NationStates Jolt Archive

Would anyone care to guess what difference it had made if the US had not lost the vietnam war?

The nations around Vietnam would not have fallen to communism. Thailand was the only one not to. Millions of people would not have died because of communism. Thats the first that comes to mind.

warfilms having a happy ending?

Personally, I think China would have intervened like they did in Korea. The war would have become a full scale conflict between the US and China, and possibly North Korea, with the end result likely being a very bloody and long war. The USSR might provide equipment to China, but relations were to cool for much more. They would have waited to see the outcome, and then made their move, either an actual war or back to the cold war.

The nations around Vietnam would not have fallen to communism. Thailand was the only one not to. Millions of people would not have died because of communism. Thats the first that comes to mind.

Cambodia was boned regardless of who won the war in Vietnam.

Cambodia was boned regardless of who won the war in Vietnam.

Maybe Vietnam would have invaded them still to put in a democratic government? I mean we are talking alternate history.

Vietnam would be making car and computers just like Korea ?

Would anyone care to guess what difference it had made if the US had not lost the vietnam war?

extreme national shame over exterminating a people who were never our enemy?

sure we coulda won but the price we would have had to pay was way too high.

we would all be hippy's?

Would anyone care to guess what difference it had made if the US had not lost the vietnam war?

would you care to tell us?

would you care to tell us?

If I did, I would have to kill you all to maintain my cover. Sorry, no. Maybe tomorrow.

Would anyone care to guess what difference it had made if the US had not lost the vietnam war?
If it was won, then the Soviet Union would weaken overseas. The US would have no incentive to go to China to act as a counterbalance, and therefore, we'd keep the embassy in Taiwan, indicating a constant eminity toward China. This would keep Deng Xiaoping from rising, and China may have gotten no where. Don't laugh at this possibility, for the autocratic nature of Beijing either made sweeping changes or fought hard to preserve the status quo. In many ways, the American death in Vietnam was the birth of China.
As for the USSR, they may have fallen sooner as they'd have more reason for belligerancy. The conservative movement that swept the world in the eighties may have even happened sooner.

Personally, I think China would have intervened like they did in Korea. The war would have become a full scale conflict between the US and China, and possibly North Korea, with the end result likely being a very bloody and long war. The USSR might provide equipment to China, but relations were to cool for much more. They would have waited to see the outcome, and then made their move, either an actual war or back to the cold war.


The Chinese and Vietnamese are not friends. There is a longtime rivalry with China and Vietnam. Possible war against China would see Vietnam aligning with the US side. I have seen several scenerios predicting such a move in a war with China.
In fact the Chinese backed the Khmer Rouge forces against the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia. So I highly doubt the Chinese would have crossed the border to "assist" the Vietnamese. If they crossed the border as they did after 1975 communist victory. Which Vietnam forces beat back they would have met the same resistance.

Chaos theory suggests that any number of completely unpredictable results could have occurred. Maybe the world would have ended in 1983

If it was won, then the Soviet Union would weaken overseas. The US would have no incentive to go to China to act as a counterbalance, and therefore, we'd keep the embassy in Taiwan, indicating a constant eminity toward China. This would keep Deng Xiaoping from rising, and China may have gotten no where. Don't laugh at this possibility, for the autocratic nature of Beijing either made sweeping changes or fought hard to preserve the status quo. In many ways, the American death in Vietnam was the birth of China.
As for the USSR, they may have fallen sooner as they'd have more reason for belligerancy. The conservative movement that swept the world in the eighties may have even happened sooner.


Interesting look at it. After thinking about this scenerio this possibly would have went down as you say. World would have been a different place on many levels.

The Chinese and Vietnamese are not friends. There is a longtime rivalry with China and Vietnam. Possible war against China would see Vietnam aligning with the US side. I have seen several scenerios predicting such a move in a war with China.

In fact the Chinese backed the Khmer Rouge forces against the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia. So I highly doubt the Chinese would have crossed the border to "assist" the Vietnamese. If they crossed the border as they did after 1975 communist victory. Which Vietnam forces beat back they would have met the same resistance.

They wouldn't have done it to help the Vietnamese so much as strike at the weakened American forces. It would have been a power play for a possible strike against Taiwan and Japan, and it would divert US from North Korea who would attack. They would use it as an excuse for an attack rather than any motivation to help the Vietnamese.

They wouldn't have done it to help the Vietnamese so much as strike at the weakened American forces. It would have been a power play for a possible strike against Taiwan and Japan, and it would divert US from North Korea who would attack. They would use it as an excuse for an attack rather than any motivation to help the Vietnamese.


I follow your rational. But China would have marched through N Vietnam to hit US/Allied forces. The N Vietnam forces would have stalled them long enough for a American counter attack. At the time the F-4's and F-14's would have destroyed the Chinese Airforce. The US navy would have wiped out any Chinese forces at sea. It would have been a tactical disaster for the Chinese to attack at that time. If the N Korea would have kicked off. That would have had a response from the international community to come to its aid again. So a full blown war China would be fighting with a N Korean ally? China would have been owned outright. I highly doubt the Soviet Union at the time would have entered into a war on either side of China or N Korea. They had there own problems to contend with.

