NationStates Jolt Archive

Seriously, why?

It can't be because of employment shortages. If an immigrant gets your job, it shouldn't be any different than if an American-born citizen did. In either case, you just need to work harder, silly. The solution here is to legalize all immigration, and enforce the income taxes and minimum wage laws.

It can't be to keep those foreign terrorists out, can it? Of course! If we had tighter border security we would have kept Jose Padilla, Ted Kaczynski, and Timothy McVeigh from causing any mayhem.

Who cares who comes in? Just open the borders! What difference does it make if someone is born in a different country rather than here?

Well the thing is, immigrant workers are willing to work for a lot less than non-immigrants. So employers hire immigrant workers to save a bit of money.

Which is the main argument against illegal immigration.

I don't mind it, and this is Southern California!

I'd don a flame-proof suit at this juncture if I were you.

Because an imaginary line on the ground is as good a reason as any to assert your position as better than your fellow man.

The solution here is to legalize all immigration, and enforce the income taxes and minimum wage laws.

I'd suggest legalizing all immigration, lowering income taxes to a bare minimum (zero percent would be lovely) and scrapping the minimum wage.

I'm so happy some people agree with me! :)

Colodia, you are right, naughty corporations like Walmart employ them at always low wages. But only because the government won't step in! This is how it should be: if you work in America, you must pay income taxes! That should be the responsibility of the employer, who must also pay everyone he or she employs minimum wage. Make the feds enforce these standards, and immigration can be easy and free.

I'd suggest legalizing all immigration, lowering income taxes to a bare minimum (zero percent would be lovely) and scrapping the minimum wage.

Well, that might work too. Just as long as everything's equal.

Foreigners are a threat to American culture and way-of-life. The success of American society lay in its homogenous unity in building it up since establishment. Just look at Brazil to see what a country polarized by adverse demographic bodies is like.

Also an influx of immigrants will bring wages steadily down for everyone affected, it's not a question of having to "work harder." Americans have to work for less or not work at all. Most take the latter choice and as such quite a few particular roles have become almost completely dominated by foreigners who take their measly wages and send it right back to Mexico or whatever third-world hole they came from.

1. Our infrastructure can only grow by so much.
2. Illegal immigrants are cheating money from the government.
3. We want the money to stay in the USA, however selfish that is, not get sent to the Central American country we have never heard of.
4. Many immigrants take advantage of systems such as welfare or social security even though they didn't ever put any money into the systems.

Foreigners are a threat to American culture and way-of-life. The success of American society lay in its homogenous unity in building it up since establishment. Just look at Brazil to see what a country polarized by adverse demographic bodies is like.
Haven't studied American history too well have ya?

Foreigners are a threat to American culture and way-of-life. The success of American society lay in its homogenous unity in building it up since establishment. Just look at Brazil to see what a country polarized by adverse demographic bodies is like.

Homogenous? Sorry, that's an awful big word. Does that mean that the United States was built by people of all different ethnicities? Because it was. Chinese immigrants built the transcontinental railroad, and irish immigrants fought in the civil war. And of course africans have been here for just about as long as the english.

Foreigners are a threat to American culture and way-of-life.
So when are you foreigners going to leave it back to the Native Americans? ;)

Foreigners are a threat to American culture and way-of-life. The success of American society lay in its homogenous unity in building it up since establishment. Just look at Brazil to see what a country polarized by adverse demographic bodies is like.

Also an influx of immigrants will bring wages steadily down for everyone affected, it's not a question of having to "work harder." Americans have to work for less or not work at all. Most take the latter choice and as such quite a few particular roles have become almost completely dominated by foreigners who take their measly wages and send it right back to Mexico or whatever third-world hole they came from.

Allow me to translate for all you who don't speak 'hate'...
Because an imaginary line on the ground is as good a reason as any to assert your position as better than your fellow man.

So when are you foreigners going to leave it back to the Native Americans? ;)
I hate it when people say we should give them back their land. However harsh it sounds, they lost, we won. Same thing with the british, it was theirs, but we got it.

So when are you foreigners going to leave it back to the Native Americans? ;)
Do you REALLY want some of it back? I mean, honestly, who in their right mind would want Washington DC or New York and have to deal with the problems? ;)

I hate it when people say we should give them back their land. However harsh it sounds, they lost, we won. Same thing with the british, it was theirs, but we got it.

So in fact if all of these cultures come in and trash yours it's all good because yours was shit anyway.

So in fact if all of these cultures come in and trash yours it's all good because yours was shit anyway.
Is English your native tongue? That sentence didnt make all that much sense.

1. Our infrastructure can only grow by so much.
2. Illegal immigrants are cheating money from the government.
3. We want the money to stay in the USA, however selfish that is, not get sent to the Central American country we have never heard of.
4. Many immigrants take advantage of systems such as welfare or social security even though they didn't ever put any money into the systems.White washed hate.

Natural Americans are cheating money from the government at the same rate or worse, Big corporations send waaaay more money out of the country than farm workers and many Americans take the same advantages of our social systems without contributing also.

Do you REALLY want some of it back? I mean, honestly, who in their right mind would want Washington DC or New York and have to deal with the problems? ;)
I'm not Native American. I'm not even any type of American.

Seriously, why?

It can't be because of employment shortages. If an immigrant gets your job, it shouldn't be any different than if an American-born citizen did. In either case, you just need to work harder, silly. The solution here is to legalize all immigration, and enforce the income taxes and minimum wage laws.

It can't be to keep those foreign terrorists out, can it? Of course! If we had tighter border security we would have kept Jose Padilla, Ted Kaczynski, and Timothy McVeigh from causing any mayhem.

Who cares who comes in? Just open the borders! What difference does it make if someone is born in a different country rather than here?

The biggest issue with employment is outsourcing of jobs and the fact that American's can't compete with a country with an employee who recieves lower minimum wage.

One of the biggest issues is the bad issues that come with the lack of boarder security that allows many illegals to cross without being caught. I LIVE along the boarder. Our officials are the most corrupt because of all the drug trafficing, gang activity is higher here with organized gangs from south American to Mexican gangs being able to cross easily and pay off officials.

