NationStates Jolt Archive

There was once a dream that was America.

A country that was built on hopes and ideals.
One that would have laws that were fair to everyone regardless of faith, or creed.
In the 1950's the American Dream was refined into the ideal picturesque setting that would give all of us what we truly wanted.
The nice tidy house with a white picket fence, with 2.3 children.
Sundays spent taking the boat up to the lake, and roasting maeshmallows by the fire....ahh yes..that was the good life, and we all should strive for it.
What more could anyone want, right?

But the Dream died, somewhere along the way...

That kind of lifestyle isnt available to all of us, is it?
Homes these days cost over 100,000 dollars, in a nice little suburbian town..
Kids....not everyone really wants to have em..
Boat?

Maybe along the way, we forgot how to look towards the future, or maybe we just realized that the American Dream never existed?
These days we have people who would like to make laws to prevent gay people from having the same rights as straight ones, or to tell some people that they MUST have a baby, if they should get pregnant..

Isnt that the kind of thing our ancestors came here to get away from?
Wasnt that thier American Dream?

When was the day that we started to have our leaders tell us what to dream?
When was it that we decided that our dream to be how to live like we are told?
Why do we not feel outrage at our leaders, when they make laws that take those dreams away from us, or others?

If your born a minority in this country, your odds of getting that white picketed yard near a good school for your kids is even slimmer.
Living in major cities is increasingly risky these days.
Ghettos are no place for dreams, anymore.

Racial inequality, political distrust and bickering, wars for profit, Aids, cancer,
fast-food, child molesting in church, homelessness.....wait....this isnt what we wanted...?

When did it change?
Why did it change?

How did we get so far away from what it was all about?

Is the American Dream dead?

My American Dream is going quite nicely. Of course - I'm a rich, heterosexual white man.

My American Dream is going quite nicely. Of course - I'm a rich, heterosexual white man.


Thats all its for anymnore.

Nobody else it seems.

Isnt that the kind of thing our ancestors came here to get away from?
Wasnt that their American Dream?

When was the day that we started to have our leaders tell us what to dream?
When was it that we decided that our dream to be how to live like we are told?
Why do we not feel outrage at our leaders, when they make laws that take those dreams away from us, or others?

If your born a minority in this country, your odds of getting that white picketed yard near a good school for your kids is even slimmer.
Living in major cities is increasingly risky these days.
Ghettos are no place for dreams, anymore.

Racial inequality, political distrust and bickering, wars for profit, Aids, cancer,
fast-food, child molesting in church, homelessness.....wait....this isnt what we wanted...?

When did it change?
Why did it change?

How did we get so far away from what it was all about?

Is the American Dream dead?

Wow. I've criticised for years that any american couldn't see this. Again, wow, you did.

Thats all its for anymnore.

Nobody else it seems.

Well... I'll keep the dream alive for the rest of you. You're welcome. ;)

Thats all its for anymnore.

Nobody else it seems.


Very True...

Oh the Irony of "Give me your tired your poor, your huddled masses, and I will shine my torch at the glden door" or whatever it is...

Maybe they should chisel in "White, Hetrosexual and Christian" before "Huddled masses"...


Homes these days cost over 100,000 dollars, in a nice little suburbian town..
Count yourself lucky, here in the UK a nice suburban home costs around £200,000 to £400,000, which is about $350,000 to $700,000.

Wow. I've criticised for years that any american couldn't see this. Again, wow, you did.


Im not the only one.

Like Gartef said, if your not a rich hetero white male, the dream aint for you...not in this country.

Thats the thing that kills me.
It didnt used to be this way.

It seems we keep lowering our expectations of ourselves, until we become apathetic to what we see.

In a sense...weve lost our direction, as a nation, and a people.

Very True...

Oh the Irony of "Give me your tired your poor, your huddled masses, and I will shine my torch at the glden door" or whatever it is...

Maybe they should chisel in "White, Hetrosexual and Christian" before "Huddled masses"...


Count yourself lucky, here in the UK a nice suburban home costs around £200,000 to £400,000, which is about $350,000 to $700,000.


Around where I live 130,000 will get you a small two or three bedroom home, with a basement..and a small front and back yard.
Nice...but certainly nothing fancy.

