NationStates Jolt Archive

With all the attention about Eye-rack, there is little or no focus on Afghanistan. Now that the elections are near, it is worth paying attention to the country.

It seems like all the tough talk by Bush administration about wiping off the taliban ("dead or alive", "we're gonna smoke 'em outta their holes" etc) are just talks. Taliban ran across the border to Pakistan to welcoming arms, recuperated and is now back. Knowing the mess that they were creating, I was very euphoric when the US invaded Afghanistan to remove taliban even though I had many misgivings about the policy of bribing certain NA commanders (Gen Dostum mainly) and having them fight for the US. And when the Kunduz airlift (http://www.msnbc.com/news/664935.asp?0si=-Prior%20knowledge) happened, it was pretty much known for sure that the taliban will resurface sooner or later, because it was clear that the US was letting them off.

Here's an article written in 2003. The Resurgent Taliban: A Bitter Harvest (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE6-3/bahroo.html)

Only now it is being picked up in western media.

A new Taliban has re-emerged in Afghanistan (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/12418046.htm)

KABUL, Afghanistan — Nearly four years after a U.S.-led military intervention toppled them from power, the Taliban has re-emerged as a potent threat to stability in Afghanistan.

Afghan and Western officials alleged that the escalating insurgency is being aided by Pakistan's powerful military intelligence agency, Inter-Services Intelligence.

Islamabad, they charged, seeks a weak government in Kabul that it can influence. It also wants to keep tensions boiling in Pashtun-dominated areas on the frontier to block a settlement of a decades-old border dispute that the new Afghan Parliament is expected to try to end, they said.

"Pakistan is ... fanning the flames," charged Latfullah Maashal, the chief spokesman of the Afghan Interior Ministry. "The Pakistanis ... do not want to see a strong, peaceful and prosperous country (Afghanistan)."

The Taliban is being allowed to maintain arms depots, training camps and sanctuaries in the lawless tribal belt on Pakistan's side of the frontier, he said.

Islamabad denies the charge, saying it stopped supporting the Taliban after al-Qaida's Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on New York and Washington.

here's more.

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Jul/03/ln/ln01p.html

http://www.afgha.com/?af=article&sid=50090
Spanish Defense Minister Jose Bono said today that authorities are not ruling out the possibility of an attack against the helicopter that crashed in Afghanistan earlier, killing 17 Spanish soldiers on board.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8995278/
Afghan blast kills 2 GIs, wounds 2 others

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8882777/
5th U.S. soldier killed in Afghanistan in a week
Taliban rebels also gun down Afghan woman accused of spying for coalition


And believe it or not, the taliban apparently has a spokesperson in Pakistan who issues statements to media, but apparently the Pakistani army cannot find him. Only the media could.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/GH11Ag03.html
Spreading the Taliban word
In a commentary titled "Who is the Taliban spokesman?" in early August, the government-owned Kabul daily Anis questioned how the militants opposing the Afghan government could have a specific spokesman who is seemingly able to communicate with the media with ease from Pakistan. Calling the freedom of action accredited to the spokesman a controversial matter, Anis asked why he had not been silenced.


It was not until early in 2003 that the Taliban issued a public statement of their intentions. In February 2003, the Peshawar-based Afghan Islamic Press (AIP) cited a fatwa or judgment signed by "Amir al-Mo'menin, the Servant of Islam, Mullah Mohammad Omar Mujahed" as saying that some 1,600 "prominent scholars from around Afghanistan" had adopted two common articles.
[...]
In June, Mohammad Mokhtar Mojahed, purported to be the spokesman for the Taliban, announced the formation of a 10-member leadership council. Three months later, Hamed Agha again reported the establishment of such a council under the chairmanship of Mullah Omar and claimed that he had been appointed as the Taliban spokesman.

Since then, several people have claimed to be speaking on behalf of the Taliban, often in contradictory terms. The list of people who have purported to speak on behalf of the Taliban includes, in addition to Mojahed and Agha: Mullah Abdul Samad, Mohammad Amin, Saif al-Adl, Ustad Mohammad Yasir, and the person mentioned by Anis, Mufti Latifullah Hakimi.

In February 2004, refuting some comments made by al-Adl, the Taliban faxed a statement to several news organizations naming Agha as the movement's only authorized spokesman. Increasingly in 2004, Hakimi emerged as the person speaking for the Taliban and unlike Agha, who usually faxed his statements to news organizations, Hakimi began giving telephone interviews, beginning with Pakistan-based news organizations and then to other outlets, including Western and Kabul-based media.
[...]
Ludin charged that Hakimi had lived in the Pakistani city of Quetta. In its commentary, Anis goes further, charging that Hakimi maintains an office with a "specific" telephone number in Quetta.

Recently the Taliban have not only managed to increase their terrorist and disruptive activities, but have also become bolder in their use of the media.

In April, residents of the southern Afghan city of Kandahar were once again able to hear Sharia Zhagh from what Hakimi claimed were mobile transmitters. Although the radio was no longer detected after a few broadcasts, the fact that the Taliban dared to transmit radio waves, even for few hours, was seen by their supporters as an accomplishment.

The Taliban also flirted with a website in July, though it is no longer accessible.

The area where the Taliban have made great strides is in using outside media to portray themselves as a legitimate opposition group in Afghanistan, not as a terrorist group set on destroying the government, as the US-backed Kabul government claims. Hakimi seems to have no fear of being found through his telephone number and gives almost daily and lengthy interviews to an array of news organizations.

As Anis asks with some surprise, with the available technology to trace the location of telephone calls, why has Hakimi not yet been arrested?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/v-pfriendly/story/334660p-285921c.html
On the opposite hill inside Pakistan, just a few meters away, a Pakistan Army border outpost responded by firing its .50-caliber heavy machine gun straight up in the air - a move that infuriated the Americans taking massive enemy fire. It was a warning that the U.S. soldiers should not try to seek safety on the Pakistan side of the border.

"We were screwed where we were, and we needed to get more people up there," Joy said of his "terrifying" night.

After 40 minutes of the firefight, almost a dozen RPG rounds exploded near the two men, including one that stunned them when it landed on their bunker. Their buddies nearby thought they were dead.

So did the enemy.

"To Allah! To Allah! We took for you," the Islamic jihadis could be heard yelling, they were so close. "We give this mountain back to you!"

http://www.afgha.com/?af=article&sid=49500
Six Afghans beheaded 'by Taleban'

http://www.afgha.com/?af=article&sid=49506
Fresh violence in Afghanistan has left at least 22 police and soldiers dead.

http://www.afgha.com/?af=article&sid=49789
'Taleban' Shoot Dead Afghan Judge

I am hearing from my Afghan friends that taliban is now the de-facto ruler of many souther disctricts bordering Pakistan and that the locals have no choice but to be passive to taliban for fear of being killed. Karzai's writ does not run outside Kabul.

Let's see how their elections go. A lot hangs on how well the elections are held, since it gives legitimacy to Karzai, that he sorely lacks. But the country will never be stable until taliban is not wiped out from its source, Pakistan. Something neither Musharraf nor Bush seems to be doing. So, the taliban will live and harass Afghanis and so it goes on. What a shame. Even after 9/11. sigh.

It just shows how much Shrub is focused on the "War on Terror." I'm surprised there hasn't been the usual parade of NationStates Busheviks posting in personal attacks and apologies for Il Duh-ce.

I can see it now. Solution: Invade Afghanistan, again! I mean if one war is good, two is better. Like with Germany, we had to have two wars with them. Same with Iraq. We fought the British at least in two wars. I'm surprised we haven't invaded Panama again.

:rolleyes: The taliban are fucked no matter what you guys say. They won't win. The elections are already on track, and the taliban have tried to come back. Their membership has been decimated. They had to resort recruiting 14 or 15 year olds.

:rolleyes: The taliban are fucked no matter what you guys say. They won't win. The elections are already on track, and the taliban have tried to come back. Their membership has been decimated. They had to resort recruiting 14 or 15 year olds.


Did you even read the first post? Nice job at not refuting it with any facts whatsoever. What do you have to back up such statements?

Did you even read the first post? Nice job at not refuting it with any facts whatsoever. What do you have to back up such statements?

I'm not the one wanting and screaming for failure like those people protesting Bush at Crawford.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=971364&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

KABUL, Afghanistan Jul 24, 2005 — Fierce fighting in recent months has devastated the ranks of the Taliban, prompting the rebels to recruit children and force some families to provide one son to fight with them, a U.S. commander said Saturday.

The fighting has fractured the Taliban's command structure, preventing the militants from regrouping, even though there has been an upsurge in violence, Maj. Gen. Jason Kamiya, the U.S. military operational commander in Afghanistan, told The Associated Press in an interview.

Despite the setback more than 500 rebels have been killed since March the militants are likely to step up attacks in the lead-up to crucial Sept. 18 legislative elections, he said.

