NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/08/23/softwood_retaliation_2005_08_23.html
Trade Minister Jim Peterson is examining sectors where Canada could impose its own tariffs and place maximum pressure on the U.S.
I'm so glad that our federal gov't are doing something about the game playings by the American gov't over softwood.
Since May 2002, U.S. Customs has collected $5 billion in duties. That's when American trade officials concluded softwood imports were being unfairly subsidized by the Canadian government.

There have been numerous appeals to international tribunals including NAFTA and WTO. Canada has claimed victory but the United States has shown no inclination to lift the duties and return the money.
Face it Bush Administration, NAFTA and the WTO said you're a loser. Give us our money back or free trade is in trouble. If you say Canada is being unfair, then how about you. You wanted free trade, now you complain about it.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/08/23/softwood_retaliation_2005_08_23.html

I'm so glad that our federal gov't are doing something about the game playings by the American gov't over softwood.

Face it Bush Administration, NAFTA and the WTO said you're a loser. Give us our money back or free trade is in trouble. If you say Canada is being unfair, then how about you. You wanted free trade, now you complain about it.
What has free trade and a true market ecomomy got to do with the US. Look at what they did with steel!
But they don't like other nations to do the same to them!!

How much of a shit head do you have to be to be told by three diffrent groups (WTO, NAFTA, and the Canadian government) to pay up the $5 billion you owe in illegal duties and even then you still claim that we are subsidizing you softwood lumber industry. We are nice enough to give you a way out that lets you keep your already pitiful dignity and yet you still stand by your false truths.
Oh wait this is Bush so never mind this is to be expected.

I think the Americans want our $5 billion to pay for their war expenses.

Ya most likely to prepare for next months invasion of some midleeastern nation we've never heard of because supposedly they have WMDs or are harboring terrorists.

Oh wait a minute... since we got pipes feeding the Americans with water, gas, and oil. Why don't we just cut them? hmmmmmmm... :D

Oh wait a minute... since we got pipes feeding the Americans with water, gas, and oil. Why don't we just cut them? hmmmmmmm... :D


Screw that! How about we nationlize the US companies in Canada which run those pipelines and such. Then we can cut of their utilities and resource supply. :)

Oh wait a minute... since we got pipes feeding the Americans with water, gas, and oil. Why don't we just cut them? hmmmmmmm... :D


Dont forget cutting off the power to California, which surprising enough they seem to think were screwing them on, even though they agreed to the contracted price.

Screw that! How about we nationlize the US companies in Canada which run those pipelines and such. Then we can cut of their utilities and resource supply. :)No do it the US way, slap a huge duty on the export of utilities. where the hell else are they going to get it from?

No do it the US way, slap a huge duty on the export of utilities. where the hell else are they going to get it from?

That is something I have been proposing for a while. In the case of electricy exports especially from the BC power grid its the same as the lumber tariff since water rental rates are exectly like the stumpage rate. One difference I propse we collect it and set it so freaking high as to kill energy exports to the US outright. After that we can dry up the fossil fuel and mineral supply. :)

No do it the US way, slap a huge duty on the export of utilities. where the hell else are they going to get it from?
Nah, cutting the utilities would leave a whole bunch of USian whining. Something I would love to see. (yes i'm evil)

Screw that! How about we nationlize the US companies in Canada which run those pipelines and such. Then we can cut of their utilities and resource supply. :)
Haha, great idea! :D

We can't actually destroy the exchange-ya gotta remember something. Not only do they use our resources, they also do kinda pay for them. Certainly, we should make them pay more with hiked tariffs, but we don't want to punish ourselves along with them.

:)

Bring it on, ya Greenland-being-next-to, Celine Dion-harboring, Quebec-having, Canadians! We can take all a y'all.

That is something I have been proposing for a while. In the case of electricy exports especially from the BC power grid its the same as the lumber tariff since water rental rates are exectly like the stumpage rate. One difference I propse we collect it and set it so freaking high as to kill energy exports to the US outright. After that we can dry up the fossil fuel and mineral supply. :)
Off thread but I've been to BC a few times and loved it.

Nah, cutting the utilities would leave a whole bunch of USian whining. Something I would love to see. (yes i'm evil)



It only seems like you guys whining right now...

I wouldnt hold your breath, they never paid the damages money awarded to Nicaragua when the US was convicted of international terrorism by the World Court either.

