NationStates Jolt Archive

Why is it that Christianity is criticized so much in these forums, but never other religions? What do you personally have against Christianity?

Because the countries that most of the people here are from have Christianity as the largest religion in general. Ergo, most of the religious assholes they encounter will be Christians. In India, Hindus tend to be criticized, for example.

Nothing, it's just the one that is most prevalent on the forum and in western society as a whole. If it was a forum dominatd by Muslims and atheists instead of Christians and Atheists it would be different.

Great answers people... note the sarcasm. I'd love to tell you, but as a Catholic Christian, I've been wondering some of the same things. Most of my guesses would be seen as flaming and get me in trouble so I won't go there.

Islam gets its fair share, too. Rightfully so.

But here's a little clue: Most people here are from the West or Western style countries. Christianity is the dominant religion in most of these countries. Put two and two together.

A lot of people who call themselves "Christians" aren't really Christians but rather hate-filled assholes who want to hide behind religion and pretend it justifies their ignoramous intentions and their only joy is taking delight in making all the real Christians look bad.

A lot of people who call themselves "Christians" aren't really Christians but rather hate-filled assholes who want to hide behind religion and pretend it justifies their ignoramous intentions and their only joy is taking delight in making all the real Christians look bad.

Doesn't seem to leave many "real Christians" left then, does it? ;)

Doesn't seem to leave many "real Christians" left then, does it? ;)

Unfortunately, no. But I like the fact that I'm one of the few, one of the proud. :p

;)

Why is it that Christianity is criticized so much in these forums, but never other religions? What do you personally have against Christianity?Christianity gets criticized so much because it's the biggest and because it's predominant in the US, which is the most influential country in the world.
My personal issues "against" Christianity is that it can bring out the worst in people. The opposite is also true.

My problem is that it's a cult based around a guy who said and did great things, but whose modern practicioners distort and bastardize those same teachings to suit their own selfish and corrupt whims. I grew up Catholic, though I did get better, and all that the church ever did for me was teach me to be ashamed of myself, my body, my thoughts, and my individuality.

God is DEAD to me...

God is DEAD to me...Nietzsche is DEAD to me...

Nietzsche is DEAD to me...

That's nice, but actually Nietzsche is dead to everyone, having passed away some years ago...

Was that meant as some kind of backhanded insult, or some other kind of witless quip? Cuz if it was, it fell short.

Why is it that Christianity is criticized so much in these forums, but never other religions? What do you personally have against Christianity?
Honestly? Because Christians give me the best material.

Seriously, Christians are the funniest and the most ridiculous of any of the religious groups I encounter. Christians have Pat Robertson, James Dobson, and the entire Bible Belt going for them...you just can't top those acts. And don't even get me started on the Catholic Church.

When the Buddhists get off their butts and start doing nutty things like pushing for creationism to be taught in science classes, then I'll rip on them. When the Jews claim that saying "Happy Holidays" (rather than Happy Hanukah) is an example of Jews being oppressed, then I'll rip on the Jews. When the Muslims decorate their lawns with glowing fiberglass icons of Allah, I'll go to town. When Hindus tell me that I can't get married legally because their god think's I'm icky, then I will start in on the Hindus.

Until then, Christians will just have to enjoy their status as the Squeekiest Wheel, and they'll have to take all the grease I have to dish out.

Nietzsche is DEAD to me...
But the difference is that Nietzsche's followers know he's dead.

That's nice, but actually Nietzsche is dead to everyone, having passed away some years ago...

Was that meant as some kind of backhanded insult, or some other kind of witless quip? Cuz if it was, it fell short.Nah, it's just something I say whenever anyone rips out the good ol' "God is dead" quote. ;)

When the Muslims decorate their lawns with glowing fiberglass icons of Allah, I'll go to town.
Ah, but they'd never do that. Unlike Christians, they take the ten commandments seriously. :D

But the difference is that Nietzsche's followers know he's dead.

Now, let's nitpick this. When one says "God is dead", does one mean "The ideal of God is dead [or isn't necessary]" or "God, once alive, is now dead"? If we take it to mean the first meaning, then the backhanded remark "Nietzsche is dead" would also mean "The ideal of Nietzsche is dead [or isn't necessary]." If we take the latter, it would imply that you accept that an immortal being was once alive yet died, imposing an illogical fallacy, but that would also mean that "Nietzsche is dead" would just mean "Nietzsche, once alive, is now dead," which is pretty useless and moot.

Yay for nitpicking.

Ah, but they'd never do that. Unlike Christians, they take the ten commandments seriously. :D
Yeah, the Christians seem to ignore a lot of Commandments. They covet their asses off, build graven images and try to stick them all over public property and city buildings, keep the wrong freaking Sabbath Day, and have the highest divorce rates in America (which, according to the Bible, falls under "adultery," especially if they ever remarry). That's already down to a 60% success rate, and we haven't even gotten to the part about Christians who support the death penalty or the war...

