NationStates Jolt Archive

I believe that this can be several choices. I loved Diablo 1 and I think it revolutionized how popular RPGs would begin leaning to character building. There definately were ones before it with the same view, but I think Diablo 1 and later 2 were just very revolutionary.

I also loved Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, it was just really amuzing for some reason.

Currently, I am still playing all of the Elder Scroll games and can't wait for Oblivion.

Two words: Baldur's Gate.
No game I've played beats that in plot, no matter how old the graphics get. :D

Mario+Luigi: Superstar Saga

System Shock 2.
For something more traditional, Fallout 1/2 are excellent. So is Planescape:Torment.

Vampire the Masquerade.

And computer games arent Role Playing Games, killing 10 million mobs isnt Role Playing at all ;)

Skies of Arcadia Legends.

Unbeatable Dreamcast classic.

Chrono Trigger, easily.

Morrowind. I can't wait for the next Elder Scrolls game.

Easy, Final Fantasy seven...

Planescape: Torment. Most incredible story and experience of any game I have ever played on any system anywhere, ever. Beats the vast majority of movies and TV series' too.

My second would be The Elder Scrolls 2: Daggerfall. Morrowind was really good, but not as good, IMO, as Daggerfall. I have high hopes for the next TES game, Oblivion.

Every game made by Blizzard is trash.
I second the Baldur's Gate, particularly BG2.

My second would be The Elder Scrolls 2: Daggerfall. Morrowind was really good, but not as good, IMO, as Daggerfall. I have high hopes for the next TES game, Oblivion.
U liked Daggerfall better, that makes no sense.

Easy, Final Fantasy seven...
Yeah, objectively I think FF7 just has more gold stars on its chart. But I dug FF9, too, because the main character had a tail. That was goofy as hell.

Every game made by Blizzard is trash.


I second THAT.


U liked Daggerfall better, that makes no sense.

How does it not make sense?

Probably the Baldurs Gate series. But Fallout, Arcanum, Morrowind, and System Shock 2 (Deus Ex if you count it as an RPG as well) were all awesome. Neverwinter Nights was good, but something is missing that keeps it from being as good as Baldur's gate.

As far as console RPG's go, it's gotta be Secret of Mana.

EDIT- And can't forget roguelikes like ADOM and Nethack! :D

Hell, i hate RPG's and i loved FF7.

Vampire the Masquerade.
Chrono Trigger, easily.

These are both such good RPGs! I liked Chrono Trigger the best when I was younger but Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines is probably my favourite as it has more mature content.

Every game made by Blizzard is trash.
I second the Baldur's Gate, particularly BG2.The first part is so not true. Warcraft II was the bomb!
And BG was better than BG 2. BG 2's plot just doesn't compare. There was too much background knowledge...

Every game made by Blizzard is trash.

No; their RTS games are revolutionary and a lot of fun. I agree Diablo was a bit lame, but Warcraft (Particularly WC2...I loved that to bits) and Starcraft were awesome...Blackthorne was an excellent platformer back in the day...

Traveller.

CT in modern parlence.

And that when the nearest computer access was within the game itself. And even then your computer could not walk & chew gum at the same time - so HiTech & SciFi that is was.

And BG was better than BG 2. BG 2's plot just doesn't compare. There was too much background knowledge...

I didn't really find that much of a hindrance. I mean, it fit with the plot of being dumped in a strange country.

These are both such good RPGs! I liked Chrono Trigger the best when I was younger but Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines is probably my favourite as it has more mature content.

Nooooo !! Bloodlines is such an awesomly crap game set in the wonderful world of darkness. It completely fails to keep in line with the actual PnP game.

And BG was better than BG 2. BG 2's plot just doesn't compare. There was too much background knowledge...

I agree that BG's plot was generally better than BG2's. That said, I much preferred Irenicus as the antagonist to Sarevok. Sarevok was just evil and self-obsessed, and I was glad when my character finally killed him, but as the plot in BG2 progressed, I found myself actually pitying Irenicus. He tried so hard to be cold, but underneath he was so scared, angry, hurt and confused. He was extremely selfish and full of rage and hate, but I find it hard to label him as truly 'evil'.

Nooooo !! Bloodlines is such an awesomly crap game set in the wonderful world of darkness. It completely fails to keep in line with the actual PnP game.

I've never played the PnP game, all I know is that I really enjoyed Bloodlines, except for a few minor programming glitches, and how regardless of if you were a man or woman you had to seduce a woman in the bar and males could never seduce males :confused: . Seems a little sexist. Other than that, it was great!

Two words: Baldur's Gate.
No game I've played beats that in plot, no matter how old the graphics get. :D

Agreed. Incredible game series.

Oh good Lord!

Does *anyone* know what a RPG is when it comes with *NO* software?

Am I that old?

Morrowind. I can't wait for the next Elder Scrolls game.
Morrowind using the MOG*MOD (http://www.machall.com/mog/), you mean. :D

I've never played the PnP game, all I know is that I really enjoyed Bloodlines, except for a few minor programming glitches, and how regardless of if you were a man or woman you had to seduce a woman in the bar adn males could never seduce males. Seems a little sexist. Other than that, it was great!

Its been a while since i played Bloolines, so my memory is probably fuzzy on it. My gripe with the game is that its very different from the PnP game, the system is different (bloodspending etc) and theyve changed some other things aswell.

I didn't really find that much of a hindrance. I mean, it fit with the plot of being dumped in a strange country.It didn't have the same atmosphere as BG though... It was good, but not as good as BG. And the low number of countryside places bugged me a lot.
But both were much better than that crappy plot NWN brought out. The thing that made NWN worthwhile was the plot and the fact that you could make your own maps. There's some damn good plots out there. :D

Oh good Lord!

Does *anyone* know what a RPG is when it comes with *NO* software?

Am I that old?

Yes, I do. And I was using a reference which most NSers would know. Most aren't too old.

Oh good Lord!

Does *anyone* know what a RPG is when it comes with *NO* software?

Am I that old?
Well, in all honesty, these aren't RPGs at all. They're "Computer Adventure Games", as there's practically no "role-playing" involved. The closest to an actually RPG we've got would be the MMORPGs these days...

A real RPG needs, pen, paper, and funny-looking dice. :D

And computer games arent Role Playing Games, killing 10 million mobs isnt Role Playing at all ;)

You beat me to that. And the best overall? Can't really decide.

Oh good Lord!

Does *anyone* know what a RPG is when it comes with *NO* software?

Am I that old?

Hah! Yeah. PnP RPG's are a lot of fun, provided you have a decent group of people to play with. Have you played through the Iron Kingdoms' Witchfire Trilogy? It's d20, but it's a heck of a lot of fun. The Iron Kingdoms setting in general is really fantastic, IMO.

Oh good Lord!

Does *anyone* know what a RPG is when it comes with *NO* software?

Am I that old?Just because RPGs can be played with pen and paper (I'm guilty of that too :D ) doesn't make software any less so. You wouldn't deny the software version of Civilization the title "turn-based" simply because you need a computer to play it, would you?

Deus Ex was the best integration of RPG and FPS, hands down. The FPS aspect of Deus Ex really helped in immersing yourself in the game, something that most RPG's (excluding Morrowind, which is another of my favorites) lack. I'll probably get flamed for this one, but StarWars: Knights of the Old Republic was hella-fun for being as short as it was. I've probably spent more than 400 hours of my life playing single-player Neverwinter Nights, so that's saying something. I haven't played all of their games, by any means, but it seems like anything Bioware puts out is worth paying for.

And in the *real* RPGs section, I really dig the Palladium system of Heroes Unlimited and their out-of-print TMNT RPG. !Dice over mice!

Yeah, Diablo sucked.
Yeah, Starcraft was fun.

Well, in all honesty, these aren't RPGs at all. They're "Computer Adventure Games", as there's practically no "role-playing" involved. The closest to an actually RPG we've got would be the MMORPGs these days...

A real RPG needs, pen, paper, and funny-looking dice. :D

That's great, if you can find fellow nerds to play with. :p

It didn't have the same atmosphere as BG though... It was good, but not as good as BG. And the low number of countryside places bugged me a lot.
But both were much better than that crappy plot NWN brought out. The thing that made NWN worthwhile was the plot and the fact that you could make your own maps. There's some damn good plots out there. :D

Yeah, the customisability of NWN is good.

Oh!

Knights of the Old Republic. NWN game engine, but a decent plot. :)

Well, in all honesty, these aren't RPGs at all. They're "Computer Adventure Games", as there's practically no "role-playing" involved. The closest to an actually RPG we've got would be the MMORPGs these days...

A real RPG needs, pen, paper, and funny-looking dice. :DOh come on. Computer adventure games are those silly puzzle solving, shooter, or jump 'n' run games.
There's "dice" in some RPGs, and just because they can't be on the same in depth level that pen and paper can be, doesn't really disqualify them.

