NationStates Jolt Archive

Originally Posted by NYAAA
Thats what you get for depending on "tougher laws" and "harsher sentences" for things that are already illegal, i.e. shooting at innocent people. Not one of the people involved in these shootings owned their weapons legally. Making it harder for a decent person to own and live with firearms is a mockery of justice.

And so I have three words: Concealed Carry Reform.

The police aren't there to protect you when retards who believe the rap they listen to start shooting. You are, so shoot back.

This is one of the few things the US has done right. People screamed and moaned about how the streets would run red with blood if a CCW system was implemented - it never happened.

Fun fact - 1 in 10 people shot by police is innocent. 1 in 50 shot by a law-abiding gunowner is innocent. Fancy that._________________________

Holy smokes-DISARM the police! Accidents waiting to happen! nobody but the citizenry deserve to have weapons!



:rolleyes:

How many law abiding gun owners are there in the U.S.?

How many law abiding gun owners are there in the U.S.?

I believe someone on here said about 80 million!

People that OYE OYE looks up to

http://www.flashbunny.org/content/heroes.html

Click on this one oh wise one

http://www.flashbunny.org/content/freespeech.html

You can only have guns to hunt deer! No assault weapons for you! Only single shot rifles and shotguns!

http://www.flashbunny.org/content/hunting.html

The RKBA is outdated-okay, OYE OYE!

http://www.flashbunny.org/content/outdated.html

Infamous gun nuts(like ME!)

http://www.flashbunny.org/content/gunnuts.html

I do know what causes some people to die. More people die by cancer, drug abuse, car accidents, lightening than they do by guns.
Cancer and lightning deaths are natural causes.

Deaths by drug abuse and guns are unnatural causes, and most often unnecessary.

BTW, you do realize that you stated that people die "by guns". :D

Such as that underground bunker of Sarin gas artillery shells that was found?

The Constitution was drafted as a response to tyranny by a foreign power.

Oye Oye, if you don't like the fact we can own guns just say so. And go and tell Kofi to try and get them. C'mon, I dare ya.

I told you, I don't care if people in the U.S. want to own guns. In fact the best thing for the world would be to take all you little Rambo wannabees, stick you on an island and let you go loose on each other. Then there wouldn't be any sexually repressed tough talkers to encourage weapon manufacturers to create more weapons.

Cancer and lightning deaths are natural causes.

I don't call getting hit by lightening a natural cause of death.

Deaths by drug abuse and guns are unnatural causes, and most often unnecessary.

I noticed you left out getting hit by a car.

BTW, you do realize that you stated that people die "by guns". :D

People kill people CanuckHeaven.

I told you, I don't care if people in the U.S. want to own guns. In fact the best thing for the world would be to take all you little Rambo wannabees, stick you on an island and let you go loose on each other. Then there wouldn't be any sexually repressed tough talkers to encourage weapon manufacturers to create more weapons.

Great, then the criminal element won't exist since the people with the guns will take them out. Now that we have full law abiding citizens with guns again, we still win :D

I believe someone on here said about 80 million!

That would mean 1.6 million people living in the U.S. have been killed by law abiding gun owners.

[QUOTE=Really Wild Stuff]

Capital punishment? Sorry pal, you seem to have grown up wrong. If you kill people, you're a murderer. If a democratic government sanctions it, then EVERYBODY is a murderer. I'm no murderer.

Agree - Capital Punishment is not the answer, especially in Canada where we strive (altruistically or not) to remain an example for burgeoning societies around the world that violence does not beget violence. Reminds me of quote from a Libyan Revolutionary (not condoning, just quoting): When his men had captured an Italian soldier, they wanted to torture him before executing him. This, they claimed, was to be done as retribution for the torture and mutilations that the revolutionaries had suffered under the Italians. The leader responded, 'We will not harm them. They (the Italians) are not our teachers'. But I digress....Furthermore, it has been proven in multiple studies that: It is more expensive to execute in Western societies than to hold for life (legal fees, court time, etc), something that cannot be avoided or the rule of law will suffer (Thomas Moore - If you were to cut down all the laws in the land, what would prevent the Devil himself from coming to get you); and there is no correlation between reduced violent criminal activity to those countries / states that still have the death penalty.

However, Really Wild Stuff, how can you honestly say the latter portion of your quoted text?! There is indeed a time for killing when one is not labelled a murderer, and your society, your Canadian society, supports this as an extension of foreign policy in your military, which is not only trained to kill to meet your nation’s political goals, but has also done so in nearly all operations undertaken since the end of the Cold War. You, a Canadian citizen, pay taxes to train your soldiers to be prepared to kill within the Geneva Convention and the Law of Armed Conflict - sanctioned law to permit your citizenry, when properly trained, to kill when the circumstances warrant. They are not murders, nor is the rest of Canadian society. Furthermore, and in the same vein, police are also permitted to kill in the escalation of a situation to either protect themselves or others who are in danger. This, I assure you, does not make them murders, nor does it make murders of the Canadian population who pays for their services.

You had me until you said that. Then you got me back on track with the rest of post. Careful not to oversimplify issues or risk losing your point altogether.

Great, then the criminal element won't exist since the people with the guns will take them out. Now that we have full law abiding citizens with guns again, we still win :D

Unless of course the smell of blood gets to you and you gun advocates start wasting each other, then it's the world that wins.

Unless of course the smell of blood gets to you and you gun advocates start wasting each other, then it's the world that wins.

Nah, most Americans knows what the power of the gun is and know how to use it responsibily.

I don't call getting hit by lightening a natural cause of death.
Maybe you can somehow prove that lightning is "unnatural"?

I noticed you left out getting hit by a car.
Yes car accidents do kill people. Some people do use cars to murder others, but 70% of murders in the US are caused by firearms (the weapon of choice).

People kill people CanuckHeaven.
Yet the police usually like to list the "cause" of death.

Nah, most Americans knows what the power of the gun is and know how to use it responsibily.

And there are at least one million people who will never be able to testify to that.

Maybe you can somehow prove that lightning is "unnatural"?

Lightning itself is a natural occuring event with thunderstorms.

Yes car accidents do kill people. Some people do use cars to murder others, but 70% of murders in the US are caused by firearms (the weapon of choice).

But yet more people die in traffic accidents than by guns! Why is that?

Yet the police usually like to list the "cause" of death.

Murder or homicide or justifiable homicide.

Lightning itself is a natural occuring event with thunderstorms.

But yet more people die in traffic accidents than by guns! Why is that?

Murder or homicide or justifiable homicide.
Your rebuttal is tending towards the lame end of the scale.

And there are at least one million people who will never be able to testify to that.

There were 170 million people in the 19th century that were killed by their own goverments.

There were 170 million people in the 19th century that were killed by their own goverments.
So maybe there's 170 million (or more) in the 21st who'll be saved by their own governments smartening up and taking guns out of the picture. What do you think this is, the Wild West?

I told you, I don't care if people in the U.S. want to own guns. In fact the best thing for the world would be to take all you little Rambo wannabees, stick you on an island and let you go loose on each other. Then there wouldn't be any sexually repressed tough talkers to encourage weapon manufacturers to create more weapons.

"A fear of weapons is a sign of sexual retardedness"-Sigmund Freud

No fear of weapons here :D

Oye oye,

I'm no rambo. If you want, I can find one for you. Look at Gunshows-you'll see your 450 lbs I just got out of the seals I am a space shuttle door gunner I flew FA18s in Vietnam guys out in force. Gun shows are places of mass murder right? I mean, literally thousands and thousands of guns in one place....

