NationStates Jolt Archive

The media often labels the BNP as "right-wing" why? They are fairly centrist racist/nationalists.

I was on their website and they advocate universal, free state healthcare, good public transport and state schools. They argue that CAP is wrong (not because subsidising inefficient industry is wrong) because there should be more emphasis on subsidy encouraged British high quality produce, this is what Labour is currently doing with massive start up grants for organic farming. Like wise cutting civil servants.

They attack global capitalism, advocating protectionist trade policies and workers owning means of production. I would say all this amounts mildly socialist ideals.

They then have all the anti-Islam, anti-black, nationalist, tough on crime stuff but being racist is not exclusive to the political right. It annoys me when the BNP is called right-wing because it creates negative connotations of what being right-wing is.

When I say I am certainly not a Guardian of left-liberalism and oppose the EU people say I am therefore right-wing and so like the BNP, which I differ from as much as the Guardian.

The Political Compass website shows where they think each of the parties come on the political spectrum.

http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/extremeright.php

It's more socialist/nationalist IMHO.

You make some good points. But you must remember that the BNP is a very ugly organisation that often uses more moderate policies as a shield to deflect negative media attention it receives. Having encountered the BNP on several occasions, I must say that all these words and policies mean very little to the majority of their supporters, who tend to shaven-headed ignorants, who are not the most intelligent members of society. Im not saying that the BNP is stupid, but much of what it advocates is very far right. Some of the things you mentioned, such as a stance against global capitalism are well established principles in Nazism.
I understand that you dont like them being referred to as right-wing. I myslef am an active Conservative Party member and resent being tarred with the same brush as these morons, and a more accurate description would be "far-right" or "fascist." The BNP are one of the more unpleasant aspects of British politics, and it is my view that they should be banned, although I realise this has severe consequences for free speech. They have recently used quite reactionary tactics, trying to use the London Bombings as an excuse to attack the Asian community. They are a dangerous group, who ultimately would like to see the terrorists achieve their goals and cause ethnic tension in Britain. They are a "far-right" party and should be regarded as such.

It's more socialist/nationalist IMHO.
And you don't see that combination very much. That is probobly why people don't make the connection.

However there are a few policys that I would agree to .....

Heh, so obviously the old joke that the BNPs policies can be summarised by "No tax, no blacks" must be wrong >.<

And you don't see that combination very much. That is probobly why people don't make the connection.

or perhaps because they arent really socialists

or perhaps because they arent really socialists

why are they not socialists?

Ultimately though, the BNP doesnt care about economic policies. Your average pundit on the street doesn't think "hmmm a third path between the two extremes of laissez-faire capitalism and socialism would be the most viable economic policy for 21st century Britain", they chose the BNP because (as somebody in Leeds so gracefully put it) "they know how to deal with niggers".
The quasi-socialist mesaures they advocate is their attempt to garner support from the working class and take it away from left-wing movements

Of course facists have to be socialists. A free economy would be the end of their whole progrom.

The Political Compass website shows where they think each of the parties come on the political spectrum.

http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/extremeright.php
Are the lib dems that right wing!?

When I say I am certainly not a Guardian of left-liberalism and oppose the EU people say I am therefore right-wing and so like the BNP, which I differ from as much as the Guardian.

Hi.. New here.

W.I.S.D.= "weighted index of social development" is another way to measure prosperity.

Simple left/right never had much use, it was a historical devision, there have been plenty of command economies which havn't been remotly left wing, there have been left wing economic liberals. Although we still use the tags left and right, they no longer carry much information. Race, culture(!), and immigration are the focus of the BNP, I don't think they swing many votes on their econimic views.

The media often labels the BNP as "right-wing" why? They are fairly centrist racist/nationalists.
Right-wing != centrist

That's a contradiction in terms. You'll find that neo-nazis share a similar family policy with conservatives. Just because their racist and advocate a harsh policy towards foreigners and such, doesn't mean they don't have "centrist" policies. It does mean that they aren't centrist though.

If you visit one of their websites, you'll find that they sound very reasonable. It's their way of trapping new voters by letting them think "They might have a couple idiots, but, hey! they're not all that bad..."

The German NPD has a lot of "reasonable" issues on its website (They made tying women back to the hearth and family sound like they were doing a good thing for them), but in the end, if you read between the lines, you'll find that they aren't reasonable at all.

The BNP is best described as 'Third Positionist' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Third_Position). (Clickie).