Now, let's nitpick this. When one says "God is dead", does one mean "The ideal of God is dead [or isn't necessary]" or "God, once alive, is now dead"? If we take it to mean the first meaning, then the backhanded remark "Nietzsche is dead" would also mean "The ideal of Nietzsche is dead [or isn't necessary]." If we take the latter, it would imply that you accept that an immortal being was once alive yet died, imposing an illogical fallacy, but that would also mean that "Nietzsche is dead" would just mean "Nietzsche, once alive, is now dead," which is pretty useless and moot.

Yay for nitpicking.

Well, personally, I'd say that at one time, in my early ignorace, I had faith. But, as I grew and started forming my own mind and opinions outside my parent's and preist's influence, the more I distanced myself from the cult, and the more I grew as a human being.

I generally take John Lennon's POV on the subject...

"Why on earth are we here? Surely not to live in pain and fear."

And, most of all, I despise anything that I have to "take on faith". Faith in a "higher power" has done nothing but nothing for me in my life. But, faith in myself has taken me to heights I had not thought possible before.

In essence "I am my own god!"

Yeah, the Christians seem to ignore a lot of Commandments. They covet their asses off, build graven images and try to stick them all over public property and city buildings, keep the wrong freaking Sabbath Day, and have the highest divorce rates in America (which, according to the Bible, falls under "adultery," especially if they ever remarry). That's already down to a 60% success rate, and we haven't even gotten to the part about Christians who support the death penalty or the war...You won't find one piece of islamic artwork that shows Mohammed's face. You'll find God depicted in the Sistine Chapel. Go figure. (As for coveting, I think it only mentions wives and oxen, so I guess money is ok :D )
You might like Europe more. At least in Germany, Christians learned to be nice the hard way. There's nothing like living under civil war waged by pillaging mercenaries for 30 years in the name of religion only to see the Holy Roman Empire collapse to make people think that proper behavior and not religion is what makes a good person.

Well, personally, I'd say that at one time, in my early ignorace, I had faith. But, as I grew and started forming my own mind and opinions outside my parent's and preist's influence, the more I distanced myself from the cult, and the more I grew as a human being.

If your faith was not formed out of your own mind and opinions, then it was not faith at all.

I have nothing against Christianity. REAL Christianity, anyway. I'm a Unitarian Christian myself. I always make that distinction, because I don't wish to be confused with the "Christians" I DO have a problem with...the fundamental, foaming-at-the-mouth, bible-thumping, finger-pointing zealot Evangelical "Christians," whose God comes straight from the pages of a Nathaniel Hawthorne novel, full of hate, wrath, fire, brimstone, Hell, anger, and damnation. Full of punishment, pain, and misery. These people...who follow that God...seek to force their view of God, morality, and everything else, for that matter....onto people who do not share those views. People like me, for example.

MY God never taught people to judge, or to hate, or discriminate...He never taught prejudice, and He made it very clear it was not up to man to enforce God's laws...that was up to God. Render unto Ceasar...

If I have lived a life of sin, then it is between myself, and my God. My salvation lies that way. My sins have been paid for. This does not give me carte-blanche to just keep willfully sinning, but my God is also a merciful God, who knows our failings and shortcomings...and our limitations, as human beings. He shows kindness, love, mercy, forgiveness, and infinite, unconditional love. Not hatred, fire, Hell, damnation, wrath, pain and misery.

No one but me will ever have to answer for my sins. God doesn't work that way. Only once, did God ever ask someone to pay for sins not his own. And that was Jesus' entire purpose in coming to Earth. To take unto Himself the sins of makind...and to pay the price for those sins.

God knows I'm not perfect. There was only one all-perfect human that ever walked the Earth, and He died 2,000 years ago that I, and everyone else, might attain grace. So, if the evangelical, fundamentalist, foaming-at-the-mouth, Bible-thumping, finger-pointing zealots would just leave me and everyone else alone, Christianity would not have a bad name, and Christianity would not be so mocked by people who fail to understand the REAL Christianity...which has been drowned out by the loud shouts of the fundamentalists.

Remove the plank from your own eye, before worrying about the speck in your brother's eye, admonishes the Bible...yet the fundamentalists seem more worried about the speck in everyone else's eyes. THEY...and they alone...are to blame for the attitude many now have towards Christianity...those who have not SEEN the true Christianity. I know. I have seen. I was shown. It's why I converted from Agnosticism.