I think Canada shouldl announce significant tarrifs on fertilizers, car parts, and integrated circuits/computers. These look like the primary products that are exported to Canada from republican states according to US. Census.

That should put the heat squarely on the White House political side to get this thing dealt with.

I'd also like to see duties announced on exported energy products as well, as that'll put heat on the hawks in the White House as well. If they want to continue foreign excursions, they'd better play fairly at home. Unfortunately, I don't know how feasible/likely that is. Canada makes a heck of a lot of money from those exports, and you might see a resurgence of the Western Separation movement.

Canada might be able to get away with levying significant tarriffs on energy products imported into Canada, even if said products have a final destination somewhere else (Alaskan oil? Sure.. but using a pipeline that crosses Canadian territory will be expensive) but I don't know what kind of agreements are currently in place around that.

Of course, ideally these would all simply be announced tarrifs, with a deadline of 60 or 90 days before coming into effect, thus allowing the US to sort out the whole softwood lumber thing before any of them come into effect and do any damage to either economy.

Incidentally, if you're an American, you might want to consider writing your congressman and asking why American lumber companies haven't had to upgrade their technology in the last decade and when the government will stop protecting them from having to compete.

Screw that! How about we nationlize the US companies in Canada which run those pipelines and such. Then we can cut of their utilities and resource supply. :)

Why not just invade them, like in the South Park movie or Canadian Bacon?

Blame Canada! :sniper:

Times have changed,
Our kids are getting worse
They won't obey their parents,
They just want to fart and curse. Should we blame the government, or blame society, or should we blame the images on tv No!
Blame Canada! Blame Canada

With all their beady little eyes,
their flapping heads so full of lies
Blame Canada!
Blame Canada!
We need to form a full assault, it's Canada's fault! Don't blame me, for my son Stan, He saw the darn cartoon, and now he's off to
join the klan!> And my boy eric once, had my picture on his shelf, but now when I see him, he tells me to fuck myself>

Well, Blame Canada!

It seems that everything's gone wrong since
Canada came along
Blame Canada!
Blame Canada! They're not even a real country anyway. My son could of been a doctor or a lawyer, it's a true, Instead he burned up like a piggie on a barbecue> Should we blame the matches? Should we blame the fire, or the doctor who allowed him to expire. Heck no!
Blame Canada!
Blame Canada!
With all their hockey hubaloo and that bitch Anne Murray too. Blame Canada!
Shame on Canada!

The smut we must stop
The trash we must smash
Laughter and fun
must all be undone
We must blame them and cause a fuss
Before somebody thinks of blaming us!

It's uncanny how some of the hard-core american conservatives run for the hills and never show up in thread like this. :D


American better pay up.

Hmm funny enough I find this thread hilarious but then again I have an aunt and uncle as well as 4 cousins in Canada

Sooo I hope some Americans can get on besides me and we can see some type of conflict :D

Bring it on, ya Greenland-being-next-to, Celine Dion-harboring, Quebec-having, Canadians! We can take all a y'all.

Ah, but what runs your fancy tanks and planes? With texas tea down to the tea leaves, Albertan and Newfoundlander oil are your lifeblood.

It's uncanny how some of the hard-core american conservatives run for the hills and never show up in thread like this. :D

I was thinking the exact same thing, my friend.

Okay, here's a USian's perspective:

I love you Canadians! Such an entertaining thread, and yes, Politicians in the US are used to getting away with whatever the hell they want, so they're going to fight this thing to the death, and I hope that Canada sues and wins. Hopefully while I'm studying abroad 2 years from now, though ;)

Oh wait a minute... since we got pipes feeding the Americans with water, gas, and oil. Why don't we just cut them? hmmmmmmm... :D

Because the states that buy all that from you are blue states, states that did not support the administration that is currently screwing you over. You wouldn't want to ruin the goodwill you still have in this country, would you?

Because the states that buy all that from you are blue states, states that did not support the administration that is currently screwing you over. You wouldn't want to ruin the goodwill you still have in this country, would you?
Unfortunately, it's a blue state lobby that put these illegal tariffs in place in the first place.

And they did begin under the Clinton administration, so it's not just Bush...

What Bush did was take the money they levied in tariff and gave it as subsidy to the US lumber industry. This is illegal under NAFTA (along with the tariffs in the first place) and under WTO rules.

Start pumping black paint instead of oil.

Unfortunately, it's a blue state lobby that put these illegal tariffs in place in the first place.