There are MORE than 80 million gun owners in the US. That number was said before I bought my guns.

It's now 80 million and ONE. :cool: :D :p ;) :gundge: :sniper: :mp5:

Your rebuttal is tending towards the lame end of the scale.

Believe what you will CanuckHeaven. I don't care what you think anyway.

Believe what you will CanuckHeaven. I don't care what you think anyway.
I don't believe you, otherwise you wouldn't bother replying to CanuckHeaven's posts in minute point-counterpoint-detailed format.

So maybe there's 170 million (or more) in the 21st who'll be saved by their own governments smartening up and taking guns out of the picture. What do you think this is, the Wild West?

Nope, this is the real world where you socialist nanny-state fantasies don't work.

Molon labe.

Nah, most Americans knows what the power of the gun is and know how to use it responsibily.

Thanks for the compliment.

I don't believe you, otherwise you wouldn't bother replying to CanuckHeaven's posts in minute point-counterpoint-detailed format.

I don't see why he would, seeing as Canduckheaven's opinion as far as US gun control goes means absolutely jack. (Assuming from his screenname that he's Canadian).

That would mean 1.6 million people living in the U.S. have been killed by law abiding gun owners.

So you assume that EVERY SInGLE GUN OWNER has shot someone?

I'ld like you to prove that one.

Unless of course the smell of blood gets to you and you gun advocates start wasting each other, then it's the world that wins.

and posted in another thread..
You want to read some seriously dumb statements? Check out the comments posted by Kecikubia, ARF and Corneliu in their "right to bare arms" defence.


Ah, and once again we're back to the Ad-hominems.

Try and get my name right at least.

And there are at least one million people who will never be able to testify to that.

And over 80 million that can. With that of course are the 2 million per year that responsibly use firearms to defend themselves.

So maybe there's 170 million (or more) in the 21st who'll be saved by their own governments smartening up and taking guns out of the picture. What do you think this is, the Wild West?

I agree w/ Dobbs on this one..

Disarm the Governments.

WTF? Read what you wrote! People are never saved by government, but occastionaly need to be saved FROM government.


So maybe there's 170 million (or more) in the 21st who'll be saved by their own governments smartening up and taking guns out of the picture. What do you think this is, the Wild West?

Cars are dangerous, they kill 40,000 people a year and maim many more they are wastful of engery and resources be should ban all privatly owned cars and only have busses with professtional drivers...it would be safer.

Political speach has be the motivating factor in millions of murders in the 20th century it should be banned for safety's sake.

These are the logical next steps in your progression are you cool with them ?

How am I changing the subject?

Premise: Guns are dangerous they should be eliminated.

Reasons why guns are dangerous:

1. Accidents caused by people who do not know how to handle fire arms.

2. Intentional attacks by people who acquired the guns legally.

3. Intentional attacks by people who acquired the guns illegally but from a legal source.

I honestly don't know how to make my argument any clearer to you.



The afore mentioned reasons deal with the use of guns that are aquired from legal gun dealers. The examples I have provided have demonstrated how people legally entitled to own a fire arm either used that fire arm, or allowed someone else to use their fire arms to cause harm to innocent civilians.



:rolleyes:

All dealers including gunshows should check a biometric id there are fingerprint readers that can hook to any pc with an internet connection for less than $100. At gun shows you could be screened at the door as part of the ticket price.

ARF has mentioned he is under 21 so he buys from a private dealer, would private dealers check for this?

Crappy parenting and poor gun saftey the parents should be charged.
Girl, 6, kills brother with gun

So you assume that EVERY SInGLE GUN OWNER has shot someone?

I'ld like you to prove that one.


i think (i stress think cause i dont know oye oye) that s/he was referring to the claim by a pro gun person that 1 in 50 gun owners kills an innocent vs 1 in 10 police officers...

1 in 50 = 2%
2% x 80 million = 1.6 Million.

This is not proof sure, but it is pointing out a problem with "legitimate" gun ownership in the USA.

I don't blame the object I blame the crappy parents this could have just as easily been a knife. You seem to be able to find crappy gun owning parents but change your focus and you'll see you are slighty myopic the issue you are really bringing up is not guns but crappy parents.


Weekend of gun violence shocks America
Suzanne Goldenberg and Associated Press in Washington
Monday March 14, 2005
The Guardian

A boy aged two was shot in the head by his four-year-old brother after a squabble over a toy and a churchgoer opened fire on fellow worshippers, killing seven of them, in a weekend of gun violence across America.
Police said the two boys had been squabbling in their Houston home when the younger child threw a toy at his brother. The older sibling went into his mother's room and took a loaded gun from her bag, shooting his brother once in the temple. The bullet passed through the child's head.
"The four-year-old was angry ... He went and got the gun, put it to his brother's head and shot the gun," police sergeant Cameron Grysen told the Houston Chronicle.
The boy was reported to be in a critical condition at Houston's Ben Taub hospital.
His older brother did not appear to understand what he had done, Mr Grysen told the paper. "He's wondering where his brother is, and when his brother is coming back," Mr Grysen said.
The boys' mother told police she had bought the gun because of a series of burglaries in her neighbourhood, and that she usually kept it in a safe place. It was unclear whether she will face charges. Under Texas law, children below the age of 10 cannot be charged in a criminal case.
In Wisconsin, a man described by neighbours as a quiet and devout churchgoer opened fire at a weekend service, killing eight people, including himself, and wounding four others.
The shootings took place at a Sheraton hotel just outside Milwaukee, where the Living Church of God congregation meets for services every Saturday. Press reports said yesterday that the gunman paused at least once to reload his handgun as churchgoers sought cover, or tried to protect family members. The dead included two boys aged 15 and 17, a 72-year-old man and a 55-year-old woman. Three men aged from 44 to 58 died in hospital.
Police named the killer as Terry Ratzmann, 44. They said they had not found a clear motive for the killings.
However, officials said they were looking into reports that Ratzmann became upset during a church service a few weeks ago and walked out, and that he also may have been about to lose his job.
About 50-60 people were sitting in a meeting room when Ratzmann walked in from the back and started firing, Police Chief Daniel Tushaus said.
"At this point, we're unable to determine if he had specific targets or he just shot at random," police captain Phil Horter said.
Neighbours said Ratzmann was a devout churchgoer and avid gardener who built his own greenhouse and shared homegrown vegetables with his neighbours.
In Atlanta, a suspect who set off a huge manhunt following the courthouse shootings of a judge, a court stenographer and a police officer is expected to appear in court today. Brian Nichols, 33, surrendered to authorities on Saturday, waving a white cloth. Police said he killed an immigration official and held a woman hostage for hours before giving himself up.

WHERE THE F*CK ARE THESE KIDS PARENTS!!!


