NationStates Jolt Archive

Firstly let us examine the end of the European Empires.

It is a commonly held belief that the European Empire collapsed due to various uprisings from natives. Indeed the intial facts of the situation would seem correspond with this belief: as the empires declined, native revolts seemed to grow in strength and number. However this can be brought into question. The European Empires were well known (if not notorious) for their ability to subdue revolts and had done so in the past. The rebellions and wars that marked most colonies in the post-1945 world were relatively small in comparison to some of the uprisings that had been committed in the past. The civil demonstrations in India, for example, were on the whole peaceful in nature and as such its threat to British Raj was minimal. Even large scale revolts and wars could have been easily dealt with by the imperial powers as they had done in the past - note the Indian Mutiny of 1858 or the Boer War. The uprisings in the colonies in the 1950s and 1960s were not lethal to the continued presence of the imperial powers.

So why did the colonial powers collapse, if not through the uprisings of natives? There are numerous reasons but none so predominant as the use of American economic prowess to undermine the imperialist powers. The dominance of the dollar in 1945 essentially meant that powers like Britain and France could no longer maintain their grip on their colonies. The Americans placed considerable pressure (both economic and diplomatic) on the Europeans to give up their Empires, which they mostly did. Afterall, the European powers could hardly afford American economic sanctions while their economies were still reeling from the aftermath of the Second World War.

So what does this have to do with anti Americanism in Europe? Well the answer is simple.

After World War Two, the European political scene was no longer a matter of conservative against liberal. It was now a matter of a conservative against socialist. The conservatives among the Europeans wished to preserve their Empires but, in almost all other idealogical aspects, were friendly to America and the American way of life. However, by making Empires economically unviable to hold, American unwittingly knocked down conservative governments in Europe and replaced them with socialist ones, who were nore willing to decommission the colonies but, at the same time, were idealogically opposed to the American ideal.

The most prominent example of this is the Suez Crisis, where the conservative British government of Anthony Eden attempted to regain control of Suez Canal from the rogue General Nasser. The American government not only refused to aid its Anglo-Saxon ally (special relationship? not likely) but threatened to impose trade restrictions and to increase the rate of repayment on the loans that Great Britain owed to the United States. Of course, the British government floundered and the entire expedition went down the drain. This expedition doomed the Conservative government in the opinion polls and quickly installed a Labour government, who were more willing to dismantle the Empires.

So what America got in Europe were governments that were anti-imperial but also anti-USA. The American undermining of conservative governments in Europe allowed socialist parties (like Britain's Labour) to take root (afterall Labour had still only had three governments by the time of the Suez Canal Crisis). And these socialist government then proceeded to work the theme of anti-Americanism into their societies.

Which is when we come to the present day and find that, lo and behold, the governments and peoples of Europe are generally anti-American. Even when governments are not anti America (see Britain and Spain), they are quickly undermined by the anti-Americanism of their people who object to taking part in what they see as America's wars. This is quite a change from fifty years ago, when America was revered in Western Europe for their aid during and after the Second World War.

The squandering of political capital gained with the fall of the USSR too.

Never before has mankind been witness to such complacency.

I hate when that happens.

The death of the European Empires has as much to do with their [France and Britain in particular] failure to colonise thoroughly. Too hap hazardly done.

Imagine, if you will, what would have happened if Britain had raised conscript armies from her African empire to fight the Nazis? Can you imagine the numbers Nigeria, South Africa, The Rhodesias and Nyasaland (Zimbabwe Zambia and Malawi), Kenya, Ghana, Sudan etc could have contributed to the war effort.

Of course it would have come at the cost of reforming the Imperial system and social reform away from the racist paths taken later.

Imagine, if you will, what would have happened if Britain had raised conscript armies from her African empire to fight the Nazis?
Erm, a bloodbath? I doubt it would have been possible to give very good training at such short notice. Plus, the British Empire was for most of its life a business venture, consequently unconcerned with the need to raise massive conscript armies, except volunteer units for local security duties.

Erm, a bloodbath? I doubt it would have been possible to give very good training at such short notice. Plus, the British Empire was for most of its life a business venture, consequently unconcerned with the need to raise massive conscript armies, except volunteer units for local security duties.

Any slower than training a conscript white army? As they did, specifically I am talking about the WWII conflict!

Meh, I blame the media and the "intellectual elite" more than anything.

Remember, America has always been considered a backwards mongrel nation since its inception...I think it's frustrating for a group of Euro-centrists to find themselves in a lower position on the totem pole than said "backwards" nation. How can you teach your ideas are superior if clearly, your nation isn't?