I still like to rattle the fundies, though, and demand them to PROVE God's existence, partly because it drives them batty...and secondly, because I know that their God is not MY God. MY God exists. He was written about in the Gospels and the New Testament. THEIR God was written about by Nathaniel Hawthorne.

I was SHOWN. I asked to see. Call me Doubting Thomas. But, the night came when I was shown. And I know that what I saw...what I was shown...was all I could handle...and it was enough to convince me. But, dammit, the fundamentalists are screwing up a beautiful, wonderful, loving faith with their dogmatic bullshit. for better than ten years, I turned away from and rejected God...and did so BECAUSE of the fundamentalists. They, in my case, were truly minions of Satan, because they were doing Satan's work in driving me futher and further from God and Jesus, causing me to hate them and curse them.

I hated the intolerance, the wrath, the anger, the vengefulness that God was always depicted as having. I wanted no part of God and Jesus, if that was the way they were going to be. I'm glad now that God so loved me as to show to me the REAL Christianity. And the REAL Christianity is about helping the poor, the downtrodden, the sick of heart, soul and spirit...the weak, the oppressed...the social outcasts, and the sinners. And it is about coming to people like that not with judgement, threats of fire, Hell, and brimstone...but with love, mercy, forgiveness, tolerance, and understanding.

The evangelicals are the modern-day equivalent of the Pharisees and Saducees. Their day will come. They will say unto Him, "Lord, Lord..." and He will say unto them, "turn away from me, for I knew you not."

In closing, I'd like to share this poem...I don't know the author.

When I say, "I am a Christian"
I'm not shouting "I'm clean livin'."
I'm whispering "I was lost,"
Now I'm found and forgiven.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I don't speak of this with pride.
I'm confessing that I stumble
And need CHRIST to be my guide.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not trying to be strong.
I'm professing that I'm weak
And need His strength to carry on.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not bragging of success.
I'm admitting I have failed
And need God to clean my mess.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I still feel the sting of pain,
I have my share of heartaches
So I call upon His name.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not holier than thou,
I'm just a simple sinner
Who recieved God's good grace, somehow.

Now, the moral here, evangelicals??

IT IS ALL IN YOUR APPROACH!! YOUR APPROACH SUCKS!! YOU TURN PEOPLE AWAY, AND TURN PEOPLE OFF WITH YOUR JUDGEMENT, INTOLERANCE, BIGOTRY, PREJUDICE AND DOGMA!!

Let GO of your hatred, your prejudice, your bigotry...I plead with you now...let go of it...and let the TRUE God show you...as He showed me.

(climbs down off of soapbox)

A lot of people who call themselves "Christians" aren't really Christians but rather hate-filled assholes who want to hide behind religion and pretend it justifies their ignoramous intentions and their only joy is taking delight in making all the real Christians look bad.

Well, I basically said the same thing, but a bit more delicately. But you have the basic idea.

My problem is that it's a cult based around a guy who said and did great things, but whose modern practicioners distort and bastardize those same teachings to suit their own selfish and corrupt whims. I grew up Catholic, though I did get better, and all that the church ever did for me was teach me to be ashamed of myself, my body, my thoughts, and my individuality.

God is DEAD to me...

I feel your pain. I, too, was raised Catholic. I'm sorry. Please...know that God does love you...and does not want you to be ashamed of yourself, or your body, or your thoughts...or your individuality. God cherishes and loves those things.
God cherishes and loves you, even as you say He is dead to you, He cries, wanting you to reach out to Him...the REAL God...who really does love you...and loves everything about you.

Whatever happens in your life, I hope that you know joy, peace, and happiness.

Honestly? Because Christians give me the best material.

Seriously, Christians are the funniest and the most ridiculous of any of the religious groups I encounter. Christians have Pat Robertson, James Dobson, and the entire Bible Belt going for them...you just can't top those acts. And don't even get me started on the Catholic Church.

When the Buddhists get off their butts and start doing nutty things like pushing for creationism to be taught in science classes, then I'll rip on them. When the Jews claim that saying "Happy Holidays" (rather than Happy Hanukah) is an example of Jews being oppressed, then I'll rip on the Jews. When the Muslims decorate their lawns with glowing fiberglass icons of Allah, I'll go to town. When Hindus tell me that I can't get married legally because their god think's I'm icky, then I will start in on the Hindus.

Until then, Christians will just have to enjoy their status as the Squeekiest Wheel, and they'll have to take all the grease I have to dish out.


Bottle...I love you. You know I do. But did you ever suspect I was a Christian? And believe me, I understand where the sentiment you carry comes from, for I once held it, too. Please read my rather lengthy post a couple above this one, and TG me sometime if you want to hear more. I can talk to you....you're family to me in a way my own flesh and blood can't be...and YOU know exactly what I mean by that!

