NationStates Jolt Archive

The other day i read that Australia (i think it was) would be accepting women in the armed forces, but strictly in non-combact posts. Do you think women cant fight in equal terms with men? Is this blatant sexism? Or are there more complex reasons why women aren´t allowed to fight alongside men?

The other day i read that Australia (i think it was) would be accepting women in the armed forces, but strictly in non-combact posts. Do you think women cant fight in equal terms with men? Is this blatant sexism? Or are there more complex reasons why women aren´t allowed to fight alongside men?
I refuse to go over this same ground again and yet again. :(

I refuse to go over this same ground again and yet again. :(
weel, i wouldn´t know if this as been adressed in a previous forum, would i?

If a recruit can carry the same weight as any soldier, and is as skilled at maintaining their weapons and their skills as any other soldier, I don't see whether the soldier possesses a 'Y' chromosome matters.

I am all for women in the military, in police, and firefighters.... so long as they can meet the same standards as the men.

i remember reading about one army that tried it only to find that the men kept wanting to protect the women so altogether it wasn't particularly efficient.

The other day i read that Australia (i think it was) would be accepting women in the armed forces, but strictly in non-combact posts. Do you think women cant fight in equal terms with men? Is this blatant sexism? Or are there more complex reasons why women aren´t allowed to fight alongside men?
If they pass the same tests and are proven qualified for their job, absolutely

Yes, assuming the different branches do not reduce the physical requirements for women.

Though remember the Navy during the Gulf War? Half the ships had to be sent back with too many pregnant women.

Whoooo! Chick fight! :D

i remember reading about one army that tried it only to find that the men kept wanting to protect the women so altogether it wasn't particularly efficient.
Source?

If they can pull their weight, let 'em. If male soldiers act like pricks over it, haul them up for discipline charges and rotate them away from female soldiers (ideally squads would be integrated but that'll take a while).

Yes, assuming the different branches do not reduce the physical requirements for women.

Though remember the Navy during the Gulf War? Half the ships had to be sent back with too many pregnant women.
Source?

All I can find is a ruff refferal to 5% of woman were on average pregnant

I could not find any news on change in deployment because of pregnancy

Source?

All I can find is a ruff refferal to 5% of woman were on average pregnant

I could not find any news on change in deployment because of pregnancy

True, but I being a little sarcasist on the second part ;)

Source?

well, i honestly can't remember if i read it or someone told me about it (probably my dad, a long time ago).

this is the best source i can find, which debunks all of it! ;-)

http://userpages.aug.com/captbarb/myths.html

True, but I being a little sarcasist on the second part ;)
Ah ok :) lost in forum translation lol

If a recruit can carry the same weight as any soldier, and is as skilled at maintaining their weapons and their skills as any other soldier, I don't see whether the soldier possesses a 'Y' chromosome matters.

I am all for women in the military, in police, and firefighters.... so long as they can meet the same standards as the men.

I agree 100%

If a woman can pass exactly the same training as a man, then she is just as fit to be a soldier -- unless you want to somehow insinuate that current training is too easy or something. Which I'm sure some would easily disagree with.

If a female is physically and mentally capable enough, then I see no good reason to not allow them to have combat posts. I am sure there are plenty of women just as or more capable than many males. There are definitely women who'd be better in combat than me, a male. (I'm a whimp.)

I believe it was the Russians that had integrated a number of women to combat roles, particularly the role as snper which they were very adept at.

I do not believe that there are still cases where one gender has more rights than another. This needs to change!

Ok, I got no problem with women being in the military. I live in america and as far as I know they're allowed everywhere cept combat roles and stuff. However there are certain uh, risks, that women face when fighting in the front lines. Now I suspect this is why america ain't fully put women in the military yet, but then alot of em went "Oh you men are all being sexist pigs, etc etc etc etc". Allota women I knew went all like "We can take care of ourselves and stuff" so I figure if they wanna put themselves in the risk go ahead. But you pull your god damn weight around just like everyone elese and don't expect no speacil treatment, you all said you could take care 'f yourselves.