March 7, 2001: WILLIAMSPORT, Pennsylvania -- An eighth-grade girl has been arrested after a shooting at a Bishop Neumann Junior-Senior High School, a Roman Catholic school in Williamsport, Pennsylvania that left another 8th grade girl wounded. She says that the shooting was due to repeated teasing. BACK TO MAP



May 11, 2000: A seventh-grade student who left the Prairie Grove Junior High school Prairie Grove, Arkansas in an apparent fit of rage and a police officer were injured Thursday after shooting each other in an altercation in a hay field north of the student's school. BACK TO MAP

February 29, 2000: 6-year-old Kayla Rolland shot dead at Buell Elementary School near Flint, Mich. The assailant is identified as a 6-year-old boy with a .32-caliber handgun. Mount Morris Township, Mich. BACK TO MAP



Dec. 6, 1999: A 13-year-old student in Fort Gibson, Okla., allegedly arrived at school and opened fire with his father's 9 mm semiautomatic handgun. There were no life-threatening injuries but five of his classmates were injured, four from gunshot wounds and a fifth who suffered bruises in the chaos. More Info or BACK TO MAP

Nov. 19, 1999: A 12-year-old boy allegedly shot and killed a female classmate at the end of lunch hour outside a middle school in Deming, N.M., about 33 miles from the Mexican border. The boy was wearing a camouflage jacket when he allegedly fired the single shot from a .22-caliber handgun. BACK TO MAP

April 20, 1999: Two young men wearing long, black trench coats opened fire in a suburban high school in Littleton, Colo., injuring as many as 20 students. In all, 15 were killed, including the two gunmen. BACK TO MAP

June 15, 1998: A male teacher and a female guidance counselor are shot in a hallway at a Richmond, Va., high school. The man suffers an injury to the abdomen that wasn’t life threatening; the woman is reportedly grazed. BACK TO MAP

May 21, 1998: 15-year-old boy shot six classmates at Heritage High School in Conyers, Georgia a suburban of Atlanta. He used weapons he stole from a locked gun cabinet in his home. BACK TO MAP

May 21, 1998: A 15-year-old student in Springfield, Ore., expelled the day before for bringing a gun to school, allegedly opens fire in the school cafeteria. Two students are killed. The suspect’s parents are later found shot dead in their home. BACK TO MAP

May 21, 1998: Three sixth-grade boys had a “hit list” and were plotting to kill fellow classmates on the last day of school in a sniper attack during a false fire alarm, police in St. Charles, Mo., say. BACK TO MAP

May 21, 1998: A 15-year-old boy dies from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head in Onalaska, Wash. Earlier in the day, the boy boarded a high school bus with a gun in hand, ordered his girlfriend off the bus and took her to his home, where he shot himself. BACK TO MAP

May 21, 1998: A 15-year-old girl is shot and wounded at a suburban Houston high school when a gun in the backpack of a 17-year-old classmate goes off in a biology class. The boy is charged with a third-degree felony for taking a gun to school. BACK TO MAP

May 19, 1998: Three days before his graduation, an 18-year-old honor student allegedly opens fire in a parking lot at Lincoln County High School in Fayetteville, Tenn., killing a classmate who was dating his ex-girlfriend. BACK TO MAP

April 28, 1998: Two teenage boys are shot to death and a third is wounded as they played basketball at a Pomona, Calif., elementary school hours after classes had ended. A 14-year-old boy is charged; the shooting is blamed on rivalry between two groups of youths. BACK TO MAP

April 24, 1998 : A 48-year-old science teacher is shot to death in front of students at graduation dance in Edinboro, Pa. A 14-year-old student at James W. Parker Middle School is charged. BACK TO MAP

March 24, 1998: Four girls and a teacher are shot to death and 10 others wounded during a false fire alarm at Westside Middle School in Jonesboro, Ark., when two boys, ages 11 and 13, open fire from the woods. Both are convicted in juvenile court of murder and can be held up to age 21. BACK TO MAP

Dec. 15, 1997: Stamps, Arkansas - An AR eighth grader was arrested and charged as an adult after he confessed to shooting and wounded two of his fellow students as he hid in the woods outside of a high school.
BACK TO MAP


Dec. 1, 1997: Three students are killed and five others wounded while they take part in a prayer circle in a hallway at Heath High School in West Paducah, Ky. A 14-year-old student pleads guilty but mentally ill to murder and is serving life in prison. One of the wounded girls is left paralyzed. BACK TO MAP

Oct. 1, 1997: A 16-year-old outcast in Pearl, Miss., is accused of killing his mother, then going to Pearl High School and shooting nine students. Two of them die, including the suspect's ex-girlfriend. The 16-year-old is sentenced to life in prison. Two others await trial on accessory charges. BACK TO MAP

Feb. 19, 1997: A 16-year-old student opens fire with a shotgun in a common area at the Bethel, Alaska, high school, killing the principal and a student. Two other students are wounded. Authorities later accuse two other students of knowing the shootings would take place. Evan Ramsey was sentenced to two 99-year terms. BACK TO MAP

Feb. 2, 1996: A 14-year-old boy wearing a trench coat walks into algebra class with a hunting rifle and allegedly opens fire, killing the teacher and two students. A third student is injured during the shooting at a junior high school in Moses Lake, Wash.

i think (i stress think cause i dont know oye oye) that s/he was referring to the claim by a pro gun person that 1 in 50 gun owners kills an innocent vs 1 in 10 police officers...

1 in 50 = 2%
2% x 80 million = 1.6 Million.

This is not proof sure, but it is pointing out a problem with "legitimate" gun ownership in the USA.

It's called Hoplophobe mathematics.

The issue was on the number of innocent people killed by police in shootings vs by citizens in shootings.

OO used the math assuming that every legal firearm owner had shot someone(blatantly false) to make it sound like everyone w/ a firearm is out to kill someone when the majority of citizen shootings are in defense of their own or family lives.

So are cars,drugs, knives, rocks free speach, religion etc you want to live in Nerf land with no sharp edges?


The point is guns are dangerous and impossible to keep out of the hands of irresponsible, incompetent and/or emotionally imbalanced people as long as they are produced for consumers and private owners.

Say what? Legal, law abiding citizens NOT preventing crimes? This next article illustrates why we have a 2nd amendment.

Hmm. I'll bet that those shot by Law abiding citizens defending their properties are going to get in trouble with the local LEOs and NG. It happened to the korean Shop owners, it'll happen to them.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In Uptown, one the few areas that remained dry, a bearded man patrolled Oak Street near the boarded-up Maple Leaf Bar, a sawed-off shotgun slung over his shoulder. The owners of a hardware store sat in folding chairs, pistols at the ready.

Uptown resident Keith Williams started his own security patrol, driving around in his Ford pickup with his newly purchased handgun. Earlier in the day, Williams said he had seen the body of a gunshot victim near the corner of Leonidas and Hickory streets.

"What I want to know is why we don’t have paratroopers with machine guns on every street," Williams said.

Like-minded Art Depodesta sat on the edge of a picnic table outside Cooter Brown’s Bar, a chrome shotgun at his side loaded with red shells.

"They broke into the Shell station across the street," he said. "I walked over with my 12-gauge and shot a couple into the air."

The looters scattered, but soon after, another man appeared outside the bar in a pickup truck armed with a pistol and threatened Depodesta.

"I told him, ‘Listen, I was in the Army and I will blow your ass off,’" Depodesta said. "We’ve got enough trouble with the flood."

The man sped away.

"You know what sucks," Depodesta said. "The whole U.S. is looking at this city right now, and this is what they see."

In the Bywater, a supply store sported spray-painted signs reading "You Loot, I Shoot" and "You Bein Watched." A man seated nearby with a rifle in his lap suggested it was no idle threat. At the Bywater studio of Dr. Bob, the artist known for handpainted "Be Nice or Leave" signs, a less fanciful sentiment was painted on the wall: "Looters Will Be Shot. Dr. Bob."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_Times-Picayune/archives/2005_08.html

All dealers including gunshows should check a biometric id there are fingerprint readers that can hook to any pc with an internet connection for less than $100. At gun shows you could be screened at the door as part of the ticket price.

I wouldn't feel comfortable going to a gunshow that checked my biometric information or took my fingerprint.

Oye oye-Yes, I do purchase from Private dealers (I try to) since it's easier and most of the time the prices are lower, plus I don't have to fill out any forms and there is no pay now and come back in a few days crap to go through, since the seller doesn't need to call NCIS.