---

Thank you. This is from a General on the ground, not armchair journalists. There is no upsurge in taliban membership meaning the militants are not regrouping because they are not able to.

thank you - finally - that looks like good news you've posted. i'm glad you could find somethign rather than make statements with nothign to back you up.

now please show me where those in crawford were screaming for failure.

thank you - finally - that looks like good news you've posted. i'm glad you could find somethign rather than make statements with nothign to back you up.

now please show me where those in crawford were screaming for failure.

I back myself up often. I just like quoting someone who knows what the hell they are talking about.

Um, the crawford protesters are for another thread. Sorry for bringing that up.

I back myself up often. I just like quoting someone who knows what the hell they are talking about.

Um, the crawford protesters are for another thread. Sorry for bringing that up.

Hmm...So it looks like this upsurge in violence and increased recruitment is because of the fractures within the Taliban command?

If they disintigrate, that's good news, but if they turn into a collection of small, rabid groups with nothing to lose, things will turn ugly in the borderlands. I hope there is something other than pure military action being taken over there.

Dont worry, there are New Zealand SAS troops in Afghanistan, they can keep it under control :D

None in Iraq though, so your screwed




(btw, this post may not be enitirely serious)

Hmm...So it looks like this upsurge in violence and increased recruitment is because of the fractures within the Taliban command?

If they disintigrate, that's good news, but if they turn into a collection of small, rabid groups with nothing to lose, things will turn ugly in the borderlands. I hope there is something other than pure military action being taken over there.

No. Read the article I posted more slowly.

They had to resort to recruiting children. Their tactics are failing. They are falling apart. Most of their leadership is gone. They haven't been able to re-group.

<snip>

Sorry to be entirely pesimistic, but do you completely trust what an American General said in an interveiw??

I mean the American Military hasn't been 100% truthful alot of the time during this war

Sorry to be entirely pesimistic, but do you completely trust what an American General said in an interveiw??

I mean the American Military hasn't been 100% truthful alot of the time during this war

I trust them a hell lot more then some armchair journalists.

First off this General is on the ground and is a hundred times more reliable then some journalists. And you need to back yourself up. The american military is doing a great job and has wiped out much ot the taliban... they have very little leadership left.

With all the attention about Eye-rack, there is little or no focus on Afghanistan. Now that the elections are near, it is worth paying attention to the country.

It seems like all the tough talk by Bush administration about wiping off the taliban ("dead or alive", "we're gonna smoke 'em outta their holes" etc) are just talks. Taliban ran across the border to Pakistan to welcoming arms, recuperated and is now back. Knowing the mess that they were creating, I was very euphoric when the US invaded Afghanistan to remove taliban even though I had many misgivings about the policy of bribing certain NA commanders (Gen Dostum mainly) and having them fight for the US. And when the Kunduz airlift (http://www.msnbc.com/news/664935.asp?0si=-Prior%20knowledge) happened, it was pretty much known for sure that the taliban will resurface sooner or later, because it was clear that the US was letting them off.

Here's an article written in 2003. The Resurgent Taliban: A Bitter Harvest (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE6-3/bahroo.html)

Only now it is being picked up in western media.

A new Taliban has re-emerged in Afghanistan (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/12418046.htm)





here's more.

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Jul/03/ln/ln01p.html

http://www.afgha.com/?af=article&sid=50090
Spanish Defense Minister Jose Bono said today that authorities are not ruling out the possibility of an attack against the helicopter that crashed in Afghanistan earlier, killing 17 Spanish soldiers on board.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8995278/
Afghan blast kills 2 GIs, wounds 2 others

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8882777/
5th U.S. soldier killed in Afghanistan in a week
Taliban rebels also gun down Afghan woman accused of spying for coalition


And believe it or not, the taliban apparently has a spokesperson in Pakistan who issues statements to media, but apparently the Pakistani army cannot find him. Only the media could.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/GH11Ag03.html
Spreading the Taliban word


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/v-pfriendly/story/334660p-285921c.html


http://www.afgha.com/?af=article&sid=49500
Six Afghans beheaded 'by Taleban'

http://www.afgha.com/?af=article&sid=49506
Fresh violence in Afghanistan has left at least 22 police and soldiers dead.

http://www.afgha.com/?af=article&sid=49789
'Taleban' Shoot Dead Afghan Judge

I am hearing from my Afghan friends that taliban is now the de-facto ruler of many souther disctricts bordering Pakistan and that the locals have no choice but to be passive to taliban for fear of being killed. Karzai's writ does not run outside Kabul.

Let's see how their elections go. A lot hangs on how well the elections are held, since it gives legitimacy to Karzai, that he sorely lacks. But the country will never be stable until taliban is not wiped out from its source, Pakistan. Something neither Musharraf nor Bush seems to be doing. So, the taliban will live and harass Afghanis and so it goes on. What a shame. Even after 9/11. sigh.

Fox news says it's under control. So you're wrong.

They had to resort to recruiting children.

Does that means that they are less of a threat?

The LTTE also recruits children. Does that mean they have fallen apart?

Their tactics are failing.

Depends on what you call their tactic.

To me their tactics have succeeded.

They DID manage to disperse successfulyy and they DID manage to flee across the borders to safe haven in Pakistan. They are now carrying out hit and run attacks with impunity. They DO control Zabul, Kandahar, Helmand and Uruzgan provinces. Their ideological support has not eroded but it has indeed grown. It was on this support that the MMA parties of NWFP, the ideological backers of taliban came to power and are now the ruling party of the province.

If you think that you have defeated taliban, you are sorely mistaken. There are many where they come from.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_17-5-2005_pg7_44
“My base, where I live, is in Khost province, and I will say, absolutely, there are insurgents coming across the border from Pakistan attacking into Khost, then returning back into Pakistan,” Colonel Gary Cheek told a news conference.

That's a colonel on the ground.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F50916F63F5C0C778CDDAF0894DD404482

Despite Years of U.S. Pressure, Taliban Fight On in Jagged Hills

GAZEK KULA, Afghanistan - For weeks, sightings of Taliban fighters were being reported all over the rugged mountains here. But when Staff Sgt. Patrick Brannan and his team of scouts drove into a nearby village to investigate a complaint of a beating, they had no idea that they were stumbling into the biggest battle of their lives.

On May 3, joined by 10 local policemen and an interpreter, the scouts turned up at a kind of Taliban convention - of some 60 to 80 fighters - and were greeted by rockets and gunfire. The sergeant called for reinforcements and was told to keep the Taliban engaged until they arrived. "I've only got six men," he remembers saying.

For the next two and a half hours, he and his small squad, who had a year of experience in Iraq, cut off a Taliban escape. Nearly 40 Taliban and one Afghan policeman were killed. "It's not supposed to be like that here," said Capt. Mike Adamski, a battalion intelligence officer. "It's the hardest fight I saw, even after Iraq."

During the last six months, American and Afghan officials have predicted the collapse of the Taliban, the hard-line Islamists thrown out of power by American forces in 2001, citing their failure to disrupt the presidential election last October and a lack of activity last winter.

But the intensity of the fighting here in Zabul Province, and in parts of adjoining Kandahar and Uruzgan Provinces - roughly 100 square miles of mountain valleys in all - reveals the Taliban to be still a vibrant fighting force supplied with money, men and weapons.

The May 3 battle was part of an almost forgotten war in the most remote corners of Afghanistan, a strange and dangerous campaign that is part cat-and-mouse game against Taliban forces and part public relations blitz to win over wary villagers still largely sympathetic to the Taliban.

An Afghan informer, who did not want his name used for fear of retribution, has told American forces that the Taliban ranks have been rapidly replenished by recruits who slipped in from Pakistan. For every one of the Taliban killed on May 3, judging by his account, another has arrived to take his place.

Sgt. First Class Kyle Shuttlesworth, 45, a veteran soldier who is counting the days to retirement, said that the American forces here had tracked many men infiltrating from Pakistan, but that since they crossed unarmed, the Americans had no cause to detain them. "We are trying to work out where they get their weapons," he said.

Some in the area accused Pakistan of fueling the insurgency. Though ostensibly an American ally, Pakistan is viewed with suspicion here by some American military and Afghan officials for its failure to stem the flow of Taliban recruits.

"The Taliban will be finished when there is no foreign interference," said Mullah Zafar Khan, the Deychopan district chief. He blamed mullahs and others in Pakistan for inveigling young people into join the fight. "Pakistan is giving them the wrong information and telling them to go and do jihad," he said. The governor of the province, Delbar Jan Arman, said the answer was to unite the local tribes and strengthen the government, since the Taliban were profiting from a power vacuum. "The reason is not that the Taliban are strong," he said. "The government is not so strong in these areas."


Most of their leadership is gone.

The Amir-ul-Momineen is still alive and well. Nobody can dare touch him.

