NationStates Jolt Archive

The recent terror attacks on London have given rise to a most complex question. A number of English citizens of Muslim backgrounds played out the bomb strikes. For years the U.K. has aproached the issue of immigration with a multiculturalist stance, that is, immigrant communities could live out their own lifestyles without being encorajed to assimilate themselves into the english society or partaking of its core values. Now many voices have come forward claiming that there is a pressing need to assert core values that must be shared by all citizens of the UK, independent of their religion or race. These opinions hold that the traditional multiculturalist strategie leads to a nation that as no sense of cohesion, where many of its elements don´t fell they owe allegiance to the nation as a whole but rather to their smaller fragmentary identities. So, so you think that this stance is correct? Must the UK (and European countries at large) try to assimilate their immigrant comunities into their fold rather than mantaining a model of a number of diferent racial-religious identities living side-by-side? And how to go about that? Must we come up with a definition of "britisheness" to solve this problem? What could that be? Is multiculturalism really dead? Or can we still make it work?

It was a doomed project to start with. So yes it is dead, and good riddance.

It hasn't died recently. Or I wasn't invited to the funeral, but then again I haven't seen any obituaries anywhere...
Multiculturalism isn't dead. Note that it was only one group in Britain that committed this. The Indian community or the south-east Asians or quite a number of other ethnic minorities were not involved. Every society has its idiots, and judging by how relaxed the British have reacted to the crisis, I doubt that there's any good reason to consider abandoning it as a whole.

The recent terror attacks on London have given rise to a most complex question. A number of English citizens of Muslim backgrounds played out the bomb strikes. For years the U.K. has aproached the issue of immigration with a multiculturalist stance, that is, immigrant communities could live out their own lifestyles without being encorajed to assimilate themselves into the english society or partaking of its core values. Now many voices have come forward claiming that there is a pressing need to assert core values that must be shared by all citizens of the UK, independent of their religion or race. These opinions hold that the traditional multiculturalist strategie leads to a nation that as no sense of cohesion, where many of its elements don´t fell they owe allegiance to the nation as a whole but rather to their smaller fragmentary identities. So, so you think that this stance is correct? Must the UK (and European countries at large) try to assimilate their immigrant comunities into their fold rather than mantaining a model of a number of diferent racial-religious identities living side-by-side? And how to go about that? Must we come up with a definition of "britisheness" to solve this problem? What could that be? Is multiculturalism really dead? Or can we still make it work?

Multiculturalism will die only when immigration and international trade is elimintated. In otherwords, it will never die. However, forcing people to assimilate to one specific way of thinking, speaking and acting will only encourage resentment by those who are forced to conform to someone else's culture.

Well, obviously, you haven't been to Quebec in Canada (like the city of Montreal). If you had, you would know that multiculturalism is still alive and well.

Look at Singapore. While all its Southeast Asian neighbours are fighting within their ethnic groups the citizens of this little island state has no problems with living with coloured, or white or yellow neighbours.

Look at Singapore. While all its Southeast Asian neighbours are fighting within their ethnic groups the citizens of this little island state has no problems with living with coloured, or white or yellow neighbours.

Are white and yellow not colours?

Multiculturalism is certainly not dead in Canada. It's one of the many things we, as Canadians can be proud to call our own (Canada was the first country to have an official multicultural policy).

I think that mutliculturalism is important to a society with so many different cultures living in it because it allows co-operation with the larger community without facing discrimination if you don't "fit" in. It also allows for the diffusion of ideas which is always good for society.

Are white and yellow not colours?

Okay okay. Whatever. Even if your skin has polka dots you'd get along well with Singaporeans - if you think Singaporean, of course. They don't take people by skin colour, but by what band school you came out from and how many certificates you hold.

It isn't dead, unless I killed by accident.

Okay okay. Whatever. Even if your skin has polka dots you'd get along well with Singaporeans - if you think Singaporean, of course. They don't take people by skin colour, but by what band school you came out from and how many certificates you hold.

Band school?

