NationStates Jolt Archive

By this I mean universally admired and brilliant public servants of good humor. It seems that there are no American politicians left that half the country doesn't hate. What's the deal and how can we climb ourselves out of this political bog?

Because all the people who try to be him actaully die from the lightning blast. Either that or there's one tiny issue he/she believes in that builds resentment in the masses. No one can agree with everyone on everything all the time, we all should have learned that from these forums.

In other words, there's no way that anyone can satisfy everyone's idea of what a perfect social servant would be.

Meh, our need to understand, create, and explore (etc.) is totally supressed and over ridden by the majority (and their media...)

People just aren't bred (raised...) to try and make things better, instead they are bred to fight for previously installed ideas... and hate/defeat their opposers. (not factoring in their ability or lack of ability to understand them O.o)

'Great' people only come along every so often, "the gap between say Plato or Nietzsche and the average human is greater than the gap between that chimpanzee and the average human." - Louis Mackey

I think that too many people are out just looking to find something they hate about those who think differently from themselves. I don't see a lot of respect for people who express their views. I highly doubt that every single American agreed with everything that Ben Franklin believed. What they had was respect. What they had was a willingness to work together rather than tear each other apart. As things are now, I think that the only way to get respect from someone who thinks differently is to be outside of politics and on a very lowdown level. By this I mean someone who is willing to give up having a big paycheck to actually run a program for poor inner city kids or who will pay a living wage to employees. I also have a strong feeling that the media injures the reputations of decent people quite frequently.

So, how do we start to fix it?

So, how do we start to fix it?

The answer is both easy and difficult. As individuals, we can strive to be more respectful of others and their opinions. We can try simply agreeing to disagree. We can be examples for others. We can each strive to be 'modern Ben Franklins.' On the flip side of this, is getting a good example to be both seen and emulated. Getting the media to stop sensationalizing and promoting libel.

To be honest, I don't know how to really get it to happen. Being as young as I am, I think I may be a bit idealistic. Just how much so I've yet to discover. All I can really say is that I'm gonna give it my best shot and see what happens.

So, how do we start to fix it?
Good questions, I think if we promote the breeding of those with a high IQ (being that a large part of IQ relies on genetics)
and also raise people to function on a higher level (mentally)...mostly by stimulating them and allowing as little bias as possible...
maybe some good nutrition might help XD

I bet Ben Franklin had plenty of people who hated him during his lifetime.

I bet Ben Franklin had plenty of people who hated him during his lifetime.

Yes, like his son, for one.

Not sure if this means anything, but Ben Franklin was teh biggest pimp in the Continental Congress.

I don't like Ben Franklin :mad:

Because all the people who try to be him actaully die from the lightning blast.

Hehehe. That made me laugh.

lol. He was apparently quite the ladies' man. When he was amabassador to France, the French were fascinated with the romantic image of Americans as the "noble savage". Franklin used to dress in pelts and frontier garb to play up to this and get female attention.

Because politics is now a career choice.

Because political parties are big business. They market themselves for complete brand loyalty, much like major sports teams. So the way it turns out, you have one group of Red Sox fans and one group of Yankees fans. Tom Delay is Jason Giambi, while Ted Kennedy is Manny Ramirez.

I bet Ben Franklin had plenty of people who hated him during his lifetime.

True, but the people who loved him both in America and Europe were far far far in the majority. He was an international celebrity.

No one, of course, no matter how great, has no detractors.

Well, you also have to take into account that the only national office he held was Postmaster General, not exactly a position that requires one to take a lot of unpopular and difficult stands. I bet in Pennsylvania where he was a state Assemblyman you would have found plenty of detractors.

By this I mean universally admired and brilliant public servants of good humor. It seems that there are no American politicians left that half the country doesn't hate. What's the deal and how can we climb ourselves out of this political bog?

Because, geez, none of what they said would be tolerated today.

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/5980/bumpj1mn1ni.th.gif (http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bumpj1mn1ni.gif)

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/4964/bumpr2bq4ky.th.gif (http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bumpr2bq4ky.gif)

You will find very few people like the founding fathers-Ronald Reagan was one of the few since then.

Because politics is now a career choice.

Because political parties are big business. They market themselves for complete brand loyalty, much like major sports teams. So the way it turns out, you have one group of Red Sox fans and one group of Yankees fans. Tom Delay is Jason Giambi, while Ted Kennedy is Manny Ramirez.
Not everyone is a Yankees or Red Sox fan, no matter what people from New York and Boston think. And even the Devil Rays do better than the Libertarians.