Most of their top leadership is actually intact. Not even a SINGLE top taliban has been arrested. I don't consider Muttawakil as a top leader. He was a joker and a nobody in the taliban hierarchy and he was released by US when they realised it. Actually Mohammed Yasir, an aide to the Mullah Omar, was arrested some days back. And that's about it. 4 years and one aide. Even the aide, I am sure, won't be tried or convicted.

Depends on what you call their tactic.

To me their tactics have succeeded.

They DID manage to disperse successfulyy and they DID manage to flee across the borders to safe haven in Pakistan. They are now carrying out hit and run attacks with impunity. They DO control Zabul, Kandahar, Helmand and Uruzgan provinces. Their ideological support has not eroded but it has indeed grown. It was on this support that the MMA parties of NWFP, the ideological backers of taliban came to power and are now the ruling party of the province.

Their tactics are failing.

You don't know what you're talking about. Their ideological support has declined after 500 fighters have been killed. Their support is falling apart. Keep in mind there were elements of the taliban that were more moderate, and those people should be able to come back to society. If they do wrong, I would have no problem with them being arrested and hanged.

If you think that you have defeated taliban, you are sorely mistaken. There are many where they come from.

You are the one sorely mistaken. They will be crushed like the dogs they are.



Still a heck lot more credible then you and your armchair journalists.

[quote]
Most of their top leadership is actually intact. Not even a SINGLE top taliban has been arrested. I don't consider Muttawakil as a top leader. He was a joker and a nobody in the taliban hierarchy and he was released by US when they realised it. Actually Mohammed Yasir, an aide to the Mullah Omar, was arrested some days back. And that's about it. 4 years and one aide. Even the aide, I am sure, won't be tried or convicted.

No. No and NO! Most of their top leadership is either dead, or in hiding (whatever is left of it). You don't know what you are saying. Facts:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/01/24/pakistan.taliban/ (Thanks to Pakistan)

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20050818-1145-security-pakistan.html (They did it again, reported just a few days ago)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,141417,00.html

You want more of a smack down, or had you enough of my wraith?

http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,10075598%255E1702,00.html

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/11/06/taliban.arrest/

http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/print.asp?ArticleID=40681 (not sure if I mentioned him before, but another senior official)

I love exposing big fat lies. :mad:

From one of your own links that i picked at random Mesatecala,

Quote:
"Taliban-led militants have mounted a string of deadly attacks on Afghan troops and officials as well as aid workers and organisers of the country's landmark elections, expected in September or October.

US and Afghan forces charged with preventing the guerrillas derailing the vote claim to have killed about 100 rebels in the south of the country since late May, the bloodiest fighting in almost a year"

Yeah, sure sounds like they're whipped alright :rolleyes: In the 'death throes' as well i suppose.

Well if as you purport, they are failing and will be' crushed like dogs'.... may i ask ...when?

Its been what..4 years now? Seems either they ain't going away at all....or the US military alongwith the 'Coalition of the Willing' is incompetent and inept in its actions in Afghanistan. Which seems more likely to you?

Brits got whooped, Russians got whooped, and the US will too. Does no one pay any attention to history anymore....
:( :( :(

Iraq now receives the most attention from the media. Your government thinks that through the public will forget about the continuing quagmire in Afghanistan, and to be frank, many would have.

Anyone see that show "here's one we invaded earlier"?

I can see it now. Solution: Invade Afghanistan, again! I mean if one war is good, two is better. Like with Germany, we had to have two wars with them. Same with Iraq. We fought the British at least in two wars. I'm surprised we haven't invaded Panama again.
I remember leafing through a textbook on British colonial history several years ago, in my final year of school. There was a chapter "The First Afghan War". A bit later, "The Second Afghan War". A bit later, "The Third Afghan War". Subsequent events along those lines didn't even get names, as it became too embarrassing. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I don't see how you can invade Afghanistan again, since you're still in there.

Anyway, I don't see how you can invade Afghanistan again, since you're still in there.

Hmm. Well, we finally pulled out of Germany. That means we can invade the Nazi's again! Cuz teh USA r0x0rz like that.

I can see it now. Solution: Invade Afghanistan, again! I mean if one war is good, two is better. Like with Germany, we had to have two wars with them. Same with Iraq. We fought the British at least in two wars. I'm surprised we haven't invaded Panama again.

Wasn't it Patton who said "I don't like paying for the same piece of real estate twice."?

The Taliban, while potent, is nothing like it was even after their fall. They have no significant influence over the cities, and their grip on the countryside is often tentative. Furthermore, unlike in Iraq, with many (if not all) people friendly to the insurgency, here, the Taliban has no friends. They get new recruits by threatening to kill entire villages if the boys don't enlist. The real problem is still warlords, though Kabul is slowly gaining control of Afghanistan now that it has a proper army.

Their tactics are failing.

You don't know what you're talking about. Their ideological support has declined after 500 fighters have been killed. Their support is falling apart.

:headbang:

Their support is not falling apart in Afghanistan (apart from certain disrticts in the south) , because they never had one in the first place.

The taliban's recruition is now made up of mostly pushtuns from the other side of Durrand line. Their support base and the jihad factory there is intact.

So you kill 500 of them and you think their ideological support will decline ?

There are many where they come from.



Keep in mind there were elements of the taliban that were more moderate,

moderate taliban :confused:

Now there's an oxymoron. :D


Still a heck lot more credible then you and your armchair journalists.


:confused:

Did you even read the post. You said that a general's word has more credibility. So I posted the quote from Colonel Gary Cheek to porve that the taliban is still a force to be reckoned with. And you thought what ? Please read the posts before replying to it.



No. No and NO! Most of their top leadership is either dead, or in hiding (whatever is left of it). You don't know what you are saying. Facts:


:rolleyes:
The taliban top leadership of Mullah Omar (Chief of Shura), Jalaluddin Haqqani, Mullah Beradar, Mullah Dadullah Kakar, Mullah Akhtar Usmani, Mullah Abdus Razzaq, Mullah Kabir, Mullah Saifur Rehman, Qari Akhtar, Mullah Obaidullah Akhund, Mullah Mohammed Ibrahim are all alive and well and nothing has been done to capture or liquidate them. Pakistan does not dare touch them. American does not dare push the Pakistanis to touch them. That is the reality.

Let's examine your links.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/01/24/pakistan.taliban/ (Thanks to Pakistan)

Maulvi Abdul Mannan Khawajazai, governor of Badghais province under the Taliban was arrested in January 24, 2004. The report says that the authorities are hopeful of extracting information from him about the whereabouts of Mullah Omar.

It is August 2005 and they are still extracting....

Btw, Badghis is a province bordering Turkmenistan. The guy probably has never met Mullah Omar and was not part of a top leadership.


http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20050818-1145-security-pakistan.html (They did it again, reported just a few days ago)

And I mentioned it in my post just above. You are not reading.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,141417,00.html

A military commander and his deputy and you call them top leadership. The commanders are dime a dozen. Heck everybody calls himself a commander in the taliban rank. The taliban rank system is not like other professional militaries and they mean jacksh1t.


You want more of a smack down, or had you enough of my wraith?

LOL.

http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,10075598%255E1702,00.html

A commander. See above.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/11/06/taliban.arrest/

A taliban spokesman. The guy is even lesser than Muttawakil who was the top envoy and he himself was released by US because he was a nobody in the taliban top hierarchy.

http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/print.asp?ArticleID=40681 (not sure if I mentioned him before, but another senior official)

Ah! Muttawakil. You are not reading at all.


I love exposing big fat lies.

You have exposed only yourselves.

Oh and google does not tell you everything. Try reading and get the names correct atleast. The GIs and Afghans who die there deserve that much.

Don't just google for "Top taliban arrested" and post the links from the first page.

Read the report. See who was arrested. Take the name and google for the name again. You would come to know that nothing has happened after the arrest.

:headbang:

Their support is not falling apart in Afghanistan (apart from certain disrticts in the south) , because they never had one in the first place.

The taliban's recruition is now made up of mostly pushtuns from the other side of Durrand line. Their support base and the jihad factory there is intact.

So you kill 500 of them and you think their ideological support will decline ?

There are many where they come from.

You sir are dead wrong. Since 500 of them have been killed most of their ranks have been wiped out. And you have poor excuses for each one of those links.. oh it is just a lower ranking official, oh he's a nobody.. cut the crap. Their support base is not intact.

moderate taliban :confused:

Now there's an oxymoron. :D




:confused:

You're confused about everything. No wonder why you don't have a grasp on the issues.


It is August 2005 and they are still extracting....

Stupid response. Work on it more. They still arrested him.


Btw, Badghis is a province bordering Turkmenistan. The guy probably has never met Mullah Omar and was not part of a top leadership.

Prove it.


And I mentioned it in my post just above.[/B] You are not reading.

No, you need to admit you're wrong.


