NationStates Jolt Archive

Hello. I am a born-again Christian and a rational thinker (for all of you out there who do not believe that those two can coexist). This is intended as a thread where you can post the questions you've always had but never found anyone to ask and/or never got a straight answer to. I will do my best to answer them thoroughly and completely. All I ask is that you be open-minded and willing to listen to whatever it is I respond with. (In other words, rational, reasonable questions and rebuttals, and no ad hominine arguments).

Ask away!

Do you believe that people are sent to Hell through an action of God for a reason, or through something else? Err, that was probably not worded too clearly, so I'll put up a different version of the same question again in hopes that you understand me: Does God send people to Hell as punishment, or is Hell something different?

I have always wondered about the likelihood that Jesus had offspring.. There was a show on the discovery channel a while back where they examined the possibility of Jesus having descendents..

Do you believe that the Christian god is benevolent, or vengeful?

What denomination are you?

Is Jesus a zombie? He rose from the dead and all..

OMG it's a "Ask A..." thread in disguise :eek:

OMG it's a "Ask A..." thread in disguise :eek:

Yet I see nothing being answered... :(

Can I borrow a fiver until monday? I had to spend my last pocketful on an emergency food shop, see, and...

Are we inherently evil from birth just because our alleged ancestors, thousands of years removed, ate the wrong apple? With that comes the question: if Adam and Eve were sorry, why weren't they forgiven?

Why does a loving and forgiving God send sinners to eternal hell for the sins they commit over, say, 80 years?

Where do the souls of the righteous who died before the coming of Christ, as well as those of babies who die before baptism, go?

If God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-wise, why does He do things that He later regrets (such as the Flood, etc.)

In the little I read of Genesis, God clearly appeared before people and conversed with them. Why does that no longer happen?

Why was there no attempt to redeem the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah, instead of simply biblical-nuking it?

Why is God in the Old Testament generally vengeful/just, and God in the New Testament is loving and forgiving. Let me rephrase that: somewhere in the Bible it says "God Is Love." Therefore, why does Love force the ultimate punishment on people that can be redeemed? If someone dies, and sees the glory and light of God, as well as the error of their ways, wouldn't they repent, making them eligible for entry into Heaven?

I'm sure everyone can come up with a "few" more...

Do you believe that people are sent to Hell through an action of God for a reason, or through something else? Err, that was probably not worded too clearly, so I'll put up a different version of the same question again in hopes that you understand me: Does God send people to Hell as punishment, or is Hell something different?

seconded.

Also, if hell is punishment, does God send the atheists there simply because they didn't know any better?

Does it require faith or deeds to get into Heaven?

Is God omnipotent?
-If so, why can't he affect people in chariots of iron?

Did God design man in his own image? If so, why did God design man with an ability to fart? If so, what is the correct way to respond, if and when I get to heaven, if God farts? Would I be able to move away discreetly or will He already know that I am trying to move away from His divine flatulence and smite me for it?

Do you believe that people are sent to Hell through an action of God for a reason, or through something else? Err, that was probably not worded too clearly, so I'll put up a different version of the same question again in hopes that you understand me: Does God send people to Hell as punishment, or is Hell something different? Hell is just the way the rules go. It is not for punishment. You sin you go to hell. Romans 6:23 (New International Version)
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[a] Christ Jesus our Lord.

Does it require faith or deeds to get into Heaven?
Jesus is the only way to get into heaven. You must accept that you have sinned believe that he can save you and commit to living your life for him "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh to the Father but by me." John 14:6.



Also, if hell is punishment, does God send the atheists there simply because they didn't know any better?
The fact is that many athiest do know better,but are unwilling to accept the Truth.





Are we inherently evil from birth just because our alleged ancestors, thousands of years removed, ate the wrong apple? With that comes the question: if Adam and Eve were sorry, why weren't they forgiven? We don't know that they weren't. In the old covenant you had to come up with a substitue to die for your sins(we know that thier children did this that is what started the trouble with Cain and Able) under the new covenant Christ died for your sins.

Why does a loving and forgiving God send sinners to eternal hell for the sins they commit over, say, 80 years?You are sent to hell for unrepented sins. God does not send you there you send yourself (see above) 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."[h]

Where do the souls of the righteous who died before the coming of Christ, as well as those of babies who die before baptism, go?
that is heavily contested. In my denomination though baptism alone does not save you and people who are unable to understand (babies ect.) are automatically sent to heaven. People are in heaven now.
If God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-wise, why does He do things that He later regrets (such as the Flood, etc.)I am unsure how you know that God has regreted anything he has done. I don't believe he does

In the little I read of Genesis, God clearly appeared before people and conversed with them. Why does that no longer happen?We are separated from God by sin.

Why was there no attempt to redeem the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah, instead of simply biblical-nuking it?There were many attemps.

Why is God in the Old Testament generally vengeful/just, and God in the New Testament is loving and forgiving. Let me rephrase that: somewhere in the Bible it says "God Is Love." Therefore, why does Love force the ultimate punishment on people that can be redeemed? If someone dies, and sees the glory and light of God, as well as the error of their ways, wouldn't they repent, making them eligible for entry into Heaven?You must make a choice in life to follow God, after you die it is too late. God in the new testament is the same as the one in the old.

Yet I see nothing being answered... :(

Sorry about that - I was posting somewhere else. I'll get down to answering each question specifically.

Do you believe that people are sent to Hell through an action of God for a reason, or through something else? Err, that was probably not worded too clearly, so I'll put up a different version of the same question again in hopes that you understand me: Does God send people to Hell as punishment, or is Hell something different?

seconded.

Also, if hell is punishment, does God send the atheists there simply because they didn't know any better?

I'll answer these two together.
1) Hell is a punishment of a sort, but not for what most people would believe it to be. Hell is a literal place, yes, and those who do not accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior are sent there. See, humankind was created with a perfect relationship with God. However, humans rejected God by their willful act of disobedience. Since God is holy, He cannot allow sin into his presence, therefore the condemnation is for sinners to join the devil and his angels (those who were rebellious) in a place called hell.
2) However, while God is holy, he is also merciful. He provided a way of escape for all who will accept it. God sent His Son to take on human flesh (becoming the literal God-man) and, as a man who never sinned, died in our place, so that we could be free from the punishment of our sin.
3) My personal belief (Biblically based, though some well-meaning people would disagree with me) is that those who have never heard of the way out are judged by the light that they have. For example, a native of South America, living in the bush, who has never heard the name Jesus Christ, walks out of his doorway one day, looks around, and realizes that the rocks that he's been worshiping aren't cutting it. He then thinks to himself, There must be something more. There must be a benevolent God to design all this. I will worship Him, though I don't know Him. In that case, I believe that person has accepted God's gift, though he does not even know what it is. (By the way, this comes out of Romans; I can get the chapter and verse if anyone's interested).

EDIT: The substitutionary death of Christ on the cross is necessary to enter the kingdom of heaven. How God applies that, and at what point a person accepts Christ, is between every person and the Spirit of God. We can say things about the nature of God that say it is God's purpose that every person should be saved (not to say that every person will be saved, but that God will provide a way for all to be saved). The exact nature of how and when a person is redeemed by that gift is beyond my ability to answer and yours.

I have always wondered about the likelihood that Jesus had offspring.. There was a show on the discovery channel a while back where they examined the possibility of Jesus having descendents..

1) Jesus did not have offspring. There are several texts that are somewhat ancient that describe a relationship with Mary Magdaline; however, all of them have many contradictions with canonical Scripture.
2) This has been a rumor circulating for hundreds of years that has never been proven and is most definitely not supported Scripturally or logically. If Jesus were married, where was his wife at his death? I would think she would be mentioned in the four Gospels. If He had an affair, He would not be sinless and therefore would not be God. He could not even be considered a good teacher, since he teaches that sex outside of the marriage bond is wrong - in fact, even looking at a woman lustfully is wrong.

Do you believe that the Christian god is benevolent, or vengeful?

1) The two are not mutually exclusive. I can be benevolent to a person, yet still vengeful when that person rapes my wife.
2) However, God is a benevolent God. While He is holy, He provides a way out of the judgement that He has decreed, since He died in our place.

What denomination are you?

I technically could be considered Southern Baptist, though I don't always agree with everything they teach. I think the argument over denomination is silly anyway, but that's my personal opinion.

Is Jesus a zombie? He rose from the dead and all..

1) I'm not sure I should dignify this question with a response, but in the event that it is a serious question I will.
2) Jesus is not a zombie. Jesus is the only human to have ever literally conquered death. He is not "undead," rather, He is 100% fully alive. When he arose, he had flesh and bone, he ate, he walked, he talked - he was a full-fledged human.

I know I'm not the guy who started the thread, but I'll try to answer the questions I can.

Are we inherently evil from birth just because our alleged ancestors, thousands of years removed, ate the wrong apple? With that comes the question: if Adam and Eve were sorry, why weren't they forgiven?
It's not about an apple, but what it represents, which is all-encompassing knowledge (if I remember correctly). God explicitly told Adam and Eve not to eat the fruits of the Tree of Life, in the middle of Eden, or they would become subject to death. The snake tempted Eve to eat the fruit because it alleged that it'd make her and her husband gods, more powerful than God Himself. This way, Adam & Eve sinned and betrayed God's trust (this is more important than actually eating the fruit), and were expelled from Eden.

They were forgiven, but they lost the "state of grace" they had from birth and became mortal. From then on, women would have to suffer when giving birth, and men would have to work every day to earn food.

Why does a loving and forgiving God send sinners to eternal hell for the sins they commit over, say, 80 years?
Forgiveness alone doesn't vindicate evil actions. You must carry out good ones and work hard to redeem yourself. For example, St. Paul was an oppressing tax collector before he redeemed himself, and ended up being a saint.

Does it require faith or deeds to get into Heaven?
Both. However, I personally believe it's slightly more inclined towards the deeds rather than faith.

Do you believe that people are sent to Hell through an action of God for a reason, or through something else? Err, that was probably not worded too clearly, so I'll put up a different version of the same question again in hopes that you understand me: Does God send people to Hell as punishment, or is Hell something different?
God sends people to Hell because of their actions, not because He just feels like doing that.

Do you believe that the Christian god is benevolent, or vengeful?
He's benevolent, even though he's sometimes portrayed as seemingly violent in the Old Testament.


EDIT: Ouch, lotsa posts popped up in the time it took me to write mine. :p

On many of your points I agree with you, but you on a couple I think you may be slightly wrong...



Forgiveness alone doesn't vindicate evil actions. You must carry out good ones and work hard to redeem yourself. For example, St. Paul was an oppressing tax collector before he redeemed himself, and ended up being a saint.

Forgiveness is complete. There is no action that you has a human can take that will redeem you before God. That is why Christ died, he payed the price and redeemed us before God because we as humans were and are unable to redeem ourselves. For example, the criminal on one of the crosses beside Jesus begged for forgiveness right there, on the cross, and, although the criminal could not "work to redeem himself", as he was dying, Jesus responded by saying "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." Luke 23:43



Quote:
Originally Posted by CthulhuFhtagn
Does it require faith or deeds to get into Heaven?

Both. However, I personally believe it's slightly more inclined towards the deeds rather than faith.

Sorry but deeds have absolutly nothing to do with being saved- Ephesians 2:8-9 " For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-- and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- not by works, so that no one can boast."

Are we inherently evil from birth just because our alleged ancestors, thousands of years removed, ate the wrong apple? With that comes the question: if Adam and Eve were sorry, why weren't they forgiven?

1) We are inherently evil from birth. The Bible describes what it calls the sin nature. This is the depravity of man. Sin is passed down through the seed of man to each individual.
2) The evil does not come from our ancestors eating the wrong apple. The sin nature comes from rebellion and disobedience to God. See, God didn't want little robots to do whatever He said. He gave humans free will by giving them the choice to obey him and not eat of the tree or to disobey and eat of that tree. I don't believe, even, that there was anything particularly special about the tree. I think that God simply picked it to give man a choice.
3) God is a holy God, as I said before, therefore he cannot allow sin into his presence. Since the wages of sin is death, blood must be shed to cover sin. Adam and Eve were forgiven by the sacrifice of animals. Now, our sins are washed away by the blood of Jesus.

Why does a loving and forgiving God send sinners to eternal hell for the sins they commit over, say, 80 years?

1) This may sound strange to you, but God doesn't send anyone to hell. People choose to go there. God provided a way for people to have their sins washed away - it is their choice to accept it or not.
2) To answer the question, though, people go to hell because God is holy and by definition cannot allow sin into his presence. He cannot tolerate it. In His mercy, though, God allowed us to come back to Him and have our sins forgiven if we so choose.

Where do the souls of the righteous who died before the coming of Christ, as well as those of babies who die before baptism, go?

1) There is a place described in the Bible as Abraham's Bosum. What that place is exactly I do not know; what I do know is that it is a kind of holding place. This is where the righteous who died before Christ went. I believe that at the point of his death, though, those in that holding place were removed and taken to what the Bible calls heaven.
2) I have to take issue with the baby baptism. I don't want to step on toes here, but there is no Biblical backing for the doctrine. Baptism is meant as a public display of faith. It has no bearing on salvation or redemption.
3) However, I do believe there is an age of accountability. I believe that those who die before they are capable of understanding God's way of redemption are not held accountable for not accepting it.

If God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-wise, why does He do things that He later regrets (such as the Flood, etc.)

1) I'm going to admit right now that this is a very difficult question to answer. The response is nuanced, and requires a good deal of explanation. If I am not clear enough, please let me know.
2) I believe that God can change His mind. How do I reconcile that with the fact of an all-knowing God? First, I believe that God is outside of time. He created time, so by definition He is not bound by it. I believe that God, while one God, has many natures. In relation to time, I believe that He has a nature that is in the past, a nature in the present, and a nature in the future (to keep it simple). The nature of God that is in the past can, if He so chooses, limit His own knowledge, while the nature in the future knows the choices that will be made, etc.
3) God does not do things that He regrets, per se. Rather, there are times where the Bible says He "repents," or changes His mind. Always that is before the action is done.
4) In reference to the Flood, God did not regret it; rather, He said that He would not do it again.

In the little I read of Genesis, God clearly appeared before people and conversed with them. Why does that no longer happen?

