NationStates Jolt Archive

no, not that kind of thought

I was watching something on the history channel about interpol or somebody taking down an international child pornography ring. they said one of the reasons that child pornography is illegal is that pedophiles that watch it are far more likely to attempt it. (mind you, that might just be how the stats work out - if someone is comfortable enough to try to buy porn they might also be the kind of person who would try other things. but for the sake of argument lets say they're right) so if watching child pornography makes a child molester more likely to be abusive wouldn't watching pornography where women are demeaned or held to ridiculous physical/sexual standards have a similar effect on heterosexual males?

Sounds like your suggesting we do something with the same amount of support as prohibition.

Sounds like your suggesting we do something with the same amount of support as prohibition.

there are alot of things we're never going to be able to stop - does that mean we should give up on trying all together and just tax them? the murder tax?

no, not that kind of thought

I was watching something on the history channel about interpol or somebody taking down an international child pornography ring. they said one of the reasons that child pornography is illegal is that pedophiles that watch it are far more likely to attempt it. (mind you, that might just be how the stats work out - if someone is comfortable enough to try to buy porn they might also be the kind of person who would try other things. but for the sake of argument lets say they're right) so if watching child pornography makes a child molester more likely to be abusive wouldn't watching pornography where women are demeaned or held to ridiculous physical/sexual standards have a similar effect on heterosexual males?

No. The barrier is lower. The penalties for possessing child porn are almost as bad as child rape itself. The penalties for possessing regular porn pale (just some money) in comparison to rape itself.

One of the first things I learned in AP psych -

Correlation does not mean causation.

Just because A goes up when B goes up is not sufficient evidence to say that B causes or has power over A.

And for the record - no. Watching porn may indicate a more liberated sexual point of view or simply horny-ness, but it does not mean that the person is going to go out and do what he sees in the porn video. For example - I play several violent videogames, however I am a pacifist. I look at porn from time to time but I don't rape people. Simply seeing something is not enough to overcome personal morality. Also, on the flipside, banning the seeing of something will not eliminate the drive to do that thing. E.G. there's a ban on cigarette ads on TV, yet thousands of people take up smoking every year.

Also, on the flipside, banning the seeing of something will not eliminate the drive to do that thing. E.G. there's a ban on cigarette ads on TV, yet thousands of people take up smoking every year.

but, fewwer do than did 20 years ago (or so I am lead to believe)

Without getting into the 'define natural', I'd say that most people regard paedophile porn as unnatural and unacceptable. Children cannot make an informed decision whether to engage in sex, neither can they understand the possible consequences. Paedophiles are different in many ways to the rest of us. First, the obvious difference, prefering children to adults. Second, statistics do show that most paedophiles are active and that kiddie-porn enflames them. Third, they care not for the physical and emotional pain they cause. Adult porn has been shown, whether we like it or not, to have the opposite effect on adults, IE, it is a release of a perfectly normal urge and statistics (again) have proven that in a society with freely available porn, sex crimes are lower. There will always be some sick people who watch porn and then commit a criminal sex act.

but, fewwer do than did 20 years ago (or so I am lead to believe)
Let me re quote for you incase you missed the correct causality statement



Just because A goes up when B goes up is not sufficient evidence to say that B causes or has power over A.



That works in reverse too

Just because smoking goes down when smoking advertising does not act as sufficent evidence that smoking advertising causes smoking

but, fewwer do than did 20 years ago (or so I am lead to believe)
Which has nothing to do with the billions we've thrown into anti-tobacco education...

watching alot of porn does desensitize you to sex.

theres a psychological studies that show that..

and if you have a more liberal viewpoints about sex, you might be more prone to commiting sexual assaults.

and of course, theres A BUNCH OF other factors that could contribute to why a person would rape and commit sexual assault, but porn can play a "combination factor" into this i think.

watching alot of porn does desensitize you to sex.

theres a psychological studies that show that..

and if you have a more liberal viewpoints about sex, you might be more prone to commiting sexual assaults.

and of course, theres A BUNCH OF other factors that could contribute to why a person would rape and commit sexual assault, but porn can play a "combination factor" into this i think.
Care to show more evidence then a whole bunch of opinions on the matter?