Vietnam was so irrelevant that nothing drastically different would have happened in the long run.

There would not have been over
2,000,000 million Vietnamese boat people.

No re-education camps.

I used to work with a lady from Vietnam,
she says the best thing she loves about America
is the freedom, and that in America we are all Americans,
in her nation if you are Vietnamese you are Vietnamese,
and if you are Chinese you are Chinese.

She also told me in Vietnam there is no freedom.

She also told me In Cuba and Vietnam is the same,
there is no freedom, I understand you.

Vietnamese Americans March for the Loss of Saigon

By Brigid Schulte
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, May 1, 2005; Page C06

April 30, 1975, is a date seared into history. In Vietnam yesterday, the Communist government commemorated its final victory over the Americans with red flags and a festive parade in Ho Chi Minh City; Raul Castro, the brother of Cuban President Fidel Castro, was a guest of honor.

Half a world away, thousands of Vietnamese Americans, the ones who fled the city they knew as Saigon, gathered on the east lawn in front of the U.S. Capitol to grieve the day when the last U.S. helicopters loped away from Vietnam and Communist tanks smashed through the presidential palace gates. They vowed to keep fighting -- not with guns and rockets, but with words and political pressure.



Snow Tran, left, of Norcross, Ga., and Phuong Vy, 13, of Meriden, Conn., listen to speeches at the event. (Lois Raimondo -- The Washington Post)



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Vietnam -- the country divided in half by the United Nations in 1954, the war that claimed more than 58,000 U.S. lives and those of at least 3 million Vietnamese -- still inflames.

More than 2,000 Vietnamese Americans had registered for the Vietnam Freedom March in Washington, which billed itself as the "biggest rally ever" to commemorate the day with emotional calls for democracy and an end to oppression for the relatives and friends they left behind.

"We are the voice of our people in Vietnam, because the dissidents have been muted, imprisoned and not allowed to speak their minds," said Chan Tran, an economist from California and one of the event organizers. "So this is a show of force . . . to send the message back home that their fight for freedom, dignity and human rights is backed up by the world."

Thirty years ago on April 30, the last U.S. helicopter lifted off from the roof of the U.S. Embassy in Saigon. Within hours, tanks from the Communist People's Army of Vietnam, with barefoot soldiers jogging alongside, met no resistance as they barreled through the streets of the exotic city that had been known the world over for its Western ways, silky nightclubs and bustling street life.

Over the next few years, more than 1 million people, many of whom had worked for the Americans or fought the Communists in the North, crammed into small fishing boats and launched themselves out to sea or fled through Cambodia. They and their descendants now form the backbone of the Vietnamese American diaspora.

Many of the Vietnamese Americans who came to Washington for the march also spent several days lobbying their members of Congress to support the Fall of Freedom in Viet Nam Commemoration Act.

The legislation calls for the government of Vietnam to respect human rights, requests the immediate releases of all prisoners of conscience and pushes for democracy. Organizers also lobbied to keep Vietnam on the State Department's list of Countries of Particular Concern for violating religious rights.

"Why is it that an 85-year old Vietnamese monk . . . is under house arrest because he insists on running a Buddhist church independent of government control? How come a 37-year old internet activist . . . sits in jail for translating an article titled 'What is Democracy?' " march promoter Hoang Tu Duy wrote on the group's Web site.

The rally, the march to the Capitol, the "Thank you, America" slide show, the raising of the old flag of South Vietnam -- all of it, organizers said, is so people see Vietnam through their expatriot eyes.

In 1975, Roivan Cao, 57, was a soldier for the South. On April 30, his commanders told him to lay down his arms. "The war is over," they said. "Go home." Instead, the Communists put him in jail for five years. He escaped to the United States by boat. Yesterday, he came from Boston to remember that day and to try to shape the future of Vietnam.

"It's no good over there," he said as young girls in traditional flowing ao dai dress hoisted an enormous yellow flag with three red stripes and the crowd chanted, "Freedom! Freedom!"

What were the people in North Vietnam fighting for?

What were the people in North Vietnam fighting for?

....communism?

....communism?
Why?

Why?

because It was a rebellion?

because It was a rebellion?

Did they prefer communism to Freedom and Democracy? Was it a rebellion to escape the yoke of Happiness and Individual Liberty?

China and the USA would suffer from stagnant relations and bad blood, but some of the surrounding nations wouldn't have succumbed to Communism, or at least the bastardized form of it.

What were the people in North Vietnam fighting for?
they were fighting for their country and became communists because thats who would help them in their fight.

From the Vietnamese perspective, they were fighting for their freedom, and the US was fighting against it. South Vietnam wasn't exactly a democracy.

