NationStates Jolt Archive


ATTN: Zincite RE: Your signature

Cogitation
26-08-2005, 22:46
[from signature]

i^1 = i. i^2 = -1. i^3 = -i. i^4 = 1. i^5 = i.
So the fifth root of i is itself. Therefore the tenth root of -1 is i - as are the 18th, 26th, and so on roots. Do all negative numbers have these particular even roots? Not exactly, no.

All negative real numbers will have {2nd, 10th, 18th, 26th, and so on roots} with the same angle on the complex plane; more specifically, they'll all be i times a positive real number. However, they will not all have the same magnitude.

This is going to get tricky without actually drawing this, but let me try, anyway.

Take some paper and pencil and draw a horizontal and vertical axis. The horixontal axis is your real axis, with positive reals pointing to the right. The vertical axis is your imaginary axis, with positive multiples of i pointing up. This is the "complex plane" and any complex number may be expressed as "x + y * i" where x and y are real numbers. You can plot any complex number on the complex plane.

Now, what you have is a cartesian plane, but you can treat it with a polar coordinate system, instead, and this has interesting properties. For example, if you want to multiply two complex numbers, there are two ways you can do it.

First, you can do a straightforward binomial multipllication:
(a + b * i) * (c + d * i) = (e + f * i)
This will turn out to be:
e = a * c - b * d
f = a * d + b * c

Second, you can convert the cartesian coordinates into polar coordinates. The "angle" is the counterclockwise angle starting from the positive real axis. So, i has an angle of 90 degrees, -1 has an angle of 180 degrees, and -i has an angle of 270 degrees. The "magnitude" is just sqrt(a^2 + b^2).

Without proof, I assert that to multiply two complex numbers together, you just add the angles and multiply the magnitudes.

For example, calculate (1 + i) * (1 + i). Both numbers have a magnitude of sqrt(2) and an angle of 45 degrees. So, add the angles (you get 90 degrees) and multiply the magnitudes (you get 2). The answer is 2*i.

Double-check this against straight binomial multiplication:
(1 + i) * (1 + i) = 1 + i + i - 1 = 2 * i
You get the same answer.

So, any (positive real times i) raised to the 2nd, 10th, 18th, and so on powers will bring you onto the negative real axis. So will the 6th, 14th, 22nd, and so on powers. So, really, the progression is 2, 6, 10, 14, 18, 22, and so on.

One more fun fact: Whatever the power is, there are that many roots and they are scattered symetrically around the origin of the complex plane. For example, there are four different numbers that are the 4th root of -1. They are
+ sqrt(1/2) + sqrt(1/2) * i
+ sqrt(1/2) - sqrt(1/2) * i
- sqrt(1/2) + sqrt(1/2) * i
- sqrt(1/2) - sqrt(1/2) * i

This has been a crash course in complex arithmetic. :)

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
Founder and Delegate of The Realm of Ambrosia
Sinuhue
26-08-2005, 23:03
*head explodes*
Colodia
26-08-2005, 23:07
I can't even do the quadratic formula and suddenly General shoots THIS at me.
Sinuhue
26-08-2005, 23:09
Cog is trying to prove that despite the fact he is a dance revolution master, he is more than just a pretty face....

...we already knew that Cog...now you're just confusing the heck out of us!
Vetalia
26-08-2005, 23:10
Polar coordinates are absolutely beautiful. Brings a tear to my eye, I must say.

Generally, however, I find the prime numbers to be more interesting, especially in their relation to factorials. The relations between the fundamental numbers and factorials are also quite interesting. Here's something I discovered a few weeks ago:

lim x→∞ X/(xth root of x!)= e
I haven't yet tried it with negative factorials or complex numbers.

I'm also discovering that there is convergence between the primes and the sums of the xth root of the prime divided by x factorial.
Vetalia
26-08-2005, 23:11
I can't even do the quadratic formula and suddenly General shoots THIS at me.

I'd laugh evilly, but I understand Cog completely.

Here's something extremely frightening:
http://www.mathnerds.com/mathnerds/images/cubic.jpg

Think the quadratic is bad? Take a look at the cubic...
Jordaxia
26-08-2005, 23:11
Cog, I'm afraid you're wrong there.

...

...

... :D (seriously, I wouldn't even know to begin there.)