I have no evidence, I dont remember where i got the study from. :)

I've watched quite a bit of porn but I have almost nothing that is degrading to women. The only example I've seen was a file with a misleading file name that showed a poorly staged rape scene. The average video off the shelf of your friendly neighborhood porn shop isn't terribly degrading. Unless of course fairy princesses, wicked witches and aunties who pinch your cheeks are degrading. They are all shallow depictions. One dimensional but convenient for tell a simple story.

As far as I can tell, kiddie porn is a lot harder to get, right? So a pedophile would have to go out of his/her way to get at the child porn, which would indicate a major interest and a higher probability of going out and doing it (sorry, I know that didn't make a lot of sense, and I can't figure out how to clarify it.)

'Regular' porn on the other hand ('regular' being hetero, threesome or lesbian porn [not excluding gay males, just that I've noticed lesbian porn is more common pleasedon'tflameme] not involving bodily fluids, other species, children, etc. etc.) is quite easy to get ahold of (a friend of mine has been buying it for his friends since he was 12 because he looks older). Thus, the casual porn watcher is unlikely to have gone to much trouble getting it and probably isn't as passionate about the contents.

As far as I can tell, kiddie porn is a lot harder to get, right? So a pedophile would have to go out of his/her way to get at the child porn, which would indicate a major interest and a higher probability of going out and doing it (sorry, I know that didn't make a lot of sense, and I can't figure out how to clarify it.)

'Regular' porn on the other hand ('regular' being hetero, threesome or lesbian porn [not excluding gay males, just that I've noticed lesbian porn is more common pleasedon'tflameme] not involving bodily fluids, other species, children, etc. etc.) is quite easy to get ahold of (a friend of mine has been buying it for his friends since he was 12 because he looks older). Thus, the casual porn watcher is unlikely to have gone to much trouble getting it and probably isn't as passionate about the contents.

I understand that entirely and in the begining I confessed that with out indepth studies to prove this one way or the other that is what makes this such a hypothetical argument

no, not that kind of thought

I was watching something on the history channel about interpol or somebody taking down an international child pornography ring. they said one of the reasons that child pornography is illegal is that pedophiles that watch it are far more likely to attempt it. (mind you, that might just be how the stats work out - if someone is comfortable enough to try to buy porn they might also be the kind of person who would try other things. but for the sake of argument lets say they're right) so if watching child pornography makes a child molester more likely to be abusive wouldn't watching pornography where women are demeaned or held to ridiculous physical/sexual standards have a similar effect on heterosexual males?

I really have to take the stance it depends on how well you are raised parentally. Porn is porn with some people. Just because I like to see bondage picks doesn't mean I am going to do freaky crap in the bed. Some people actually desire to do role play, some people just get exicted watching it. I honestly don't know. I'm not a freak in bed though I have seen freaky stuff on the net. I don't think people have studied sexuality much enough to give a definitive answer to that question.

so if watching child pornography makes a child molester more likely to be abusive wouldn't watching pornography where women are demeaned or held to ridiculous physical/sexual standards have a similar effect on heterosexual males?Not necesarily. The mind of a man who likes kiddie porn is more likely to be irrational than that of a man who likes normal porn. As such, he's probably more likely to act on his fantasies than is a regular porn watcher.

who said a child molestor has to be a man

No one said they have to be men, it was just a statement.

Although I bet that if you look at any sort of arrest statistics, a vast majority of child molestors are male.

I think most of you missed this part: but for the sake of argument lets say they're right

This is a hypothetical question using an environment that we already know beforehand is not the real world but rather an ideal environment for this discussion. This is similar to when scientists assume no other force is acting on an object just so they can illustrate or study something under fictional conditions (although in real world conditions other forces would always be acting on the object).

Let's all pretend that A does cause B even though in real life it doesnt. In that case, I still say porn should not be illegal for that reason. That is the weakest argument for banning child pornography and it is one that the supreme court of the US has spoken out against in various rulings. The most compelling reason (and in my opinion the only valid reason) for banning child porn is that it requires the abuse of children for it to be created in the first place. Things shouldnt be banned because they can lead to something else unless the relationship is 1 to 1 (every single person who does A goes on to do B).