NationStates Jolt Archive

I've been serioulsy getting the impression that this is how children are viewed in Germany. From personal experience, children are considered a burden by society. There's been so many instances in my childhood where I was told to stop playing because I was too loud, didn't live in the vicinity (which wasn't true), or because I was "ruining the grass."
I just saw a report on how a day care center is being closed because the neighbors sued against the noise and it brought up all the instances where my neighbors told me to shut up. They're friggin children! Of course they're loud! GROW UP! :mad:

And then everybody wonders why Germany has less births per capita than every other European country...

I've never been to Germany, but reading this gives me the impression that there are a lot of bitter old people there.

Children really are a pain in the ass. Whenever some lunatic wants to censor radio or television programming they say we've got to do it because children might be exposed to profanity/sex/violence/whatever. Because of children everything's got to be sanitized and disneyfied all to hell. My favorite movies, on the rare occasions when they're shown on TV, end up bein edited for content and the dialog changed to include phrases like "Mellon Farmer" instead of Motherfucker. Children are ruining the art of film!

Kill all the children, then we won't have any problems! They're parasitical lifeforms which make an excessive amount of noise and smile for their size, and do nothing but cause problems and hassle. I say we should start genetically engineering everybody so that they are born as a fully-grown, mature human being. It's about time we had at least one of them on this planet, after all...

Children really are a pain in the ass. Whenever some lunatic wants to censor radio or television programming they say we've got to do it because children might be exposed to profanity/sex/violence/whatever. Because of children everything's got to be sanitized and disneyfied all to hell. My favorite movies, on the rare occasions when they're shown on TV, end up bein edited for content and the dialog changed to include phrases like "Mellon Farmer" instead of Motherfucker. Children are ruining the art of film!
Actually, you can't blame that on the children. Typically, the children are much more capable of dealing with the "offensive" material than the so called adults who insist on editing it out.

I've never been to Germany, but reading this gives me the impression that there are a lot of bitter old people there.And with this kind of attitude, that's not going to change much...

Kill all the children, then we won't have any problems! They're parasitical lifeforms which make an excessive amount of noise and smile for their size, and do nothing but cause problems and hassle. I say we should start genetically engineering everybody so that they are born as a fully-grown, mature human being. It's about time we had at least one of them on this planet, after all...
Too bad we didn't start this policy when you were a child, huh? ;)

Anti-childrenism (hey, I just made up a new word!) seems to be pretty prevalent in many industrialised nations. In urban centres in particular. I didn't notice it so much growing up, but I sure notice it now that I have kids. This is one reason I moved back to the country...people out here tend to be more community orientated, and more friendly towards families.

Yes, and the German language refers to little girls as "it" (or "es" in German, which basically means "it"), too, which doesn't reflect too well on them.

Kill all the children, then we won't have any problems! They're parasitical lifeforms which make an excessive amount of noise and smile for their size, and do nothing but cause problems and hassle. I say we should start genetically engineering everybody so that they are born as a fully-grown, mature human being. It's about time we had at least one of them on this planet, after all... ;)
Problem with that is you need time to mature. We'd have to figure out some way to get the brain fully developed by the time the individual is born. Full grown, phyiscally mature humans don't make much sense if they still have the intellect of a newborn.

I say we should start genetically engineering everybody so that they are born as a fully-grown, mature human being...
I'll agree to this ONLY if you get men to squeeze these giants out of their orifices instead of women... :D

But do ya know something? Kids are annoying. Yes that nursery closing is annoying for the parents and kids but what gives someone the right to make that much noise in a residential area? There is one next to my aunts house-she has ME and Chronic Fatigue-why should she have to put up with it?

Before people think I'm satan, I don't mind kids. But parents have the view of 'oh look at our precious little ones banging pans and screaming at 7 am' they're just being themselves' etc its bloody well annoying for other to have to listen to it. I know that when you have children in the house you do become immune to all the constant noise but as already said its not fair on others as most kids these days are spolit brats.

And with this kind of attitude, that's not going to change much...
I don't know what you mean. If its my attitude you're complaining about, that's pretty funny considering I was basically agreeing with you. Maybe you felt that I was saying something derogatory about your country? If that's the case, then excuse me while I laugh hysterically at you. If you can't eat it, don't dish it.

Yes, and the German language refers to little girls as "it" (or "es" in German, which basically means "it"), too, which doesn't reflect too well on them.It has to do with the gender applied to "Mädchen." Semantics doesn't really have much to do with it, specially since the grumpy people don't really care whether you're male or female. Besides, by now it would sound wrong to change it, since you would completely confuse it with the plural form.

Children really are a pain in the ass. Whenever some lunatic wants to censor radio or television programming they say we've got to do it because children might be exposed to profanity/sex/violence/whatever. Because of children everything's got to be sanitized and disneyfied all to hell. My favorite movies, on the rare occasions when they're shown on TV, end up bein edited for content and the dialog changed to include phrases like "Mellon Farmer" instead of Motherfucker. Children are ruining the art of film!

I agree with the previous post saying it is the parents who cause this not the children. They don't want to have to deal with it or teach their children the difference between reality and fantasy. So we get jaded children when they found out on their own.