From the Vietnamese perspective, they were fighting for their freedom, and the US was fighting against it. South Vietnam wasn't exactly a democracy.

What, do you reckon, is the perspective of the insurgents in Iraq? Are they fighting for, or against, the Freedom of their country?

wasn't the Vietnamese fighting the French at first?

could you hurry up and tell us what would of happened?

wasn't the Vietnamese fighting the French at first?

could you hurry up and tell us what would of happened?

Yes, the V were fighting the F at first, so?

What is the rush? It is still happening! I ain't no **** oracle!

Yes, the V were fighting the F at first, so?

What is the rush? It is still happening! I ain't no **** oracle!

if Vietnam was won would the French still control it?

or would another rebellion be inevitable?

What, do you reckon, is the perspective of the insurgents in Iraq? Are they fighting for, or against, the Freedom of their country?

Freedom from American influence, although not personal freedom in the way we would view it.

if Vietnam was won would the French still control it?

or would another rebellion be inevitable?

If Vietnam had been won by the French...it would be much like other French colonies today.

I think no rebellion is inevitable, never. Bloodshed is always evitable.

I think no rebellion is inevitable, never. Bloodshed is always evitable.

the French would never give up the colonies without a fight bloodshed would have to happen (it’s interesting to see that Vietnam isn’t considered a French defeat)

the French would never give up the colonies without a fight bloodshed would have to happen (it’s interesting to see that Vietnam isn’t considered a French defeat)

By who? I've heard there are Americans who don't consider Vietnam a US defeat either...

the French would never give up the colonies without a fight bloodshed would have to happen (it’s interesting to see that Vietnam isn’t considered a French defeat)

vietnam is of course a french defeat as well. the us defeat is more mainstream knowledge though. maybe because of that movie...there was a film about the us-vietnam war, right?

well we would have if we just nuked them

vietnam is of course a french defeat as well. the us defeat is more mainstream knowledge though. maybe because of that movie...there was a film about the us-vietnam war, right?

duh havent u ever seen rambo?

duh havent u ever seen rambo?

yes of course that must've been it. silly me :headbang:

Did they prefer communism to Freedom and Democracy? Was it a rebellion to escape the yoke of Happiness and Individual Liberty?

I guess they didn't know better. To them Communism was supposed to bring prosperity and stability. Heh.

------

Insurgence in Iraq are fighting a Jihad, or a Holy War. Or so they believe. They want to kick US out and return back to a more fundie muslim state. Where they can all worship Allah, put women in Burqa's etc etc. Since US is the 'Great Syatan'

By who? I've heard there are Americans who don't consider Vietnam a US defeat either...

the same ones believe in santa and creationism. can't be many, really.

Plat00n and Apocalypse Now would have sucked big time!

Freedom from American influence, although not personal freedom in the way we would view it.

A crazy idea! Why would anyone want to be free from American influence? IMO, American influence = Great food, Great money, Great happiness. What else is important?

A crazy idea! Why would anyone want to be free from American influence? IMO, American influence = Great food, Great money, Great happiness. What else is important?

independence, national pride, protection of Vietnamese culture, hated of a natural resource rapist called America, patriotism and...um...gambling communism will win the cold war?

independence, national pride, protection of Vietnamese culture, hated of a natural resource rapist called America, patriotism and...um...gambling communism will win the cold war?

"gambling communism"?????????????? ...ibegyourpardon??????

"gambling communism"?????????????? ...ibegyourpardon??????

You know, like in those casinos where the house distributes all winnings evenly among everyone who gambles?

You know, like in those casinos where the house distributes all winnings evenly among everyone who gambles?
:D

"gambling communism"?????????????? ...ibegyourpardon??????

um....there were 2 rival sides in the cold war the (mostly) democratic western allies (called the 1st world), the (mostly) communist eastern block (called the 2nd) now if communism had prevailed (though war or peace) which side would you of rather been on? Which brings in the 3rd world who were the middle nations (mostly poor) Vietnam (well the northern rebels anyway) was in this and fought it would be a good idea to support communism

um....there were 2 rival sides in the cold war the (mostly) democratic western allies (called the 1st world), the (mostly) communist eastern block (called the 2nd) now if communism had prevailed (though war or peace) which side would you of rather been on? Which brings in the 3rd world who were the middle nations (mostly poor) Vietnam (well the northern rebels anyway) was in this and fought it would be a good idea to support communism

I'd rather have been on the prevailing side, whichever it be. Looking back, everyone prefers the prevailing side. Choosing the prevailing side before is the tricky part. Who knows how the world'd be today had communism prevailed? Seen from USSR, how did they see the future if communism had failed, or prevailed???? Also, communism would've softened when dominant, much like capitalism would, and is, doing today.

I'm pretty sure the Vietnamese did not choose Communism by analysing all alternatives and gambling on a winner. The Communists led them to victory over the French and set up a Commie government. The US moved in and set up a puppet dictatorship in the south, and the two sides didn't really get along.