Sad thing is, I think most Euros could care less about the US. We aren't invading Geneva or Brussels anytime soon. But you got leaders in countries like France who are trying to hijack the EU concept so they can put themselves into a position of real power again using the combined power of the smaller less influential European nations.

I think it's more complicated than that. I think there are numerous reasons for Anti-Americanism and I also think that there are several different kinds of Anti-Americanism. (nb these my observations only and theoretically could be wrong)

Let me address the different types 1st.

Benign Anti-Americanism: This is more an Anti-Bush sentiment than true Anti-Americanism. What I gather it is a feeling of resentment over being ignored in their council. They dislike Bush's undiplomatic "cowboy" attitude, and the vulgar use of power. They believe a different President will correct this.

Slightly less begin is the feeling as above but more of a America is an immature country and needs to grow out of this.

There is the "sour grapes" Anti-Americanism these folk hate the fact that the US currently has the strongest military and biggest economy.

This goes hand in hand with "Liberal Guilt" Anti-Americanism this is usually the home grown Michael Moore type, also many young idealist tend to embrace this.

There is the US is the GREAT SATAN-ISRAEL BACKER type too but nuff said on that.

The reason for so much Anti-Americanism exists are and it has been said in previous threads is allot of hypocrisy that lead from the Cold War. We preach Democracy but deposed Socialist leaders that were democratically elected. (They were Pro Soviet and at the time it seemed like a good idea)

The US has a lot to answer for historically but so do many other countries (Germany being one of the few to say their Mea Cupla's and own their sins)
The US has good intentions but frequently falls short on execution.
We are also dislike because we are the current Alpha Male and the old pack leader (Europe) doesn't really like their new role (elder statesman to America's current role of warrior king) and their will always be young pups nipping at the big dogs heels.(the US nipped at Europe and China nips at the US).

I also see a ton of young people both within and outside of the US that are Anti-American/Anti-Capitalist, I chalk this up to youthful idealism that has yet to have the veneer of naiveté rubbed off.

The German's did recruit from England's colonies look at the Azad Hind. (Indian Troops in the German army) There were also Irish in the SS (old grudges die hard) The threat FROM the colonies was also great.


The death of the European Empires has as much to do with their [France and Britain in particular] failure to colonise thoroughly. Too hap hazardly done.

Imagine, if you will, what would have happened if Britain had raised conscript armies from her African empire to fight the Nazis? Can you imagine the numbers Nigeria, South Africa, The Rhodesias and Nyasaland (Zimbabwe Zambia and Malawi), Kenya, Ghana, Sudan etc could have contributed to the war effort.

Of course it would have come at the cost of reforming the Imperial system and social reform away from the racist paths taken later.

America didn't help herself by coming late to WW1 and 2 (some say waiting for the economic power to be drained in europe before cashing in).

DECLARATION OF REVOCATION
To the citizens of the United States of America, in the light of your failure to elect a competent President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective today.

Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths and other territories.

Except Utah, which she does not fancy.

Your new Prime Minister (The Right Honourable Tony Blair, MP for the 97.85% of you who have until now been unaware that there is a world outside your borders) will appoint a Minister for America without the need for further elections.

Congress and the Senate will be disbanded.

A questionnaire will be circulated next year to determine whether any of you noticed. To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:

1. You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary. Then look up "aluminium." Check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it.

The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'favour' and 'neighbour'; skipping the letter 'U' is nothing more than laziness on your part. Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters.

You will end your love affair with the letter 'Z' (pronounced 'zed' not 'zee') and the suffix "ize" will be replaced by the suffix "ise."

You will learn that the suffix 'burgh' is pronounced 'burra' e.g. Edinburgh. You are welcome to re-spell Pittsburgh as 'Pittsberg' if you can't cope with correct pronunciation.

Generally, you should raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up “vocabulary." Using the same thirty seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "uhh", "like", and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication.

Look up "interspersed."

There will be no more 'bleeps' in the Jerry Springer show. If you're not old

enough to cope with bad language then you shouldn't have chat shows. When you learn to develop your vocabulary, then you won't have to use bad language as often.

2. There is no such thing as "US English." We will let Microsoft know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell-checker will be adjusted to take account of the reinstated letter 'u' and the elimination of "-ize."

3. You should learn to distinguish the English and Australian accents. It really isn't that hard. English accents are not limited to cockney, upper-class twit or Mancunian (Daphne in Frasier).

You will also have to learn how to understand regional accents --- Scottish dramas such as "Taggart" will no longer be broadcast with subtitles.