Drugs crossings only double in amount because of the lame ass "war on drugs" that I can tell you is a war that is fought so piss poorly considering we have no real freaking patrols across the boarder.

The other biggest reason is because the more we allow illegal, the less we do to hold Mexico accountable for the situations that attribute to such bad conditions that people risk life and death to cross to this country. Mexico isn't Canada folks. Its the biggest ****ing joke of a country on this continent. Illegals are people that need to stay in Mexico and fix their ****ing corrupt cess pool of a country. Mexico needs to have all those illegals that want to cross, and have crossed to shoot up their government. Its just pathetic what they do with their oil reserves that goes to the few rich and powerful elite.

When we crack down on the boarder and monitor illegal immigration crossing, this will force change on Mexico. Because they will know people are tired of their crap that goes on in the boarder regions, AND those who have to live in Mexico will have to come to a crossing point in their lives. Live in their ****ed up life, or fight for a better country.

Is English your native tongue? That sentence didnt make all that much sense.

Maybe you aren't listening then.

If virtue of strength is good enough to justify near-eradication of Native Americans then the strength of other cultures taking over yours is to be welcomed, not held off.

White washed hate.

Natural Americans are cheating money from the government at the same rate or worse, Big corporations send waaaay more money out of the country than farm workers and many Americans take the same advantages of our social systems without contributing also.
Us African-Americans prefer not to be told we are using white-washed hate (although I admit im pretty white for a black guy) Anyway, in my ideal society there wouldnt be much in the way of welfare or social security for them to take advantage of. I admit a lot of people that have lived all their lives here might be cheating money, but the people that come in in their 50's, get citizenship, and start collecting social security are very noticeably doing something that shouldnt be allowed.

The biggest issue with employment is outsourcing of jobs and the fact that American's can't compete with a country with an employee who recieves lower minimum wage.

One of the biggest issues is the bad issues that come with the lack of boarder security that allows many illegals to cross without being caught. I LIVE along the boarder. Our officials are the most corrupt because of all the drug trafficing, gang activity is higher here with organized gangs from south American to Mexican gangs being able to cross easily and pay off officials.

Drugs crossings only double in amount because of the lame ass "war on drugs" that I can tell you is a war that is fought so piss poorly considering we have no real freaking patrols across the boarder.

The other biggest reason is because the more we allow illegal, the less we do to hold Mexico accountable for the situations that attribute to such bad conditions that people risk life and death to cross to this country. Mexico isn't Canada folks. Its the biggest ****ing joke of a country on this continent. Illegals are people that need to stay in Mexico and fix their ****ing corrupt cess pool of a country. Mexico needs to have all those illegals that want to cross, and have crossed to shoot up their government. Its just pathetic what they do with their oil reserves that goes to the few rich and powerful elite.

When we crack down on the boarder and monitor illegal immigration crossing, this will force change on Mexico. Because they will know people are tired of their crap that goes on in the boarder regions, AND those who have to live in Mexico will have to come to a crossing point in their lives. Live in their ****ed up life, or fight for a better country.

Hmm ... well, ousourcing does move a lot of jobs away from the US, but the difference is that white-collar jobs are outsourced and immigrants don't usually take them. I never said I was for outsourcing (or against it), just immigration.

And, Mexican immigrants are people too. ;)

Allow me to translate for all you who don't speak 'hate'...
Because an imaginary line on the ground is as good a reason as any to assert your position as better than your fellow man.
"Hate?" The border is a serious matter. This "imaginary line" is what happened to separate a third-world cesspit from a first-world power. If things are so wonderful around those figments of imaginations, why don't you catch a little magic rainbow across the border to free yourself from all the "hate?"

Maybe you aren't listening then.

If virtue of strength is good enough to justify near-eradication of Native Americans then the strength of other cultures taking over yours is to be welcomed, not held off.
Okay, I understoof you this time. I am just saying that this north american region is under the control of the USA government because we won it in a war. Now if these foreign cultures declared war, it wouldn't be welcomed by any means, but if they managed to overthrow the government and subdue the majority of the rebellions, they would be able to do what they want.

I’m for strong boarder security to keep out criminals (a lot of Mexican immigrants commit crime and a lot of them are wanted by Mexican law enforcement as well) and those with major contagious diseases,. Everyone else should be able to come in, though.

Haven't studied American history too well have ya?
I do doubt many illegals care about the American Republic principles. Most of them just want to work. Then send money back to their homeland for their familes.

The problem with illegals are that THEY are supposed to be the ones fighting to reform their country. If they don't do it, WHO THE **** WILL?

Hmm... maybe America should invade Mexico and take all of it this time around?

Us African-Americans prefer not to be told we are using white-washed hate (although I admit im pretty white for a black guy) Anyway, in my ideal society there wouldnt be much in the way of welfare or social security for them to take advantage of. I admit a lot of people that have lived all their lives here might be cheating money, but the people that come in in their 50's, get citizenship, and start collecting social security are very noticeably doing something that shouldnt be allowed.History lesson for you - White wash is a cheap paint used to try to make things look better...the term has no racial overtones in this application.

Hmm ... well, ousourcing does move a lot of jobs away from the US, but the difference is that white-collar jobs are outsourced and immigrants don't usually take them. I never said I was for outsourcing (or against it), just immigration.

And, Mexican immigrants are people too. ;)

I'm sorry, I didn't clarify now that I read it. (My first version did have a difference though)

The problem with employment has little to do with the lack of boarder security and illegal immigration.

The real problem was what crosses. Drugs, violence relating to organized gangs, the effective ignoring of how bad Mexico is BONING ITS OWN PEOPLE.

People, the problem isn't the US nor the people who want to secure our boarder. ITS GODDAMNED MEXICO. If Mexico was anywhere NEARLY as great as the US or Canada, we wouldn't even be HAVING this discussion.

For all those of you bleeding heart fools that are trying to defend illegal immigrants, I should tell you I'm hispanic. I KNOW what would really help illegal immigrants who risk THEIR LIVES TO CROSS.