My children seem to have a pretty good grip and I'd never consider them a pain in the ass.

On a side note...I think it is funny as hell to watch a TV movie and hear people say Mellon Farmer. To me...that's fun with audio. Then again, I try not to watch too much TV.

I don't know what you mean. If its my attitude you're complaining about, that's pretty funny considering I was basically agreeing with you. Maybe you felt that I was saying something derogatory about your country? If that's the case, then excuse me while I laugh hysterically at you. If you can't eat it, don't dish it.No silly, the attitude of the grumpy people.
The less children we have the more grumpy old people there will be per capita ;)

Anti-childrenism (hey, I just made up a new word!) seems to be pretty prevalent in many industrialised nations. In urban centres in particular. I didn't notice it so much growing up, but I sure notice it now that I have kids. This is one reason I moved back to the country...people out here tend to be more community orientated, and more friendly towards families.I noticed it growing up. We had neighbors yell at us and threaten to chase their dog after us if we didn't stop when we were playing in our courtyard.

No silly, the attitude of the grumpy people.
The less children we have the more grumpy old people there will be per capita ;)
Oh. (is embarrassed)
My bad. I'm sorry.

Yes, I still agree with you.

Before people think I'm satan, I don't mind kids. But parents have the view of 'oh look at our precious little ones banging pans and screaming at 7 am' they're just being themselves' etc its bloody well annoying for other to have to listen to it. I know that when you have children in the house you do become immune to all the constant noise but as already said its not fair on others as most kids these days are spolit brats.
Yes. Children playing is a horrible affront to the silence adults crave. Children should be seen, and not heard. It would be much better to funnel their energy into more productive endevours, like carpet weaving.

OR working parents should have to drive to the city limits where all daycares and schools should be relocated to, in order to avoid the 'noise' problem.

Oh. (is embarrassed)
My bad. I'm sorry.

Yes, I still agree with you.Don't think that everything is an attack. It isn't always ;)

Yes. Children playing is a horrible affront to the silence adults crave. Children should be seen, and not heard. It would be much better to funnel their energy into more productive endevours, like carpet weaving.
Screw carpet weaving. Coal mining's where it's at. Children are tiny enough to squeeze into the smallest little tunnels and chip out the coal. Sure some of them will die in cave-ins and explosions and the rest will live only a couple of decades before the black lung gets them, but their short lives will be productive. They won't be wasting time on idle play.

Yes. Children playing is a horrible affront to the silence adults crave. Children should be seen, and not heard. It would be much better to funnel their energy into more productive endevours, like carpet weaving.
If we could find a way to harness the energy of little kids, and convert it to electricity, Iran wouldn't need a nuclear power plant. :p

I lived in Germany and have just been there 5 weeks ago and compared to Britain I would say parenting standards seem a lot higher there than in England.

The thing about rules for kids, Germany is full of rules and signs...don't do this, don't do that and often for very little reason. Sur the country is ordered and people have fun but it seems people can only have fun when the state says it can...I find that worrying.

If we could find a way to harness the energy of little kids, and convert it to electricity, Iran wouldn't need a nuclear power plant. :p
You mean burn the children to fire the steam turbines? I like it!

Children really are a pain in the ass. Whenever some lunatic wants to censor radio or television programming they say we've got to do it because children might be exposed to profanity/sex/violence/whatever. Because of children everything's got to be sanitized and disneyfied all to hell. My favorite movies, on the rare occasions when they're shown on TV, end up bein edited for content and the dialog changed to include phrases like "Mellon Farmer" instead of Motherfucker. Children are ruining the art of film!

Because of this, I suggest the following:

Mandatory blindfolds and sound-suppressor-units (headphones that block sound) must be worn by all people under the age of 18 between the hours of 7pm and bedtime.

I noticed it growing up. We had neighbors yell at us and threaten to chase their dog after us if we didn't stop when we were playing in our courtyard.
I grew up both on an isolated farm and on a reserve...on the former, no one could hear us screaming and yelling, and on the latter, children tumble around and make as much noise as they want. No one minds. Children are raised much more communally on the reserve, even by those who are childless, or who have grown children.

But do ya know something? Kids are annoying. Yes that nursery closing is annoying for the parents and kids but what gives someone the right to make that much noise in a residential area? There is one next to my aunts house-she has ME and Chronic Fatigue-why should she have to put up with it?

Before people think I'm satan, I don't mind kids. But parents have the view of 'oh look at our precious little ones banging pans and screaming at 7 am' they're just being themselves' etc its bloody well annoying for other to have to listen to it. I know that when you have children in the house you do become immune to all the constant noise but as already said its not fair on others as most kids these days are spolit brats.Children need to be wild at some point in life. I've taken care of enough children to know that they need a bit reigning in sometimes, but they need to run free even more. What's your solution? Ban having children in residential areas?

Don't think that everything is an attack. It isn't always ;)
You're right. It was my fault. I'm in a bit of a bitchy mood this morning. Sorry about that.

