NationStates Jolt Archive

Or the Second Axis.

THINK ABOUT IT!

The U.S., Germany, and China could team up.

The U.S. has an amazing and unbeatable navy.

Germany has the Luftwaffe...and nothing else really.

China has the largest population in the world, lots of soldiers...and nothing else.

Thus, our new Axis of Evil can conquer places like Iran, Israel, Palestine, Mexico, France, Africa, Anarctica, Taiwan, North Korea, and Mexico. Who thinks it's a good idea?

what exactly does germany add to the Axis? The U.S. and China both have larger and more advanced Airforces, more and more advanced tanks and are generaly better than germany (in a military sense) theres no logic to grouping germany in with U.S. and China

US would be Germany, China would be Japan, but we still need an Italy.

I think Australia would make a good Italy.

<_<;

we already have an Axis of Evil. MICROSOFT!

they're everywhere... and slowly taking over!

what exactly does germany add to the Axis?

A dash of Weltschmertz, a finger of Schnapps, and a pinch of the ol' Leibensraum, baby!

Or the Second Axis.

THINK ABOUT IT!

The U.S., Germany, and China could team up.

The U.S. has an amazing and unbeatable navy.

Germany has the Luftwaffe...and nothing else really.

China has the largest population in the world, lots of soldiers...and nothing else.

Thus, our new Axis of Evil can conquer places like Iran, Israel, Palestine, Mexico, France, Africa, Anarctica, Taiwan, North Korea, and Mexico. Who thinks it's a good idea?

Germany's airforce sucks.

The US has the best military in the world, bar none.

I think it should be US and Italy. Great food for Italy and the great military for the US.

China's military sucks all around. It is more of a museum piece collection.

Germany has the Luftwaffe...and nothing else really.Hm... only that Germany is incredibly pacifist and I wouldn't consider the Luftwaffe the best in the world... Israel has a darn good airforce though... Although China has the world's largest.

You could check here (http://www.globalsecurity.org) to compile your list, if you wanted to.

Actually, that's a stupid idea. Maybe you should stick to terrorizing a fake country on NS, than actually doing it in real life.

I can't think of anything else to say.


:mp5: :sniper: :mp5:
The Armed Republic Of Cruel Tyrany

we already have an Axis of Evil. MICROSOFT!

they're everywhere... and slowly taking over!

I think theyre teaming up with Walmart and Tesco's to be honest.

The US has the best military in the world, bar none.
I know for a fact that in the 80s, the Bundeswehr (Germany) and the IDF (Israel) were the best militaries in a unit for unit comparison. While I doubt that the Germans still (or ever) held that title, I doubt Israel lost it...

Edit: But I forget:
..laerod, canada6, tepoztecal..
axis of evil. :D

China's military sucks all around. It is more of a museum piece collection.

Well, except for that sh*tload of IR/IC-BMs with MIRV nuke warheads ;)

Or the Second Axis.

THINK ABOUT IT!

The U.S., Germany, and China could team up.

The U.S. has an amazing and unbeatable navy.

Germany has the Luftwaffe...and nothing else really.

China has the largest population in the world, lots of soldiers...and nothing else.

Thus, our new Axis of Evil can conquer places like Iran, Israel, Palestine, Mexico, France, Africa, Anarctica, Taiwan, North Korea, and Mexico. Who thinks it's a good idea?
Antarctica is neutral. No one controls it. It is uninhabitable.

Hm... only that Germany is incredibly pacifist and I wouldn't consider the Luftwaffe the best in the world... Israel has a darn good airforce though... Although China has the world's largest.

You could check here (http://www.globalsecurity.org) to compile your list, if you wanted to.
The RAF could kick those Israelis. An axis of Good would be US, UK, India, Taiwan and Australia. It's perfect!
US: Lots of technology and money, can fight well when not shooting their own side
UK: World's best armed forces, brings experience and technology
India & Australia: Ferocious warriors and always ready for a scrap
Taiwan: Easy access to China!
Group up this team and the rest of the (evil) world beware!

Well, except for that sh*tload of IR/IC-BMs with MIRV nuke warheads ;)
Not really. They seem to have 400 nukes but only 40 missiles, many of them old so they're not that much of a threat. In modern warfare their brand of infantry and armour heavy amry cannot stand up to the sheer air power of many nations.

Antarctica is neutral. No one controls it. It is uninhabitable.Uninhabited, not uninhabitable. There's people that stay there for some time, mainly scientists.

The RAF could kick those Israelis. I don't know. The Israeli Airforce has been inflicting heavy virtual casaulties on anyone that tried them in maneuvers, including the US and Soviet Union...

Well, except for that sh*tload of IR/IC-BMs with MIRV nuke warheads ;)

It is said as far as China is concerned that nearly 2/3rds of their arsenal is broken. Meaning it doesn't work. For the US 1/2th of the nuclear arsenal doesn't work. For Russia it is close to 75%.

China's Army mainly consists of mainly the obsolete T-55. These are totally worthless as far as technology is concerned.

Not really. They seem to have 400 nukes but only 40 missiles, many of them old so they're not that much of a threat. In modern warfare their brand of infantry and armour heavy amry cannot stand up to the sheer air power of many nations.China still has the largest air force around, as far as I remember. That qualifies for "air power" doesn't it. And their weapons are currently undergoing a serious shift in equipment (look it up if you don't believe me). That's why they want the EU arms embargo lifted, so they can equip even faster.

China's airforce is crap.. even if it is the largest. Stop looking at numbers. They don't mean a damn thing. Nearly 80% of China's fighter jet arsenal consists of MiG-15s, MiG-17s and MiG-19s.. these are totally outdated. They are horrible and kept in poor condition.

