's good for like 2-10 urinals when there are like 60-100 then the etiquette gets wierd because you cannot take the first one so how far do you go, you can't go all the way to the last, that'd make you an idiot, ANYWAYS
yeah I dislike gay pride parades, you know all I hear about is minority rights and yadda yadda well I'm a middle class white kid, how about rights for the majority. Since I'm middle class and white I'm eligible for no "limited access" scholarships, so I go on grades alone (how it should be) but all I hear is this for asians this for blacks this for gays this for jews, all outta my taxes, for once I want a truly equal government: I want one that says: Screw minority funding, you guys wanna be equal with the majority...okay...no funding for special groups across the board no exceptions, that way you're all equal. Genius and cheap as hell too, but alas I live in canada where they just legalised same sex marriage....the fools...I wish stephen harper were in power, he wouldn'ta let that happen.

To me, people should only take pride in something they've worked to achieve, such as athletic or intellectual accomplishments. So how can someone be proud of being gay? To me, this makes no more sense than being proud of being left handed, having blonde hair, being caucasian, or being heterosexual. It's just something you are...

I suppose one could be proud of being gay, by your definition, much in the same way that one could be proud of being an American.

yeah I dislike gay pride parades, you know all I hear about is minority rights and yadda yadda well I'm a middle class white kid, how about rights for the majority.

Look around. You'll see plenty of rights.

Since I'm middle class and white I'm eligible for no "limited access" scholarships, so I go on grades alone (how it should be) but all I hear is this for asians this for blacks this for gays this for jews, all outta my taxes, for once I want a truly equal government:

I'm middle class too.. and I got grants and scholarships (good grades). Those with less money should be able to get limited access scholarships.

Genius and cheap as hell too, but alas I live in canada where they just legalised same sex marriage....the fools...I wish stephen harper were in power, he wouldn'ta let that happen.

What is wrong with gay marriage?

Illogical, arrogant and pushy.

In my opinion people shouldnt take Pride in anything.

Pride -
1. A sense of one's own proper dignity or value; self-respect.
2. Pleasure or satisfaction taken in an achievement, possession, or association: parental pride.
3.Arrogant or disdainful conduct or treatment; haughtiness.

[snip: irrelevant]



Most people don't get the meaning. Self respect, not arrogance. The come theme between any of the minority marches was self-respect. One must remember that people were[ and still are] deprived of their own self-respect and self-worth. Add to it that the gay pride movement have beginnings in the 1960s, you get the outrageousness.

[edit]
Most importantly:

Visability. Gays weren't visable therefore victim of the distance and unknown factor.

In pyschology experiments done on authority, social pressure and torture showed that the closer the victim to the adminster of the torture [ electris shocks... up to 300 or 400 V (only believed true by the adminster)], the less likely they were to progress to the maximum voltage.

No one can say they don't exist anymore.

Look around. You'll see plenty of rights.



I'm middle class too.. and I got grants and scholarships (good grades). Those with less money should be able to get limited access scholarships.



What is wrong with gay marriage?

Illogical, arrogant and pushy.
Those with less money should, yes. The colour of thier skin or the religionof thier parents should not matter.

Pride in general doesn't make much sense. Contentment, a feeling of accomplishment..that I can understand. Pride is an odd thing.

Hmmm. Funny. All those Spring Break parties and Mardi Gras riots, with chicks flashing their tits, drunken frat boys puking in the streets, then groping women...that doesn't seem to hurt the straight image all that much....

I think you are holding gay people to a standard you are not willing to set for straights. Shame on you.

Fundamentalists that hate gays for being gay will find ways of justifying their hatred, with or without parades. Telling gays to 'button up and be discreet' is nothing more than returning them to the closet where they've been forced to reside for centuries. Just what the fundies would like most.

POINT OF ORDER!!!

Isn't "Fundie-bashing" bringing in religion?

end point.

As to the question at hand, I guess it's a matter of personal preference, isn't it? You can take pride in anything, and express your pride in that thing up and to the point where it becomes evident to all. What everyone else does with that display of pride is up to them, isn't it? I can look on all the festivities surrounding a high school homecoming game and say, "Golly, look at how proud those kids are of their school." It's their right to display pride in that way. I don't see any difference between that and "gay pride" celebrations. The fact that I am offended by both the displays of lewdness at gay pride events AND hetero (and otherwise) behavior at Mardi Gras does not change the right of those involved to display pride in their respective cultures.