If we could find a way to harness the energy of little kids, and convert it to electricity, Iran wouldn't need a nuclear power plant. :pLike some kind of giant mousewheel? :D

You're right. It was my fault. I'm in a bit of a bitchy mood this morning. Sorry about that.Apology accepted. :) (But let's drop it here)

Yes well, people who tend to dislike (and not want) kids also tend to have this weird belief that parents are terribly selfish. Like choosing to give up sleep, personal time, sanity, money, and uninterupted loud sex is a selfish act. Sheesh.

Little children have only become more spoilt and obnoxious over the years. I think sending them into hard labor is a great idea. I support child labor!

Little children have only become more spoilt and obnoxious over the years. I think sending them into hard labor is a great idea. I support child labor!Really?

Yes well, people who tend to dislike (and not want) kids also tend to have this weird belief that parents are terribly selfish. Like choosing to give up sleep, personal time, sanity, money, and uninterupted loud sex is a selfish act. Sheesh.

Those of us who don't want kids get tired of being told what a sacrifice parents make for their kids. Cause, it was your choice, not mine to have them. I'm sorry, but why should I pay for your choices?

The time this really irritates me the most, is when parents take days off work all the time for sick kids. Don't get me wrong, I know they need to do that, but most of the companies I've worked for don't charge them a sick day or a vacation day for it! So, since I don't have kids I get less paid time off work? And we have to pick up the slack while they're gone?
:gundge:

I don't mind kids. I have absolutely no desire to have them myself (I'd be a terrible parent. I'm far too selfish), but I don't mind them being around. They are just kids, so you have to expect some noise. And they'll be paying for me when I'm old, so that's something.

What I REALLY hate though, is when parents let their kids run wild in public without even trying to calm them down. Like in shopping centres. Now, a little whining about not getting their favourite sweets or that toy they want is to be expected. But, damn it, if your kid is having a tantrum at 140 decibels in aisle 5, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Don't just let them get away with it! Parents have every right to bring their kids with them when they go shopping or whatever, and being kids, they can get unruly and most people are pretty understanding. But so many parents these days don't even seem to make an effort to keep their kids under control.

Yes, parents have every right to bring their kids, but other people also have a right to a little peace.

Those of us who don't want kids get tired of being told what a sacrifice parents make for their kids. Cause, it was your choice, not mine to have them. I'm sorry, but why should I pay for your choices?

The time this really irritates me the most, is when parents take days off work all the time for sick kids. Don't get me wrong, I know they need to do that, but most of the companies I've worked for don't charge them a sick day or a vacation day for it! So, since I don't have kids I get less paid time off work? And we have to pick up the slack while they're gone?
:gundge:Why should you benefit from their choices then? At least in Germany it will be those children paying for the rent of the current working generation.

Why should you benefit from their choices then? At least in Germany it will be those children paying for the rent of the current working generation.

I'm in USA, nobody will be paying my rent, but me.

I have no problem with children as long as I am not stuck with the really annoying ones. I am talking about those kids that you see in public places that whine about stuff constantly and the parents don't even stop them.

I'm only fifteen and I'm already becoming a bitter old man. :p

I have no problem with children as long as I am not stuck with the really annoying ones. I am talking about those kids that you see in public places that whine about stuff.

I'm only fifteen and I'm already becoming a bitter old man. :p

Getting through the "bitter old man" stage early means you can get to the "dirty old man" stage earlier. Be glad! :P

Getting through the "bitter old man" stage early means you can get to the "dirty old man" stage earlier. Be glad! :P

My dream is closer to coming true!

"Have your little friends there come sit on grandpa's lap..."

I've been serioulsy getting the impression that this is how children are viewed in Germany. From personal experience, children are considered a burden by society. There's been so many instances in my childhood where I was told to stop playing because I was too loud, didn't live in the vicinity (which wasn't true), or because I was "ruining the grass."
I just saw a report on how a day care center is being closed because the neighbors sued against the noise and it brought up all the instances where my neighbors told me to shut up. They're friggin children! Of course they're loud! GROW UP! :mad:

And then everybody wonders why Germany has less births per capita than every other European country...
Unfortunatly I have to agree. One my first holidays my parents went with me to the baltic sea, because they were told, that it is better to travel inside of germany with small children. Actually nobody knows why, because the Netherlands or France would have been nearer. But as young parents you seem to listen to such strange advices. Well, they never have been treated that bad. Next holidays we went to Southern France, which was great because people were awfully nice towards children.

I don't mind kids. I have absolutely no desire to have them myself (I'd be a terrible parent. I'm far too selfish), but I don't mind them being around. They are just kids, so you have to expect some noise. And they'll be paying for me when I'm old, so that's something.

What I REALLY hate though, is when parents let their kids run wild in public without even trying to calm them down. Like in shopping centres. Now, a little whining about not getting their favourite sweets or that toy they want is to be expected. But, damn it, if your kid is having a tantrum at 140 decibels in aisle 5, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Don't just let them get away with it! Parents have every right to bring their kids with them when they go shopping or whatever, and being kids, they can get unruly and most people are pretty understanding. But so many parents these days don't even seem to make an effort to keep their kids under control.

Yes, parents have every right to bring their kids, but other people also have a right to a little peace.That's true. Certain places aren't playgrounds. But a mall or a shopping center is completely different from a courtyard. My complaint is mainly going towards those people that don't accept any form of noise.
My parents let me play in the courtyard of our house because it was either that or let me go alone to the playground, which was something they didn't want to do. Running around unattended in the small courtyard was fun for me and wasn't something they had to worry about.
I've heard that the best solution for the tantrum is taking the kid home right then and there.