While we're talking about regions, you must learn that there is no such place as Devonshire in England. The name of the county is "Devon." If you persist in calling it Devonshire, all American States will become "shires" e.g. Texasshire, Floridashire, Louisianashire.

4. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as the good guys. Hollywood will be required to cast English actors to play English characters.

British sit-coms such as "Men Behaving Badly" or "Red Dwarf" will not be re-cast and watered down for a wishy-washy American audience who can't cope with the humour of occasional political incorrectness.

5. You should relearn your original national anthem, "God Save The Queen", but only after fully carrying out task 1. We would not want you to get confused and give up half way through.

6. You should stop playing American "football." There is only one kind of football. What you refer to as American "football" is not a very good game.

The 2.15% of you who are aware that there is a world outside your borders may have noticed that no one else plays "American" football. You will no longer be allowed to play it, and should instead play proper football.

Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls. It is a difficult game. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which is similar to American "football", but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like nancies).

We are hoping to get together at least a US Rugby sevens side by 2005.

You should stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to host an event called the 'World Series' for a game which is not played outside of America. Since only 2.15% of you are aware that there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable. Instead of baseball, you will be allowed to play a girls' game called "rounders," which is baseball without fancy team strip, oversized gloves, collector cards or hotdogs.

7. You will no longer be allowed to own or carry guns. You will no longer be allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous in public than a vegetable peeler. Because we don't believe you are sensible enough to handle potentially dangerous items, you will require a permit if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.

8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 2nd will be a new national holiday, but only in England. It will be called "Indecisive Day."

9. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap, and it is for your own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we mean.

All road intersections will be replaced with roundabouts. You will start driving on the left with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect and without the benefit of conversion tables. Roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense of humour.

10. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call 'French fries' are not real chips. Fries aren't even French, they are Belgian though 97.85% of you (including the guy who discovered fries while in Europe) are not aware of a country called Belgium. Those things you insist on calling potato chips are properly called "crisps." Real chips are thick cut and fried in animal fat. The traditional accompaniment to chips is beer which should be served warm and flat.

Waitresses will be trained to be more aggressive with customers.

11. As a sign of penance 5 grams of sea salt per cup will be added to all tea made within the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, this quantity to be doubled for tea made within the city of Boston itself.

12. The cold tasteless stuff you insist on calling "beer" is not actually beer at all, it is lager . From November 1st only proper British Bitter will be referred to as "beer," and European brews of known and accepted provenance will be referred to as "Lager." The substances formerly known as "American Beer" will henceforth be referred to as "Near-Frozen Gnat's Urine," with the exception of the product of the American Budweiser company whose product will be referred to as "Weak Near-Frozen Gnat's Urine." This will allow true Budweiser (as manufactured for the last 1000 years in the Czech Republic) to be sold without risk of confusion.

13. From November 10th the UK will harmonise petrol (or "gasoline," as you will be permitted to keep calling it until April 1st 2005) prices with the former USA. The UK will harmonise its prices to those of the former USA and the Former USA will, in return, adopt UK petrol prices (roughly $6/US gallon -- get used to it).

14. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows that you're not adult enough to be independent. Guns should only be handled by

adults. If you're not adult enough to sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist, then you're not grown up enough to handle a gun.

15. Please tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us crazy.

16. Tax collectors from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all revenues due (backdated to 1776).

Thank you for your co-operation.

Meh, I blame the media and the "intellectual elite" more than anything.

Remember, America has always been considered a backwards mongrel nation since its inception...I think it's frustrating for a group of Euro-centrists to find themselves in a lower position on the totem pole than said "backwards" nation. How can you teach your ideas are superior if clearly, your nation isn't?

Sad thing is, I think most Euros could care less about the US. We aren't invading Geneva or Brussels anytime soon. But you got leaders in countries like France who are trying to hijack the EU concept so they can put themselves into a position of real power again using the combined power of the smaller less influential European nations.
Excellent analysis. I'm particularly impressed with the second paragraph [ bolded ].

Excellent analysis. I'm particularly impressed with the second paragraph [ bolded ].
You might be impressed, but it's wrong.

He's impressed because it agrees with his view that America is perfect, that America has never possibly made a mistake (those commie gook civilians deserved it!) and that if anyone happens to dislike something, then they MUST be jealous of it.

For example, I don't happen to be too keen on white chocolate. Imagine my immense suprise when I was informed that this meant I wanted to be a piece of white chocolate.

Excellent analysis. I'm particularly impressed with the second paragraph [ bolded ].