Holding Mexico responsible for its problems. The US has done NOTHING to hurt illegals. Mexico has done EVERYTHING to put them in their situation.

Think about it for a damned second.

"Hate?" The border is a serious matter. This "imaginary line" is what happened to separate a third-world cesspit from a first-world power. If things are so wonderful around those figments of imaginations, why don't you catch a little magic rainbow across the border to free yourself from all the "hate?"
It's an imaginary line kid... that's all. Arbitarily drawn and only important to those that believe in it. Using words like "cesspit" only proves my point....An imaginary line on the ground is as good a reason as any to assert your position as better than your fellow man

History lesson for you - White wash is a cheap paint used to try to make things look better...the term has no racial overtones in this application.
I hope im not seeming arrogant, its just the last time i heard someone use the term whitewash it was in regard to an extremely white neighborhood. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

It's an imaginary line kid... that's all. Arbitarily drawn and only important to those that believe in it. Using words like "cesspit" only proves my point....An imaginary line on the ground is as good a reason as any to assert your position as better than your fellow man

Dude, shut up already. You are adding nothing to this topic but idealistic bull that has no sense of reality ingrained in it. Do you even live anywhere NEAR the damned boarder to realize what problems we have?

You know what. Don't even answer it. Just remember, nobody is addressing your "points" for a reason.

I hope im not seeming arrogant, its just the last time i heard someone use the term whitewash it was in regard to an extremely white neighborhood. Sorry for the misunderstanding.No worries... easy mistake to make...I probably should have used another adjective...Immigration is usually associated with racial issues.

There is no problem with legal immigration. The problem is illegal immigration. Build a ten foot cement fence from SanDiego to Brownsville I say. Create a guest worker program and make everyone register that way we know who is in this country. I have no problem with Mexican peasants coming to this country for work that obviously alot of Americans do not want to do. I just want them here legally. Thats a simple thing to ask isnt it?

Hmm ... well, ousourcing does move a lot of jobs away from the US, but the difference is that white-collar jobs are outsourced and immigrants don't usually take them. I never said I was for outsourcing (or against it), just immigration.

And, Mexican immigrants are people too. ;)

Yes mexican immigrants are people too.. pitty most are illegal immigrants which means they have litttle or no respect for rule of law.

because we don't need people anymore

we allowed people to come here because we needed them as much as on principle and we no longer need immigrants. migrant laborers perhaps, but not immigrants

Immigrants come to a country and they work in exchange for money. It is a trade. We get their labor; they get our money. After they have done their work, they owe us nothing. They can do what they want with their money, even send it home or anywhere else.

I have heard some communists claim that working for a company is not a trade and that the company exploits its workers. You (anyone opposed to immigration) seem to be suggesting that the workers are exploiting the company. That is ridiculous.

It is possible for immigrants to exploit things like welfare and other government benefits, but that is just another reason to do away with nanny-statism.

Dude, shut up already. You are adding nothing to this topic but idealistic bull that has no sense of reality ingrained in it. Do you even live anywhere NEAR the damned boarder to realize what problems we have?

You know what. Don't even answer it. Just remember, nobody is addressing your "points" for a reason.I'm a fifth generation native Californian with five children to support and have probably been paying taxes longer than you have been wiping your own ass. I live and believe my "idealistic bull" and still own a home and do right by my family.

You keep making excuses to justify your elitist, racist attitudes and I'll keep on trying to change the system, OK skippy?

also most immigrants also traffic drugs to make extra money and alot of street gangs(on the same level with the mob) have people come across the border...with drugs,guns and other things....plus it is for there own safety...alot of people die trying to get across the boarder and think about it if it is easy for mexicans to get across what about terrorists?

You keep making excuses to justify your elitist, racist attitudes and I'll keep on trying to change the system, OK skippy?

I frankly don't even care if you got three eyes with titties on your head. I asked you to be quiet, not to give me a profile. And here is why-

And I am saying shut up for a reason. Now let me school you in the big problems again because you obviously are to old and to new to the internet that you can't read what was mentioned earlier that is the cause to the biggest problems with the boarder security issue.

1. I am hispanic. The same ethnicity that many illegals are. The fact is. that you are DEFINITLY more prejudice a person than those whom you unjustly claim are racist. I can't be racist against my own ethnicity you arrogant fool. That is like saying Bill Clinton hated the white man. Who the HELL brought someone like you up?

One of the biggest reasons that I, and others want boarder security is because people are risking their LIVES crossing and the lack of security is causing other American citizens and Mexicans to be less secure due to drug cartels fighting for territory. Illegals are not just risking their lives in the desert, but with coyotes (persons claiming to help them cross out for money), gangs, and other issues such as desert terrain. Second, and I'll get to this one later. Mexico.

2. I am also not an elitist. Elitism is what pisses me off about the whole situation. Not "hur hur, we are in the US, and you are screwed" is what drives my fustration with the situation. Its elistist, corrupt, and selfish individuals at the TOP of Mexico's government that has forced their countrymen to risk their lives to cross the boarder. I'm pretty damned certain you don't know what the **** is actually going on. Thus, another reason I'm telling you to shut up. YOU DON'T KNOW ****.

3. You AREN'T going to change the system. Because you don't even know what the hell NEEDS to change. The other damned reason why you need to keep your misguided opinions to yourself regarding this issue. Its about time for you to shut up and listen for a second.

You blame people that recognize there is a problem and are using their Constitutionally protected liberties to either air their grievences or even those who are willing to camp out and bring media attention to the boarder which is the right to peacefully assemble. But THEY are not the cause of this problem, nor are they people that are wrong in their opinions. I'm an informed hispanic American citizen that SYMPATHIZES with the economic refugees you only think of as people who should clean your damned house. Americans such as yourself are completely ignorant to the fact that (And read carefully) MEXICO IS THE PROBLEM. Untill that government changes drastically, then this problem is ONLY going to get worse. You aren't changing ****, don't know HOW to change ****, and won't EVER change ****, and THAT is a fact. I KNOW how to change **** if needed. You on the other hand are dumb enough to complain about the effect of the cause. How the HELL do you think you are going to stop the water when you aren't even concerned with the ****ing leak?