My dream is closer to coming true!

"Have your little friends there come sit on grandpa's lap..."
Like I heard some commedian say, "Nobody ever reports Grandpa for being creepy".

Like I heard some commedian say, "Nobody ever reports Grandpa for being creepy".

That'd be Dane Cook. :D

Unfortunatly I have to agree. One my first holidays my parents went with me to the baltic sea, because they were told, that it is better to travel inside of germany with small children. Actually nobody knows why, because the Netherlands or France would have been nearer. But as young parents you seem to listen to such strange advices. Well, they never have been treated that bad. Next holidays we went to Southern France, which was great because people were awfully nice towards children.We always went to the North Sea, but that's because that's where our grandparents live. I've hardly had problems there, but that was because you could goof around in the Wattenmeer at high or low tides whenever you wanted too... :D
(hated getting hosed down after getting all muddy though)

The US went through a phase during the early 1980s when children, especially teenagers, were considered evil. The big cultural vibe was that the current crop of kids were a bunch of lazy, good-for-nothing criminals who would never amount to anything. They could never live up to the example of the oh-so-wonderful baby boom generation, which was the best generation in history. Kids were apathetic, kids were drug dealers, kids were possessed by demons...

It wasn't a fun time to be a teenager, believe me. But the culture eventually outgrew this sick, self-destructive phase (about the time the boomers started having children of their own in droves not coincidentally.) Meanwhile, my peers and I acquired some very good survival skills and a healthy dose of distrust for authority.

That'd be Dane Cook. :D
It wasn't Dane Cook. It was a skinnier guy with a less physically energetic routine.

Those of us who don't want kids get tired of being told what a sacrifice parents make for their kids. Cause, it was your choice, not mine to have them. I'm sorry, but why should I pay for your choices?
You only hear about us making sacrifices for our kids when you come out and call us selfish (with no understanding of what it actually means to be a parent apparently).

And you pay for our 'choices' the same way others paid for your parents' choice to have you. Education, healthcare, parks and so on. Because a society needs kids, and you may not like that, but until you come up with another way to reproduce that doesn't involve noisy children, you're up the creek.

The time this really irritates me the most, is when parents take days off work all the time for sick kids. Don't get me wrong, I know they need to do that, but most of the companies I've worked for don't charge them a sick day or a vacation day for it! So, since I don't have kids I get less paid time off work? And we have to pick up the slack while they're gone?
Sounds like a load of crap to me. I've never worked for anyone who didn't 'charge' a sick day or a vacation day for such things. I'm sure there are some places...but by no means is this true across the board. It doesn't make sense for the employer.

That's true. Certain places aren't playgrounds. But a mall or a shopping center is completely different from a courtyard. My complaint is mainly going towards those people that don't accept any form of noise.
My parents let me play in the courtyard of our house because it was either that or let me go alone to the playground, which was something they didn't want to do. Running around unattended in the small courtyard was fun for me and wasn't something they had to worry about.
I've heard that the best solution for the tantrum is taking the kid home right then and there.

People got upset because you were playing in the courtyard of your own house? That's incredible. Not to mention ridiculous. Isn't that sort of like getting pissed off at kids playing in their backyard next door? Pretty stupid.

I actually think a little noise from kids having fun is a good thing. Keeps you from taking the world too seriously, I find. The world would be a much grimmer place without the noise of children, but then, Germans always have been a fairly grim folk.

But so many parents these days don't even seem to make an effort to keep their kids under control.
Yes, parents have every right to bring their kids, but other people also have a right to a little peace.I think this is a case of you noticing the minority while the majority walk by you unheeded.

You notice the loud and abnoxious kids. There are a great many kids you probably don't even notice because they are doing nothing to draw your attention. But as with all things...the rowdy minority get more attention...and the majority gets the label.

It wasn't Dane Cook. It was a skinnier guy with a less physically energetic routine.

Hmmm. You might be right. Damn, I am getting my comedians mixed up. I haven't seen that guy's Comedy Central Presents episode in a while.

Why should you benefit from their choices then? At least in Germany it will be those children paying for the rent of the current working generation.
Yup. No more social security and so on...quit freeloading off my kids and their future earnings!

Hmmm. You might be right. Damn, I am getting my comedians mixed up. I haven't seen that guy's Comedy Central Presents episode in a while.
Despite it's repetative nature Comedy Central is one of the greatest TV stations ever.

Children need to be wild at some point in life. I've taken care of enough children to know that they need a bit reigning in sometimes, but they need to run free even more. What's your solution? Ban having children in residential areas?


Big deal you've taken care of kids, so have I. If you read the post again, I could see why the nursery was closed on the basis my aunt lives next to one and the noise level is unreal. No kid needs to be wild-any wild kids I've ever encountered haven't ended up in the best situations in later life. I know kids have to be kids-but what I am trying to get across is that it is annoying to have to listen to kids screaming etc all the time.
For anyone who has kids how many times have you yelled at them to keep in down becasue you are on the phone/in public/have a headache/watching TV/or they are just being really really loud?