*snippey*

I must say that was indeed applaud worthy. I can't agree more about being non-judgemental, all-loving, and fully supportive of our fellow man. As a Christian myself, I do my best to take this to heart, yet I also realize that I am a fallen creature, as is everyone else, and that I will screw up from time to time. And I praise God that every day is a new creation, and His joy comes with the morning. I'm with you all the way.

However, I do raise the point about your attitude toward the intolerant and discriminatory. I've seen on more than one occassion the words "hate" and "loathe", as well as several ill-boadings. I'd like to point to Matthew 5:43-48:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

And Mark 12:28-34:

One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

"Well said, teacher," the man replied. "You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."

When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.

Now, there are some, if not many, that I may completely disagree with on everything. There are even some whom I know wish nothing more than the Word of God to be supressed and all of His followers destroyed. However, I do my best not to harbor ill-will toward them. Again!, I don't claim to be perfect. I do try however, as He commands me to. Should everyone strive for perfection, drop their sinful burdens and pick up their crosses daily, the world would not have such hate and despisement.

I do commend you Lyric, for being so firmly rooted in where you stand.

EDIT: By the way, may I hug you, Lyric? Not out of pity or guilt, but because I want to reassure you that there is at least one conservative who loves ya. *hugs*

I must say that was indeed applaud worthy. I can't agree more about being non-judgemental, all-loving, and fully supportive of our fellow man. As a Christian myself, I do my best to take this to heart, yet I also realize that I am a fallen creature, as is everyone else, and that I will screw up from time to time. And I praise God that every day is a new creation, and His joy comes with the morning. I'm with you all the way.

However, I do raise the point about your attitude toward the intolerant and discriminatory. I've seen on more than one occassion the words "hate" and "loathe", as well as several ill-boadings. I'd like to point to Matthew 5:43-48:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

And Mark 12:28-34:

One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

"Well said, teacher," the man replied. "You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."

When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.

Now, there are some, if not many, that I may completely disagree with on everything. There are even some whom I know wish nothing more than the Word of God to be supressed and all of His followers destroyed. However, I do my best not to harbor ill-will toward them. Again!, I don't claim to be perfect. I do try however, as He commands me to. Should everyone strive for perfection, drop their sinful burdens and pick up their crosses daily, the world would not have such hate and despisement.

I do commend you Lyric, for being so firmly rooted in where you stand.

EDIT: By the way, may I hug you, Lyric? Not out of pity or guilt, but because I want to reassure you that there is at least one conservative who loves ya. *hugs*


I am humbly rubuked. But, I'm sorry, I'm NOT perfect, and I find it VERY DIFFICULT to love those who persecute me. You would, too, if you'd been persecuted as badly as I have been.

Yes, you can hug me.

Listen...for those who do not know this (and you have to probably be a newbie, or not frequent many threads of mine to NOT know this) but...I am a transsexual. I have known more horrible discrimination and persecution than most people, thank the good Lord, will EVER know.

In rotten economic times...MY PEOPLE are the first to be thrown on the economic shit-heap to starve. Fully 70 percent of my people, right now...are un- or under-employed. Really think about that before just saying "uh-huh" and going on...SEVEN IN TEN of us are un- or under-employed!! All because we happen to have been afflicted with a terrible condition known as Gender Intentity Disorder. I would not wish it on my worst enemy!! Have you ANY clue how horrible it feels, to every day feel like an alien in your own body...to feel trapped in the wrong body??

In good economic times...we are always the LAST to be taken off the economic shit-heap. One of the main reasons I was able to BE steadily employed in the late 90's is because the economic times were so good! Now, they suck, and I blame George Bush and the conservative agenda for the downturn in the economy, and thus, my consignment to the economic shit-heap.

If persecution didn't cause me to lose everything I value, I might feel differently. But I've no capacity to love those who have robbed me of my pride...my ability to live on my own. I had to move back home with my mom, at the age of 34, a complete and total failure at life, and lose my pride, independence, and freedom...because of conservative policies designed to KEEP me downtrodden and miserable.

Because there are plenty of those so-called Christians out there who are Hell-bent on punishing me for what I did...to my own body! I hurt no one with what I did...I committed no crime by doing it...yet, I am treated even worse than a criminal by these people. How can I love those who have wronged me that badly?

I know...Jesus even loved the people who nailed Him to that cross...He even loved the Roman Centurion who jabbed the spear in His side! But i'm not the Second Coming. I'm not as strong, or as pure, or as good as Jesus. Though I really TRY...I'm sorry, but I can find nothing but bitterness inside me, against those who have persecuted me...and brought me to this point in my life.

