NationStates Jolt Archive

So some US states have laws making sodomy, whether homosexual or heterosexual a criminal offense. These laws are often backed by Christian conservatives, you know, the ones who want fewer laws regulating industries. Why do they want more laws regulating how two adults screw?

They want power and control, obviously.

How could one enforce sodomy laws? I mean, how could you prove that one's wife was facing the wrong way (so to speak)?

Do states actually have sodomy laws, still?

They want power and control, obviously.

How could one enforce sodomy laws? I mean, how could you prove that one's wife was facing the wrong way (so to speak)?

Do states actually have sodomy laws, still?
As far as I know some states still have them. I, however, live in one of the "smart" states.

So some US states have laws making sodomy, whether homosexual or heterosexual a criminal offense. These laws are often backed by Christian conservatives, you know, the ones who want fewer laws regulating industries. Why do they want more laws regulating how two adults screw?

Because they think it's their duty to tell everyone what to do and how to act regardless of whether or not everyone agrees with them. They use their religion as an excuse for power over others.

Fewer (not none, just fewer) laws regulating industry and no laws regulating the actions of adults would be best of all...but that would get rid of the nutjob right's talking points. We don't wan't any of those "somdomites" (sic and if you get the reference, :cool: ) polluting our Christian nation...

It used to be the case that Arkansas's legal code didn't specifically prohibit incestual sodomy. I don't know that that's the case anymore, though.

As far as I know some states still have them. I, however, live in one of the "smart" states.

New Jersey, correct?

Here's a map of the US sodomy laws (convienetly enough, they almost all only apply to homosexuals and are in the Bible Belt):

http://www.sodomylaws.org/usa/usa.htm

Note: In 2003 these laws were declared unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court.

It used to be the case that Arkansas's legal code didn't specifically prohibit incestual sodomy. I don't know that that's the case anymore, though.
So in Arkansas, technically, I could get a blowjob from my cousin, but not from a random drunk fat chick I meet in a bar?

1898 In a new criminal code, New Jersey permits any person to kill someone who was “attempting to commit sodomy,” whether or not the person doing the killing was the potential victim. Such killer would be “guiltless, and shall be totally acquitted and discharged.”

I guess NJ used to be pretty backward and oppressive.

No more poopie sex.

1898 In a new criminal code, New Jersey permits any person to kill someone who was “attempting to commit sodomy,” whether or not the person doing the killing was the potential victim. Such killer would be “guiltless, and shall be totally acquitted and discharged.”.

I wonder how many murderers claimed their victims were trying to sodomize them? :rolleyes:

1898 In a new criminal code, New Jersey permits any person to kill someone who was “attempting to commit sodomy,” whether or not the person doing the killing was the potential victim. Such killer would be “guiltless, and shall be totally acquitted and discharged.”

I guess NJ used to be pretty backward and oppressive.


lol
Sodomy: Any of various forms of sexual intercourse held to be unnatural or abnormal, especially anal intercourse or bestiality.

So once upon a time in New Jersey you could kill a man and say he told you he was gonna go home and have anal sex with his wife.


Ah the good old days

Yes, some states still have them. Texas has laws against people owning more than six dildos at any given time, too. *rolls eyes* I've no idea how they plan on enforcing such, but I'm sure that if they tried, it'd be the proverbial witchhunt.

As someone else previously stated, they want control and power, and to shape their state/country to their "ideal".

Meh. As wrong as I think Sodomy is, you can't stop people from doing what they want in the privacy of their own homes.

It shouldn't be up to us to force our morality on someone...

1898 In a new criminal code, New Jersey permits any person to kill someone who was “attempting to commit sodomy,” whether or not the person doing the killing was the potential victim. Such killer would be “guiltless, and shall be totally acquitted and discharged.”

I guess NJ used to be pretty backward and oppressive.

I wouldn't say oppressive. Just stupid.

Meh. As wrong as I think Sodomy is, you can't stop people from doing what they want in the privacy of their own homes.

It shouldn't be up to us to force our morality on someone...

Not trying to pick a fight - just the way I (possibly mis-)read what you wrote: if that's the case, shouldn't we also allow public sodomy?

Not trying to pick a fight - just the way I (possibly mis-)read what you wrote: if that's the case, shouldn't we also allow public sodomy?

I think my right not to have to watch people have sex in front of me far outweighs someone's right to have sex.

There are public decency laws, you know.