1) Who's to say it doesn't? However, most people that have "spoken to God" either keep it to themselves or are considered crazy.
2) DISCLAIMER: Most of the people who claim to have "spoken with God" have contridicted Scripture, proving that they have not.
3) The final argument is that we as humans have all of the revelation of God that we need in the incarnation of Jesus Christ.

Why was there no attempt to redeem the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah, instead of simply biblical-nuking it?

1) There are several attempts to redeem the city. First, Lot travells there, but he is corrupted as well. Second, Abraham fights a battle for them and shows the power of God. Thirdly, Abraham begs that if just ten righteous were found in the city, that it would be spared.
2) It is possible that God did not limit his knowledge and that He knew that the people would not turn.

Why is God in the Old Testament generally vengeful/just, and God in the New Testament is loving and forgiving. Let me rephrase that: somewhere in the Bible it says "God Is Love." Therefore, why does Love force the ultimate punishment on people that can be redeemed? If someone dies, and sees the glory and light of God, as well as the error of their ways, wouldn't they repent, making them eligible for entry into Heaven?

1) This is mostly answered already, but I'll go over the highlights.
2) God is holy, meaning He cannot allow sin into his presence.
3) Man is sinful, totally corrupted.
4) God provided a way out in the form of His Son, Jesus, who died to wash away our sins.
5) We must accept the gift that God has offered to be saved.
6) The Bible states that it is appointed unto man once to die, and after that the judgment. God gives plenty of opportunites for people to be redeemed while they are on this earth. Does He allow them a chance immediately after they die? I don't know. I'm not willing to stake my eternal soul on it.

Does it require faith or deeds to get into Heaven?

Is God omnipotent?
-If so, why can't he affect people in chariots of iron?

1) Deeds have nothing whatsoever to do with it. Faith alone is what saves a person, otherwise the gift of salvation would not be free. Reference Layish's answers.
2) The second question is kind of silly, I think. Where does it say He can't affect people in chariots of iron? No offense, I've just never heard that before.

Did God design man in his own image? If so, why did God design man with an ability to fart? If so, what is the correct way to respond, if and when I get to heaven, if God farts? Would I be able to move away discreetly or will He already know that I am trying to move away from His divine flatulence and smite me for it?

1) God did design man in His own image. However, that does not necessarily mean that all of our body systems, which are designed for us to survive on our planet, are the same as God's.
2) I don't think God farts, but if He did, it would probably smell good, not bad.

Do you believe that people are sent to Hell through an action of God for a reason, or through something else? Err, that was probably not worded too clearly, so I'll put up a different version of the same question again in hopes that you understand me: Does God send people to Hell as punishment, or is Hell something different? Hell is just the way the rules go. It is not for punishment. You sin you go to hell. Romans 6:23 (New International Version)
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[a] Christ Jesus our Lord.

Does it require faith or deeds to get into Heaven?
Jesus is the only way to get into heaven. You must accept that you have sinned believe that he can save you and commit to living your life for him "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh to the Father but by me." John 14:6.



Also, if hell is punishment, does God send the atheists there simply because they didn't know any better?
The fact is that many athiest do know better,but are unwilling to accept the Truth.





Are we inherently evil from birth just because our alleged ancestors, thousands of years removed, ate the wrong apple? With that comes the question: if Adam and Eve were sorry, why weren't they forgiven? We don't know that they weren't. In the old covenant you had to come up with a substitue to die for your sins(we know that thier children did this that is what started the trouble with Cain and Able) under the new covenant Christ died for your sins.

Why does a loving and forgiving God send sinners to eternal hell for the sins they commit over, say, 80 years?You are sent to hell for unrepented sins. God does not send you there you send yourself (see above) 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."[h]

Where do the souls of the righteous who died before the coming of Christ, as well as those of babies who die before baptism, go?
that is heavily contested. In my denomination though baptism alone does not save you and people who are unable to understand (babies ect.) are automatically sent to heaven. People are in heaven now.
If God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-wise, why does He do things that He later regrets (such as the Flood, etc.)I am unsure how you know that God has regreted anything he has done. I don't believe he does

In the little I read of Genesis, God clearly appeared before people and conversed with them. Why does that no longer happen?We are separated from God by sin.

Why was there no attempt to redeem the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah, instead of simply biblical-nuking it?There were many attemps.

Why is God in the Old Testament generally vengeful/just, and God in the New Testament is loving and forgiving. Let me rephrase that: somewhere in the Bible it says "God Is Love." Therefore, why does Love force the ultimate punishment on people that can be redeemed? If someone dies, and sees the glory and light of God, as well as the error of their ways, wouldn't they repent, making them eligible for entry into Heaven?You must make a choice in life to follow God, after you die it is too late. God in the new testament is the same as the one in the old.

I agree with pretty much all of that. Props to you, Smunkeeville.

I have always wondered about the likelihood that Jesus had offspring.. There was a show on the discovery channel a while back where they examined the possibility of Jesus having descendents..

You should read The DaVinci Code. It talks about how Jesus was married, had a child/children, and has descendents. And no, the entire book isn't about Jesus. The main idea of the book is that Christianity is based on lies and fabrications. Not to insult anyone. Just saying what the book is about.

Why is Jesus being compared to the brass serpent that Moses made in the wilderness, in John 3:14? Doesn't the fact that this serpent was later destroyed when people started mistakenly worshipping it tell us that Jesus was not supposed to be worshipped (especially considering that he was destroyed for the same reason)?

1. How did God come into existence?

2. Why would a perfect being (God) create imperfect beings (humans) or anything in general?

3. If God is all knowing, all powerful; in other words perfect, then how could he create imperfect beings (humans)?

4. Why does God want love from these imperfect beings? Why force these imperfect beings to love him?

5. How could God be perfect yet vengeful?

6. Why would God make requirements upon his imperfect creations who did not ask to be created (requirements that he knows many will not full-fill)?

7. Why was I not consulted on being here?

8. Could God kill himself or itself (that is make itself cease to exist)?

I agree with pretty much all of that. Props to you, Smunkeeville.
thanks :)

I would assume (although I know that is dangerous) that you agree with most because we are the same denomination. I would also like to know what you don't agree with (maybe I didn't state it clearly) I would feel very bad if because of my inept communication skills I led someone in the wrong direction.

You should read The DaVinci Code. It talks about how Jesus was married, had a child/children, and has descendents. And no, the entire book isn't about Jesus. The main idea of the book is that Christianity is based on lies and fabrications. Not to insult anyone. Just saying what the book is about.
The DaVinci Code is a fictional book (the author admits this) most of the secret societies and documents he mentioned have been proven either not to exist or to be hoaxes.

Why is Jesus being compared to the brass serpent that Moses made in the wilderness, in John 3:14? Doesn't the fact that this serpent was later destroyed when people started mistakenly worshipping it tell us that Jesus was not supposed to be worshipped (especially considering that he was destroyed for the same reason)?

1) The Bronze Serpant was supposed to be a representation of Jesus. Moses lifted up the serpent on a pole the same way that Jesus was lifted up. All the people had to do was look at the serpant to be healed, just as all people have to trust in Jesus to be saved.
2) The second does not necessarily follow from the first. Satan has throughout time taken objects that were meant to be symbols and turned them into gods. Jesus, on the other hand, is God Himself, incarnate, who paid the price for our sins. The serpant was not God; therefore, when people worshipped it, they had created an idol, something that came before God. Since Jesus was and is God, such is not possible with him.

Amestria']1. How did God come into existence?

2. Why would a perfect being (God) create imperfect beings (humans) or anything in general?

3. If God is all knowing, all powerful; in other words perfect, then how could he create imperfect beings (humans)?

4. Why does God want love from these imperfect beings? Why force these imperfect beings to love him?

5. How could God be perfect yet vengeful?

6. Why would God make requirements upon his imperfect creations who did not ask to be created (requirements that he knows many will not full-fill)?

7. Why was I not consulted on being here?

8. Could God kill himself or itself (that is make itself cease to exist)?

1. According to the Bible, he has always been here... outside of time, there's no 'beginning' and no 'end.

2. Say you had God's powers. Would you want robots and nothing more? Things that could ONLY do what you told them?

3. All knowing or all powerful doesn't mean he has to exercise these powers on us... free will means we can be imperfect, if we chose to.

4. He doesn't force... he gives you the choice.

5. Does being vengeful make you imperfect? No... cruelty can be refining. It can bring out things you'd never had. If you did things wrong and didn't get punished/caught/fear being caught/ect. would you stop voluntarily because you profit?

6. God does not chose for us... you chose. Therefore, he knows you CAN chose not to, but also knows you can chose to do as he asks.

7. Were you consulted on what school you went to as a child? What you ate? Your bedtime?

If you're not able to make informed decisions, you don' tget consulted.

8. Probably.

You should read The DaVinci Code. It talks about how Jesus was married, had a child/children, and has descendents. And no, the entire book isn't about Jesus. The main idea of the book is that Christianity is based on lies and fabrications. Not to insult anyone. Just saying what the book is about.

I don't mean to insult anyones intelligence. As almost all of you probably allready know, The DaVinci Code is a work of fiction. It's author claims it to be a work of fiction. I'm just saying not to take it any more literally then you might take other works of fiction, such as Harry Potter. Sadly a great deal of people take it seriously.

Why is Jesus being compared to the brass serpent that Moses made in the wilderness, in John 3:14? Doesn't the fact that this serpent was later destroyed when people started mistakenly worshipping it tell us that Jesus was not supposed to be worshipped (especially considering that he was destroyed for the same reason)?

Jesus was compared to the serpent for a couple of reasons. Before we get into that, however, here is some important backround: the serpent was made because the Isrealites had sinned and were suffering from a plague of poisonous snakes. If someone was bitten by one of these snakes, they would die. Moses cried out to God for help, and God told Moses to make a bronze snake and lift it up on a pole where everyone could see it. Anyone who had been bitten by a snake only had to look at the bronze snake, and they would live.
In the same way, Jesus was sent to earth because man had sinned and were suffering from separation from God. Because of sin, man could not be with God. Jesus was lifted up on the cross and died, but later rose again. If anyone believes in Christ, they will be saved from death/sin. Just as the Isrealites only had to LOOK at the serpent, so we only have to believe in Christ to be saved. We do not have to earn Christ's salvation, only believe. The Isrealites did not have to earn the healing God gave them, they only had to gather enough faith look at the snake, and they were healed.
The fact that the snake was later destroyed is not at all related to the analogy. In fact, the Isrealites had begun to worship the bronze snake itself, instead of the God that had healed them "through" the bronze snake. The snake became and idol, and therefore had to be destroyed. Jesus, on the other hand, is God himself, and therefore deserves to be worshipped.

1. How did God come into existence? God is infinite, he has no begining or end.

2. Why would a perfect being (God) create imperfect beings (humans) or anything in general?
He created us in his image to worship him. We were created with free will, we choose to be imperfect.
3. If God is all knowing, all powerful; in other words perfect, then how could he create imperfect beings (humans)? God can do anything God wants to do.

4. Why does God want love from these imperfect beings? Why force these imperfect beings to love him?
It is fully natural to want someone to love you. He doesn't force us, we have free will
5. How could God be perfect yet vengeful? God is a jealous God, he requires that you worship him alone. It is not our job to judge God for we are only responsible for our own actions

6. Why would God make requirements upon his imperfect creations who did not ask to be created (requirements that he knows many will not full-fill)?Adam and Eve ruined it for us all. lol. He only requires that you devote your life to him. btw nobody is sinless (well except for The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost) we are not required to be sinless we are only required to follow him, and that is something anyone can do.

7. Why was I not consulted on being here?here on earth? maybe you should pray about it

8. Could God kill himself or itself (that is make itself cease to exist)? to understand God completely with our human intellegence is impossible. just as it is inpossible to answer this question.

1) This may sound strange to you, but God doesn't send anyone to hell. People choose to go there. God provided a way for people to have their sins washed away - it is their choice to accept it or not.
2) To answer the question, though, people go to hell because God is holy and by definition cannot allow sin into his presence. He cannot tolerate it. In His mercy, though, God allowed us to come back to Him and have our sins forgiven if we so choose.

A clarification of what Hell actually is might be useful. Everyone knows the typical stereotype of what people think hell is like, but honestly most of it is not biblical so here I hope to help give a better description of hell, from a simple biblical viewpoint.

Heaven will be eternity in God's presence. Revelation 21 says "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God." So Hell, being heaven's opposite, will be eternity without God's presence. The presence of God is a huge issue for mankind, for we can do nothing without God (John 15:5). An eternity without God, is the worst thing that could ever possibly happen to any person. God is light, love, etc. He is everything that is good, so without Him there would be nothing but darkness, hate, etc. There are other scriptures that refer to hell, but just for this discussion I think this is the relevant point.

When people choose to reject God's Law, which we all have, we choose to live in our own kingdom rather than God's. God has given mankind more chances to redeem themselves through His grace than He ever needed or had to. He chose to give us a chance to choose Him rather than death, because He loves us.

One other thing that could be said about hell. A lot of people seem to think that it is "better to reign in hell than serve in heaven", which honestly doesn't make a whole lot of sense. There isn't anything in scripture that says anything about anyone being able to do anything in hell other than just exist in their own misery, including Lucifer. I don't claim to have any extensive knowledge about either heaven or hell, but things like that just don't make sense. Heaven is going to be wonderful well beyond human comprehension, and hell much worse than we could ever understand.

I know this isn't my thred but...
Your answers are far too simplistic.

Amestria']1. How did God come into existence?

God is eternal. This means that He is, was, and will be. There is no beginning or ending with God. I will admit, this is probably the one thing that has to be taken completely on faith, since no one else is eternal. I believe that it is something that we simply cannot wrap our finite minds around. But think about it. By definition, wouldn't God have to always have existed?

Amestria']2. Why would a perfect being (God) create imperfect beings (humans) or anything in general?

I answered this somewhat before, but I'll reiterate - God created people perfect, but, since He didn't want little robots running around, He gave them free will. When they sinned, they became imperfect. Even the devil was originally the second-in-command before he chose to sin.

Amestria']3. If God is all knowing, all powerful; in other words perfect, then how could he create imperfect beings (humans)?

I answered this before, but I'll reiterate:
1) I'm going to admit right now that this is a very difficult question to answer. The response is nuanced, and requires a good deal of explanation. If I am not clear enough, please let me know.
2) I believe that God can change His mind. How do I reconcile that with the fact of an all-knowing God? First, I believe that God is outside of time. He created time, so by definition He is not bound by it. I believe that God, while one God, has many natures. In relation to time, I believe that He has a nature that is in the past, a nature in the present, and a nature in the future (to keep it simple). The nature of God that is in the past can, if He so chooses, limit His own knowledge, while the nature in the future knows the choices that will be made, etc.

