NationStates Jolt Archive

Do you live in a country or territory that bans prostitution? Do you think it should be treated as any other legitimate activity? Or it should never be made legal because a human body is not as any other commodity item?

Yep, ppl have the right to do whatever they want to themselves as long as it doesn't affect others-

Forced prostitution is another matter entirely

But the right remains that if someone wants to pay for sex they should be allowed to.

The idea that the human body should not be used as a commodity can be applied to illegalize the sale of any service. Conservatives should just say what they mean on this matter, that sex should be about love and love should not be allowed to be sold. I actually agree with them on the first bit, as for the second part I don't think it is even possible to sell love. I don't think we need to have the government in people's bedrooms though. If people want to just have animal instictive sex with no love attached, they really aren't hurting anyone else.

Do you live in a country or territory that bans prostitution? Do you think it should be treated as any other legitimate activity? Or it should never be made legal because a human body is not as any other commodity item?I live in a country, where, in a couple weeks, depending on the elections, the wonderful achievements we have made with legalized prostitution might well be undone. :(

prostitution should be legal. to quote george carlin: "Selling is legal, fu**ing is legal, why isn't selling fu**ing legal?!"

Yep, ppl have the right to do whatever they want to themselves as long as it doesn't affect others-

Forced prostitution is another matter entirely

But the right remains that if someone wants to pay for sex they should be allowed to.This is something that legalizing prostitution combats. By ensuring that you can legally run a brothel, you can create a legal competition to those that force prostitution. If you ban it, its mainly the forced ones that will be around...

It should be legal, and safe. And voluntary.

I tihnk that prostitution should be legal because:

*it would protect prostitutes from abuse at the hands of pimps

*it would protect prostitutes from the ravages of STDs and drug addiction

*it would reduce the power of gangsters

*prostitution always has existed, and it isn't going away

I believe it should be legalized but prostitutes should be required to be tested on a regular basis for STDs. On the other hand, if people have sex with prostitutes who aren't registered and tested and they get an STD, then they kind of deserve it for being so careless...especially if laws require prostitutes to get tested, then people who are careless take their lives in their own hands.

I have no morality issues with it; for me, it's a civil rights issue and a personal decision.

Legalise it, regulate it and tax it.

Same with weed. The Dutch have the right idea.

It should be legal, and safe. And voluntary.
Agreed

I tihnk that prostitution should be legal because:

*it would protect prostitutes from abuse at the hands of pimps

*it would protect prostitutes from the ravages of STDs and drug addiction

*it would reduce the power of gangsters

*prostitution always has existed, and it isn't going away

Agreed. Completely.

Has anyone disagreed yet?

It's legal here now, and has been for a year or so.

Predictably, christian groups pissed and moaned about it when it happened, but since then everyone has forgotten about it. Obviously it wasn't that bigger deal if no one outside of the industry cares anymore, but it meant a great deal to those involved.


legalisation=good.

I live in a country where prostitution is legal. Buying sex and profiting off of a prostitute, by being a "pimp" or "madam," is illegal though. It didn't used to be, but half a decade or so ago the feminist left and the right joined forces and gave us this stupidity. :headbang:

It of course sucks. All it has done is that it's fuelled trafficking and run the business underground to be run by organised crime syndicates. It was intended to both combat prostitution and not stigmatise and punish the "working girls," but has accomplished neither...

I tihnk that prostitution should be legal because:

*it would protect prostitutes from abuse at the hands of pimps

*it would protect prostitutes from the ravages of STDs and drug addiction

*it would reduce the power of gangsters

*prostitution always has existed, and it isn't going away
Do you think it would have such a decisive effect? Certainly there would still be a paralel market for prostitutes who couldn´t be accepted by the legtitmate brothels..due to their age, infirmities(sexual or otherwise) and who wouldn´tt have anyother choice then to remain carrying out the business under the tutelage of a pimp...currently, western brothels are suplied by organized crime which gets nubile and pre-nubile poor women from eastern europe, africa and south america...do you think that would magically change with the legalization of prostitution?

I live in a country, where, in a couple weeks, depending on the elections, the wonderful achievements we have made with legalized prostitution might well be undone. :(

Germany only legalised it a year or two ago didn't they? That didn't last long. :rolleyes:

Personally I think that the majority of people in prostitution are in it because it's the only way they can get money to live, these people should be offered alternative jobs. If they still want to work as prostitutes then fine.

If I remember correctly the law in the UK is weird: prostitution isn't illegal but hiring prostitutes, running brothels and soliciting are.

It should be legal, and safe. And voluntary.
Sadly, legalization only grants one out of three, and makes it harder for police to help those for who it's not voluntary.

There are pricks out there who will happily take the attitude that "Hey, if it's legal, why ain't you out there bringing in cash for us that way? Screw your stupid waitress job, there's a lot more money you can bring in whoring yourself." The dangers of it, both in STDs and in the increased risk of cervical cancer typically don't spring to these people's minds. And when the choice is do what he says or get the crap beat out of you.. well..