A military commander and his deputy and you call them top leadership. The commanders are dime a dozen. Heck everybody calls himself a commander in the taliban rank. The taliban rank system is not like other professional militaries and they mean jacksh1t.

These guys are in the top leadership according to the article, and I'm going by the article rather then the lies that come out of your mouth. I also sense a tendency on your part to wish for failure.


A commander. See above.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/11/06/taliban.arrest/

A taliban spokesman. The guy is even lesser than Muttawakil who was the top envoy and he himself was released by US because he was a nobody in the taliban top hierarchy.

You always weasel your way out of the facts don't you?


Oh and google does not tell you everything. Try reading and get the names correct atleast. The GIs and Afghans who die there deserve that much.

You want more GIs and Afghans to die because apparently you want failure. Well your issue is you got your rear end handed to you by me and you try to weasel your way out of the facts.

Note to self : Don't wrestle with pigs in the mud. In the end you will come off dirty and the pig will have had a good time.

I can see it now. Solution: Invade Afghanistan, again! I mean if one war is good, two is better. Like with Germany, we had to have two wars with them. Same with Iraq. We fought the British at least in two wars. I'm surprised we haven't invaded Panama again.
Better, restation the troops and actually do the "smoking out" properly... (I wonder what kind of smoke-in one could do with all the opium fields in full bloom :D)

Most of Afghanistan is still controlled by the war lords. And then something really noteworthy happened - the focus from the "War on Terror" in Afghanistan shifted to that pseudo-"War on Terror" (or whatnot) in Iraq. Talk about getting the priorities right, huh?

As for the German history: You guys returned 'cause after you left when WWI was over, the blame and cost was unequally distributed, hence the rise of the Nazis and the Third Reich which fell on very fertile ground.
Can't really complain much about how our country turned out (although some people here on NS think it was about time for Germany to start playing the Marches again whenever Uncle Sam wants us too - glad we don't!!!).

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/us-fury-at-wildwest-militants-fleeing-to-pakistan/2005/08/21/1124562750249.html?oneclick=true


US fury at wild-west militants who flee back to Pakistan
By Paul McGeough, Chief Herald Correspondent in Kabul
August 22, 2005


It should have been a slam dunk. In Afghanistan's eastern border region, US troops say they photographed Taliban fighters firing a rocket-launcher at them from the safety of the Pakistani side - within sight of a Pakistani military observation post.

But a frustrated US military official in Kabul explains: "We thought we had them.

"But when we showed the pictures in Islamabad they said, 'We saw nothing.' It's the same when we call on our direct communications lines to say we're chasing the Taliban over the border - they see us coming and they refuse to pick up the phone," he said, speaking anonymously.

Islamabad's failure to stem the rising flood of Taliban and al-Qaeda fighters on deadly cross-border forays from Pakistan's wild west has sapped US hopes of defeating the infiltrators any time soon. And it has reduced relations between Islamabad and Kabul to an icy low.

More than 700 Afghans and 45 Americans have died as border raids intensified since the northern winter. This is all the more puzzling because Pakistan says it has sent 74,000 troops to the border region to rein them in.

Despite superficial civility and an aid cheque for $US100 million ($133 million) from Islamabad, a spokesman for Afghanistan's President, Hamid Karzai, recently told reporters: "All the weapons, ammunition, budgets, money transfer systems and safe havens for terrorists are located in Pakistan."

Afghan officials suspect parts of Pakistan's military and intelligence services that are loyal to the Taliban have been training the fighters to use more sophisticated remote-controlled bombs.

Pakistan denies Afghan claims that a system of extremist training camps operates in Pakistan. But Zulfiqar Ali, a Pakistani journalist, reported visiting such a camp. Men and boys as young as 13 took an 18-day "ideological orientation" and weapons training.

After September 11, 2001, Pakistan's President, Pervez Musharraf, promised to crack down on terrorist fighters in Pakistan and the fundamentalist schools, madrassas, which indoctrinate their foot soldiers.

General Musharraf repeated the promises after the revelation of Pakistan's links to last month's London bombings. After a Central Asia analyst, Ahmed Rashid, challenged General Musharraf last week, the President said he had arrested 800 militants and deported 1400 foreigners at Pakistani madrassas since the London attacks. He argued his hands had previously been tied - by confrontation with India, local elections or global or domestic political insecurities. But he insisted: "The situation is now far different from what I faced before. Now I'm much stronger."

But General Musharraf's admission his Government would no longer distinguish between "terrorists" seemed to confirm analysts' views that Islamabad deals with them selectively.

The analysts say there is zero-tolerance for non-Pakistani militants - mostly Arab and Central Asian - who seem to be deftly weeded from among home-grown militants who have done Islamabad's dirty work in the disputed territory of Kashmir. And in Afghanistan many in the Pakistani security forces believe the militants will be needed as a "moderate Taliban" to step in when, as they suspect, the Karzai Government in Kabul collapses.

Despite General Musharraf's promises, the gunmen and the bombers keep arriving in Afghanistan, and only a few hundred of the estimated 15,000 madrassas in Pakistan have complied with his demand that they register with the authorities. All that, he says, is about to change.

NATO's civilian representative in Kabul and a former Turkish foreign minister, Hikmet Cetin, said last week: "The madrassas in Pakistan remain a critical issue. The border between these countries is 2400 kilometres and very mountainous. It's very difficult to patrol, and with 2 million Afghan refugees still in Pakistan it's easy for them to bring the Taliban ideology back here when they come home."

The recent discovery of four remote-controlled bombs in the border region in an Afghan taxi passenger's baggage underscored his point. Afghan police say the man confessed to entering the country with four Pakistanis after being trained at Shamshatu, which is home to a big United Nations-run refugee camp for Afghans near Peshawar, just over the border in Pakistan.

The new US ambassador to Kabul, Ronald Neumann, said last week: "We are urging the Government of Pakistan to take all possible action to control extremism. We'll work with both countries to bring about better relations and institutions to fight terrorism. I think we are having some success."

The US military official speaking on condition on anonymity spoke more bluntly. "We are looking for commitment - we've seen none in the last 12 months. All they do is arrest someone on the eve of an official US visit to Islamabad, and they release them once we've left town."

Most US criticism of the ease with which the Taliban slip away into Pakistan has been confined to soldier level in the US forces. They are often forced to halt while in hot pursuit when they come to what they believe is the border. Known as the Durand Line, the 1893 British-drawn frontier is ill-defined and disputed.

The US military officer seemed to share his men's frustration, exclaiming: "Anyway, where is the f---ing Durand Line?"


I don't think Pakistan is really doing what is necessary to support the US, I don't really see a problem in this case with shifting our primary support to India in this case, since they are far more willing to assist us, and would be a useful counterbalance to China if war was to break out.

We are not finished. All of these countries support one another against those who do not join their ideology. All of them. Iraq and Afghanistan are good starts. We now have Iran from both sides. Pakistan from both sides. Syria and Turkey from both sides. Now that we have everyone surrounded, we should go in from all sides and take care of all of them, because all of them are at war against us, especially when they pretend they are trying to make peace.

This has to be done in the correct order, but it has to be done quickly and without hesitation. Pakistan will be difficult because they have nuclear weapons. Iran will have nuclear weapons too if we waste time. Iran has been the most important piece of the puzzle ever since we developed them in order to get around the Nazis while shipping resources to the Siberia. After that war, we fought the Soviets over control of the area and whatever side Iran took, the rest of the Middle East followed. Iran puts the middle in the Middle East. Iran connects the Eastern East with the Western East. Pakistan and all the other –stans with Iraq, Syria, Turkey and all of the other Ottoman Relics. When we lost Iran to religious fundamentalism, the entire Middle East followed. The communists in Pakistan are sinking slowly and passed Nuclear technology to Iran. Iran is trying to take that and lead the Middle East in to a Nuclear Jihad. If they cross this line, they will blackmail the non-Islamic world in to slow death, which will eventually become a full fledged nuclear war.

America is the best country to deal with this. America can afford to use precision strikes and then ground forces. Plow through and clean up whatever has to be cleaned up. It is a lot easier to take over and destroy a place than to rebuild it and force civilization on people who do not want it. If America does not do this, someone else will. That someone else can certainly destroy Iran, but they can not afford to be precise about it. If that someone else has to stop Iran from becoming a nuclear power, their only option will be technologically intensive and thorough.

we should go in from all sides and take care of all of them, because all of them are at war against us, especially when they pretend they are trying to make peace.

And how many days do you think the Administration would have till they get impeached?

America can afford to use precision strikes and then ground forces.

Only because we gave up on the national debt...

When we lost Iran to religious fundamentalism, the entire Middle East followed. <snip>
It is a lot easier to take over and destroy a place than to rebuild it and force civilization on people who do not want it.
:rolleyes:
Probably if the US had not deposed the democratically elected Mosadegh and install the Shah, the revolution would never have happened and Iran would not have been "lost".