I suppose one could be proud of being gay, by your definition, much in the same way that one could be proud of being an American.
I think national pride is a source of many, many problems in and of itself. Where you are born is an accident of geography, nothing more...

As to the question at hand, I guess it's a matter of personal preference, isn't it? You can take pride in anything, and express your pride in that thing up and to the point where it becomes evident to all. What everyone else does with that display of pride is up to them, isn't it? I can look on all the festivities surrounding a high school homecoming game and say, "Golly, look at how proud those kids are of their school." It's their right to display pride in that way. I don't see any difference between that and "gay pride" celebrations. The fact that I am offended by both the displays of lewdness at gay pride events AND hetero (and otherwise) behavior at Mardi Gras does not change the right of those involved to display pride in their respective cultures.

Look at it this way.. we have these parades, to open minds. I don't care if you are offended. Personally I could care less. We gay people have a right to hold these parades and toher festivities because we have been so badly neglected and abused by the majority.

Sexuality is something that is part of me, and I have a right to do it. This has nothing to do with games, or what-not.

Look at it this way.. we have these parades, to open minds. I don't care if you are offended. Personally I could care less. We gay people have a right to hold these parades and toher festivities because we have been so badly neglected and abused by the majority.

Sexuality is something that is part of me, and I have a right to do it. This has nothing to do with games, or what-not.


Did you read my post or just automatically decide I was a basher?

I said you have a right. I said I was offended by the lewd behavioral displays. Krap man, all I want is for you to keep your genitals covered! Kissing is not lewd. Women displaying their breasts for beads is. Men parading naked or so poorly covered they might as well be IS. Gay or straight, keep it covered.

And get over it. Not everyone is out to get you. I've met my share of ignorant, closed minded gays. I'm not uninformed, and I'm not a bigot. I just wish you wouldn't ram your gayness down my throat. I promise not to ram my formerly BI heteroness down yours. Okee dokee?

Does gay pride, as in gay pride marches, make sense?

To me, people should only take pride in something they've worked to achieve, such as athletic or intellectual accomplishments. So how can someone be proud of being gay? To me, this makes no more sense than being proud of being left handed, having blonde hair, being caucasian, or being heterosexual. It's just something you are...

Naturally, the main point of gay pride marches is to promote understanding and acceptance, as well as to combat prejudice, hate and misconceptions - but, that being the case, isn't "gay pride" a misleading term?

and when I visited Budapest, they clearly called it "PARADA", but the word "gay" wasn't mentioned, maybe I mixed things up but the hungarian language was too difficult for me.
So when I saw this parade of people, some of them really "showing off" explicit sexual material, my first impression was: "Can that be legal, when printed porn has to hide, and when sex-shops are closed down by police actions all over the worl?"

If "redheads" would put up a city-march, marching half-nude through the center of town, they would be stopped by the police. If so-called "gay" people do that, they pretend to "show their pride". If nude breasts (real ones or silicon enhanced ones, I don't care) are their "pride", or net-stockings and mini-mini-mini skirts (nothing more than a belt) and they can "parade" likethis when kids are still in the streets, do they "help" the acceptance of gay people?
This type of "gay pride" seems to be counter-productive. It focuses the "prejudiced public" on the perception that "being gay is the same as being obsessed with sexual conduct".

The only "achievement" they seem to be proud of, is that they "dare" (but only under the cover of a large group) to "show themselves" (as in "exhibitionism") and "get away with it". The rest is well hidden behind that message.
they could be proud for "standing up for themselves", but that's not shown in these parades. The can hardly be "proud" to "be what they are" ... (the ku-klucks are proud to be white, no?) And what they ARE, is very well disguised unless they want to show they "are obsessed".

Maybe I missed an evolution by NOT watching those parades any more, the few glimpses I had of them were enough to diregard them.
They aren't very representative for those gay people I happen to know in person either.

A gentleman who died in NW Indiana set up a college scholarship that was to go to a deserving white student from Gary Indiana that wanted to study law. I know of this because I administered it. We were sued and forced to open the fund to everyone from Gary, regardless of the gent's will and wishes. Totally bogus, but I hope that answers your question.

QFE.

Thank you Harumf.
Actually, I know this had happened to several such things in court. It doesn't actually make it any more legal, but see my earlier reply to Sinhue re: Enforcement != legality in the U.S. nowadays. We borked that when we decided that our judges were meant to interpret the laws rather than enforce them. Noone gives impartial interpretations, that's the basis of 'New Journalism'. If a law isn't clear enough that it can be canonically defined, then it needs to be re-written.