Thanks for the compliment. :D

On the Anti-American issue, I suppose for a lot of non-Americans like myself, we look at JFK, Boby Kennedy, Martin Luther King, the emancipation of slaves, the bold new world on one hand, and red necked Republicanism, jack boots and Macdonalds on the other hand and are dispossesed of our illusions.

As for the British Empire, well as a product of it, my reading has been that Whitehall has perpetually failed to take the harder more rewarding route. The Empire was created by British people going out there and carving up the world, not by Britain itself. Giving up on the Empire was a cost cutting measure as much as anything else. We colonialists were alowed to create dangerous ideals because that was easier than actually trying to run an effective empire.

Everyone hates on McDonald's! McDonald's does nothing but serve a small menu of crappy food quickly.

-Snip

I could rip you apart right now, but I'll sum it up to this...

We beat you! Nah nah nah nah!

Ah you did not beat me my friend as a Welsh nationalist I am more anti-Britain than most.
Shame you decided to allow the Germans to take France after they helped you in that little ruck though isn't it. America aren't very nice friends to have, they ask much and offer little.
spelling edit.

Excellent analysis. I'm particularly impressed with the second paragraph [ bolded ].
Even though it's wrong, because it essentially states that "they are jealous". :rolleyes:

I could rip you apart right now, but I'll sum it up to this...

We beat you! Nah nah nah nah!

Only in the same way that Vietnam beat America ;)

Ah you did not beat me my friend as a Welsh nationalist I am more anti-Britain than most.
Shame you decided to allow the Germans to take France after they helped you in that little ruck though isn't it. America aren't very nice friends to have, they ask much and offer little.
spelling edit.

Better late than never I always say.

We could have just focused right on Japan and let Nazi Germany sieze Western Europe. We also could have let the rest of Germany fall to the USSR. Should be thankful for that at least.

Although I'll be the first person to say: "Why didn't we elect Gore?"

Only in the same way that Vietnam beat America ;)

The French and South Vietnamese lost that war, not us! We were never there! Shut up and eat your soup! Makes amad dash toward the exit

Better late than never I always say.

We could have just focused right on Japan and let Nazi Germany sieze Western Europe. We also could have let the rest of Germany fall to the USSR. Should be thankful for that at least.

Although I'll be the first person to say: "Why didn't we elect Gore?"

THANKFUL!!! For lumbering us with Thatcher when we could have had Gorbachev and Stalin!! I should come over and sort you out right now for that!! :)

THANKFUL!!! For lumbering us with Thatcher when we could have had Gorbachev and Stalin!! I should come over and sort you out right now for that!! :)

sort me out?

Oh you mean rough me up, sorry but European linguistics is like solving Multi-dimensional algorithms for us Americans. :)

DECLARATION OF REVOCATION
To the citizens of the United States of America, in the light of your failure to elect a competent President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective today.

Thanks for this piece. I love it. But, honestly, couldn't we rewrite history a bit so that another European country might have a chance to recreate itself 'from sea to shining sea'? The USA has inherited too much of the English way of doing things. For example:

Sports: Baseball and football are essentially English (like cricket). They are like a boring ballet with many pauses; one must have been raised in Anglo-American culture to really understand and appreciate them.

Education: The UK has its 'public schools' and the US has its private schools - both systems reserved for the sons and daughters of the rich and superrich. The UK has its Oxbridge and the US has its Harvard and Yale, etc. And the very same system of seems to apply - if one is wealthy, one attends either of those institutions. Look at the Bush family! This kind of snobbism has no place in a real democracy.

Cuisine: British and American food is super as long as you do not let the natives cook it. Just think of the wonders of American cuisine if the French or Italians had taken over the continent.

Economics / politics: An American who makes tons of money becomes the equivalent of a noble; he must be elected (unlike a lord in the UK) but then he can become a US senator and make laws that protect his wealth. In reality, the average American stands little chance of attaining the superstar status of president. And obviously, intelligence has little to do with one's success in politics.

;)

Even though it's wrong, because it essentially states that "they are jealous".

It ain't necessarily jealousy. Many Europeans don't believe in the same ideals as Americans. They don't want what we have, except for dominance. Everyone desires that. But it does bring tension when Europe wants things to be one way, and the US just hops over them and does its own thing that may run counter to what the Euros wanted.

