NationStates Jolt Archive

Interesting views I found in one Finnish newsboard, unfortunately it's from a quote with no author reference, so I'll improvize instead of translate. Notice that this is *not my* argument, I just want to seen your views. My comments are marked with *stars*.

The major societal problems in Africa come from
1. The concept of time is understood backwards. The past is here, can be seen and is tangible, the future is unchangeable and unknown. *That is to say, there is present, and then there is "other", of which the past is more important, because it sets limits for what you can't do; the future does not, and is thus unimportant.* The entire point of economic development is to be ready for the future. As you can't give the cultural concept of the future as aid, all money spent on anything that requires foresight - trucks, factories, funds - is wasted, because it requires orienting yourself to the future. Aid should be things that don't break, such as mechanical pumps.

2. Sexism and alcoholism. This is mentioned rarely in anything but hushing tones. African men just go drinking and let the women do all the work. *Since they keep the women uneducated, and cannot put education into use themselves - see #1 - no development can be achieved.* Even though sexism is found in some developed countries, in there it's at least a duty of honor to feed your family. *I don't doubt that such a cultural conception is found in the natural cultures which are under threat in urbanization.*

3. Corruption and nepotism. Giving money to Africa as "aid" is absolutely pointless, because the elite will get in anyway - they hold the power to exercise violence on the territory. There would be a point in aid, if the state apparatus were bypassed completely.

4. Disrespect of human life. The majority of wars in the last century has been fought in Africa. Self-help is a-OK, you can lynch a pocket thief and the police applauds. If this value is not rooted in the society, how could the societies help themselves?

(porvari.com)

The one concrete thing Africa needs is less foreign meddling in their internal affairs. If cutting aid accomplishes that, then I'd support it.

The Niger famine however is very deceptive. You want to say "oh those silly Africans, starving to death yet again, tsk tsk" but really the problem is much larger and much scarier. The glacial flows in Siberia and Alaska are melting and flooding villages, hurricanes and typhoons across the world are increasing in frequency and strength, El Nino events are going haywire, and desert nations like Niger are experiencing unprecedented droughts. Global climate change is happening now. Time to start listening to all those nerdy scientists who've been warning about global warming for the past two decades.

The one concrete thing Africa needs is less foreign meddling in their internal affairs. If cutting aid accomplishes that, then I'd support it.

The Niger famine however is very deceptive. You want to say "oh those silly Africans, starving to death yet again, tsk tsk" but really the problem is much larger and much scarier. The glacial flows in Siberia and Alaska are melting and flooding villages, hurricanes and typhoons across the world are increasing in frequency and strength, El Nino events are going haywire, and desert nations like Niger are experiencing unprecedented droughts. Global climate change is happening now. Time to start listening to all those nerdy scientists who've been warning about global warming for the past two decades.

I agree with Khudros. Global Warming is going to screw us over. But what's that got to do with this?

I agree with Khudros. Global Warming is going to screw us over. But what's that got to do with this?

Africa's products are mostly food (mostly for its own people). Food requires agriculture. Agriculture requires a stable, normal climate.

I agree with the Topic Creator.

Screw Africa. It's their own damn fault.

Aid works for incorrupt countries.
Aid does not work for corrupt countries.
Solution: remove corruption.

My tuppence.

Aid works for incorrupt countries.
Aid does not work for corrupt countries.
Solution: remove corruption.

My tuppence.

But does AIDS work for Corrupt Countries?

I agree with the Topic Creator.

Screw Africa. It's their own damn fault.
or Europe's, one of those

I agree with the Topic Creator.

Screw Africa. It's their own damn fault.

I guess Italy, France, America and Britain are completely innocent then. [/sarcasm]

...hurricanes and typhoons across the world are increasing in frequency and strength...

Once you account for increased development of coastal property (which has raised financial damage figures for hurricanes and typhoons) there's not really any evidence to suggest that this is true.

I agree with the Topic Creator.

Screw Africa. It's their own damn fault.

I agree to a certain point.

I guess Italy, France, America and Britain are completely innocent then. [/sarcasm]

Yeah, I was just going to say that the whole 'raping the country for profit and fun and destroying its viability for decades--if not centuries--to come' might have had a teensy bit to do with it.

Africa's gone to the dogs... At this point, sending them anymore monetary aid to Africa (notice the word monetary) will be a complete waste of Taxpayer Dollars (I hate my government... it sends money to other countries, when They should be Giving IT BACK TO ME!!!! Spend it on my roads so my car doesn't hit a god-damned potholl every three blocks, or get these bums off the street, or put it into putting these criminals back into chain gangs... Stop spending on OTHER COUNTRIES! If I wanted to give money to Africa, I'd have sent it in as a donation to some charity. My Government Is NOT a World Charity Fund, and shouldn't even consider sending money elsewhere but back to where it's supposed to go... woah, that's a long parentheses... oh, and I live in So Cal... poor me...).

Anyways, why?