All because THEY have a hangup about being around a "freak." Yeah, well, I might damn well be a "freak" in some people's books, but I tell you that I am human, too, and I deserve to be treated with the same level of dignity and respect as any other human being. Yet many would deny my right to a claim on humanity. To them, I'm human garbage.

Then again, I guess the Book does say the meek shall inherit....

But damn, I wish it didn't have to be so HARD....

I can't go on...this is just too painfuil for me....all I have been put through...and much of it was "justified" in the name of that Nathaniel Hawthorne inspired bastardization of our Lord and Savior....

As a Catholic, I don't rightly care what others think. We've built ourselves into the world's mightiest religion by way of mountains of corpses and rivers of blood left by inquisitions and the suppression of heathens. We are the Earthly agents of the Most High God. We do not back down from challenges by heretics.

note: This is from Hellsing and Crossfire by Kohta Hirano, before you get all antsy:)

I am humbly rubuked. But, I'm sorry, I'm NOT perfect, and I find it VERY DIFFICULT to love those who persecute me. You would, too, if you'd been persecuted as badly as I have been.

Yes, you can hug me.

Listen...for those who do not know this (and you have to probably be a newbie, or not frequent many threads of mine to NOT know this) but...I am a transsexual. I have known more horrible discrimination and persecution than most people, thank the good Lord, will EVER know.

In rotten economic times...MY PEOPLE are the first to be thrown on the economic shit-heap to starve. Fully 70 percent of my people, right now...are un- or under-employed. Really think about that before just saying "uh-huh" and going on...SEVEN IN TEN of us are un- or under-employed!! All because we happen to have been afflicted with a terrible condition known as Gender Intentity Disorder. I would not wish it on my worst enemy!! Have you ANY clue how horrible it feels, to every day feel like an alien in your own body...to feel trapped in the wrong body??

In good economic times...we are always the LAST to be taken off the economic shit-heap. One of the main reasons I was able to BE steadily employed in the late 90's is because the economic times were so good! Now, they suck, and I blame George Bush and the conservative agenda for the downturn in the economy, and thus, my consignment to the economic shit-heap.

If persecution didn't cause me to lose everything I value, I might feel differently. But I've no capacity to love those who have robbed me of my pride...my ability to live on my own. I had to move back home with my mom, at the age of 34, a complete and total failure at life, and lose my pride, independence, and freedom...because of conservative policies designed to KEEP me downtrodden and miserable.

Because there are plenty of those so-called Christians out there who are Hell-bent on punishing me for what I did...to my own body! I hurt no one with what I did...I committed no crime by doing it...yet, I am treated even worse than a criminal by these people. How can I love those who have wronged me that badly?

I know...Jesus even loved the people who nailed Him to that cross...He even loved the Roman Centurion who jabbed the spear in His side! But i'm not the Second Coming. I'm not as strong, or as pure, or as good as Jesus. Though I really TRY...I'm sorry, but I can find nothing but bitterness inside me, against those who have persecuted me...and brought me to this point in my life.

All because THEY have a hangup about being around a "freak." Yeah, well, I might damn well be a "freak" in some people's books, but I tell you that I am human, too, and I deserve to be treated with the same level of dignity and respect as any other human being. Yet many would deny my right to a claim on humanity. To them, I'm human garbage.

Then again, I guess the Book does say the meek shall inherit....

But damn, I wish it didn't have to be so HARD....

I can't go on...this is just too painfuil for me....all I have been put through...and much of it was "justified" in the name of that Nathaniel Hawthorne inspired bastardization of our Lord and Savior....

First off, yay for hugs! :)

But yeah, I won't claim to know what kinds of persecution you suffer through. I can't sympathize, but I can empathize. Christ said that all of his flock would be persecuted under the enemy and his forces. Unfortunately, the enemy has infiltrated most every political party and agenda under the sun. I've had experiences of persecution because of what I stand for, especially when I was on a summer mission trip in Guatemala. Very heavy down there. We as Christians usually have it good in the U.S., and take it for granted. I try not to though.

I can't say that I'll be in politics actively, although I do have a strange tug toward it. Maybe once I'm done with my role as counselor I might find myself planted in politics in order to stand up for those like you and I--those who share common beliefs in God and His Truth. Perhaps not impose upon others, but make sure they don't impose upon us. And of course I'll be trying to enforce equality--all are equal under God dontchaknow--and make discrimination intolerable. This would also fall under GLBTs, and I don't even agree with their lifestyles! (But do note that we're to uphold those who are unequally yoked with us, as it is only God who may judge man.)

So yeah. It's still a far away dream, but it may one day come and bite me in the rear.

It will continue to be hard for us, and, with how you are and the way you live, even harder for you. But I do wish to leave you with this small comfort (and happens to be my most favorite chapter in the entire Bible):

He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High
will rest in the shadow of the Almighty.
I will say of the LORD, "He is my refuge and my fortress,
my God, in whom I trust."