I'll probably get flamed for this one, but StarWars: Knights of the Old Republic was hella-fun for being as short as it was.

Why? It was a great game. :)

Just because RPGs can be played with pen and paper (I'm guilty of that too :D ) doesn't make software any less so. You wouldn't deny the software version of Civilization the title "turn-based" simply because you need a computer to play it, would you?
LOL! No indeed. I was just hoping someone else "out there" had a go with what was around before computers became the big thing.

Well, in all honesty, these aren't RPGs at all. They're "Computer Adventure Games", as there's practically no "role-playing" involved. The closest to an actually RPG we've got would be the MMORPGs these days...

A real RPG needs, pen, paper, and funny-looking dice. :D

Though, the Forgotten Realms games actually does have a built in dice system. You just don't get to see it.

Oh good Lord!

Does *anyone* know what a RPG is when it comes with *NO* software?

Am I that old?

I play DnD online a little (the real way, not some pissy computer game, it's a step up from pen and paper, still don't get the rules). I tend to wargame (RPG's bastard child gamesworkshop mainly).

I do know a guy making his own RPG and I'm going to help beta test that. oh, and I'm 17. Answer the question?

Oh good Lord!

Does *anyone* know what a RPG is when it comes with *NO* software?

Am I that old?

Yeah, pen and paper RPGs, like Dungeons and Dragons used to be before Balder's Gate came along. I've only ever played D&D second addition ("AD&D") though, none of the other "board games" (sans board). And I can't even deal with the third edition, I'm sticking with second. It cost me a fortune to buy all those books, I'm not doing it again.

And a big Thank you! to Warrigal, Revasser, Laerod, Seraphikaa, Kanabia, Wurzelmania, Toblin, & anyone else "out there."

I *really* was getting worried. :cool:

LOL! No indeed. I was just hoping someone else "out there" had a go with what was around before computers became the big thing.Nah, I had a go with it before D&D made it to the Computer (I was a little Civ fanatic before then). It's two separate things, though. The pen and paper version is best for gatherings of friends while the computer version allows for doing it alone. I used to create whole worlds to go along with the pen and paper adventures we had and I do the same with NWN... :D
They're complementary, not mutually exclusive ;)

Nothing compares with the Chrono Trigger series. Nothing.

Yeah, pen and paper RPGs, like Dungeons and Dragons used to be before Balder's Gate came along. I've only ever played D&D second addition ("AD&D") though, none of the other "board games" (sans board). And I can't even deal with the third edition, I'm sticking with second. It cost me a fortune to buy all those books, I'm not doing it again.Yeah, second was awesome. 3rd brought in too many new things for me to be really comfortable with it, though I've gotten used to it through NWN (wtf? a monk as a warrior class? Weren't they the guys that tended monastic gardens and wrote books (in Europe at least)? They seriously could have found a better name).

I'll probably get flamed for this one, but StarWars: Knights of the Old Republic was hella-fun for being as short as it was.

I just bought that one and am playing it. I wanted to be a dark jedi but it's so hard to make immoral decisions in that game. I'll just have to be good this time through and join the dark side the second time.

Nothing compares with the Chrono Trigger series. Nothing.

Series? Chrono Cross was absolutely awful! I can't stand that game. It shamed the word Chrono. Dozens of pointless, 1 dimensional characters, such as "I TALK IN CAPITAL LETTERS" man. ug, so horrible. Plus there's only one alternate dimension, not time travel. Blech.

Vampire: Bloodlines, Arcanum, Morrowind, Balder's Gate II top my list.

Oh good Lord!

Does *anyone* know what a RPG is when it comes with *NO* software?

Am I that old?

Well, i have monday nights Vampire(new york by night, i am storyteller), Thursday nights D&D(we just made lvl 22, only took us 2.5 years), and ocne a month Vampire the Transsilvania Chronicles(i play a nosferatu, we just started book3 and are at it for 5 years now)

I'm currently playing a game that takes place in the Middle Ages in what is now Germany, Die Guilde ("The Guild").
It's a mix between role-playing a dynasty (your character dies, and if your kids aren't old enough to replace you, the game's over) as they struggle to build an economic network in one of several cities. All the while you can take all sorts of different jobs in the city's, church's, or state legislation with all sorts of privileges.

Vampire: Bloodlines, Arcanum, Morrowind, Balder's Gate II top my list.

Another person likes Bloodlines, and yet Troika went out of business. That's so tragic! :(

Another person likes Bloodlines, and yet Troika went out of business. That's so tragic! :(

I loved Troikan games. Arcanum was fun.

Series? Chrono Cross was absolutely awful! I can't stand that game. It shamed the word Chrono. Dozens of pointless, 1 dimensional characters, such as "I TALK IN CAPITAL LETTERS" man. ug, so horrible. Plus there's only one alternate dimension, not time travel. Blech.

Chrono Cross wasn't exactly translated well in that area, I'll admit that (just like Chrono Trigger). Yeah, a lot of the characters were one-dimensional, but it had a lot of characters.

The story was what made it so great. It continued the story of Chrono Trigger, but not in the way many people thought it would. It's a shame that Square didn't allow the development team enough time to make all the characters really deep, and it's a triple shame that they had to scrap Magus/Janus as a character in Guile.

Deus Ex

ok so it's not really an RPG but it is more than many games esp with the experience system

anyway it is the game with the best story with enough twists to make it worth playin again and again.

also the details in Deus Ex was amazing like allowing you to read extracts of books in people's book cases

I play DnD online a little (the real way, not some pissy computer game, it's a step up from pen and paper, still don't get the rules). I tend to wargame (RPG's bastard child gamesworkshop mainly).

I do know a guy making his own RPG and I'm going to help beta test that. oh, and I'm 17. Answer the question?
Damm straight! To misquote you a bit "Of course I play non-computer RPGS. & I'm only 17. Whats age have to do with it?"
That was just the type of answer I needed to hear - Thank you!

I'm currently playing a game that takes place in the Middle Ages in what is now Germany, Die Guilde ("The Guild").
It's a mix between role-playing a dynasty (your character dies, and if your kids aren't old enough to replace you, the game's over) as they struggle to build an economic network in one of several cities. All the while you can take all sorts of different jobs in the city's, church's, or state legislation with all sorts of privileges.

Ah, yes...if we're thinking of the same game, it's called Europa 1400 over here. It's pretty good.

Ah, yes...if we're thinking of the same game, it's called Europa 1400 over here. It's pretty good.By JoWood? It's an Austrian production, far as I can remember.

Yeah, I just checked. That's the one. :D

I loved Troikan games. Arcanum was fun.

I never played Arcanum. I'll have to give it a try if it's as good as Bloodlines. Assuming I can find it anymore.

whats and RPG?????????

Morrowind using the MOG*MOD (http://www.machall.com/mog/), you mean. :D
Oddly enough, I never heard of the MOG*MOD. Morrowind is just simply a great game!

whats and RPG?????????Role Playing Game. It refers to adventure games where developing your character is the primary part of the game.

thanks

I played EverQuest for four years, my main character had almost 300 days (complete 24 hour days) logged. Yikes. At one point I was actually having dreams where I was my character and my real life persona was the "imaginary" one. That's about as "roleplay" as it gets, I would say.

That's great, if you can find fellow nerds to play with. :p

So true. That's what's great about computer RPGs. They let you get your role-playing fix without having to socialize. :D

Yeah, second was awesome. 3rd brought in too many new things for me to be really comfortable with it, though I've gotten used to it through NWN (wtf? a monk as a warrior class? Weren't they the guys that tended monastic gardens and wrote books (in Europe at least)? They seriously could have found a better name).

It's more modelled after the Shaolin monk than any European monk.

Best RPG? AD&D 2nd Edition! ...then, of course, there's Paranoia.

Best compy-based RPG? Baldur's Gate 1. 2 was very shiny, but didn't have a good storyline.

Say it with me now...Golden.Sun.

Say it with me now...Golden.Sun.

Morrow wind?

It's more modelled after the Shaolin monk than any European monk.I know that. I'm just saying that since the game is modelled mainly after the European Middle Ages, they could have picked a more fitting name.
When I hear monk, I think of Mendel.

I know that. I'm just saying that since the game is modelled mainly after the European Middle Ages, they could have picked a more fitting name.
When I hear monk, I think of Mendel.

Something like Karate dude?

Something like Karate dude?Don't the shaolin do Kung Fu?

Don't the shaolin do Kung Fu?

Yes. I meant instead of monk, which has a different connotation in Europe, they could be called Karate dude, or Martial Arts man. I am unaware if Europe has a term for a hand-to-hand fighter in its history.

Computer game: Planescape:Torment
PnP: Fading Suns

Morrow wind?
GOL-DEN-SU-N.