But hey, let's spread civilization to the heathens..err....democracy to the muslims..

Meanwhile, this just in.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/21/international/middleeast/21afghanistan-wire.html?ei=5094&en=e4039e5e79834e19&hp=&ex=1124683200&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print

Roadside Bomb Kills 4 U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) -- A roadside bomb killed four U.S. soldiers and wounded three others Sunday as they were patrolling in southern Afghanistan, the deadliest attack on American forces here in nearly two months, the U.S. military said.

Militant assaults elsewhere killed a senior pro-government Islamic leader and two Afghan policemen, as Taliban-led rebels step up a campaign to subvert key Sept. 18 legislative elections. Seven U.S. soldiers have been killed in Afghanistan over the past four days.

Sunday's blast that killed U.S. troops occurred in Zabul province's Daychopan district, the military said in a statement. The three wounded soldiers were hit by shrapnel and were in stable condition, the military said.

"The unit was conducting offensive operations in support of an ongoing mission to find and defeat enemy forces in the area when the attack occurred," the statement said. "The unit's mission is part of a much larger operation to disrupt enemy forces and to thereby provide a safe environment for upcoming September elections."

The statement quoted Maj. Gen. Jason Kamiya, the U.S.-led coalition's operational commander, as saying the attack would "strengthen, not weaken, the resolve" of the force.

Some 187 U.S. service members have been killed in and around Afghanistan since the start of Operation Enduring Freedom in late 2001 -- including 64 during an upsurge of insurgent attacks in the last six months that have also left about 1,000 others dead.

On Friday, a U.S. Marine was killed in a clash near Asadabad in eastern Afghanistan, while a day earlier, a roadside bomb killed two U.S. soldiers as they were protecting road workers on a U.S.-funded project in southern Kandahar province, a former Taliban stronghold.

U.S. officials have warned that fighting could escalate ahead of the parliamentary and provincial assembly elections, seen as the next step in building Afghanistan's democracy after a quarter-century of civil strife and war.

In attacks elsewhere, a roadside bomb exploded late Saturday under a police vehicle also in Zabul province, killing two police officers, said local government chief Rozi Khan.

In southern Kandahar province Sunday, gunmen riding a motorbike shot dead cleric Mawlawi Abdullah, the latest in a string of attacks on religious leaders who have openly condemned the Taliban and other extremists.

Abdullah -- a senior figure in the Islamic Ulama Council -- and a colleague were killed as they walked out of a mosque after praying at dawn, Interior Ministry official Dad Mohammed Rasa said.

In the eastern province of Kunar, rebels ambushed two tanker trucks hauling fuel to an American military base, burning the vehicles but letting the drivers go, officials said.


Mark my words. As election nears, the violence will increase. Already IEDs and roadside bombs are making appearance. Anti-taliban mullahs are being targetted. The worst thing is that I hear that Packee madrassas are being closed down for the occasion. No, not for voting. But for :mp5:

:rolleyes: The taliban are fucked no matter what you guys say. They won't win. The elections are already on track, and the taliban have tried to come back. Their membership has been decimated. They had to resort recruiting 14 or 15 year olds.


Psst. The taliban is from Pakistan. So unless we clear them out of there, they are hardly fucked. They will continue the fight.....

The Taliban were no long news worthy enough for Mr. Bush so he moved on to Saddam who according to CNN is 'selling his soul' *



may have taken quote out of context

Psst. The taliban is from Pakistan. So unless we clear them out of there, they are hardly fucked. They will continue the fight.....

:fluffle:

Succint. You summed up my opening post. Mind if I ask you where you are from ?

Mekonia

The Taliban were no long news worthy enough for Mr. Bush so he moved on to Saddam

Yeah and there is more to it. They were no longer attack-worthy, if you assume the objective was to remove any threat of more attacks on the homeland and to perpetuate American primacy and domination (the stated goal as per the leaked Wolfowitz doctrine) and not democracy, freedom and such assorted rhetoric from the Bush administration.

Ask yourself this question.

In another 3 weeks, it is going to be four years after 9/11. Why is Bin Laden, Zawahiri and Mullah Omar still alive ?

We are not finished. All of these countries support one another against those who do not join their ideology. All of them. Iraq and Afghanistan are good starts. We now have Iran from both sides. Pakistan from both sides. Syria and Turkey from both sides. Now that we have everyone surrounded, we should go in from all sides and take care of all of them, because all of them are at war against us, especially when they pretend they are trying to make peace.

This has to be done in the correct order, but it has to be done quickly and without hesitation. Pakistan will be difficult because they have nuclear weapons. Iran will have nuclear weapons too if we waste time. Iran has been the most important piece of the puzzle ever since we developed them in order to get around the Nazis while shipping resources to the Siberia. After that war, we fought the Soviets over control of the area and whatever side Iran took, the rest of the Middle East followed. Iran puts the middle in the Middle East. Iran connects the Eastern East with the Western East. Pakistan and all the other –stans with Iraq, Syria, Turkey and all of the other Ottoman Relics. When we lost Iran to religious fundamentalism, the entire Middle East followed. The communists in Pakistan are sinking slowly and passed Nuclear technology to Iran. Iran is trying to take that and lead the Middle East in to a Nuclear Jihad. If they cross this line, they will blackmail the non-Islamic world in to slow death, which will eventually become a full fledged nuclear war.

America is the best country to deal with this. America can afford to use precision strikes and then ground forces. Plow through and clean up whatever has to be cleaned up. It is a lot easier to take over and destroy a place than to rebuild it and force civilization on people who do not want it. If America does not do this, someone else will. That someone else can certainly destroy Iran, but they can not afford to be precise about it. If that someone else has to stop Iran from becoming a nuclear power, their only option will be technologically intensive and thorough.
You hopefully are aware that because of the Ottoman Empire and its reign in the Middle East till the End of WWI, no other Arab nation actually wants anything to do with Turkey. And apparently you seem to forget that Turkey is a member of the NATO which you pushed trough to have a base in the Middle East against the Russians. And last but not least - I don't believe you have them surrounded at all: if anything, once you go there and start anything - they have you surrounded...

Reason why the talibs are still a force..

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/28/international/asia/28naradoga.html
In a Corner of Pakistan a Debate Rages: Are Terrorist Camps Still Functioning?
By DAVID ROHDE and CARLOTTA GALL

MANSEHRA DISTRICT, Pakistan - Mujahid Mohiyuddin insists that he and his district are innocent.

Speaking in his religious seminary, or madrassa, in the Mansehra district of northern Pakistan, the young cleric admitted receiving military training in 1996 from Harkat-ul-Mujahedeen, or Movement for Holy Warriors, a Pakistani group linked to Al Qaeda and the killing of the American journalist Daniel Pearl.

But he insisted that the group had disbanded and that training camps no longer operated in the district. "The government has imposed restrictions on the holy war," he said. "There are not any training camps in the country, especially Mansehra."

This picturesque area of rolling Himalayan foothills, thick forests and isolated farms is the focus of bitter charges that Pakistan continues to allow terrorist training camps to operate on its soil.

During the past year, Taliban prisoners captured in Afghanistan, opposition politicians in Pakistan and Afghan and Indian government officials have said repeatedly that training camps are active in the Mansehra district and other parts of Pakistan, while Pakistani officials vehemently deny they exist.

Last summer, a young Pakistani captured with Taliban forces in Afghanistan said in an interview with The New York Times that he was trained in the Mansehra district by the group Mr. Mohiyuddin said had been disbanded. An armed Pakistani captured in Afghanistan told a private Afghan television channel in June that he had been trained there.

In July, two militants told a Pakistani journalist working on contract for The New York Times that they met one of the July 7 London bombing suspects, Shehzad Tanweer, on a trip to a militant training camp in the Mansehra district last winter. Three Pakistanis recently sentenced to prison terms in Afghanistan for trying to assassinate the American ambassador said they had been trained in the district, an Afghan intelligence official said.

Another Pakistani captured in Afghanistan this month said he had been trained in the Mansehra district.

Sher Ali, a 28-year-old night watchman from Pakistan's North-West Frontier Province who was caught in July on his way to join the mujahedeen, described his training in an interview in a Kabul jail.

The interview took place in an office at the prison on Aug. 14, with no guards present. Mr. Ali described a seemingly underground system in Pakistan that trains fighters and sends them into Afghanistan. He said he met an Afghan at a friend's house in Miranshah, in Pakistan's tribal areas of North Waziristan, a lawless mountain region in which Pakistan says it has deployed 70,000 troops to hunt for militants.

After receiving directions from the Afghan, he journeyed alone to a camp hidden in the mountains above the Mansehra district. "Nowadays they don't have legal camps," he said. "I got the feeling it was a very secret place."