However there are certain uh, risks, that women face when fighting in the front lines

Anybody in the front line faces risks.

Source?
I think it happened in the israeli army

i remember reading about one army that tried it only to find that the men kept wanting to protect the women so altogether it wasn't particularly efficient.
This was found to be the case, where men would rightly leave a wounded male and continue the advance many would stop to help an injured female.
So mixed units may not work so well. But don't see why there shouldn't be all female units.
Israel has mixed units but they are pretty highly motivated and I am not sure if infantry units are mixed.
But as long as they can do the job and do not adversly affect that of others why not.

A friend of mine and I got into a discussion about this before. He was totaly against women in the military. I on the other hand was alittle more open minded. I think women should be alowed in the military however I have a few reservations about it.

First of all I would say that a pure male squad would act differently (team spirit) then one that was intergrated. Now I think that the brotherly bond shared by squad mates would be changed or and be different then what it is today and in the past. I also fear that the males of the squad may jeperdize the mission if females were present.

Second of all men and women are different. Men are generaly taller, weigh more, and have more muscle mass then women. Men are designed more for war then women are.

Thirdly I have heard of military quotas that demand a certain percentage of females pass training even if they are inadequate. This needs to stop for certain. Also women must be able to fullfill the same physical demands of a man. This includes all of the pt stuff they do in basic.

And lastly having women soldiers captured and tortured or worse on tv would be more demoralizing than if a man was caught...

The only problem is when the men are jerks and start sexually harrassing the women. So I think has long as they are strong enough and can handle the posiblility of harrassment, then they should join the army. I actually know some women in my town that found their husband in the army.

The other day i read that Australia (i think it was) would be accepting women in the armed forces, but strictly in non-combact posts. Do you think women cant fight in equal terms with men? Is this blatant sexism? Or are there more complex reasons why women aren´t allowed to fight alongside men?

Australia is only doing this because men aren't joining in the numbers due to Iraq conflict so they are "getting desperate".

I think it happened in the israeli army
That’s a little broad … Care to point to an instance? Because all I am finding on it is the fact that women are in combat there … and apparently doing a good job

The other day i read that Australia (i think it was) would be accepting women in the armed forces, but strictly in non-combact posts. Do you think women cant fight in equal terms with men? Is this blatant sexism? Or are there more complex reasons why women aren´t allowed to fight alongside men?

Can women run as long as a man with 50 pounds worth of equipment on them?

No? Shouldn't be in the field.

Canada City']Can women run as long as a man with 50 pounds worth of equipment on them?

No? Shouldn't be in the field.
Some can
Should they be allowed?

Canada City']Can women run as long as a man with 50 pounds worth of equipment on them?

No? Shouldn't be in the field.

Can you outrun every women you know?

No? Shouldn't be in any field.

Can you outrun every women you know?

No? Shouldn't be in any field.
Exactly … just because there are less woman that can average does not detract from the women that CAN perform to the required standards or better

Not all men can pass those standards either

Does that mean all men should not be allowed?

If a given person can't pass standards...no, they shouldn't be allowed.
Regardless of race, creed, or sex.

The military's job is to field the most effective units possible in order to achieve a mission (The mission is the first priority, above all else). Being "fully integrated" for the sake of looking good and being politically correct is not only fool hardy, but potentially dangerous. If this means a given unit is all guys or all gals, or some combination of the two, should be decided on an individual basis, based on the performance of those troops individually and as a unit.

Am I saying women are less capable? No. Hell, I know some who can best me on the PFT. I am saying however, that the military shouldn't shoot for a forced integration (We must have X number or Y ratio in a given unit)

If a given person can't pass standards...no, they shouldn't be allowed.
Regardless of race, creed, or sex.