Not everyone is a Yankees or Red Sox fan, no matter what people from New York and Boston think. And even the Devil Rays do better than the Libertarians.

There aren't quite 31 political parties, so I had to pick two teams.

And the Devil Rays could continuously throw out 14 year old soccer players to pitch and do better than the Libertarians.

By this I mean universally admired and brilliant public servants of good humor. It seems that there are no American politicians left that half the country doesn't hate. What's the deal and how can we climb ourselves out of this political bog?

Most men who are like Ben end up being disgusted with the system or to focused on their own business ventures. Ben wasn't a politican till circumstances made him the "go to guy", before then he was more like a journalist and political commentary.

Aside from that, no common man can just have his brilliance. It has to be inate.

Benjamin Franklin had many detractors, he was nicknamed "Dr. Doubleface" because of the discrepancy between his public personae and who he was outside of public view. The reason you percieve him to be such a widely loved and universally accepted figure is because the passage of time has buried all the negativity and left only the evidence of the great things he did.

You will find very few people like the founding fathers-Ronald Reagan was one of the few since then.

dude, i have problems with many of the founders, but i wouldn't go so far as to call them all incompetent war criminals with alzheimer's. that's just mean.

Well, you also have to take into account that the only national office he held was Postmaster General, not exactly a position that requires one to take a lot of unpopular and difficult stands. I bet in Pennsylvania where he was a state Assemblyman you would have found plenty of detractors.

I would say that Ambassador is a more prestigious post that Postmaster General.

I would say that Ambassador is a more prestigious post that Postmaster General.


To France, if Im not mistaken.....


I think the reason you dont see men of his kind, regardless of how history has beatified the man, is becuase of the lack of a common enemy.
In his day, it was a great thing to help guide a nation against the tyrrany of King George...

..These days were all too busy arguing about our own George, and wether or not he's a tyrrant.

Benjamin Franklin had many detractors, he was nicknamed "Dr. Doubleface" because of the discrepancy between his public personae and who he was outside of public view. The reason you percieve him to be such a widely loved and universally accepted figure is because the passage of time has buried all the negativity and left only the evidence of the great things he did.

You obviously need to learn more history. And take into context that the man was human and subject to human flaws.

Perhaps you should give us an example of Mr. Perfect? I'd very much like to hear who you believed was flawless.

You obviously need to learn more history. And take into context that the man was human and subject to human flaws.

Perhaps you should give us an example of Mr. Perfect? I'd very much like to hear who you believed was flawless.


dont bother...he'll probably say "Jesus".

You obviously need to learn more history. And take into context that the man was human and subject to human flaws.

Perhaps you should give us an example of Mr. Perfect? I'd very much like to hear who you believed was flawless.

You obviously need to learn more English and react to what I actually said rather than your weird interpetation. You just repeated the same thing I said then claimed I dont believe it. Obviously Benjamin Franklin was a human with flaws like all others, and he had his detractors like all politicians do. That was my point, and I find it difficult to understand why you would repeat my point while acting like I dont believe it.

You obviously need to learn more English and react to what I actually said rather than your weird interpetation. You just repeated the same thing I said then claimed I dont believe it. Obviously Benjamin Franklin was a human with flaws like all others, and he had his detractors like all politicians do. That was my point, and I find it difficult to understand why you would repeat my point while acting like I dont believe it.

Oh, I know english. I know english as well as I recognize statements stated in spite. Keep in mind this, people will always honor him as one of the greatest humans to ever exist historically.

And on the oppisite end, no one will honor you. You will be an afterthought in the minds of human achievement.

Edit: A correction. You won't even be a person that will be remembered after the death of your kin. Just another bundle of bones in the ground decaying.

Oh, I know english. I know english as well as I recognize statements stated in spite. Keep in mind this, people will always honor him as one of the greatest humans to ever exist historically.

And on the oppisite end, no one will honor you. You will be an afterthought in the minds of human achievement.

Edit: A correction. You won't even be a person that will be remembered after the death of your kin. Just another bundle of bones in the ground decaying.