Yes. I meant instead of monk, which has a different connotation in Europe, they could be called Karate dude, or Martial Arts man. I am unaware if Europe has a term for a hand-to-hand fighter in its history.You see, I don't make money off of it and it would be overblown PC if I sent them a letter to change it. I'm just trying to rant about that when I hear "monk", it reminds me of old guys in robes with weird hair cuts and carrying large stacks of books (or studying peas). "Warrior monk" would have been better, now that I think of it.

Traveller.

CT in modern parlence.

Hands up if you ever died during character generation.

* raises hand *

GOL-DEN-SU-N.

Mor row wind?

Yeah, second was awesome. 3rd brought in too many new things for me to be really comfortable with it, though I've gotten used to it through NWN (wtf? a monk as a warrior class? Weren't they the guys that tended monastic gardens and wrote books (in Europe at least)? They seriously could have found a better name).

Monks as athletic rather than aesthetic have been in AD&D since 1st Edition, which was in 1978, so its hardly something they have snuck in recently post-computer RPGs.

Hmmm I wonder if anyone ever heard of this - but it's actually a computer game that got me into roleplaying - it was
"Warriors of the Eternal Sun" a megadrive game
Really great and absorbing game considering the tech back then - had loads of fun with it.

Here's the plot
Dungeons and Dragons WOTES is a RPG Fantasy. You are set in the middle ages, and your castle is under siege by goblins. Your king knows that your defenses can not last much longer. Just as you are praying to God for some sort of escape, it is known that your castle and all its inhabitants will pass from the world that you know very soon. Suddenly, the world trembles, and man goblin and everything else is sucked into a different dimension.

You are now in a valley with impossibly high walls. Your guards are once again very busy trying to protect the castle, and the king cannot afford to send them out. So he asks you to construct a party of people to explore your new world.


As far as PnP games go - well D&D, and SOAP larping (y'know the LARP where you all pretend to be people like the type from "days of our lives" with all the props - evil twins, amnesia, near death experiences, and of course the one secret that would ruin you if it ever came out - and you just can't stop hinting at it!!!!)

Pfft, you can keep your lil' computer games, REAL RPGs are played with pen and paper...and D&D is the daddy of the all!

Baldur's Gate, the Knights of the Old Republic series, Neverwinter Nights. All very good games, especially the KotOR games!

Mor row wind?
Okay your accent is impossible to work with.

whats and RPG?????????
It's what people mistakenly call adventure computer games thesedays :D

[Put's on flameproof Platemail +5! Wooooo!!]

Well, in all honesty, these aren't RPGs at all. They're "Computer Adventure Games", as there's practically no "role-playing" involved. The closest to an actually RPG we've got would be the MMORPGs these days...

A real RPG needs, pen, paper, and funny-looking dice. :D
Actually, thats better than I could have said it! ;)

Okay your accent is impossible to work with.

How do you pronounce it? I would say More-Row-Wind.

samurai something can't remember the name but you're a samurai trying to save a town

Monks as athletic rather than aesthetic have been in AD&D since 1st Edition, which was in 1978, so its hardly something they have snuck in recently post-computer RPGs.They didn't "sneak" it into the computer based RPGs. It's a class in the 3rd edition. "Monks" haven't been what they are in the 3rd edition.
I'm not bugged by the fact that you can be a martial artist; the word monk just conjures up a different image in my mind than what the class is in the 3rd edition.

It's about time someone mentioned Secret of Mana. Are you all newbs? Diablo? Thats not an RPG, its a point and click. The best RPGs are the classics - I ain't talking graphics. TEXT GAMES, TEXT GAMES, TEXT GAMES. But as far as consoles or PC games go - Secret of Evermore, Arcanum, Illusions of Gaia, KOTOR, Ultima NES, the list goes on.

Oh good Lord!

Does *anyone* know what a RPG is when it comes with *NO* software?

Am I that old?

dnd, vampire the masquarade, BESM d20, shadowrun, i know what your talking about, i prefer paper and pencil, it allows more freedom and character customization than any computer/console game can ever dream of, im really looking forward to dnd online.

They didn't "sneak" it into the computer based RPGs. It's a class in the 3rd edition.


No, you misread me there or I was unclear: in 1st edition AD&D, published in 1978, Monks are one of the character classes. Lets see if I can remember them all: Fighter, Ranger, Paladin, Thief, Assassin, Cleric, Druid, Magic User, Illusionist and Monk.* Bards also existed in 1st edition, but they were 'different' and required gaining levels in other classes first in order to qualify.

"Monks" haven't been what they are in the 3rd edition.

The monk in AD&D has always been a martial artist based on the Japanese model: there hasn't been any real change there.

I'm not bugged by the fact that you can be a martial artist; the word monk just conjures up a different image in my mind than what the class is in the 3rd edition.

Fair enough, but by definition anyone who fights is a fighter, anyone who thieves is a thief, anyone who uses magic is a magic user, anyone who assassinates is an assassin. AD&D has always had problems with names for the artificial notions that are character classes.

It seems strange to single out monk for particular criticism here: an actual cleric was simply a member of the clergy - not a warrior-priest and walking first aid station.

Basically you're complaining because your European outlook finds the term 'monk' used to describe a martial artist in the default cod medieval setting that AD&D operates as incongruous?

* ignoring, for simplicity's sake those added in the original Unearthed Arcana - Barbarian, Cavalier and Thief-Acrobat.

The best RPGs are the classics - I ain't talking graphics. TEXT GAMES, TEXT GAMES, TEXT GAMES.Like Net Hack? :D

It's more modelled after the Shaolin monk than any European monk.

Also there were several cases where, in japan for instance, the local buddhist monks in their, literally, mountain temples, got wind of the current king being corrupt or similar things, and would flock to the streets and rally violently. Just because your a monk doesn't mean you have to put up with a lot of crud peacefully. As you mention, especially shaolin monks ^.^ Christian monks are what the people were refering to. But there have been places, especially some tribal cultures, where the religious leader was also the best warrior, and was believed to be protected by their deities in battle... Which would be multiclassing monk and barbarian ^.^

Final Fantasy VII and VIII

Basically you're complaining because your European outlook finds the term 'monk' used to describe a martial artist in the default cod medieval setting that AD&D operates as incongruous?Basically. It has to do that European monks and Asian monks (I think the monk is modeled after Chinese, rather than Japanese monks) have the spirituality thing in common. That's what I picture when I see a monk. Meditation. Garden work. Scrolls. And this includes both the orange robed ones and the hooded ones. There's subtle differences, like the Asian ones can beat the crap out of anyone, while the European monks shave their hair in funny ways and brew beer.
Making it an official class kind of kills the idea of the European monk, though. They certainly would seem more fitting of clerical powers than fighting prowess, and it was more of a "title" than an actual class. European monks were basically clerics and Asian monks were basically fighters in my book. Neither really had their own class.
(And it annoys me that they changed "Thief" into "Rogue", too)

Baldur's Gate, the Knights of the Old Republic series, Neverwinter Nights. All very good games, especially the KotOR games!

You are too young to know of anything good.

Biased opinion... FF6 and FF7 is tied in my own mind...
Unbiased opinion... based on widespread nature and longetivity of the game... I'd have to say Dungeons and Dragons...

Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars was cool, my first RPG at that. I've been playing the GBA remake of FFII and its really good. Tales of Symphonia kicks ass.

They didn't "sneak" it into the computer based RPGs. It's a class in the 3rd edition. "Monks" haven't been what they are in the 3rd edition.
I'm not bugged by the fact that you can be a martial artist; the word monk just conjures up a different image in my mind than what the class is in the 3rd edition.
The first edition Monk (optional class, PHB) was a remorseless killing machine who, at higher levels, could kick 6 different kinds of shit out of a red dragon, and also completely dodge it's breath! LOL...the problem with the class was that it was chronically underpowered at lower levels, and chronically over powered at higher levels.

I just got back into D&D after a 4 year or so break (I been playing for about 20 years). I must say, the 3rd edition is growing on me. I still have a problem with some of the rules, and I think it is aimed a little bit too much at power gamers (especially how most classes got beefed up in 3.5 ed), but all in all, it ain't too bad...

(And it annoys me that they changed "Thief" into "Rogue", too)

I actually prefer 'rogue' to 'thief' here. The irony of D&D nicking a class name from Tunnels & Trolls is not lost on me.

Unbiased opinion... based on widespread nature and longetivity of the game... I'd have to say Dungeons and Dragons...

Hardly the same game as it was though: more of a brand name which has been placed on a succession of varied different games.

Well, in all honesty, these aren't RPGs at all. They're "Computer Adventure Games", as there's practically no "role-playing" involved. The closest to an actually RPG we've got would be the MMORPGs these days...

A real RPG needs, pen, paper, and funny-looking dice. :D

True! Very True! At the mention of MMORPGs, I choose Guild Wars. God I love that game. Whether I'm playing the RPG end or PvP, the game is awesome. After I get off from work, it's a battle choosing whether I will play Guild Wars* or Nintendogs. I'm truly addicted to both.