We gay people have a right to hold these parades and toher festivities because we have been so badly neglected and abused by the majority.

I'd just like to note that this is why I keep bringing race discriminationinto this. Change a couple words and you just found the basis for affirmative action.

We xxx people have a right to be compensated because we have been so badly neglected and abused by the majority.

No.
If you want to be equal, then you have to act equal. If your proud of being gay, then you can be open with being gay in situations. If your in a bar and you see some guy/girl (depenant) you think is hot, and you feel like sharing it with your friends, go for it.

Straight people do that all the time.

Something straight people don't do is go out in the street and yell:
"Were straight and proud!" and march down the road because that essentially means your "Straight and arrogant enough to think everyone cares and should stop disturbing the peace" I don't care what your sexual orientation.

Gay pride parades breed contempt among many people who don't have a particular problem with homosexuals and make people who don't like homosexuals even angrier in the same way a prude gets more offended if you go out butt naked and start humping someone than if you just go out and say "Wow' shes hot as hell!"

Gay pride parades hurt the gay community. It gives them a stereotype for being flamboyant, self absorbed enough to think others care, and for some people (including me) the impression that they want to give anyone they can a reason (invalid but still a reason) to cause trouble. If I went through a white supremacist camp yelling: "Hey lookat me! I'm Korean!! Lookie lookie!" I'd be putting myself at unecessary risk for the point bragging about how korean I am.

I seriously do not understand this whole idea of entitlement because your gay, straight, asian, black, white, or latino. If you can get the permits ect ect ect to do a parade then you can get them. If the people don't like it, they vote out the officials who gave out the permits and puts someone else in. I personally find them annoying and they give me a very negative very close view of the gay community and its sad because the homosexual people who actually keep their sexuality between themselves and those close to them suffer for it.

Imo, parades are meant to celebrate occasions of importance, not to go out and show everyone your sexual orientation. If you want to march to washington and demand gay rights just like Martin Luther King marched to Washington and demanded civil rights, fine, but just remember the constituency are the people that many of you are offending with gay pride parades.

Just remember this, theres a very *fat* line between pride and intrusion.
Being open as anyone else with your sexuality is pride. It means your not ashamed.

Marching in a parade declaring that your gay is intrusive and is basically you shoving your sexuality into everyones faces where they care about it or not. To most people its akin to people running out and saying "Look at me! I'm -blank-!!" which is immensely annoying and will in no way get me to vote for the legalization of gay marriage. (Anymore than what my normal inclination is)

Quippoth: who are you responding to?

No. Doesn't seem an appropriate response to either myself or the person above me.

Quippoth: who are you responding to?

No. Doesn't seem an appropriate response to either myself or the person above me.

Original poster.

It's no so much about gay pride as not being ashamed of being gay, in the past being gay was something you would never mention because typically you'd be discriminated against, etc.
In our new age of love and understanding, we want people to understand that being gay is perfectly normal, and so gay pride says, hey everyone I am gay and I'm not ashamed. And to prove it here I am in a parade full of gay people, who are not afraid to say, I'm gay.

Now why should they need a parade? Well, see shocking as it is, there are no real visual signs to tell one from the other. A gay person could walk down the street, unashamed of being gay, but no one would notice because they look just like "normal" people, because they are normal people, because being gay is perfectly normal.

And so that is why Gay Pride exists, not because they are particularly proud, in the say way, i'm not particularly proud of my ability to continue breathing, but I'm not ashamed of my ability to keep on breathing, and if I was trying to overturn the backwards social ideas of years of repression against people who breathe, I'd be having a respiration pride march too.

It's no so much about gay pride as not being ashamed of being gay, in the past being gay was something you would never mention because typically you'd be discriminated against, etc.
In our new age of love and understanding, we want people to understand that being gay is perfectly normal, and so gay pride says, hey everyone I am gay and I'm not ashamed. And to prove it here I am in a parade full of gay people, who are not afraid to say, I'm gay.

Now why should they need a parade? Well, see shocking as it is, there are no real visual signs to tell one from the other. A gay person could walk down the street, unashamed of being gay, but no one would notice because they look just like "normal" people, because they are normal people, because being gay is perfectly normal.

