NationStates Jolt Archive

3) You have to believe that the same overpaid public school idiot who can't teach 4th graders how to read is qualified to teach those same kids about sex.

I saw this in a different thread, and I'd just like to branch off a bit. Please ignore the rest of the quote about sex-ed, as my sentiments have nothing to do with it.

I'm tired of people ripping on public school teachers. This isn't the only thread where I've seen it. Everyone's bitching that they're overpaid, that they're unqualified, that they're unions are too strong etc.

As the son of a teacher whos been practicing for more than 20 years I can tell you right now that this is all crap. Teachers are FAR from overpaid. I'm not at liberty to tell you our yearly income, but let me tell you, we ain't driving a new Porche. As for being unqualified: my mother has two masters degrees, and has taught from kindergarten to high-school. I'd call that qualified.

And the unions? Don't make me keel over. Everyone's saying that they're too strong, that teachers can do whatever the hell they want after tenure. First of all, with all the stories I've heard from my mom, her friends, and other teachers and staff, I can tell you the unions' are strong for a reason. The teachers are almost always the first to get pay cuts when times are bad, and the administration can pretty much do anything to a teacher before tenure, even fire them for not wearing a pink tie when told to do so. It just happened recently when a new band teacher was "dismissed" because his students liked him too much. Principals and superintendants have almost unlimited control over the teachers until they come together at which point thier voices start to get heard. They NEED these unions. And as for letting teachers get away with anything after tenure...wrong. They can be removed from union protection if they do anything stupid and can be diciplined by the administration if there is sufficient evidence that they haven't been doing their job appropriately. This is what we call a "balance".

You may think I'm just a mama's boy for sticking up for my mother, or that I'm just some over-educated dork. I don't care. Teachers are among the most underpaid and underappriciated people in the workforce today. It pains me enough to see celebrities getting fat and happy over nothing, I will not see these hard-working individuals being insulted.

Thank you.

I tend to agree; the problem with schools is that they are loaded with bureaucrats and administrative staff who do nothing and are paid handsomely. We would save billions in tax dollars and increase education quality if it was mandated by law that 65% of the budget go to teachers' salaries and infrastructure/supplies.

However, there are cases where the unions are too strong and the teachers are overpaid, so I can't agree 100% on that. The town of Nanticoke, Pennsylvania is notorious for this problem, and quality is suffering. This isn't a universal problem, but I feel that the teachers shouldn't be forced to be part of the union and there should be separate unions for different teaching professions.

I think teachers are, ultimately, blamed when it isn't their fault but rather the wasteful bureaucracy that does nothing and wastes time while stifiling change. They make do and try to do the best they can, but too often the system is working against them.

I agree. My mother is a teacher too and the only real advantage she gets is good vacation time. That's it. If it weren't for the vacation time, most teachers would probably leave because teaching is high on stress and low on pay. Consider not only having to deal with terrible students, but the even worse parents who produce such children.

I think teachers are, ultimately, blamed when it isn't their fault but rather the wasteful bureaucracy that does nothing and wastes time while stifiling change. They make do and try to do the best they can, but too often the system is working against them.

Also, blame the parents when they do not push their children to want to succeed, and who see any failure in their child as a failure of the teacher. Not that teachers are all perfect but oppressed, just that not everything that goes wrong in a classroom is the teacher's fault.

I agree. My mother is a teacher too and the only real advantage she gets is good vacation time. That's it. If it weren't for the vacation time, most teachers would probably leave because teaching is high on stress and low on pay. Consider not only having to deal with terrible students, but the even worse parents who produce such children.

I've heard stories about parents. They're worse than the administration.

"Why isn't Timmy getting special treatment?"

"You're not supposed to teach him that!"

"What are you going to do about school violence? Can you defend yourself against an armed assailant?"

"My little Mary is smarter than these kids! I want her taught seperately!"

"It's not my fault that my kid has ADHD and the principal wont provide an overseer!"

"I have some ideas that will make your classroom better!"

"Joey didn't know the 'f-word" when he left home today!"

"My daughter is a mess! Do you CLEAN your classroom!"

...Idiots...