And they did begin under the Clinton administration, so it's not just Bush...

What Bush did was take the money they levied in tariff and gave it as subsidy to the US lumber industry. This is illegal under NAFTA (along with the tariffs in the first place) and under WTO rules.

Ah. The article made no mention of that. It said since 2002, so I assumed that that was when this all began, roughly.

Ah. The article made no mention of that. It said since 2002, so I assumed that that was when this all began, roughly.
well, 2002 is when the Baird Ammendment became a law and the subsidies started.

Hey Canada, we totally sent that check a couple days ago. It should be in your mailbox any time now. Don't worry dudes!

Hey Canada, we totally sent that check a couple days ago. It should be in your mailbox any time now. Don't worry dudes!

Quality reference.

Quality reference.

:D

What happened to you Canada? You used to be cool.

:p

:D

What happened to you Canada? You used to be cool.

:p
You have to excuse us, we're a little bit stressed.

It seems we have misplaced a 5 billion dollars check. :p

Canadian Battleship: A speed boat with a machinegun mounted on it.

:D

What happened to you Canada? You used to be cool.

:p

Canada still cool. You pay us later. LATER!

Canada still cool. You pay us later. LATER!

lol

That was a good Simpsons episode.

Canadian Battleship: A speed boat with a machinegun mounted on it.

Hey man, don't knock our navy. It's very hard to get that many Canadians on a boat without fishing rods and beer.

Bring it on, ya Greenland-being-next-to, Celine Dion-harboring, Quebec-having, Canadians! We can take all a y'all.

You're the ones harbouring Celine Dion...she lives in Las Vegas. Keep her, please.

You're the ones harbouring Celine Dion...she lives in Las Vegas. Keep her, please.

*is ashamed* :(

*is ashamed* :(
There there, it's not your fault. *hug*

There there, it's not your fault. *hug*


Thanks :fluffle: - I actually live in Vegas too. Oh well at least none of my dollars will ever go to support Celine Dion Inc.

When I was a kid growing up in New York State, we use to call Canada "the monkey on the United States' back".

Well, times have changed, because as we've grown older and more mature, we've come to hold a deep and profound respect for monkeys. :D

It's uncanny how some of the hard-core american conservatives run for the hills and never show up in thread like this. :D

American better pay up.
I am an american, and I think we should pay up, with an apology letter to every canadian (assuming cost of paper and delivery, still WAY less then we owe you), and agree to rightfully thank you and as well reciprocate in kind by actually holding to our contracts. But hey, I am a canadian at heart, if not in location, so I am somewhat biased ^.^
I love canada ^.^

But seriously, has anyone looked into the U.S. claim as to whether Canada is unfairly subsidizing it's exported softwood lumber?

Ya the WTO and NAFTA have looked into it and have sided with Canada.

It's uncanny how some of the hard-core american conservatives run for the hills and never show up in thread like this. :D

I think you over estimate our interest in your concerns. I mean, seriously.

American better pay up.

Ok, this seriously got me laughing :D What exactly are you going to do about it? :D "Or else we're gonna... um... not... ___... um... yeah!"

In fairness, the United States' benefits from our trade with Canada and anything that hurts our trade relations adversely affects us. But it's not even close the other way around. You guys (Canadians) are totally dependent on us economically. That's your quagmire; any sanctions you place on us would be cutting off your nose to spite your face. you can't hurt us economically without hurting yourselves three times over. I mean, hey, I'm sorry that's the case, but that's how it is.

But look, as I said, we American's don't know very much at all about the issue at play here because we're just not being affected like you guys are. So what's the deal with this softwood lumber? Specifically, is there any creedance to the U.S. claims that Canada is unfairly subsidizing the lumber? Why or why not?

Ya the WTO and NAFTA have looked into it and have sided with Canada.

Right, but I'm not going to just agree with you because some political body does no more than I'm going to agree with whosoever is President just because his administration is in the White House. Seriously--have you even looked into it, or are you just taking someone's word on it just because they say so? How can you support a position that you haven't even heard discussed?

sigh :)

Canadian Battleship: A speed boat with a machinegun mounted on it.
American Battleship: A yacht with weapons that mistakes a lighthouse for another boat. ^_^

The big argument regarding softwood lumber is the difference between how the US system works and the Canadian system works.