While prostitution is not legal, the prick is less likely to make her go out and do that, as he risks losing his income when she's thrown in jail, and risks being thrown in jail himself for pimping.

Yeah, prostitution will always exist. So will assault and murder. Should we legalize those as well?

Now, that said, should the punishments for prostitution be harsh? I don't think so. The punishments for pimping, however, should be draconian.

Do you think it would have such a decisive effect? Certainly there would still be a paralel market for prostitutes who couldn´t be accepted by the legtitmate brothels..due to their age, infirmities(sexual or otherwise) and who wouldn´tt have anyother choice then to remain carrying out the business under the tutelage of a pimp...currently, western brothels are suplied by organized crime which gets nubile and pre-nubile poor women from eastern europe, africa and south america...do you think that would magically change with the legalization of prostitution?Another question: Do you think that that would be a valid reason to make all prostitution illegal?

but half a decade or so ago the feminist left and the right joined forces and gave us this stupidity.
Yes I have often noticed how often ardent "liberal" feminists defend the women's right to work at any job they want *except* when it's a job the feminist doesn't like. Then she goes very conservative.

Clare Short I'm looking at you!

currently, western brothels are suplied by organized crime which gets nubile and pre-nubile poor women from eastern europe, africa and south america...do you think that would magically change with the legalization of prostitution?
Well, convenience stores and cafés where I live are mostly staffed by Chinese and East Europeans. Difference is, convenience stores and cafés are legal enterprises. This means that the employees are protected by workers rights laws, child labour laws, etc. Yes, I think that with regulation, many of the problems of prostitution would disappear.

Do you think it would have such a decisive effect? Certainly there would still be a paralel market for prostitutes who couldn´t be accepted by the legtitmate brothels..due to their age, infirmities(sexual or otherwise) and who wouldn´tt have anyother choice then to remain carrying out the business under the tutelage of a pimp...currently, western brothels are suplied by organized crime which gets nubile and pre-nubile poor women from eastern europe, africa and south america...do you think that would magically change with the legalization of prostitution?

Of course there would still be underground brothels, pimps, etc. However, think about it from the point of view of a john. You can go to a reputable place that is regulated, with prostitutes who are regularly tested, and are there doing a job that they want to do - thus making it less likely that they are desperate for money and will rob you. On the other hand, you can go to an illegal prostitute, "owned" by a pimp who will likely kill you if you don't pay whatever he asks, have sex with a woman who probably doesn't always use protection and probably hasn't ever been tested for STDs, who might be desperate enough to kill/rob you herself. As the John, which option do you choose?

The vast majority of people who would use the services of prostitutes would choose the first option, making the second a largely unprofitable business to be in. If it is unprofitable, fewer people are likely to go into it.

"Should prostitution be legalized?"

No. Next question.

"Should prostitution be legalized?"

No. Next question.
That’s it as you obviously don’t have more to add to the discussion

That’s it as you obviously don’t have more to add to the discussion
LOL! Why, UT, whatever are you on about? After all this time of being on the same forum with me and you still can't just take my word for things? Tsk! :D

Well, convenience stores and cafés where I live are mostly staffed by Chinese and East Europeans. Difference is, convenience stores and cafés are legal enterprises. This means that the employees are protected by workers rights laws, child labour laws, etc. Yes, I think that with regulation, many of the problems of prostitution would disappear.

Anyone that walks past the border of a legal red light district and finds illegal and underage girls propositioning them can confirm that this theory is in error. Legalized protitution only encourages more illegal prostitution not less.

LOL! Why, UT, whatever are you on about? After all this time of being on the same forum with me and you still can't just take my word for things? Tsk! :D
Lol nope :) I was doing a bad job of trying to prompt your reasoning lol

Another question: Do you think that that would be a valid reason to make all prostitution illegal?
No, but i do believe that its rather risky to think that legalization would be a full-proof answer...or even the right one.
You see. it happens the same in my country when it comes to the legalization of the imigrant workforce...many employers prefer to employ ilegal imigrants so they don´t have to pay social security and all manner of expenses...having a ilegal alien working for you is much more profitable, and you can fire him on a whim, because he is to afraid of expulsion to go to the authorities and complain...don´t you think that it would happen the same with prostitution? (i know it isn´t polite to answer a question with another question, but i couldn´t resist :p

Lol nope :) I was doing a bad job of trying to prompt your reasoning lol
There have been several of these "Things will be so much better if we just legalize prostitution" threads. In every one of them I have said the same thing: legalizing anything in effect gives people permission to indulge in it, regardless of consequences. Legalizing prostitution, for example, gives young women permission to become prostitutes.

I, for one, cannot countenance the idea of any of my daughters or grandaughters becoming prostitutes, yet here would be the State, telling them it's ok. Contrary to popular belief, prostitution is not a "victimless crime." Even if pimps and their abusiveness, STDs and their devastating effects, and abusive "Johns" with their life-threatening antics, were all elminated, there would still be the life-long negative emotional and psychological impact on the prostitutes themselves.