I agree Bolol, teachers take waaaay to much crap. A member of my family is a primary school teacher in a small village outside our city. I don't really remember the actual incident, but for some reason, this relative of mine laid hands on one of the kids (probably about 6) to stop them from doing whatever they were doing (I think it was a fight). Kid goes home, tells parents, and next week the family is spreading stories around the village about said relative. Did they have enough courtesy to ask them if it was true, or even go to the headmistress? B*llocks did they.
Parents are stupid.
But not as stupid as the LEA (Local Educational Authority).

Hm... as someone that taught little children to do homework after school in a troubled district, I'd like to say that it takes a DAMN lot of patience to get one or two kids to behave properly, no matter how much is on your pay check. And that's just one or two.

...Idiots...
They say the hardest part of educating children is educating the parents :D

I agree with Bolol. If you feel you can do a better job, homeschool your kids. Otherwise stop complaining.

I agree Bolol, teachers take waaaay to much crap. A member of my family is a primary school teacher in a small village outside our city. I don't really remember the actual incident, but for some reason, this relative of mine laid hands on one of the kids (probably about 6) to stop them from doing whatever they were doing (I think it was a fight). Kid goes home, tells parents, and next week the family is spreading stories around the village about said relative. Did they have enough courtesy to ask them if it was true, or even go to the headmistress?

That's another problem: violent kids. My mother, being among the most experienced teachers in the district gets saddled with alot of the special needs kids, among them several kids with a history of hostility. Hell, one of them strangled his own cat. And in almost all cases, the parents do nothing about it until someone complains, THEN they bring the kid to a doctor.

How are the teachers supposed to respond to a violent 7 year old? Thankfully at the district my mom teaches at they provide information on how to safely subdue a violent child. However, it's only a matter of time before some kid attacks another and when the teacher takes the appropriate action, she gets sued, dispite the fact that the parents knew the kid was dangerous but did nothing about it.

There are alot of shit teachers I suppose not more than any other profession but they're looking after our kid's future and until something is actually done about them parents are gunna keep complaining.

There are alot of shit teachers I suppose not more than any other profession but they're looking after our kid's future and until something is actually done about them parents are gunna keep complaining.

And they also complain about the good ones.

There are alot of shit teachers I suppose not more than any other profession but they're looking after our kid's future and until something is actually done about them parents are gunna keep complaining.

Trust me, in many cases it due to budget cuts and stupidity on the part of the administration, who don't know the first Jack about how to teach a child.

You can't blame a teacher if (s)he's overworked and can't provide half the class with textbooks.

if your american then I agree with you entirely

if your british then I dissagree with you entirely

(in britain public schools are private schools (its slightly odd))

there are problems with teachers being underqualified (either in the subjects they are teaching or as teachers) here in britain this is because you can become a teacher by either having a degree in the subject you are teaching (i.e. biology, french etc etc) and then a PGCE (GCE stands for General Certificate of Education I'm not sure what P stands for) which is training for teachers, or they can do a degree in teaching.

The PGCE teachers don't have enough experience of hands on teaching experience and also very little theory (its like 2 weeks of the school year) and often go into teaching as they have low degrees and can't go on to industry or university teaching

The Education Degree teachers don't have specific knoledge of a subject to the same level as the PGCE teachers but have more theory and practical experience.

This means that we often have newly qualified teachers that flake out

but they are really badly paid for the job they do

especially with all the crap they have to put up now in this country

There are alot of shit teachers I suppose not more than any other profession but they're looking after our kid's future and until something is actually done about them parents are gunna keep complaining.

Parents are going to keep complaining no matter what you do. It's like, say you have a hurricane. School gets cancelled for awhile right? Well, then the parents complain that their children are missing too much school. However, if they HAD opened the school soon after the storm, the parents would accuse the schools of endangering their children.

if your american then I agree with you entirely

if your british then I dissagree with you entirely

(in britain public schools are private schools (its slightly odd))

there are problems with teachers being underqualified (either in the subjects they are teaching or as teachers) here in britain this is because you can become a teacher by either having a degree in the subject you are teaching (i.e. biology, french etc etc) and then a PGCE (GCE stands for General Certificate of Education I'm not sure what P stands for) which is training for teachers, or they can do a degree in teaching.