In the US, timber rights are auctioned off. Timber rights tend to be privately owned.
In Canada, stumpage fees are set by the province, because most of our forests are provincial or crown land, especially the ones in BC. (Note privately owned timber lots in Canada are exempt from the tariffs, at least the ones in Nova Scotia.)

The US argument is that the stumpage fees are too low, providing a de facto subsidy to the Canadian logging industry. Canada argues that they're not a subsidy, and Canadian companies have higher costs because of environmental requirements/costs that should be included as part of the cost. Thus the situation has been passed on to a number of arbitration panels. Note that the NAFTA panel includes both Canadian and Americans on the board, and the most recent decision found for Canada unanimously.

For an excellent synopsis on the issue, see:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/softwood_lumber/

For a longer paper, see:

http://www.ryerson.ca/econ/ConferencePapers/rjb%20mt%20sl%20paper%20draft%201%20051002.pdf

http://magazine.novaserve.ns.ca/article504.html

I think you over estimate our interest in your concerns. I mean, seriously.Americans have never failed to post enthusiasticaly on other Canadian themed threads.

Ok, this seriously got me laughing :D What exactly are you going to do about it? :D "Or else we're gonna... um... not... ___... um... yeah!" I love to dissapoint you... Canadians don't think in terms of "or else"... Due to the relatively small amounts involved... It's a matter of honesty and good name. The US's honesty and the US's good name.

In fairness, the United States' benefits from our trade with Canada and anything that hurts our trade relations adversely affects us. But it's not even close the other way around. You guys (Canadians) are totally dependent on us economically. That's your quagmire; any sanctions you place on us would be cutting off your nose to spite your face. you can't hurt us economically without hurting yourselves three times over. I mean, hey, I'm sorry that's the case, but that's how it is.Would that be why Canada has had several large surplusses and will continue to... during the same period in which the states have had several record smashing deficits? Trade is carried out between the US and Canada because it is good business. There is no unilateral dependance on trade.

Would that be why Canada has had several large surplusses and will continue to... during the same period in which the states have had several record smashing deficits? Trade is carried out between the US and Canada because it is good business. There is no unilateral dependance on trade.
Actualy there is some dependence on the American side for our power and water. So if we did cut trade several states would be forced into the dark while a proper replacement was found.

Actualy there is some dependence on the American side for our power and water. So if we did cut trade several states would be forced into the dark while a proper replacement was found.Precisely... Like a friendly american NS user once told me. Canada is the US's wet dream of resources.

That was disturbing as it was funny. I don't know how to feel...

Though on a trade level the US is Canada's bitch and should start paying up beofre we start hiking there power and water prices

@Brians Test:

Check this (http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=3203357) out. That should explain the whole situation up to last year from a British (pronounced non-biased) point of view.

"The dispute is rooted in the two countries' different systems for managing forests. In the United States most are privately owned; timber prices are set by private contracts or auctions. In Canada, almost all forests are owned by the provinces, which grant long-term cutting rights and set stumpage rates (cutting fees) according to market conditions. To the American industry lobby, this government-led system with its “administratively set prices” confers subsidies."

Americans have never failed to post enthusiasticaly on other Canadian themed threads.

Fair enough.

I love to dissapoint you... Canadians don't think in terms of "or else"...

Well, typically saying that someone "better pay up" implies that there will be a retaliatory action if they don't. This could be cultural difference.

Due to the relatively small amounts involved... It's a matter of honesty and good name. The US's honesty and the US's good name.

So I'm gathering that what you're saying is that it is your opinion that the U.S. should pay up. Fair enough.

Would that be why Canada has had several large surplusses and will continue to... during the same period in which the states have had several record smashing deficits? Trade is carried out between the US and Canada because it is good business. There is no unilateral dependance on trade.

Yeah, I'm really going to have to disagree with you here, though. I'm not sure if you understand what it means to run surpluses and deficits. In 2004, the U.S. imported $256.1 billion of goods from Canada and exported $315.6 billion of goods to Canada. (All US$, of course)

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2078.html
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2087.html

To start, this means that the United States runs a trade surplus with Canada of approximately $59.5 billion. This means that you're buying $59.5 billion dollars more of our stuff than we're buying from you. Furthermore,

The United States Gross Domestic Product was approximately $11.75 trillion ($11,750 billion) in 2004, compared to Canada's GDP of appoximately $1.023 trillion ($1,023 billion).