For old skool RPGs, it's a tie: FF1, Japanese version or Chrono Trigger, can't decided...

For real RPGs, nothing beats Shadow Run.

*If anyone plays Guild Wars my main screen name is Zelda Hime. Don't be afraid to send a message, always looking for more guild members so our guild can get a guild hall to do gvg.

I actually prefer 'rogue' to 'thief' here. The irony of D&D nicking a class name from Tunnels & Trolls is not lost on me.Not really. I've seen the class in other games too, so D&D isn't necessarily guilty of theft (or would it be rougery now? :D ). Do you understand my reasoning for finding the monk class badly named though? It took away a bit of the freedom I had when making worlds (how could I set up a monastery and make the monks in there clerics..?).

Chrono Trigger, easily.
No question. Glad to see this was an early response. I've still got the SNES cartridge, the instructions, and the box. I'm told it's worth some money now [since the Playstation rerelease] but I'll never sell it.

Actually, the best RPG in the world is the Model United Nations. You pretend to be the leader of a world nation and run around in suits and whatnot (and if you chair a forum, you get a gavel! :D)

No question. Glad to see this was an early response. I've still got the SNES cartridge, the instructions, and the box. I'm told it's worth some money now [since the Playstation rerelease] but I'll never sell it.

I'm liking this attitude, man.

Hands up if you ever died during character generation.

* raises hand *
LOL! OMG! etc...
It makes for one *HELUFA* change for someone you bring in from D&D et. al.
I also remember playing the old-guy-from-hell, the one who rolled 12's three times in a row *after* he decided to muster out.
And whut was that rule? The one about skills<INT+EDU, etc...

Are we supposed to be rating ALL RPGs, electronic only, pen and paper only or what?

Are we supposed to be rating ALL RPGs, electronic only, pen and paper only or what?
All of the above - despite my initial panic that is was electronic only.
I will also take this opportuinity to throw out my fav. computer RPG. Anyone remember PHANTASIE 1-2-3?

Not really. I've seen the class in other games too, so D&D isn't necessarily guilty of theft (or would it be rougery now? :D ).

Ah, but you see T&T was the cheap and cheerful homebrew version knocked up shortly after D&D first hit the scene, and I won't say that TSR were considering legal action, but they were less than happy with it muscling in on 'their' territory. I think I can fairly safely say that T&T was the first RPG with a rogue class.

Do you understand my reasoning for finding the monk class badly named though? It took away a bit of the freedom I had when making worlds (how could I set up a monastery and make the monks in there clerics..?).

I understand, but I think you are worrying too much about terminology: if you wanted to set up a monastery why not just give the head priests the cleric class, and make the rest of them either 1st level clerics (acolytes?) if you were in D&D - as they didn't get spells till second level there - or just use the typical common human stats (1d3 hits IIRC) from the DMG.

LOL! OMG! etc...
It makes for one *HELUFA* change for someone you bring in from D&D et. al.

Only wusses used the 'injured in service' rule.

I also remember playing the old-guy-from-hell, the one who rolled 12's three times in a row *after* he decided to muster out.


Yeah, it gave an interesting perspective to things when 18 year olds were absolutely useless as characters, and 22 year olds only marginally better. Basically it lead to a load of burnt out ex-serviceguys tootling around the cosmos whilst undergoing middle age crises.

And whut was that rule? The one about skills<INT+EDU, etc...

That rule wouldn't have sat well with the characters from Books 4-7: they could pick up that bundle in three terms easily.

The big problem with CT for me was that there was no real task resolution system: having a skill... say Engineering-1 was all very well, but outside of combat exactly how you were meant to apply a skill was left nebulous and very much up to the referee's whim.

Nevermind the fact that Jack-of-trades-2 gave you a character that could bodge through any sticky situation...

But, hey, for all its myriad faults I still love it.

I understand, but I think you are worrying too much about terminology: if you wanted to set up a monastery why not just give the head priests the cleric class, and make the rest of them either 1st level clerics (acolytes?) if you were in D&D - as they didn't get spells till second level there - or just use the typical common human stats (1d3 hits IIRC) from the DMG.Oh of course, I wouldn't let it stop me. It just feels like the evil Wizards of the Coast are restricting my creativity. They'd be clerics, no doubt, and ranks and spell abilities being reduced a bit where necessary. It just feels wrong to call them monks when they clearly don't fit the class and it might confuse players (rather dangerous in the computerized versions of D&D).

It just feels wrong to call them monks when they clearly don't fit the class and it might confuse players (rather dangerous in the computerized versions of D&D).

How about just calling them 'Brothers of St. Uncumber' or whoever: should create the idea of a pseudo-European monastic order nicely without causing too much confusion.

{*snip*}
Yeah, it gave an interesting perspective to things when 18 year olds were absolutely useless as characters, and 22 year olds only marginally better. Basically it lead to a load of burnt out ex-serviceguys tootling around the cosmos whilst undergoing middle age crises.
{*snip*}
Phew! Now *this* one *really* had me on the floor! And Mahhhn, does it bring back the memories...
I have never heard of CT being described this way; but, Damm me sideways if this is not spot on!
I remember how my group once sat down & *really* thought about it. How does one *pay* for that goddam starship?
We even tried to solicit advice from the "non-RPG-aware." It started as - how does one pay for a car? Ok, now, that's all well & good; but, let's say it not a car. You have inherited a hellicopter & have to find a way to use ( & pay ) for it. For various reasons we avoided the ocean-going-ship analogy.
*This* is from a group that was pre-drivers license at the time. Keep that in mind.
I do not remember anything viable that did not involve an "illeagal" approach. Hell of a concept to explore at that age... :rolleyes:

How about just calling them 'Brothers of St. Uncumber' or whoever: should create the idea of a pseudo-European monastic order nicely without causing too much confusion.Nifty idea. The thing I'm working on right now is a campaign in NWN based on the main character having lost his memory (a cliché, but a good one :D ). The original game resummons you at a certain place if you die (sadly, it's more of a single player game :( ). I've managed to get the scripting done that the character gets summoned before a council of Gods which give the character a second chance... depending on class, faith, or alignment. :D

I remember how my group once sat down & *really* thought about it. How does one *pay* for that goddam starship?

You run back and forth over the established Jump-1 trade routes in your freetrader letting no distraction in the way of adventure or danger lure you off the straight and narrow path. Think Futurama pizza-delivery in space if you want to keep that 200 tonne hull running. CT was essentially the British Empire during the reign of Queen Victoria - consult your Joseph Conrad books for helpful hints on how to keep the steamer trucking. As you say, piracy has been shopwn to be an impossible proposition even if you just want to keep your ship running, nevermind paying off the rest of the debt on it...


However, in that handy six by six matrix that is the random patron encounter table lies the solution to the problem here: let someone else shoulder the financial responsibilities and make them pay your way so that you can hunt and skin the dread tree-squid in the wilds of Regina/make sure that the two star-crossed lovers (Montalet and Capugue, of course) never wed/assassinate the Solomani leader as his air-raft passes the Book Depositary on Efate.

For various reasons we avoided the ocean-going-ship analogy.

Why? Am I missing something obvious here? The East India Company and tramp steamers in the 1930s seem to have been the ideas that the designers had in mind.

The Kingdom of Loathing.

Who doesn't want to be a drunk stick figure? ;)

Pardon the heavy editing!

You run back and forth over the established Jump-1 trade routes in your freetrader letting no distraction in the way of adventure or danger lure you off the straight and narrow path... {*snip*}
As you say, piracy has been shown to be an impossible proposition even if you just want to keep your ship running, nevermind paying off the rest of the debt on it...


Man! Ok, well, I'm trying to get in that mindset of, oh, 20 years ago or so.
All that running back & forth might work. Buuuuht ... all that work ...
Sounds like *work* to me ( and it *did* to them )- not the stuff legends are made of.


However, in that handy six by six matrix that is the random patron encounter table ... {*snip*} ... ( to - ''sic.'' ) ... let someone else shoulder the financial responsibilities and make them pay your way so that you can ... {*snip*} <mywords - not Grampus' > ( engage in out-&-out rioting & general mayhem ) </mywords not Grampus' > {*snip*} ...


Now, *that*, sounds like the stuff legends are made of.


Why? Am I missing something obvious here? The East India Company and tramp steamers in the 1930s seem to have been the ideas that the designers had in mind.

I concur - they ( the game CT designers ) did. I feel that - since so many of my group later became some form of <insert nerdy adj. here> engineer, myself included, there was something of a lack of imagination. Or, perhaps & most of all, it was a way to "test " the methods that we said were so obvious.

I am shocked and surprised that no one thought to mention Xenogears.

Though I agree with the choices of Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy VII (for the record, I thought FFVIII sucked big hairy donkey nuts), i think I should make my case for Xenogears.