The PGCE teachers don't have enough experience of hands on teaching experience and also very little theory (its like 2 weeks of the school year) and often go into teaching as they have low degrees and can't go on to industry or university teaching

The Education Degree teachers don't have specific knoledge of a subject to the same level as the PGCE teachers but have more theory and practical experience.

This means that we often have newly qualified teachers that flake out

but they are really badly paid for the job they do

especially with all the crap they have to put up now in this country

I'm American, so the situation is a little different over here.

But...thanks for the crash course on the British Education System! :p

That's another problem: violent kids. My mother, being among the most experienced teachers in the district gets saddled with alot of the special needs kids, among them several kids with a history of hostility. Hell, one of them strangled his own cat. And in almost all cases, the parents do nothing about it until someone complains, THEN they bring the kid to a doctor.

How are the teachers supposed to respond to a violent 7 year old? Thankfully at the district my mom teaches at they provide information on how to safely subdue a violent child. However, it's only a matter of time before some kid attacks another and when the teacher takes the appropriate action, she gets sued, dispite the fact that the parents knew the kid was dangerous but did nothing about it.
True. Just to clear up though, this fight was just one of those little
"He won't give me my ball back"
"He told me to do it"
Waaaa!
things. (Again, IIRC)
For the most part the kids are all right, though. It's in the inner cities that most of the trouble starts. And it's parents as well as kids. Another relative, who is a social worker, has been heard to mutter about compulsory sterilisation (and not entirely in jest :eek: ).

EDIT: I'm a Brit BTW
*runs to fill in location field*

Probably the greatest men I have known where my high school teachers, namely my Latin and World History teachers.

Some teachers can be assholes, but some can be very wise as well.

i have mixed feelings on this. i must say that the sweeping majority of my teachers in high school have done well enough and a few even deserve to have their paychecks tripled or something of that nature. on the other hand, my teacher for accelerated (meaning high school) math was an older fellow with white hair. we were lucky to hear the man speak 30 words in an 80 minute class period. if you don't understand something being 'taught' he said to come in after school to do some extra problems. this would be fine if the guy would actually help you do those extra problems. my average, and the averages of all of my class dropped between about 10 and 20% that year. the following year i got a real teacher and my grades mostly recovered. this man was protected by tenure. my mom also has a year's worth of horror stories as a teacher's assistant who got stuck working with a tenured teacher in a special ed room. this 'teacher' seldom planned lessons and cost these already slow kids a year of education. so while tenure is a great thing for a teacher who does his or her job, especially one who isnt liked by students, there needs to be a way to fire a tenured teacher outright. in that light, the unions are both too weak and too strong.

What Teachers Make, or
You can always go to law school if things don't work out
By Taylor Mali
www.taylormali.com

He says the problem with teachers is, "What's a kid going to learn
from someone who decided his best option in life was to become a teacher?"
He reminds the other dinner guests that it's true what they say about
teachers:
Those who can, do; those who can't, teach.

I decide to bite my tongue instead of his
and resist the temptation to remind the dinner guests
that it's also true what they say about lawyers.

Because we're eating, after all, and this is polite company.

"I mean, you¹re a teacher, Taylor," he says.
"Be honest. What do you make?"

And I wish he hadn't done that
(asked me to be honest)
because, you see, I have a policy
about honesty and ass-kicking:
if you ask for it, I have to let you have it.

You want to know what I make?

I make kids work harder than they ever thought they could.
I can make a C+ feel like a Congressional medal of honor
and an A- feel like a slap in the face.
How dare you waste my time with anything less than your very best.

I make kids sit through 40 minutes of study hall
in absolute silence. No, you may not work in groups.
No, you may not ask a question.
Why won't I let you get a drink of water?
Because you're not thirsty, you're bored, that's why.

I make parents tremble in fear when I call home:
I hope I haven't called at a bad time,
I just wanted to talk to you about something Billy said today.
Billy said, "Leave the kid alone. I still cry sometimes, don't you?"
And it was the noblest act of courage I have ever seen.

I make parents see their children for who they are
and what they can be.

You want to know what I make?