They then have all the anti-Islam, anti-black, nationalist, tough on crime stuff but being racist is not exclusive to the political right. It annoys me when the BNP is called right-wing because it creates negative connotations of what being right-wing is.Right wing is conservative, usually more patriotic/nationalist (i.e. more serious about the "homeland"), for the traditional family unit, usually anti-abortion, usually pro-death penalty, pro law-enforcement, and anti-homosexual. You may note that this applies to both the conservatives as the neo-nazis, only to different extremes. In Germany at least, conservatives are usually the ones that accidentally let racist lines slip, or that go hardest against foreigners. It doesn't mean they're evil, it just means they are closer to neo-Nazis than socialists are on most policies.
Right-wing isn't the same as far right, or right-wing extremist, if it makes you feel better... ;)

EH?!?! The BNP are the acceptable face to the National Front. Kick them out the country! If them are just rightwing why dont they preach Civic Nationalism like the Welsh and Scottish nationalist? hmmmm?

why are they not socialists?
Because of their heirarchical world view. They see some people as being better than others.

Of course facists have to be socialists. A free economy would be the end of their whole progrom.
General Pinochet disagrees.

General Pinochet disagrees.What was so "free" about Pinochet's economic practices? He had students shot for not buying school uniforms from his wife's company...

I can't believe there are people here who are trying to defend the BNP.

The BNP suckers new recrutes by sounding interlectual, in fact, the poeple who run it are all VERY cleaver... think 2 PHDs etc. But just the fact that they are cleaver doesn't mean that they are good.

The lesser evil policies just hide the true rasism, sexism, anti-sematic, anti-islam, homophobic, disablisit, anti-equality policies they have.

A BBC reporter once interview the head of the BNP at the time and the transcript is something like this.

Descriptions: BBC reporter: black. well grommed, the type your mum would like
BNP gut: white (as white as you can get), skin head (though being a skin head doesn't mean you are in the BNP, just pointing it out.

BBC: so give me an idea of one of your policies.
BNP: Well we want to send everyone back to wher ethey belong (looking at the reporter intently)
BBC: oh, that would be good.
BNP: What, you agree?
BBC: Yeah, i'd love to go back to Birmingham.
BNP: Waht? no, i meant where you were from origionally.
BBC: Yeah, Birmingham, that's where i was born.
BNP: Well back to where your parents were born.
BBC: Ahhh, Scotland!
BNP: No, back to your country, where you belong. It's obvious you don't belong here.

and so on and forth. Ad norsiatim

Plus it's interesting to note that teh BNP wants to keep our pure blood. Our pure anglo-sexon, romon, norse, greek, european blood!

Nuffers!

Is the BNP far right?

Not according to my personal understanding of politics. You see, at a very basic level political beliefs fall under two categories, "sane" and "crazy". The BNP would fall into the "crazy" category.

;)

[QUOTE=Balericia] If them QUOTE]

:confused: :D

It's more socialist/nationalist IMHO.
Like those? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Program) :confused:

Are the lib dems that right wing!?

I've seen that diagram before and was slightly ruffled by the Lib Dem position. As a Lib Dem supporter and self-proclaimed leftie it gave me pause for thought. I'm still not entirely happy with their position on that chart, but I can sort of see the justification, the LDs are the most left of a right bunch so to speak. I'd like to see a more thorough explaination of the qualifiers from the creators of the diagram!

I can't believe there are people here who are trying to defend the BNP.

The BNP suckers new recrutes by sounding interlectual, in fact, the poeple who run it are all VERY cleaver... think 2 PHDs etc. But just the fact that they are cleaver doesn't mean that they are good.

The lesser evil policies just hide the true rasism, sexism, anti-sematic, anti-islam, homophobic, disablisit, anti-equality policies they have. It's how the Nazis came to power in the Weimar Republic, it's how modern Nazi parties try it today.
There were elections in the German state of Saxony a while back where the NPD (one of our neo-nazi parties) managed to get seats in the state parliament. After the results were in, all parties to have seats in parliament had a representative at the public channels' camera stand. Once the Unteachable started talking of how "the people" had decided that they had enough of the corrupt politics of the past, all the other represenatives got up unanimously and left, which is a consensus amongst all our more respectable parties.

The BNP are a fascist core with a pseudo-left wing political party built around them. Their "policies" only serve to engage people who aren't fascists and spread their hatred. Everywhere they try to organise they use violence and intimidation to stir up racial hatred and distract communities from the real issues. They are extremely authoritarian, nationalist, racist, sexist and homophobic. They do not deserve the freedom of speech they enjoy and that they wish to destory.

I'd like to see a more thorough explaination of the qualifiers from the creators of the diagram!

Well, the site lets you answer questions to show where you appear yourself on the compass. So, I assume they answered their own questions according to what was in the Lib Dem manifesto. But I agree, I'm not entirely comfortable with their position. I'm a Lib Dem supporter and when I answered the questions I came out close to the greens.

Well, the site lets you answer questions to show where you appear yourself on the compass. So, I assume they answered their own questions according to what was in the Lib Dem manifesto. But I agree, I'm not entirely comfortable with their position. I'm a Lib Dem supporter and when I answered the questions I came out close to the greens.