Amestria']4. Why does God want love from these imperfect beings? Why force these imperfect beings to love him?

1) Again difficult question to answer. You're really laying it on. Good for you.
2) All God wishes is to reestablish the relationship that He once had with humans. I wish I could explain all this in detail, but it is impossible to do in the short post space I have. The best I can do is refer you to two books - one by C.S. Lewis entitled Mere Christianity, and the other by Ted Dekker entitled Black.

Amestria']5. How could God be perfect yet vengeful?

I think I answered this one before as well. Because my fingers are starting to hurt from typing so much, I'm going to turn this one over to Smunkeeville to answer.

Amestria']6. Why would God make requirements upon his imperfect creations who did not ask to be created (requirements that he knows many will not full-fill)?

1) Again, God created humanity perfect.
2) God only has one requirement, that we accept his free gift of eternal life offered through His Son Jesus Christ.
3) As to why God has that requirement, it is because He is holy yet merciful. He is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance; however, His mercy does not override His holiness. Humans who choose to be imperfect (which is all of us) must choose to accept the way to become righteous.

Amestria']7. Why was I not consulted on being here?

1) God probably lost your address (j/k)
2) He consulted your mother and father, and they said it was OK (again, just kidding)
3) In all seriousness, I don't know. The Bible doesn't give an answer, and I'm not going to claim to speak for God in an area in which He was silent.

Amestria']8. Could God kill himself or itself (that is make itself cease to exist)?

1) No. Why would he want to?

Your answers are far too simplistic.
Christianity is simple.

thanks :)

I would assume (although I know that is dangerous) that you agree with most because we are the same denomination. I would also like to know what you don't agree with (maybe I didn't state it clearly) I would feel very bad if because of my inept communication skills I led someone in the wrong direction.

The only thing I might disagree with you on is the last point you made. However, that may simply be the lack of information given.

Your answers are far too simplistic.sometimes the simple answers are the best.

Do you have some questions or concerns?

Smunkeeville, can I make a suggestion, if you're going to answer in a different font, can you use RED or perhaps BLUE and use the underline because the green is kinda hard for my poor eyes to differenciate with the black.

What is the meaning of ps 37:29 "The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it"?

Just one question that i have dealing with revalations: If God is to descend into New Jeruselem with us Humans after the final judgement, then what is to be in the New Heaven?

Does the Christian religion denounce and despise other, non-Christian religions, and think of them as unrepenting sinners? ...Do they believe they are heathens, as the stereotype goes? What do they think of Neo-Pagans?


If I don't come back to this thread, telegram me with the answers. I wanna know, but I have to jet in the next fifteen minutes. Heh.

Quote:Originally Posted by [NS]Amestria
3. If God is all knowing, all powerful; in other words perfect, then how could he create imperfect beings (humans)?

All God wishes is to reestablish the relationship that He once had with humans. I wish I could explain all this in detail, but it is impossible to do in the short post space I have. The best I can do is refer you to two books - one by C.S. Lewis entitled Mere Christianity, and the other by Ted Dekker entitled Black.

God is love, is community (the trinity), and does not need us in any way. For one, God is all-powerful, all-knowing, etc. and is the only source of reason, understanding, etc. and if God chooses to create beings in order to love them and share love with them, then it is for a good reason, whether we can see that reason or not. That point made, honestly it could be as simple as this, "the more the merrier".

And one more thing, God did not ever "force" us to love him. He gave us the choice of loving or rejecting Him. You have the choice to love or reject Him, If you choose to love God and be a member of His people by putting faith in His son Jesus for redemption, then you shall be with Him, for all eternity. But if you choose to reject God, which you have all rights and chances to do, you choose to live apart from God, which is what we call Hell. God is life, if you live apart from God, then you live in death. God doesn't choose this for us, He lets us choose this. It just happens to be a choice that has terrible consequences. Which is why He sent Jesus to redeem His people.

What is the meaning of ps 37:29 "The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it"?

Just a question, what version is that quote out of? 'Cause the KJV says something that sounds similar but has a completely different meaning.

Just one question that i have dealing with revalations: If God is to descend into New Jeruselem with us Humans after the final judgement, then what is to be in the New Heaven?

Very good question. I'm going to have to either pass this one off to someone else or get back to you after I discuss it with some people who are more knowledgeable about it than I am.

Personally, though, my gut reaction is that they are two seperate places with seperate functions. What those functions are, I don't know.

Does the Christian religion denounce and despise other, non-Christian religions, and think of them as unrepenting sinners? ...Do they believe they are heathens, as the stereotype goes? What do they think of Neo-Pagans?

1) I have to take issue with the stereotyping of Christianity as a "religion." Christianity is a faith, not a set of rules and regulations. Someone else can expound upon this if they wish, or I can in a different post.
2) Here's the simple truth. Anyone who rejects Jesus Christ's substitutionary death on the cross is going to hell. I don't care if they are Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, Baptist, Methodist, Pentacostal, Catholic, atheist, pagan, New Age, etc., if they do not believe that Jesus died for their sins, was buried, and rose again three days later, and that he is the only way to heaven, is lost in their sins.

Marcion


Why is God in the Old Testament generally vengeful/just, and God in the New Testament is loving and forgiving. Let me rephrase that: somewhere in the Bible it says "God Is Love." Therefore, why does Love force the ultimate punishment on people that can be redeemed? If someone dies, and sees the glory and light of God, as well as the error of their ways, wouldn't they repent, making them eligible for entry into Heaven?You must make a choice in life to follow God, after you die it is too late. God in the new testament is the same as the one in the old.

I came up with this answer from these verses

God is unchangingMalachi 3:6 - "For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed."
Revelation 1:8 (New International Version)
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."


It is too late to change your mind after you die Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Rev 21:24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

God is love, is community (the trinity), and does not need us in any way. For one, God is all-powerful, all-knowing, etc. and is the only source of reason, understanding, etc. and if God chooses to create beings in order to love them and share love with them, then it is for a good reason, whether we can see that reason or not. That point made, honestly it could be as simple as this, "the more the merrier".

And one more thing, God did not ever "force" us to love him. He gave us the choice of loving or rejecting Him. You have the choice to love or reject Him, If you choose to love God and be a member of His people by putting faith in His son Jesus for redemption, then you shall be with Him, for all eternity. But if you choose to reject God, which you have all rights and chances to do, you choose to live apart from God, which is what we call Hell. God is life, if you live apart from God, then you live in death. God doesn't choose this for us, He lets us choose this. It just happens to be a choice that has terrible consequences. Which is why He sent Jesus to redeem His people.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm kind of slowing down, and my fingers are starting to hurt. Thanks for the explanation.

I answered this somewhat before, but I'll reiterate - God created people perfect, but, since He didn't want little robots running around, He gave them free will. When they sinned, they became imperfect. Even the devil was originally the second-in-command before he chose to sin.

How could perfect beings choose imperfection (even if given the freedom to)?


I answered this before, but I'll reiterate:
1) I'm going to admit right now that this is a very difficult question to answer. The response is nuanced, and requires a good deal of explanation. If I am not clear enough, please let me know.
2) I believe that God can change His mind. How do I reconcile that with the fact of an all-knowing God? First, I believe that God is outside of time. He created time, so by definition He is not bound by it. I believe that God, while one God, has many natures. In relation to time, I believe that He has a nature that is in the past, a nature in the present, and a nature in the future (to keep it simple). The nature of God that is in the past can, if He so chooses, limit His own knowledge, while the nature in the future knows the choices that will be made, etc.

1) Again, God created humanity perfect.
2) God only has one requirement, that we accept his free gift of eternal life offered through His Son Jesus Christ.
3) As to why God has that requirement, it is because He is holy yet merciful. He is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance; however, His mercy does not override His holiness. Humans who choose to be imperfect (which is all of us) must choose to accept the way to become righteous.

Why would God create anything at all? Why create the physical world as it now exists, and suffering and malevolence along with it? Would it not have been more benevolent to not bring anything into existence?


1) No. Why would he want to?

The question was could, not why (whose to say why)....

Marcion



I came up with this answer from these verses

God is unchangingMalachi 3:6 - "For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed."
Revelation 1:8 (New International Version)
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."


It is too late to change your mind after you die Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Rev 21:24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

I agree. The only question I have is whether or not God gives people a chance after death to repent. I personally do not believe he does, and, as I said, I wouldn't stake my soul on it, but there is the possibility. Some well-meaning people believe that.

My big point here is that people are judged by the light that they have (cf. Romans 2:12-15, 5:13).

1. If I were a tribesman in the deep Amazonian rainforest where no missionary traveled, and I had no idea of the existence of the Christian God, would I go to Hell? If I lived a good life?

2. What about the other faiths present in the world? Do the members of their religions go to the Christian Hell? Or are there multiple gods? Does each person simply have the afterlife they personally believe in?

Amestria']How could perfect beings choose imperfection (even if given the freedom to)?

1) This is a duel use of the word perfect. The way "perfect" is used in the New Testament is "what things ought to be," not necessarily without flaw. A tree can be perfect, but two trees can be different. What is the standard? God Himself? The creature can never be up to the standard of the Creator. This is an imperfect use of the word perfect, if that makes sense.

Amestria']Why would God create anything at all? Why create the physical world as it now exists, and suffering and malevolence along with it? Would it not have been more benevolent to not bring anything into existence?

The question was could, not why (whose to say why)....

1) Reference Smunkeeville's arguments.
2) This type of question becomes paradoxical. Any question pertaining to the unrevealed nature of God is outside the province of man to answer. God created something, and man has the ability to examine things within the creation. It's as if we're in a giant box, and the Creator is outside the box. We cannot know what is outside the box, and one cannot apply the standards that are inside the box to those things which are outside the box, since we cannot know what the standards outside the box are. The question is therefore impossible to answer.

NEW WORLD TRANSLATION, but Jesus himself says it at Matt 6:10.

I do not think it wise for someone to try to answer all these questions about God and Jesus Christ. We are asked to be disiples of Jesus; a student who through reading the Gospel and prayer we can learn more about him and follow his ways. It is not intended that we be experts, someone who does not know this hasn't learned much about Christianity at all.

Originally posted by Marcion
2) Here's the simple truth. Anyone who rejects Jesus Christ's substitutionary death on the cross is going to hell. I don't care if they are Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, Baptist, Methodist, Pentacostal, Catholic, atheist, pagan, New Age, etc., if they do not believe that Jesus died for their sins, was buried, and rose again three days later, and that he is the only way to heaven, is lost in their sins.

So does that mean regardless of how "good" I may be, and how hard I try to repent for my sins, and if I do not believe Jesus is the savior, I'm going to hell anyway?

I'm not getting offended at all, or getting all shirty with you, I'm just curious.

Just two questions from before that I wanted to try my hand at answering -


Why was there no attempt to redeem the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah, instead of simply biblical-nuking it?

As I recall, there is a little passage before Sodom and Gomorrah that goes like this -
The Almighty: Sodom and Gomorrah are really terrible places, I'm going to blow them up.
Abraham: Whoa, whoa God! Whoa! What if there's 50 decent people?
Big Hoo-Ha: Then I won't blow them up.
Abraham: Ok... 45?
God: Nope
Abe: 40?
God: Nope
Abe: 35?
God: Nope
Abe: 30? 20? 10?
God: Abe, if there are even 10 half-decent people, I'll spare the city.
Abe: Oh, that's a relief... So, are there?
God: No.

In all seriousness, the cities were completely and totally depraved, like Boston, only much much worse (j/k, I've never been to Boston, I'm sure it's wonderful there). The people were terribly evil - to the point perhaps of no longer being redeemable because they were beyond the point of seeking redemption. Abraham (then Abram) interrogates God, feeling much the same way you do: God, what about the innocents? And the point - there were no innocent. God promised to spare the city for the sake of ten, but there were not even ten. It was merely Lot and his family, and it was far better to remove the small group of the righteous from the city, too small perhaps to hope to bring about a society-wide repentance, than to allow such a society to exist and possibly spread. Consider this - the first thing that the residents of Sodom did when they saw three men entering Lot's house was demand that Lot allow them to rape his guests. That seems pretty far gone to me.



Why is God in the Old Testament generally vengeful/just, and God in the New Testament is loving and forgiving.

Three points -
1. You get a different view of God based on who the author is, and what parts of God's character that author chooses to expound. A lot of books of the New Testament were written by St. Paul (who was an ex-Pharisee, not a tax collector). Consider that the four harshest books of the Old Testament (Exodus-Deuteronomy) are written by Moses, with his successor Joshua continuing the tradition. Moses, being selected by God to bring Israel out of Egypt and then trusted him to reveal to the Israelites the Commandments, clearly saw absolute obedience to God as the number one priority. St. Paul, being selected to preach the message of redemption brought by Christ, placed more focus on grace and forgiveness than holiness and justice.
2. It has been argued that God in Old Testament times had to protect the Messianic Line, which meant brutally punishing anything which threatened it. Such a threat would not only be an offense to God for opposing His will, but an offense to humanity as it would endanger the redemption of the entire species. With the redemption secured in the establishment of the New Covenant, God no longer had to resort to grave necessities.
3. The best example of God's character in the New Testament is Christ, and while Christ is often portrayed as being perpetually pious, reserved, with a good word for everyone and just generally hugging everything, that is not always the case of His character. When speaking of our conduct toward others, He urged us to forgive those who do us wrong, love our enemies as much as ourselves, and to never take vengeance. However, consider also that Jesus spoke about Hell more than anyone else, affirmed its reality and eternity, and taught that God would separate the saved from the damned to receive the last Reward or Punishment. In general, Jesus never denied God's authority to judge, reward, and punish, but he denied our authority to pretend to God's throne by doing those same things.

Let me rephrase that: somewhere in the Bible it says "God Is Love." Therefore, why does Love force the ultimate punishment on people that can be redeemed? If someone dies, and sees the glory and light of God, as well as the error of their ways, wouldn't they repent, making them eligible for entry into Heaven?