The dream isn't dead, it is just a lot tougher to obtain. To get a good job these days, you have to go through college. That means you amass a huge amount of debt before you get started. Equality is not where it should to be, but it is DAMN better than it was in 1950. I figure if the country survives the next few years without sinking into depression and endless debate, we should be back on track. Just call me the optimist...

There was once a dream that was America.

A country that was built on hopes and ideals.
One that would have laws that were fair to everyone regardless of faith, or creed.


In the 50's, wernt blacks treated as second class citizens? like, only on the back of the bus etc.

Either way, for your answer, someone famous said something, i THINK it was churchill, i may be wrong,,

"the only difference between a dictatership and a democracy, is time"

I know its not 100% relevent but, in a way, it is, especialy when you see the way democracy is going here in the UK.

Ok, everybody heard about the american dream but have it ever really existed? Ask the american natives, the owners of this land. Ask, the chinese colies that made posible the trains, ask the black slaves and later their heirs, sitted in the back of buses 'til the sixties. Ask the women or the mexicans, owners of a third of the USA territory,even texas. Ask all the people that have no medial insurance. Ask the enviroment. It's a shark dream, just the stronger survives. it's a cruel dream, at least from a today's european point of view.

The american dream it's the new world's people's opium, something to dream with but reserved for some. Even if it everybody would have the same choices, and it's not the case, for every winner there are several losers.

In a sense...weve lost our direction, as a nation, and a people.
Cool - welcome to the European mindset. :D

Ever heard of the European Dream? No. Because all we've got is cold, harsh reality. :p

Cool - welcome to the European mindset. :D

Ever heard of the European Dream? No. Because all we've got is cold, harsh reality. :p

Yes, I agree. And, seriously, that's the reason why the left-wings are in that way.

Ok, everybody heard about the american dream but have it ever really existed? Ask the american natives, the owners of this land. Ask, the chinese colies that made posible the trains, ask the black slaves and later their heirs, sitted in the back of buses 'til the sixties. Ask the women or the mexicans, owners of a third of the USA territory,even texas. Ask all the people that have no medial insurance. Ask the enviroment. It's a shark dream, just the stronger survives. it's a cruel dream, at least from a today's european point of view.

The american dream it's the new world's people's opium, something to dream with but reserved for some. Even if it everybody would have the same choices, and it's not the case, for every winner there are several losers.

The Native American Indians didn't own the land. They would have been offended if you had suggested anything like land ownership to them. They had such a hard time understanding it, in fact, that it gave the European settlers a distinct advantage over them.

I'm all for recognizing the wrong we've done to people in the past, but misrepresenting the issue is not the way to go about it.


As far as what the OP posted...

The America you pine for never existed. The "American Dream", at least in the way you describe it, was a conservative catch phrase co-opted by people that just wanted to get back to normalcy after WWII. They wanted women to go back to being Susie Homemaker and the men to go be the breadwinners. All the while there was still deep, unthinking racial animosity and a rapidly epxanding national government.

The real American Dream is the idea that here you can go as far as your talent, determination and a little luck will take you. And that, my friend, is still alive and well.

I'm not a blind Uberpatriot. I know that there are plenty of things that we, as Americans, need to be aware of... cautious of. Being the sole remaining superpower is a huge responsibility and I don't believe we've handled it particularly well yet.

Still and all, I'm sick and tired of hearing people slam the US without giving the US any credit at all. I have no problem with anyone pointing out America's mistakes so long as they also point out our triumphs. For better or worse, we are the bastion of self-determination in the world. There's something to be said for that. Where would the world be if the Soviet Union had won the Cold War? Or if China were the only world superpower?

As for Europeans, I'm not sure what to make of their positions sometimes. I've had many, many European friends throughout the years and it seems that a great many Euros WANT to hate the US. It's strange, because Americans generally love Europeans (except the French). So why do so many of you folks dislike us so intensely?

Is it because we're so optimistic as a people and you've given that up for cold cynicism? Do you see in us the sort of sunny disposition you've abdicated and yet still envy? Is it because we're so self-righteous (and yes, we generally are, I can admit that)? Is it because we, a younger country, are far more prosperous and powerful than you? What is it?

The American Dream is DEAD!!! Its been dead since the 60's. All we know now is MONEY and Greed. We all worship a new god now. His name is All Mighty Dolla!!!

Freedoms are still there, for now. But we are working to get rid of those too. God knows freedom of speach has been used and abused to death and soon to die. And the right to bear arms. Well, your government cant have that now can they.