I make kids wonder,
I make them question.
I make them criticize.
I make them apologize and mean it.
I make them write.
I make them read, read, read.
I make them spell definitely beautiful, definitely beautiful, definitely
beautiful
over and over and over again until they will never misspell
either one of those words again.
I make them show all their work in math.
And hide it on their final drafts in English.
I make them understand that if you got this (brains)
then you follow this (heart) and if someone ever tries to judge you
by what you make, you give them this (the finger).

Let me break it down for you, so you know what I say is true:
I make a goddamn difference! What about you?

English Humour:
That was very very well said.

What Teachers Make, or
You can always go to law school if things don't work out
By Taylor Mali
www.taylormali.com

He says the problem with teachers is, "What's a kid going to learn
from someone who decided his best option in life was to become a teacher?"
He reminds the other dinner guests that it's true what they say about
teachers:
Those who can, do; those who can't, teach.

I decide to bite my tongue instead of his
and resist the temptation to remind the dinner guests
that it's also true what they say about lawyers.

Because we're eating, after all, and this is polite company.

"I mean, you¹re a teacher, Taylor," he says.
"Be honest. What do you make?"

And I wish he hadn't done that
(asked me to be honest)
because, you see, I have a policy
about honesty and ass-kicking:
if you ask for it, I have to let you have it.

You want to know what I make?

I make kids work harder than they ever thought they could.
I can make a C+ feel like a Congressional medal of honor
and an A- feel like a slap in the face.
How dare you waste my time with anything less than your very best.

I make kids sit through 40 minutes of study hall
in absolute silence. No, you may not work in groups.
No, you may not ask a question.
Why won't I let you get a drink of water?
Because you're not thirsty, you're bored, that's why.

I make parents tremble in fear when I call home:
I hope I haven't called at a bad time,
I just wanted to talk to you about something Billy said today.
Billy said, "Leave the kid alone. I still cry sometimes, don't you?"
And it was the noblest act of courage I have ever seen.

I make parents see their children for who they are
and what they can be.

You want to know what I make?

I make kids wonder,
I make them question.
I make them criticize.
I make them apologize and mean it.
I make them write.
I make them read, read, read.
I make them spell definitely beautiful, definitely beautiful, definitely
beautiful
over and over and over again until they will never misspell
either one of those words again.
I make them show all their work in math.
And hide it on their final drafts in English.
I make them understand that if you got this (brains)
then you follow this (heart) and if someone ever tries to judge you
by what you make, you give them this (the finger).

Let me break it down for you, so you know what I say is true:
I make a goddamn difference! What about you?

That was beautiful man...

That was beautiful man...

Agreed. Outstanding.

Taylor Mali makes some good stuff, I just checked out his site.

Kudos!

I take my hat off to all teachers. Not only do they suffer crappy pay and pretty demanding hours (if you include all the stuff they have to prepare and mark when they are not teaching) but they also have to work in an environment where they are constantly reminded of that playground hierarchy, that whole society of kids trying to fit in so desparately and all to often having the s**t kicked out of them for turning up to class with the wrong style hair after trying that little too hard. No, it would all be too much. And that is without even mentioning those pubesent hormones which frankly shouldn't be allowed to run riot for so many years.
Yes teachers have my full support, back them all the way that way I may never have to step inside a classroom full of teenagers again!! :cool:

I wouldn't have made it to university without teachers who spent their own free time giving me extra coaching and help to prepare for exams, interviews, and the application process. Certainly there are some teachers who are not the best, but I found the majority to be truly wonderful and dedicated people who deserve a huge raise, along with a proper dose of respect!

Teachers are definitely not one of the hightest paid professions!! Although that's getting better here. Average wage is about AUD$10G above the national average income.

And underqualified??? I've been studying for 4.5years to become a teacher, and that's just a bachelor's degree!! I must admit it's a double... my other degree gives me more insight into one of my teaching areas (linguistics for my teaching area of English). In Qld, Aust., we have to study the content of two subject areas -- and have 100 days professional practice in them before we graduate in order to meet registration requirements. I also have to be reach a particular proficiency in my foreign language in order to be allowed to teach it. And there's a suitability interview after which you're given a number (S1 being best, S3 not so good and it goes on from there)...