That would make life on Earth irrelevant. This is your chance to either except God or reject Him, at death it is too late. God knows that a man or woman who lives a life in opposition to Him who suddenly "repents" at the gate of Heaven does not do so because he or she loves God. They do so because they realize that they had just spent eighty years of their life rejecting calls to faith, and that every time they had blasphemed, or stolen, or cheated or even felt lust, or hated someone they had offended the Infinite Being they see before them, and that this sudden repentance is not faith, but a wretched creature trying to save itself a second too late. There are some people who could convince themselves that the vision of God was just a hallucination of a dying cerebrum, and maintain that belief through an eternity in Hell. God is Love, but God is also Holy, Merciful but also Just. His mercy stays His hand for as long as a human needs to choose God or turn away, and when that brief time passes away, the decision is made.

-------

Ooh that's long...

I do not think it wise for someone to try to answer all these questions about God and Jesus Christ. We are asked to be disiples of Jesus; a student who through reading the Gospel and prayer we can learn more about him and follow his ways. It is not intended that we be experts, someone who does not know this hasn't learned much about Christianity at all.

How is this thread not discipleship? We are discussing questions about the bible so that we may understand him better. Personally i fell the this is a great example of ministry as collectively we are being ministers to each other, asking and answering questions so that all can see and learn (even those that are answering) how to be better disciples of God and Jesus. Thats like saying that a teachers isn't teaching because s/he is leading a discussion rather that preforming a lecture.

"What is the meaning of ps 37:29 "The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it"?"

Well, God promises the righteous the earth. The righteous are the ones that have put their faith in God that He will save them from their unrighteousness. If you ask for forgiveness and are humbled before God, then you will be forgiven. God is a righteous God, and only righteous people can be in His presence, so it is a requirement for heaven, and/or the new earth that God promises His people in Revelation 21.

"Just one question that i have dealing with revalations: If God is to descend into New Jeruselem with us Humans after the final judgement, then what is to be in the New Heaven?"

How much do we know about the current heaven? Honestly, heaven is so much more wonderful than we could possibly even begin to understand, so having the details of it is kind of an impossible task. There are scriptures mentioning streets of gold and some other descriptions, (I fail to remember exactly what scripture that is at the moment), but even that will fall very short of what heaven will truly be like.

"Does the Christian religion denounce and despise other, non-Christian religions, and think of them as unrepenting sinners? ...Do they believe they are heathens, as the stereotype goes? What do they think of Neo-Pagans?"

True Christianity would not denounce its own members. Denominations have their differences, but most denominations agree on the main doctrines that they believe in God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, Jesus came and died for our sins, and our faith in Jesus is what saves us and brings us back into God's presence as one of His people. Idealistically, all churchs that stick to these things are all members of what I called True Christianity, even if they disagree on how to have worship, or what is appropriate to wear, or whatever churchs usually disagree on these days.

Now, realistically, we are humans and we being very fallible, we screw up a lot. There is most definately a problem with a lot of Christians not acting like Christ, and they misrepresent Christianity. I won't make a judgement on what their judgement will be, (we all are going to be judged in the end), because I do not know their hearts, only God does. Sadly, a lot of Christians do that very thing, and a lot of denominations put down other denominations, etc. Ghandi himself said that He loved Christ, and would have been a Christian if it weren't for the Christians that he had known. Being human leaves us in a worldly position of being able to fail, though Christians believe that God's grace covers our mess ups. Frequently our humility doesn't exceed our ability to believe strongly that we cannot be wrong, which leads to arguments about doctrines, wordly issues, the way we should dress, and sometimes it gets just totally ridiculous with both sides arguing about stuff that doesn't have any real significance in light of eternity, and people end up acting very unChristlike.

I personally would apologize to anyone who has been hurt or negatively affected by another Christian because it was certainly not done as a representation of True Christianity. Just remember that we are still human, and though we do have our faults, that doesn't mean that our God does.

I'm not completely sure what you mean by neo-pagans, but this quick explanation of Christianity should answer what you asked. Christianity cannot have any part in any belief that contradicts what I outlined earlier, the belief in God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, that Jesus was the Son of God, and was incarnate and made man, was fully God, and fully man, and that He died for us on the cross for our sins so that if we put our faith in Him that we would be saved. This is Christianity, it is really that simple. Just to mention it, both the Apostles Creed and the Nicean Creed outline Christianity very well also. But back to my point, any belief system that denies these foundational doctrines is something that Christianity cannot connect with. Following true Christianity, a Christian would not try to force his or her beliefs upon someone else, we believe that God gave us free-will for a reason, but we do what we can to spread the Gospel of Christ to all that will hear it because it is what we believe to be the truth, God commands that we share the Gospel with others, and also, if we love God and love other people like how God wants us to, then we want to share the gospel to everyone possible in order to save them from eternity seperated from God.

I do not think it wise for someone to try to answer all these questions about God and Jesus Christ. We are asked to be disiples of Jesus; a student who through reading the Gospel and prayer we can learn more about him and follow his ways. It is not intended that we be experts, someone who does not know this hasn't learned much about Christianity at all.

That's true: no one has to be a genius to be a Christian (even the atheists will agree with us there). And to be a real Christian, theology and apologetics are useless beyond basic doctrines. True faith comes from a subjective relationship with God through prayer, meditation and study.

But apologetics serve a vital interest - proving that the faith can withstand inquiry and is not merely a blind acceptance of a Grand Fraud. It's also fun to catch atheists off-guard by demonstrating that you are both (1) an orthodox Christian - aka fundamentalist minus negative connotations - and (2) literate. Well, it doesn't really catch them off-guard, but I think they secretly are surprised by the literacy.

Originally posted by Marcion


So does that mean regardless of how "good" I may be, and how hard I try to repent for my sins, and if I do not believe Jesus is the savior, I'm going to hell anyway?

I'm not getting offended at all, or getting all shirty with you, I'm just curious.

Yes. The Bible says in Romans that "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." It also says that "The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." John 3:16, Jesus' own words, state, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." Jesus is the only way to heaven. The Bible says, "All our righteousness is as filthy rags," and, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy He saved us." It also says that salvation is "a gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast."

My boss is making me leave work now, but if you want to know more about this, talk to Smunkeeville or one of the others answering questions here, or you can e-mail me at scdrake@liberty.edu. I would be more than happy to answer any questions you might have and to show you, specifically, how to avoid hell and restore a relationship with God.

Actually, I just got a few more minutes, so let me lay it out briefly.

1) God created us to be with Him.
2) Sin separated us from God.
3) Nothing we can ever do can remove that wall that is between us and Him. There is no chance of us missing hell without a miracle.
4) God provided that miracle in the form of His Son. 2000 years ago, Jesus Christ was born of a virgin. He lived a sinless life, the only human to have done so, and He took our place by shedding His blood on a rugged cross and voluntarily taking our sins - past, present, and future, upon Himself. He died, but He didn't stay dead. Three days later He rose from the dead under his own power, conquering death and allowing us to do the same.
5) Salvation is a free gift. We have done nothing to earn it, and we can do nothing to get it. We must simply reach out and take it by believing in Jesus' substitutionary death.
6) How do you do this? First, you must admit that you are a sinner. This can sometimes be hard, but it's true. Everyone has done something wrong. Secondly, you must believe in your heart that he died, was buried, and rose again. Thirdly, you must confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord. Pray and ask Him to save you from your sins, and you will be saved.

If you have any questions, feel free to e-mail me at scdrake@liberty.edu.

I do not think it wise for someone to try to answer all these questions about God and Jesus Christ. We are asked to be disiples of Jesus; a student who through reading the Gospel and prayer we can learn more about him and follow his ways. It is not intended that we be experts, someone who does not know this hasn't learned much about Christianity at all.

Have you read Proverbs? It talks quite abit about wisdom being very important. Other than that, how exactly are we to spread the Gospel to the world if we do not understand anything about Christianity? We have to be able to answer these questions if we are to be able to have people understand why we believe in Christ. It would be like going to speak at a political debate, without having any clue why you believe in the issues that you believe in. A politician that did that wouldn't have a chance at actually having a real debate.

Being a disciple of Christ isn't just about getting ourselves closer to God, but also about spreading the Gospel. They go together.

I don't mean to insult anyones intelligence. As almost all of you probably allready know, The DaVinci Code is a work of fiction. It's author claims it to be a work of fiction. I'm just saying not to take it any more literally then you might take other works of fiction, such as Harry Potter. Sadly a great deal of people take it seriously.

Sadly yes. that book is put together from certain non-canonical scriptures that have never been considered good by Christians. There were certain sects of people who believed in some of those things, but Christianity as a whole rejected them, plainly because they contradicted things that were firmly believed from other scriptures that were much better known and trusted, they didn't make sense, and some of them aren't even complete scriptures. There are things assumed in that book that when looked at the "lost scriptures" there are also other assumptions that could have been made, and other assumptions that make much more sense than what Dan Brown wrote about. Add all that to some fancy conspiracy theories and tada, you have a great fictional novel, but not a historical novel.

Do you believe that people are sent to Hell through an action of God for a reason, or through something else? Err, that was probably not worded too clearly, so I'll put up a different version of the same question again in hopes that you understand me: Does God send people to Hell as punishment, or is Hell something different?

Romans 6:7 states that "He who has died has been acquited from his Sin."

Amestria'] How could perfect beings choose imperfection (even if given the freedom to)?

If God, the Supreme being of the universe and the creator of the universe who is beyond all time or matter, wants to give us a choice of choosing His way or our own, then I'm pretty sure that it is possible. That make sense? And we were tempted with the idea that we could be like God. That is what the serpent told Eve, is that they would be like God, equal to God. Sounds tempting doesn't it? Its quite like humans to want more than what we are given.

Amestria']Why would God create anything at all? Why create the physical world as it now exists, and suffering and malevolence along with it? Would it not have been more benevolent to not bring anything into existence?)

One, God did not create the suffering and malevolence with the world. Earth and its inhabitants were perfect. And honestly it might seem like it would have been more benevolent to have not created than to create what ended up like this. But God knew the outcome, He knew that Adam and Eve would sin and God knew that He would send Jesus to die on the cross before He ever created anything, and yet He chose to create us anyway. If I fail to represent God's intentions, I'm just betting that He already knows that it is all worth it in the end, because He knows the outcome.

Maybe it is something like this, (maybe), Was it worth it to go to war with England to be free from tyrrany? We went to war risking many many lives, so that we could be free. Many people died to give us freedom. God sent His own son to die to give us freedom. That is one way to look at it. One small parallel.

Romans 6:7 states that "He who has died has been acquited from his Sin."

Just to point this out, If you read more of what Paul wrote in Romans 6, for instance verse 5-7:

"If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. For we know that our old self was crucified with hiim so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin- because anyone who has died has been freed from sin." (Romans 6:5-7, NIV)

Paul was writing about Christians, not all of mankind. Just had to point that out.

1. If I were a tribesman in the deep Amazonian rainforest where no missionary traveled, and I had no idea of the existence of the Christian God, would I go to Hell? If I lived a good life?

Scripturally, there really is no other good explanation for this other than to say that they would have to hear about Christ, and put their faith in Him to be saved. But there are some other thoughts to add to the scriptures,(none that contradict scripture, just thoughts and possibilities). I have heard of stories where a person like that who had never heard of the Gospel or Christianity, or of Christ, and they were affected strongly, (I'm talking a life-change) by an experience they had and when they came in contact with some Christian missionaries they had found what they had experienced. They said that they knew Christ, but they had not known what to call Him. I can't explain this other than to say that God can do anything, anywhere. The only other possibility is that while we live within time and are limited by it, God sees beyond time, and as a possibility, He makes sure that the Gospel reaches people when they would be open to it. This is more speculation on my part, but it makes some sense. God's mission of reaching all peoples is not limited by our inability to reach every single person on earth.

To put it a little plainer, God knows when a tribal people in Africa would be open to the Gospel, and possibly he arranges His people to find those tribes when they would be open to it. This is a possibility.

2. What about the other faiths present in the world? Do the members of their religions go to the Christian Hell? Or are there multiple gods? Does each person simply have the afterlife they personally believe in?

Umm, this requires a definition of what it means to be God. I'm not trying by any means to try to describe exactly what God is like, but I'll put it in what is definate about Him. God is all-powerful, all-knowing, all present. He is not limited by time or space. It is impossible to have 2 or more Gods. God is The Creator, not created, thus everything else other than God, is inferior to God, and thus cannot be God or a God. This make sense?

This pretty much narrows the list of religions down to only a few that could actually be possible logically, and if we really get critical about things I will proclaim loudly that Christianity is the only religion that makes sense wholly(when looked at from a good perspective). But, that is for another discussion. We now understand that there can be only one God, and so that brings us to making the statement that there can only be one true faith or religion, because God cannot contradict Himself, thus a religion that either has contradictions cannot be from God, and two or more religions that contradict each other cannot be from the same God. So, we are down to the task of deciding which one faith or religion is the one that is wholly true, without logical error. Which we can further discuss if that is asked. But as far as your question, there can only be one God, one religion, one version of the afterlife, etc. Which is why it is extremely important for people to fully understand the choices they make in what they choose to believe.

LUKE 23:43 - tHIS IS WHERE THE EVIL-DOER DYING BESIDE CHRIST ASKS JESUS TO REMEMBER HIM WHEN HE GETS TO HIS KINGDOM. My question is what was the fate of that evil-doer following his death.

1) This is a duel use of the word perfect. The way "perfect" is used in the New Testament is "what things ought to be," not necessarily without flaw. A tree can be perfect, but two trees can be different. What is the standard? God Himself? The creature can never be up to the standard of the Creator. This is an imperfect use of the word perfect, if that makes sense.

It really is more of a perspective of what "perfect" is that is the problem with the question. Because what we might call a flaw in this culture is different than in other cultures, and also different than what God would call a flaw. Thus, a really big nose wouldn't necessarily be a flaw to God, but maybe he would call it variety. Maybe what we might call a personality flaw, might be what God calls character. I believe that we can easily use the word perfect when describing mankind before the fall, because of these very things. It is correct that the created cannot be completely like the creator, but being that God Himself, the all-mighty, all-knowing creator, created us, I'm going to say that the word perfect would still apply to Adam and Eve pre-sin. Just a thought.

LUKE 23:43 - tHIS IS WHERE THE EVIL-DOER DYING BESIDE CHRIST ASKS JESUS TO REMEMBER HIM WHEN HE GETS TO HIS KINGDOM. My question is what was the fate of that evil-doer following his death.