In order to purchase from an FFL (Federal Firearms licensee) you must be 18 for shotguns/rifles, and in order to purchase a handgun from an FFL you must be 21.

From a private seller however, you must be 18 to purchase shotguns, rifles, and pistols.

I bought a rifle from the government. Had it shipped right to my door, which was really cool since normally you have to go through an FFL. Www.odcmp.com

It's called Hoplophobe mathematics.

The issue was on the number of innocent people killed by police in shootings vs by citizens in shootings.

OO used the math assuming that every legal firearm owner had shot someone(blatantly false) to make it sound like everyone w/ a firearm is out to kill someone when the majority of citizen shootings are in defense of their own or family lives.

I went to the range today since it's going to be my last time and I want to get some lead downrange before I go....

And I caught the range on fire :D

Yes, you heard me right. I was doing some rapid fire and my barrel got too hot and it caught the sandbags (I was shooting supported on a bench) on fire :eek: . The RO called a ceasefire to I could spray the bags down with some water.

Other than that, everything went fine. I got my SKS sighted in, YIPPEEE! It was shooting around 8 feet high at 100 yards :eek: , which stuns me. After some adjusting it now shoots about a foot high, but by then I ran out of ammo. I learned that I can shoot 1 minute-of-looter, so in case I do have to drive around NO and they overtake me, I'm good :D

I went to the range today since it's going to be my last time and I want to get some lead downrange before I go....



And you're going... where?

And you're going... where?

To the kitchen for some milk and cookies.

Really, just lightening the thread a little.

It's called Hoplophobe mathematics.

The issue was on the number of innocent people killed by police in shootings vs by citizens in shootings.

OO used the math assuming that every legal firearm owner had shot someone(blatantly false) to make it sound like everyone w/ a firearm is out to kill someone when the majority of citizen shootings are in defense of their own or family lives.

I dont agree with it- i was explained what i thought someone else meant while they werent there...

:mad: Toronto can Keep this ham fisted facist forever

I dont ever wanna see this crossdressing nazi back in NY again :mad:

i think (i stress think cause i dont know oye oye) that s/he was referring to the claim by a pro gun person that 1 in 50 gun owners kills an innocent vs 1 in 10 police officers...

1 in 50 = 2%
2% x 80 million = 1.6 Million.

This is not proof sure, but it is pointing out a problem with "legitimate" gun ownership in the USA.

Thanks for the math lesson. I'm sure if Kakabia spent as much time doing his home work as he does fantasizing about owning a gun you wouldn't have had to point this out to him.

WHERE THE F*CK ARE THESE KIDS PARENTS!!!

Probably at the shooting range. ;)

So are cars,drugs, knives, rocks free speach, religion etc you want to live in Nerf land with no sharp edges?

Cars, knives, rocks, free speech, religion, and yes, even drugs, were not designed for the sole intention of harming living creatures.

[QUOTE]I wouldn't feel comfortable going to a gunshow that checked my biometric information or took my fingerprint.

I don't know of many psychopaths who would.

Oye oye-Yes, I do purchase from Private dealers (I try to) since it's easier and most of the time the prices are lower, plus I don't have to fill out any forms and there is no pay now and come back in a few days crap to go through, since the seller doesn't need to call NCIS.

If only Lee Oswald had someone like you to advise him.

In order to purchase from an FFL (Federal Firearms licensee) you must be 18 for shotguns/rifles, and in order to purchase a handgun from an FFL you must be 21.

Which makes sense since you can do more damage with a shotgun than a pistol.

From a private seller however, you must be 18 to purchase shotguns, rifles, and pistols.

We should do something to lower the age requirement. After all children need to defend themselves from pedophiles.

I bought a rifle from the government. Had it shipped right to my door, which was really cool since normally you have to go through an FFL. Www.odcmp.com

I'm so glad you are on their side.

Gun crime bad, all other crime ok. This seems to be the thoughts of the anti gun crowd.

Ban guns, gun crime goes down, and all other crime goes up. I guess this is an acceptible trade off to them, but not for me.

I find the 1 in 50 very suspect. I know well over 100 people that own firearms, and none has ever shot an innocent.

Want to know whats an even better defense against crime than a firearm? Getting to know your neighbors.

[QUOTE]Gun crime bad, all other crime ok. This seems to be the thoughts of the anti gun crowd.

All crime bad, guns make it worse.

Ban guns, gun crime goes down, and all other crime goes up. I guess this is an acceptible trade off to them, but not for me.

I can live with an idiot who abuses drugs begging for change in the street. I can't live with a gun toting civilian shooting me.

I find the 1 in 50 very suspect. I know well over 100 people that own firearms, and none has ever shot an innocent.

This statistic was provided by a gun advocate. (read the thread)

Want to know whats an even better defense against crime than a firearm? Getting to know your neighbors.

Agreed.

i would like to see the source for the 1 in 50 stat. I know that here in the midwest where firearm ownship is very common, its just not true.

I can live with an idiot who abuses drugs begging for change in the street. I can't live with a gun toting civilian shooting me
Until he breaks into your house to steal something to fund his fix.

I live in the country. i watch out for my neighbors and they look out for me. Best security system in the world. But then I live in an area where my parents haven't locked thier front door in decades, where i can leave my keys in my car and the doors unlocked and the car and everything in it will still be there when i get back, and every one and their dog has a firearm.

I grew up around firearms, and so did just about every one else around here. I can't remember the last time someone within a 100 miles was killed in a accidental shooting, and it would have made the news if it had happened. Course, most of us know to turn on the light before we pull the trigger.

i would like to see the source for the 1 in 50 stat. I know that here in the midwest where firearm ownship is very common, its just not true.

Then I suggest you review this thread and ask whichever one of your gun toting buddies posted that stat to provide you with a source.

Until he breaks into your house to steal something to fund his fix.

I support any kind of government organization that might help people in that situation to get back on their feet and become productive members of society. Using a gun is a short term solution to a long term problem.

I live in the country. i watch out for my neighbors and they look out for me. Best security system in the world. But then I live in an area where my parents haven't locked thier front door in decades, where i can leave my keys in my car and the doors unlocked and the car and everything in it will still be there when i get back, and every one and their dog has a firearm.

And how old does a dog have to be before it can acquire a gun permit?

I grew up around firearms, and so did just about every one else around here. I can't remember the last time someone within a 100 miles was killed in a accidental shooting, and it would have made the news if it had happened. Course, most of us know to turn on the light before we pull the trigger.

How many people live within that 100 mile radius?

Then I suggest you review this thread and ask whichever one of your gun toting buddies posted that stat to provide you with a source.



I support any kind of government organization that might help people in that situation to get back on their feet and become productive members of society. Using a gun is a short term solution to a long term problem.



And how old does a dog have to be before it can acquire a gun permit?



How many people live within that 100 mile radius?
A dog has to 18, in dog years of course.

Within 100 miles of here covers about 200,000 to 250,000, give or take.

What about Mein Kampf, the Bible and the Koran...they've killed plenty.

Cars, knives, rocks, free speech, religion, and yes, even drugs, were not designed for the sole intention of harming living creatures.

I guess getting raped or robed is a short term problem too? :rolleyes:


I support any kind of government organization that might help people in that situation to get back on their feet and become productive members of society. Using a gun is a short term solution to a long term problem.

A dog has to 18, in dog years of course.

Is their a background check on the animal? Psychological profiles to ensure the animal does not have homocidal tendencies?

Within 100 miles of here covers about 200,000 to 250,000, give or take.