The only thing that really bugs me about being a teacher is that there's not much we can really do to discipline kids except give them detention, or send them to a higher power who then gives them detention. Unless what they did was really bad. But at least if the kid does do something pretty awful, then the school will act. My brother is teaching in London, and he had a kid push him down a flight of stairs and start beating on him. He was the one that had to leave the school, because the school didn't want the fuss from the parents and lose whatever funding they get for the kid.


Argh, anyway. You guys mostly agree that teaching is worthwhile, so there's not much point complaining to you!!

But, it's done.

Wait, seriously? There are people who think that teachers are overpaid? Seriously? What the hell?

Is spending a 50 minute period trying to keep a kid from killing himself
Is getting a paper from a student who never really speaks, but who has said in writing how she now wants to learn more due to you.
Is spending hours on a lesson plan to have it ignored by the students.
Is spending 5 minutes on an opening and having it transform into one of the most rewarding classes of your life.
Is too many damn meetings about broken equipment and failed students.
Is standing behind the child you helped excel as they are congradulted by the administration for taking the prefectural speech contest.
Is having a student insult you to your face and not being able to do anything beyond smiling grimly and keep going.
Is having that same student run up to you after school excited as all hell to see you.
Is having classes ignore your presence, even if you scream yourself horse.
Is having classes so excited that kids are litterally dancing in their seats to answer the questions.
Is having students make no effort to communicate with you.
Is having students work through a major language barrier to talk with you.
Is writing on the blackboard telling you to die.
Is notes shyly passed to you telling you how they want to talk to you.
Is the pain of watching a student fail, knowing you didn't do enough.
Is the joy of watching students fly, knowing you just helped and that they flew on their own.
Is crying after saying goodbye every year when the class graduates and is no longer a part of the school.
Is crying after saying hello to the new class.
Is the strange situations that kids get themselves into, some happy, some tragic.
Is forgetting your own name because every keeps calling you Mr. or Ms. (Or sensei in my case).
Is hoping the students grow up.
Is watching them grow and change.
Is praying for summer and winter break to get away from these kids.
Is knowing two days into said break that the school is too quiet and praying for their return.
Is compleating 7 years of education, knowing about my subject matter, human development and learning, classroom management and teaching techniques, school laws and codes, having both a BA and MS, and making just under $36,000 a year, higher than what I would make in America.
Is not really caring as everyday I look forward to coming to school and hearing an excited, "SENSEI! GOODO MORNINGU!"

All teachers are nuts, that's why we're teachers. ;)

I'm tired of people ripping on public school teachers. This isn't the only thread where I've seen it. Everyone's bitching that they're overpaid, that they're unqualified, that they're unions are too strong etc.

That's because, generally, they're overpaid, they're unqualified, their unions are too strong, etc.

As the son of a teacher whos been practicing for more than 20 years I can tell you right now that this is all crap. Teachers are FAR from overpaid. I'm not at liberty to tell you our yearly income, but let me tell you, we ain't driving a new Porche.

Because you're stuck driving the used porsche? The average tenured teacher in my school district earns $81,000 a year--$27,000 more than the median HOUSEHOLD income. Not bad for 9 months of work a year.

But in fairness, I have no doubt that the teachers in some school districts are underpaid. I'm just telling you why I rip on OUR teachers :)

As for being unqualified: my mother has two masters degrees, and has taught from kindergarten to high-school. I'd call that qualified.

She may well be. Our teachers scarcely speak English. They might be able to convince me they're qualified if they were capable of communicating to me without a translator.

And the unions? Don't make me keel over. Everyone's saying that they're too strong, that teachers can do whatever the hell they want after tenure. First of all, with all the stories I've heard from my mom, her friends, and other teachers and staff, I can tell you the unions' are strong for a reason.

Yeah, they're strong because they have a lot of money because their teachers are overpaid. Teachers enjoy a fantasy world where after two years of work, or whatever it is in your jurisdiction, they are guaranteed lifetime employment. I can't be sympathetic with that.

The teachers are almost always the first to get pay cuts when times are bad,

I dispute this. Although, they're definitely the LOUDEST when they get pay cuts.


and the administration can pretty much do anything to a teacher before tenure, even fire them for not wearing a pink tie when told to do so.

And after tenure, they pretty much have to rape a student on stage at an assembly meeting to get disciplined.

Fantasy teacherland: We can get fired for the slightest thing until we're tenured!