And of course we can't think for ourselves on our own bodies. (Drugs, Stim Cells, Abortions.) Becase Goverment Knows Best. Hell even relgion is working on its political power again. The dark ages was a long time ago. Time to flex the GOD muscles.

And Justice....HA...If you have money you are innocent. If you are poor you a Guilty as sin and will die for your lack of money.

No I am not bitter. I am just wonder what is this American Dream you speak of.

The American Dream is DEAD!!! Its been dead since the 60's. All we know now is MONEY and Greed. We all worship a new god now. His name is All Mighty Dolla!!!


I thought it was the National Security. You always do everything for your national security, as fas as I remember.

I thought it was the National Security. You always do everything for your national security, as fas as I remember.

NATIONAL SECURITY??? Whats that??? If you want to get into USA come through Mexico. We have no security.

I'm a poor Hispanic white guy and my American Dream is coming along nicely :D

Much of the American dream was in this region where land was plentiful. Who would have ever dreamed back then that all of a country would be citites and metropolitans? Money was once reaped from hard work, now it is reaped from government control.

The American Dream is still alive though. Now I just dream of working my ass off and then giving what I deserve to everyone and everything else.

you have to work hard to achieve, not quit while whining that life isn't fair. whiners fail as a rule. Has there been legislation introduced? Or are you accusing people of thought crime?

Its' because of Affirminative Action.

Now, it is not possible for Whites and Asians to succeed.

Damn it.

The American Dream was there. 50 years ago. So was Racism, but that had nothing to do with it.

The American Dream existed because parents instilled Morals and Values into their kids. Usually by Religion, but it doesn't matter how. It's just the point, that we've fallen from Morals, Values, and general stuff like that, because our parents have gotten lazy and stupid, and in turn, their kids have gotten lazy and stupid. What we need to do, is to undo the cultural changed, of 50 years. What killed it? The 60's killed the American Dream. We need to undo that.

As long as you're willing to work the American Dream is still alive and well. Whining and complaining about how unfair things are isn't going to get you a 500,000$ house and a beautiful family with a welsh corgy in the yard.

Part of being ambitious is recognizing your goal and sacrificing yourself in order to obtain it. Anything worth having is worth fighting for.

Im not the only one.

Like Gartef said, if your not a rich hetero white male, the dream aint for you...not in this country.

Thats the thing that kills me.
It didnt used to be this way.

It seems we keep lowering our expectations of ourselves, until we become apathetic to what we see.

In a sense...weve lost our direction, as a nation, and a people.
That is disillusionment. When the dream no longer suffices, it must be discarded and replaced with something more useful.

Perhaps our inability to replace it is due to our vast numbers; the more there are of us, the harder it is to find a consensus. A direction to evolve towards.

Its' because of Affirminative Action.

Now, it is not possible for Whites and Asians to succeed.

Damn it.

The American Dream was there. 50 years ago. So was Racism, but that had nothing to do with it.

The American Dream existed because parents instilled Morals and Values into their kids. Usually by Religion, but it doesn't matter how. It's just the point, that we've fallen from Morals, Values, and general stuff like that, because our parents have gotten lazy and stupid, and in turn, their kids have gotten lazy and stupid. What we need to do, is to undo the cultural changed, of 50 years. What killed it? The 60's killed the American Dream. We need to undo that.

I'm curious... exactly what constitutes "morals and values" to you?

Well, everyone has their own dreams of what they'd like to accomplish, but I don't think the 'American Dream' is about material things. I think it's that IN GENERAL (yes, there may be exceptions (though I can't think of any), calm down), no matter what your status at birth, you can rise to be whatever you want,as long as you work for it. You can live in an apartment in NYC, or own 20 acres in Wyoming. You have your choice of occupation. This is unlike some societies, wherein your status at birth decides the rest of your life for you.

All in all, I think the American Dream is about the possibilities. It's that you can make your life whatever you want it to be.

Bleh... There never was an American dream. The only dream of America was in the declaration of independance, that man had rights that couldn't be taken, and even those are taken today.

Americans are being too silly about this. We don't have a unified dream, we each have a different dream, and if we could just accept that and let eachother pursue our own goals without trying to force our dreams off on them. But we can't seem to live and let live. :mad:

So... if there was an American Dream, it has died and been used to clog the pipe of freedom.

Thats all its for anymnore.