Look at Singapore. While all its Southeast Asian neighbours are fighting within their ethnic groups the citizens of this little island state has no problems with living with coloured, or white or yellow neighbours.

Singapore is a police state. Nice try.

Multiculturalism is like buying a baby alligator. Eventually it grows into something that'll probably kill you.

Band school?

Schools are rated and placed in specific 'bands.' The higher (or lower, I forget which) the band, the better the school.

I don't think Singapore is a very good example. They're fine with people so long as they conform. That's not multiculturalism.

Multiculturalism is not dead, but the danger of Multiculturalism (especially in New Labour's Britain) is that the native culture is actually under threat because the government refuses to be associated with it. I myself am a liberal, but I am concerned by the rise of Political Correctness and the dubbing of tikka massala as the national dish etc. because we may well lose our own roots, which are noble and beautiful roots. I'm sick and tired of people dubbing the English flag xenophobic as well, I mean, it's just a bloody flag.

Multiculturalism is like buying a baby alligator. Eventually it grows into something that'll probably kill you.

Multi-culturalism is the reason you exist.

Multiculturalism is not dead, but the danger of Multiculturalism (especially in New Labour's Britain) is that the native culture is actually under threat because the government refuses to be associated with it. I myself am a liberal, but I am concerned by the rise of Political Correctness and the dubbing of tikka massala as the national dish etc. because we may well lose our own roots, which are noble and beautiful roots. I'm sick and tired of people dubbing the English flag xenophobic as well, I mean, it's just a bloody flag.
Do you believe then that the english governement should activelly support some notion of "britisheness" that all communities in England would have to endow? And what would be included in tis notion of "britisheness"? Respect for women´s rights? Gender equality? Freedom of thought? Knowledge of british national history?

Multiculturalism is not dead, but the danger of Multiculturalism (especially in New Labour's Britain) is that the native culture is actually under threat because the government refuses to be associated with it. I myself am a liberal, but I am concerned by the rise of Political Correctness and the dubbing of tikka massala as the national dish etc. because we may well lose our own roots, which are noble and beautiful roots. I'm sick and tired of people dubbing the English flag xenophobic as well, I mean, it's just a bloody flag.Culture isn't something that stays the same. If you want to go back to your roots, stop using words like oxymoron, surprise, beautiful, grand, joy, onomatopoeia, superficial, and so on.

Do you believe then that the english governement should activelly support some notion of "britisheness" that all communities in England would have to endow? And what would be included in tis notion of "britisheness"? Respect for women´s rights? Gender equality? Freedom of thought? Knowledge of british national history?

Not at all. I'm simply suggesting that minority cultures should not receive preferential treatment. Plus, why would English communities be any more affiliated with 'Britishness' (ugly word, why make it up?) than Welsh or Scottish or Northern Irish ones?

I'm simply arguing the cause that to be proud of one's culture if one is English should no longer be considered small-minded and bigoted by the 'Politically Correct' minority which seems to have a strong grip on the Labour Government.

Culture isn't something that stays the same. If you want to go back to your roots, stop using words like oxymoron, surprise, beautiful, grand, joy, onomatopoeia, superficial, and so on.

You missed my point rather beautifully. Well done. I am very much aware that culture fluctuates, but when the government propounds multiculturalism to the point of a genuinely English/British culture becoming non-existent, then to me that is a problem.

Not at all. I'm simply suggesting that minority cultures should not receive preferential treatment. Plus, why would English communities be any more affiliated with 'Britishness' (ugly word, why make it up?) than Welsh or Scottish or Northern Irish ones?

I'm simply arguing the cause that to be proud of one's culture if one is English should no longer be considered small-minded and bigoted by the 'Politically Correct' minority which seems to have a strong grip on the Labour Government.
But do you believe that currently the imigrant minority comunities in the UK receive preferencial treatement over the majority?

But do you believe that currently the imigrant minority comunities in the UK receive preferencial treatement over the majority?

In what respect?

I believe that affirmative action and similar agendas, as well as New Labour's attitudes towards minority cultures, amount to preferential treatment.

