NationStates Jolt Archive

A very, very interesting point is one brought up in the book "Freakonomics" and priorly in a paper by its principal author, Steven Levitt.

His point is that the overwhelming factors in the staggering decline in crime which took place in the 1990s were Roe v. Wade and abortion.

Apparently, the people most statistically likely to bear childen who grow up to be criminal young men are also the people most statistically likely to get an abortion.

This has everything to do with socio-economics and not with "bad genes" or anything of that nature.

Conversely, note the situation in Romania after its dictator thought it wise to outlaw abortion completely.

This is no sound basis on which to form abortion policy, but it is an interesting piece of trivia.

I never noticed that...Hmmm

I preferred the bit about why Drug Dealers lived with their mothers and how that gang organized themselves like a corporation...

But hey, Eugenics is a wonderful thing is it not? ;)

The first few times I read that statement I thought it was saying that criminal young men are most likely to have abortions. Apparently it is time for bed.

I loved the book. It's a number of perfect examples of The Law of Unintended Consequences.

Again, while the number of abortions probably had an effect on the crime rate, that's not a good reason to encourage abortion. By the same token, one could argue that the abortions are the cause of Social Security having problems, because if there were more workers, more people would be paying into the system, hence no shortage.

I loved the book. It's a number of perfect examples of The Law of Unintended Consequences.

Again, while the number of abortions probably had an effect on the crime rate, that's not a good reason to encourage abortion. By the same token, one could argue that the abortions are the cause of Social Security having problems, because if there were more workers, more people would be paying into the system, hence no shortage.
It could cause more people to be dependent on the nation if jobs are not available, though.

It could cause more people to be dependent on the nation if jobs are not available, though.

Possibly, but you might have them taking the jobs that the illegal immigrants are taking today. Then we'd have less illegal immigration because they couldn't find jobs, etc.

Ah, I love extrapolating hypotheticals. As I said, the old Law of Unintended Consequences is back at it. It'll bite you in the butt every time.

The reason abortion lowers crime is that fewer unwanted children are around. Unwanted children are given fewer resources and less dedicated parenting then children who are actually wanted. Thus many unwanted children grow up to become criminals or burdens.

Also, abortion makes it so there are less teenage parents. The older the mother, the better the mothers children will do, its a scientific fact (it is advised to wait till your in your 30's to have children).

It might be noted that his research indicated that abortion was responsible for about half of the crime drop. The other half was due to beefed-up police forces.

Ahh, the wonders of statisitics
You can prove anything with statisitics, even the truth :)
Seriously though, I saw the author on the O'Reilly Factor and he made convincing arguements to support his observations.
It's logical and interesting, but can not really be used in the abortion debate

Possibly, but you might have them taking the jobs that the illegal immigrants are taking today. Then we'd have less illegal immigration because they couldn't find jobs, etc.

Ah, I love extrapolating hypotheticals. As I said, the old Law of Unintended Consequences is back at it. It'll bite you in the butt every time.
This could go on forever... and don't think I won't try to drag it out. I'm ridiculous. But... At least in my area there are tons of jobs being taken by illegal immigrants that do the jobs that many people simply will not do. There was an article in my local paper about a landscaper who was saying that he literally tried every way to not take immigrants. He posted in the local want ads, on the bulletin boards at high schools and at colleges but it simply came down to people that didn't want nine dollars an hour for a job that was largely grunt work. So, he turned to the illegal immigrants. When asked, he said he didn't pay them any more or less than he would anybody else that would take the job.

Ahh, the wonders of statisitics
You can prove anything with statisitics, even the truth :)
Seriously though, I saw the author on the O'Reilly Factor and he made convincing arguements to support his observations.
It's logical and interesting, but can not really be used in the abortion debate
That's true but I really wish it could...

This is a topic that will be debated for years to come. Here in the united states the definition of a fetus is that it is still a "parasite" - "An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host."

The knowledge evades me as to when it is no longer a "parasite." Be it when the umbilical is cut or as soon as the "parasite" is no longer in/on the host.

Scowl or look down on me if you like. I am pro-choice. I understand that in some cases it is out of a womens control(you'r respective god forbid). I am a 23 year old male and I am neather mentally or finantually prepared for children. Two things that everyone should consider before giving conception a thought.

- thanks, my first post