It is illegal in Arkansas to engage in incestual sodomy. That's been the law for a long time.

I wouldn't say oppressive. Just stupid.

That was in 1898, people weren't exactly logical then.

Man: "I was late because I was looking for your wife so I could give her the old wereeeooooo!."

Shoots man

Ahhh that's the good stuff

So some US states have laws making sodomy, whether homosexual or heterosexual a criminal offense. These laws are often backed by Christian conservatives, you know, the ones who want fewer laws regulating industries. Why do they want more laws regulating how two adults screw?

Back when the laws were made it was widely believed such activies caused several diseases and were a major cause of many of the STDs of the time...so those laws were made, science evolved and the laws were largely forgotten about, since we all know law books containing all the laws are larger then the entire encolopidas we have today.. and now the left came along and saw these laws and added new meanings behind them in order to fuel their hatreds towards religious people knowing that very few people will actually go back and read why these things were enacted in the first place since americans are nothing more then sheep that never really do think for themselves, kinda like you...

You might think you are stating your own free will there, but in fact you are using left wing catch phrases. Which means you=sheep.

So some US states have laws making sodomy, whether homosexual or heterosexual a criminal offense. These laws are often backed by Christian conservatives, you know, the ones who want fewer laws regulating industries. Why do they want more laws regulating how two adults screw?
Because in their world view, which I fail to comprehend, the "proliferation" of homosexuality is a greater threat to society than unchecked corporate self-interest.

Keep your Jesus off my Penis...

Quite seriously: Who I take to bed with me and what I do with them is MY, and ONLY my business. My country has NO say whatsoever when it comes to something that is, and I think in this even the most devout Christian will agree, ultimately private and personal.

How DARES a country call itself free if it forces ridiculous laws onto its citizens that concern only their ultimately intimate space?

The function of laws is, quite simply, to make living together possible. And to keep someone who is "strong" from doing something to the disadvantage of someone "weak". Killing is illegal, because someone who is "strong" (read: has a gun) could gut me and take my stuff, and I think there are few people who'd not agree that this is to my disadvantage.

Who is at disadvantage when 2 people do something they really wanna do? Both wanna do it, nobody else is involved (don't get me wrong, I certainly wouldn't want them to do it in the middle of the main road at noon), so what's the deal?

Laws aren't there to regulate something that doesn't need regulation. It's as ridiculous as demanding that everyone wears green on Sunday when sitting 'round the house 'cause someone thinks it looks cool. The function of laws is, simply, to make living together possible without fearing that someone is taking something from you that's rightfully yours. That's what laws are about.

Not about harrassing people.

Back when the laws were made it was widely believed such activies caused several diseases and were a major cause of many of the STDs of the time...so those laws were made, science evolved and the laws were largely forgotten about, since we all know law books containing all the laws are larger then the entire encolopidas we have today.. and now the left came along and saw these laws and added new meanings behind them in order to fuel their hatreds towards religious people knowing that very few people will actually go back and read why these things were enacted in the first place since americans are nothing more then sheep that never really do think for themselves, kinda like you...

You might think you are stating your own free will there, but in fact you are using left wing catch phrases. Which means you=sheep.
me=not sheep.
me think for meself.
me just happen to agree with left wing on subject of sodomy law.
me disagree with left wing on other subjects.

me=not sheep.
me think for meself.
me just happen to agree with left wing on subject of sodomy law.
me disagree with left wing on other subjects.

Me Grimlock agree!

Puritanism - the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.

Puritanism - the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.

"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." Quite appropriate when applied to the states with these laws, I must say.

I'd like to ask what exactly is included in "sodomy". I have a vague idea, but I could be wrong.
The German word "Sodomie", for instance means something completely different. It refers to "bestiality."

Puritanism - the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.So true... Why else did they burn down Globe Theatre? :D

I'd like to ask what exactly is included in "sodomy". I have a vague idea, but I could be wrong.
The German word "Sodomie", for instance means something completely different. It refers to "bestiality."
In most states wher it's banned I think it refers to oral or anal sex.

In most states wher it's banned I think it refers to oral or anal sex.I thought it might be "non-traditional" sex, but I wasn't sure if it only referred to anal sex or if there was more.
Thanks :)

Sodomy laws are incredibly silly. I might well believe that the only correct type of sex is missionary position, strictly within marriage, and only for procreation - but how the hell can I enforce that on others? Forget about how moral it is - how can one enforce that?