He was given directions and walked for three hours until he came to a small white tent pitched in a clearing. From there, two men took him on foot for another hour or two and he joined a group of 20 Pakistanis. Some, he said, were being trained to fight Indian forces in the disputed region of Kashmir and some were to go to Afghanistan.

There were no buildings, he said, and the men slept on the ground. Their trainer, whom they knew as Maksud, spoke Urdu, he said. "He taught us to use a Kalashnikov and a rocket-propelled grenade," he said. After just three weeks there, he set off for Afghanistan, he said.

But the Afghan police identified him as a Pakistani and detained him.

In southern Afghanistan, a Taliban commander who recently defected to the Afghan government, Mullah Sayed Mir, said a training program for new recruits was also being conducted in and around the southwestern Pakistani town of Quetta.

"The Taliban have rented houses in Pakistan, they live there and also get training there," he said in a recent interview in Zabul Province. "Then, they are sent to Afghanistan."

He said Pakistanis, including local policemen, aided the Taliban. "The Pakistanis would give us some equipment and money if we needed it," he said. "Also they were helping with renting houses in Pakistan for the Taliban." Once, he said, he and a group of 20 fighters had a Pakistani police escort to the border.

Pakistani officials deny aiding the Taliban and say they are aggressively cracking down on all militants :rolleyes: . In an interview on July 29, Pakistan's president, Pervez Musharraf, said there were no training camps operating in Pakistan with government support.

This spring, some militant groups began using abandoned camps in the Pakistan-controlled portion of the disputed Kashmir region, he said, but government forces intervened.

"There were some vacant camps, and we got information they were being used," said General Musharraf. "We are now going to occupy them."

American officials have credited Pakistan with aggressively cracking down on foreign militants, particularly Al Qaeda.

At the same time, some Afghan and American officials say Pakistan is making little effort to fight the Taliban. Those officials say Pakistan is effectively holding that group in reserve, intending to use it to dominate Afghanistan once the United States withdraws its troops.

Independent and reliable confirmation of any claims about the camps is difficult, if not impossible, to verify.

Foreign journalists are not allowed access to the lawless tribal regions along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border and the Pakistani controlled portion of Kashmir, two areas where many of the camps are reported to be operating.

Pakistani officials also have begun issuing restricted visas that bar foreign journalists from traveling to Quetta and Peshawar, another place where there are said to be training camps. Pakistani officials say the restrictions are for their safety.

But foreign journalists are allowed to travel to the Mansehra district, an area only 60 miles north of Islamabad.

A one-day visit in early August produced ample evidence that militant training camps had operated in the area for years, but no proof that they are still active today.

Local politicians proudly declared that the area supported several training camps in the past 15 years, but those trained only young men fighting Indian forces in the disputed territory of Kashmir.

The government closed the camps, they said, when the India-Pakistan peace talks resumed in early 2004.

"There were camps," said Mohammed Yunus Khattack, the deputy chief of the hard-line Jamaat Islami religious party in the Mansehra district. "But now this is finished."

During the past two months, other reports of training camps in Pakistan have emerged.

In July, a reporter for one of Pakistan's leading news magazines wrote that he had recently visited a reopened training camp in the Mansehra district. The article in the magazine, The Herald, said 13 camps reopened in the Mansehra area in May, including one near the home village of Mr. Mohiyuddin, the cleric who said the camps had closed.

A Pakistani opposition leader, Maulana Fazlur Rehman, then accused the Pakistani Army of helping and training militants to fight in Afghanistan and of deceiving the West about its commitment to the campaign against terrorism, comments he retracted the next day. Mr. Rehman is the head of a coalition of six Islamist parties in Pakistan and the leader of an opposition bloc in the Pakistani Parliament.

On the road to Mr. Mohiyuddin's village, the seal of Harkat-ul-Mujahedeen was visible on several buildings, but district residents insisted the signs were old.

During a lengthy interview in his madrassa, Mr. Mohiyuddin again denied that training is occurring in the area and repeated the canard that American and Israeli intelligence operatives had staged the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks to create a pretense to invade Muslim countries.

Mr. Mohiyuddin, a small, charismatic man with a boyish face who said he was "about 30," also appeared to be very popular. Residents said that crime, which had flourished under corrupt local police and government officials, virtually disappeared after Mr. Mohiyuddin returned from Afghanistan.

Relaxed and confident, Mr. Mohiyuddin described himself as a pious schoolteacher and courageous local crime fighter. He said local politicians jealous of his popularity had unfairly placed him on a list of wanted criminals.

Asked about repeated reports that Harkat is still training militants here, he insisted that the group was no longer active.

"The government disbanded that organization," he said. "We people are now struggling for our living."

David Rohde reported from the Mansehra district in Pakistan for this article, and Carlotta Gall from Kabul, Afghanistan. Ruhullah Khapalwak contributed reporting from Zabul Province, Afghanistan, and Talat Hussainfrom Islamabad.

Report from Zabul province which borders Pakistan...

51st US soldier this year is killed in forgotten war (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1774295,00.html)

IT WAS just after midnight when the radio crackled and a shout of “Man down, man down” came over the airwaves. The signal was weak and the voice barely audible, but the message to the men of Kelts platoon of the US Army’s 503rd Airborne was painfully clear.

Earlier that evening a patrol of 16 Americans and 25 Afghan soldiers and police had set off from their mud compound at Baylough, in Afghanistan’s restive southern province of Zabul, to stake out the house of Mullah Toor Manan, a local Taliban commander.

The Afghans covered the front of the house; Captain Mike Kloepper, the commanding officer, and Lieutenant Derek Hines, 25, his second-in-command, took the back.

The sound of gunfire alerted the men at base that something was wrong. Then came the message on the radio.

Manan, number 15 on America’s most wanted list, had apparently been alerted by sounds outside and he and his bodyguard burst out of the back of the house. Before they were both shot and killed they unloaded several rounds — one of which went through Hines’s left shoulder, passing through his chest. He and his Afghan interpreter died.

Hines was the 51st US soldier to die in hostile fire in Afghanistan this year, the highest annual number since the 2001 invasion. His killing has underlined the threat still posed by the Taliban in its southern stronghold in the run-up to parliamentary elections next Sunday.

Fighting the remnants of Afghanistan’s fundamentalist Islamic erstwhile rulers will be the main challenge for British troops who are to play the leading role in a multinational force to be deployed in nearby Helmand province next May.

“This is the front line in the war on terror,” said Lieutenant Mark Bush, a 25-year-old member of Kelts platoon. Bush said the Day Chopan district in the north of Zabul, for which he was responsible, had suffered more violent attacks than anywhere else in Afghanistan. It was also one of the most conservative areas, where a mere 90 of the 4,500 women eligible to vote had registered.

Bush, a calm, reflective man who plays guitar, said: “I remember watching the footage of 9/11 and seeing someone run into the smoke to help people. I wanted to be the type of person that helps people. I’m helping these people to be free from terrorists.”

The base used to be a police headquarters and is as austere as it is isolated. It has no running water and all waste has to be burnt. Rocket attacks are a regular event. Defence is a matter of damage limitation.

A western security source said he believed the local Taliban were being trained and assisted by militants from Chechnya, Uzbekistan and other central Asian countries. The Day Chopan area is so dangerous that almost all supplies are flown in by helicopter from Kandahar. The helicopters fly in twos — a Chinook to carry supplies and an Apache to protect it from ground attack.

When it comes to taking on the Taliban, however, the American soldiers have no alternative but to venture beyond their base, sometimes with fatal consequences.

Hines’s father Steven, a policeman with the anti-terrorist taskforce at Boston’s Logan airport, said last week that when told of his son’s death he was initially angry with the American government for having sent him on such a mission.

However, his anger was tempered by the knowledge that his son truly believed in the work he was undertaking. “I don’t want to minimise his memory by getting mad at the government,” Steven Hines said. “He didn’t have to go to Ranger school or Airborne school. He chose to. He was fearless.”

Among the dead man’s comrades, however, there is frustration at how little is understood in America about what they are going through.

“We thought we wouldn’t take our guns off safety, but this is a war,” said Private Justin Berg, at 24 one of the older members of the platoon. “In America they call it ‘Who-gives-a-stan’. They don’t think anything is going on here any more.”

# Gunmen fired on a vehicle belonging to Abdul Rahim Wardak, the defence minister, yesterday, shortly after he had got out. Nobody was hurt in the incident, which happened after a helicopter carrying the army chief, General Bismillah Khan, was forced to crash land. He escaped without injury.

Agence France Presse -- English
HEADLINE: Pakistan forces find 'drone' in raid on Al-Qaeda
DATELINE: PESHAWAR, Pakistan Sept 13


Pakistani forces recovered an unmanned drone aircraft and a major weapons cache in a raid on a suspected Al-Qaeda hideout in the tribal areas near Afghanistan, a top commander said Tuesday.