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ca.html#Econ
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html

What this means is that if the United States and Canada ceased all trade, the United States would definitely be affected because we would lose 2.6% of our wealth. This is not a small number. It would probably cost about 3 million American jobs and trigger a recession, which is obviously undesireable, but it wouldn't be anything that we wouldn't bounce back from.

Contrarily, Canada would sacrifice a full 25.0% of it's Gross Domestic Product. This change would be catastrophic for Canada. Unemployment would easily seer past the 30th percentile. Banks would collapse; industry would grind to a halt. By the time the domino effect this would have on your country stopped and reversed, the damage it would cause to your economy would literally take centuries to entirely heal.

For these reasons, although the United States benefits from its trade with Canada, I maintain that Canada is completely and unilaterally dependent on the United States economically.

I'll definitely look at all the informational articles. I look forward to learning about what's going on here.

Just for clarification, I'm definitely open to the possibility that the U.S. is being a jerk here. I just don't have enough information to make an informed assessment yet.

I think this should all very much serve to underscore the extreme importance of Canada and Canadians finding other markets and other clients. To Hell with the deadbeat neighbours. We need to trade globally, and quit trying to get a nation of skinflints to honour deals they can't even be bothered knowing about, much less care.

The US have other markets for their products. We, Canada, don't have.

The Bush Admin. has had a mixed record with trade. On the one hand, they have been very active in free trade, and while not as zealous about it as Clinton, they are signing free trade agreements and mostly honoring them. On the other hand, certain manufacturing industries are too dear to let go, in their eyes anyhow. The steel tariffs hurted America more than it helped. So is this lumber finagle. So what if Canada produces cheaper lumber? That means construction costs in the US will drop more, giving us more houses that have a lot of utility. What some guys can't understand is that products aren't as important as what they are used for.

The US have other markets for their products. We, Canada, don't have.
And it's long past due that we got off our asses and established other markets for ourselves. We're the authours of our own misfortune if we persist in letting ourselves get shafted by those brigands.

And it's long past due that we got off our asses and established other markets for ourselves. We're the authours of our own misfortune if we persist in letting ourselves get shafted by those brigands.

So how do we go about that, aside from cutting minimum wages and lowering coporate taxes and regulations to attract businesses? See how there's a bit of a trade-off here?

So how do we go about that, aside from cutting minimum wages and lowering coporate taxes and regulations to attract businesses? See how there's a bit of a trade-off here?
No, by going to other continents and establishing trade ties. Come on, what do we do for the most part? Export raw materials, agriculture, minerals. Why not do that, but for other markets?

No, by going to other continents and establishing trade ties. Come on, what do we do for the most part? Export raw materials, agriculture, minerals. Why not do that, but for other markets?

I'd say because the higher costs associated with transporting materials like that across the globe make trade with other countries unprofitable when we have the United States next door. I think the Canadian economy will naturally shift to other trading partners if we go to trade war with the United States. This is part of the reason why I think the Canadian economy will be less likely to stumble than the American one in a trade war. The cost of trading resources with other countries is only prohibitive currently because it's cheaper to sell to the US. When this changes, we'll start going elsewhere for decent profits. The United States, on the other hand, is rather fond of the oil extracted from the Athabasca (spelling?) Tar Sands. Could you imagine how high the price of gas would jump if that had a tariff slapped on it? The American public would be furious with the United States.

That's the other advantage we have. Our predicament has received media coverage. We know what they've done to make us take these actions, which could give us an advantage. A trade war is a test of endurance. With a populace so aware of our reasons for engaging in a trade war, the Canadian government will hold onto its support longer in the case of a war. I would imagine the sentiment in the US on the other hand would be that softwood lumber isn't that important and that the US should just capitulate to our demands to lower prices in America again. Basically, while it's unclear how hard we'd be hit by a trade war due to the fact that Canada trades with America out of convenience rather than necessity, it is quite clear that the average Canadian would be more prepared to accept the hardships involved with a trade war than the average American. To Canadians this has become an issue of national pride. To the Americans, this is an annoyance and they likely don't care if their government gives in. That's what gives Canada the edge.

Not to get too off-topic (and I gotta split in a moment anyway), but you do know that we really shouldn't be extracting from the Tar Sands, right? Because the more oil is extracted, the lower the water table drops. Desertification. Alberta is classified as 'semi-arable savannah' - the agriculture there has always been far more tenuous than we ever let on, even to ourselves. You lower the water table, plants can't draw deep enough to get nourishment. Bye-bye agriculture.