For a game that has mediocre graphics, questionable combat mechanics, and atrociously translated dialogue, it somehow manages to have a storyline that compares very easilly to FFVII in terms of quality. Very complex and intelligent, as well as moving (though I'll be the first to admit the writers lapse from time to time into preachiness_. The game also has admirable character design and a sountrack that rivals Chrono Trigger and most Final Fantasy scores (In fact, Xenogears' music was done by the same man who did Chrono Trigger).

As for the classical RPG's, I think Vampire is the way to go. I've always prefered World of Darkness to Dungeons and Dragons, simply because D and D has always struck me as too generic (though that's begun to change thanks to Third Edition). And to all you lunatics who think AD&D is the best, I laugh at all of you! :P Seriously, AD&D has tremendous, I repeat, TREMENDOUS problems in terms of game mechanics. I played it for four years and I still couldn't figure out the damn dice system (THAC0? please....). I'll grant that AD&D produced some very good campaign settings such as Planescape and Dark Sun, but on top of the die rolling issues, it's also a horrendously expensive game to play properly (you need like three generic books plus whatever books cover the setting you want to do. Planescape ate up money that could have paid for a good deal of my rent!!!).

Neverwinter Nights is the best.

Two words: Baldur's Gate.


Well said!

Bests RPG's in the story department:

Planescape: Torment
Xenogears
Persona 2: Eternal Punishment

DSA: Das Schwarze Auge

or, as it is known to the English speaking community

The Black Eye (afaik)

A great rpg from germany, rich background, many different characters to choose from, and less combat based. The solution to problems is almost never violence.
There are more non-combat classes to schoose from than warriors, and they are not only non combatants, they simply can't fight!
I love it, I have a bunch of warriors (mercs, knights, barbs), always the one who picks the fight.

Any FF game, my personal favorite is 7 though.
Valkyrie Profile

Brave Soul :)

Planescape: Torment.
Followed by:
BG, BG2 and BG:TOB-(just for the party interactions)
Morrowind and its expansions.
I quite liked Revenant.


Oh good Lord!

Does *anyone* know what a RPG is when it comes with *NO* software?

Am I that old?
Yes and maybe. How old are you?

Another person likes Bloodlines, and yet Troika went out of business. That's so tragic! :(
They didn't exactly have the best business practice. And while Bloodlines was fun you have to admit that it was an extremely unpolished game.
Yes. I meant instead of monk, which has a different connotation in Europe, they could be called Karate dude, or Martial Arts man. I am unaware if Europe has a term for a hand-to-hand fighter in its history.
Probably boxer. Just remember that pre- Marquess of Queensberry rules boxers would scare modern muay thai guys. (Headbutts, punches, kicks, elbows, knees, throws, grapples, chokes and possibly biting, although I am not too sure about the biting.)

Fallout 2, Arcanum, Suikoden and of course Planescape: Torment

I liked the original console RPG's as they were much truer to form (yes i'm one of those "old" people who played with dice and later with text only on AppleII) - DragonWarrior, FF1&2 - more recently the Suikoden series. The game manufacturers are making me crazy by classifying games as RPG's when they are really just more complex action games. A good rule of thumb, if you have to be co-ordinated (rather than smart) to beat the bad guys it's not a true RPG.

I liked the original console RPG's as they were much truer to form (yes i'm one of those "old" people who played with dice and later with text only on AppleII) - DragonWarrior, FF1&2 - more recently the Suikoden series. The game manufacturers are making me crazy by classifying games as RPG's when they are really just more complex action games. A good rule of thumb, if you have to be co-ordinated (rather than smart) to beat the bad guys it's not a true RPG.

Do you remember the original wizardry game then? That was awesome on the AppleII. Though, I had a bootleg copy and it made you answer questions about the game. I memorized all the answers after days of getting wrong answers. I was five at the time, but I really wanted to play that game.

Planescape: Torment

Are we talking about PC-RPG or Pen and Paper-RPGs?^^

Well, the best PC-Games in this section were Baldurs Gate (as complete saga) and Planescape: Torment.

But what is an PC compared with human players?
So my favorite is the german RPG The Dark Eye.
Unfortunately you can only get the basic rules in english. The rest is not translated yet. :(

Nation States. :D

I believe that this can be several choices. I loved Diablo 1 and I think it revolutionized how popular RPGs would begin leaning to character building. There definately were ones before it with the same view, but I think Diablo 1 and later 2 were just very revolutionary.

I also loved Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, it was just really amuzing for some reason.

Currently, I am still playing all of the Elder Scroll games and can't wait for Oblivion.

ShadowRun. By far the best RPG ever...

Although I still play D&D 3.5 from Wizards. It isn't AD&D 2nd edition, but it's fun.

While video games can be RPG's...I prefer that actual RPG's, sitting with friends, a few beers and funny dice.

DSA: Das Schwarze Auge

or, as it is known to the English speaking community

The Black Eye (afaik)

A great rpg from germany, rich background, many different characters to choose from, and less combat based. The solution to problems is almost never violence.
There are more non-combat classes to schoose from than warriors, and they are not only non combatants, they simply can't fight!
I love it, I have a bunch of warriors (mercs, knights, barbs), always the one who picks the fight.
I don't like it that much. Can't really say why. Most of the time I thought that the characters have to be to heroic and that attack/paree system slowed combat down to much. I also thought that the world is to fairytale-like and elves are a even more pain-in-the-ass as in most other systems, but I heard that most of it was changed with the new edition and I will most probably give it a new try.

go mario

So hard...

My personal favourite has to be Chrono Trigger, though Fallout 2, Baldur's Gate, Final Fantasy VI & VII were all pretty damn good as well.

There are plenty of great RPG Games:

Diablo 1/2

Fate

Fable

KOTR Series

Shenmue for the Dreamcast ( OMG THIS GAME IS ONE OF THE BEST!! )

FF8 ( Because it is the only one I bothered to play lol )

And this one for SNES when you and your dog keep getting warped into different times and your dog always changes appearance and key skills, and if anyone has any idea what it may be called then please tell me!

Top Three (Not in any order. If any, Chrono Trigger would be First):

Fallout Series
Daggerfall (Morrowind was Daggerfall dipped in Sugar. Still decent, though)
Chrono Trigger

Honorable Mentions:

Persona 2 (To the guy to mentioned it above, You rock!)
Morrowind
Shenmue (Simply awesome)
Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, Redemption (I liked Redemption...)
Shining Force for Genesis. Badassery.

FF7, KOTR AND Fable if it's classed as one.

diablo again
tales of synphoina (sp)
FF 3, 7,8 (US versions)
skys of arcaida

and my fav

phantasy star online ep 1 and 2

Hands up if you ever died during character generation.

* raises hand *

LOL Yes, that had to be one of the funniest bits GDW ever included. And the silly thing is that it slowly infected all their other systems as they built their in-house system.

Hemingsoft, I remember Wizardry!

I see a few folks mentioned Shadowrun. I picked up a copy of Ed. 1 and the rules were just simply :headbang: But then again, the CP and GURP cyberpunk rules weren't much better.

Let's just say for cyberpunk games, I ran a homebrew game engine heavily influanced by GDW's in-house system and Chaosium's BRP. ;)

For non-fantasy roleplaying games, I really liked Twilight 2000, and it's spinoffs like Merc 2000 and Dark Conspiracy.

Dark Cloud 2.

Must I pick one? Gah. I refuse.

The Fallout Series, The Baldur's Gate Series, Tales of Phantasia, The Knights of the Old Republic Series, and NetHack.

Oh yeah, and Daggerfall. Non-linear at its best.

Morrowind

No More Discussion, No More Dispute

That's The Answer

Thanks Answer Man

Morrowind

No More Discussion, No More Dispute

That's The Answer

Thanks Answer Man


You're right. Daggerfall IS the answer. :p

Long live Daggerfall, King of the TES Series! :D

LOL Yes, that had to be one of the funniest bits GDW ever included. And the silly thing is that it slowly infected all their other systems as they built their in-house system.

The really cool feature was the possibility of dying of old age before you even began adventuring.

Let's just say for cyberpunk games, I ran a homebrew game engine heavily influanced by GDW's in-house system and Chaosium's BRP. ;)

Ahhh... BRP. How could a 28 page pamphlet rock so much?