"Then he said, 'Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.'
Jesus answered him, 'I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.'"

The quick easy and simple answer is that he went to paradise/heaven when he died. Jesus, like he said, tells the truth, and he very plainly said that the criminal/theif/evildoer, who had already admitted that he deserved what punishment that he was getting and stated that Jesus did not deserve it, would go to heaven.

In case there isn't any more discussion tonight, thanks everyone for the questions and some good answers and discussions. I haven't gotten to discuss things like this in depth in a long time. I always learn something new. I hope I helped clarify things for someone rather than confuse. And sorry for the multiple double postings, when there is so much to talk about, it is hard to put it all in one post.

later,

adam and eve's children in order to continue the human race wouldn't they have to commit incest :eek: (idk if i spelled that right)?

2) I believe that God can change His mind.

*snip snip*

2) DISCLAIMER: Most of the people who claim to have "spoken with God" have contridicted Scripture, proving that they have not.


How do you reconcile the conflict between these two statements? If God can change his mind, couldn't he add to or contradict the Bible by means of new prophets?

ok ok. A few little problems someone might help me out with.


1) Why, if your god loves us all, will most of us be going to hell (you know - few are chosen and 'Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way that leadeth unto salvation, and few there be that find it.") If your god loves all of us, couldn't he find a better way?

2) How could i be happy in heaven with loved ones in hell? And besides, what type of offense could possibly justify eternal, unbearable torture in Hell? Isnt God overeacting? Did everyone who died before jesus go to hell?

3) Why did god put the apple tree in the garden of eden? Shade perhaps? If it was truly as temptation, gods omniscient is he not? He knew what was going to happen. What was the point? Furthermore according to genesis Gen2:17 god LIES to adam and eve where as satan tells them the truth (Gen 3:5) Why did he lie?

4) If your God wants us to worship him through our own free will, why threaten us with Hell? That isn't free will at all.

5) Why are so many christian holidays on the same day as Pagan holidays? If your religion was true couldnt christians have converted pagans by appealing to their reason/faith?

6) See 2 Kings 2:23-24 and tell me why your just and merciful god sent bears to kill children for insulting his prophet?

7) What is the sin that people committed that is so incredibly bad that your God had to become flesh and die to correct?

8) Are all members of other faiths bad and condemned to hell? Can you justify your answer with quotes from the bible?

9) Can you tell me what sin is exactly and how you arrived at this conclusion?

10) see Ex 4:11 and tell me why God would cause blindness, deafness, and dumbness?

11) Should the book of revelation be taken literally?

12) In light of mathew 6:5-6 why shouldnt prayer be discouraged in schools?

13) Why is 2 Kings 19 exactly identical to Isaiah 37?

14) Is Jesus's three days in Hell really an ultimate sacrifice, when most of humanity is going to spend eternity there?

15) How do you feel about original sin? How do you feel about Psalm 51:5?

16) Revelation 22:16 says that Jesus is the "offspring of David." Mary was not descended from David, but Joseph was. Doesn't this mean that Jesus wasn't the son of your God at all, but the (mortal and not divine) son of Joseph?

17) Should women be ordained or even be allowed to speak in church? I certainly have no problem with it, but 1 Corinthians 14:34 seems to disagree with me.

18) Is sex bad? I ask after reading 1 corinthians, Galatians 5:17, 1 thessalonians 4:3, James 1:14-15, Matthew 5:27-31, Luke17:27, and Revelation 14:4.

19) What do you think of Matthew 6:7? Hail mary full of grace...

I could go on for hours but i think that will do.

A snake talks, The earth gets totally emerged in water, I figure of a serpent on a staff keeps people from dying after being bitten by a serpent, Mankind farms in the first generation and learns to herd animals in the second, Every one in the world speaks the same language till they try to make a special tower, etc. etc. on and on and on.

Although I do believe things happen that science can not explain. I don't believe many of the stories in the Bible are related to real events or happenings. Why should I believe the Bible is some magical word of God?

I also seriously doubt you know why I do not like your religion.

I will explain why I do not like your religion, Your religion and all old book religions are nothing more than organized superstitions. Superstition is responsible for witch hunts, inquisitions, and crusades, The mechanisms that cause these bad things to happen is delusions. People's actions are based on their beliefs, if there beliefs are wrong their actions will also likely be wrong. If a person believes in witches they will likely find witches to persecute whether they are real or not and in case you don't get it there is no such thing as the types of witches the people believed in during the Salem witch trials. If people believe in homophiles (homosexuals for the historically inept) they will likely find homophiles to persecute. If a person believes black people looking type looking creatures are not human but rather cattle they will likely support slavery. If a person believes such and such a behavior is bad for a person and or society they will likely seek to prohibit that activity. Whether they are wrong or not does not matter it is what that person believes in that determines what that person does. An activity could be beneficial even if a book people claim is God's word says it is not. Take for example the desecration of dead bodies. If it wasn't for people doing the unholy act of taking apart and examining dead bodies we would not have modern health care. There are many many more instances where superstitious religion interferes with real life.

How do you justify believing in your belief and expecting others at least to some degree to act as if what you believe is real? ( and not make believe which it is )

A christian and at the same time a rational thinker. They'll claim anything to give them a little more credibility. We're not fooled you know. You're all traitors to reason.

(I'm terribly sorry. I know that was uncalled for but I do have to make my opinion clear. :fluffle: )

in a few of the threads i have seen on here many times the christians bash an athiest with either your a nazi or the im so much better than you becouse i belive weapons
so ok fair play i dont wish to be bought into a war in ethics or religion but here i go
id love answers to these please
1, if god wanted blind faith then why did he let us think and becouse he has given us the power of thought isnt it possible he intended us to both question and think on all his supposed works ?
2, simply becouse a person doent belive in god as described in the mangled book called the bible should it deny him heaven ?
3, man is by natrue inperfect an full of flaws why should a person follow a book handled an altred by the hand of man when he can follow the ten commandments an cut out the hard reading thereby (as an athiest does) lives his life by rules
4, god said worshep no other idol but me but in the holy trinity there are three wouldnt it make more sence to cut out the son an father an speak directly to the organ grinder as he/she/it decribes?
5,why do organised religions try to persicute other religions when ALL paths lead to this god surely this is one upmanship of the worst kind an also if you look a A MORTAL SIN try PRIDE on that
6,why does the bible require people to go to church to worshep when god should as the bible suggests be worsheped thrugh deed througot the day instead of realgating the god they preach to to a possible just on sundays service ?
7,why does the church reqiure donations when this was not only frowned upon but also had the shite kicked outta it by jesus ? (the part when he went nuts in a church and yes i know some of what went off ) surely the bible is asking for time and effort instead of the evils of money ?

ok ive asked i hope you may answer i dont intend to offend but im sick of people trying to judge anyone when the bible itself said ''judge not lest ye be judged!!''
peace unto you all

adam and eve's children in order to continue the human race wouldn't they have to commit incest :eek: (idk if i spelled that right)?

Yes they would have to commit incest given that there was relatively few people on the Earth, however when the Mosaic Law (Law of Moses) was given by God, God forbid the continuation of incest. (LEVITICUS 18:6-18)

[QUOTE=The New Great Zane]ok ok. A few little problems someone might help me out with.



3) Why did god put the apple tree in the garden of eden? Shade perhaps? If it was truly as temptation, gods omniscient is he not? He knew what was going to happen. What was the point? Furthermore according to genesis Gen2:17 god LIES to adam and eve where as satan tells them the truth (Gen 3:5) Why did he lie?

In Genesis 2:17 God did not lie, God said Adam would die in that day, God was using this term in the biblical sense of 1 day = 1000 years, Adam lived to be 930 years old (Genesis 5:5), Satan lied in Genesis 3:4 When he told Eve that She would not die. Remember Adam and Eve were meant to live forever with the Earth as their home and everything animal in subjection to them.

Just one question that i have dealing with revalations: If God is to descend into New Jeruselem with us Humans after the final judgement, then what is to be in the New Heaven?

As, I have interpreted it. The New Heaven and New Earth spoken of in revelation will be one and the same place.

ok ok. A few little problems someone might help me out with.



19) What do you think of Matthew 6:7? Hail mary full of grace...

I could go on for hours but i think that will do.

What Jesus was pointing out is that our prayers need to be heart-felt, and if you say the same thing day-in, day-out you end up with no feeling. As an ex-Catholic I used to say the Hail Mary etc, but I don't now.

Please note I am not attacking anybody's beliefs of religious practices, I am merely stating my opinion based upon my understanding of Matt 6:7.

You should read The DaVinci Code. It talks about how Jesus was married, had a child/children, and has descendents. And no, the entire book isn't about Jesus. The main idea of the book is that Christianity is based on lies and fabrications. Not to insult anyone. Just saying what the book is about.

You can also find this novel in the fiction section of your bookstore.

A christian and at the same time a rational thinker. They'll claim anything to give them a little more credibility. We're not fooled you know. You're all traitors to reason.

(I'm terribly sorry. I know that was uncalled for but I do have to make my opinion clear. :fluffle: )

Knock it off. This is flaming.

One thing has always bothered me about the bible, Incest. Adam and Eve had five children, one was killed and the other was "banished." wouldn't this mean that there would be a huge amount of incest? To me, as an agnostic, the story of Adam and Eve is just a way for primitive people to explain the world around them, but that's just me.

On another note, for those of you who call the "Da Vinci Code" fiction, read "Holy Blood, Holy Grail." This book gives a wealth of proof for the theory that Jesus had a child.

In the little I read of Genesis, God clearly appeared before people and conversed with them. Why does that no longer happen?We are separated from God by sin.WRONG! This is what you get for asking Protestants questions... Anyway, God never conversed with any mortal after the fall of man in Eden. Whenever a person converses, fights or interacts with God in the Old Testament it is actually a common misstranslation, they are actually interacting with a Heavenly being who's name I can't remember. All I remember is the guy has Hebrew name, no genitals and big arse sword.

"adam and eve's children in order to continue the human race wouldn't they have to commit incest (idk if i spelled that right)?"

Yes, however, biblically it was not a sin to have done so until several chapters later which was in actually timeline several hundred years possibly a thousand or so years, not sure off the top of my head. There are also other theories as to whether there were other people around as well as Adam and Eve, Cain, Abel, and Seth, for the sons of Adam and Eve found wives, so they wouldn't have had to commit incest. But of this we cannot be sure.

"I believe that God can change His mind.

2) DISCLAIMER: Most of the people who claim to have "spoken with God" have contridicted Scripture, proving that they have not."

God cannot change His mind. Would you ever have to change your mind if you knew without fail the outcome of your decision?



1) Why, if your god loves us all, will most of us be going to hell (you know - few are chosen and 'Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way that leadeth unto salvation, and few there be that find it.") If your god loves all of us, couldn't he find a better way?

If people do not want to believe in God, then they have chosen their own destiny. What better way could there possibly be? God has given us more than we deserve by sending Jesus to atone for our sins.

2) How could i be happy in heaven with loved ones in hell? And besides, what type of offense could possibly justify eternal, unbearable torture in Hell? Isnt God overeacting? Did everyone who died before jesus go to hell?

This is a hard question, but a good one. To us it seems like we would never be able to live under those circumstances, but while I can't really explain it, I know that God has promised a New Heaven and a New Earth where there will be no more mourning, crying, etc. Sorry I can't be much more descriptive of this, but it is a hard concept to grasp.

3) Why did god put the apple tree in the garden of eden? Shade perhaps? If it was truly as temptation, gods omniscient is he not? He knew what was going to happen. What was the point? Furthermore according to genesis Gen2:17 god LIES to adam and eve where as satan tells them the truth (Gen 3:5) Why did he lie?

He lied? The serpent lied to Eve, not God. The serpent said that God lied, but that isn't the truth now is it. God told Adam to not eat of the tree, you might notice that Eve had not entered the scene yet. Then when asked about the tree, Eve says that they may not touch the tree or they would die. That was either her or Adam adding to God's command to them, which was incorrect. And then the serpent lied to Eve telling her that she would not have died. Well Adam and Eve are no longer with us today, so apparently they died. Considering they were in God's presence in Eden, I bet they would have never died if they had never sinned.

Next, the purpose of the tree itself. This is kind of another hard thing to understand, because God most definately knew what Adam and Eve would do. But yet He did it anyway. Well, God did not want robots when He created us. He wanted people that would choose Him, and to spend eternity with Him. He wanted people that were capable of a choice, and capable of love. If He had not have put the tree there, then He would not have been giving them a choice. He gave them the gift of free-will, and they chose to live outside of God's will for them.

4) If your God wants us to worship him through our own free will, why threaten us with Hell? That isn't free will at all.

It isn't a threat, it is a warning against our own self-destruction. We chose sin, and because of that sin, we are doomed to eternity without the presence of God. He has still given us a choice of spending eternity with God, or without God. The problem for us is that without the presence of God, we cannot be happy, we cannot love, we cannot have anything good, because God is the source of all those things. It is like choosing to spend eternity in either a sandy desert or a tropical island with lots of fresh water. That isn't a perfect illustration, but I hope it might help. We have the choice of the two.

5) Why are so many christian holidays on the same day as Pagan holidays? If your religion was true couldnt christians have converted pagans by appealing to their reason/faith?

I can't answer this question fully, as I'm not sure of the exact history of all the Christian holidays and pagan hollidays. The only one that I can really think that was both was Halloween, or Hallows eve. Easter and Christmas as far as I know are strictly Christian, and if they fall on the same day as a pagan holliday then honestly I just don't know. As far as Halloween goes, one of the versions of the story that I heard was that the church was trying to turn people away from that pagan ritual and turn them to something that is better spiritually. In evangelism, if you direct people away from one of their old religions or cultures practices, then you have to replace it with something, you can't just leave a void.

6) See 2 Kings 2:23-24 and tell me why your just and merciful god sent bears to kill children for insulting his prophet?

Hmmm, honestly I can't answer this very well, for I'm not familiar with this passage. The NIV says "youths" not children. That may be a bit of a difference, for it they were past the age of accountability then they were alittle different than mere children. Other than that, I'll just have to do some research. That is a good question.

7) What is the sin that people committed that is so incredibly bad that your God had to become flesh and die to correct?

The sin is rebellion against God. To put that more plainly, rebellion against God is anything against what He commands. God told Adam and Eve only one thing that they could not do. He didn't command them anything else, and they did it. And now that sin is passed on to us. And we are sinners both by blood and by action.