Militants used the Chinese-made vehicle to spy on security forces in the rugged area, where Pakistani soldiers have been battling Islamic militants for more than a year, Lieutenant General Safdar Hussain told reporters.

"The terrorists used the RPV (remotely-piloted vehicle) to check the position of security forces and attack them," the general said, adding that the drone was capable of carrying weapons.

A military officer from the army's Signal Corps said the vehicle had a sophisticated, wide-angle camera to take pictures of targets on the ground, while Hussain said they had seized a CD which pinpointed Pakistani troops.

Security forces also found a "suicide jacket" and Jordanian, Afghan and Pakistani passports along with Al-Qaeda training material from the compound, Hussain said.

Additionally they uncovered a cache of weapons including 17 machine guns, 29 rockets, 51 grenades, eight improvised bombs and 10 landmines, he added.

And how exactly can a Chinese supplied drone to the Packee army can find its way to AQ?

Pre-poll violence in Afghanistan (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4255236.stm?headline=Pre-poll~violence~in~Afghanistan)


Fresh violence has broken out in Afghanistan as the country prepares for elections on Sunday.

Twenty suspected Taleban members were arrested in southern Helmand province when they were caught planting bombs at a dam, the defence ministry says.

Also, seven suspected Taleban rebels and three policemen were killed in two separate incidents overnight.

Over 12 million registered voters will choose from almost 6,000 candidates in the parliamentary and provincial polls.

Security forces have made arrests and seized explosives in several cities across Afghanistan on the eve of polling.

Seven suspected Taleban rebels were killed after ambushing a police patrol in southern Zabul province late on Friday, officials say.

And in Musayi, just outside Kabul, three policemen including a district police chief were killed in an ambush.

The Afghan government has blamed the Taleban and Al Qaeda for the ambush.

Security in the capital has been increased and strict checks are being made on vehicles entering Kabul, the BBC's Bilal Sarwary reports.

A senior security official in the city told the BBC that "we are on a high alert and do not want to take any chances".

Meanwhile, a defence official said that thousands of villagers would have been put at risk if the Kajaki dam, in Helmand province, targeted by insurgents, had burst.

Other cities across the country are less crowded than usual, correspondents say.

Logistics

The administration of the elections is an additional challenge.

"This is a more challenging election logistically than the presidential elections last year," Sultan Ahmed Baheen, spokesman for the Joint electoral management body, told the BBC.

A total of 160,000 polling officials are being deployed for the elections, at 26,000 polling stations across the country.

Ballot papers have been sent by donkeys, horses and camels to far-flung provinces such as Badakhshan, Nuristan, Bamiyan and Kunar.

Disruption

The Taleban oppose the elections and have vowed to disrupt them.

Commander of US forces in Afghanistan Lt Gen Karl Eikenberry told Reuters news agency that insurgents would not hesitate to attack polling stations.

"We are up against an enemy that will not hesitate to attack unarmed election workers...to try to attack innocent Afghan citizens trying to express their will in a representational government," he said.

But he stressed "tomorrow that election is going to go. There will be some violence, but it's going to go."

A spokesman for the Taleban said, however, that polling stations will not be targeted because of the risk to civilian life, the BBC's Roland Buerk in Kandahar reports.

But in Logar province, officials said that rockets had been found near a polling station, aimed and ready to fire. They were defused.

On Thursday night suspected Taleban militants killed an election candidate in Helmand province.

More than 1,000 people, including seven election candidates, have been killed in fighting with insurgents in the past six months.

Prediction:

Fifteen years from now, a full, independent history of the "War on Terror" will be issued. It will contain detailed proofs of: the faulty intelligence and incompetence that allowed 9/11 to happen; the corrupt decision to use 9/11 to promote a pre-existing plan for Mid-east hegemony; the gross misconduct in Washington that left 1000s of US and international soldiers as well as tens of thousands of civilians to die in Afghanistan and Iraq; the failure to capture bin Laden or any of the other major international terrorists who, by that time, will have achieved several more large scale attacks in various countries, costing 1000s of lives; the return of the Taliban under Mullah Omar, which will rule Afghanistan so brutally they may hire out as executioners to other dictatorships, just so they won't run out of people to kill; and the related skyrocketing rise of organized crime promoting the heroin and illegal arms trades.

I only hope that this history will also tell about how the neo-cons' ill-advised and mismanaged warmongering eventually weakened the US economy and reduced its fighting force so much that they couldn't start any more wars; that the US finally gave up and stayed home; and that the independent investigation into war crimes and profiteering by neo-con politicians is still going on, with arrests of aging neo-cons weekly.

How come a reporter can get to a Taliban commander ( that too one of the 30 most wanted fugitives in Afghanistan) while the coalition forces cannot?

http://us.rediff.com/news/2005/sep/27spec4.htm?q=np&file=.htm

The Taliban's new face

Hamid Mir | September 27, 2005 | 18:43 IST

Mullah Muhammad Anas is the unofficial ruler of Afghanistan's Andore district.

The small but tough Taliban commander -- one of the 30 most wanted fugitives in Afghanistan -- has made it impossible for US and NATO forces to move freely in the district, the biggest in Ghazni province.

I managed to get his mobile number from a Taliban sympathiser who stood in front of Sultan Mahmood Ghaznavi's tomb in the heart of Ghazni city.

Anas only understood my Assalam-o-Alliekum, because the Taliban commander couldn't speak Urdu. I tried communicating in English, but failed. Then, I used my broken Persian, and the deadlock was broken.

He was surprised that a Pakistani journalist was looking for the Taliban in Ghazni. When I expressed my desire to meet him, he said I was late because he was deep in the mountains of Andore and it would be difficult for him to come to the city by evening. [so he comes to the city rather regularly...]


So I decided to risk visiting him instead. He was happy, but made just two small conditions: One, I would not travel in my Prado jeep with a driver from Kabul. Two, I would have to take a taxi from Ghazni with any local Pashtun driver. Needless to say, I accepted both.

I asked my driver to stay in the city and went to a taxi stand. Most drivers were reluctant to go to Andore, saying it was late and it would be difficult to return before sunset. One asked for double charges, and I agreed. We settled on 1,000 Afghanis -- approximately $20.

We started travelling on the muddy Kabul-Kandahar road to Andore. After a few kilometres, we were stopped by three armed Taliban near a village. When they learnt I was a guest of their commander, they called Mullah Anas to reconfirm, then welcomed us to the 'land of Taliban.' One of them joined us as a guide.

An hour and a half later, I was sitting with Mullah Anas -- not in a cave, but in a large muddy compound of a village teeming with armed fighters.

The first thing I asked him was : How could he trust an unknown Pashtun taxi driver?

He smiled and looked towards the driver sitting next to me. "Local Pashtuns don't betray us," he said. "We will note down his name and taxi number. If he creates any problem for us, we will take care of him. But I am sure he is a real Pashtun and will not commit treason."

I commented on the Taliban movement becoming more nationalist than Islamic, considering it was now limited only to the Pashtun dominated areas of Afghanistan. I mentioned Afghan Interior Minister Ali Ahmad Jalali, who belonged to the Andore district but had not visited his home for a year since Anas had taken over. Jalali had repeatedly accused Pakistan of secretly providing training facilities to the Taliban. (Jalali resigned on Tuesday due to the increasing violence).

Anas responded to the allegation by saying, simply, "You are sitting with me in an Afghan village, not a Pakistani one. Ask Jalali to come here if he can. Yes, we have the support of some Pakistani brothers, but Pakistani rulers are our enemies. Musharraf is not different from Karzai. Both are fighting on behalf of the Americans against us. How can a Pakistani Karzai support us? This allegation is an insult."

One angry Taliban fighter shouted at me in broken English: "Frontier Province (the North West Frontier Province) is not Pakistan. It is a Pashtun area that was occupied by Farangis (England) one hundred years ago. If we go to the Pashtun areas of Peshawar, it is not Pakistan, it is Afghanistan."
[The Durrand line which delineates Afghan-Paki border is not recognised by the Pushtun tribes living on both the sides, for them the border does not exist]

His comments were like a bombshell for me. Because just four years ago, it was the Taliban that confronted nationalist Pashtuns who opposed the Durand line that divided Afghanistan from united India more than a century ago.

This was a new face of the Taliban, but Anas tried to hide it. "Don't say these things in the presence of a Pakistani guest," he told his colleague.

Anas tried to explain his colleague's anger, saying "We were betrayed by Pakistani rulers after 9/11, which is why a lot of Taliban have developed bad feelings against the Punjabis of Pakistan."

I tried correcting him by saying that Musharraf is not a Punjabi, but Anas said, "(Lieutenant General) Safdar Hussein is a Punjabi responsible for fighting against our Mahsud and Wazir brothers in South and North Wazirastan, on the orders of Musharraf."

After serving us Afghani tea, Anas then invited us to film his attack on a US military convoy after two hours. We declined politely. I was aware that US convoys didn't move in that area without air cover. The Taliban would kill three or four US soldiers, but would lose more of their own men to the air bombing that would ensue.