The military's job is to field the most effective units possible in order to achieve a mission (The mission is the first priority, above all else). Being "fully integrated" for the sake of looking good and being politically correct is not only fool hardy, but potentially dangerous. If this means a given unit is all guys or all gals, or some combination of the two, should be decided on an individual basis, based on the performance of those troops individually and as a unit.

Am I saying women are less capable? No. Hell, I know some who can best me on the PFT. I am saying however, that the military shouldn't shoot for a forced integration (We must have X number or Y ratio in a given unit)
Conversely we should not hold out for just tradition sake I have never personally seen a competent study on the effects of the various integration styles (though I am sure they are probably classified)

For starters,
Australia has had women in all three services (Navy, Army, Air Force) for quite a long time now, (at least late 80's/early 90's). However, they have not been able to join COMBAT units. The definition of COMBAT units that Australia has used is:(ones which women aren't allowed in)
Navy - Clearance Divers (think American SEALs/Marines)
Air Force - Ground Defence (infantry of the Air Force)
Army - this is a little more complicated and I may not be fully correct
- not allowed to be any part of any direct combat unit, such as Infantry, Cavalry (Armour), Artillery, Combat Engineers, I think thats about it.

The current debate here is whether women should be allowed to serve in supporting roles within the Infantry, Cavalry, Artillery etc as administration and non-direct combat roles. Currently, I think that they are now able to.
Aha - i found it http://www.defencejobs.gov.au - then click FAQ
QUOTE I'm female. Are there any jobs I can't apply for?
Approximately 97% of positions in the ADF are available to females. The positions that are currently not available to females are:

Navy

Clearance Divers

Army

All Royal Australian Infantry Corps
All Royal Australian Armoured Corps
All Royal Australian Artillery Corps
Combat Engineers (Combat Engineers are defined as those employed in Combat Engineer Regiments and does not include Construction Units, Engineer Design Units and Facilities Management Units, Geomatic Engineers and Illustrators).

Air Force

Ground Defence Officers Airfield Defence Guards
Aircraft Surface Finisher (due to exposure to embryotoxic chemicals)
END QUOTE
From the bits and pieces I've read, there have been some military studies into women fulfilling these roles. One of the studies I have personally read was finding out if women could be Clearance Divers, and unfortunately it was found that the physical stresses and expectations are just too much for even the most powerful women, (as well as around 10-15% of all men), simply due to physiological differences in muscle size and skeletal construction (men have bigger, thicker bones).

damn, i cant find the article I read in The Australian (broadsheet newspaper) by a retired Israeli army officer on non-physiological reasons for women not to become front-line combat troops. It basically summed up that when women are in danger/injured, men will generally try to assist women, ignoring other priorities/mission. They also have a generally negative effect on squad morale, as they are, through no fault of their own, weaker, so the other (male) members of the squad have to pick up the slack for any physical activities.

Anyway, I could go on, but my own personal view is that it is right the way it is now in the Australian Defence Force. I think women should be spared from the horrors of front-line combat.
It isn't blatant sexism, it is recognition that women are not suited for frontline combat. There are plenty of other jobs where my female compatriots can serve their country alongside their male counterparts, where their inherent differences to men are an asset to the service(s).

In terms of grunt work, men are obviously stronger than women and better able to use that strength in combat, though women have more endurance.

If it's just pointing and clicking though, as many combat positions are these days, there's pretty much equal fighting ability. Women may even have the edge with generally greater dexterity and attention to detail. Also if civilian deaths are going to continue to be as damaging to the US's image as they have been, I'd rather have a woman at the gunnery with a sense of wartime etiquette. Being a man who's played fps, I can acknowledge that guys just like to blow shit up.

QUOTE - Jeruselem-Possible SOF spammer
Australia is only doing this because men aren't joining in the numbers due to Iraq conflict so they are "getting desperate".
END QUOTE
This is quite inaccurate, please quote a reliable source. It might be the case in the USA (I honestly don't know). But it is NOT the case here. By the way, so Americans are aware, we have less than 1000 personnel operational IN Iraq.