Two words: Baldur's Gate.
No game I've played beats that in plot, no matter how old the graphics get. :D

i think baldurs gate was a cheap ripoff of diablo. u can tell thats what the designers were going for, but im guessing they realized it was copyright infringment and changed certain aspects or completely ignored things alltogether. like the gems and whatnot. they are in diablo and baldurs gate. in diablo you could put the into your weapon or armor to enhance its capabilities. im assuming baldurs gate was going to do the same thing, until they realised it was illegal. so ultimately you end up with 37 ruby's that cost 12$ a piece and selling them is the only purpose.

in my opinion, best rpg ever would have to go to chrono trigger, with earthbound coming in at an extremely close second.

i think baldurs gate was a cheap ripoff of diablo. u can tell thats what the designers were going for, but im guessing they realized it was copyright infringment and changed certain aspects or completely ignored things alltogether. like the gems and whatnot. they are in diablo and baldurs gate. in diablo you could put the into your weapon or armor to enhance its capabilities. im assuming baldurs gate was going to do the same thing, until they realised it was illegal. so ultimately you end up with 37 ruby's that cost 12$ a piece and selling them is the only purpose.

in my opinion, best rpg ever would have to go to chrono trigger, with earthbound coming in at an extremely close second.Then, my child, you are completely clueless. Baldur's Gate is based on D&D. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Diablo.

i think baldurs gate was a cheap ripoff of diablo. u can tell thats what the designers were going for, but im guessing they realized it was copyright infringment and changed certain aspects or completely ignored things alltogether. like the gems and whatnot. they are in diablo and baldurs gate. in diablo you could put the into your weapon or armor to enhance its capabilities. im assuming baldurs gate was going to do the same thing, until they realised it was illegal. so ultimately you end up with 37 ruby's that cost 12$ a piece and selling them is the only purpose.


Uh...you have got to be kidding.

Baldurs gate is a role playing adventure based on the Dungeons and Dragons ruleset.

Diablo is an action game with some stats.

Where did Baldurs Gate imitate Diablo in any way?

(By the way, wasn't the gem enhancement thing only in the Diablo 2 expansion? Baldurs Gate was out some years before that.)

Then, my child, you are completely clueless. Baldur's Gate is based on D&D. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Diablo.

Very true, the Forgotten Realm series, obviously, were based off D&D. Diablo on the other hand is solely equipment and character based. Though hacking through a horde of minions in RT can be very soothing after a long day of work. But Baldur's Gate, not including the console versions, are very much turn-based.

Uh...you have got to be kidding.

Baldurs gate is a role playing adventure based on the Dungeons and Dragons ruleset.

Diablo is an action game with some stats.

Where did Baldurs Gate imitate Diablo in any way?

(By the way, wasn't the gem enhancement thing only in the Diablo 2 expansion? Baldurs Gate was out some years before that.)

Not really the only add-on in the expansion. More levels, monsters, items, etc.

And no, the Baldur's Gate series opener was released in 1998 and Diablo was released in 1996.

Very true, the Forgotten Realm series, obviously, were based off D&D. Diablo on the other hand is solely equipment and character based. Though hacking through a horde of minions in RT can be very soothing after a long day of work. But Baldur's Gate, not including the console versions, are very much turn-based.Of course. I'm not saying Diablo's bad. It's just ignorant to think that a party based game that runs on modified D&D rules is a cheap copy off of it.

Of course. I'm not saying Diablo's bad. It's just ignorant to think that a party based game that runs on modified D&D rules is a cheap copy off of it.

Definately.

Not really the only add-on in the expansion. More levels, monsters, items, etc.

And no, the Baldur's Gate series opener was released in 1998 and Diablo was released in 1996.True. Game wise, Diablo was out before BG, but the gem-selling has been around for much longer. I suggest looking for an AD&D Player's Handbook for anyone that thinks gems were intended for enhancing weapons.

Not really the only add-on in the expansion. More levels, monsters, items, etc.

And no, the Baldur's Gate series opener was released in 1998 and Diablo was released in 1996.

Yes, I know that...

But "Lord of Destruction" (is that right? can't be bothered looking it up), the Diablo 2 expansion which included these enhancements, was released long after 1998.

I have the creeping suspicion that the guy that said that just wanted to incite BG fans to a flame fest... There so needs to be some kind of headshake smiley. :rolleyes:

Yes, I know that...

But "Lord of Destruction" (is that right? can't be bothered looking it up), the Diablo 2 expansion which included these enhancements, was released long after 1998.

Yea, I know, but how does that make any difference to whether or not Baldur's Gate has been influenced by the Diablo series when the Diablo series was created first? You can't just say that this was the last installment of the Diablo series and it was after this date, so thus it can't happen.

Where did Baldurs Gate imitate Diablo in any way?
Let's see:
1) Creatures change color if they're a tougher version?
2) You only control one person?
3) Short dialogues, appropriate for an action game?
4) A percantage system that calculates whether you hit or not?
5) A magic system based on mana points?
6) You have to click to hit something every time you want to?
7) A world invented just for the game?

Damn BG copied all of those, didn't it? :D

go mario
The mario games are not RPGs, they are platformers.

Yea, I know, but how does that make any difference to whether or not Baldur's Gate has been influenced by the Diablo series when the Diablo series was created first? You can't just say that this was the last installment of the Diablo series and it was after this date, so thus it can't happen.

I know that, but the specific example he cited was the use of gems to upgrade your weaponry, which he claims the creators of Baldur's Gate opted not to use for copyright issues....when in fact, this feature came about long after Baldurs Gate was a series. :)

Let's see:
1) Creatures change color if they're a tougher version?
2) You only control one person?
3) Short dialogues, appropriate for an action game?
4) A percantage system that calculates whether you hit or not?
5) A magic system based on mana points?
6) You have to click to hit something every time you want to?
7) A world invented just for the game?

Damn BG copied all of those, didn't it? :D

:p

pardon all my arguing, I wasn't sure if this was solely over gems or not. If it is, sorry. If its solely about whether Baldur's Gate in no way shape or form could possibly be influenced by the Diablo series, then I keep my stand. Not to mention the latest installments of Baldur's Gate have been cheap rip-off of Diablo.

pardon all my arguing, I wasn't sure if this was solely over gems or not. If it is, sorry. If its solely about whether Baldur's Gate in no way shape or form could possibly be influenced by the Diablo series, then I keep my stand. Not to mention the latest installments of Baldur's Gate have been cheap rip-off of Diablo.

Well, I didn't bother with Throne of Bhall. Maybe you're right, maybe not.

Remember the Dark Alliance games, those sucks. A blind folded monkey could be those.

http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/bgda/

http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/bgda2/

BG2, FFVII

Dungeon Master & Chaos Strikes Back FTW!

Also, the latest PC games by Forgotten Realms have had so many design flaws, it gets on my nerves sometimes

Remember the Dark Alliance games, those sucks. A blind folded monkey could be those.

http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/bgda/

http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/bgda2/

That's a user-created mod rather than an official expansion, isn't it?

That's a user-created mod rather than an official expansion, isn't it?

I know its a little different, but those are console games. Still, why? I hated those games, especially after beating all of the previous ones. Leave the action rpg to the Blizzard North team, well old team.

I know its a little different, but those are console games. Still, why? I hated those games, especially after beating all of the previous ones. Leave the action rpg to the Blizzard North team, well old team.

Oh, I had no idea they actually existed until now. :p lol...

Oh, I had no idea they actually existed until now. :p lol...

Oh, play them and they are complete rip-offs of diablo. In every aspect. Except for monsters like your classic kobalds. Maybe some of these people in this forum only know of the console BG games.

Zelda: Ocarina of Time, I never really got into any other rpg

I would like to plump for PanHistoria.com. No compulsive matrix, over 100 stories, character creation on one's own terms, no limitations by dice, monsters, situations, 'death'..... an opportunity for sheer creativity and socialization no matter how old or young you are.

It was created as 'story play' by people who were frustrated by the restrictions in online RPG's and is basically whatever a writer makes of it. A tiny bit of fun or old fashioned compulsion to write, write, write... Some of my fellow writers are really good. It expands your horizons just to read them.

A side note: There once was a young man who got so addicted to EverQuest that he spent a few years convinced the character his character fell in love with existed in real life as a European princess who was being kept away from him by her family.... that was very sad....

I also like NATION STATES!!!!! ;)

Oh, play them and they are complete rip-offs of diablo. In every aspect. Except for monsters like your classic kobalds. Maybe some of these people in this forum only know of the console BG games.

Oh, that makes sense then. I'm totally ignorant of consoles, heh...well, except for the SNES.

Also, the latest PC games by Forgotten Realms have had so many design flaws, it gets on my nerves sometimesBy Forgotten Realms? Based in Forgotten Realms. :p
Forgotten Realms is the world in which the BG series, Ice Wind Dale series, and NWN series take place. It's not a company, silly.
There's been books about Forgotten Realms longer than the games.

By Forgotten Realms? Based in Forgotten Realms. :p
Forgotten Realms is the world in which the BG series, Ice Wind Dale series, and NWN series take place. It's not a company, silly.
There's been books about Forgotten Realms longer than the games.

Obviously, but without looking it up, can you tell me who made ToE.
You state stuff I've known for years. But as of late, their propaganda, at least in the States, has been Forgotten Realms. So that's what I refer to them all lumped together. Because they all aren't made by the same groups.