The commander then made me another offer. He said, "You can choose a CD of our previous attacks on Americans then." I accepted.

Within minutes, he loaded a CD to a small laptop, showing me how they destroyed a US Humvee with a roadside bomb a few days ago. He pointed his finger towards a young boy standing behind him saying, "Brother Qadir filmed that ambush with his Sony movie camera." [There are reports that these CDs are doing the rounds in Pakistan and are being used as a recruiting tool]

The Taliban banned cameras when they were in power. Now, they appear to have amended their ideology. In Islamic Shariah, this amendment is called Ijtahad. Today, the Taliban are waging their Jihad with Ijtahad. They banned photography and television sets in Afghanistan after taking over Kabul in 1996. Now, they want to use cameras and television as a new weapon in a propaganda war against their enemy.

When I asked why the Taliban were fighting against Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai on one hand and talking to him on the other, Anas grinned. "Talk to Mufti Hakimisahib about it. I am not entitled to speak on such a big issue."

He gave me Hakimi's satellite phone number. He picked it up after 12 rings. Hakimi was shocked to hear I was sitting with Mullah Anas. He asked me to leave immediately because he was aware of the planned attack on the Americans. "They will make this area hell in a few hours," he screamed. "Go away, go away."

We fled in panic. An hour later, Hakimi called to check if I was back in Ghazni. I told him I would reach in half an hour. Warning me against visiting 'independent' areas without informing him in advance, he said: "The Americans can kill you and throw the responsibility on our shoulders."

After a few minutes, we were stopped by a big group of Afghan National Army soldiers near the city. The Pashtun taxi driver explained that he had some Pakistani journalists who were visiting some election candidates in nearby villages. The soldiers checked our IDs and let us go. But not before warning that "this area is not safe. You shouldn't come here again without a police escort."

I thanked the driver, who replied, "I lie to both Taliban and the security forces every day just in the interest of a safe drive." In broken Urdu, he explained that he liked neither the Taliban, nor Karzai or the Americans. But he couldn't fight them as both parties were very strong. It was only the common Afghans who were suffering, he said.

I returned to Kabul late that night and had dinner at Delhi Darbar, a restaurant owned by an Indian. There, I met a local Newsweek reporter called Sami Yousafzai, who had also met a Taliban commander in Zabul earlier that day. He suggested I visit Kunar, where Al Qaeda had recently downed a US helicopter. Apparently, CDs of the operation were available at shops in Asadabad city.

Over the next eight days, I visited at least a dozen provinces in East and South Afghanistan. I realized that Hamid Karzai ruled only the big cities. The rest of the rural and mountainous areas were controlled by Taliban, Al Qaeda and, in some places, by Gulbuddin Hekmatyar's Hizb-e-Islami. Karzai has tried to engage the Taliban through many people, but they are not interested in talks. They are exploiting the wave of anti-Americanism that mushroomed after reports of the desecration of a Quran by American troops.


There are just 18,000 US troops deployed in Afghanistan, compared to more than 150,000 in Iraq. It is just not enough for establishing Karzai's writ in the 2,000-kilometre long Pashtun belt, bordering Pakistan

Anti-Taliban forces like the Northern Alliance are also against the presence of US troops in Afghanistan. Fearing that the presence of US troops will come under fire in Afghanistan's new parliament, Karzai has urged foreign troops to avoid house-to-house search operations without his permission.

The most disturbing thing for Karzai is the beginning of suicide attacks by the Taliban against the security forces. According to Interior Ministry official Lutafullah Mashal, some Arabs from Iraq are providing training to Taliban fighters in Kunar and Nuristan for bomb making. The Taliban have killed more than 325 Afghan police officers in the last six months.

The number of foreign troop causalities is limited because they don't go after the Taliban in remote areas. Mashal said the Taliban dumped a lot of weapons when they were in power, and were now buying weapons from local warlords and also across the border from Pakistani tribes. He also claimed that the Taliban were in possession of SAM missiles of Russian and Chinese origin, which they are getting from Iraqi Kurdistan at $2,500 each. Mashal recently arrested some smugglers in Nimroz who smuggled weapons from Iraqi Kurdistan through Iran.

Where is the money coming from?

Mashal smiled intriguingly. "They have some sympathisers in Pakistan," he said, "but it is mainly Al Qaeda using them against us because they want to make Afghanistan another Iraq."

I asked him how Taliban spokesman Mufti Hakimi was speaking to the Associated Press daily and yet avoided capture by the Americans. Mashal responded saying that Hakimi was clever. He was using at least eight different numbers, ten local mobile numbers and some Pakistani mobile numbers. He used one number for 10 to 15 minutes before switching to another, foiling all attempts to track him. "We will get him very soon though," he claimed.


Most�diplomats in Kabul believe the Taliban are getting stronger by the day, and returning with a vengeance. More than 1,300 people have died in insurgent violence already, making 2005 by far the bloodiest year since the overthrow of the Taliban government in November 2001. Afghanistan is a new Iraq in the making.

Taliban experts like Ahmad Rashid say Karzai has failed to control corruption and the warlords, and these two problems have forced common Afghanis to think that at least the Taliban gave them peace, which has now becoming a dream.

Ahmad Rashid is a close friend of Karzai, and this was the first time I heard him criticise the Afghan president.

"Karzai is missing a great chance to stabilise Afghanistan," he said. "He is not informing the outside world that the West is not hunting Al Qaeda here in Afghanistan. There has been no Osama hunting for a long time either. They are only increasing their influence in border areas close to Iran."

Afghan journalist Sami Yousafzai noted that the former Communists and Taliban were the poor people, while the rest of the politicians are former Mujahideen who minted money during the war against the Soviet Union. These Mujahideen are said to be Karzai's biggest allies. In reality, however, they are warlords. They were not debarred from the elections despite running large armed militias.

The new ruling elite of Afghanistan are rich. The people are poor, and have no love for the elite. In some areas like Khost, the Taliban didn't created problems for ex-Communist candidates, but threatened ex-Mujahideen from the richer class.

It is another dimension to the new Taliban. They are now class conscious.

http://www.afgha.com/?af=article&sid=50275

The Taliban’s Trojan horse

Date: Saturday, September 24 2005 @ 17:47:31 CEST
Topic: The Taleban

Afgha.com
Sep. 24, 2005
by Afgha.com - Matt

The announcement by purported Taliban spokesman, Mufti Latifullah Hakimi, that the Taliban will refrain from attacking polling centers on the day of the elections could actually indicate the Taliban’s clandestine effort to infiltrate the Afghan government through legitimate means. The Taliban are secretly backing fundamentalist elements that are legitimately running in the elections.

Hakimi also stated the Taliban has a list of candidates it supports and who he claims will work with the Taliban in the future. This is in its essence, the Taliban’s Trojan horse. Candidates who can be elected legitimately but are really Taliban agents; hiding in the underbelly of democracy, waiting to spring into action once installed in their prospective positions.

As the current elections are in a sense, a power grab for everyone who has decided to run, the Taliban too, are vying a power grab through manipulation of the elections. The Taliban are exhausting all means and are sparing no expense in their quest to regain power. Although Hakimi asserts the group has no intention of attacking polling stations but still hopes to disrupt the elections, is clearly highlighted by this summer’s ferocious violence that has cast a negative light onto the electoral process.

Candidates who openly denounce the Taliban have been targeted by the insurgents over the last several months and several Ulema council clerics have been slain by fundamentalist assassins. There is no denying that this year’s ‘spring offensive’ by the Taliban has been the most aggressive since their 2001 overthrow. Powered by a noticeably fresh flow of funds, manpower, weapons and improved tactics, the Taliban violently reemerged as far more than a nuisance, rather a dedicated enemy to peace and stability.

Part of the Taliban’s Trojan horse strategy will be exploiting the vulnerable areas in the conservative Pushtun south where Karzai’s reach is limited and where violent engagements with security forces happen regularly. Parts of Zabul, Oruzgan, Helmand, Paktia, Paktika, Khost and Kandahar are areas where Taliban ideals are still accepted by a populace that is willing to support the group’s efforts. This region is the Taliban’s spiritual backbone, and is a current supplier of fighters, hideouts and logistical bases. It is within this area that the Trojan horse candidates would most likely be running and supported.

If they are successful in managing to have active Taliban members or ‘sleepers’ installed through legitimate elections, the Taliban may succeed in widening their political wing, expanding the military front, and establishing bases in greater Afghanistan. This would enable them to secure areas, establish front lines and rear bases, and garner support of the general populace through political means. Whether the Trojan horse tactic will bear ill for all is to be seen, but it is only another new element in the fundamentalists’ stepped up battle against Afghan, Coalition and US forces.

They are learning fast....

Thank you for these reports, they are most informative and enlightening :)