Nah it's not jealousy, I would be extremely happy to have my little country working alongside others whilst preserving our own culture and language. Unfotunately corporatism (and mainly American corporatism) is making the world scarily like the world of Jennifer Government with shopping centres and high streets the same the world over. Australia only hold out because their Burger Kings are called Hungry Jacks so they look slightly different!!!
As for food, give me roast beef and yorkshire puddingover frogs legs and snails any day of the week and

The most prominent example of this is the Suez Crisis, where the conservative British government of Anthony Eden attempted to regain control of Suez Canal from the rogue General Nasser. The American government not only refused to aid its Anglo-Saxon ally (special relationship? not likely) but threatened to impose trade restrictions and to increase the rate of repayment on the loans that Great Britain owed to the United States. Of course, the British government floundered and the entire expedition went down the drain. This expedition doomed the Conservative government in the opinion polls and quickly installed a Labour government, who were more willing to dismantle the Empires.

So no mention of how the USSR had threatened to intervene on behalf of Egypt and launch attacks by "all types of modern weapons of destruction" on London and Paris, and only then did the USA force the UK and France to withdraw?

Ah you did not beat me my friend as a Welsh nationalist I am more anti-Britain than most.
Shame you decided to allow the Germans to take France after they helped you in that little ruck though isn't it. America aren't very nice friends to have, they ask much and offer little.
spelling edit.

Agreed. Ask most Canadians what they think of their "best friend" America.

not quite true the colonies actually had some military victories the Communist forces in Veitnam had none. (at least none against the US)



Only in the same way that Vietnam beat America ;)

not quite true the colonies actually had some military victories the Communist forces in Veitnam had none. (at least none against the US)

Funniest thing I have read in years!!!

There is not a day that goes by that i am not thankful for the US. Can u imagen is these mad basturds ran europe

Funniest thing I have read in years!!!
You find facts amusing, do you?

You find facts amusing, do you?
He/She Should! The bewildering amount of facts in this thread should convert justabout anybody! --No?

Shame you decided to allow the Germans to take France after they helped you in that little ruck though isn't it. America aren't very nice friends to have, they ask much and offer little.
spelling edit.

It's a shame you show your ignorance about the US.

The military at the time of the invasion of France was small, undertrained and hardly equiped to tangle with the Germans head on.

Funniest thing I have read in years!!!

Ok do name a battle the US lost against the VietCong and or the NVA?

Ok do name a battle the US lost against the VietCong and or the NVA?
The battle over Vietnam?

It is a tad red today, isn't it. Not the fault of the people (who were) in the ground, mind you...

well britain and america were rivals for quite some time (if hitler hadn't come to power and then gone on the rampage then in all probablity britain and japan would have attacked america (and quite probably won))

ok well if you calll that simple then i call nuclear biology simple... in simple language tell me wtf your talking about

The battle over Vietnam?

It is a tad red today, isn't it. Not the fault of the people (who were) in the ground, mind you...

Don't you mean the war over Vietnam?

That is different then battles fought during the war.....

It's true, name one Vietnamese military victory against the US.
The US beat the Hessians at Trenton, and the Bristish at Yorktown and Saratoga.
Funniest thing I have read in years!!!

The US lost politically, because the anti-war movement destroyed it's will to fight...Yes we did lose politically not militarially.
You should read General Gaip's account of the war.


The battle over Vietnam?

It is a tad red today, isn't it. Not the fault of the people (who were) in the ground, mind you...

What is this? How did you get from Europe to Vietnam in 3 pages?

The US lost politically, because the anti-war movement destroyed it's will to fight...Yes we did lose politically not militarially.
You should read General Gaip's account of the war.

Which one? Didn't he write 3?

What is this? How did you get from Europe to Vietnam in 3 pages?

Hey!

Considering how long you have been here; you actually ask that question? :p

Don't you mean the war over Vietnam?

That is different then battles fought during the war.....
No.

How could I mean the 'war' over Vietnam? There was no war... was there?

No.

How could I mean the 'war' over Vietnam? There was no war... was there?

Politically? No it wasn't. Our Congress didn't declare it.

Reality? Yes it was. You had military units fighing other military units and para-military forces.

The US military was never defeated in battle.

The US military was never defeated in battle.
Okay then. That must have felt good. Gone to sleep now, you lardasses. Later.

Specificaly "How We Won the War"

Which one? Didn't he write 3?

Okay then. That must have felt good. Gone to sleep now, you lardasses. Later.

Good night!

Specificaly "How We Won the War"

Ahh thanks! That's always been "I should read that" but always forget. Will add that to amazon now. ;)

DECLARATION OF REVOCATION
<snip>
A masterpiece! Thanks! :D

Good night!
I wish someone pressed your spine too BF... it does so good!