No, but i do believe that its rather risky to think that legalization would be a full-proof answer...or even the right one.
You see. it happens the same in my country when it comes to the legalization of the imigrant workforce...many employers prefer to employ ilegal imigrants so they don´t have to pay social security and all manner of expenses...having a ilegal alien working for you is much more profitable, and you can fire him on a whim, because he is to afraid of expulsion to go to the authorities and complain...don´t you think that it would happen the same with prostitution? (i know it isn´t polite to answer a question with another question, but i couldn´t resist :pThat doesn't happen everywhere though, especially since unlike in the meat packing sector, you care what the prostitute looks like. There tend to be different tastes being catered to, and not all of them can be met with illegal immigration.
No one says its the right answer. It's choosing between two bad things: Women selling their bodies for money and women being forced to sell their bodies for money under atrocious conditions...
I like how the some of the anti-prostitution crowd in Amsterdam deals with it. They stand in the entrances of the Red Light district with red flags and speak to people about the problems of prostitution. Their activities have helped make the conditions better for prostitutes, since they made people aware of the problems, which is nice; better to go against the evils of prostitution than the symbol of prostitution.

There have been several of these "Things will be so much better if we just legalize prostitution" threads. In every one of them I have said the same thing: legalizing anything in effect gives people permission to indulge in it, regardless of consequences. Legalizing prostitution, for example, gives young women permission to become prostitutes. But it happens anyway. Some people consider it better to make sure that this happens where it can be controlled better than to ignore that it happens...
I, for one, cannot countenance the idea of any of my daughters or grandaughters becoming prostitutes, yet here would be the State, telling them it's ok. Contrary to popular belief, prostitution is not a "victimless crime." Even if pimps and their abusiveness, TDS and their devastating effects, and abusive "Johns" with their life-threatening antics, were all elminated, there would still be the life-long negative emotional and psychological impact on the prostitutes themselves.Thing is, there is a difference between ok and legal.
Also, you're not going to eliminate all those bad things you mentioned by keeping it illegal. There always has been and always will be prostitution.
As for the emotional side effects, a lot of this counts for alcohol and cigarettes too.
And I can understand that you don't want your children or grandchildren to be prostitutes. But in the end, the state should have as much control about that as with alcoholics or similar problems. It's up to friends and family to prevent and console that.

In the United States, on the Federal Level, Prostitution is not illegal-in many localities in the United States, It is.
Nevada has legal prostitution. Some areas of our major cities have persons who will "Escort" for a fee (often detailing some downright odd activities-but you're pyaing for their time, not their bodies, thus avoiding local anti-prostitution laws).
It is, and should remain, a local matter.

There have been several of these "Things will be so much better if we just legalize prostitution" threads. In every one of them I have said the same thing: legalizing anything in effect gives people permission to indulge in it, regardless of consequences. Legalizing prostitution, for example, gives young women permission to become prostitutes.

Who are you to tell a young woman (unless she is your underaged daughter - and I don't think anyone is advoctating the legalization of underaged prostitution anyways) that she cannot use what resources she has to get money?

I, for one, cannot countenance the idea of any of my daughters or grandaughters becoming prostitutes, yet here would be the State, telling them it's ok.

The state doesn't raise your children or your grandchildren. You and your children do. If you think prostitution is wrong, teach your children that. Don't ask the state to do your job for you.

Contrary to popular belief, prostitution is not a "victimless crime." Even if pimps and their abusiveness, STDs and their devastating effects, and abusive "Johns" with their life-threatening antics, were all elminated, there would still be the life-long negative emotional and psychological impact on the prostitutes themselves.

It *might* have such an effect. For some, sex is simply another commodity to sell. These people would have no problem selling it - as it means nothing emotionally to them. Others would have a problem with it. Of course, the same could be said of all sorts of things. Some women have adverse emotional and psychological effects from having an abortion, but it is legal because it is their choice to do so. Some people have adverse emotional and psychological effects from becoming models, but it is legal and is their choice to do so.

Should prostitution be legal? Yes, please. I mean - I don't know..... *hops off to work at bunny ranch*

Anyone that walks past the border of a legal red light district and finds illegal and underage girls propositioning them can confirm that this theory is in error. Legalized protitution only encourages more illegal prostitution not less.
The main difference here is that the underage prostitutes are on the streets with plenty of police around, rather than in the formerly illegal brothels. Even if this is true (and it doesn't sound like it), the net benefit to the majority of people is worth it.

Legalizing prostitution, for example, gives young women permission to become prostitutes.

I, for one, cannot countenance the idea of any of my daughters or grandaughters becoming prostitutes, yet here would be the State, telling them it's ok. Contrary to popular belief, prostitution is not a "victimless crime." Even if pimps and their abusiveness, STDs and their devastating effects, and abusive "Johns" with their life-threatening antics, were all elminated, there would still be the life-long negative emotional and psychological impact on the prostitutes themselves.
That's a very subjective way to look at it. Firstly, your descendants would have the choice to be prostitutes, it would not be mandatory. According to the state, your daughters have the right to star in porn films, get an abortion, or protest against the Iraq war. You don't like any of these things. Is that a good reason for them to be illegal?