Obviously, but without looking it up, can you tell me who made ToE.
You state stuff I've known for years. But as of late, their propaganda, at least in the States, has been Forgotten Realms. So that's what I refer to them all lumped together. Because they all aren't made by the same groups.Propaganda? :p
Anyway, Atari and Troika made ToEE (which I think is what you mean)
Forgotten Realms isn't a "company" its a setting owned by Wizards of the Coast. It would be like calling Middle Earth a company.

Propaganda? :p
Anyway, Atari and Troika made ToEE (which I think is what you mean)
Forgotten Realms isn't a "company" its a setting owned by Wizards of the Coast. It would be like calling Middle Earth a company.

Dude, I know!!!! How many times must I say this. Dude, I know!!!! Dude, I know!!!!

Here in many parts of the States all of the Forgotten Realms are just 'called' Forgotten Realms games, not 'made by', but 'called.' Good Lord!

I believe that this can be several choices. I loved Diablo 1 and I think it revolutionized how popular RPGs would begin leaning to character building. There definately were ones before it with the same view, but I think Diablo 1 and later 2 were just very revolutionary

Only one problem - Diablo has absolutely nothing to do with rpgs. There is no roleplaying at all in the games - character development doesn't make an rpg

I'm going to have to say Fallout 1&2. There are a lot of great ones, but those might just be the best

For non-fantasy roleplaying games, I really liked Twilight 2000, and it's spinoffs like Merc 2000 and Dark Conspiracy.

:D

One of the best camapigns I ever ran was based on good ole Ed. 1 Red Star, Lone Star. Of course, running a group who in real life lived smack in the center of the area where the action took place, and strongly objected to certain inaccuracies in that module was a large part of the fun.

The really cool feature was the possibility of dying of old age before you even began adventuring.

So sweet it made John Kovalic and Ben Sargent's "Murphy's Rules" back in the
days when I read it in The Space Gamer. (And yes, I just did date myself. I read The Space Gamer - when it was being published. I also played the Keep on the Borderlands when it was newish. I've even played Chainmail - once. Color me ancient.)

Ahhh... BRP. How could a 28 page pamphlet rock so much?

Exactly.

Only one problem - Diablo has absolutely nothing to do with rpgs. There is no roleplaying at all in the games - character development doesn't make an rpg

I'm going to have to say Fallout 1&2. There are a lot of great ones, but those might just be the best

It might not in your definition, but both one and two and the expansion won best RPG of the year.

I believe that this can be several choices.

Indeed. Top five list coming up:

1. Final Fantasy VII
2. Breath of Fire III
3. Final Fantasy VIII
4. Lunar: Silver Star Story
5. Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne

Final Fantasy Tactics, Final Fantasy X, and Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga are right up there as well.

Indeed. Top five list coming up:

1. Final Fantasy VII
2. Breath of Fire III
3. Final Fantasy VIII
4. Lunar: Silver Star Story
5. Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne

Final Fantasy Tactics, Final Fantasy X, and Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga are right up there as well.

Good choices, but I've gotten sick of Japanese games. They just don't appeal to me like they used to.

It might not in your definition, but both one and two and the expansion won best RPG of the year.

Just because the people who made the game want to call it an rpg, and reviewers let it in the category of computer rpgs (let's face it, during the history of computer games, there have been made only a handful of games that contain any actual roleplaying) doesn't mean there's any roleplaying in there. Heretic has as many roleplaying elements than Diablo

Just because the people who made the game want to call it an rpg, and reviewers let it in the category of computer rpgs (let's face it, during the history of computer games, there have been made only a handful of games that contain any actual roleplaying) doesn't mean there's any roleplaying in there. Heretic has as many roleplaying elements than Diablo

I wish people would use the same theory and concepts when it comes to political debates. Whenever I try to use similar ones, all the liberals tell me that social definition defines stuff, not what it truly is.

RPG : Role Playing Game

In PC games like FFVII and Golden Sun, you are playing a role, therefore they ARE RPGs.

Granted, they are computer games, but the definition stands.

In the realm of RPGs, the best are, without question, FFVII, FVIII, and KOTOR 1 and 2. End

Only one problem - Diablo has absolutely nothing to do with rpgs. There is no roleplaying at all in the games - character development doesn't make an rpg

I'm going to have to say Fallout 1&2. There are a lot of great ones, but those might just be the best

Define an RPG.

In the realm of RPGs, the best are, without question, FFVII, FVIII, and KOTOR 1 and 2. End

No. FF7 and KOTOR, maybe, but FF8 is nowhere near one of the best.

Baldur's GAte series>all

For the record, a role-playing game is a game where the person adopts the persona of a character or party (rather than an army, population or team) and plays that character/party throughout the game. Diablo most certainly is a role-playing game. I don't know what some people's definition is, but that is the correct definition.

For the record, a role-playing game is a game where the person adopts the persona of a character or party (rather than an army, population or team) and plays that character/party throughout the game. Diablo most certainly is a role-playing game. I don't know what some people's definition is, but that is the correct definition.

Thus making Tomb Raider and Half Life RPGs (??) :confused:

as for computer RPG's, fallout 1 and 2 and planescape:torment. to a lesser extent, elder scrolls 3-morrowind and the gothic games. those were both very good at being relatively freeform games, and that's a good thing for a CRPG.

Thus making Tomb Raider and Half Life RPGs (??) :confused:
Technically, yes. However, in the genre, they tend to only include rpg's that allow you to build the character.

If you look it up, first person shooters like Halo technically fit the definition of an RPG.

Technically, yes. However, in the genre, they tend to only include rpg's that allow you to build the character.

If you look it up, first person shooters like Halo technically fit the definition of an RPG.

Technically, maybe, but they don't fit the "spirit of the definition". I think it could do with redefining, personally.

Technically, maybe, but they don't fit the "spirit of the definition". I think it could do with redefining, personally.

Then alter it. Like I said, some definitions include character-building, but I tried to go with the most general definition. Either way, Diablo is definitely RPG.

I believe that this can be several choices. I loved Diablo 1 and I think it revolutionized how popular RPGs would begin leaning to character building. There definately were ones before it with the same view, but I think Diablo 1 and later 2 were just very revolutionary.

I also loved Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, it was just really amuzing for some reason.

Currently, I am still playing all of the Elder Scroll games and can't wait for Oblivion.

SUPER MARIO RPG WAS THE BEST GAME EVER. forget best rpg ever.... i loved that game, i need to find it, i always rented it when i felt like playing... FUDGE. I LOVE THAT GAME.

The Fallout series kicks A$$! It's all funny, too! And PipBoy is a great mascot!

Then alter it. Like I said, some definitions include character-building, but I tried to go with the most general definition. Either way, Diablo is definitely RPG.
I don't know why you guys area arguing whether it is or isn't an RPG. That's hardly the issue about Diablo. The issue is its a boring monotonous click-fest that shouldn't be mentioned in a topic thats called "Best RPG of all time"

I don't know why you guys area arguing whether it is or isn't an RPG. That's hardly the issue about Diablo. The issue is its a boring monotonous click-fest that shouldn't be mentioned in a topic thats called "Best RPG of all time"

Bada-Bing!

I have to agree. Although I found the game to be quite fun, it really is little than a clickety action game. Where by action, I just mean clickety.

Diablo is right up there with games I clocked up the most hours on...along with Bard's Tale, Dungeon Hack, Dungeon keeper and Menzobarranzan. It was great for it's time, and I loved it to death, but it wasn't really what I'd call hugely cerebral or original gaming...

Diablo is right up there with games I clocked up the most hours on...along with Bard's Tale, Dungeon Hack, Dungeon keeper and Menzobarranzan. It was great for it's time, and I loved it to death, but it wasn't really what I'd call hugely cerebral or original gaming...
:eek: How...? Diablo... and the awesomeness of Dungeon Keeper? How can one like both?

I am speechless. I mean normally I'd scoff at you for liking Diablo, but because Dungeon Keeper was mentioned--a hugely underrated masterpiece of originality and gaming. I don't know what to say. :(

:eek: How...? Diablo... and the awesomeness of Dungeon Keeper? How can one like both?

I am speechless. I mean normally I'd scoff at you for liking Diablo, but because Dungeon Keeper was mentioned--a hugely underrated masterpiece of originality and gaming. I don't know what to say. :(

Dungeon Keeper was indeed a beacon for badassery in original gaming. I was a fan of both the first and the second, and would proceed to orgasm all over myself, my housecats, and the neighbor's housecats if they began work on a third installment of the series.

Dungeon Keeper was indeed a beacon for badassery in original gaming. I was a fan of both the first and the second, and would proceed to orgasm all over myself, my housecats, and the neighbor's housecats if they began work on a third installment of the series.
I think there was talk of a DK3, but Bullfrog just weren't interested...