Me too!

They do not deserve the freedom of speech they enjoy and that they wish to destory.

Yet other organisations are, you can't have one rule for one and one for anouther!!!

Ultimately though, the BNP doesnt care about economic policies. Your average pundit on the street doesn't think "hmmm a third path between the two extremes of laissez-faire capitalism and socialism would be the most viable economic policy for 21st century Britain", they chose the BNP because (as somebody in Leeds so gracefully put it) "they know how to deal with niggers".
The quasi-socialist mesaures they advocate is their attempt to garner support from the working class and take it away from left-wing movements
Do the 'majority' of pundits that vote for any party really understand what they stand for. I sit and listed to people who voted for Labour complain about the council tax being revalued, when this was one of the things they said they were going to do, so why the surprise? Because the majority of voters vote the way they do without real thought. Those that vote BNP are no more or less well versed in the party policies.

I'm a Lib Dem supporter and when I answered the questions I came out close to the greens.
Me too!

I guess we're both Greens supporters at heart but realise they haven't got a cat in hells chance of getting in so vote Lib Dem as the next best alternative.

I guess we're both Greens supporters at heart but realise they haven't got a cat in hells chance of getting in so vote Lib Dem as the next best alternative.Makes me glad I live in Germany :D
They're still part of the Government here...

I guess we're both Greens supporters at heart but realise they haven't got a cat in hells chance of getting in so vote Lib Dem as the next best alternative.

So totally true. I voted Green in the European Election last year though. The Lib Dems are in my corner on several key issues though, like electoral reform (as are the Greens) and I do agree with virtually all of their policies.

The BNP have those nice left policies for the same reason that UKIP do, they are both the same, racist and isolationist and need to dress themselves up in order to have a hope of convincing anyone rational to vote for them. To hear any BNP supporter talk, they don't care about the other policies, only the ones about packing all the non-whites off British soil. Can someone remind me of the outcome of those BNPers who were charged with insighting racial hatered?

Makes me glad I live in Germany :D
They're still part of the Government here...
But how long will that last? I'm scared of the possibility of being ruled by this "Große Koalition" thing by the end of the year. Well, but this is actually off-topic.

Can someone remind me of the outcome of those BNPers who were charged with insighting racial hatered?

I know Griffin got bail last month, awaiting trial, but I don't know if that has taken place yet.

But how long will that last? I'm scared of the possibility of being ruled by this "Große Koalition" thing by the end of the year. Well, but this is actually off-topic.Ach, I was emphasizing the fact that not only is it well represented in politics, it is also part of the government.
About the grand coalition, I'm afraid there's nothing much we can do... I'm voting Green anyway, so it doesn't matter. I suppose it's all the darn FDP's fault for not being a good party :p

The BNP have those nice left policies for the same reason that UKIP do, they are both the same, racist and isolationist and need to dress themselves up in order to have a hope of convincing anyone rational to vote for them.

UKIP is not racist or isolationist in any way, what is prejudiced in wanting to leave a union where Britain trades with certain European neighbours and yet it is very difficult to trade with the global community. The UKIP position is outward-looking and its purpose, unlike the EU which exists to protect the old ways of a dying Europe, is to promote Britain as a prosperous dynamic nation in a world economy. The armed forces must buy more expensive, inadequate, French, Italian or German equipment over cheap high quality US stuff, simply because the USA is in a different part of the world: now that is what I call isolationist (to the tune of £5billion).

It is regretable the emphasis UKIP put on immigration in the last election, but they did it because the tories did and they are a Conservative pressure group.

UKIP makes me laugh. They claim to want independence, but have no problem offering Britain up as Americas lap dog.

Ach, I was emphasizing the fact that not only is it well represented in politics, it is also part of the government.Understood, I just wanted to express my vague fears of future developments.
About the grand coalition, I'm afraid there's nothing much we can do... I'm voting Green anyway, so it doesn't matter. I suppose it's all the darn FDP's fault for not being a good party :p Same will most probably I do.

What's the UKIP?

UKIP is not racist or isolationist in any way, what is prejudiced in wanting to leave a union where Britain trades with certain European neighbours and yet it is very difficult to trade with the global community. The UKIP position is outward-looking and its purpose, unlike the EU which exists to protect the old ways of a dying Europe, is to promote Britain as a prosperous dynamic nation in a world economy. The armed forces must buy more expensive, inadequate, French, Italian or German equipment over cheap high quality US stuff, simply because the USA is in a different part of the world: now that is what I call isolationist (to the tune of £5billion).

It is regretable the emphasis UKIP put on immigration in the last election, but they did it because the tories did and they are a Conservative pressure group.You outed yourself with that sentence :D