A very good arguement. I am still concerned that Legalized Prostitution would cause HIV which can turn into AIDS a dangerous job. Since this can be problematic in any nation, prostitution should be illegal unless it is run by the government and is monitored CAREFULLY.

Hmm....I think I heard of a country doing this actually....

A very good arguement. I am still concerned that Legalized Prostitution would cause HIV which can turn into AIDS a dangerous job. Since this can be problematic in any nation, prostitution should be illegal unless it is run by the government and is monitored CAREFULLY.

First of all, prostitution can't "cause" HIV, but sleeping with someone who is infected can. Yes, it would be an occupational hazard of prostitution, just as it is an occupational hazard of being in the porn industry, or of being in the medical field. Just as these things are legal, but regulated, prostitution could be the same. It doesn't have to be run by the government, but the government can place restrictions on it - something that cannot be done unless it is legal.

The main difference here is that the underage prostitutes are on the streets with plenty of police around, rather than in the formerly illegal brothels. Even if this is true (and it doesn't sound like it), the net benefit to the majority of people is worth it.


That's not true. There are cities you can look at now and see that it's not true, both in Europe and Asia.

Prostitution encourages more prostitution. First, it makes it more socially acceptable and makes it less uncomfortable for people to participate in it, making it a small step to the illegal activity of prostitution, not less, as I said before. However, in addition to that, the children of prostitutes end up getting caught in a cycle which transcends generations and cultures. In Asian cities where "entertainment" is the biggest business and government and military authorities cooperate to encourage the supposed ‘safe’ flesh trade alternative where it is legal, its illegitimate little sister the illegal and underage version, and/or diseased prostitutes no longer allowed to work legally or without tax etc., are protected by a blanket of community silence on the issue because it is legal elsewhere they choose to look the other way and accept the practice in their communities.

In much the same way that not paying sales tax on a car sale between two individuals (friends for example) seems nonchalant in some circles, to lie about it so that they don't have to pay taxes or not as much) illegal prostitution, sex sale without the ‘sales’ tax, is not such a big step for people to take in locations where prostitution is legal…

Prostitution ruins lives, both of the women who participate (when they catch a disease like herpes or HIV, they don’t have another career choice to fall back on so when it is no longer possible for them to participate legally, they participate illegally and you end up right back where they are now, except there are MORE of them, not less.

It’s bad for the ‘johns’ as well, when they catch a disease, they don’t suddenly stop visiting prostitutes, and if you check them and they are no longer legal to participate, they will continue in the illegal trade of prostitution. And their wives catch it and their families suffer.

No, legalizing prostitution does nothing good for society and it does plenty of bad things, there is no reason to legalize it. All of the stuff that you guys say will go away with legalization is a myth, it will not go away, and there will be more of it.

In addition yet again, the entire premise of prostitution in society encourages the exact same traits that we have been trying to drive out of our cultures, not encourage it. You want to stop the supposed and so called ‘rape’ culture of America, legalizing prostitution will go entirely in the wrong direction in teaching young men that women are not sex objects for their enjoyment.

That's not true. There are cities you can look at now and see that it's not true, both in Europe and Asia.Which ones? Have you been there yourself?

First of all, prostitution can't "cause" HIV, but sleeping with someone who is infected can. Yes, it would be an occupational hazard of prostitution, just as it is an occupational hazard of being in the porn industry, or of being in the medical field. Just as these things are legal, but regulated, prostitution could be the same. It doesn't have to be run by the government, but the government can place restrictions on it - something that cannot be done unless it is legal.


It's not at all like the porn industry, where they have workers unisons and you can see the recent 'test' results of the people you are working with. The Health industry as well, where you are trained to 'assume' that the patient has HIV and you behave accordingly. If you stop prostitutes with Herpes from working, they will work illegally, if you stop Johns for legally being able to pay for a prostitute then he will do it illegally. You end up right where you were before you legalized prostitution, except now you have more them addicted to the behavior, either from not having another trade to practice or because it's the only way they know how to get sexual satisfaction.

Prostitution is ALWAYS bad.

Which ones? Have you been there yourself?


I was in the military once, I've been in lots of places. Are you trying to deny that it's true? Legalized prostitution does not end illegal prostitution, ever.

The idea that the human body should not be used as a commodity can be applied to illegalize the sale of any service.You aren't selling your body for sex when you prostitute yourself, you are renting it out.
Just like, say, how construction workers are paid to use their bodies to perform a service.

I was in the military once, I've been in lots of places. Are you trying to deny that it's true? Legalized prostitution does not end illegal prostitution, ever.Where?

the life is sometimes good and sometimes is not.
good things make life good.
bad things make life bad.
so if all bad things get banned or treated as good-
life is good.

but there is a little problem about it. you know. :headbang:

Where?