We have had recruiting shortfalls in many areas (but not combat units as far as I am aware), but this is the result of poor recruitment planning, high personnel turnover, job-specific recruitment problems and other general reasons (downward trends in numbers of the population interested in a career in the defence force and so on.)

I was a soldier in the US army in the eighties.and it was a lot more restrictive than it is now. I see no reason why ( and they are in combat situations now) they shouldnt be allowed. LOts of innaccurate crap has been given as reasons they have periods. so?, pregnancies and that takes two to tango there all sorts of stupid garbage. But women have already been in the bunkers as nurses and volunteers but they hardly receive any notice for it because they were just nurses. Sounds fair? I hope not. We have already proven ourselves, we go airbourne, train male troops as drill instructors, fly jets(combat related), serve on aircraft carriers, and even if a woman is pregnant if her unit comes under attack she will pick up her weapon and defend it.

Disarm the military and you don't have these problems!

Disarm the military and you don't have these problems!

You do have the problem of making yourself an easy target though

You do have the problem of making yourself an easy target though
Indeed...but isn´t the feminine psyche a little unprepared to systematic violence?

Indeed...but isn´t the feminine psyche a little unprepared to systematic violence?

Everyone has the potential for violence within them. Its just a case of whether that potential can be brought to the forefront and used in a disciplined way. I see no reason why this cant be the case in women

Everyone has the potential for violence within them. Its just a case of whether that potential can be brought to the forefront and used in a disciplined way. I see no reason why this cant be the case in women
i don´t know if i tottaly agree with that...although women ara capable of acts of homicidal behaviour, for instance, they tend to use insidious methods, like poison and such...rarely (as far i know) guns or knives

i don´t know if i tottaly agree with that...although women ara capable of acts of homicidal behaviour, for instance, they tend to use insidious methods, like poison and such...rarely (as far i know) guns or knives

I dont know where you're getting your information from but what difference does it make what methods used (although I highly doubt your examples) as long as the man or woman shows a willingness to harm others.

Indeed...but isn´t the feminine psyche a little unprepared to systematic violence?
"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned." Come on... how could the military pass that up? :D

But seriously... if the recruit can show that they can do the job, does it really matter what sexual equipment they've got built in? I think intelligence, more than raw strength, is what's becoming important in modern warfare... not that good physical condition isn't important, mind you.

As for the danger of being captured by the enemy... when it comes right down to it, why is it any 'less awful' for a male soldier to be captured and tortured than a female one? They're both soldiers, they're both people... IMO it's horrible no matter who the victim is.

i don´t know if i tottaly agree with that...although women ara capable of acts of homicidal behaviour, for instance, they tend to use insidious methods, like poison and such...rarely (as far i know) guns or knives

Obviously, you've never seen a gang fight. Women do possess the ability and the intestinal fortitude to fire weapons and kill each other.

You've also not studied the army of Israel, in which women are most definitely sent out, armed, to patrol.

So, basically -- the biggest complaint that there is in putting the women in the military is that that men are unable to keep their minds on their jobs?

The other day i read that Australia (i think it was) would be accepting women in the armed forces, but strictly in non-combact posts. Do you think women cant fight in equal terms with men? Is this blatant sexism? Or are there more complex reasons why women aren´t allowed to fight alongside men?


Well women should be allowed into the millitary, but it can be more dangerous for a woman. If they get captured there is a high chance a woman will get raped. This is terrible enough but it could put the 'troop' in danger if someone tried to stop her. It has been proven (in a study about 10-12 years ago so it could be outdated) that men seeing women dying has a greater pschological effect then seeing men being killed/tortured etc.
Women can fight in equal terms with men--hand to hand contact isn't really done any more so that isn't really the issue.