But this is awesome. Earlier, I was thinking "I haven't had my fix of cog-gold for a while now... gettin' needy" and he posts up this! It's AMBROSIA, I tells ya!
Colodia
26-08-2005, 23:13
I'd laugh evilly, but I understand Cog completely.

Here's something extremely frightening:
http://www.mathnerds.com/mathnerds/images/cubic.jpg

Think the quadratic is bad? Take a look at the cubic...
I think it just demanded for me to hand over my wallet...:eek:
Cannot think of a name
26-08-2005, 23:13
My brain hurts.
Vetalia
26-08-2005, 23:15
I think it just demanded for me to hand over my wallet...:eek:

No, that was the zeta function....you probably don't want to be exposed to that.
Lord-General Drache
26-08-2005, 23:16
I vaguely recall this from school. Why did you dredge this up? WHY! I was happy in my non-math thinking mode. You're..you're evil, Cog.
Vaitupu
26-08-2005, 23:17
uh...*smiles and nods*
ARF-COM and IBTL
26-08-2005, 23:22
No kidding, I passed all my math classes in high school and College but DADGUM! I can't make out anything after like the 6th line...
The South Islands
26-08-2005, 23:25
Too...Much...LEARNING!!!!
Cogitation
27-08-2005, 19:34
But this is awesome. Earlier, I was thinking "I haven't had my fix of cog-gold for a while now... gettin' needy" and he posts up this! It's AMBROSIA, I tells ya!No, that's Ambrosia (http://www.ambrosiasw.com). This is just arithmetic. :D

No kidding, I passed all my math classes in high school and College but DADGUM! I can't make out anything after like the 6th line...Sorry, I'd lead you through it in more detail, but I'd have to get a drawing posted here, somehow.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
Founder and Delegate of The Realm of Ambrosia
Pure Metal
27-08-2005, 19:37
:eek: maths!!


*runs away screaming*
Zincite
31-08-2005, 22:38
but I'd have to get a drawing posted here, somehow.


Draw it, scan it, upload the file to photobucket or imageshack, and then link.

... that was awesome! I always wondered about what a complex number graph would look like. The magnitude and angle stuff was fascinating too, amazing how something so complex (no pun intended) still turns back to the Pythagorean theorem. The only thing I don't understand is polar coordinates, I've never heard of those before. I think there was something in the PreCalc description about them so I guess I'll be learning them this year but I didn't encounter them in algebra.
Cogitation
31-08-2005, 23:19
The only thing I don't understand is polar coordinates, I've never heard of those before.Cartesian coordinates work by drawing perpendicular line segments from the x and y axes and using numbers to describe the lengths of those line segments. It's kinda like saying "The target is 1.7 miles east and 1 mile north".

Polar coordinates work by drawing one line from the origin to your target, using a number to describe the length of that line, and using another number to describe the direction of that line. It's kinda like saying "The target is 2 miles away in a direction 30 degrees north of east".

The distance is always the distance from the origin. The angle is typically the counter-clockwise angle from the positive-x axis. So, pointing right is an angle of zero degrees, up is 90 degrees, left is 180 degrees, and down is 270 degrees.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
Founder and Delegate of The Realm of Ambrosia
Peechland
31-08-2005, 23:23
good grief I wish Cog wouldnt do that.....he's so sexy when he does. And Mods cant be sexy!!!!

*thinks about baseball,contemplates a cold shower*
Keruvalia
31-08-2005, 23:23
I've said it once, I'll say it again ...

http://www.unlc.biz/face.jpg
Zincite
31-08-2005, 23:23
Cool... after sines and cosines on the unit circle, that's not too hard to expand.
Smokey the NSer
31-08-2005, 23:26
This thread has earned the Smokey Stamp of Approval for being very unlikely to start a forum fire.

http://img9.exs.cx/img9/753/image75.th.gif (http://img9.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img9&image=image75.gif)


And as always...

http://img209.exs.cx/img209/2807/pd834lg5kv.jpg

Remember kids, only you can prevent forum fires and perform complex arithmetic functions at the same time.
The Downmarching Void
31-08-2005, 23:31
Math is such an intriguing and useful language. I wish I had the time and patience to understand at the levels where it actually gets interesting and beautiful (ie: the level Cog and other have demonstrated in this thread)

I'm too passionate about my art and music to devote the time I'd have to inorder to undrstand what the heck its all about. To each their own. Much respect to the mAth heads of the world.
Secluded Islands
31-08-2005, 23:40
*shudders*
i have a hard time adding my score while playing darts...