Surely He will save you from the fowler's snare
and from the deadly pestilence.
He will cover you with His feathers,
and under His wings you will find refuge;
His faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.
You will not fear the terror of night,
nor the arrow that flies by day,
nor the pestilence that stalks in the darkness,
nor the plague that destroys at midday.
A thousand may fall at your side,
ten thousand at your right hand,
but it will not come near you.
You will only observe with your eyes
and see the punishment of the wicked.

If you make the Most High your dwelling --
even the LORD, who is my refuge --
then no harm will befall you,
no disaster will come near your tent.
For He will command His angels concerning you
to guard you in all your ways;
they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.
You will tread upon the lion and the cobra;
you will trample the great lion and the serpent.

"Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him;
I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name.
He will call upon me, and I will answer him;
I will be with him in trouble,
I will deliver him and honor him.
With long life will I satisfy him
and show him my salvation."

Bless you, Lyric. May this promise of the Lord uplift you and keep you secure in the knowledge that God is indeed with you, and that you are loved.

Why is it that Christianity is criticized so much in these forums, but never other religions? What do you personally have against Christianity?
It is the most intrusive into my life and decisions
As well as having a harsh past with it
(mostly the former though)

First off, yay for hugs! :)

But yeah, I won't claim to know what kinds of persecution you suffer through. I can't sympathize, but I can empathize. Christ said that all of his flock would be persecuted under the enemy and his forces. Unfortunately, the enemy has infiltrated most every political party and agenda under the sun. I've had experiences of persecution because of what I stand for, especially when I was on a summer mission trip in Guatemala. Very heavy down there.

This is weird, but I have a question for you...
My mother's church had a group that recently (this summer) went on a mission to Guatemala! wouldn't it be way too wierd if it turned out that you and I already know each other and don't know it?

Would you, by any chance, happen to live anywhere near the Pocono Mountains of Northeastern Pennsylvania??

You wouldn't by any chance, happen to go to a church in Wind Gap, Pennsylvania, wouldya?

I know the name of the church, but I'm withholding it to see if YOU know it, too...it would be way to weird if we know each other in real life....and didn't know it!

This is weird, but I have a question for you...
My mother's church had a group that recently (this summer) went on a mission to Guatemala! wouldn't it be way too wierd if it turned out that you and I already know each other and don't know it?

Would you, by any chance, happen to live anywhere near the Pocono Mountains of Northeastern Pennsylvania??

You wouldn't by any chance, happen to go to a church in Wind Gap, Pennsylvania, wouldya?

I know the name of the church, but I'm withholding it to see if YOU know it, too...it would be way to weird if we know each other in real life....and didn't know it!

I can't say that I do, unfortunately, even though I'd die to move to Pennsylvania, rather than stay in Texas (although dying would probably make the move rather moot :p). I went to Guatemala the summer of 2001, so it wasn't all too recent.

But it feels like we know each other already, eh? Strange feelings, these things.

Honestly? Because Christians give me the best material.

Seriously, Christians are the funniest and the most ridiculous of any of the religious groups I encounter. Christians have Pat Robertson, James Dobson, and the entire Bible Belt going for them...you just can't top those acts. And don't even get me started on the Catholic Church.

When the Buddhists get off their butts and start doing nutty things like pushing for creationism to be taught in science classes, then I'll rip on them. When the Jews claim that saying "Happy Holidays" (rather than Happy Hanukah) is an example of Jews being oppressed, then I'll rip on the Jews. When the Muslims decorate their lawns with glowing fiberglass icons of Allah, I'll go to town. When Hindus tell me that I can't get married legally because their god think's I'm icky, then I will start in on the Hindus.

Until then, Christians will just have to enjoy their status as the Squeekiest Wheel, and they'll have to take all the grease I have to dish out.

Well said. If I didn't have to hear their lame compalints, constant whining, and pseudoscientific bullshit so often, I wouldn't have any less respect for them than I do any other wacky group.

I can't say that I do, unfortunately, even though I'd die to move to Pennsylvania, rather than stay in Texas (although dying would probably make the move rather moot :p). I went to Guatemala the summer of 2001, so it wasn't all too recent.

But it feels like we know each other already, eh? Strange feelings, these things.

Well, if you DID come to Pennsylvania, I bet I could show you a church where you might feel at home. I, myself, do not attend that church, as I am a Unitarian Christian, I attend a Unitarian Universalist Church. We have a small group of Christians at that church. christians like me, who have not really been comfortable in standard Christian churches, because of the overwhelming presence of fundamentalists, even in the best of Christian churches.