Let me tell you something, you self claimed eldery bigot. I know America, but I ALSO know Mexico. I live 30-40 minutes from it. Trading done here is done in the millions of dollars PER DAY with nationals and illegals and I do business with them personally in BOTH of my damned jobs because I'm also bilingual. Believe it or not, not all illegals aren't all brown. They are of different skin colors, so it is VERY difficult for you to legitimately claim anyone who has issue with illegal immigrants as racist, because they come in ALL colors. That is right. There are WHITE MEXICANS ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS TOO.

And if you somehow got off your idealistic mumbo jumbo, listened to the problem instead of calling everybody who has more brain cells than you a racist person, and somehow by the act of god or by miracle of you actually getting off your ass and ACTUALLY FIXED THE SYSTEM which by all accounts is Mexico itself, the result would be this:

Americans AND Mexicans would not be having a boarder issue or an illegal immigration issue. Why? Because Mexico would be as Canada and the US. You wouldn't see illegals needing to cross the boarder for a better life when they have it at their own communities. You'd be seeing seemless trading with only the few hiccups of language barriers between those few not well versed in the other's language.

The only issue the US and our citizens need to fix is the drug war. Prohibition does NOT work. Hell, it only creates people willing to break the law to earn a lot of money quick and willing to cause harm to others and communities to do it.

Now, for the love of all that is decent, zip it.

Well the thing is, immigrant workers are willing to work for a lot less than non-immigrants. So employers hire immigrant workers to save a bit of money.

Which is the main argument against illegal immigration.

I don't mind it, and this is Southern California!
Unless you use wage limits and require illegal immigrants to be paid the same wages as citizens....

Enforcing income taxes is the big kicker here. The biggest problem with the immigration is that the undocumenteds use our schools and hospitals and aren't contributing financially to the piece of the pie they take out.

I've worked with a lot of mexicans in entry-level minimum wage jobs, and they're damn hard workers. They want a better life, and they really take advantage of it, and do the best they can. I can really respect that!

The Mexican president was right when he said that the mexicans were doing the jobs the black people were too lazy to do. I'm seriously not kidding about this!

Call me racist, but I'm just calling it like I see it, and I've had more than a few crappy low end jobs.

I frankly don't even care if you got three eyes with titties on your head. I asked you to be quiet, not to give me a profile. And here is why-

And I am saying shut up for a reason. Now let me school you in the big problems again because you obviously are to old and to new to the internet that you can't read what was mentioned earlier that is the cause to the biggest problems with the boarder security issue.

1. I am hispanic. The same ethnicity that many illegals are. The fact is. that you are DEFINITLY more prejudice a person than those whom you unjustly claim are racist. I can't be racist against my own ethnicity you arrogant fool. That is like saying Bill Clinton hated the white man. Who the HELL brought someone like you up?

One of the biggest reasons that I, and others want boarder security is because people are risking their LIVES crossing and the lack of security is causing other American citizens and Mexicans to be less secure due to drug cartels fighting for territory. Illegals are not just risking their lives in the desert, but with coyotes (persons claiming to help them cross out for money), gangs, and other issues such as desert terrain. Second, and I'll get to this one later. Mexico.

2. I am also not an elitist. Elitism is what pisses me off about the whole situation. Not "hur hur, we are in the US, and you are screwed" is what drives my fustration with the situation. Its elistist, corrupt, and selfish individuals at the TOP of Mexico's government that has forced their countrymen to risk their lives to cross the boarder. I'm pretty damned certain you don't know what the **** is actually going on. Thus, another reason I'm telling you to shut up. YOU DON'T KNOW ****.

3. You AREN'T going to change the system. Because you don't even know what the hell NEEDS to change. The other damned reason why you need to keep your misguided opinions to yourself regarding this issue. Its about time for you to shut up and listen for a second.

You blame people that recognize there is a problem and are using their Constitutionally protected liberties to either air their grievences or even those who are willing to camp out and bring media attention to the boarder which is the right to peacefully assemble. But THEY are not the cause of this problem, nor are they people that are wrong in their opinions. I'm an informed hispanic American citizen that SYMPATHIZES with the economic refugees you only think of as people who should clean your damned house. Americans such as yourself are completely ignorant to the fact that (And read carefully) MEXICO IS THE PROBLEM. Untill that government changes drastically, then this problem is ONLY going to get worse. You aren't changing ****, don't know HOW to change ****, and won't EVER change ****, and THAT is a fact. I KNOW how to change **** if needed. You on the other hand are dumb enough to complain about the effect of the cause. How the HELL do you think you are going to stop the water when you aren't even concerned with the ****ing leak?

Let me tell you something, you self claimed eldery bigot. I know America, but I ALSO know Mexico. I live 30-40 minutes from it. Trading done here is done in the millions of dollars PER DAY with nationals and illegals and I do business with them personally in BOTH of my damned jobs because I'm also bilingual. Believe it or not, not all illegals aren't all brown. They are of different skin colors, so it is VERY difficult for you to legitimately claim anyone who has issue with illegal immigrants as racist, because they come in ALL colors. That is right. There are WHITE MEXICANS ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS TOO.

And if you somehow got off your idealistic mumbo jumbo, listened to the problem instead of calling everybody who has more brain cells than you a racist person, and somehow by the act of god or by miracle of you actually getting off your ass and ACTUALLY FIXED THE SYSTEM which by all accounts is Mexico itself, the result would be this:

Americans AND Mexicans would not be having a boarder issue or an illegal immigration issue. Why? Because Mexico would be as Canada and the US. You wouldn't see illegals needing to cross the boarder for a better life when they have it at their own communities. You'd be seeing seemless trading with only the few hiccups of language barriers between those few not well versed in the other's language.

The only issue the US and our citizens need to fix is the drug war. Prohibition does NOT work. Hell, it only creates people willing to break the law to earn a lot of money quick and willing to cause harm to others and communities to do it.

Now, for the love of all that is decent, zip it.Feel better now that you've had your hissy fit?