It wasn't any particular sin that was the problem, it was the fact that they/we have sinned that is the problem. Any sin, no matter how big or small, has the penalty of death. "For the wages of sin is Death", And if you look into Genesis and how Jewish traditions began, after the sin of Adam and Eve, God made garments made of animal skin for them. There was a death. For a sin, there had to be a death. Jesus had to take upon himself the sin of the entire world in order to save us all.

8) Are all members of other faiths bad and condemned to hell? Can you justify your answer with quotes from the bible?

I apologize, for I have forgotten where a particular bible passage is that says that very plainly. I will try to relocate it real soon, but its getting later where I am. All I can really say is that if someone has not put their faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and their savior from sin, then their sins have not been washed away, and they cannot stand righteous before God.

9) Can you tell me what sin is exactly and how you arrived at this conclusion?

If you read the Bible, and pay close attention to the affects of sin upon people, you will notice that it affects relationships first. When Adam and Eve sinned, the first thing they did was cover themselves with fig leaves. Before then they had been naked and unashamed, but after sin, they were no longer comfortable with each other and the relationship was hurt. And when God asked them what happened Adam turned the blame upon Eve, and Eve upon the snake. It also affected their relationship with God, for He could no longer walk among them. Look at sin all throughout the bible, and you will see that it is primarily a relational thing. It disrupts relationships between people and God, and between different people.

10) see Ex 4:11 and tell me why God would cause blindness, deafness, and dumbness?

That scripture is more or less just making the point that God is all-powerful and all-knowing and also is the creator of mankind who gave man his mouth to speak, his eyes to see and his ears to hear, so Moses should not make excuses or argue with God. Look at the context of what is going on around that particular scripture you pointed to.

11) Should the book of revelation be taken literally?

Oh, is this a long discussion, but I'm gonna cut it short. I don't know. I personally believe that God has given us tons of literal meanings within scripture, that are also usually loaded with symbolic meanings. God uses both. Honestly, anyone who says that the bible is 100% literal, or 100% symbolic is stupid, because the bible just doesn't make any sense when you put it that way. You have to look at the context of the scripture, the context of the historical timeline, the culture around the author, the literary structure, etc. Revelation has been confusing people for 2 thousand years. So I don't have a straight answer for you. I do take some stuff literally, but I also think some of it is probably more symbolic in nature. I guess we will find out when it happens eh?

12) In light of mathew 6:5-6 why shouldnt prayer be discouraged in schools?

Nope, Jesus was making a point of people not making a show out of prayer. People back then, and some people today, make a show out of prayer, and they act all holy and righteous like God is just soaking up every word from his lips, but the point of the persons prayer isn't to commune with God, but to get attention for himself. Now as far as whether kids should be encouraged by the teacher to pray or whether there should be a recitation of the anthem and then a classroom prayer right after is a different subject. But if a teacher or student wants to pray while they are at school, at home, at anywhere, then they should be allowed to. It is a right given by the Bill of Rights.

13) Why is 2 Kings 19 exactly identical to Isaiah 37?

Well, it makes sense, being it is the same part of the story, at the same part of the timeline, doesn't it? Isaiah was the prophet at the time of Hezekiah, and the scripture at the point is talking about Hezekiah and Isaiahs prophecy. Who says someone has to say something different about the same event in history?

14) Is Jesus's three days in Hell really an ultimate sacrifice, when most of humanity is going to spend eternity there?

The idea of Jesus being in Hell is not completely biblical. I can't say for sure whether it is true or not, but it doesn't make much sense to me. Jesus died for our sins. He was dead for 3 days, and I've never seen anything convincing about Jesus having gone to Hell. The Apostles creed mentions Jesus dieing and going to Hades, but Hades is not a referral to Hell, it is more or less stating that Jesus did in fact die, He was in the realm of the dead, not necessarily Hell. The ultimate sacrifice was that Jesus suffered horrendously and died a most shameful death on a cross, killed like a criminal. When He was innocent. God incarnate, died for us. I would say that was the ultimate sacrifice whether he spent 3 days in hell or not.

15) How do you feel about original sin? How do you feel about Psalm 51:5?

I believe that we are born sinful, we are the offspring of sinners, and we are born sinners in blood and action. Though I believe God's grace covers children who cannot understand the difference. God is gracious and Jesus stating that whoever becomes like a child is the greatest in Heaven kinda implies children are covered by grace until they reach the point of understanding right and wrong.

16) Revelation 22:16 says that Jesus is the "offspring of David." Mary was not descended from David, but Joseph was. Doesn't this mean that Jesus wasn't the son of your God at all, but the (mortal and not divine) son of Joseph?

I believe that it has more to do with the family than the bloodline. Because Jesus was born of a virgin, so really it had little to do with the earthly bloodline anyways. But that is a good question.

17) Should women be ordained or even be allowed to speak in church? I certainly have no problem with it, but 1 Corinthians 14:34 seems to disagree with me.

Honestly, I'm not sure. I've never had a problem with it, but the passage does bring up good questions. There are certain cultural things that we have to understand, because in that culture men were the leaders of the household, of the community, and the theocracy, women had little say. I'm sure that there was a reason behind Paul's writing this. But I would have to do more research on it before giving a full answer.

18) Is sex bad? I ask after reading 1 corinthians, Galatians 5:17, 1 thessalonians 4:3, James 1:14-15, Matthew 5:27-31, Luke17:27, and Revelation 14:4.

Without even looking at the scriptures, Sex is not bad. God created sex for us. He made it enjoyable. Why would he later condemn something He created? Now to look at what scripture says. The scripture in Matthew says nothing about sex between a married couple being bad, just adultery or lustful thoughts about women or men you aren't married to. The Luke passage says nothing about marriage being sinful, it says that life was going on normally when God flooded the earth. It was unexpected, just like how the end times of this earth will be unexpected, like a thief in the night. the galations passage is talking about the sinful nature, including but not limited to sexual immorality, which is sexual perversion and adultery, this description does not include married couples. Thessalonians again is mentioning sexual immorality, not sex between a married couple. the James passage is talking about temptation to sin, it isn't pointing out sexual sin particularly, and if it was it would be pointing to sexual immorality as bad, not married couples, just like the other passages. Now the Revelation passage is the closest to being troublesome you've seen, but it says "who did not defile themselves with women" what is it talking about when it says "defile"? Defile is the key word. If you are married and having sex with your wife, then it is not defiling yourself or her. But if you were having sex with other women(adultery) or sleeping around with lots of women, or anything like that that is not sex between a married man and woman, then that would be defiling yourself.

19) What do you think of Matthew 6:7? Hail mary full of grace

Are you talking about the "Hail Mary's" that Catholics do? If someone wants to pray that way then fine, unless they are making a show of it, and/or they aren't being simple when talking to God. God doesn't need people to outline their every detail of every problem. God knows all of it, so He doesn't necessarily need to hear it all, as long as you confess to Him, ask for forgiveness, give praise and thanks for His Grace, and are sincere with God. Jesus gave us a demonstration of a prayer, (the Lord's Prayer), because it outlines everything that we should want to cover in our prayers to God. Surrendering your will to God, asking for provision, asking for forgiveness, and protection from temptation, and praise.

That was more questions than I thought, lol. Hope I helped.

On another note, for those of you who call the "Da Vinci Code" fiction, read "Holy Blood, Holy Grail." This book gives a wealth of proof for the theory that Jesus had a child.

All over the New Testament it has been warned: towards the End of Days, false information will shoot everywhere. But those who grab firmly onto the Truth will be rescued.

On another note, for those of you who call the "Da Vinci Code" fiction, read "Holy Blood, Holy Grail." This book gives a wealth of proof for the theory that Jesus had a child.

I cannot believe there are people in the World that still believe in "Holy Blood, Holy Grail." As a history student and just listening to my Professors. This book has been disproven so many times. Also, the authors just deny that they are wrong, They have given no real solid arguments for anything they put forth in their book. The so-called "Wealth of Proof" is in the words of Homer Simpson "Bullplop".

If the Old Testament is just as valid as the New, why don't most Christians abide by dietry law as prescribed in the Old Testament?

Why don't Christians believe in valid Prophets like Buddha and Muhammad?

Why are so many christian holidays on the same day as Pagan holidays? If your religion was true couldnt christians have converted pagans by appealing to their reason/faith?

I can't answer this question fully, as I'm not sure of the exact history of all the Christian holidays and pagan hollidays. The only one that I can really think that was both was Halloween, or Hallows eve. Easter and Christmas as far as I know are strictly Christian, and if they fall on the same day as a pagan holliday then honestly I just don't know. As far as Halloween goes, one of the versions of the story that I heard was that the church was trying to turn people away from that pagan ritual and turn them to something that is better spiritually. In evangelism, if you direct people away from one of their old religions or cultures practices, then you have to replace it with something, you can't just leave a void.

Should women be ordained or even be allowed to speak in church? I certainly have no problem with it, but 1 Corinthians 14:34 seems to disagree with me.

Honestly, I'm not sure. I've never had a problem with it, but the passage does bring up good questions. There are certain cultural things that we have to understand, because in that culture men were the leaders of the household, of the community, and the theocracy, women had little say. I'm sure that there was a reason behind Paul's writing this. But I would have to do more research on it before giving a full answer.



The answer to the First one is that Early Christians in an attempt to ease the conversion of Pagan's adopted these Holidays and changed them. They also destroyed Pagan holy sites and built Churches there. Christmas was changed from a Pagan Holiday Feast in honour of the Winter Solstice. All in an attempt to ease the transition.


The second question is that in the Early Years of the Church and in Jewish Culture the Men would sit on one side and the Women on the other. Paul is referring to the practice of Women yelling questions at their Husbands during the Service. This was put into Place to stop these Women from disrupting the Service. It has nothing to do with Women preaching.

If the Old Testament is just as valid as the New, why don't most Christians abide by dietry law as prescribed in the Old Testament?

Why don't Christians believe in valid Prophets like Buddha and Muhammad?

The answer to this question is that the Dietary Laws in the Old Testament are Jewish Customs and are do not need to be followed to be a Christian. Peter had a Revelation when he was asked to Minister to Gentiles that they did not have to abide by Dietary Laws and here is a quote from Paul's Letter to the Romans Chapter 14 Verse 14 "As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean."
This supports the fact that it is a Christian's own choice what to eat and not eat.

Second Question
"For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Revelation 22:18-19
This pretty clearly states that the Bible is the only Revelation from God. all other "Prophets" are not from God. Nothing will be added to the text or Taken Away. According to Christianity these men are NOT valid prophets.

If the Old Testament is just as valid as the New, why don't most Christians abide by dietry law as prescribed in the Old Testament?

Why don't Christians believe in valid Prophets like Buddha and Muhammad?

The Old Testament is not as valid as the New. Hardly, or else why would there be a "New" Testament. :rolleyes: But "not as valid" doesn't equal "invalid".

Define "believe". I believe they existed and started very good religions, but do I believe that they created me and died for my sins? Hardly.

Sorry but deeds have absolutly nothing to do with being saved- Ephesians 2:8-9 " For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-- and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- not by works, so that no one can boast."
I'm sorry, but that doesn't make much sense. Literally following what's stated there, a psychotic dictator who abuses and kills millions of people but firmly believes in God wouldn't be considered a sinner.

Maybe you misinterpreted the extract (though there are MANY interpretations of the Bible in general, one of the reasons Christianity remains divided to these days). From my point of view, that could be understood like this: by doing works you cannot save your soul by yourself (nobody but God can), but you might redeem yourself *in the eyes of God*, so in turn he decides to save you.

Based on that, let me rephrase what I said about forgiveness. You can reedem yourself, like I said before, in the eyes of God. That is, if you had a sinful past, and if you do considerable good, He would reconsider your salvation. I mean, you cannot save yourself all by yourself (from the extract, "this is not from yourselves") without including God in the equation, but your deeds can help Him reconsider your fate.

Anyway, what kind of Christian are you? I'm Catholic. :)

Wow, seems like I got my work cut out for me here. You guys have been busy since I got off last night. I'll do my best.

How do you reconcile the conflict between these two statements? If God can change his mind, couldn't he add to or contradict the Bible by means of new prophets?

No. God is immutable, meaning that His nature does not change. When I say that He can change His mind, I do not mean to say that God can go against that which is His nature, i.e., His holiness, His mercy, etc. When I say God can change his mind, I refer to places such as in the book of Jonah, where God decided not to destroy the city of Ninevah because of their repentance. I do not mean to say that God would contradict Himself in Scripture. That make sense?

I'm sorry, but that doesn't make much sense. Literally following what's stated there, a psychotic dictator who abuses and kills millions of people but firmly believes in God wouldn't be considered a sinner.

Maybe you misinterpreted the extract (though there are MANY interpretations of the Bible in general, one of the reasons Christianity remains divided to these days). From my point of view, that could be understood like this: by doing works you cannot save your soul by yourself (nobody but God can), but you might redeem yourself *in the eyes of God*, so in turn he decides to save you.

Based on that, let me rephrase what I said about forgiveness. You can reedem yourself, like I said before, in the eyes of God. That is, if you had a sinful past, and if you do considerable good, He would reconsider your salvation. I mean, you cannot save yourself all by yourself (from the extract, "this is not from yourselves") without including God in the equation, but your deeds can help Him reconsider your fate.

Anyway, what kind of Christian are you? I'm Catholic. :)


I think that to go to Heaven all you need is the Forgiveness from God and belief in Jesus Christ. Here are a few verses:

Romans 4:1-3
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

Romans 11:5-6
5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Titus 3:4-6
4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior

Now that's not to say that good works are a choice. If you truly believe in Jesus Christ you should do Good Works. Faith and Works Should go hand in hand. Therefore if you truly believe then you should want to do good works.

James 2:14-26
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

I think that what James is trying to say is what I have been saying Faith in God is Dead or in other words you really don't have faith in God unless you show it.

That's right, so you can show you have faith in God through your good deeds!

That's right, so you can show you have faith in God through your good deeds!

Agreed

Why is jezus the son of god ?

Ive asked this question many times, but the only "answers" ive gotten are: because! and because the bible says so!, neither of these are actual good answers. Anyone can write anything in a book.(we dont beleive that theres a hidden society of wizards simply because JK Rowling says so in her book series afterall.) Just saying because he is isnt even answering my question but just avoiding it.