Real world: We can get fired at any time without notice until the day we retire!

Can you see why I'm not sympathetic?



It just happened recently when a new band teacher was "dismissed" because his students liked him too much.

That totally sucks and I'm sympathetic to the dismissed band teacher.

However, I can't imagine how it is that you're under the impression that this sort of petty crap doesn't go on in other work environments.

Principals and superintendants have almost unlimited control over the teachers until they come together at which point thier voices start to get heard.

Well, that's kind of what it is to be an employee...

They NEED these unions.

...to get their way and exploit the system. True.

And as for letting teachers get away with anything after tenure...wrong. They can be removed from union protection if they do anything stupid and can be diciplined by the administration if there is sufficient evidence that they haven't been doing their job appropriately. This is what we call a "balance".

I don't perceive dismissal of a tenured teacher as anything but virtually impossible, but in fairness to the argument, I do recognize that union protection is not absolute.


You may think I'm just a mama's boy for sticking up for my mother,

Not at all; you've had a good long look at things from that side of things. Your information is valid.

or that I'm just some over-educated dork.

I'm not sure why someone would think you're overeducated...

I don't care. Teachers are among the most underpaid and underappriciated people in the workforce today.

I totally dispute this. In my opinion, teachers are overappreciated, by folks such as yourself.


It pains me enough to see celebrities getting fat and happy over nothing,

I'll agree with you there; celebrities are worthless. At least teachers are trying to help people.

I will not see these hard-working individuals being insulted.

well...

Thank you.

You're welcome.

I'm a teacher (music) ... and all I really have to say is ...

Overpaid?!?!?!?!

Did I miss a union meeting or something? The day I start making as much money as the quarterback for the NY Jets, *then* I'll believe I'm overpaid.

Until then, me and my 32.5k per year laughs at the jack-ass who thinks I'm overpaid.

80k a year? Where the hell do you live Brians Test? Teachers who hold doctorates where I live don't make that much.

Until then, me and my 32.5k per year laughs at the jack-ass who thinks I'm overpaid.

Ouch...in what country/province/state do you teach school, and for how long have you taught? Here's hoping you get a raise to a salary that actually is commensurate with what you do :fluffle:

It really angers me that people continually attack teachers and then expect them to work miracles when they are underpaid, underappreciated, and overrestricted. In my high school a teacher couldnt even punish a kid by giving him/her extra homework or even detention without the parents throwing a royal fit.

Ouch...in what country/province/state do you teach school, and for how long have you taught? Here's hoping you get a raise to a salary that actually is commensurate with what you do :fluffle:


Texas ... been teaching for only 3 years. Probably won't get an increase for a couple of years. I could get bonuses for working at inner city schools and such, but that's not where I live. The commute (at $2.75 per gallon) would break me.

Hell ... 32.5k a year and I have to raise my own kids on that!

I still am shaking my head about it .... overpaid ... oh, sure, maybe if I were living in some third world shithole in the ass-crack of the world, I'd be getting a King's ransom ... but here, in Texas, it's about enough to get by and save a little here and there.

Wow, we'd better find out where this alleged district in the US is where the teachers make 81K a year, and get you a job there.
If you are interested, you can make at least double actually teaching abroad, a friend of mine who just graduated is now teaching Biology in Dubai and making 62K US a year, tax-free, at a private American school, plus she was provided with an apartment. Some places thankfully actually appreciate teachers...

Have you ever been involved in teaching?

My mom is a high school English teacher. I like to joke with her that her job consists of just bossing people around, but she works hard. She'll be up past midnight on the computer writing a test for the next day, and gets up at 5 every morning. She spends her weekends grading papers. Every day she teaches 5 classes, as well as after school SAT classes. School ends at 2, but she's often there until 4. When it ended in June she was off for a week, and then went straight into summer school (her class had 5 with ADD, 4 on drugs constantly, 3 with narcolepsy, 2 with dyslexia, and this was in a group of only 8 kids!). That ended, another week off, and then she started doing prep for the coming year.

You tell me that's not earning your money.