But, my mom goes to the church I'm thinking of. They are a little more demonstrative than I'm comfortable with...it always seems to me as if they are there more to be seen by others...than to really just praise God...then, that could just be my own biases kicking in. But even the Bible tells us to pray in the closet, not to make a big issue of it...to be seen by others.

I think a lot of Christians DO want to be seen by others. and for all the wrong reasons. But that's another topic.

I actually lived in Texas until March of this year, when economics forced me to move back home with my mom, in Pennsylvania. I lived in South Austin.

I'd love to have been able to stay in Texas...I loved Austin...wonderful town...but, it apparently wasn't meant to be, God had His reasons for bringing me up here, though He has yet to make those reasons very clear to me....

In a way, I sorta feel like the modern-day Job...because I literally have had almost everything I value taken from me. I'm left only with my mom, my dog, and what meager possessions I was able to cart up with me to Pennsylvania from Texas. And it wasn't much, either.

Anyway...I appreciate the dialogue to this point. I wish there were more TRUE christians out there, so that the stinkin' thinkin' of the hate-mongers would not conspire to ruin a good religion, and turn so many off.

Incidentally, a web site you may be interested in looking at is...

http://www.christianalliance.org

Take care of yourself down there in Texas, try not to get too hot!! I all too well remember how bad the dog days in July and august can get down in Texas!

Honestly? Because Christians give me the best material.

Seriously, Christians are the funniest and the most ridiculous of any of the religious groups I encounter. Christians have Pat Robertson, James Dobson, and the entire Bible Belt going for them...you just can't top those acts. And don't even get me started on the Catholic Church.

When the Buddhists get off their butts and start doing nutty things like pushing for creationism to be taught in science classes, then I'll rip on them. When the Jews claim that saying "Happy Holidays" (rather than Happy Hanukah) is an example of Jews being oppressed, then I'll rip on the Jews. When the Muslims decorate their lawns with glowing fiberglass icons of Allah, I'll go to town. When Hindus tell me that I can't get married legally because their god think's I'm icky, then I will start in on the Hindus.

Until then, Christians will just have to enjoy their status as the Squeekiest Wheel, and they'll have to take all the grease I have to dish out.

Agreed :p

Why do you feel the need to criticize someone? Just because Christianity is the most popular doesn't mean it deserves to be criticized. You say that Christians are hypocrites, but so is everyone else. Being a Christian means we're aware of our fallen nature; even if we cannot always do what is right. At least we try.
Please try not to be so selfish blaming other people for your own issues; have a heart and accept the responsibility for your actions.
Also, individual actions of some Christians that you may have a problem with are not representative of all Christians.

Why is it that Christianity is criticized so much in these forums, but never other religions?
Well, partially because Christians are the ones in the majority in the countries from which most of this forum's denizens hail, which makes them a greater perceived threat. Partially because the extremists are quite well-known, and some people assume the whole group is like them. And partly because conservative Christian groups are an actual threat to the freedom of some people.

If Hindus, Muslims, Zen Buddhists, or anybody else were proposing banning gay marriage, putting religion into the state, and such, I know I would be just as against them, and I would think many others would be too. I don't think it's a 'Atheists just want to attack all Christians!' thing like some people assert.

EDIT: Also note that most of the people to whom you refer are not truly anti-Christian. There aren't a whole lot of people saying "Christians suck and Jesus is stupid!", and they certainly aren't in the majority. Most people are criticizing the actions of some Christian groups (Catholic church, Focus on the Family, etc.), not saying "I hate Christians!"

The thing about judging is that we Christians have leave to judge our brothers in Christ. (KJV) 1 Corinthians 5:12-13: "For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth."

I believe we can condemn the actions of non-Christians, if not the actual person. Also, about being transsexual, here is 1 Corinthians 6:19-20: "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

The thing about judging is that we Christians have leave to judge our brothers in Christ. (KJV) 1 Corinthians 5:12-13: "For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth."

I believe we can condemn the actions of non-Christians, if not the actual person. Also, about being transsexual, here is 1 Corinthians 6:19-20: "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

You dare condemn me? If anything, I just gave "the temple" a little facelift. what the hell is so wrong with that? Plenty of other people have plastic surgery, and you don't condemn them. So how fucking DARE you condemn me?!?!

ON EDIT: And no, you do NOT have "leave" to judge anyone else. Judge not lest ye be judged! Remember THAT one? Or how about the admonishion to worry about the plank in your own eye before worrying about the speck in your brother's eye?

If you are without sin, cast the first stone. If not, how about a nice, warm glass of STFU?

ON EDIT AGAIN:
Here'sx a poem a friend of mine wrote. Read it. Maybe you will LEARN something from it. I think it was directed at just such people as yourself.