And so that is why Gay Pride exists, not because they are particularly proud, in the say way, i'm not particularly proud of my ability to continue breathing, but I'm not ashamed of my ability to keep on breathing, and if I was trying to overturn the backwards social ideas of years of repression against people who breathe, I'd be having a respiration pride march too.
If your proud and not ashamed to be gay, fine, but I don't care whether your gay. I never did, never will. If I was in a bar with you and you looked at a person of the same sex and said "Wow he/she is hot!" I wouldn't care that it was the same sex. If you went out in the street and yelled "Hey everyone I'm gay!" I would think you were an egomaniac who thought everyone actually cared. Homosexuality is well known in the culture, you don't need to march in parades to inform people that there are indeed people who are homosexual.

Gay pride parades do not overturn years of social oppression and stereotypes. They reinforce them and make people wonder if they made a mistake overturning those backward ideas in the first place. The people of the US at least, in general, appreciate modesty, a modest person will recieve more lauds than one who seeks recognition. Homosexuals would be accepted far sooner if they assimilated into the society rather than attempting to seperate themselves as gay rather than just being human.

The response to the argument "There's no special Straight Pride, where should there be Gay Pride?" is nicely summed up with this well-known piece of sagely wisdom:

As the child asked his mother on Mother's Day:

"Mum, why is there a Mother's Day, but no Kid's Day?"

And as the Mother replied:

"Mother's need a day, honey. Every day is Kid's Day."

Im straight but im not so proud I have to go and march around. So what if you're gay? Why do I need to know that?

The response to the argument "There's no special Straight Pride, where should there be Gay Pride?" is nicely summed up with this well-known piece of sagely wisdom:

As the child asked his mother on Mother's Day:

"Mum, why is there a Mother's Day, but no Kid's Day?"

And as the Mother replied:

"Mother's need a day, honey. Every day is Kid's Day."
There actually is a "kids day" in the form of boys and girls day.

Homosexual people have every opportunity to make every day gay pride day without marching in a parade.

If your proud and not ashamed to be gay, fine, but I don't care whether your gay. I never did, never will. If I was in a bar with you and you looked at a person of the same sex and said "Wow he/she is hot!" I wouldn't care that it was the same sex. If you went out in the street and yelled "Hey everyone I'm gay!" I would think you were an egomaniac who thought everyone actually cared. Homosexuality is well known in the culture, you don't need to march in parades to inform people that there are indeed people who are homosexual.

Well maybe you live in a community which accepts these things, it's quite possible. But just because the way you experience life is fine, it doesn't mean the rest of the world works the same.


Gay pride parades do not overturn years of social oppression and stereotypes. They reinforce them and make people wonder if they made a mistake overturning those backward ideas in the first place. The people of the US at least, in general, appreciate modesty, a modest person will recieve more lauds than one who seeks recognition. Homosexuals would be accepted far sooner if they assimilated into the society rather than attempting to seperate themselves as gay rather than just being human.

Is that really true, or is that just what you think?
Are you saying that you feel gay pride parades make you think it's a mistake giving gay people equal status as everyone else?

If you honestly don't care either way about gay people, why would you care if they take to the streets and parade around?
Perhaps it's annoying that all the streets are closed, the buses aren't running, but the problem is not about them being gay, it's about them being a pain in the ass, which is nothing special, any number of idiots can start a parade about anything, it doesn't make them less worthy to be accepted as people, it just makes them a pain in the ass.

I think really you do have a problem with gay people, because you have singled them out as a problem, because of their gay pride marches.
If you just had a problem with people generally having marches then you would be saying, "Whats with all these people and their marches, we all know free speech is dead, there is no reason to clog up the damn streets."

Which kind of proves the point that you may think there is sexuality equality, but your very view of gay pride says otherwise, and the fact you are not alone in your feelings means there is still plenty of way to go.

I think the problem comes down to sex.

Many people find the ideas of homosexual sex as distasteful, and when they see a gay pride march they don't see it as a bunch of gay people walking about, they see it as a bunch of butt fuckers walking about, an idea they find distasteful is being forced into their face, and they don't like it, it makes them feel uncomfortable. Most societys see sex as a pretty taboo subject anyway, homosexual sex, is utterly horrifying, and so everytime they parade, people think, "butt sex, AHHHHH", how dare those gays parade their butt sex in my face, they should be banned from parading their butt sex around, they should be made into less than human things because everytime they say they are gay, I think of butt sex, and damnit, I don't like it.