Where what?

If your question is, “what cities or countries have I been in,” then I fail to see how that applies to the topic of this thread.

But since your location says "Germany" why don’t' you drive on over to the Hamburg red light district the next time a military ship docks there or a big sporting event takes place, enough so that the local government has to bus in more prostitutes from Frankfurt for all of the anticipated customers, and then walk around 'outside' of the pedestrian only red-light districts and the 'garages' and see for yourself. Legalized prostitution does not stop illegal prostitution activities, not even then.

It's not at all like the porn industry, where they have workers unisons and you can see the recent 'test' results of the people you are working with. The Health industry as well, where you are trained to 'assume' that the patient has HIV and you behave accordingly. If you stop prostitutes with Herpes from working, they will work illegally, if you stop Johns for legally being able to pay for a prostitute then he will do it illegally. You end up right where you were before you legalized prostitution, except now you have more them addicted to the behavior, either from not having another trade to practice or because it's the only way they know how to get sexual satisfaction.

Prostitution is ALWAYS bad.

I hate to break it to you, but someone working in the porn industry who turns up positive for a disease will often go into the underground, illegal porn industry. However, very few people buy those types of porn. They can't get the financial backing that legitimate porn can - because they are an illegal trade trying to compete with a legal trade. Thus, there is very little money going into illegal porn, while there is plenty going into legal porn.

There is no reason at all to assume that legalized prostitution would not be the same. There is no reason to assume that prostitutes would not form workers' unions if they could legally do so. There is no reason to assume that a john would not rather frequent an institution where he can see a file demonstrating that the prostitute he is paying for has been tested. Prostitutes would be trained to act as if every john is infected, just like those in the health industry are trained to do. And, on top of that, you would have an illegal industry trying to compete with a legal industry which can get more financial backing.

As for johns getting "addicted" to prosititution, that is no different from people becoming addicted to gambling, or to alcohol. However, when these things have been made illegal in the past, all it has done is increase the problem - making victims unable to go to anyone, and putting money into crime-bosses' pockets.

*snip*

After all of that, how does that motivate us to want to legalize it? The legal version will not end the illegal version and you won't have any 'good' outcome from allowing it, only more bad outcome, why then legalize it? Leave it illegal and maintain the problem/damage.

After all of that, how does that motivate us to want to legalize it? The legal version will not end the illegal version and you won't have any 'good' outcome from allowing it, only more bad outcome, why then legalize it? Leave it illegal and maintain the problem/damage.
Gee, because maybe the legalized industry will be able to out-compete the illegal industry? You don't see many people investing money in black market organizations, do you?

Prohibition of alcohol was just so incredibly good at reducing alcohol-related crime, wasn't it! I mean, ignoring the massive black market that sprang up, and the huge boost it gave to organized crime... other than that, wow! It was so effective!

Making something that people always want illegal only increases the demand for it, and the people who end up supplying are those who already have no respect for the law. All prohibition does is act as a huge money-funnel for these folks.

Besides, it's the person's body, if s/he wants to sell access to their 'services', they should have every right to do so, in a safe fashion. As a rule, 'morality laws' are generally idiocy, in my books.

After all of that, how does that motivate us to want to legalize it? The legal version will not end the illegal version and you won't have any 'good' outcome from allowing it, only more bad outcome, why then legalize it? Leave it illegal and maintain the problem/damage.

I know that English isn't really that hard for you.

No, having something legal will not end the illegal version any more than having something illegal will. However, it will lead to less of the horrible things that currently happen in the industry, as most of the workers will be able to unionize, will have access to frequent testing, will be protected by law from any violent acts their johns wish to commit, and will be protected by law from exploitation by pimps and madams.

Much like the illegal porn industry, it will be damn near impossible to make a profit in illegal prostitution, as there would be a legitimate industry to compete with - and illegal industries can't compete well with legal ones. The vast majority of people who would frequent a prostitute will prefer the safer route, while those who think it immoral aren't going to do it just because it is illegal.

Take, for instance, alcohol. During prohibition, alcohol-related crime ran rampant, as the only way to get alcohol was to do so illegally. Mob bosses controlled entire cities, mostly through the alcohol trade However, people weren't going to give up their alcohol. Once prohibition was over, the illegal industry essentially fell apart. Yes, there are still people who smuggle illegal alcohol into the country. Yes, there are still people who still their own moonshine out in the fields. However, these are small, isolated incidents.
Most people aren't going to buy their alcohol from Jim-Bob whose still isn't regulated. If they were alcoholics and were legally ordered not to drink, and couldn't legitimately buy alcohol, they might go to Jim-Bob, but they would be few and far-between.

Prostitution encourages more prostitution. First, it makes it more socially acceptable and makes it less uncomfortable for people to participate in it, making it a small step to the illegal activity of prostitution, not less, as I said before. However, in addition to that, the children of prostitutes end up getting caught in a cycle which transcends generations and cultures.