I'm not going to give her exact salary, but even now after tenure and years of teaching it's only in the mid 30 thousands per year. She drives an 8 year old used Volvo.
Because you're stuck driving the used porsche? The average tenured teacher in my school district earns $81,000 a year--$27,000 more than the median HOUSEHOLD income. Not bad for 9 months of work a year.
Where the fuck do you live, and who came up with that statistic? As any good stat teacher will tell you, there's lies, damn lies, and statistics.

That's because, generally, they're overpaid, they're unqualified, their unions are too strong, etc.
We are? When did THIS happen? And how is having at least a 4 year degree considered under qualified?

Because you're stuck driving the used porsche? The average tenured teacher in my school district earns $81,000 a year--$27,000 more than the median HOUSEHOLD income. Not bad for 9 months of work a year.

But in fairness, I have no doubt that the teachers in some school districts are underpaid. I'm just telling you why I rip on OUR teachers :)
Naw, you're thinking of the STUDENTS. TEACHERS drive clunkers. I wish I lived in your district, if I stayed at home, my MS would earn me $32,000 a year. If I worked hard and didn't move around, I'd retire making $65,000, after 40 years of work of course. The national average is $46,000, with decades of experance. The STARTING salary is $29,000. How much do you make?

Oh, and we do not work for 9 months. It would be nice if we did, but that's not the way it works at all.


Yeah, they're strong because they have a lot of money because their teachers are overpaid. Teachers enjoy a fantasy world where after two years of work, or whatever it is in your jurisdiction, they are guaranteed lifetime employment. I can't be sympathetic with that.
We get tenure and headaches. You get money. Seems like a nice trade off to me. We also have to deal with your kids.

I dispute this. Although, they're definitely the LOUDEST when they get pay cuts.
In California, the goverment used denying teachers a salary raise to balance the budget. They never paid it back.

And after tenure, they pretty much have to rape a student on stage at an assembly meeting to get disciplined.

Fantasy teacherland: We can get fired for the slightest thing until we're tenured!

Real world: We can get fired at any time without notice until the day we retire!
Were that so, but I think you have been misinformed about tenure and what it actually means. I run into that a lot.

I totally dispute this. In my opinion, teachers are overappreciated, by folks such as yourself.
You're just annoyed that no one loves lawyers. :D

That's because, generally, they're overpaid, they're unqualified, their unions are too strong, etc.



Because you're stuck driving the used porsche? The average tenured teacher in my school district earns $81,000 a year--$27,000 more than the median HOUSEHOLD income. Not bad for 9 months of work a year.

But in fairness, I have no doubt that the teachers in some school districts are underpaid. I'm just telling you why I rip on OUR teachers :)

Take a look at what BEGINNING teachers are paid. "Average tenured" is pretty misleading if the average age of all teachers in the district is 50-something. How many of these teachers have advanced degrees? That would give them the same number of years of higher education as a lawyer. Does anyone complain that 50-something year old lawyers make $81,000 in a year?



And after tenure, they pretty much have to rape a student on stage at an assembly meeting to get disciplined.

Umm...uncalled for. Principals must document bad work/bad behavior just like other professions.

Fantasy teacherland: We can get fired for the slightest thing until we're tenured!
Real world: We can get fired at any time without notice until the day we retire!
Can you see why I'm not sympathetic?

Real School: "We need you to come in before school starts to do training." "We need you to stay late every week for staff meetings."

Does this happen in other professions? YES. Is it unfair to ask of workers? YES. Teacher unions just happen to challenge these unprofessional requests made by administration. Unions enforce fair working conditions, bargain collectively for teachers in a district, and provide protection for whistle blowers to name just a few.

However, I can't imagine how it is that you're under the impression that this sort of petty crap doesn't go on in other work environments.

So why don't they unionize, too?! Maybe you're envious?

Well, that's kind of what it is to be an employee...

Should it be?


I totally dispute this. In my opinion, teachers are overappreciated, by folks such as yourself.

I think sports stars, pop stars, and actors are over appreciated by folks such as yourself.


You're welcome.

Opinions?

Opinions?I want to know if he's ever experienced how hard it is to teach a kid something. I'm not a teacher, but I've taught canoeing in summer camp and I did homework help in a social institution for a year and I'd like to know if he's had any experience just how hard it is to get a message accross to a small group of children...
(Because, honestly, he sounds like he doesn't)