All this talk of forgivness and going to heaven is all very well...but...Acts 2:34 talks about David (who was agreeable to God) not going to Heaven. Jesus told his followers that John the Baptist would not be found in Heaven (Matt 11:11).

Why is jezus the son of god ?

Ive asked this question many times, but the only "answers" ive gotten are: because! and because the bible says so!, neither of these are actual good answers. Anyone can write anything in a book.(we dont beleive that theres a hidden society of wizards simply because JK Rowling says so in her book series afterall.) Just saying because he is isnt even answering my question but just avoiding it.

I can answer this one!

Colossians 1:15-17 says that Jesus is the first-born of all creation, and in the book of Matthew at Chapter 3, verse 17; when Jesus is being baptized, God calls from Heaven and declares that Jesus is "My Son". John 3:16 uses the expression "...Gave His only begotten Son..."

I can answer this one!

Colossians 1:15-17 says that Jesus is the first-born of all creation, and in the book of Matthew at Chapter 3, verse 17; when Jesus is being baptized, God calls from Heaven and declares that Jesus is "My Son". John 3:16 uses the expression "...Gave His only begotten Son..."

And yet another "because the bible says so" answer....do you beleive Hogwarts is a real school aswell ?

And yet another "because the bible says so" answer....do you beleive Hogwarts is a real school aswell ?

2 Tim 3:16 "All Scripture is inspired of God...", that and my faith are all I need to know.

And yet another "because the bible says so" answer....do you beleive Hogwarts is a real school aswell ?
Comparing the Bible to Harry Potter, nice move... ¬_¬

Here's a similar situation:

President: "Oh, hey, people, I can strip you of your rights and make you my slaves."
People: "But that's against the Constitution!"
President: "So? Do you believe Howgwarts is a real school as well?"

Same situation. The Bible is the cornerstone of our religion as much as the Constitution is the base of any democratic nation.

2 Tim 3:16 "All Scripture is inspired of God...", that and my faith are all I need to know.

For those that believe that the Christ lived, died, was risen and through his ransom washes us of the stain of sin, no explanation is necessary, for those that don't; none will ever suffice.

Comparing the Bible to Harry Potter, nice move... ¬_¬

Here's a similar situation:

President: "Oh, hey, people, I can strip you of your rights and make you my slaves."
People: "But that's against the Constitution!"
President: "So? Do you believe Howgwarts is a real school as well?"


Ive compared ridiculous claims made by books (the divinity of someone and the existance of wizards), you compare a lawbook to a work of fiction, big difference

Same situation. The Bible is the cornerstone of our religion as much as the Constitution is the base of any democratic nation.

A constitution is drafted in one go by a group of people to decide what laws form the basis of society, the bible was written down over a period of several hundred years. See the difference ?

All 3 major world religions have a set of holy texts, they all claim that these texts are the one true word of god, and then they use the texts themselves to prove this. It's impossible to prove a statement by using that statement as evidence.

Ive compared ridiculous claims made by books (the divinity of someone and the existance of wizards), you compare a lawbook to a work of fiction, big difference



A constitution is drafted in one go by a group of people to decide what laws form the basis of society, the bible was written down over a period of several hundred years. See the difference ?

All 3 major world religions have a set of holy texts, they all claim that these texts are the one true word of god, and then they use the texts themselves to prove this. It's impossible to prove a statement by using that statement as evidence.

O.K. The bible can be proved to be accurate, In Isaiah 44:28, God, through the prophet Isaiah foretells of Cyrus and the rebuilding of Jerusalem, this prophecy was written around 732 B.C.E, and it's fulfilment began in 539 B.C.E. Jer. 49:17, 18. God has it recorded by 580 B.C.E. that the Edomites would be driven from Edom. This prophecy was fulfilled in the 2nd Century B.C.E. In 33 C.E. Jesus foretold the Roman destruction of Jerusalem, this was fulfilled in 66 C.E.

For Christians, the Bible is by no means a book of fiction. You believe that, fine, but don't try to convince us with that. I repeat, the Bible is the cornerstone of our religion as much as the Constitution is the base of any democratic nation. Whether it was written in one year of hundreds of years is irrelevant. As for the evidence, as of now, Religion cannot be empirically proved or disproved.

Ive compared ridiculous claims made by books (the divinity of someone and the existance of wizards), you compare a lawbook to a work of fiction, big difference



A constitution is drafted in one go by a group of people to decide what laws form the basis of society, the bible was written down over a period of several hundred years. See the difference ?

All 3 major world religions have a set of holy texts, they all claim that these texts are the one true word of god, and then they use the texts themselves to prove this. It's impossible to prove a statement by using that statement as evidence.

There is also the scientific evidence, less than 700 years ago we believed that the Earth was flat, and that we were at the centre of the universe. The bible in Isaiah 40:22, written by 732 B.C.E, says that "There is one dwelling above the Circle of the Earth, Greek philosophers began to consider the spherical Earth around 200 years later.

O.K. The bible can be proved to be accurate, In Isaiah 44:28, God, through the prophet Isaiah foretells of Cyrus and the rebuilding of Jerusalem, this prophecy was written around 732 B.C.E, and it's fulfilment began in 539 B.C.E. Jer. 49:17, 18. God has it recorded by 580 B.C.E. that the Edomites would be driven from Edom. This prophecy was fulfilled in the 2nd Century B.C.E. In 33 C.E. Jesus foretold the Roman destruction of Jerusalem, this was fulfilled in 66 C.E.

Your talking about events that can be proven by other means then the bible, I'm asking about a claim that is only made in the bible.

So i'll ask again, why is jezus the son of god ? Or better, what makes you beleive this ?
After all, you only have a book and someones (your parents, preachers, etc) word for it.

Your talking about events that can be proven by other means then the bible, I'm asking about a claim that is only made in the bible.

So i'll ask again, why is jezus the son of god ? Or better, what makes you beleive this ?
After all, you only have a book and someones (your parents, preachers, etc) word for it.

I don't believe that Jesus is the son of God, I know he is, I know this because if Jesus wasn't the son of God and died for us, then we may not be here now.

I don't believe that Jesus is the son of God, I know he is, I know this because if Jesus wasn't the son of God and died for us, then we may not be here now.

You know jezus is the son of god because otherwise we might have disapeared ?

That doesnt suport your beleif very much.

You know jezus is the son of god because otherwise we might have disapeared ?

That doesnt suport your beleif very much.

It's a matter of faith, to me it doesn't need support.

1) Deeds have nothing whatsoever to do with it. Faith alone is what saves a person, otherwise the gift of salvation would not be free. Reference Layish's answers.
So Ghandi's in Hell?
And, follwing that, how is YHWH benevolent, if he'd send Ghandi to Hell?


2) The second question is kind of silly, I think. Where does it say He can't affect people in chariots of iron? No offense, I've just never heard that before.
Judges 1:19

So Ghandi's in Hell?
And, follwing that, how is YHWH benevolent, if he'd send Ghandi to Hell?



Judges 1:19




I'll jump in for a bit:


Tell me, do you know every aspect of Ghandi's life? Do you know if he was perfect and free of sin? Was Ghandi not presented with the Word and did he not reject it?

I'll jump in for a bit:


Tell me, do you know every aspect of Ghandi's life? Do you know if he was perfect and free of sin? Was Ghandi not presented with the Word and did he not reject it?

Ghandi once said that if he sat down with his British counterpart and put discussed their differences using bible principles and the teachings of Jesus, he said that not only would they solve their own problems, but all the problems of the world.

Tell me, do you know every aspect of Ghandi's life? Do you know if he was perfect and free of sin? Was Ghandi not presented with the Word and did he not reject it?
Ghandi was a better man than most. He's better than many people, who, according to the poster responded to, went to heaven. Emperor Constantine is a fine example.

There is also the scientific evidence, less than 700 years ago we believed that the Earth was flat, and that we were at the centre of the universe.

Actually, that's not quite correct. While historic religious theologians did indeed put the Earth at the center of the known universe, indeed Jerusalem at the very center, they never for a moment thought that the world was flat and neither did the scientists of antiquity.

Columbus is credited with a discovery that was well known before he was a twinkle in a strapping serf farmer's eye. There is a long tradition of seamanship in mankind's history and any sailor worth his salt knew perfectly good and well that the world was a globe. This was never in doubt, either in science or in religion.

It came about for two reasons. One, many religious "maps" of the day depict the world as flat. It must be remembered, though, that these maps are not attempts to depict an actual world, but instead to serve as pictographs for non-literate worshippers on a spiritual quest. They don't tell you how to get from Portugal to England, but they try to tell you how to get from sin to salvation.

Secondly, in his pseudo-biography of Columbus, printed in 1828, Washington Irving gave birth to the biggest urban legend of all time. In an effort to create dramatic tension, Irving claimed that the religious view of Columbus' era was of a flat earth. Columbus, according to Irving, challenged this view and was thus a hero while the Church was a villain. The truth is that it was all made up for dramatic purposes and, with the popularity of the biography, became something believed by society.

So, there is really no tradition in either religious belief or credible scientific pursuit of a "flat earth".

Actually, that's not quite correct. While historic religious theologians did indeed put the Earth at the center of the known universe, indeed Jerusalem at the very center, they never for a moment thought that the world was flat and neither did the scientists of antiquity.

Columbus is credited with a discovery that was well known before he was a twinkle in a strapping serf farmer's eye. There is a long tradition of seamanship in mankind's history and any sailor worth his salt knew perfectly good and well that the world was a globe. This was never in doubt, either in science or in religion.

It came about for two reasons. One, many religious "maps" of the day depict the world as flat. It must be remembered, though, that these maps are not attempts to depict an actual world, but instead to serve as pictographs for non-literate worshippers on a spiritual quest. They don't tell you how to get from Portugal to England, but they try to tell you how to get from sin to salvation.

Secondly, in his pseudo-biography of Columbus, printed in 1828, Washington Irving gave birth to the biggest urban legend of all time. In an effort to create dramatic tension, Irving claimed that the religious view of Columbus' era was of a flat earth. Columbus, according to Irving, challenged this view and was thus a hero while the Church was a villain. The truth is that it was all made up for dramatic purposes and, with the popularity of the biography, became something believed by society.

So, there is really no tradition in either religious belief or credible scientific pursuit of a "flat earth".

There is still the many accurate prohecies, and archaeological evidence.

Are we inherently evil from birth just because our alleged ancestors, thousands of years removed, ate the wrong apple? With that comes the question: if Adam and Eve were sorry, why weren't they forgiven?

Why does a loving and forgiving God send sinners to eternal hell for the sins they commit over, say, 80 years?

Where do the souls of the righteous who died before the coming of Christ, as well as those of babies who die before baptism, go?

If God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-wise, why does He do things that He later regrets (such as the Flood, etc.)

In the little I read of Genesis, God clearly appeared before people and conversed with them. Why does that no longer happen?

Why was there no attempt to redeem the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah, instead of simply biblical-nuking it?

Why is God in the Old Testament generally vengeful/just, and God in the New Testament is loving and forgiving. Let me rephrase that: somewhere in the Bible it says "God Is Love." Therefore, why does Love force the ultimate punishment on people that can be redeemed? If someone dies, and sees the glory and light of God, as well as the error of their ways, wouldn't they repent, making them eligible for entry into Heaven?

I'm sure everyone can come up with a "few" more...


1. When we are first born, we are perfect. We havn't had the chance to sin yet. However, we do have a constant struggle in us that leads us to do evil things. That is because of our inate selfishness. All sin boils down to this. We want what's good for us, and so we do bad things to get it.

2.Adam and Eve were forgiven. Even though they were removed from the garden, God still provided in many ways for them. We know that he clothed them with garments more suitable than the leaves they attempted to coverthemselves with. He also provided them with the basic knowledge of how to farm and grow plants so they could feed themselves.

They were punished, but that's because they had to be seperated from God. He is perfect and in their imperfection, they had made themselves unclean. He, however, seems to have provided them with instruction on sanctification through sacrafice (and for all eternity the death of an innocent, be it the animals of the Old Testamen or Jesus in the New, is required to obsolve sin. We find this in Cain and Ables sacrafice to God. They felt compelled to do so, so we can assume that either he had instructed them, or had given them the desire to do so.

3. God isn't the one sending you to hell. Let me ask you this. Did God ever "make" you lie to someone? Did he ever "make" you steal something? No. It is our actions that cause us to go to hell. God, out of his desire that "none should parish" has provided us with the most perfect way to enter heaven despite our sin. Our eternall destination isn't up to God, it's up to our choice as to if we will follow him or not.

4. Those who died before the death, and subsiquent resurrection of Christ, are judged according to "God's Rightousness", as is outlined in Revelation. They won't be judeged based on their following of Christianity, as it was unknown to them. However, they will be judged on other criteria that isn't outlined in the Bible. I'll admit, I have not explanation for what this is, but we'll find out someday.

Babies don't have any understanding of right and wrong. The Catholics (and some other branches of Christianity) baptise babies because of the false conception of Original Sin. Christ refutes this when he points out that a lame man isn't lame because of his parents sin, but he is lame because he is lame. We don't inherit the sins of our fathers.

Baptism is for those who make a conciouse effort to turn away from a sinfull lifestyle and acknowledge Christ as their savior. Babies, and children up to a certain point, aren't aware of sin. They are innocent (as Adam and Eve were before eating off of the tree) because of thier lack of knowledge of good and evil. They don't need to be baptised, and are assured heaven.

5. Why does a parent punish their Child and then cry about it when the child isn't around? God doesn't want for us to suffer, but in the case of the flood, there was no hope for the redemption of those who died. God didn't "regret" doing it, he "grieved" (a much more accurate translation of the Hebrew here) it. He felt sorrow over the neccesity of the action.

6. Throughout the Book of Genesis, the "Angel of the Lord" appears to people on the behalf of God. Unfortuantly, in an attempt to vary the speech used in book, many people have translated the same phrase into English in different ways. So at points it says that the "Lord appeared to Abraham" when infact it would be more appropriatly translated the "Angel of the Lord appeared to Abraham." The only accounts of God litterally taking his presence before men are found in the Garden of Eden before Adam and Eve ate from the tree, and while Christ walked the earth as a human. We read in Exodus about God presenting his "glory" to Moses, but that's only because it would be too much for Moses to observe God himself. Even the glimps of the "glory" of God had huge impact on Moses, so that the people of Israel could see it in his face.