Because the place is corrupt, so any money we send to them just gets sucked away into their corrupt dictatorship's pocket. Only direct aid, giving them food, medicine and other things will help them. And that only in the very short term. They need to fend for themselves. If they can't figure it out now, they never will, and there is nothing we can do to help them except prolong the inevitable.

Africa's gone to the dogs... At this point, sending them anymore monetary aid to Africa (notice the word monetary) will be a complete waste of Taxpayer Dollars (I hate my government... it sends money to other countries, when They should be Giving IT BACK TO ME!!!! Spend it on my roads so my car doesn't hit a god-damned potholl every three blocks, or get these bums off the street, or put it into putting these criminals back into chain gangs... Stop spending on OTHER COUNTRIES! If I wanted to give money to Africa, I'd have sent it in as a donation to some charity. My Government Is NOT a World Charity Fund, and shouldn't even consider sending money elsewhere but back to where it's supposed to go... woah, that's a long parentheses... oh, and I live in So Cal... poor me...).

Anyways, why?

Because the place is corrupt, so any money we send to them just gets sucked away into their corrupt dictatorship's pocket. Only direct aid, giving them food, medicine and other things will help them. And that only in the very short term. They need to fend for themselves. If they can't figure it out now, they never will, and there is nothing we can do to help them except prolong the inevitable.

Oh damn it, be glad we live in a country with a great road system. We have one of the best in the world.

We'd be better funneling it ALL into Education.

We'd also be better funneling all of Medicaid and Medicare into Education as well.

Oh damn it, be glad we live in a country with a great road system. We have one of the best in the world.

We'd be better funneling it ALL into Education.

We'd also be better funneling all of Medicaid and Medicare into Education as well.

lol Serap, I agree, give it back to the states to put it back into education (Education is a State's Right, not a Federal Right). And yes, we do have a great road system... but not so much in LA... So yes, give it back to education.

Not so keen on the whole Medicare/Medicaid thing, but I completely agree with the education, heh.

Substitute American South after civil war for Africa and see how well it fits.

As an African let me respond:

Yes all of this is true to a point! However, as with most problems it is multifacitited and multidimensional.

If there is a genuie feeling that Africa is a mess, to fix it we must first decide what a fixed Africa should look like and to to that you have to ask those of us who live(d) there. I personally would like to see a socialy conservative, liberal democracy with only sufficient capitalim and socialism to offset each other and most importantly and end to race and tribe politics.

We African men do need to change, we have been allowed our masogonistic habits for too long, and the spread of AIDS is primaraly because of the paternalistic nature or our societies, that deam women as second class citizens and sex tools rather than people with feelings and rights.

I persoanally feel that there are two routes towards dealing with Africas problems; the first is to try solve the biggest problems first with bucket lads of money, troops and whatever else you can throw at them, or my prefered route, solve the smaller problems first and use the countries that have fixed their situations to cadjole the other countries into change. So - liberate Zimbabwe and Equitorial Gunie rather than try to liberate Dafour - create food stability rather than try to cure AIDS.

And I suppose most importantly stop patronising us; help us.

As an African let me respond:

Yes all of this is true to a point! However, as with most problems it is multifacitited and multidimensional.

If there is a genuie feeling that Africa is a mess, to fix it we must first decide what a fixed Africa should look like and to to that you have to ask those of us who live(d) there. I personally would like to see a socialy conservative, liberal democracy with only sufficient capitalim and socialism to offset each other and most importantly and end to race and tribe politics.

We African men do need to change, we have been allowed our masogonistic habits for too long, and the spread of AIDS is primaraly because of the paternalistic nature or our societies, that deam women as second class citizens and sex tools rather than people with feelings and rights.

I persoanally feel that there are two routes towards dealing with Africas problems; the first is to try solve the biggest problems first with bucket lads of money, troops and whatever else you can throw at them, or my prefered route, solve the smaller problems first and use the countries that have fixed their situations to cadjole the other countries into change. So - liberate Zimbabwe and Equitorial Gunie rather than try to liberate Dafour - create food stability rather than try to cure AIDS.

And I suppose most importantly stop patronising us; help us.

As an African let me respond:

Yes all of this is true to a point! However, as with most problems it is multifacitited and multidimensional.

If there is a genuie feeling that Africa is a mess, to fix it we must first decide what a fixed Africa should look like and to to that you have to ask those of us who live(d) there. I personally would like to see a socialy conservative, liberal democracy with only sufficient capitalim and socialism to offset each other and most importantly and end to race and tribe politics.

We African men do need to change, we have been allowed our masogonistic habits for too long, and the spread of AIDS is primaraly because of the paternalistic nature or our societies, that deam women as second class citizens and sex tools rather than people with feelings and rights.

I persoanally feel that there are two routes towards dealing with Africas problems; the first is to try solve the biggest problems first with bucket lads of money, troops and whatever else you can throw at them, or my prefered route, solve the smaller problems first and use the countries that have fixed their situations to cadjole the other countries into change. So - liberate Zimbabwe and Equitorial Gunie rather than try to liberate Dafour - create food stability rather than try to cure AIDS.

And I suppose most importantly stop patronising us; help us.