Sodomy laws are a total violation of someone's civil liberties. They should of been tossed out years ago in this country. I'm shocked that they were only tossed out by the Supreme Court in 2003. But heck, those religious fanatics who think they can push these little laws should understand there is no way you can enforce them.

Gulf Republics:

and now the left came along and saw these laws and added new meanings behind them in order to fuel their hatreds towards religious people knowing that very few people will actually go back and read why these things were enacted in the first place since americans are nothing more then sheep that never really do think for themselves..

Man... you need to fix that run-on sentence.

It was actually religious conservatives who brought up these laws to use against homosexuals.

Sodomy laws are incredibly silly. I might well believe that the only correct type of sex is missionary position, strictly within marriage, and only for procreation - but how the hell can I enforce that on others? Forget about how moral it is - how can one enforce that?Hehe...
One of the German channels sent a camera team to the states to look at silly laws once. When they were in Florida, they asked around what people thought of the law that only the missinary position is legal. An old guy said he needed a demonstration of all the positions first to be able to decide while a lot of other people were wondering if they were going to get busted while in the act... :D

Hehe...
One of the German channels sent a camera team to the states to look at silly laws once. When they were in Florida, they asked around what people thought of the law that only the missinary position is legal. An old guy said he needed a demonstration of all the positions first to be able to decide while a lot of other people were wondering if they were going to get busted while in the act... :D
Seriously, any other position is illegal? Wow… not even Caligula introduced a law against rolling ninety degrees.

Meh. As wrong as I think Sodomy is, you can't stop people from doing what they want in the privacy of their own homes.


Can you explain to me how sodomy is objectively wrong without mentioning the words "God", "Bible" and "Jesus"?

Can you explain to me how sodomy is objectively wrong without mentioning the words "God", "Bible" and "Jesus"? No, he can't, which is precisely why he's not trying to push it on others.

Do I speak correctly, Haloman?

Can you explain to me how sodomy is objectively wrong without mentioning the words "God", "Bible" and "Jesus"?
Well, according to Jim Norton (http://www.blogger.com/profile/3427846) "Part of me is afraid anal sex will hurt a woman, part of me is afraid it won't"

Seriously, any other position is illegal? Wow… not even Caligula introduced a law against rolling ninety degrees.I suppose it's one of those forgotten laws that's always been around but never enforced... :D

I suppose it's one of those forgotten laws that's always been around but never enforced... :D Nationstates has the answer - crack squads sent into couples' homes at midnight in the name of decency. :eek:

WHY would you ban any other position? Augustine's ideas on that were discredited…

Nationstates has the answer - crack squads sent into couples' homes at midnight in the name of decency. :eek:

WHY would you ban any other position? Augustine's ideas on that were discredited…I suppose some people find it indecent to have sex for fun. Since you can't really prove that the person wasn't doing it for fun, just make any "fun" positions illegal, since you technically don't need them for reproducing...
(although, actually, missionary is more likely to produce girls and spooning is more likely to produce boys... :p )

separation of church and state anyone?

separation of church and state anyone?This doesn't directly infringe on that... Murder is wrong both in the law books and in the Bible.
Now if there were to be a special governmental priest class that goes out and inspects people's sexual habits to make sure nothin illegal is happening, THAT would be an infringement on separation of Church and State. :D

I'm a conservative Christian, nevertheless, I don't support these laws... I'm a conservative, so why should I give the government the power to enter the bedroom?

Ugh...Sodomy laws, I still don't understand why they're still around. They violate our civil rights,plus they're almost impossible to enforce on people. Where's the ACLU when you need 'em? :p

This doesn't directly infringe on that... Murder is wrong both in the law books and in the Bible.
Now if there were to be a special governmental priest class that goes out and inspects people's sexual habits to make sure nothin illegal is happening, THAT would be an infringement on separation of Church and State. :D
The only reason why they would even want to ban sodomy is because (conservative) Christians want it.

The only reason why they would even want to ban sodomy is because (conservative) Christians want it.True, but it wouldn't be creating a theocracy or setting a precedent in that direction. It would be acting on one lobby group's opinion, and not necessarily illegal (utterly wrong in my mind, but not illegal).

I'm still laughing my ass off over the "you cannot own more than 6 dildoes" law in Texas. I really want to know who came up with that and why.

I'm still laughing my ass off over the "you cannot own more than 6 dildoes" law in Texas. I really want to know who came up with that and why.
A comitee composed of porn stars and doctors decided that two rubber peinises per orifice is the maximum safe load.