But you are probably right, Gay Pride won't help because it won't stop people thinking of homosexuals as a bunch of butt fuckers, when they are just people who share an emotional and sometimes physically close relationship, and one no different from any number of straight relationships, except they are of the same gender.

The problem is that every other facet of gay life is swept under the carpet, and all people think when they hear the word gay, is a stereotypical camp, butt fucker.

There actually is a "kids day" in the form of boys and girls day.

Homosexual people have every opportunity to make every day gay pride day without marching in a parade.

Seriously? There's a "Boys and Girls Day"? In what country?

And I honestly think you are simply misunderstanding the idea of gay pride. The parades are NOT the be all and end all of "Gay Pride". It is ONE thing among many. All the parades are really about is getting dressed up and having fun. Are you also opposed to any other parade that features people in skimpy clothes?

I know this reply wasn't to me, but I had commentary on a couple things in it.

Well maybe you live in a community which accepts these things, it's quite possible. But just because the way you experience life is fine, it doesn't mean the rest of the world works the same.
Oddly, I have a friend who's from Boston. I doubt the entire city is this way, but she was genuinely amazed that anyone but complete idiots really cared that I was gay. Kind of nice to know that at least some people were really raised in an environment that didn't teach that sort of behavior.



Is that really true, or is that just what you think?
Are you saying that you feel gay pride parades make you think it's a mistake giving gay people equal status as everyone else?

If you honestly don't care either way about gay people, why would you care if they take to the streets and parade around?

I think the point the person you're trying to reply to was was attempting to make was that when someone singles themselves out for a parade or activist movement it immediately highlights the differences between them and the average person. It does not make it seem as if they are the same. It highlights how different they can be, and usually it seems that these differences are presented either in an intentionally shocking manner to unnerve others. This does not help them to be accepted as having unimportant differences in the grand scheme of things. It sets them apart as having noticable major differences as highlighted by the minority of the group partaking in the shocking behavior. Consider it the difference between a kid that listens to Marilyn Manson and the talk shows after Columbine that started uproars where many parents decided that any child listening to such music was a school shooting waiting to happen.

it's exactly the same as the "black is beautiful" movement in the 60's to combat the demonization of a people by providing an alternate voice.

Well maybe you live in a community which accepts these things, it's quite possible. But just because the way you experience life is fine, it doesn't mean the rest of the world works the same.



Is that really true, or is that just what you think?
Are you saying that you feel gay pride parades make you think it's a mistake giving gay people equal status as everyone else?

If you honestly don't care either way about gay people, why would you care if they take to the streets and parade around?
Perhaps it's annoying that all the streets are closed, the buses aren't running, but the problem is not about them being gay, it's about them being a pain in the ass, which is nothing special, any number of idiots can start a parade about anything, it doesn't make them less worthy to be accepted as people, it just makes them a pain in the ass.


The problem is they are being a pain in the ass and blocking the streets because they feel its important to tell everyone that they are indeed gay, which I really didn't care about in the first place. Seriously, if its alright to have gay pride parades whats to say its wrong to let the "Seniors S&M brigade" go on a parade for sadism and masochism pride? Or maybe we should have NMBLA have its own parade. (National Boy Love Association, a group interested in legalizing sexual relations between adult men and boys.) Parades have a certain status in the US of being something you can take your kids to. Most people don't have a problem taking their 6 year old son to a Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade, how do you think the first parents felt when they found out the first "gay pride" parade involved men walking through the streets in fishnet stockings near naked.


I think really you do have a problem with gay people, because you have singled them out as a problem, because of their gay pride marches.

This is patently wrong. I personally have no problem with guns being legal in the US, but I sure have a problem with getting shot with one. Theres a huge difference in being proud about being gay and parading through the streets exclaiming it to everyone. The latter is a flamboyant display of self-importance which offends me as much as a Nazi pride parade would.


If you just had a problem with people generally having marches then you would be saying, "Whats with all these people and their marches, we all know free speech is dead, there is no reason to clog up the damn streets."

Which kind of proves the point that you may think there is sexuality equality, but your very view of gay pride says otherwise, and the fact you are not alone in your feelings means there is still plenty of way to go.


Hardly, I would never ever volunteer nor condone a "straight pride" parade either. I don't think parades are meant to showcase sexuality. You just don't seem to be making the connection. Sexual equality involves not being ashamed of being straight or gay and then shutting up about it. Its not about running around in the streets informing everyone what your sexual preference is. You keep missing the fact that I would be equally offended had I seen a straight pride parade go by my house as well.