Anyway, I digressed. Sorry. And G'night.

Not to get too off-topic (and I gotta split in a moment anyway), but you do know that we really shouldn't be extracting from the Tar Sands, right? Because the more oil is extracted, the lower the water table drops. Desertification. Alberta is classified as 'semi-arable savannah' - the agriculture there has always been far more tenuous than we ever let on, even to ourselves. You lower the water table, plants can't draw deep enough to get nourishment. Bye-bye agriculture.

Anyway, I digressed. Sorry. And G'night.

1) I didn't know that.

2) I don't think the Albertans know that.

3) I don't think the Albertans would care even if they did know that.

1) I didn't know that.

2) I don't think the Albertans know that.

3) I don't think the Albertans would care even if they did know that.


The tar sands around Fort MacMurray are just that... TAR SANDS. The oil extracation involves steaming the oil out of the sand, not pumping it from underground reservoirs. It's doubtful it would have any effect on the water table. Northen Alberta is dotted with lakes and is by no means arid and I haven't yet heard reports of Lac La Biche drying up.

For these reasons, although the United States benefits from its trade with Canada, I maintain that Canada is completely and unilaterally dependent on the United States economically.

Oh you make it sound like we have no other trading partners. I think BC does more trade with Japan and Korea and or China than the US come to think of it. Anyhoo, if it would take us "centuries" to recover from a milder economic hit than the depression how is it Canada grew a 1 trillion dollar economy since the depression? The post war boom of the 1950's was roughly 50 years ago and is what defined the modern Canadian economy. No two economies are so similar as those of the US and Canada, but we have the raw materials in abundance.

As far as the Canada US trade deficit goes, it's abit of a misnomer because a great deal of US businesses of manufacturing here with supplies imported from the US then resold to the US as value added goods. Further a heck of a lot of countries run a trade deficit with the US and are not considered client states.

The only dependence we have on the US is what we allowed and in hindsight it has been a mistake but foresight will hopefully convince our governments to broaden our trading horizons.

Depends on what province you're in, New Fuglies. Some do more business with the US than others. Others have diversified their exports. And then there is BC, who is busy selling former public companies to US interests. Corrupt US interests, in some cases. Joy.

While we are diversifying again, we still do 80% of our export trade with the US. Sad but true. Before our free trade agreements we were much more diversified - there was a time when the US bought only 30% of what we exported. But the US is a lot closer than Britain, who was our original major trade partner.

It's easy enough to say "We need to diversify" but it's still up to individual businesses to sell product. And the US has a huge, wealthy populace happy to buy. It makes sense to concentrate your business in the US for most Canadian exporters - they're close, they speak the same language, they've got lots of money to spend. Sales costs go up when you need to internationalize. Sure, once you get to a certain size and want to expand your market, it makes sense to go global, but for small to medium size businesses, concentrating sales on the US is just plain sense. They're just trying to keep the business going -- it's not their problem that Canada as a whole needs to diversify. Unless the gov't does something that makes globalization attractive -- which is why we keep having all those trade missions to the Pacific nations.

I think BC does more trade with Japan and Korea and or China than the US come to think of it.

Yep, with a new container port to be built in Prince Rupert hopefully soon. We can do more trading with asian countries than ever before. Something BC and the rest of Canada can benefit.

Canada > USA and im from neither of those countries.

USA you're so stupid and religous, if you didnt have skilled migrants coming to your country you would be screwed. YEAHHH CANADA!!! YOU SUCK USA!!! SUCK !!!

Canada > USA and im from neither of those countries.

USA you're so stupid and religous, if you didnt have skilled migrants coming to your country you would be screwed. YEAHHH CANADA!!! YOU SUCK USA!!! SUCK !!!

This doesn't help our cause. We're trying to get Americans to be reasonable and agree with us, not get pissed off at us.

And then there is BC, who is busy selling former public companies to US interests. Corrupt US interests, in some cases. Joy.

BC Ferries... privatized
BC Rail... privatized
BC Hydro... hopefully Gordo do not try to privatize that.

This doesn't help our cause. We're trying to get Americans to be reasonable and agree with us, not get pissed off at us.

Im pretty sure Iraq tried that too :D You cant reason with people who dont have enough mental capacity to engage in reasoning.

BC Ferries... privatized
BC Rail... privatized
BC Hydro... hopefully Gordo do not try to privatize that.