You shout support for those using their "constitutionall protected civil Liberties" and in the same breath have the nerve to tell me to shut up because you don't like the position I take? So your hispanic? Big fuckin' deal, I can check that box on the survey too, along with a bunch of others. Doesn't make me a Mexican and it doesn't make you one. We're both Americans. Mexico is part of the problem, it's rife with corruption. The US policies on immigration are just as big a part of the problem. My problem and point, if you'd climb down off your soapbox long enough to hear it, is that Legal Immigration from Mexico is an immpossibility for most of the impoverished who simply want a chance at a better life. I can't morally reconcile denying someone such just because they're born on the wrong side of an immaginary line. Whine about crime and drugs, whatever...just a smokescreen in my eyes, we got enough domestic varieties of both that I don't see a tough stance on immigration being a solution to either.
Elitist and racist?, yeah, I call it as I see it. If your solution to the problem is 'screw them, we gotta worry about us first', then yeah it fits.
Borders are immaginary lines drawn for political purposes. If your empathy for your fellow man stops at one or you place political agenda above the human condition, well we're never gonna see eye to eye....


but you'll never get me to shut the hell up.

How many more people can we fit in here. Everybody's breeding and forming unGodly hybrids, and the Europeans, the 1st ones here aside from Native Americans, are being wiped out. Call me a racist, but I am more comfortable around people who look like me. Down here in Southern California white European descended people are the smallest minority of them all. The population is 70% Hispanic. Please, people, if you're going to illegally come into this country, steal our jobs and benefits, at least learn the language. It is really annoying, not knowing how to speak Spanish. For all you know, people could be standing right next to you (AKA me) plotting to kill you, and you couldn't tell.

Of course, some of my friends are at least part-Mexican, but the non-hybrid one's the I know are 90% stupid assholes.

Why is it that every country sends their trash over here? Why couldn't it be 45% English, 20% African-American, 10% German, 10% Dutch, and 15% everything else like in the 1800s?

The population is 70% Hispanic. Please, people, if you're going to illegally come into this country, steal our jobs and benefits, at least learn the language. It is really annoying, not knowing how to speak Spanish. For all you know, people could be standing right next to you (AKA me) plotting to kill you, and you couldn't tell.

Why is it that every country sends their trash over here? Why couldn't it be 45% English, 20% African-American, 10% German, 10% Dutch, and 15% everything else like in the 1800s?

Immigrants don't steal jobs; you don't own them and you don't deserve them as some kind of right. They get jobs because they are willing to work hard at jobs most Americans wouldn't touch for less money. It's competition, and too many Americans find the concept abhorrent, and turn their jealousy in to racism. Oh, and if we implement the same laws for wages and benefits for both illegal immigrants and citizens, in many cases the immigrants are still going to get hired because they are better workers.

"Trash"...I find it suprememly ironic that all of the groups you mentioned were considered "trash" and troublemakers when they first arrived, including your own ancestors. Oh, and many of them didn't speak English as well. Don't forget that they workedi in horrendous conditions for a pittance, because the "natives" (who were in their own right immigrants) didn't think they deserved it.

Rather than spewing racism, you need to realize that hard-working immigrants built this country despite being treated like shit by the self-righteous "natives" who wanted to keep them out. We'd be long since gone if it wasn't for the immigrants' hard work and determination.

I’m for strong boarder security to keep out criminals (a lot of Mexican immigrants commit crime and a lot of them are wanted by Mexican law enforcement as well) and those with major contagious diseases,. Everyone else should be able to come in, though.

Some of those Mexican immigrants are even homosexuals!

Seriously, why?

It can't be because of employment shortages. If an immigrant gets your job, it shouldn't be any different than if an American-born citizen did. In either case, you just need to work harder, silly. The solution here is to legalize all immigration, and enforce the income taxes and minimum wage laws.

It can't be to keep those foreign terrorists out, can it? Of course! If we had tighter border security we would have kept Jose Padilla, Ted Kaczynski, and Timothy McVeigh from causing any mayhem.

Who cares who comes in? Just open the borders! What difference does it make if someone is born in a different country rather than here?

I'm just going to hope you're being sarcastic and leave it at that.

I'm just going to hope you're being sarcastic and leave it at that.

About which part? :D

Well, I am Mexican, and I stand by Americai's opinion of the Mexican government, it's a cesspool of corruption and elitism, and a new revolution to topple, not only the government, but the entire political system would be most welcome.

Some of those Mexican immigrants are even homosexuals!
Gasp! :eek:
Then by all means, we must keep them away! Think of the children!
If anybody can’t tell that this is sarcasm, they should be hung by their entrails.

1. Our infrastructure can only grow by so much.
2. Illegal immigrants are cheating money from the government.
3. We want the money to stay in the USA, however selfish that is, not get sent to the Central American country we have never heard of.
4. Many immigrants take advantage of systems such as welfare or social security even though they didn't ever put any money into the systems.


not to mention the crime that comes with it.
i live in a community with a lot of illegal immigrants,and granted,the head of household works,and works hard....his wife/girlfriend and the 5/6/7 kids are all on welfare.
and of those kids,alot of them are in gangs and causing all sorts of mayhem and crime.
and none of them can be positively identified because they have bogus id's and s.s#'s
and they go to the er for medical treatment and give fake names,driving up MY medical costs because the hospital is not going to take a loss and either pass the costs on honest working people or the gov subsidises it...which equals higher taxes to the working man.
alot of crimes ARE committed by illlegals and they either run home or change id.
i have zero problem with immigration...but i exspect it to be LEGAL immigration,like my grandparents from ireland and italy did!
then legally come here,have real id and pay taxes...no problem from me then. :mp5:

Let's open all the borders to all the nations and have one world government.

Yeah. It will be kind of like the UN, united under one person....

And it will work just as great!