Nobody else it seems.

well it sure as hell isn't for whiners

to get the Dream, most of us must WORK for it... expecting help from others is no way to realize the American Dream...something our American ancestors understood as well.

as for the person poo-pooing the argument against killing would-be babies, you have no sympathy from me. if you think it's okay to take innocent life, you sure as hell shouldn't be against the death penalty.

(i think it's healthy to be either pro- or anti-life... either pro-abortion and pro-death penalty OR anti-abortion and anti-death penalty)

My, aren't we a thread chalk full of optimistic people?

Oy, I was being optimistic!

Im not the only one.

Like Gartef said, if your not a rich hetero white male, the dream aint for you...not in this country.

Thats the thing that kills me.
It didnt used to be this way.

It seems we keep lowering our expectations of ourselves, until we become apathetic to what we see.

In a sense...weve lost our direction, as a nation, and a people.
you mean you think there WAS a time when a nice black gay couple could own a house with a white picket fence and a house at the lake with a boat and everyone accepting them as equals?

i think we have jacked up the american dream from "owning your own small home" to "owning a mcmansion in a fancy subdivision, 2 $50k cars, private school for your 1.8 kids". so that no one is satisfied with the lifestyle that they can actually afford.

you mean you think there WAS a time when a nice black gay couple could own a house with a white picket fence and a house at the lake with a boat and everyone accepting them as equals?

i think we have jacked up the american dream from "owning your own small home" to "owning a mcmansion in a fancy subdivision, 2 $50k cars, private school for your 1.8 kids". so that no one is satisfied with the lifestyle that they can actually afford.

I blame the legalized scam that is the credit industry.

It's not a scam; you know exactly what you're getting yourself into when you sign up. Being a rip off doesn't make it a scam.

The American Dream is more alive now than ever. As mentioned before, in the 50s the dream might have been more advertised, but was unattainable for minorities. Now people actually have more equality and even a gay black couple could find a suburban neighborhood to live in, if that's what they want. Regardless of where you're born, you can achive your personal American Dream through hard work and determination.

If you have any hopes of making a valid point, you really should check your spelling and grammar usage.

As for me, things are going quite well. I'm doing what I want, where I want and having a great time doing.

Don't look for anyone to make your dream happen for you or blame someone else when it doesn't. You want to know what's really wrong with America? No one wants to accept responsibility for his or her own actions and dreams.

These days we have people who would like to make laws to prevent gay people from having the same rights as straight ones, or to tell some people that they MUST have a baby, if they should get pregnant..

next thing you know those same Christian bastards will want to take away your slaves

The real American Dream is the idea that here you can go as far as your talent, determination and a little luck will take you. And that, my friend, is still alive and well.
No. Thats a lie. Luck, happening to be friends or family with the right people and alot of ass kissing is what will get you far nowadays. I know plenty of people who have great jobs, are nowhere near as talented as myself or some of my friends, but theyre on top of the world with cushy jobs and nice pay. The American Dream is a joke and a slogan nothing more. Talent and determination means crap to 95% of the people out there. College for the most part is just a debt trap.

It's not a scam; you know exactly what you're getting yourself into when you sign up. Being a rip off doesn't make it a scam.

The American Dream is more alive now than ever. As mentioned before, in the 50s the dream might have been more advertised, but was unattainable for minorities. Now people actually have more equality and even a gay black couple could find a suburban neighborhood to live in, if that's what they want. Regardless of where you're born, you can achive your personal American Dream through hard work and determination.

It is a scam.

They call it credit but your "credit rating" has nothing do with how reliable you are. It has everything to do with how long you allow credit companies to soak you. In other words, if you pay something off early that does not raise your credit score. If, however, you borrow money and pay back a little at a time until the original item costs more than twice what you "bought" it for, allowing the credit companies to pocket the difference... then they raise your credit rating. WTF?!

And nowadays you can't get a large loan for a house, car, boat, etc without a good credit rating. So, in essence, credit companies have made paying them for services not rendered an indispensable part of our economy.

That, my friends, is a scam.

No. Thats a lie. Luck, happening to be friends or family with the right people and alot of ass kissing is what will get you far nowadays. I know plenty of people who have great jobs, are nowhere near as talented as myself or some of my friends, but theyre on top of the world with cushy jobs and nice pay. The American Dream is a joke and a slogan nothing more. Talent and determination means crap to 95% of the people out there. College for the most part is just a debt trap.