Despite it's repetative nature Comedy Central is one of the greatest TV stations ever.

Comedy Central corrupted me and I thank it for that! I am what happens when you allow yours kids to watch South Park at the age of twelve.

People got upset because you were playing in the courtyard of your own house? That's incredible. Not to mention ridiculous. Isn't that sort of like getting pissed off at kids playing in their backyard next door? Pretty stupid.

I actually think a little noise from kids having fun is a good thing. Keeps you from taking the world too seriously, I find. The world would be a much grimmer place without the noise of children, but then, Germans always have been a fairly grim folk.Apartment house, yeah. A lot of people lived there. I can understand why it would be loud, courtyards tend to echo. Those specific people were Turkish immigrants, I think, but most of the other instances ("ruining the grass" by playing soccer)
Germans aren't all that grim. Just some of them get that way when they want to enjoy their "Lebensabend" (evening of life, refers to retirement).

I don't mind kids. I have absolutely no desire to have them myself (I'd be a terrible parent. I'm far too selfish), but I don't mind them being around. They are just kids, so you have to expect some noise. And they'll be paying for me when I'm old, so that's something.

What I REALLY hate though, is when parents let their kids run wild in public without even trying to calm them down. Like in shopping centres. Now, a little whining about not getting their favourite sweets or that toy they want is to be expected. But, damn it, if your kid is having a tantrum at 140 decibels in aisle 5, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Don't just let them get away with it! Parents have every right to bring their kids with them when they go shopping or whatever, and being kids, they can get unruly and most people are pretty understanding. But so many parents these days don't even seem to make an effort to keep their kids under control.

Yes, parents have every right to bring their kids, but other people also have a right to a little peace.
Exactly

I think this is a case of you noticing the minority while the majority walk by you unheeded.

You notice the loud and abnoxious kids. There are a great many kids you probably don't even notice because they are doing nothing to draw your attention. But as with all things...the rowdy minority get more attention...and the majority gets the label.

I won't dispute that that's probably part of it. But I see it so much that I can't help but think it's getting worse. I've been working at a supermarket for a while now (crappy work, but the pay is suprisingly good) and only a handful of times have a actually seen a parent try to do something when their kid has a full-blown tantrum.

Now, I'm aware that ignoring the child is often a good way to get them to stop, and this is a perfectly valid strategy at home when there's only really the family to think about. But in a public place, there are other people to consider. Leaving the kid screaming for 20 minutes before they get the point and stop is just pretty inconsiderate.

You're right that it IS a minority of kids that do this, most are reasonably well-behaved. But the parents of this minority of kids just don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Big deal you've taken care of kids, so have I. If you read the post again, I could see why the nursery was closed on the basis my aunt lives next to one and the noise level is unreal. No kid needs to be wild-any wild kids I've ever encountered haven't ended up in the best situations in later life. I know kids have to be kids-but what I am trying to get across is that it is annoying to have to listen to kids screaming etc all the time.
For anyone who has kids how many times have you yelled at them to keep in down becasue you are on the phone/in public/have a headache/watching TV/or they are just being really really loud?So basically, ban childcare in residential areas. It's unrealistic.
So you've taken care of kids. Certainly taught you something. I've learned the difference between yelling while someone's on the phone/in public/have a headache/watching TV/or they are just being really really loud and normal behavior. They need to be restricted, but not "seen and not heard." Those scenarios you listed are worst-case-scenarios. Kids behave like that, but kids also behave quieter a lot of times.
I've had to tell the kids I worked with to keep it down when it was inappropriate, but there's a difference to normal behavior.

So basically, ban childcare in residential areas. It's unrealistic.


Well thats what you seem to want to do as I have said this for the second time I don't think that is a good idea!

Well thats what you seem to want to do as I have said this for the second time I don't think that is a good idea!But you seem to have no problem with closing down a day care center because of the (unavoidable) noise level.

Children really are a pain in the ass. Whenever some lunatic wants to censor radio or television programming they say we've got to do it because children might be exposed to profanity/sex/violence/whatever. Because of children everything's got to be sanitized and disneyfied all to hell. My favorite movies, on the rare occasions when they're shown on TV, end up bein edited for content and the dialog changed to include phrases like "Mellon Farmer" instead of Motherfucker. Children are ruining the art of film!

I think this is why I don't care for kids. If I didn't get penalized because someone isn't willing to watch thier kids I wouldn't care.

But you seem to have no problem with closing down a day care center because of the (unavoidable) noise level.


There's a difference with having kids in a residential area who just reside their. Kids being kids and all that. I am just saying I can understand why it has been closed down.

There's a difference with having kids in a residential area who just reside their. Kids being kids and all that. I am just saying I can understand why it has been closed down.I can too. I think it's an absurd reason.

Children really are a pain in the ass. Whenever some lunatic wants to censor radio or television programming they say we've got to do it because children might be exposed to profanity/sex/violence/whatever. Because of children everything's got to be sanitized and disneyfied all to hell. My favorite movies, on the rare occasions when they're shown on TV, end up bein edited for content and the dialog changed to include phrases like "Mellon Farmer" instead of Motherfucker. Children are ruining the art of film!