Seriously, I have zero problem with LEGAL immigration. Come on over! But there are huge problems associated with illegal immigration which people ignore, not the least of which being the fact that many of the people who come here illegally are literally taking their lives in their hands. How many people die in container ships? In the backs of trucks? trying to swim rivers?http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/international/jan-june00/human_cargo_6-20.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1881711.stm
http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/2000/0508/cover1.html

There are stories enough in the news of illegal immigrants who are kept in a state of nothing less than slavery to pay off the fees charged to get them here -- and at such exhorbitant rates we're talking years of work, if ever, to be free. http://caster.ssw.upenn.edu/~restes/CSEC_Files/Charts/Traffickers_Functionaries_010910.pdf

Not to mention young women brought here and forced into prostitution; again, held in what can only be called slavery. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/jan-june01/slavery_3-8.html

If you support illegal immigration, you ALSO support all of that.

Because obviously, if you support illegal immigration you have no morals.

Excuse me, I'm going to go kill my neighbor's dog.

:rolleyes:

Because obviously, if you support illegal immigration you have no morals.

Excuse me, I'm going to go kill my neighbor's dog.

:rolleyes:
Why would you support illegal immigration when you could support relaxing the immigration laws, thus making it legal?

Why would you support illegal immigration when you could support relaxing the immigration laws, thus making it legal?
Hey if these guys are willing to risk their lives to come here, obviously most of them have a pretty damn good reason to be here and won't waste away our state.

Hey if these guys are willing to risk their lives to come here, obviously most of them have a pretty damn good reason to be here and won't waste away our state.
They waist by being undocumented. If it was all legal, except for criminals and people with major contagious disease, they wouldn’t have to risk their lives, and more would come. We would then have enough cheap labor to no longer require China.

They waist by being undocumented. If it was all legal, except for criminals and people with major contagious disease, they wouldn’t have to risk their lives, and more would come. We would then have enough cheap labor to no longer require China.
Silly, if it was all legal then the states would be flooded far too quickly, lines will grow insanely long, families will have to starve waiting perhaps months for them to be cleared, and the state will go under some pretty massive social changes...among paying a LOT more to keep a growing and immense population safe and healthy. A population with a growing amount without healthcare insurance.

Those that need to be here are here or coming here.

Silly, if it was all legal then the states would be flooded far too quickly, lines will grow insanely long, families will have to starve waiting perhaps months for them to be cleared, and the state will go under some pretty massive social changes...among paying a LOT more to keep a growing and immense population safe and healthy. A population with a growing amount without healthcare insurance.

Those that need to be here are here or coming here.
What lines? You sign up, they run a quick background check, you’re not a criminal under US law, they let you in.
And if we got rid of frivolous lawsuits at the same time, health insurance would be cheap.

What lines? You sign up, they run a quick background check, you’re not a criminal under US law, they let you in.
And if we got rid of frivolous lawsuits at the same time, health insurance would be cheap.
Know how pretty big the demands are going to be suddenly for U.S. entrance starting from day one?

Run a background check of every nation on NS today. See if you can do it. Just look at their front page and go on to the next one. It's only a little bit of a taste.

Know how pretty big the demands are going to be suddenly for U.S. entrance starting from day one?
About forty percent of the population of Mexico if I’m not mistaken. Most of them are hard workers if they have jobs, which they don’t have in Mexico, and we need a much larger manual labor force if we are to compete in the free market.
Run a background check of every nation on NS today. See if you can do it. Just look at their front page and go on to the next one. It's only a little bit of a taste.
The CIA already has access to Mexico’s criminal database, I’m sure. Plus, if they were legal, the new immigrants wouldn’t have to be afraid of the police. In fact, we could take all the money that we put into the “Agricultural” department and create a federal fund that would pay immigrants for information leading to the arrest of criminals.

About forty percent of the population of Mexico if I’m not mistaken. Most of them are hard workers if they have jobs, which they don’t have in Mexico, and we need a much larger manual labor force if we are to compete in the free market.

The CIA already has access to Mexico’s criminal database, I’m sure. Plus, if they were legal, the new immigrants wouldn’t have to be afraid of the police. In fact, we could take all the money that we put into the “Agricultural” department and create a federal fund that would pay immigrants for information leading to the arrest of criminals.
Population of Mexico = 106,202,903 (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/mx.html)

106,202,903 x .4 = 42,481,116 Mexicans

U.S. Population = 295,734,134

And then you want to add a sudden 42.5 million to a 295.7 million population? :eek:

Also, did you try to look at the first page of every NS nation? My answer to all that is right there if you try to look at the homepage of every single nation in Nationstates.

The information on those pages is basically the criminal record of an individual Mexican. Just one. You need humans to go through all these records.

All forty two million four hundred and eighty one thousand one hundred and sixteen individual records.

Gonna take a good few months as everyone gets processed.

Of course it's an exaggeration, but I believe Bush has taught us to prepare for the worst-case scenario no matter how insane it may seem...at first.

Population of Mexico = 106,202,903 (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/mx.html)

106,202,903 x .4 = 42,481,116 Mexicans

U.S. Population = 295,734,134

And then you want to add a sudden 42.5 million to a 295.7 million population? :eek:

Also, did you try to look at the first page of every NS nation? My answer to all that is right there if you try to look at the homepage of every single nation in Nationstates.

The information on those pages is basically the criminal record of an individual Mexican. Just one. You need humans to go through all these records.

All forty two million four hundred and eighty one thousand one hundred and sixteen individual records.

Gonna take a good few months as everyone gets processed.

Of course it's an exaggeration, but I believe Bush has taught us to prepare for the worst-case scenario no matter how insane it may seem...at first.
Well then, screw processing. The cash incentive will be enough to get Mexicans to turn in their own.

Well then, screw processing. The cash incentive will be enough to get Mexicans to turn in their own.
O...kay.....what?

Well the thing is, immigrant workers are willing to work for a lot less than non-immigrants. So employers hire immigrant workers to save a bit of money.

Which is the main argument against illegal immigration.

I don't mind it, and this is Southern California!

If minimum wage is enforced, then all americans have to do is get off their lazy asses and work harder; if they do the same work as immigrants for the same amount of money, the incentive to hire them over americans is destroyed, right?