Judgement

I lived my life full of the Lord, at least that's what I thought
I taught my kids how to live so they would suffer naught.
I fell to my knees and fasted and I prayed
Took my family and friends to church on Sabbath day

I thought myself a soldier in the army of Our Lord
And knew I'd be rewarded once He tallied the score
Yet men had misinterpreted the Word of Our Father
And led me to despise what I JUDGED to be fodder.
The abortionists, the wretched, the lesbians and gays
Yea even the transsexuals, why surely they would PAY!!

I didn't know it then but I'd took Jesus' place
I had forgotten Our Father's Gift of Grace
My heart remain unchanged throughout my life
Outwardly benevolent, yet inward hid a knife

At last it was my time to go and ashes turned to dust
Then I heard the trumpet sound, Christ came back as he must
The book of life he read from, and the names I had despised
Suprisingly were written there and they were given LIFE
As the last one standing I stood before our Lord
He said "I cannot find your name here son, die by your own sword"

ON EDIT ONE FINAL TIME:
Incidentally, not that it is ANY of your fucking business, but I happen to be CELIBATE, too. And by choice, I might add. I am, quite frankly, asexual, and always have been. So I'm no threat to you or anyone else, so how about you get over your little hangup?

It is "Christians" like YOU...that judge other people...that give Christianity a bad name. You'll not turn me away from my God though, because your God and my God obviously are not the same. Mine believes in love, mercy, forgiveness, tolerance, understanding, joy....yours obviously only believes in judgement and wrath and hatred. I can tell from the words you wrote.

Incidentally, here's another little Bible quote that you can shove in your pipe and smoke:
1John 3:15 - whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer, and ye know no murderer hath eternal life abiding within him.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

How DARE you judge me?

You dare condemn me? If anything, I just gave "the temple" a little facelift. what the hell is so wrong with that? Plenty of other people have plastic surgery, and you don't condemn them. So how fucking DARE you condemn me?!?!
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He said "I cannot find your name here son, die by your own sword"[/b]

May I steal this? was rather nice. The poem that is.

May I steal this? was rather nice. The poem that is.

Well, I did not author it.
You may reprint it only if you credit the original author, Serenity P. Abler.

I don't want to live and act as if I believe in Christian superstition yet those who believe in Christianity either push to make its views law or I am simply expected to behave as if all of Christian nonsense is real.

You dare condemn me? If anything, I just gave "the temple" a little facelift. what the hell is so wrong with that? Plenty of other people have plastic surgery, and you don't condemn them. So how fucking DARE you condemn me?!?!

ON EDIT: And no, you do NOT have "leave" to judge anyone else. Judge not lest ye be judged! Remember THAT one? Or how about the admonishion to worry about the plank in your own eye before worrying about the speck in your brother's eye?

*snip*

How DARE you judge me?

I am truly saddened. Did I appear as a finger-pointing fundamental evangelist who shouts fire and brimstone? If so, I am sorry. And with regard to transsexuallity, I had absolutely no idea to what degree it was. Please forgive me.

The thing about judging is that we Christians have leave to judge our brothers in Christ. (KJV) 1 Corinthians 5:12-13: "For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth."

I believe we can condemn the actions of non-Christians, if not the actual person. Also, about being transsexual, here is 1 Corinthians 6:19-20: "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
You can think of us what you want … but you try to FORCE those judgments on me you better not come alone

You can think of us what you want … but you try to FORCE those judgments on me you better not come alone

I'm not going to force them on anybody.

I am truly saddened. Did I appear as a finger-pointing fundamental evangelist who shouts fire and brimstone? If so, I am sorry. And with regard to transsexuallity, I had absolutely no idea to what degree it was. Please forgive me.


Yes...you did appear so! Why else do you think you got such an angry response from me?

You apology accepted, at least for now. We'll see, with future postings of yours, if your apology was truly heartfelt.

As to my transsexuality, what I will say, here and now, is that...not a day goes by that I don't thank the good Lord that more people do not know the tortured existence I lived through, day after day after day...until the liberating moment of my surgery.

Thank God that more people do not know what agony it is to suffer from Gender Identity Disorder.

Thank God more people do not have to go through what I STILL go through, every day...being discriminated against in employment, denied a livelihood, forced now to live back home with my mom, because no one will give me a job, because it's perfectly legal, in most places to discriminate against transsexuals...and even in places where it's illegal, employers can find plenty of ways to discriminate!

SO...after all that, and that is just the tip of the iceberg....if any moralistic, self-righteous, holier-than-thou, evangelical ASSHOLE wants to walk a mile in my shoes...THEN THEY MAY JUDGE ME!! Until then, they can have a nice warm glass of STFU.