6. If you look at the account of Sodom and Gamorrah, the inhabitants were not in anyway righteous. Abraham and God even have an agreement that God will save the city if he can find even ten righteous men. In all of the city there weren't even ten men who were righteous and desired to do good. God provided salvation in the town for the only people who would accept his salvation.

7. It's a common missconception that the God of the Old Testament isn't the same characteristcly speaking as the God of the New Testament. Any time God deals out punishment in the Old Testament, he also provides compassion. If you look at the city of Jericho, before it was destroyed he had a plan to save the only person in the city that would be willing to accept his salvation. Rahab was a prostitute, but because of her help towards the Israelites, she was shown compassion by God, and her entire family was spared the fate of Jericho.

I've already pointed out that God saved Lot from the destruction of Sodom and Gamorrah.

I've gotta go to work, but I'll elaborate on this last one a bit more later.

Ghandi said once that he loved Christ and/or Christ's teachings, but he also said that he would probably be a Christian if it weren't for the Christians he had known. That just shows that Christians are not doing that good of a job of being like Christ. Now whether Ghandi put his faith in Jesus to save him from his sins, (yes, even Ghandi had sinned, no mere human can avoid sin, only Jesus the Son of God did that.) then Ghandi did not go to heaven, but there is also the chance that He did put his faith in Jesus, he just didn't like the Christianity that he saw. Who are we to say? I don't know what he believed when he died. It seems harsh to think of a person like Ghandi who was very like Christ in many ways, might not make it to heaven, but he was still human, and if he was a sinner just like all of us. So if he put his faith in Jesus, then he was saved, if he didn't then he was not saved. Scripture is very clear about this, whether we like it or not.

From what I've seen apologetics has nothing to do with truth or honesty and everything to do with trying to convince non believers that there is rational for faith. Those who make claims that this or that proves the entire Bible to be the words of God appear to me to be dishonest. I've read a few of their works. The Signature of God, Infallible Proofs, Encyclopedia of Bible difficulties, etc. To me the scholarship of apologetics is entirely nonexistent. There isn't even a peer review process in apologetics. You can make any claim about the Bible you want as long as you claim it proves the authenticity of the Bible and no one in the apologetics community is going to critically evaluate it. The Bible codes is a good example.

So whenever some one claims this or that proves the Bible is the word of God seriously look into it as you are likely to find the claim is bogus. One example for you is the famous Isaiah prophecy Isaiah 7:14. If you read all of the Isaiah prophesy in context you will notice it refers to a child that was never recorded in the Bible as being born as the name Emanuel or Imanuel appears only twice in the Bible and never in reference to a child who had been given that name.

Question!

What in the Gospels leads you to believe that the Kingdom of God is a place rather than a state of mind?

You guys say that Hell is, basically, existance without God. By that logic, people who have completely forsaken God in real life should feel like they're in Hell. Somehow, I doubt this is always the case.

Also, why doesn't God make His presence more obvious to us? It's like advertising: if a company never or hardly ever advertises, then the number of people who know it exists is much lower than if they did advertise. You'd think God would do something like this too, if He truly wanted us to believe in Him. As of now, all Christianity (and other religion) has to offer is the word of believers and ancient scripture, neither of which is conclusive in the least. Presently I have not seen, heard, felt, or otherwised experienced one single thing that comes close to confirming God's existance.

You guys say that Hell is, basically, existance without God. By that logic, people who have completely forsaken God in real life should feel like they're in Hell. Somehow, I doubt this is always the case.

Also, why doesn't God make His presence more obvious to us? It's like advertising: if a company never or hardly ever advertises, then the number of people who know it exists is much lower than if they did advertise. You'd think God would do something like this too, if He truly wanted us to believe in Him. As of now, all Christianity (and other religion) has to offer is the word of believers and ancient scripture, neither of which is conclusive in the least. Presently I have not seen, heard, felt, or otherwised experienced one single thing that comes close to confirming God's existance.
This life isn't existence without God, because God created everything and is in everything.

The reason God doesn't make His presence more obvious is so people can convert of their own free will. If people knew with certainty that God existed, they'd convert out of fear and not love. This is something to be avoided.

My two pence.

This life isn't existence without God, because God created everything and is in everything.

The reason God doesn't make His presence more obvious is so people can convert of their own free will. If people knew with certainty that God existed, they'd convert out of fear and not love. This is something to be avoided.

My two pence.Doesn't that tell you something about the nature of the God you condone? That, upon proof of his existence, everyone fears for their lives in his wake?

Doesn't that tell you something about the nature of the God you condone? That, upon proof of his existence, everyone fears for their lives in his wake?
No, it just tells me something about the nature of people. We would fear God's power and convert for our own survival, which is not something that God seems to want.

If God is omnibenevolent, then why does he want us to repress sexuality so much? Wouldn't things like ending poverty and war be much much higher on hs priorities as that would actually improve the lives of millions?

In addition, why does He seem to enjoy us fearing him so much? I have always thought the whole "fear God" thing seemed rather out of place if he is so great. It would be out of character for him to run things based on fear if he were as benevolent as his proponents make him out to be.

If people knew with certainty that God existed, they'd convert out of fear and not love. This is something to be avoided.

Only cowards would do that. If I knew that the Christian God existed, I would never even remotely consider converting.

Only cowards would do that. If I knew that the Christian God existed, I would never even remotely consider converting.

If he were as omnipotent as we are to believe, then he'd see through such an obvious farce rather quickly anyway, don't you think?

If he were as omnipotent as we are to believe, then he'd see through such an obvious farce rather quickly anyway, don't you think?
Sure, but from what I understand the Christian God is really in love with ass-kissers. He would see right through it...and love every second of it.

From what I've seen apologetics has nothing to do with truth or honesty and everything to do with trying to convince non believers that there is rational for faith. Those who make claims that this or that proves the entire Bible to be the words of God appear to me to be dishonest. I've read a few of their works. The Signature of God, Infallible Proofs, Encyclopedia of Bible difficulties, etc. To me the scholarship of apologetics is entirely nonexistent. There isn't even a peer review process in apologetics. You can make any claim about the Bible you want as long as you claim it proves the authenticity of the Bible and no one in the apologetics community is going to critically evaluate it. The Bible codes is a good example.

So whenever some one claims this or that proves the Bible is the word of God seriously look into it as you are likely to find the claim is bogus. One example for you is the famous Isaiah prophecy Isaiah 7:14. If you read all of the Isaiah prophesy in context you will notice it refers to a child that was never recorded in the Bible as being born as the name Emanuel or Imanuel appears only twice in the Bible and never in reference to a child who had been given that name.


morover the claim that the bible is 100% the word of god entirely fale simply becouse it was pened and printed by man! the only true work done by god was the ten commandments (in which i do have faith but of my own choosing becouse i deem them correct thrugh power of choice see *earlyer post to which no reply given)
im sorry but i will not ever subscribe to a faith which preaches tolerance to later slag off or otherwise insult people who choose to in there own mind or ether in text or conversation question a book that had been chopped an changed since the start of the changed timeline (that being the ad and bc point changed by some monk who i care not the name of)
i respect the faith of others so please repay my repect in kind!
*do unto others as you would have done unto you*

Where was god when I cut my finger?

Why does God punish thoughs who prey to him for centuries such as the Ethiopian populace, but leaves me, a dirty religion-hating-homo with the worst punishment being a light shaving burn?

Where does free will reside? Soul or body?

If its the soul then is there free-will in heaven?

And if there IS free will in heaven isnt it possible for sin to occur in the presence of God since freewill gives the potential to commit sin?

So are you just in heaven until you sin then you're cast out?

How does God figure that a single human lifespan is enough to be an accurate judgement on a human souls worthiness to heaven in this case?

Do people become perfect when they enter heaven and become incapable of sin? Wouldnt losing their free will and the essence that christians say seprates mankind from animals make us not human if we enter heaven without the capability of sin and free will? Does that mean that eventually everyone will end up in hell since they'll all be kicked out of heaven? Or is Heaven just a giant sin-fest because they've all proved that they accept jesus so their sins dont matter anymore and they can just ask God directly for forgivness?

Wouldn't Christianity just be so much easier if you dropped the whole heaven and hell thing?

Why does God punish thoughs who prey to him for centuries such as the Ethiopian populace, but leaves me, a dirty religion-hating-homo with the worst punishment being a light shaving burn? Read the book of Job. I don't know?

Read the book of Job. I don't know?

Book of who?

But I'm not going to read it, I wanted an answer, don't call it Q&A if its actually just Q&M (question and meh!)

Book of who?

But I'm not going to read it, I wanted an answer, don't call it Q&A if its actually just Q&M (question and meh!)

Job's a book in the Bible about a guy who believed inGod and had followed God his entire life and then his entire life got screwed up. He lost everything. Anyhow, there's alot more to it than that and when Job's talking to God, God doesn't answer but instead asks him Q's. "Where were you when the Earth was formed?" etc

btw here's my opinion if you want it lol:

The way you live your life (belief in God, praying etc) doesn't influence bad things happening to you. (bear with me I can't get my words straight today). When the temple in Jerusalem collapsed killing several people, what Jesus said was "Do you think they were any more guilty than you?" (someone please correct that, I know it's not quite right). Bad things happen to everyone, but everything will be sorted out at the end of time...

Edit: I don't think that answered you Q... and sorry to post and run but I'm at a library and my time's about to finish... :headbang:

Job's a book in the Bible about a guy who believed inGod and had followed God his entire life and then his entire life got screwed up. He lost everything. Anyhow, there's alot more to it than that and when Job's talking to God, God doesn't answer but instead asks him Q's. "Where were you when the Earth was formed?" etc

btw here's my opinion if you want it lol:

The way you live your life (belief in God, praying etc) doesn't influence bad things happening to you. (bear with me I can't get my words straight today). When the temple in Jerusalem collapsed killing several people, what Jesus said was "Do you think they were any more guilty than you?" (someone please correct that, I know it's not quite right). Bad things happen to everyone, but everything will be sorted out at the end of time...

Edit: I don't think that answered you Q... and sorry to post and run but I'm at a library and my time's about to finish... :headbang:

Wow, Job sounds like he had a really crappy end of time to me. I mean 1 in 63946238904388 people get to talk to God and what does God do? DIDLY SQUAT, it's not Job's fault he wasn't around when God made the first atom or whatever, God has no right to whinge about other people complaining, he knew it was gonna happen! God sounds like a 3 year old who needs to put on the DUNCE hat and have a time out.

[QUOTE=Marcion]1) I have to take issue with the stereotyping of Christianity as a "religion." Christianity is a faith, not a set of rules and regulations. Someone else can expound upon this if they wish, or I can in a different post.
2) Here's the simple truth. Anyone who rejects Jesus Christ's substitutionary death on the cross is going to hell. I don't care if they are Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, Baptist, Methodist, Pentacostal, Catholic, atheist, pagan, New Age, etc., if they do not believe that Jesus died for their sins, was buried, and rose again three days later, and that he is the only way to heaven, is lost in their sins.
How about the scripture, Every head will bow, every tongue will confess Jesus is Lord? I would deduct therefore everyone will get a chance, because who could say no to His face? Also, if Muslims are Abraham's seed as well, and God said He would indeed bless them as a nation, would He not reveal Himself to them as well? Also, we are the branches and the Jews are the root. If they die, we wither. In the end we will all be restored to the original plan. I DO NOT believe Jews are going to anywhere but into Jesus' arms when they see Him for who he really is. That is, when He returns and they see it was Him all along.

Ok, here's a question. If God truly loves all of his children.........why send non-believers to Hell? I mean, maybe I'm just fucked up in my line of thought, but to me, if you love someone, you want them to be happy, whether you're in their lives or not. It seems to me that if God truly loved all of us, he wouldn't care what we believed in (or didn't believe in), as long as that belief system worked for us as individuals, and made us happy. I mean, to basically punish your children for not believing in you..........isn't that kind of selfish and egotistical?

On a side note, I have some friends who basically act like their father never existed (he doesn't live with them anymore, they never talk to him or about him). In these cases, their dad treated them like shit. Usually, if someone denies their father, it's with good reason. So, therefore, if someone denies God's exsistence, why is it they who should be punished? Instead, maybe God should be questioning if he did anything to make so many people stop believing in him. I mean, seems to me like if he truly loved us, that's what he'd try to do.

Also, I've heard a few religious people say that Muslims, Jews, etc., can go to Heaven, if they accept Jesus as the one and only lord and savior. But, if they do this, don't they then cease to be Muslim or Jewish? Why would God be that judgemental? Didn't Jesus say "Judge not lest ye be judged"? Wouldn't this make him a hypocrite?

I know people have already said things like "Well, he gives you a choice, you don't have to believe in him". To which I ask this question, if you believe there is no God, believe it in your heart, and believe that it's right, why should you be punished for that?

And someone called God a jealous God. If God is perfect, how can he be jealous? Isn't jealousy a bad thing?

Why would God make us for the sole purpose of us worshipping him? Doesn't that imply some underlying ego issues, as well as a bit of narcissism, on God's part?

Hello. I am a born-again Christian and a rational thinker (for all of you out there who do not believe that those two can coexist). This is intended as a thread where you can post the questions you've always had but never found anyone to ask and/or never got a straight answer to. I will do my best to answer them thoroughly and completely. All I ask is that you be open-minded and willing to listen to whatever it is I respond with. (In other words, rational, reasonable questions and rebuttals, and no ad hominine arguments).

Ask away!
Well, welcome to NS.
I don't envy you but i will say you must have some cajones of some sort to attempt this.
I'll flip through here in a little while and see how it goes.

Also, I've heard a few religious people say that Muslims, Jews, etc., can go to Heaven, if they accept Jesus as the one and only lord and savior. But, if they do this, don't they then cease to be Muslim or Jewish? Why would God be that judgemental? Didn't Jesus say "Judge not lest ye be judged"? Wouldn't this make him a hypocrite?[/QUOTE]

There is another line of thinking on this topic, that Jesus, Moses, Muhammed and others are really the same spirit returned. Their physical shape, of course, is different but their message is essentially the same. All of the other revealed religions from ages so far in the past the Founders name is lost to history would also be connected by the same spirit, the same essential message with a final culmination the Promised One of all Ages. The Voice of God on earth that unites all religions, that restores the many langugues that seperated after the Tower of Babel into one voice.