Oops, I didnt realize Ben Franklin had family on this forum...my bad! I take that back, he wasnt known as Dr. Doubleface, the historians and biographers made that one up :rolleyes:

No man/woman is flawless, including Jesus. With the current (and we've had this problem forever it seems) media sounding like the National Enquirer, with news that is hardly the truth, any man's credibility is destroyed before he can be great. Ben Franklin's saving grace is that he is dead and no longer on the front pages of the rags where they can print more lies. In 1976 when America had it's 200th birthday, they made Ben Franklin out to be a great American, whether he was or not, who really cares, and any detractors was made to look unpatriotic. The same tactic was done for Ronald Reagan, and a few others, including JFK. Those that are deemed Great today are probably no more so than you or I, but their 15 minutes was given a bright spotlight in History, so bright that they live on as heroes, and anything bad about them was written out of the same books. Ben Franklin may just have a lot of family out there, you just never know. :)

All people are very flawed, but before the mass media, it was a lot harder to spread their minor flaws far and wide. Moreover, we herofied all of our founding fathers in the 19th and 20th centuries and its difficult to overcome that sentiment.

There are lots of people today who are better than Franklin; they just happen to be born in the wrong time to get his level of worship.

By this I mean universally admired and brilliant public servants of good humor. It seems that there are no American politicians left that half the country doesn't hate. What's the deal and how can we climb ourselves out of this political bog?


Because the Euro's have taken over!!!!! :p

All people are very flawed, but before the mass media, it was a lot harder to spread their minor flaws far and wide. Moreover, we herofied all of our founding fathers in the 19th and 20th centuries and its difficult to overcome that sentiment.

There are lots of people today who are better than Franklin; they just happen to be born in the wrong time to get his level of worship.

I think this is it in a nutshell. These days, we hate a hero. We see people out there like Mother Theresa or Ghandi and we can't wait to hear that they secretly torture children or us parakeets as ping pong balls. Media of the past seemed to love a hero and now the media loves a villian. Given the choice of talking about a man who runs into a burning builiding and saves five children or a priest who molested them, they'll choose the priest every time. And aren't they just a reflection of us?

I'm not sure what the cause is, really. Have we become so insecure in our own greatness that we can't stand to see it in others? Don't we need people to look up to and strive to be like anymore? Would it be so horrible to have a president whose sex life and personal habits were not public knowledge? Would it be so horrible to not know about every athelete or political leader that cheats or drinks or does drugs? Why can't we just have some heroes?

I would say that Ambassador is a more prestigious post that Postmaster General.
Well, yeah, but same applies. If anything, it's more insulated from domestic enemies because most people at home wouldn't even know what he was doing there.

I'm not sure what the cause is, really. Have we become so insecure in our own greatness that we can't stand to see it in others? Don't we need people to look up to and strive to be like anymore? Would it be so horrible to have a president whose sex life and personal habits were not public knowledge? Would it be so horrible to not know about every athelete or political leader that cheats or drinks or does drugs? Why can't we just have some heroes?
I think it comes down to the fact that we have seen so many heroes let us down, we are just waiting for the next one to do so.

To be honest, we don't need heroes. The idea makes a mockery of how complicated the world is. If someone does the right thing when it's hard, they should be applauded for it, but it certainly doesn't mean that they can be expected to make all the right choices.

I think it comes down to the fact that we have seen so many heroes let us down, we are just waiting for the next one to do so.

To be honest, we don't need heroes. The idea makes a mockery of how complicated the world is. If someone does the right thing when it's hard, they should be applauded for it, but it certainly doesn't mean that they can be expected to make all the right choices.

Yes, but that's the point. Why can't we just applaud them for it and leave it at that? Why do we have to drag them down in the same breath? Michael Jordan was arguably the best basketball player that ever lived, but say that and someone in earshot will point out that he likely cheated on his wife. Who cares? He was still an amazing basketball player, a brilliant marketer and, in fact, a very nice guy. He has done tons for charity and he gave a car to a caddy when he won it in a tournament in the area I grew up in (a very poor area). But I guess all that matters is he MAY have cheated on his wife.

Oh, I know english. I know english as well as I recognize statements stated in spite. Keep in mind this, people will always honor him as one of the greatest humans to ever exist historically.

And on the oppisite end, no one will honor you. You will be an afterthought in the minds of human achievement.

Edit: A correction. You won't even be a person that will be remembered after the death of your kin. Just another bundle of bones in the ground decaying.

You can quit with the insults anytime now. They add nothing to the thread.

You can quit with the insults anytime now. They add nothing to the thread.

Nor does his trolling. Do realize your a mod and you shouldn't pick favorites. What does crap have to do as to with the topic question?