Prostitution ruins lives, both of the women who participate (when they catch a disease like herpes or HIV, they don’t have another career choice to fall back on so when it is no longer possible for them to participate legally, they participate illegally and you end up right back where they are now, except there are MORE of them, not less.


This is not entirely true. I live in the Netherlands where prostitution is made completely legal recently. Prostitution as a job has not become acceptable all at once. Girls don't go "Mommy, I wannabe a hooker when I'm a big girl." Children must attend school until 18, all children, including those of prostitutes. So I don't think they'll end up in prostitution unvoluntarily, just because a parent is a prostitute.
And men don't say "I think I'll have a real good shag at the local brothel, honey".

The prostitutes themselves have a few problems. They must register at the Chamber of Commerce like every other bussiness. The problem is that these registers must be checked by a bank if she wants to buy a house, lend money, or whatever. Her profession is out in the open now, so to speak. It's not a job a girl would tell her neighbours.
"Then stop being a hooker", you might say. But most of the legal Dutch prostitutes are really in there because they want to be.
And because it's legal, every law concerning hygiene, tax, etc. applies. The girls must be checked by doctors regularly, the working area must be clean, etc, etc.

There is one catch. Legal prostitutes must pay taxes, illegal ones don't pay anything. So, they're cheaper and thus attracting more costumers in some areas.

That's about it, I guess.

Where what?

If your question is, “what cities or countries have I been in,” then I fail to see how that applies to the topic of this thread.

But since your location says "Germany" why don’t' you drive on over to the Hamburg red light district the next time a military ship docks there or a big sporting event takes place, enough so that the local government has to bus in more prostitutes from Frankfurt for all of the anticipated customers, and then walk around 'outside' of the pedestrian only red-light districts and the 'garages' and see for yourself. Legalized prostitution does not stop illegal prostitution activities, not even then.The what "cities I have been in" applies insofar that I was trying to get you to put some basis behind your accusation.
The local government ships in prostitutes? Bullshit. Sorry, but that wouldn't happen.
I've been to the Netherlands quite often and haven't seen what you're complaining about. In fact, no one claimed that it prevents illegal prostitution, but some people say it makes it safer for most of them. (By some people I mean the policemen that specialize in crime concerning prostitutes and the redlight districts and actually know what they're talking about)

I feel if people have to resort to prostitution to make money, the government has failed them.

In my country, prostitution is the only job available to women.

I live in a state where prostitution is condemed (at least officially (we have really corrupt police where I live prostitutes keep ending up in the bay and its been calculated that if all the crime commited by the police was taken away it would halve, and if you took away all the crime the police allow it would be less then a quarter of what it is at the moment))

and I want it to be outlawed entirely in every way

sex is only 'good' sex if it is between equals and if one person is paying another person for sex it makes it unequal

also it has problems with stds and its links with other crime

It should be permitted! and funded! by the governement! to prevent STDs!
(I have no idea if I am being sarcastic or not... O.o)

I think... in a way it might help cut back on rape... as long as the prostitutes themselves don't get raped...which they do O.o ah, lets just start handing out free blow up dolls! :D

There have been several of these "Things will be so much better if we just legalize prostitution" threads. In every one of them I have said the same thing: legalizing anything in effect gives people permission to indulge in it, regardless of consequences. Legalizing prostitution, for example, gives young women permission to become prostitutes.

IMHO, legalizing something doesn't make it necessarily "all better". However, I also believe that if it is an action between two or more consenting adults (thus eliminating rape and child prostitution) then there should be no law made against it. If there is a negative consequence to it then that is for the people engaging in the activity to suffer as a result to their action. Skydiving for example. High change of dying there, though granted less nowadays then before, but that's never been made illegal. In addition, one does not legalize anything. You either make it illegal, or it simply is. You can repeal a law making something illegal, but it isn't "legalizing" anything. By saying legalizing an act or whatever you make the implication that all things are illegal and the exceptions must be given permision to be legal. Instead, it is the other way around (or should be); all is legal, and the exceptions need to be made into law where the action or whatever would deprive an individual of their life, property or liberties against their will through force or fraud.

I, for one, cannot countenance the idea of any of my daughters or grandaughters becoming prostitutes, yet here would be the State, telling them it's ok.

To say something is permissable doesn't not imply it is "ok" In fact a Government should not be making any judgement calls, save, as I stated above, it deprives a person, yada yada. YOU are the one responsible for teaching your daughters that prostitution is wrong in your eyes (and of others but not all others.) Once she is an adult you no longer hold any responsibility for her (love yes, responsibility no). If you did a good job then she will believe as you do. If you did a poor job she may, but not necessarily, go aginst your beliefs. But ultimately it'll be her choice. She will have to suffer the consequences of her actions. How you choose to react to her actions is YOUR choice. The state is not there to enforce YOUR beliefs. It's there to protect your rights.