And what is the ratio of gun owners to non-gun owners? Dogs included of course.

I guess getting raped or robed is a short term problem too? :rolleyes:

I can go back to work and make more money and replace my valuables. As far as heirlooms and objects of sentimental value, I'm not a materialistic person so anything I have of sentimental value is hardly worth stealing. If some one is raped this is a tragedy, but I'm sure any woman would rather be raped then have one of her children accidently shoot the other.

What about Mein Kampf, the Bible and the Koran...they've killed plenty.

These books never killed anyone. The idiots who take these books as a justification for murder did the killing and in recent history most of them used guns.

Ask a rape victim if they had a choice would they rather be raped or kill the rapist. The VAST majority would choose the later over the former.



I can go back to work and make more money and replace my valuables. As far as heirlooms and objects of sentimental value, I'm not a materialistic person so anything I have of sentimental value is hardly worth stealing. If some one is raped this is a tragedy, but I'm sure any woman would rather be raped then have one of her children accidently shoot the other.



These books never killed anyone. The idiots who take these books as a justification for murder did the killing and in recent history most of them used guns.

Since we all know that law-abiding citizens, those who register their guns, are the same folks that will go and hold up a convenience store.

Urgh. I wish all guns were outlawed in Canada but, since they aren't, I think the government has spent entirely too much time and too much of my tax money penalizing those who took the time to go and register. Seriously, what type of half-cocked idea was that, any way?

Mayor David Miller is a nice, ineffectual fellow and I wish him the best (although I miss Mayor Mel's constant offline comments - they made for great water cooler discussions). However, Miller needs to start focusing on the real reasons there's the recent rampant crime in Toronto. If he goes down an alley even remotely similar to the gun registry, I may have to move to Hull. ;)

Since we all know that law-abiding citizens, those who register their guns, are the same folks that will go and hold up a convenience store.

Stats on this please?

Urgh. I wish all guns were outlawed in Canada but, since they aren't, I think the government has spent entirely too much time and too much of my tax money penalizing those who took the time to go and register. Seriously, what type of half-cocked idea was that, any way?

Why don't you ask the Liberal Party of Canada?

Offtopic... Canada is 5th on the Human development index for 2005.

God I wish this thread would quit coming back from the dead, night after night...

Stats on this please?

Sorry - being a bit facetious there. I meant that phrase to pick up from my subject title.

Why don't you ask the Liberal Party of Canada?

I know. I'm ashamed to say I'm one of those Toronto folks who voted Liberal 2 out of the past 3 elections for lack of a better alternate. This past election I threw in the towel and voted Green in the hopes that they would get enough seats to have a presence in Ottawa. I won't vote Liberal, I won't vote Conservative, so I'm pinning my hopes on the new blood.

God I wish this thread would quit coming back from the dead, night after night...

Sorry, Dobbsworld. I didn't realize it was a dead thread (my first time on the forum!). I just found the subject title interesting.

I know. I'm ashamed to say I'm one of those Toronto folks who voted Liberal 2 out of the past 3 elections for lack of a better alternate. This past election I threw in the towel and voted Green in the hopes that they would get enough seats to have a presence in Ottawa. I won't vote Liberal, I won't vote Conservative, so I'm pinning my hopes on the new blood.In times of world economic crisis/recession, the fact that Canada has stayed above the clouds is an ode to the great governments we've had.

I vote liberal.

thread necromancy is what I live for :D



well that and chapping your ass. :p


God I wish this thread would quit coming back from the dead, night after night...

Ask a rape victim if they had a choice would they rather be raped or kill the rapist. The VAST majority would choose the later over the former.

Clearly, but then the issue is which world would you rather live in, one where rapes occur and there are no guns, or one where rapes occur and children shoot each other?

Where do you get this that kids are killing kids willy nilly? The FEW times it has happened it more a funtion of crappy parents. Teen drunk driving kills more kids but makes less news but I've yet to hear anybody say ban teen drivers, and that save more live by an order of magnatude. So until you start to advocate the ban on teen driving you are a hypocrite because until you do it's not about the kids it's about control. You want to control my life and my right to bare arms. If you want to save kids really ban all under 21 drivers.


Clearly, but then the issue is which world would you rather live in, one where rapes occur and there are no guns, or one where rapes occur and children shoot each other?

Where do you get this that kids are killing kids willy nilly? The FEW times it has happened it more a funtion of crappy parents. Teen drunk driving kills more kids but makes less news but I've yet to hear anybody say ban teen drivers, and that save more live by an order of magnatude. So until you start to advocate the ban on teen driving you are a hypocrite because until you do it's not about the kids it's about control. You want to control my life and my right to bare arms. If you want to save kids really ban all under 21 drivers.

I've posted several examples of children ranging from infants to highschool students using guns to kill other children, in some cases teachers. I have also provided a statistic that demonstrates these are not isolated incidents.

With regards to teen driving, teen drivers aren't banned, but drunk driving is.

With regards to me trying to control you, that's hardly the issue. I simply don't think guns have any value in human evolution and believe eliminating them is a step forward. If you think this is an infringment on your civil liberties I suggest you take up a new hobby. Maybe learning to build a bubble would best suit you.

I've posted several examples of children ranging from infants to highschool students using guns to kill other children, in some cases teachers. I have also provided a statistic that demonstrates these are not isolated incidents.

With regards to teen driving, teen drivers aren't banned, but drunk driving is.

With regards to me trying to control you, that's hardly the issue. I simply don't think guns have any value in human evolution and believe eliminating them is a step forward. If you think this is an infringment on your civil liberties I suggest you take up a new hobby. Maybe learning to build a bubble would best suit you.

Yeah, but how many tmes have you heard of teens beating up other teens to death for stupid reasons? Or running over others because of their stupidity? I have heard too many stories on the news where some dumbass 16 year old wants to show off how tough he is by flying down the road at really high speeds, then killing another kid or person when they loose control! Hell, you want to ban guns, try banning teen drivers under 21!

I didn't say drunk driving, I said ALL teen driving should be banned, as it would save their lives and that's what its all about isn't it?



I've posted several examples of children ranging from infants to highschool students using guns to kill other children, in some cases teachers. I have also provided a statistic that demonstrates these are not isolated incidents.

With regards to teen driving, teen drivers aren't banned, but drunk driving is.

With regards to me trying to control you, that's hardly the issue. I simply don't think guns have any value in human evolution and believe eliminating them is a step forward. If you think this is an infringment on your civil liberties I suggest you take up a new hobby. Maybe learning to build a bubble would best suit you.

I didn't say drunk driving, I said ALL teen driving should be banned, as it would save their lives and that's what its all about isn't it?

What I posted was in response to this statement you posted.

Teen drunk driving kills more kids

Evidently you feel teen drunk driving is a problem, so do I, therefore I support any laws that prohibit drunk driving.

Yeah, but how many tmes have you heard of teens beating up other teens to death for stupid reasons? Or running over others because of their stupidity? I have heard too many stories on the news where some dumbass 16 year old wants to show off how tough he is by flying down the road at really high speeds, then killing another kid or person when they loose control! Hell, you want to ban guns, try banning teen drivers under 21!

As I mentioned earlier I propose to ban guns because they serve no practical purpose other than to harm living beings. Cars, knives, even teens, have a practical purpose. The fact that gun advocates are still trying to use this ploy so late in the game is just revealing your desperation for a sound argument.

As I mentioned earlier I propose to ban guns because they serve no practical purpose other than to harm living beings. Cars, knives, even teens, have a practical purpose. The fact that gun advocates are still trying to use this ploy so late in the game is just revealing your desperation for a sound argument.