You missed my point rather beautifully. Well done. I am very much aware that culture fluctuates, but when the government propounds multiculturalism to the point of a genuinely English/British culture becoming non-existent, then to me that is a problem.Try and read Beowulf. I doubt you will be able to, even though those are your roots.

Try and read Beowulf. I doubt you will be able to, even though those are your roots.

It gets pretty rough when you go back that far; even Chaucer is difficult at times. Middle High German is somewhat intelligible, but probably more so for a native speaker.

I heard this aired by someone in tv debate just the other day...in a multicultural society, people see themselves firstly as members of a smaller cultural identity and only secomdly as members of the nation-state they live in...so, you habe, in the UK, Muslim who are english and not english who happen to be muslim. Anyone agrees?

Try and read Beowulf. I doubt you will be able to, even though those are your roots.

Anglo-Saxon roots? Genetic studies have shown that the majority of British people are not descended from Anglo-Saxons but from the Romano British and those before them. Second, the Anglo-Saxon 'invasion' and their invitation etc. is now widely regarded as historic inaccuracy. Keep with the times, friend.

It gets pretty rough when you go back that far; even Chaucer is difficult at times. Middle High German is somewhat intelligible, but probably more so for a native speaker.

Chaucer is excellent, love the Pardoner's Tale, but I prefer Shakespeare. Anthony and Cleopatra, just sublime. Although, Beowulf is a fine saga indeed.

Chaucer is excellent, love the Pardoner's Tale, but I prefer Shakespeare. Anthony and Cleopatra, just sublime. Although, Beowulf is a fine saga indeed.

I'd have to agree. :)

I'd have to agree. :)

When I read or preferably listen to Beowulf I experience a different set of emotions. It's more primal, it appeals to something basic. Sagas are like that, I love it even more that you can never really be sure who's responsible for them originally. It makes the whole thing far more archaic. Sagas are primative, but they have their purpose. They remind us of our heroes, and preserve a degree of mysticism about the world. Shakespeare is just perfect, far more refined, but again it depends what one's in the mood for. Chaucer I have to say doesn't quite carry the raw Anglo-Saxon primalism, and isn't quite as refined as SHakespeare so for that reason I don't like it as much. Still like it very much though.

I'd argue that Shakespeare, Chaucer and Beowulf are all important parts of English culture. No less so or more so than the contributions of British-Africans/Asians, which is why I resent the preferential treatment.

Multiculturalism is not dead, NOT!!!

But the Evil Axis joined by the neocon agenda, yihadists, and the depressed neo-nazi youngsters victim of both precedents are a serious menace.

Multi-culturalism is the reason you exist.

Why is that the reason he exists?


Multiculturalism is like buying a baby alligator. Eventually it grows into something that'll probably kill you.

Very amusing, and true.


Multi-culturalism, proves the saying: The road to Hell is made of good intensions.

Most of the ideas that people have as "British" are false. In the end what Britishness is, is what you get when you throw together the several cultures that have invaded or assumed control of these ideals.

If some muslim wants to say he's a muslim and not British, or a Chinease person who lives here wantsw to say he's Chinease and not British, then let him. ITs not harming me. If they take it to another level and start harming people, then kill em, but otherwise, leave 'em alone.

Most of the ideas that people have as "British" are false. In the end what Britishness is, is what you get when you throw together the several cultures that have invaded or assumed control of these ideals.


You are entitled to your beliefs, however incorrect. Britishness is not a real word.

[QUOTE]Why is that the reason he exists?

Very few cultures remain uninfluenced by others. The British culture for example, has been influenced by the acheivemnts of the Greeks, Hebrews, Romans, Spaniards, Portugese, Chinese, French, Arabs etc. As a result, there are very few people in the world today who are not a product of multiculturalism.

Very amusing, and true.

Glad you think so.

Multi-culturalism, proves the saying: The road to Hell is made of good intensions.

If you think the world is hell, you may be right. I prefer to think of it as a place whose greatest challenges can be overcome with reason.