I think the problem comes down to sex.

Many people find the ideas of homosexual sex as distasteful, and when they see a gay pride march they don't see it as a bunch of gay people walking about, they see it as a bunch of butt fuckers walking about, an idea they find distasteful is being forced into their face, and they don't like it, it makes them feel uncomfortable. Most societys see sex as a pretty taboo subject anyway, homosexual sex, is utterly horrifying, and so everytime they parade, people think, "butt sex, AHHHHH", how dare those gays parade their butt sex in my face, they should be banned from parading their butt sex around, they should be made into less than human things because everytime they say they are gay, I think of butt sex, and damnit, I don't like it.

I don't see people in a sexualized as you state. When I see a woman going down the street I don't go thinking: "Hey look! A walking vagina!" People are far more than their genitals.


But you are probably right, Gay Pride won't help because it won't stop people thinking of homosexuals as a bunch of butt fuckers, when they are just people who share an emotional and sometimes physically close relationship, and one no different from any number of straight relationships, except they are of the same gender.

The problem is that every other facet of gay life is swept under the carpet, and all people think when they hear the word gay, is a stereotypical camp, butt fucker.
You once again miss the point I am attempting to make. Every facet of your sexuality, straight or gay, should not be paraded in the open. Its not being swept under the carpet, its being kept private as its something no one else needs to know. The point is this, I see a person walking down the street and I identify him as a man by simply looking at him, then thats what he is, a man. Care whether he's gay, bi, into S&M, or was castrated. It doesn't matter as long as he sticks with the social standard of keeping sexuality, whatever it is, to themselves and those they are in a relationship with.

If homosexual people want to be respected, appreciated, treated equally, and most of all, not stereotyped, they need to work hard as they can to stop getting people to act like the stereotype, they need to not go out of their way to distance themselves from the majority of society that is not homosexual. I can assure you one thing, a whole lot less homosexual people where I live, would not be considered, perverts, sinners, and freaks had they not spent that one day walking down our street in their fishnet stockings and pantyhose.

Seriously? There's a "Boys and Girls Day"? In what country?

Japan, Korea, China. Its made its way to the states via immigrants and where I live, in Hawaii, its quite prevalent due to our large asian population.


And I honestly think you are simply misunderstanding the idea of gay pride. The parades are NOT the be all and end all of "Gay Pride". It is ONE thing among many. All the parades are really about is getting dressed up and having fun. Are you also opposed to any other parade that features people in skimpy clothes?
The original poster was specifically referring to gay pride parades. Like I said before many times I believe gay pride is not being ashamed of being gay. Not being ashamed does not mean that everyone needs to know. I'm not ashamed of my grades back in highschool but I wouldn't go parading throught he streets yelling "Look how well I did in Highschool!".

While parades might be about getting dressed up and having fun, there are limits to whats acceptable in our society. First off parades are, or at least were, areas of relative neutrality, thanksgiving, christmas (secularized both). Second, they were all family friendly in the current idealogy of what family friendly is.
Finally, yes i'm against parades with extraordinarily skimpy clothes.. Fishnet stockings and pantyhose for example, for parades, they are family events and made to be family friendly. Its in the public arena.

What you are saying is that it's fine to be gay as long as no one talks about it, which is exactly how it's been for years, as long as no one mentions it it's fine, lets ignore these things because we find them distasteful, or embarressing.

You are saying the approach is to sweep everything under the carpet. The best approach is no approach at all. And if someone does mention it, what should we do? Should we shoot them? Hang them? Imprison them? Socially ridicule them until they commit suicide? Ahh yes this is the life.

That is a great idea. Lets apply it.

I find the idea of being run over by a car rather traumatic, and distateful, so when I am crossing the road I just close my eyes and walk across it, and I find it very annoying that there are people who use their eyes and look both ways, and some that even use crossings, I think crossing the road is fine, but you haven't got to go round being all flashy about it.

Sounds ridiculous eh?

So your problem isn't really with gay people, but you still use them as an example of what you feel is the depravity of society. You are still singling them out, as being wrong, and because you don't think it's right, that they go out in shocking clothes, grown men in fish nets, oh my!