I don't know why you guys area arguing whether it is or isn't an RPG. That's hardly the issue about Diablo. The issue is its a boring monotonous click-fest that shouldn't be mentioned in a topic thats called "Best RPG of all time"

That's what I was arguing about? :eek:

ES3:Morrowind

I love the way you can go where you want and do what you want. And the mods are great too.

Sentinel Worlds: Future Magic

I'll have to quickly agree with the person or people who said "Final Fantasy VII" before. Cid's the man.

And now I'm off to school.

Dungeon Keeper was indeed a beacon for badassery in original gaming. I was a fan of both the first and the second, and would proceed to orgasm all over myself, my housecats, and the neighbor's housecats if they began work on a third installment of the series.
I didn't much like the second. There was something missing... I'm not quite sure what. The fact was I just kept getting bored in DK2...

But hey it wasn't the same team who made the sequel... so yeah... I'm not surprised that I was a bit disappointed.

Can I get a holla for the roots? D and D, 2nd edition baby yeah!
- Pete
Street Vendor, Tyslan

For me the best RPG is The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, I 'm expecting with a lot of illusion The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion.

For me the best RPG is The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, I 'm expecting with a lot of illusion The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion.

Hopefully it's not delusion.
Can't wait either

NetHack is the best.

What other game has so many cool features that I would play hundred of games (around 500), never win *once* and still be so fun that I *still* play it?

On the console, Mario RPG was pretty cool (Geno was awesome, and the Axem Rangers were hysterical), but it was a bit too short of a game overall. So I'd rather take an old game called Breath of Fire II. That was a hell of a game, and up until Baldur's Gate, I would have called it one of the best storylines ever.

On the PC, Baldur's Gate wins hand's down, although I've heard nothing but good things about KotoR.

On paper, I prefer the Mechwarrior 3rd Ed RPG myself.

On the console, Mario RPG was pretty cool (Geno was awesome, and the Axem Rangers were hysterical), but it was a bit too short of a game overall. So I'd rather take an old game called Breath of Fire II. That was a hell of a game, and up until Baldur's Gate, I would have called it one of the best storylines ever.

On the PC, Baldur's Gate wins hand's down, although I've heard nothing but good things about KotoR.

On paper, I prefer the Mechwarrior 3rd Ed RPG myself.

Yea, KotoR was boring and jumpy. Hated the interface.

I love Arcanum. It's horrendously buggy, interface has major problems, and graphics ain't so hot... But I still love it.

Guild Wars

and Morrowind

I love Arcanum. It's horrendously buggy, interface has major problems, and graphics ain't so hot... But I still love it.

ugh

They didn't exactly have the best business practice. And while Bloodlines was fun you have to admit that it was an extremely unpolished game.


It was, but I think that was just because it was rushed out of production. All computer games are like that nowadays. Besides they went bankrupt very soon after releasing it, so it's better they released it instead of it dying along with them.

Are orpgs counted? Coz if they are then GUILD WARS KICKS ASS!!! :D

Havn´t played very many, but Neverwinter Nights is addictive, though I find it kind of boring... I prefer Guild Wars, Vampires The Masquerade:Bloodlines, SW:KOTOR and SW:KOTOR2, in that order. VTMB is awesome, but nothing beats playing with thousands of others in GW.

Btw, europeans who play GW, my nick is Schnee Schnappi (w/mo 20) if you want to play.

I didn't much like the second. There was something missing... I'm not quite sure what. The fact was I just kept getting bored in DK2...

But hey it wasn't the same team who made the sequel... so yeah... I'm not surprised that I was a bit disappointed.

Perhaps the map that gets slowly corrupted? That's what I missed from DK1 to DK2. There was even a "preview" for DK3 on DK2's main menu, and it said something about going up to the surface. I kept looking at Bullfrog's website for a long time as they had a link to DK3 but eventually they cancelled production completely :( That game was great.

i bought NWN + shadows of undrentide

but kept making my comp restart so i uninstalled them :mp5:

I love Arcanum. It's horrendously buggy, interface has major problems, and graphics ain't so hot... But I still love it.

The interface isn't such a trouble when you play turn based.

And I never noticed any glaring bugs... :confused:

Though I did patch it before playing.

on GW my nick is Lofarnia Damida N/Me

ive not been playing very long but i cant get enough of it.

i even got married and had two kids (on the game even though i kinda didnt have a choice)
but i disinherited my son when he switched guilds :mad:

In the context of its time, The Elder Scrolls: Arena was the best CRPG I ever played... damn, but I had fun with that game! I liked Daggerfall and Morrowind, too... but I didn't have quite the level of straight out fun with them as I did with Arena. Hopefully Oblivion will be good, too.

I've also gotta mention ADOM.

For pen and paper, give me the straight 1st Edition D&D with just a Players Handbook, DM Guide, The Monster Manuals and a handful of hack and slay late 70's, early 80's modules like The Keep on the Borderlands. No complex role playing, no worlds based on novels, no Barbarian/Mage subclass crap... just straight underground adventuring where I use one of about 8 character classes to fight against stereotypical evil monsters, thank you!

For the record, a role-playing game is a game where the person adopts the persona of a character or party (rather than an army, population or team) and plays that character/party throughout the game. Diablo most certainly is a role-playing game. I don't know what some people's definition is, but that is the correct definition.

No. A roleplaying game is about playing a role. In Diablo you simply guide a bunch of pixels around a screen. You are not actually creating a personna and playing a role.

Under your definition FPS shooters are RPGs too.

To answer the original question, though...

Real RPG: Vampire: The Masquerade

CRPG: Either Daggerfall or BG1.

The interface isn't such a trouble when you play turn based.

And I never noticed any glaring bugs... :confused:

Though I did patch it before playing.

Let's hope it's good. I ordered it for less than $20 CAD from ebay since I heard such good things about it (and I miss Troika)

Let's hope it's good. I ordered it for less than $20 CAD from ebay since I heard such good things about it (and I miss Troika)

Oh, it's great...an underappreciated classic. One of those games that you start playing, and it becomes all that you play for a matter of weeks. Sure, the graphics are a bit primitive now, but that doesn't matter in the least.

Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars(( still think that Nintendo should team with Square to another one.))

Paper Mario(( didnt like the second one.))

mario and Lugi: superstar saga.(( Best game i have ever played on a handheld since pokemon))

Elder Scrolls Morrowind: (( Like a MMMRPG but only for you and no newbs to beg you for gold. plus youcan steal things.))

Star wars Knights of the old Republic 1 and 2(( even though 2 was way to freaking short))

For me:

The best paper-based roleplaying system was "Rifts".

The best CCG was "Vampire: The Eternal Struggle".

The best PC roleplay was "Sacred" (a lot like "Diablo", and "Champions of Norrath").

The best FPS 'roleplay' is "Area 51".

I've also gotta mention ADOM.

Yay! for ADOM (even though it is technically a roguelike, rather than an RPG).

For pen and paper, give me the straight 1st Edition D&D with just a Players Handbook, DM Guide, The Monster Manuals and a handful of hack and slay late 70's, early 80's modules like The Keep on the Borderlands. No complex role playing, no worlds based on novels, no Barbarian/Mage subclass crap... just straight underground adventuring where I use one of about 8 character classes to fight against stereotypical evil monsters, thank you!

Oooh. Playing a Basic module with 1st edition Advanced rules? A tad confusing, no?

Oooh. Playing a Basic module with 1st edition Advanced rules? A tad confusing, no?

Not really... those Modules have monster stats, decent maps, and a town layout and a basic plotline in there. Speaking for myself, thats all I need... a decent DM should be able to wing the rest of it. Thats partly my point, that TSR started releasing a whole lot of books that included more and more rules and character classes, and the modules started getting more and more complex with backgrounds and the like, that playing a game anymore requires more memorization than creativity. Nothing aggravates me more than a break up in the flow of a game while a rule gets debated or looked up, or watching a DM flip through a 200 page module because he doesn't know what scripted event is supposed to happen next.

Were there such things as 'Basic' modules anyway? Keep on the Borderlands was included with the Basic set but I don't think anything was specifically designed for Basic rules.

Maybe my attraction to those early modules is just nostalgia though... I did like Ravenloft a lot, too, and I'm sure that someone, somewhere, is putting out some good adventures these days. Likely I'm just getting old and complaining about modern times like old people do :(

Also, am I in a minority of one when I say that MMORPG's suck ass?

I just can't get into those things at all... either you're a n00b and just get abused, or you're more experienced and getting pestered by n00bs and idiots all the time. Hell, I couldn't even stomach XBox live for the month that I had it.

Chrono Trigger, easily.

i couldnt agree more.

Were there such things as 'Basic' modules anyway? Keep on the Borderlands was included with the Basic set but I don't think anything was specifically designed for Basic rules.

Modules B1-B12 and BSOLO were specifically designed for use with the Basic set, not to mention various other officially licensed and semi-official scenarios.