1. Overcrowding

2. Expense in healthcare and other areas

3. Increased criminal activity (call me un-PC, but immigrants, particularly from Latin America, do bring crime).

4. Less jobs for Americans

5. Potential terrorists

6. Lowered education standards

If minimum wage is enforced, then all americans have to do is get off their lazy asses and work harder; if they do the same work as immigrants for the same amount of money, the incentive to hire them over americans is destroyed, right?
Or we could get rid of minimum wage laws altogether. All they do is raise inflation, so people actually don’t have more money.
O...kay.....what?
Like I said before, cut funds from the Federal Agricultural Department (almost completely useless) and put it into a federal fund used to award Mexican immigrants who report information that leads to the arrest of a criminal.

Feel better now that you've had your hissy fit?

You shout support for those using their "constitutionall protected civil Liberties" and in the same breath have the nerve to tell me to shut up because you don't like the position I take? So your hispanic? Big fuckin' deal, I can check that box on the survey too, along with a bunch of others. Doesn't make me a Mexican and it doesn't make you one. We're both Americans. Mexico is part of the problem, it's rife with corruption. The US policies on immigration are just as big a part of the problem. My problem and point, if you'd climb down off your soapbox long enough to hear it, is that Legal Immigration from Mexico is an immpossibility for most of the impoverished who simply want a chance at a better life. I can't morally reconcile denying someone such just because they're born on the wrong side of an immaginary line. Whine about crime and drugs, whatever...just a smokescreen in my eyes, we got enough domestic varieties of both that I don't see a tough stance on immigration being a solution to either.
Elitist and racist?, yeah, I call it as I see it. If your solution to the problem is 'screw them, we gotta worry about us first', then yeah it fits.
Borders are immaginary lines drawn for political purposes. If your empathy for your fellow man stops at one or you place political agenda above the human condition, well we're never gonna see eye to eye....


but you'll never get me to shut the hell up.

Yes. I have the nerve. Your being a goddamned idiot and have no rational solution yet you gibby gab like everybody else thinks your opinions have any merit. You simply keep on with the same idealist crap that ISN'T GOING TO SOLVE ****. I mean, idealism mixed with common sense and an intelligent opinion is one thing, but your already insane enough to be committed. And by the way you are being just a hypocrite by criticizing those who air their grievences and have opinions contrary to yours. All I did was follow your hypocrisy. So if you plan to ***** about what I say, then fix your own issues first and be an example. I also have the RIGHT to tell you to shut the hell up. THAT IS FREE SPEECH.

I also AM hispanic. I'm afraid your going to have to note the fact that I'm not trying to decieve any other posters here by saying as such. Just remember this, not all Americans are white. Some of us are who we say we are. I'm a very Americanized hispanic living along the Rio Grande Boarder in the last county. Cameron County and I live in a small town called Santa Rosa. My last name is Rodriguez, and my mother's maiden last name is Elizondo. Mexico is 30-40 minutes from my home by going southeast through Harlingen and Brownsville. So, quit making excuses for your damned prejudice. I'm simply MORE aware of the fundamental issue than you are. PERIOD.

Secondly, US immigration is a problem because we DON'T secure our boarder, we have drug prohibition making related crimes rise in our communities along the boarder due to drug cartels, and finally we do NOTHING about putting pressure on Mexico for political and benefical changes.

But then again, that is a MINOR problem compared with Mexico's problems. And what I say stands. You are worrying about the after effects of the problem. You spend more time complaining about what naturally will happen with US citizens realizing their is a problem, than registering in your head that Mexico is the goddamned problem. I applaud Americans willing to do something to demand things change to help their country instead of being such idiotic fools hung up on impossible ideals. What I also said about Mexico becoming an upright country would eliminate almost ALL problems that are being said with the boarder issue. Want to make your ideals real? WORRY ABOUT MEXICO. NOT AMERICANS GETTING AGITATED WITH THE BOARDER ISSUE. I most of all WANT Mexico to stop doing what it does to its citizens so we can get a little ****ing peace and civility here as it is with Canada and the US.

And do NOT give me this **** about imaginary lines. Between those political lines is a MAJOR difference. Americans have far more suspicion of its government, has GUNS that are allowed to be bought by our citizens which helps the government not want to trigger national level outrage, and has frankly better principles which seperate it from Mexico. Mexico didn't become corrupt because they somewhere along the line drew a corrupt card out of the deck. The difference distinctly arose from CULTURAL differences and mentality that resulted in the major difference. Americans WILL get annoyed and will start looking for politican's heads to crack if they are ****ed over. Mexico on the other hand has taken its citizen's guns a long time ago.

Frankly, YOUR mentality isn't the type that would do more to prevent a country from going the way of the hell hole. Its people willing to REALLY organize and address a problem despite the politically correct thing to do. Let me tell you something, the minutemen have done MORE than you will ever do. Why? Because they are riling Mexico's tail feathers. I admit I saw one idiot who was probably racist have the confedrate flag on the local news, but there is always one person to **** up a whole movement's image. But the fact remains that THEY (not "YOU") have made US citizens aware there is a boarder problem. Hell they are one of the reasons this whole topic was even posted here. That is a step in the right direction.

And what has YOUR damned opinion done? NOTHING. And that is why you need to give your ideals a rest on this topic because it isn't helping anyone and take it elsewhere in happy lovey utopia message board where nobody has real problems. Try a disney message board.

Well, I am Mexican, and I stand by Americai's opinion of the Mexican government, it's a cesspool of corruption and elitism, and a new revolution to topple, not only the government, but the entire political system would be most welcome.

Finally, someone aware who is at fault here.

I hate it when people say we should give them back their land. However harsh it sounds, they lost, we won. Same thing with the british, it was theirs, but we got it.
YEAH USA!!!! WHOOOO!

Seriously, why?

It can't be because of employment shortages. If an immigrant gets your job, it shouldn't be any different than if an American-born citizen did. In either case, you just need to work harder, silly. The solution here is to legalize all immigration, and enforce the income taxes and minimum wage laws.

It can't be to keep those foreign terrorists out, can it? Of course! If we had tighter border security we would have kept Jose Padilla, Ted Kaczynski, and Timothy McVeigh from causing any mayhem.