It is not a lie. You can't be concerned with what may have happened to other people. It's possible that you've run into people who don't care about talent or determination, but for the most part, the people who are the most influential are there because they have talent and determination. You have to be willing to try, and not just write it off as "well, I don't know the "right people", so I don't have a chance".

Is the American Dream dead?


Of course it's not dead. Most Americans are too lazy to go out and find it. We want it handed to us. We want Uncle Sam to hold our hand and guide us through the land of opportunity. My God, this is the laziest generation in our history and it's probalby due to the breakup of the family and the support systems they provide.
For the youth, 17 and older, don't tell me there are no jobs out there because there are plenty. Every state job bank is full of jobs. However, it's some rediculous sense of pride that keeps most from taking them. So what if it pays minimum wage or close to it. Young people think they should start somewhere in the middle just because they have a few years of education behind them. Education is secondary to experience in the real world. Still can't find a job? Then create one. You have to have some sort of talent or hobby. Be creative and turn that into a means of living, hell, start selling on Ebay. Not interested in that, or can't get into college? The military needs you. Afraid of going to war? Choose an occupation that will keep you off the front lines, join the Navy. Have a job and still can't make ends meet? Get a second or a third.
When our ancestors came off the boat they noticed right away that the streets weren't paved in gold. The same is true now. Sitting at home watching Big Brother 6 or Desperate Housewives on the TV will not get you any closer to that American Dream. The American Dream is still there for everyone. It may not be the same dream our ancestors had in mind but then why would it be, these are different times. You measure your own level of success based on your own abilities and your own goals and self determination.

well it sure as hell isn't for whiners

to get the Dream, most of us must WORK for it... expecting help from others is no way to realize the American Dream...something our American ancestors understood as well.

as for the person poo-pooing the argument against killing would-be babies, you have no sympathy from me. if you think it's okay to take innocent life, you sure as hell shouldn't be against the death penalty.

(i think it's healthy to be either pro- or anti-life... either pro-abortion and pro-death penalty OR anti-abortion and anti-death penalty)

Hey ..way to make assumptions about people you dont even know!

You rock!

I betcha I work harder than you do.

Hard work is something most people are capable of.
Anything worth anything, is worth working hard to acheive.

But, if you dont think the odds of success arent stacked against you if you arent white, and born into money...your probably either not from this country..or youve never bothered to actually look.

Hey ..way to make assumptions about people you dont even know!

You rock!

I betcha I work harder than you do.

Hard work is something most people are capable of.
Anything worth anything, is worth working hard to acheive.

But, if you dont think the odds of success arent stacked against you if you arent white, and born into money...your probably either not from this country..or youve never bothered to actually look.

Me not white, not born into money, born American. Not graduate college, neither. But me have wife, house, cars, big tvs, etc. And me remember when me young, my parents lived the American dream. When I was born, they lived in a duplex, then when I was three they moved into a small house, then when I was five or six, they moved into a huge house. And our neighbors were black like us, and the neighbors on the right (father was an architect) bought the vacant lot on our left, and built a second home there. All huge two-story houses. All before the civil rights acts of the 60's. Of course, maybe it was just different in New Jersey...

Work hard, and keep your eyes open. Opportunities will keep coming your way, if you are patient. Prayer helps too, lots and lots of prayer.

Whoops, time to go to bed. They won't pay me to stay at home (darn!), gotta get sleep. Nightall. :cool:

Me not white, not born into money, born American. Not graduate college, neither. But me have wife, house, cars, big tvs, etc. And me remember when me young, my parents lived the American dream. When I was born, they lived in a duplex, then when I was three they moved into a small house, then when I was five or six, they moved into a huge house. And our neighbors were black like us, and the neighbors on the right (father was an architect) bought the vacant lot on our left, and built a second home there. All huge two-story houses. All before the civil rights acts of the 60's. Of course, maybe it was just different in New Jersey...

Work hard, and keep your eyes open. Opportunities will keep coming your way, if you are patient. Prayer helps too, lots and lots of prayer.

Whoops, time to go to bed. They won't pay me to stay at home (darn!), gotta get sleep. Nightall. :cool:

Why for you talk like Tazmanian devil?

A dream? Built on Hope and ideals? It is doomed to fail. We cant hope for the future, hope it will change into something "better" We have to Change ourselfs before we can change the world.