Or maybe it's more to the point that any arguement made that you can't dispute you either ignore or use ad hominems against the poster.

It's already been shown multiple times that firearms are used more to save lives by citizens than to take them and various other uses for them that don't involve "harming living beings". There's also many uses that involve "harming living beings" that are necessary for the environment and the safety of farms, ranches, and the people living on them. But none of that really matters to you, does it?

How's the research on Athens, TN coming? That's another one you ignored.

How's the research on Athens, TN coming? That's another one you ignored.

Didn't they make a movie about Athens TN overthrow?

NOT WHAT I SAID AT ALL.

One more time ...Teen driving kills teenagers by the thousands.

National Teen Driving Statistics
Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death for teenagers.
16 year-olds have higher crash rates than drivers of any other age.
It is estimated that 16-year-olds are 3 times more likely to die in a motor vehicle crash than the average of all drivers.
3,657 drivers age 15-20 died in car crashes in 2003, making up 14% of all driver involved in fatal crashes, and 18% of all drivers involved in police-reported crashes (NHTSA).
25% of teen drivers killed in 2003 had a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) of .08 or greater. A BAC of .08 is the level which all states define drunk driving.
$40.8 billion was the estimated economic impact of auto accidents involving 15-20 year old drivers in 2002 (NHTSA).
Inexperience behind the wheel is the leading cause of teenage crashes.
In 2001, two thirds of teens killed in auto accidents were not wearing seat belts.
Almost half of the crash deaths involving 16-year-old drivers in 2003 occurred when the beginning drivers were driving with teen passengers (IIHS).
Statistics show that 16 and 17-year-old driver death rates increase with each additional passenger (IIHS).
Graduated drivers license programs appear to be making a difference. The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety reports that the overall number of 16-year-old drivers fell from 1,084 in 1993 to 938 in 2003 despite an 18% increase in the 16-year-old population.

Unless you are a complete hypocrite you must immediately take up the ban on teen driving as your banner, because as you stated you think no child should be killed by accident. I even think you should be for banning all cars and motor vehicles period as this is the logical extension of your arguement.

Ban cars 1st then I'll listen about banning guns, it should be easier to ban cars as there is no constitutional guarenty of a right to drive.

What I posted was in response to this statement you posted.



Evidently you feel teen drunk driving is a problem, so do I, therefore I support any laws that prohibit drunk driving.

There is absolutely no NEED for the private automobile it could be abolished in favor of mass transit and busses.


As I mentioned earlier I propose to ban guns because they serve no practical purpose other than to harm living beings. Cars, knives, even teens, have a practical purpose. The fact that gun advocates are still trying to use this ploy so late in the game is just revealing your desperation for a sound argument.

There is absolutely no NEED for the private automobile it could be abolished in favor of mass transit and busses.

It really doesn't matter what arguement you make. OO is incapable of seeing any "practical purpose" behind firearms besides murder and mayhem. No amount of reality will ever penetrate that until something happens to himself or someone he cares about that could have been prevented by a firearm.

Clearly, but then the issue is which world would you rather live in, one where rapes occur and there are no guns, or one where rapes occur and children shoot each other?

And this, children, is what we call a "False Dichotomy".

NOT WHAT I SAID AT ALL.

A quote from post #567 submitted by Unspeakable

Teen drunk driving kills more kids but makes less news but I've yet to hear anybody say ban teen drivers, and that save more live by an order of magnatude. So until you start to advocate the ban on teen driving you are a hypocrite because until you do it's not about the kids it's about control.

One more time ...Teen driving kills teenagers by the thousands.

National Teen Driving Statistics
Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death for teenagers.
16 year-olds have higher crash rates than drivers of any other age.
It is estimated that 16-year-olds are 3 times more likely to die in a motor vehicle crash than the average of all drivers.

3,657 drivers age 15-20 died in car crashes in 2003, making up 14% of all driver involved in fatal crashes, and 18% of all drivers involved in police-reported crashes (NHTSA).

Is this from lack of experience or lack of maturity? If it can be proven that this is a result of lack of maturity then the age requirement should be raised. If it is from lack of experience then first time drivers should be given a probationary period in which they are only allowed to drive while accompanied by an experienced driver.

25% of teen drivers killed in 2003 had a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) of .08 or greater. A BAC of .08 is the level which all states define drunk driving.

Clearly this is a problem of drunk driving which, I believe, is already illegal in the U.S.

$40.8 billion was the estimated economic impact of auto accidents involving 15-20 year old drivers in 2002 (NHTSA).
Inexperience behind the wheel is the leading cause of teenage crashes.

If this is the case, as I have stated earlier, driving test standards should be raised and new drivers should be given a probationary period in order to learn the rules of the road under proper supervision.

In 2001, two thirds of teens killed in auto accidents were not wearing seat belts.

Again, I was under the impression that driving without a seatbelt is against the law.

Almost half of the crash deaths involving 16-year-old drivers in 2003 occurred when the beginning drivers were driving with teen passengers (IIHS).
Statistics show that 16 and 17-year-old driver death rates increase with each additional passenger (IIHS).
Graduated drivers license programs appear to be making a difference. The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety reports that the overall number of 16-year-old drivers fell from 1,084 in 1993 to 938 in 2003 despite an 18% increase in the 16-year-old population.

I see some of my ideas are being implemented. Good to see there are some law makers in the U.S. who represent the population's best interests.

Unless you are a complete hypocrite you must immediately take up the ban on teen driving as your banner, because as you stated you think no child should be killed by accident.

No child should be killed by an accident that is preventable.

I even think you should be for banning all cars and motor vehicles period as this is the logical extension of your arguement.

Ban cars 1st then I'll listen about banning guns, it should be easier to ban
cars as there is no constitutional guarenty of a right to drive.

I definitely encourage improving rural and urban public transportation systems and the reduction of personal vehicles. I would even be for improving the safety of home utensils such as knives by passing laws that compel manufacturers and distributors to sell them in child proof sheaths. However, since most people living in industrialized societies require vehicles to go about their daily business I will not promote a ban on personal vehicles altogether. With regards to your attempt to compare the use of personal vehicles to gun ownership. How often does the average U.S. citizen require the use of a car for survival? How often does the average U.S. citizen require a fire arm?

absolutely without question private ownership of automobiles is not necessary for the private citizen only for law enforcement and emergency personal while not convenient we could all "make do" with public transport. You must now certainly see my point and all teen driving should be banned, how could you not ban something that kills so many children?

Don't you care about the CHILDREN?


A quote from post #567 submitted by Unspeakable





Is this from lack of experience or lack of maturity? If it can be proven that this is a result of lack of maturity then the age requirement should be raised. If it is from lack of experience then first time drivers should be given a probationary period in which they are only allowed to drive while accompanied by an experienced driver.



Clearly this is a problem of drunk driving which, I believe, is already illegal in the U.S.



If this is the case, as I have stated earlier, driving test standards should be raised and new drivers should be given a probationary period in order to learn the rules of the road under proper supervision.



Again, I was under the impression that driving without a seatbelt is against the law.



I see some of my ideas are being implemented. Good to see there are some law makers in the U.S. who represent the population's best interests.



No child should be killed by an accident that is preventable.