A comitee composed of porn stars and doctors decided that two rubber peinises per orifice is the maximum safe load.
Are you serious, or just kidding? ;)

I suppose some people find it indecent to have sex for fun. Since you can't really prove that the person wasn't doing it for fun, just make any "fun" positions illegal, since you technically don't need them for reproducing...
(although, actually, missionary is more likely to produce girls and spooning is more likely to produce boys... :p ) Indecent to have sex for fun? So, presumably you should sleep in separate beds on the wedding night. :confused:

Also, what is spooning?

Are you serious, or just kidding? ;)
Kidding, but I'd imagine that three or more dildos in one hole might cause some tearing issues.

Damned Christians telling em who I can roger and in what orrifice.

Fuck them.

Kidding, but I'd imagine that three or more dildos in one hole might cause some tearing issues.

yikes..*tries to not think about that*
I was actually thinking perhaps there are some people who like to have a dildo in every shade of the rainbow :P sort of like me and my shoe collection..

I'm a conservative Christian, nevertheless, I don't support these laws... I'm a conservative, so why should I give the government the power to enter the bedroom?
If only some of the other conservatives thought so clearly!

So some US states have laws making sodomy, whether homosexual or heterosexual a criminal offense.

I'm sure this has been mentioned, but, not anymore. All such laws were declared unconstitutional and are no longer in existence or enforceable.

Sodomy is alot like the truth; sometimes it hurts, but it'll always leave you feeling good in the end.

Sodomy is alot like the truth; sometimes it hurts, but it'll always leave you feeling good in the end.
And since oral sex is apparently sodomy in the wacko states, no one need be excluded from this glorious pleasure-pain combo.

separation of church and state anyone?

Christianity is not the centre of the world for homophobia. What about the treatment of gays under Stalin's SECULAR Soviet dictatorship, Mao's SECULAR communist government or Hitler's SECULAR Nazi dictatorship where they were thrown in concentration camps, murdered and were subjected to even more ruthless treatment than the Jews.

The marxists, the anarchists and the atheists like to think of themselves in some ways as the saviours of feminism and gay rights but in many ways they're really just as bad. Having said that, I am still an atheist.

Christianity is not the centre of the world for homophobia. What about the treatment of gays under Stalin's SECULAR Soviet dictatorship, Mao's SECULAR communist government or Hitler's SECULAR Nazi dictatorship where they were thrown in concentration camps and treated even worse than the Jews.

The and marxists, the anarchists and the atheists like to think of themselves in some ways as the saviours of feminism and gay rights but in many ways they're really just as bad. Having said that, I am still an atheist.
The Nazis weren't secular but your point is otherwise fair. I guess you don't have to be religious to be a despicable wanker, but it helps.









It's a joke. Don't fret yerselves.

The Nazis weren't secular but your point is otherwise fair.

I beg to differ. The policies of the Nazi government, were based purely upon tribalist, ethnic, irreligious, racist philosophies, although it's true they have a lot to thank the Vatican for. A lot of muslims helped them out too.

They want power and control, obviously.

How could one enforce sodomy laws? I mean, how could you prove that one's wife was facing the wrong way (so to speak)?

Do states actually have sodomy laws, still?

Well, they might be on the books, but the Supreme Court has ruled that the government has no right to intrude in the sexual affairs of consenting adults. That's why Pat Robertson was praying for God to "act against" two of the Supreme Court justices. I think one of them was Ruth Beder Ginsberg, I don't remember who the other one was. But then God said "oh ya you sanctimonious bitch? Here's what I think of you're hatred of liberal judges BAM! two Conservatives DOWN. In Yo Face Bitch!"

You'd think with his track record of prayer turning against him (hurricanes destroying churches after he says they're going to hit gay rallies, hitting Virginia after he publicly tells the director of his college that only a heathen would close because God will turn the hurricane away from Virginia.) he'd learn to shut up and pray for things that have already happened.

But then again, he's got a more credulous audience than John Edward used to have.

No, he can't, which is precisely why he's not trying to push it on others.


Simply making discrimination against a particular group illegal will not make it disappear. There are laws against sexism and racism and these social problems are still prevalent in most societies. We ask these questions because a societal change is required. Most people who say somody is "wrong" do so because they associate it with homosexuality. To say it is "wrong" is homophobic, regardless of whether or not they wish to force their views on others.