Perhaps Gay Pride marches does not help gay people be accepted into society but if they do help a society be more open about everything it does, and not be ashamed, then I say more power to them. I don't think the solution is to ignore things and not talk about things, when you ignore these things terrible injustices happen, things that could be avoided if people just knew.

Consider drugs. We know the story, all drugs are bad and they will kill you right?
What a fine line to take, but see little Johnny, doesn't care, he knows these are just lies, and so little Johnny buys an ounce of crack, snorts it all at once and OD's and dies. What an excellent outcome. One person has died, because the truth was omitted.

Little Rachel is 12 and is afraid of going to school, every time they have P.E. she gets a funny feeling inside her, seeing the other girls get changed. She knows it's wrong and she knows she can't talk about it, eventually she ends up hanging herself out of shame.

Another young life chalked up to that great way of thinking.

Do you want your children to lie to you, to not respect you as a person, to live a life afraid of what they might know or think? Because when you hide from them what is really true, when you lie to them, because you want to protect them, all you are doing is salving your concience. And at the same time you send a message to your children, that you don't trust them, you don't believe them to be any more intelligent than an animal, you aren't creating a new person you are just trying to create another copy of yourself.

And I don't think any of that is good. If there exists anything we are ashamed to parade in public then I think there is something wrong, Gay Pride is about not being afraid to be public not just about being gay but about everything, it's about saying, there is nothing I am ashamed of.

If there is something to be ashamed of, if there is something which anyone thinks shouldn't be paraded about, but should exist, I would question their motives.

It's acceptable to be proud of what and who you are, but if you're going on a parade will you at least put some clothes on? Gay pride is about gay pride, not about nude pride.

Not entirely scientific, but you nailed it. Imagine if a guy did that. Now imagine he got caught. He'd probably be beat to near death.
Yeah, some guy was beaten up hear last year just for being metro.. most gay guys here aren't very open about it. :(

So you're essentially a bathroom troll?
...sure? :confused:

I find it very odd that you felt the need to qualify as such ...
I'm no sure what you are saying, but by saying that I was just letting the reader become aware of the variables I changed... cause (though as Balipo said it isn't 'scientific') I was still trying to keep it kinda note-worthy *shrugs*

reminds me of an old poem...

People who write on bathroom walls
Roll their shit into little balls
Folks who read those lines of wit
Eat those little balls of shit.
Myeah, lots of stupid stuff in bathrooms O.o

That is so brilliant...
Thx, just trying to kill apathy/raise awareness in the most effortless ways possible XD

I disagree with the idea that gay pride events will decrease as LBGT people become more accepted into society.

When people are accepted it doesn't necessarily mean that everyone else suddenly knows exactly what it is like to be LGBT/ Afro-carribean/ Irish etc.. People can always learn more about each other so a major reason for 'Pride' style events still holds strong even when the people are accepted. Also, if people are accepted for who they are then they may well want to celebrate their diversity and invite everyone else to join in the fun.

Bah, I can't articulate my point properly but I hope somone can pick it up and reiiterate it in a way that makes sense.

Does gay pride, as in gay pride marches, make sense?

Let me present my argument - homosexuality, IMHO, isn't anything wrong or to be ashamed of. Homosexuals should not be discriminated against. Now that I've made that clear, let me move on...

To me, people should only take pride in something they've worked to achieve, such as athletic or intellectual accomplishments. So how can someone be proud of being gay? To me, this makes no more sense than being proud of being left handed, having blonde hair, being caucasian, or being heterosexual. It's just something you are...

Naturally, the main point of gay pride marches is to promote understanding and acceptance, as well as to combat prejudice, hate and misconceptions - but, that being the case, isn't "gay pride" a misleading term?

Please discuss, in a civilised manner if at all possible. ;)

P.S. First person to bring religion into the conversation gets a three point penalty. First person to ask "how can homosexulaity be genetic if gays can't reproduce" wins the ICUTFO award (I can't understand the f***ing obvious award)...:p


Because the original idea was to speak out against the attempt to make homosexuality something to be embarrassed about

They picked the opposite … pride opposite of shame

I understand where you are coming from but really what they are using pride as a synonym for “anti-ashamed”

Yeah, some guy was beaten up hear last year just for being metro..
Yeah, but those dirty metro's deserve it! Being gay is fine, but metrosexuals are an abomination! :p [j/k]

I'd just like to note that this is why I keep bringing race discriminationinto this. Change a couple words and you just found the basis for affirmative action.

Um, this isn't affirmative action. This is about opening the minds of others.