Well women should be allowed into the millitary, but it can be more dangerous for a woman. If they get captured there is a high chance a woman will get raped. This is terrible enough but it could put the 'troop' in danger if someone tried to stop her. It has been proven (in a study about 10-12 years ago so it could be outdated) that men seeing women dying has a greater pschological effect then seeing men being killed/tortured etc.
Women can fight in equal terms with men--hand to hand contact isn't really done any more so that isn't really the issue.
One ... I would love to see this study

Two... I would like to see your data supporting the claim that woman have more chance to get sexualy abused then men in a capture situation

Well women should be allowed into the millitary, but it can be more dangerous for a woman. If they get captured there is a high chance a woman will get raped. This is terrible enough but it could put the 'troop' in danger if someone tried to stop her. It has been proven (in a study about 10-12 years ago so it could be outdated) that men seeing women dying has a greater pschological effect then seeing men being killed/tortured etc.
Women can fight in equal terms with men--hand to hand contact isn't really done any more so that isn't really the issue.
Well, in WW2 in the siege of stalinegrad only men thought, and the germans and the russians did much worst things to their prisioners than rape.

Well, in WW2 in the siege of stalinegrad only men thought, and the germans and the russians did much worst things to their prisioners than rape.


Most definitely but if you had all of that and had rape on top of it...
I do think that women should be allowed in the army but there are more questions to be considered other than the obvious

Most definitely but if you had all of that and had rape on top of it...
I do think that women should be allowed in the army but there are more questions to be considered other than the obvious
And men cant be sodomized?

And men cant be sodomized?

But would that occur in the same numbers as that of the rape of females?

i belive that women should be able to fight in the armed forces and that sexism is wrong

Should women be allowed in the military?

Answer: Yes. Why?

a)The men need a little -- ah, nightly diversion -- to keep them mentally fresh

b)The men need to eat

c)The men's clothes are occasionally torn and must be mended... also, the clothing must be laundered.

hehe

But would that occur in the same numbers as that of the rape of females?
Human ability for abusing his fellow men is unlimited

But would that occur in the same numbers as that of the rape of females?
I don’t know there are lots of claims that rape of females would happen more but so far I have yet to see a shred of proof

Human ability for abusing his fellow men is unlimited

But would an average attacker or torturer use rape as often with a man as a woman?

But would an average attacker or torturer use rape as often with a man as a woman?
Of course.
Rape assaults the most sacred layer of manhood. As a torture technic, is probably one of the most effective.

Should women be allowed in the military?

Answer: Yes. Why?

a)The men need a little -- ah, nightly diversion -- to keep them mentally fresh

b)The men need to eat

c)The men's clothes are occasionally torn and must be mended... also, the clothing must be laundered.

hehe

Oink oink.

But would an average attacker or torturer use rape as often with a man as a woman?

Probably not. I mean, it never happens in prisons, right?






....

Well women should be allowed into the millitary, but it can be more dangerous for a woman. If they get captured there is a high chance a woman will get raped. This is terrible enough but it could put the 'troop' in danger if someone tried to stop her. It has been proven (in a study about 10-12 years ago so it could be outdated) that men seeing women dying has a greater pschological effect then seeing men being killed/tortured etc.
Women can fight in equal terms with men--hand to hand contact isn't really done any more so that isn't really the issue.

Women in the Militar? YES

Women in the Frontlines? HELL NO!!!

Sorry ladies. But, a battlefield IS a man's world. And God knows many men would rather not be there.

Oink oink.

(seriously)

was that a bad/deletable/banable post... (is that what the "oink oink" means?)?

looks around

Am I becoming paranoid that NS Big Brother is watching?

hehe

(seriously)

was that a bad/deletable/banable post... (is that what the "oink oink" means?)?

looks around

Am I becoming paranoid that NS Big Brother is watching?

hehe
Being paranoid doesn´t mean that they aren´t really after you

Should women be allowed in the military?