Well if you dont like it dont watch it on tv get the dvd. Everybody has to be a child once in their life. What right does anyone have to tell children they have no right to live or enjoy tv? Awww...boo hoo no motherfucker on TV and even if their werent kids that word still wouldnt make it on the air. You really have to have that word that bad. Grow up!! Society cannot continue without children. Dont have any if you dont want to but leave the rest of us alone. And whoever complained on that daycare needs to have the sticks removed out of their ass. :sniper:

There's a difference with having kids in a residential area who just reside their. Kids being kids and all that. I am just saying I can understand why it has been closed down.

YOure right..that daycare should be next to a liquor store or porno store. The daycares generally only operate from 6 am to 530 pm and the residents have plenty of quiet hours they need to go straight to hell.

You only hear about us making sacrifices for our kids when you come out and call us selfish (with no understanding of what it actually means to be a parent apparently).

And you pay for our 'choices' the same way others paid for your parents' choice to have you. Education, healthcare, parks and so on. Because a society needs kids, and you may not like that, but until you come up with another way to reproduce that doesn't involve noisy children, you're up the creek.

Sounds like a load of crap to me. I've never worked for anyone who didn't 'charge' a sick day or a vacation day for such things. I'm sure there are some places...but by no means is this true across the board. It doesn't make sense for the employer.

No, I've never called anyone selfish for having kids. I've only complained when people with kids are given priority over those of us without kids. Maybe it's because I'm living in the south (bible-belt area) but many employers are much more lenient with employees with kids, heck the grocery store even has designated parking spaces for shoppers with kids! Like the handicapped spaces, but I don't think having kids makes you handicapped!

I'm just saying, if you make a choice to have kids, and this disrupts your life, don't expect me to feel sorry for you. And like others have said on this board, if your child acts out in public, get them under control or remove them from the situation. I don't mean no noise, but shreiking at the top of their lungs is unacceptable in the grocery store, movie theater, or as I experienced more recently in my workplace! This kid was running up and down the halls screaming and demanding candy from all my coworkers. The mother kept trying to reason with the child until finally giving in and buying him candy from the snack machine.

No, I've never called anyone selfish for having kids. I've only complained when people with kids are given priority over those of us without kids. Maybe it's because I'm living in the south (bible-belt area) but many employers are much more lenient with employees with kids, heck the grocery store even has designated parking spaces for shoppers with kids! Like the handicapped spaces, but I don't think having kids makes you handicapped!

I'm just saying, if you make a choice to have kids, and this disrupts your life, don't expect me to feel sorry for you. And like others have said on this board, if your child acts out in public, get them under control or remove them from the situation. I don't mean no noise, but shreiking at the top of their lungs is unacceptable in the grocery store, movie theater, or as I experienced more recently in my workplace! This kid was running up and down the halls screaming and demanding candy from all my coworkers. The mother kept trying to reason with the child until finally giving in and buying him candy from the snack machine.

I totally agree with you ..the kids do need to be removed and allowed to calm down..not given into because that trains them to continue poor behavior. Whoever has bosses that dont count against them are lucky...Im also deep in the bible belt where there is little compassion and much abuse of the blue collar workers. People need to work and we need these daycares in fact we need different types ..those who operate on weekends and nightime because most of the jobs available require some weekend and night work.. I cant get a job because I have no one to watch my kids at these hours. Oh and I also believe a good whupping for a tantrum works wonders as well.

Well if you dont like it dont watch it on tv get the dvd. Everybody has to be a child once in their life. What right does anyone have to tell children they have no right to live or enjoy tv? Awww...boo hoo no motherfucker on TV and even if their werent kids that word still wouldnt make it on the air. You really have to have that word that bad. Grow up!! Society cannot continue without children. Dont have any if you dont want to but leave the rest of us alone. And whoever complained on that daycare needs to have the sticks removed out of their ass. :sniper:
Movies are art. Should the statue of David be forced to wear pants because some kid might see his cock? Should Bottocelli's Venus have her naughty bits whited out so little kids won't be exposed to titties? The adult world shouldn't be sanitized for kids. Why should my rights be violated in order to protect some little screaming, hyperactive animal?

Movies are art. Should the statue of David be forced to wear pants because some kid might see his cock? Should Bottocelli's Venus have her naughty bits whited out so little kids won't be exposed to titties? The adult world shouldn't be sanitized for kids. Why should my rights be violated in order to protect some little screaming, hyperactive animal?
you think the word motherfucker is art? Porn and cussing is not art it is just cheap cinematics appealing to the lowest denominator. I would never cover up David. But censoring out porn and cuss words said by animals isnt that tragic. I guess we can tell who was raised incorrectly. My children are not animals you piece of filth!!! :gundge: :rolleyes: Michealangello is far different than whatever shitola you watch probably the porno channel! Like I said get the dvd and hear all the nasties you like but dont call it art! It is cheap moviemaking at its worst!

you think the word motherfucker is art? Porn and cussing is not art it is just cheap cinematics appealing to the lowest denominator. I would never cover up David. But censoring out porn and cuss words said by animals isnt that tragic. I guess we can tell who was raised incorrectly. My children are not animals you piece of filth!!! :gundge: :rolleyes: Michealangello is far different than whatever shitola you watch probably the porno channel! Like I said get the dvd and hear all the nasties you like but dont call it art! It is cheap moviemaking at its worst!
Art depicts life. People use profanity in life. I guess you're right. One of us wasn't raised well enough to recognize that film is art.