I definitely encourage improving rural and urban public transportation systems and the reduction of personal vehicles. I would even be for improving the safety of home utensils such as knives by passing laws that compel manufacturers and distributors to sell them in child proof sheaths. However, since most people living in industrialized societies require vehicles to go about their daily business I will not promote a ban on personal vehicles altogether. With regards to your attempt to compare the use of personal vehicles to gun ownership. How often does the average U.S. citizen require the use of a car for survival? How often does the average U.S. citizen require a fire arm?

absolutely without question private ownership of automobiles is not necessary for the private citizen only for law enforcement and emergency personal while not convenient we could all "make do" with public transport. You must now certainly see my point and all teen driving should be banned, how could you not ban something that kills so many children?

Don't you care about the CHILDREN?

It's become obvious that you don't, since you have ingored improvements I have suggested to existing laws that would prevent automobile accidents in the future. With regard to privately owned vehicles being a necessity, they are. I can see how public transportation, taxis and ambulances would enable most people in an urban environements to "get by". But what about those who need them to work? Ie. Doctors, plummers, carpenters, pizza delivery and other people in the service industry making housecalls.

But why won't you seen the truth cars just kill, they are mearly penis's to be driven by the underequiped. You don't NEED a car. Teens definatly don't NEED to be able to drive if you really cared you'd lobby for a driving ban in TO to save children you don't NEED a car.


It's become obvious that you don't, since you have ingored improvements I have suggested to existing laws that would prevent automobile accidents in the future. With regard to privately owned vehicles being a necessity, they are. I can see how public transportation, taxis and ambulances would enable most people in an urban environements to "get by". But what about those who need them to work? Ie. Doctors, plummers, carpenters, pizza delivery and other people in the service industry making housecalls.

But why won't you seen the truth cars just kill,

Aside from the fact that they are also used as a means of transportation this statement is correct.

they are mearly penis's to be driven by the underequiped.

I'd like to see the condom for your car.

You don't NEED a car.

I don't have a car.

Teens definatly don't NEED to be able to drive

Unless ofcourse their job demands they travel long distances in a short amount of time or must transport objects too heavy to carry.

if you really cared you'd lobby for a driving ban in TO to save children you don't NEED a car.

Once again, I don't have a car. But there are people who depend on motor vehicles for their livelyhood, so while I support legislation that ensures inexperienced drivers are properly trained, I will not propose a ban on cars.

P.S. This direction in which you have chosen to shift the debate isn't reducing my respect for your intellect in the least. ;)

So you can see the point I'm trying to make?


Aside from the fact that they are also used as a means of transportation this statement is correct.



I'd like to see the condom for your car.



I don't have a car.



Unless ofcourse their job demands they travel long distances in a short amount of time or must transport objects too heavy to carry.



Once again, I don't have a car. But there are people who depend on motor vehicles for their livelyhood, so while I support legislation that ensures inexperienced drivers are properly trained, I will not propose a ban on cars.

P.S. This direction in which you have chosen to shift the debate isn't reducing my respect for your intellect in the least. ;)

We don't need no registration
we don't need no gun control
no dark sarcasm in the gun shops
liberals leave our guns alone
hey, liberals! Leave our guns alone

We don't need no registration
we don't need no gun control
no dark sarcasm in the gun shops
liberals leave our guns alone
hey, liberals! Leave our guns alone
Actually the Floyds are pacifists. And Roger Waters is an ardent anti-Bush campaigner. :D

When will this thread just frickin' die, already?

Pink Floyd? What?

The hell's this got to do with T.O. anymore - ?

We don't need no registration
we don't need no gun control
no dark sarcasm in the gun shops
liberals leave our guns alone
hey, liberals! Leave our guns alone

:D

I love it!

So you can see the point I'm trying to make?

If you are trying to make the point that banning guns is the same as banning vehicles I'd have to say that you've failed miserably. Motor vehicles transport people and property. Guns don't.

...Unless of course you are planning on firing yourself out of a cannon. ;)

When will this thread just frickin' die, already?

Pink Floyd? What?

The hell's this got to do with T.O. anymore - ?

If you don't like this thread why do you post in it? It only encourages responses like this one.

Actually the Floyds are pacifists. And Roger Waters is an ardent anti-Bush campaigner. :D

How can anyone be anti-bush?

How can anyone be anti-bush?

Now this is a very ignorant statement. Unless its sarcasm.

If you are trying to make the point that banning guns is the same as banning vehicles I'd have to say that you've failed miserably. Motor vehicles transport people and property. Guns don't.

...Unless of course you are planning on firing yourself out of a cannon. ;)

Poor Oye Oye, such a sad little world you live in. Crime is down, murders are down, and more people own and are buying firearms than ever before, especially those who were previously "card-carrying, antigun liberal" types .

http://www.boston.com/news/weather/articles/2005/09/11/halted_gun_sales_infuriate_customers/

Just goes to show, a "liberal" is just a "conservative" who hasn't been mugged.


Here's a nice letter from another:

I have been reading your blog for a while, learning about the subjects you write about...and even prior to N. Orleans, I was leaning towards your position, and possibly arming our family.

Can I tell you what a radical departure that is for me? And then maybe why it shouldn't have been in some ways? I was raised in a religious Jewish household. Religious Jews just don't hunt; we're not raised in a culture of guns (outside of Israel, in which this has changed things). I was also a child of the liberal 60's, thought guns kill and all that nonsense.

My dad, however, was a survivor of Auschwitz. My grandparents were murdered there. And it is now a cliche, but it's true, the 'average' Jew could not defend themselves. So that got me to thinkin...and then seeing how it starts to look like America could end up like many S. American countries, with gated communities and barbed wire or broken glass up on the walls of the compounds...and I used to think this was the siren song of the Cassandras, but New Orleans showed that ain't necessarily true...well, all this speaks of the need to have some protection.

Of course, we had someone, a rabbi, say in his 30's, walking in his house, not too far from where we live, and he was mugged by a man with a gun. Fortunately, and almost unusually in these cases, in spite of the fact this rabbi had literally nothing on him, the creep ran without shooting. But this happened basically in MY neighborhood. And all it takes is one occasion (though otherwise, it's a relatively safe area, whatever that means!).

I can't think of any reason not to. Child safety? That's all just TEACHING, like it is with a hundred other lethal things we have inside the house.

I don't want to go on too long, but I do hope either we'll travel near someone on your list offering shooting sessions (and yes, I have never shot a gun in my life, never thought I'd think about it, which is the point of all this) or someone will be added to the list close by to home, Saint Louis, MO and I can take 'em up on the offer.

http://www.smallestminority.blogspot.com/


McClain and Aronson said the number of first-time buyers was not as high as it was the summer Baton Rouge had a serial killer on the prowl, when McClain estimated 80 percent of the new customers were first-time gun buyers.

Nevertheless, McClain said his safety classes filled up as well.

http://www.2theadvocate.com/stories/091505/bus_biz001.shtml


Mayor Bobby Bright is unapologetic and stands firm behind comments he made this week about the need for residents to buy guns and learn how to use them to protect themselves from criminals.

It is a solid concept for people to protect themselves since the criminal justice system is not working, Bright said.

"In my opinion, people need to buy a weapon, buy a gun, ed-
ucate themselves on how to use that gun and they need to use that weapon to protect themselves from the criminal element out there," he said Thursday.

http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050916/NEWS/509160347/1001




http://scottbieser.com/wakeup_call.html

Katrina educates world
on need for owning guns

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: September 13, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern


By Erich Pratt
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com


"All our operators are busy right now. Please remain on the line and an operator will be with you shortly. Your call is important to us."

Can you imagine any words more horrifying after dialing 9-1-1? Your life's in danger, but there's no one available to help you.

For several days, life was absolutely terrifying for many New Orleans residents who got stranded in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. There were no operators ... there were no phone calls being handled.