Answer: Yes. Why?

a)The men need a little -- ah, nightly diversion -- to keep them mentally fresh

b)The men need to eat

c)The men's clothes are occasionally torn and must be mended... also, the clothing must be laundered.

hehe

IM assuming youre kidding right? Chauvinism like this cant possibly still exist? Oh the troops are fed in chow halls and most of the cooks are men, the tailors are more likely men, and nightly diversions are highly discouraged and can cause trouble. YOu want a piece of ass --go pay for it.

I don’t know there are lots of claims that rape of females would happen more but so far I have yet to see a shred of proof


Were you raised in a freakin box? Screw that "prove it" -- show me "UNBIASED statistics" crap. It's freakin Common Sense! My God!

Were you raised in a freakin box? Screw that "prove it" -- show me "UNBIASED statistics" crap. It's freakin Common Sense! My God!
Lol so why did you not just say "I have a feeling ... no data or proof ... but I have common sence (though I am sure if I said my common sense says that we will see a simmilar statistics between male and female sexual abuse you will call it nonsensical)"
Appeals to common sense is nothing but a copout
And there is a reason they are sometimes considered logical fallicies

Were you raised in a freakin box? Screw that "prove it" -- show me "UNBIASED statistics" crap. It's freakin Common Sense! My God!

Face the facts..women are already in combat zones serving the military and so far I havent heard of any rapes..hell we even had a few female pows so far and no reports of rapes there. That would be one of the unfortunate horrors of war and our men have suffered there own so that argument is a can of crap.

The other day i read that Australia (i think it was) would be accepting women in the armed forces, but strictly in non-combact posts. Do you think women cant fight in equal terms with men? Is this blatant sexism? Or are there more complex reasons why women aren´t allowed to fight alongside men?

Yes women can fight gender its not a problem. I think both women and man have right to attempt to all post in armed forces the test for decide if you are competent.

A certain man said, "I know the shapes of Reason and of Woman. Reason is four-cornered, and will not move even in an extreme situation. Woman is round. One can say that she does not distinguish between good and evil or right and wrong and tumbles into any place at all."

A man by the name of Takagi got into an argument with three farmers in the neighborhood, was soundly beaten out in the fields, and returned home. His wife said to him, "Haven't you forgotten about the matter of death?"
"Definitely not!" he replied. His wife retorted, "At any rate, a man dies only once. Of the various ways of dying-dying of disease, being cut down in battle, seppuku or being beheaded-to die ignomiously would be a shame," and went outside. She soon returned, carefully put the children to bed, prepared some torches, dressed herself for battle after nightfall, and then said, "When I went out to survey the scene a bit earlier, it seemed that the three men went into one place for a discussion. Now is the right time. Let's go quickly!"
So saying, they went out with the husband in the lead, burning torches and wearing short swords. They broke into their opponents' place and dispersed them, both husband and wife slashing about and killing two of the men and wounding the other. The husband was later ordered to commit seppuku.
-Hagakure

Also, during certain battles, women were known to don the armor of their samurai husbands and charge into battle.

i remember reading about one army that tried it only to find that the men kept wanting to protect the women so altogether it wasn't particularly efficient.

Isreal have women and dis army is good.

Lol so why did you not just say "I have a feeling ... no data or proof ... but I have common sence (though I am sure if I said my common sense says that we will see a simmilar statistics between male and female sexual abuse you will call it nonsensical)"
Appeals to common sense is nothing but a copout
And there is a reason they are sometimes considered logical fallicies


Yep common sense is taken too lightly nowadays, what can I say.

Face the facts..women are already in combat zones serving the military and so far I havent heard of any rapes..hell we even had a few female pows so far and no reports of rapes there. That would be one of the unfortunate horrors of war and our men have suffered there own so that argument is a can of crap.