Contrary to popular belief, prostitution is not a "victimless crime." Even if pimps and their abusiveness, STDs and their devastating effects, and abusive "Johns" with their life-threatening antics, were all elminated, there would still be the life-long negative emotional and psychological impact on the prostitutes themselves.

Prostitution IS a victimless event (it's only a crime where it's illegal.) Any abuse either by pimps or johns is a crime seperate from the event of prostitution. Abuse is not exclusive to prostitution, therefore it not a valid reason for illegalizing it. That logic would require you to illegalize any event that would have potential abuse and that would include parenting. Same with STD's. Many STD's are passed on outside of prostitution. The logical conclusion there would be to illegalize sex, which is doable with the artificaial insemination technology so affordable today, but not likely to make it. Now as far as the emotional and psychological impact that is for the prostitute to deal with. One could suffer just as much negative emotional and psychological impact from a regular job with an abusive boss, or just even low pay and no chance for advancement. There should never be a law to save people from themselves. All individuals must make the choices to shape their lives and only they are responsible for themselves.

Prostitution ruins lives, both of the women who participate (when they catch a disease like herpes or HIV, they don’t have another career choice to fall back on so when it is no longer possible for them to participate legally, they participate illegally and you end up right back where they are now, except there are MORE of them, not less.

You can also say that mining ruins lives, with miners catching lung deseases. Or race car driving ruins lives...look at Ernhart (I hope I spelled that correctly, appologies if I didn't). In countries where there is no Disability, a person who has been told his back is now bad and can't do heavy lifting, could, if unable to find other work, go back to the type of work he did and destory his back and die or be paralized. These type of arguments could applied to many other areas in life. In addition I know of some former prostitutes who use their prostitution to pay for their college. They now enjoy good careers in other fields. If the prostitute is not under a pimp/madam that takes all but surviving money from their prostitute, they can chose to better themselves. If they fail to that is the consequence to their actions. It's the same as a student failing to apply himself in school and really learn (instead of letting the system socially promote him to save his self-esteem) then having a burger flipping job with no potential for any real career is his consequence.

In addition yet again, the entire premise of prostitution in society encourages the exact same traits that we have been trying to drive out of our cultures, not encourage it. You want to stop the supposed and so called ‘rape’ culture of America, legalizing prostitution will go entirely in the wrong direction in teaching young men that women are not sex objects for their enjoyment.

I think what really gets me here is that you are assuming that only women are prostitutes. It falls under the same stupidity as only men are rapists. Just because the opposite is less doesn't mean it doesn't exsist. Wouldn't the legalization of prostitution also teach young women that the male prostitiutes are sex objects as well?

Legalized prostitution does not end illegal prostitution, ever.

Legalized anything never ends the illegalized version of it. Look at all the cigarette smuggling across the state lines. Look at the tabbaco and alcohol buying for minors. Wherever there is a law that limits something legal there will be those who will bypass those laws. Period

A very good arguement. I am still concerned that Legalized Prostitution would cause HIV which can turn into AIDS a dangerous job. Since this can be problematic in any nation, prostitution should be illegal unless it is run by the government and is monitored CAREFULLY.

Hmm....I think I heard of a country doing this actually....
This is one of the arguments for legalising prostitution. If it's legal, it's possible to impose health regulations. If it's illegal, it's driven underground where there are no rules.

After all of that, how does that motivate us to want to legalize it? The legal version will not end the illegal version and you won't have any 'good' outcome from allowing it, only more bad outcome, why then legalize it? Leave it illegal and maintain the problem/damage.In case you haven't noticed, we are argueing that NOTHING ends prostitution, so it's better to make at least some of it safer than to ensure that none of it is safe.

*snip*
The local government ships in prostitutes? Bullshit. Sorry, but that wouldn't happen.


Displaying your ignorance is not a valid reason for me to excuse your rudeness simply because I told you something you didn't already know... grow up kid.

I didn't say a word about Amsterdam, I said Hamburg Germany. Frankfurt prostitutes are bused over to Hamburg (and vice versa) for big events like soccer tournamnets or other times when they think there will be too many prostitution customers for the local prostitutes to handle. If you're really in Germany try looking around for yourself.

In Munich, street prostitution is forbidden almost everywhere but in Berlin it is allowed across the board. Hamburg allows it at the train station at certain times of the day at at the district and in the 'garages.' Many smaller cities declare city centers and residential areas off limits. My main point is, it is legal and they DO bus them around for big events.

But since you mentioned the Netherlands, I will too. In the Netherlands - as in Germany - the protection sought by the legalization of prostitution obviously can't be applied to illegal workers. And it is estimated that 6 out of 10 prostitutes in Amsterdam are aliens who live and work illegally.

We need only look to Sweden to see the future of legalization of prostitution. They legalized prostitution 30 years ago - recriminalized it in 1998, after complaints that legalization had solved few of the problems it set out to address.

Legalizing prostitution does NOT make the problems go away. People get sick, people then work without licenses, more people get sick. Prostitution is never good.