Personally, I think adults are a bigger pain in the ass than children.

Personally, I think adults are a bigger pain in the ass than children.In the childcare and teaching professions, they have a saying: "The hardest part about educating the children is educating the parents." :D

Personally, I think adults are a bigger pain in the ass than children.
PEECH! YOU'RE BACK!!!!!!!! *does a happy dance*

And I agree. I find this whole discussion quite amusing. What people are complaining about are issues that are not caused by children themselves, but by their parents, or the people around them. ADULTS, not kids. Kids will try to get away with anything and everything. Adults are the ones who have to teach them limits.

Let me repeat your quote, because it bears repeating:

ADULTS ARE A BIGGER PAIN IN THE ASS THAN CHILDREN!!!!

Art depicts life. People use profanity in life. I guess you're right. One of us wasn't raised well enough to recognize that film is art.

I tend to believe films that resort to those nasty words are at the lowest quality level. More t and a than substance. By the way Im a college graduate who has studied some art and does art work- just because one labels something as a work of art (ie. taking a dump on the floor and say look a masterpiece) doesnt make it so.

PEECH! YOU'RE BACK!!!!!!!! *does a happy dance*

And I agree. I find this whole discussion quite amusing. What people are complaining about are issues that are not caused by children themselves, but by their parents, or the people around them. ADULTS, not kids. Kids will try to get away with anything and everything. Adults are the ones who have to teach them limits.

Let me repeat your quote, because it bears repeating:

ADULTS ARE A BIGGER PAIN IN THE ASS THAN CHILDREN!!!!


lol Sin.....good to be back. love your sig btw ;)

WHOO! Peech! :fluffle:

And I agree with the mommas. Kids > adults

WHOO! Peech! :fluffle:

And I agree with the mommas. Kids > adultsOh come on! I know you can add more to the debate than that. I saw the pictures you took during summer...

Oh come on! I know you can add more to the debate than that. I saw the pictures you took during summer...
Okay

I just love everyone. But kids more so, because you can teach them to love everyone. Adults are more stubborn

Those who are saying children should be killed should not call themselves Christains or any other faith as they are truly monsters.

Yes, and the German language refers to little girls as "it" (or "es" in German, which basically means "it"), too, which doesn't reflect too well on them.
*rolls eyes* Das Maedchen. Comes from Maed, I think, meaning maiden. "chen" is a suffix which is a diminiuative, like "ette" in French. It always takes a neuter noun. It has nothing to do with views. That being cleared up, I'm not fond of children. I honestly can't stand being around them long, and find them grating on my patience. If someone wants to have kids, fine by me. Just don't expect me to think that they're little bundles of joy, as well.

Those who are saying children should be killed should not call themselves Christains or any other faith as they are truly monsters.I don't think anyone here has said so so far unless they were joking.

*rolls eyes* Das Maedchen. Comes from Maed, I think, meaning maiden. "chen" is a suffix which is a diminiuative, like "ette" in French. It always takes a neuter noun. It has nothing to do with views. That being cleared up, I'm not fond of children. I honestly can't stand being around them long, and find them grating on my patience. If someone wants to have kids, fine by me. Just don't expect me to think that they're little bundles of joy, as well.Yeah, you're right. I hadn't thought about that. It probably comes from "Maid" (meid - closest translation would be damsel). 'chen is always neutral.

I always thought of the chen as sort of making it a term of endearment but then again mein deutsche ist sehr schlecht (sp).

I always thought of the chen as sort of making it a term of endearment but then again mein deutsche ist sehr schlecht (sp).It's hard to explain in English since there's no comparison. It basically means whatever word is treated with it becomes smaller and cuter...
When talking about the body parts of a small child (nose, arms, etc) a 'chen is usually used instead of the real word.

I've been serioulsy getting the impression that this is how children are viewed in Germany. From personal experience, children are considered a burden by society. There's been so many instances in my childhood where I was told to stop playing because I was too loud, didn't live in the vicinity (which wasn't true), or because I was "ruining the grass."
I just saw a report on how a day care center is being closed because the neighbors sued against the noise and it brought up all the instances where my neighbors told me to shut up. They're friggin children! Of course they're loud! GROW UP! :mad:

And then everybody wonders why Germany has less births per capita than every other European country...
Ah, children. One person's joy is another person's hindrance. Yet if you ask me, children are hated by so many because they compete with adults. How, may you ask? Call me weird, but there is a link, I believe, between birthrates and government spending.
Take the US, for example. According to the US Census Bureau, the baby boom occured after WWII, a period of intense government spending. Yet it stopped in 1965, and ever since then, fertility rates have reversed to below replacement. That was the same year of the Great Society program. It didn't go back up to 2.1 until 1990, in an era of cutthroat government cuts. It is slightly lower today, at around 2.02. And guess what's happening to government spending?
This correlation is not just in the US. Low fertility rates have been prevalent in Western Europe for longer, and so has government hand-outs. Fertility rates are also low in Eastern Europe, the fmr. Soviet Union, and much of East Asia. The latter have generous governments, while the former two had a culture of government dependence engrained into their livelihoods. Only China bucks the trend, which is due to force-backed controls.
This correlation is interesting, but I believe it is grounded in fact. Children are dependent on their parents for their resources. Parents have children to support them in old age, a preservation of legacy long after the parents die, and in primative societies, as free labor. In exchange, children are given food, shelter, education, and goodies from whatever disposable income a parent has.
Now let's see what's happening in modern societies. A nation has always been built around the family. Now, the parent has become the government. It's just that the children never need to grow up. The government supports them from cradle to grave, and new competitors, including the unborn, are not welcome. This is also why I believe abortion took off in the leftish 70s, and why levels were so low in the 90s.
As I have demonstrated, a parent produces what he or she needs, and no more. They don't want competitors, either. This is unsustainable, but as it is so new, there is no precedent to build from.
Oh, btw, an economy has a lot to do with it as well, if you haven't figured out. Industrial and post-industrial economies have les children because less labor is needed, due to greater efficiency. A parent is also unlikely to run his own business, unlike in an agricultural economy. There, it is better to create labor than to hire it. This, I believe, is also the basis for nepotism in the US known as the family business.

Yes, and the German language refers to little girls as "it" (or "es" in German, which basically means "it"), too, which doesn't reflect too well on them.

That isn't meant as an insult, it's just how the german language works. mostly a word has to end with an E to be a feminine word.

der kind = the child
die frau = the woman
das madchen = the young girl


Also, it seems kids have a way of cutting through the crap and making adults look lite total pillocks. maybe that's why?

i was an annoying kid. i was curipuos as to ho mechanical things worked. not happy with my lego, i'd take things apart. i figured how to use a screwdriver shortly after i was walking. i wan't good at it, but good enough at wreching things that in the space of 6 months, we'd gone through a TV, a washing maching, 2 stereos and 3 video machines. they went on brackets on the wall after that.

every child is annoying in some way.i find children make me feel happy, as being a kid had no real worries. worries were like this: "oh no, i dropped my biscuit." and were remeddied by a quick hug from mum. so, kids make me think happy times and broken videos.

der kind = the child
die frau = the woman
das madchen = the young girl
Das Kind... not "der" Kind. And Mädchen means girl, not young girl. ;)

I'll agree to this ONLY if you get men to squeeze these giants out of their orifices instead of women... :D
*shudders*

Bad parents infringe on my rights! I blame children!
How about blaming the bad parents?

I'm not overly fond of young kids, myself. That changes once they reach the age of, say, 6-8 years. Once they have the mental capacity to follow a normal conversation, my subconscience recognises them as fellow-humans. But that's just me.

Regarding the case given above, I think that whoever was there first should have been allowed to have their way. That's to say if the nusery was there first, it should have been allowed to stay, as the other residents knew what they were in for when moving there.
If the residents were there before, why didn't they oppose the nusery before it was built/moved in there and avoided the trouble in the first place?

YOure right..that daycare should be next to a liquor store or porno store. The daycares generally only operate from 6 am to 530 pm and the residents have plenty of quiet hours they need to go straight to hell.


Yep, so I'll see you there?!!

I think that a lot of older German people just have a noise problem. They hanker for absolute peace and quiet, something their southern European counterparts would never think of. A couple of years ago, my wife had a really stubborn chest infection, one of our neighbours complained about the coughing! He slipped anonymous letters into our letterbox. Unfortunately for him, I was working freelance at the time and worked from home mostly. That gave me ample opportunity to work on my singing and e-guitar playing skills.

In that same block of flats the play area (which new blocks need to provide when built) was left to rot. When I once asked about that at the owners' meeting they all said that it should be left to rot so children won't play there and it becomes a quieter area.

Shame I leave my window open when singing and playing guitar ;)

Well...I don't like children. At all. I don't like to talk with them, since they seldom have anything interesting to say. Though admittedly not all adults are interested in international politics and history either. Many kids are loud, have bad manners and I just don't like 'em (this includes the ones I generally meet where I live). My current life-plan includes no kids, ever, and I'm happy I live with a girl who shares that view with me.

And please...no crap that I'm lucky my parents didn't think the way I do thus not giving birth to me. Had I never have existed I wouldn't miss life anyway. Those of us who wants kids should get some and those who don't shouldn't. Luckily it's a choice...contrary to death and taxes :D
About the kindergarten (or whatever it was) shutting down because it produced excessive noise...good. I wouldn't want traffic noise irritating me on the days, neither do I want noisy kids to do it. Or moronic neighburs who manage to get heard through appartment walls. the fact it was kids who made the disturbing noise is totally irrelevant, the only relevance was that it was noise that disturbed the folks living near the place. Though it begs the question what idiot city planner put the kindergarten in such a unsuitable place.

Though it begs the question what idiot city planner put the kindergarten in such a unsuitable place.
Where I live practically all kindergartens are in residential areas. I'll move to a street where there is one. I knew that when I bought the place, so I can't and won't complain.

As long as they don't build them next to old folks homes ...