Glad to hear that. I'm not saying that women shouldn't be allowed in combat because they might get raped if captured by the enemy.. I sure hope they take that into account as something that could possibly happen along with many other things, when they talk to that military recruiter.

Yep common sense is taken too lightly nowadays, what can I say.
Naw I find logical fallicies to be treated too lightly ... thats just common sense :rolleyes: :p

Though at least ya admit you dont have any proof ...

And without clear proof I personaly see no reason to justify treating over half our population differently in this case

Again for me thats just common sense :p

Naw I find logical fallicies to be treated too lightly ... thats just common sense :rolleyes: :p

Though at least ya admit you dont have any proof ...

And without clear proof I personaly see no reason to justify treating over half our population differently in this case

Again for me thats just common sense :p

Did you think I was saying women shouldn't be allowed in combat situations? No, no wasn't saying that at all. I think women should even be drafted if there ever comes one again.

Women in the Militar? YES

Women in the Frontlines? HELL NO!!!

Sorry ladies. But, a battlefield IS a man's world. And God knows many men would rather not be there.


Right.

And the kitchen is a women's world, eh?

:rolleyes:

(seriously)

was that a bad/deletable/banable post... (is that what the "oink oink" means?)?

looks around

Am I becoming paranoid that NS Big Brother is watching?

hehe

If it were bannable to be a chauvinist, there'd be about 20 people, two gerbils, a monkey and a cat on this site. ;)

I didn't think it was trolling; was I wrong?

Right.

And the kitchen is a women's world, eh?

:rolleyes:

Quick, no cheating: Name five famous female chefs.

I know I can name five males.

;) Why is it the most famous gourmet chefs are males? Could it be they belong in the kitchen and not women? ;)

I've come to the conclusion that everybody on the nationstates forum are all idiots except me.

Quick, no cheating: Name five famous female chefs.

I know I can name five males.

;) Why is it the most famous gourmet chefs are males? Could it be they belong in the kitchen and not women? ;)

I can't name any famous chefs, male or female. ;)

It's because.. um... they don't want to cook if they don't get paid? >__>

America's been doing it for years. If a person meets the same physical standards and abilities set by their superiors for all recruits then it is a disgraceful and shamefull to dishonour our soldiers by denying them the right to defend their country.

Rotovia's Two Cents...

I've come to the conclusion that everybody on the nationstates forum are all idiots except me.

and me

why don't you just allow them everywhere but the front lines

and me

why don't you just allow them everywhere but the front lines

YES! that has been the case for 10 years at least!
read the rest of the forum dammit

Anyways, lets start pulling out some good sexist jokes :)
Q. Why are women's bridal dresses white?
A. To match the rest of the goods in the kitchen

Q. What do you do if your dishwasher stops working?
A. Give her a black eye and tell her to get on with it
... :D

and me

why don't you just allow them everywhere but the front lines

We've been doing that for a very long time. This goes back to me saying everybody here is a moron.

Anyone play Ace Combat 5: The Unsung War? I think Nagase could be used to confirm both sides of the argument.

pros:
Loyal wingman.
Usually gets the most kills in the game, after you of course.
Gave you command of the squadron.
Isn't Goose.
Isn't Iceman
When she punches out, she lives.
Captures the soldiers sent in to capture her armed only w/ her Beretta sidearm.
Inadvertantly names the squadron. (Razgriz)
Callsign...Edge vs. Goose? Edge
isn't the only one who gets annoyed by Chopper.
covers your six.
Her voice actress was 'Blue' from Wolf's Rain.

cons:
gets distracted easily.
Gets shot down, and causes the original squadron captain to get shot down.
her whole side story can get annoying.
steals some of your kills.
probably the reason Chopper gets shot down.
during missions, she does a Troi(Star Trek) ie. pointing out the bleeding obvious.
overthinks her role in the war.
says she'll cover you and then you get shot down.

if you've playted the game, you should get this. if not, i think i spelled it out pretty ok.