Read more here:
http://www.femmigration.net/introduction/intro_germany.html

The local government ships in prostitutes? Bullshit. Sorry, but that wouldn't happen.

I'll have to call you on this one. I've seen the news stories quoting the govenrnment spokesperson talking about bringing in extra prostitutes and even setting up "garages" near the event area (which are given temperary legal status).

Displaying your ignorance is not a valid reason for me to excuse your rudeness simply because I told you something you didn't already know... grow up kid.Sorry to have to reveal your ignorance to you, but Hamburg is currently ruled by the German conservative party which only just ended a coalition with the party of Ronald "Judge Merciless" Schill, and I doubt either of them would have let that happen. Whatever you reported sounds like it happened a while ago, so if you have anything to back up the accusation that the conservative government of Hamburg ships prostitutes in to meet the local demand, then prove me wrong.
I didn't say a word about Amsterdam, I said Hamburg Germany. Frankfurt prostitutes are bused over to Hamburg (and vice versa) for big events like soccer tournamnets or other times when they think there will be too many prostitution customers for the local prostitutes to handle. If you're really in Germany try looking around for yourself.

In Munich, street prostitution is forbidden almost everywhere but in Berlin it is allowed across the board. Hamburg allows it at the train station at certain times of the day at at the district and in the 'garages.' Many smaller cities declare city centers and residential areas off limits. My main point is, it is legal and they DO bus them around for big events. Who are "they"? You claimed it was the governments, and yet both Hamburg and Hesse are ruled by the conservative party. They would be loathe to do anything of the sort.
As for Amsterdam, I've mentioned where I've been. I've also been to Berlin, since it happens to be the city I grew up in. You really have to go looking for the illegals, so I'm really interested in how you found them.

But since you mentioned the Netherlands, I will too. In the Netherlands - as in Germany - the protection sought by the legalization of prostitution obviously can't be applied to illegal workers. And it is estimated that 6 out of 10 prostitutes in Amsterdam are aliens who live and work illegally.

We need only look to Sweden to see the future of legalization of prostitution. They legalized prostitution 30 years ago - recriminalized it in 1998, after complaints that legalization had solved few of the problems it set out to address.

Legalizing prostitution does NOT make the problems go away. People get sick, people then work without licenses, more people get sick. Prostitution is never good.
Maybe you should read the source you gave me below. It talks about the healthcare you can get as a "sex worker" in Germany.

Read more here:
http://www.femmigration.net/introduction/intro_germany.html

I'll have to call you on this one. I've seen the news stories quoting the govenrnment spokesperson talking about bringing in extra prostitutes and even setting up "garages" near the event area (which are given temperary legal status).Please source it. I find it doubtful that the CDU would do something like that.

*snip*

:rolleyes:

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,1176335,00.html

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000100&sid=aZDQBB2bj8DU&refer=germany

:rolleyes:

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,1176335,00.html

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000100&sid=aZDQBB2bj8DU&refer=germany
Your point being?

They have legalized prostitution AND gambling (tax the hell outta both too); they have well funded schools...well maintained cities; a lower tax rate on the common man, a strong economy; how could that be bad?!? The rest of america oughta follow their example!

They have legalized prostitution AND gambling (tax the hell outta both too); they have well funded schools...well maintained cities; a lower tax rate on the common man, a strong economy; how could that be bad?!? The rest of america oughta follow their example!

The rest of the world ought to follow their example. Course in the long term that could damage the tourist industry in vegas, but its a price im willing to pay, since i cant afford to go there.

Your point being?

http://www.dw-3d.de/dw/article/0,1564,1610584,00.html

The rest of the world ought to follow their example. Course in the long term that could damage the tourist industry in vegas, but its a price im willing to pay, since i cant afford to go there.

I doubt it will damage tourism. Vegas is 'Sin City', the uniqueness of the city itself will without a doubt allow it to continue to be a major attraction unless the entire US follows suit. Then it will be THE origin of it all.

http://www.dw-3d.de/dw/article/0,1564,1610584,00.htmlIf that was your source for the Hamburg government shipping in prostitutes, then I'm really disappointed :(
Dortmund is by no means Hamburg (Dortmund is ruled by the Socialists that don't block the legislation and thus make the laws less than preferable). In fact, it didn't say anything about the city's government doing anything to import prostitutes, only that they'd make things more comfortable for the ones that will inevitably come. BIG DIFERENCE. (But I am glad that you're not using crappy sources like I've gotten in some other debates :) I really appreciate that)

Engels use to say that the 19th century version of marriage was in fact institutionalized prostitution, held in respect by society at large because of blatant hipochrisy of the burgeois class. Many people today argue that prostitutes can play a important part in troubled marriages...the husband gets his kicks with another woman and the wife doesn´t mind because she doesn´t put a significant value on sex anyway...some even argue that prostitution can serve as a healthy outlet to men and women lacking social skills that are necessary to get a sexual partner...

Prostitution is banned in BROJAS, and is not currently an issue on the Royal Pending List.