Heck, there was no 9-1-1. Even if the phone lines had been working, there were no police officers waiting to be dispatched.

Hundreds of New Orleans police officers had fled the city. Some took their badges and threw them out the windows of their cars as they sped away. Others participated in the looting of the city.

To be sure, there are many officers who have acted honorably. Many have given their best effort to apprehend dangerous thugs, even while grieving the loss of their own family members.

But thousands of residents were trapped inside a city, forced to fend for their own safety and well-being.

"It was pandemonium for a couple of nights," said Charlie Hackett, a New Orleans resident. "We just felt that when they got done with the stores, they'd come to the homes."

Hackett was right ... which is why he and his neighbor, John Carolan, stood guard over their homes to ward off looters who, rummaging through the neighborhoods, were smashing windows and ransacking stores.

Armed looters did eventually come to Carolan's house and demanded his generator. But Carolan showed them his gun and they left.

No wonder, then, that gun stores – which weren't under water – were selling firearms at a record pace to people looking to defend themselves. "I've got people like you wouldn't believe, lots of people, coming in and buying handguns," said Briley Reed, the assistant manager of the E-Z Pawn store in Baton Rouge.

"I've even had soldiers coming in here buying guns," Reed said.

Indeed, firearms were the hottest commodity in the days following the massive destruction. In Gulfport, Miss., Ron Roland, 51, used his firearm to stop looters from rummaging through his storm-damaged property.

Roland and his son even performed a citizen's arrest on one plunderer and then warned future thieves by posting the following message in his yard: "NO TRESPASSERS! ARMED HOMEOWNERS."

Signs like this were common throughout the Gulf Coast region in the days following Katrina. And it should serve as a reminder to us that the police can't always be there to protect us.

We should have learned this lesson more than a decade ago when the entire country saw horrifying images during the Los Angeles riots of 1992.

For several days, that city was in complete turmoil as stores were looted and burned. Motorists were dragged from their cars and beaten.

Further aggravating the situation, police were very slow in responding to the crisis. Many Guardsmen, after being mobilized to the affected areas, sat by and watched the violence because their rifles were low on ammunition.

But not everybody in Los Angeles suffered. In some of the hot spots, Korean merchants were able to successfully protect their stores with semi-automatic firearms.

In areas where armed citizens banded together for self-protection, their businesses were spared, while others (which were left unprotected) burned to the ground.

Press reports described how life-long gun-control supporters were even running to gun stores to buy an item they never thought they would need – a gun. Tragically, they were surprised (and outraged!) to learn there was a 15-day waiting period for firearms.

Fast forward more than a decade: It seems we still haven't learned the lessons from previous tragedies. Rather than arming the poor, defenseless survivors who are stranded in New Orleans, Police Superintendent Edwin Compass III has actually ordered the very opposite – the confiscation of legally-owned firearms!

These guns were the only thing that prevented good people from becoming victims in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.



But now, will the police superintendent provide 24-hour, round-the-clock protection for each of these disarmed families? Will he make himself personally liable for anyone who is injured or killed as a result of being prevented from defending himself or his family?

When your life is in danger, you don't want to rely on a police force that is stretched way too thin. And the last thing you want to hear when you call 9-1-1 is: "All our operators are busy right now ..."

That might just be the last thing you ever hear.


Halted gun sales infuriate customers
By Sasha Talcott, Globe Staff | September 11, 2005

BATON ROUGE, La. -- As fearful residents rush to stock up on guns, Wal-Mart, one of the region's biggest suppliers, abruptly stopped selling them at 40 stores scattered throughout the Gulf Coast.

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Sign up for: Globe Headlines e-mail | Breaking News Alerts The move infuriated some Wal-Mart customers in this fiercely progun region, some of whom said the big chain left them without protection as the violence increased after Hurricane Katrina.

''We had a lot of chaos," said Donald Goff, who was sitting in a white pickup outside a local Wal-Mart store. ''They should be open to sell guns. They should not be doing this to people."

Smaller stores are eagerly filling the void. Spillway Sportsman, near Baton Rouge, sold 172 guns in one three-day period after the hurricane, when normally it might sell 15. One mother came in to buy her first gun after she and her two children, ages 9 and 12, witnessed a slaying on the streets of New Orleans, said Scott Roe, Spillway's owner.

''Her comment was, 'I was a card-carrying, antigun liberal -- not anymore,' " Roe said. ''She said, 'I'm going back home, and I am not going back unarmed.' "

qoutable material

A Wal-Mart spokeswoman, Karen Burk, attributed the company's decision to pull guns from the shelves to ''some very fluid circumstances and changing situations" in the region. She did not elaborate far beyond that. ''We're trying to take care of our customers and community and be a responsible retailer at the same time," Burk said.

In addition to its decision to stop gun sales at 40 stores, Wal-Mart also has placed severe restrictions on gun sales at some other stores in the area. Executives ordered the guns removed from their glass display cases and put into a vault instead. At those stores, customers who want to purchase a gun must select it through a catalog.

Burk said the retailer has no date set to return guns to the stores.

Wal-Mart's decision to stop gun sales also earned it praise from several customers, who said police would protect them from any trouble.

funny, I didn't see many of them protecting citizens in NO after Katrina



''Why can't we get along? This is a time of crisis," said Mike White of Kenner, La. He said people who need guns for legitimate reasons, such as hunting, would not be buying now.



Gun sales have become a hot-button issue for Wal-Mart, the nation's largest retailer. Filmmaker Michael Moore blasted the store's gun sales in his documentary ''Bowling for Columbine." In January, the company agreed to pay $14.5 million to settle a lawsuit filed by California's attorney general that accused it of violating state gun laws.

But in post-Katrina Louisiana, a lot of anger erupted when the retailer took guns off its shelves.

Isiah Smith said looters stole cars in his neighborhood and broke into homes as he fled from Laplace to Baton Rouge to escape the storm.

He said Wal-Mart should not have stopped gun sales. ''People have to protect themselves," he said.

Here's the story,
Of a bitter lady,
Who was raising up three scary fascist girls. . .

All of them craved gun control,
like their leader ....

.... and so-cial-ist reforms.

Here's the story,
of a man named Scheister,

Who was busy with three stooges of his own . . .


They were four tools,
making laws together,
. . . Yet they were all alone.

Till the one day when this Brady met this Scheister,
And they knew it was much more than a hunch, . . .

That this group, could greatly harm the country,

And that's the way they all became the Brady Bunch.
The Brady Bunch.
The Brady Bunch.
That's the way they all became the Brady Bunch!

Katrina educates world
on need for owning gunsActually it educates the world on proper funding of levee maintenance.

Here's the story,
Of a bitter lady,
Who was raising up three scary fascist girls. . .

All of them craved gun control,
like their leader ....

.... and so-cial-ist reforms.

Here's the story,
of a man named Scheister,

Who was busy with three stooges of his own . . .


They were four tools,
making laws together,
. . . Yet they were all alone.

Till the one day when this Brady met this Scheister,
And they knew it was much more than a hunch, . . .

That this group, could greatly harm the country,

And that's the way they all became the Brady Bunch.
The Brady Bunch.
The Brady Bunch.
That's the way they all became the Brady Bunch!

This is even better! :D

Now this is a very ignorant statement. Unless its sarcasm.

How could it be sarcasm?

How could it be sarcasm?
Continuing to bring this thread back is known as "grave digging". Just thought I would make you aware of that.

Continuing to bring this thread back is known as "grave digging". Just thought I would make you aware of that.

Well your response isn't helping it to disappear now is it?