Simply making discrimination against a particular group illegal will not make it disappear. There are laws against sexism and racism and these social problems are still prevalent in most societies. We ask these questions because a societal change is required. Most people who say somody is "wrong" do so because they associate it with homosexuality. To say it is "wrong" is homophobic, regardless of whether or not they wish to force their views on others. Saying that homosexuality is wrong is not discriminatory. The difference is that one is thought, while the other is action.

Is it possible that no one mentioned Texas v. Lawrence on this thread? You know, the SUPREME COURT DECISION SAYING THAT SODOMY LAWS ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL? I guess so. All of those sodomy laws have been invalidated. This is rather a moot point.

As far as I know some states still have them. I, however, live in one of the "smart" states.

I live in one of the 'dumb' states. Florida.

Saying that homosexuality is wrong is not discriminatory.

How isn't it?

The difference is that one is thought, while the other is action.

So?

One does not require an opportunity to denigrate a homsexual to be homophobic.

Ugh...Sodomy laws, I still don't understand why they're still around. They violate our civil rights,plus they're almost impossible to enforce on people. Where's the ACLU when you need 'em? :p
i think the aclu waits until some poor soul gets charged with criminal sodomy before they bother with stuff like this.

when was the last time anyone got tossed into prison for sodomy in idaho and if they DID would that really be the proper punishment??

How isn't it?



So?

One does not require an opportunity to denigrate a homsexual to be homophobic. Discrimination is when one treats another as less important, or worse, because of race/sex/whatever.
Imagine that you smoke with a child in your house. I might not like that, but that doesn't mean I discriminate against you.

Up until 50 years ago, oral sex was illegal in 46 states and sodomy illegal in all of them. Most of the laws were repealed, and those that weren't aren't enforced.

Thank you, Alfred Kinsey.

:fluffle: Sodomy laws are incredibly silly. I might well believe that the only correct type of sex is missionary position, strictly within marriage, and only for procreation - but how the hell can I enforce that on others? Forget about how moral it is - how can one enforce that?

Well it has been enforced through the bible, through mind washing upbringing, and through laws that re-enforce the upbringing.

It was first in the bible (in areas that no longer exist in christianity) related to Lilith (Adam's first wife) who wanted a more "fun" style. God made her go away for that reason (not just divorce guys).

Missionary comes from the time where missionaries taught "savages" the "proper" way of procreation.

In the catholic school/system I was brought up (12 years), I freqently heard from teachers/priests/nuns "Procreation not recreation".
I have two children (both teens now), have had my tubes tied for 13 years (I figured out what caused the kids), and still occasionally hear "procreation not recreation" when hubby and I :fluffle:

Guilt is a good way of control.

Then if you add laws to enforce those views....you have a messed up :fluffle: life.

Starry

:fluffle:

Well it has been enforced through the bible, through mind washing upbringing, and through laws that re-enforce the upbringing.

It was first in the bible (in areas that no longer exist in christianity) related to Lilith (Adam's first wife) who wanted a more "fun" style. God made her go away for that reason (not just divorce guys).

Missionary comes from the time where missionaries taught "savages" the "proper" way of procreation.

In the catholic school/system I was brought up (12 years), I freqently heard from teachers/priests/nuns "Procreation not recreation".
I have two children (both teens now), have had my tubes tied for 13 years (I figured out what caused the kids), and still occasionally hear "procreation not recreation" when hubby and I :fluffle:

Guilt is a good way of control.

Then if you add laws to enforce those views....you have a messed up :fluffle: life.

Starry I thought the Lilith stuff was only Jewish… I haven't heard that it was in the Bible before.

But who am I to know anything about sex?… always thought missionary would be impractical and hard.

Discrimination is when one treats another as less important, or worse, because of race/sex/whatever.


And that's basically what you're doing when you say "homosexuality is wrong".

And that's basically what you're doing when you say "homosexuality is wrong". No, I'm not. I don't agree with divorce; does that mean I would treat divorcees as second-class citizens?
(Rhetorical; the correct answer is "no".)
We all do wrong things, so I'd have to discriminate against everybody.

its just one more way for christians to punish us for our sins (and just one more was to discriminate agains the homosexuals of this world)

i think the aclu waits until some poor soul gets charged with criminal sodomy before they bother with stuff like this.

when was the last time anyone got tossed into prison for sodomy in idaho and if they DID would that really be the proper punishment??

Wouldn't that be encouraging it? lol