They sold off BC Ferrries???

*has been away from BC too long...*:(

BC Ferries... privatized
BC Rail... privatized
BC Hydro... hopefully Gordo do not try to privatize that.

BC Hydro is slowly being privatized. For example, BC Gas was split from BC Hydro. Then it got itself renamed as Terasen and privatized. And then, Terasen got sold to a bunch of Texans. Another US company, called Accenture, picked up all the HR, IT, and customer management side of BC Hydro, including a number of former Hydro employees. They'e nickel and diming BC Hydro to death. I think Gordo wants to privatize and deregulate, cause hey, we've seen how well other places have handled electricity deregulation...

BC Tel was privatized back in the SoCred days.

Another one I'm scared about is ICBC. BC has some of the lowest insurance rates in the country because we have public car insurance. But now they're allowing private insurers to cherry pick all the best drivers (because they can offer lower rates if they only accept the good ones) which drives up the rates for ICBC because their are less insurees to spread the cost around. Hey, it pays to buy in bulk.

Gordo tried to privatize the Coquilhala too, until public outrage was too great. How come we get all worked up over a toll highway, but not the public companies. Augh!

Canada > USA and im from neither of those countries.

USA you're so stupid and religous, if you didnt have skilled migrants coming to your country you would be screwed. YEAHHH CANADA!!! YOU SUCK USA!!! SUCK !!!

Actually Canada relies on skilled immigrants too. Otherwise our population would both age dramatically and decrease. So if you want to praise Canada and denigrate the States, you'd better find a better reason.

They sold off BC Ferrries???

*has been away from BC too long...*:(

Yes, welcome to the new BC Ferries, where prices have gone up, you can pay extra to watch big screen sports and spend money in new and improved shops, and pay to listen to guest speakers - but should bring your own life jacket because maintenance has gone to the dogs.

Did you see the news reports a while ago, where a ferry plowed through a marina because it couldn't stop?

So much for having a "fake" Liberal in power. :mad:

Did you see the news reports a while ago, where a ferry plowed through a marina because it couldn't stop?

All because of that 3cm cotter pin. That is pretty stupid!

Don't get me started. I'm one of those people who emails MLAs and prospective MLAs about privatization. I think Sheila Orr might be glad she lost her seat -- I think she was getting tired of leaving messages on my answering machine. "No, we have no plans to privitize BC Hydro. Please vote for me."

Yeah, right. I'll take Paul Nettleton's word over her's any day. Too bad he lost his seat - I'd have voted for him if he ran independent in my riding. At least he took a stand. Instead I voted for "Commie Rob" Fleming.

Glad we got rid of Belsey

Edit: BTW, I heard the teachers union are having a strike vote somewhere in mid-september. I think they're the most pissed off union in BC.

Canada > USA and im from neither of those countries.

USA you're so stupid and religous, if you didnt have skilled migrants coming to your country you would be screwed. YEAHHH CANADA!!! YOU SUCK USA!!! SUCK !!!
lmao

I'll further a comment I made earlier. No nation on the face of the Earth is unilaterally dependant on any other nation. Trade is conducted out of convencience and not out of necessity.

I'll further a comment I made earlier. No nation on the face of the Earth is unilaterally dependant on any other nation. Trade is conducted out of convencience and not out of necessity.

Tell that to all the people who lost their jobs and the towns that have all but shut down in BC due to the softwood lumber dispute.

Trade is much more than a convienience.

Tell that to all the people who lost their jobs and the towns that have all but shut down in BC due to the softwood lumber dispute.

Trade is much more than a convienience.
I'm not saying it doesn't affect people's lives. I'm just saying that no nation depends as a whole on trade with another nation.

I'm just saying that no nation depends as a whole on trade with another nation.
The Americans pigs in on our water, oil, gas, and hydro. I say let's snip it. :D

The Americans pigs in on our water, oil, gas, and hydro. I say let's snip it. :D

Snip it good?[/Devo reference]

http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=c5c3feeb-353c-4bb5-b84c-2de8c6906856

Trade Minister Jim Peterson said the ambassador should tell Washington "that they should not confuse emotion with commitment and determination by Canadians to ensure the NAFTA is respected."
Pissed-off Federal Liberal Cabinet Ministers > Idiot US Ambassador David Wilkins

Wilkins is just another Paul Cellucci.

Geez Americans, respect NAFTA or face the trade war.