Who cares who comes in? Just open the borders! What difference does it make if someone is born in a different country rather than here?

Hang a new sign on the Statue of Liberty in my opinion , it will read :

NO Vacancies

In flashing glowing letters if you like.

I find it strange with the annual green card lottery that English people are not allowed to enter. England is one of Americas staunchest supporters and English people speak the language.

I'm all for the idea of seriously reducing the barriers to immigration. Have you ever LOOKED at what it takes to get into the US, even if you have immediate family? God, it's a nightmare that takes years and a whole hell of a lot of money.

And even then you can be denied for no real stated reason and no real way to appeal.

The system just isn't working. Especially with the numbers coming through, that shows that too many US companies are willing to hire illegals and that the process takes too damn long and is too expensive.

And Neo, I don't what on earth you meant about immigrants take jobs from Americans. One, they're taking the jobs no one else wants to do. Two, if they have immigrated to America... they're Americans, or in the process of, so I don't know how they're taking jobs from themselves. :)

And what has YOUR damned opinion done? NOTHING. And that is why you need to give your ideals a rest on this topic because it isn't helping anyone and take it elsewhere in happy lovey utopia message board where nobody has real problems. Try a disney message board.


And of course, YOUR delightful little opinion has done SO MUCH GOOD for the world.

Oh wait it hasn't, and you're being a total hypocrite. ;)

And of course, YOUR delightful little opinion has done SO MUCH GOOD for the world.

Oh wait it hasn't, and you're being a total hypocrite. ;)

Wow. That was so ****ing constructive, hell I don't even know what to classify that opinion of yours was outside of the troll catagory. At the least I have bothered to inform all of you who were reading what the real problem is with the boarder issue.

What have you been contributing to the discussion if anything? Just spouting out the usual republican/democrat idiot pre-created party argument instead of formulating your own informed opinion?

OH ****. MORE HYPOCRISY.

I never ONCE stated I was making plans to fix THIS issue unlike the other fool did. So pay some goddamned attention once in a while. I only am acutely aware of what is actually transpiring with the boarder because our regional news COVERS IT EVERY DAY and my community and ethnicity is strongly tied to Texas/Mexican relations.

I also personally have hopes of fixing other issues which are education of orphaned children, and organization of independent voters.

Can you PLEASE mention where I said my opinion would change the boarder issue like that other self deluded fool? WHAT? OH NOES! KTHX for playing but BI!

Crap, when are people going to get their heads out of their ass?

Wow. That was so ****ing constructive, hell I don't even know what to classify that opinion of yours was outside of the troll catagory. At the least I have bothered to inform all of you who were reading what the real problem is with the boarder issue.

What have you been contributing to the discussion if anything? Just spouting out the usual republican/democrat idiot pre-created party argument instead of formulating your own informed opinion?

OH ****. MORE HYPOCRISY.

Usual republican/democrat party argument? Nice fucking strawman. I hope tearing that one down doesn't sexually arouse you.

I never ONCE stated I was making plans to fix THIS issue unlike the other fool did.

Can you PLEASE mention where I said my opinion would change the boarder issue like that other self deluded fool? WHAT? OH NOES! KTHX for playing but BI!

You seem to think you're being informative and constructive with your raging hissy fits here, and you criticize people for basically arguing on an online forum while you're overlooking the fact that that's all you're doing here.

Crap, when are people going to get their heads out of their ass?

I agree. When are they? You can't even tell who you're arguing with, or why, but oh gosh you're full of righteous, mindless anger! OMG! And you call ME troll. You better put a leash on your rampaging opinion before it makes you look every bit as idiotic as those "fools" you argue with.

Usual republican/democrat party argument? Nice fucking strawman. I hope tearing that one down doesn't sexually arouse you.

English mother****er. Do you speak it?

You seem to think you're being informative and constructive with your raging hissy fits here, and you criticize people for basically arguing on an online forum while you're overlooking the fact that that's all you're doing here.

Hello, Mexico is the Mexican's problem. Discussing why Americans need to demand more boarder security is valid posting.

I agree. When are they? You can't even tell who you're arguing with, or why, but oh gosh you're full of righteous, mindless anger! OMG! And you call ME troll. You better put a leash on your rampaging opinion before it makes you look every bit as idiotic as those "fools" you argue with.

I was arguing in particular about some idiot poster. And yes, I don't care about their name to know who I was arguing with. And yes, you are trolling. You have gotten us off topic. The LESS you stay on topic, the more you troll.

So I'm going to stop addressing your whining. Lets hope this topic resumes being related to the boarder. Now, if you don't want to be a damned hypocrite, how does your issue with my points prove me wrong?

The Lost Planet, you need to chill out from what I'm seeing.

Americai, your comments, especially in
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9519465&postcount=40 and http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9530658&postcount=75 are completely out of line. I don't know where you got the idea that flaming people and calling them motherfuckers is appropriate, but maybe a three day forumban will get that point across.

OFFICIALLY WARNED: 3 DAY FORUMBAN

And Neo, I don't what on earth you meant about immigrants take jobs from Americans. One, they're taking the jobs no one else wants to do. Two, if they have immigrated to America... they're Americans, or in the process of, so I don't know how they're taking jobs from themselves. :)

1: Bullshit! Unfortunately right now I live and work in San Francisco(not for much longer) :D . I am a working class student. I am a parttime brunch/lunch chef in a hotel and have been looking for a night job for two months! I walk into a restaurant and look around at the employees abd see nothing but mexicans! I interview for a line postion sautee or something and they almost laugh. I need a fucking job too. I was born in the US! I have had a few jobs here in the past where I had to work alongside mexicans. They are not as hard working as everyone thinks, they're just cheap. I've had them ask me to slow down because I was making them look bad! And I'm not being paid what I would be anywhere else without the overblown illegal population. 2: They are not Americans, and not many of them are in the process of assimilation. I've worked with illegals who have been here for years and still dont speak english. I almost want to smack them for disrespect. As for immigrants who have the respect to go through the proper channels I will respect them as fellow Americans. But as far as I'm concerned its Citizens first!