It is said as far as China is concerned that nearly 2/3rds of their arsenal is broken. Meaning it doesn't work. For the US 1/2th of the nuclear arsenal doesn't work. For Russia it is close to 75%.

China's Army mainly consists of mainly the obsolete T-55. These are totally worthless as far as technology is concerned.To refute Mesa's claim:
The Type 98 was first introduced to the public during the parade on October 1, 1999, marking the 50th Anniverary of the founding of the People's Republic China. While initially confused as the Type 96, further study revealed that the 18 tanks on display during the parade were in fact a member of the Type 80 family of Chinese Main Battle Tanks. Taken from the Type 96 entry on the following:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/ground.htm

You didn't refute anything. The russians introduce a few new tanks recently.. that doesn't mean they are the bulk of their armored divisions. The bulk of China's armored divisions are still T-55s (either categorized as Type-59s or Type-62s).

China's airforce is crap.. even if it is the largest. Stop looking at numbers. They don't mean a damn thing. Nearly 80% of China's fighter jet arsenal consists of MiG-15s, MiG-17s and MiG-19s.. these are totally outdated. They are horrible and kept in poor condition.Wrong again. Take a look at the equipment list on this:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/plaaf-equip.htm
This is the entry for the Su-27 Flanker:
The introduction in the mid-1970s of the USAF F-15 Eagle and F-16 Fighting Falcon put the then Eastern bloc fighter pilots at a distinct disadvantage. The deployment of the Su-27 Flanker and MiG-29 Fulcrum in the mid-1980s leveled the playing field.The Peoples Liberation Army Air Force isn't a bunch of junk, though technologically behind the US. They're working on catching up, though.

You didn't refute anything. The russians introduce a few new tanks recently.. that doesn't mean they are the bulk of their armored divisions. The bulk of China's armored divisions are still T-55s (either categorized as Type-59s or Type-62s).Back it up with some data please. I've done you the favor.

My... he keeps ignoring the FACTS! The SU-27 is very limited in numbers.

The bulk of China's airforce is still based on the MiG-17 and MiG-19. :rolleyes:

Dude, you didn't back up anything. You didn't even bother providing any figures or numbers of what China has. You just said China introduced new tanks. So did Russia. The fact remains they have very few in service.

The axis of
Every
Villian
Is
Lemons
!

The reality:

Real numbers:

http://www.softwar.net/plaaf.html

China's Airforce:
Chengdu J-10 5
Chengdu J-7 322 MiG-21
Eurocopter AS332 6
Guizhou JJ-7 50 MiG-21
HAIG K-8J 25
Harbin H-5 150 Il-28
Harbin HJ-5 87 Il-28
Harbin Hz-5 40 Il-28
Harbin Y-11 15
Harbin Y-12 2
Harbin Z-6 30
Harbin Z-9 25 AS365N
Ilyushin KL-2000 2
Ilyushin IL-18 10
Ilyushin IL-76 20
MiG (* see note) MiG-31 24
Mil MI-6 3
Mil MI-8 30
Mil MI-17 24
Mil MI-171 69
Mil MI-171v-5 35
Nanchang CJ-6 1466 MiG-19
Nanchang Q-5 500
Shaanxi Y-8 25 An-12
Shenyang J-5 130 MiG-17PF
Shenyang J-6 1000 MiG-19
Shenyang J-7 300 MiG-21
Shenyang J-8/-8II 180
Shenyang JJ-6 150 MiG-19
Shenyang JZ-6 100 MiG-19
Shenyang J-11 100 SU-27SK
Shenyang J-11 4 SU-27SKUB
Shijiazhuang Y-5 300 An-2
Sikorsky S-70 22
Sukhoi SU-30 76

Read the bolded section. Pay close attention to the fact that the bulk of China's airforce is based on the MiG-19, a totally obsolete fighter.

My... he keeps ignoring the FACTS! The SU-27 is very limited in numbers.

The bulk of China's airforce is still based on the MiG-17 and MiG-19. :rolleyes:180 is not a small amount. And look at the numbers shifting...

Look at the numbers shifting. :rolleyes: Shows you know little about fighter jets. The SU-27 isn't anything good and it isn't going to be an up-to-date with the release of the JSF and F-22 for example.

I love fighter/interceptor jets... and I know what I'm talking about.

Real numbers:
<snip>
Read the bolded section. Pay close attention to the fact that the bulk of China's airforce is based on the MiG-19, a totally obsolete fighter.
Thanks for providing a source, but I know for a fact that a friend of mine uses it for his briefings. He claims that "it does more for the enemy than for us."
Your source also had no projections or dates, and when I looked at the website itself, it looked rather suspicious. Not that the numbers are wrong, but I'll put my money with GlobalSecurity if it's good enough for a Captain of the US Army...

Thanks for providing a source, but I know for a fact that a friend of mine uses it for his briefings. He claims that "it does more for the enemy than for us."
Your source also had no projections or dates, and when I looked at the website itself, it looked rather suspicious. Not that the numbers are wrong, but I'll put my money with GlobalSecurity if it's good enough for a Captain of the US Army...

The numbers were based on 2004 projections I believe. And you do little for your own credibility by not acknowledging the fact that I'm right about this. I'm right on the money. China's airforce is still based on MiG-17 and MiG-19s. Please accept the fact that you're wrong, and that these are totally worthless as a military asset these days.

Look at the numbers shifting. :rolleyes: Shows you know little about fighter jets. The SU-27 isn't anything good and it isn't going to be an up-to-date with the release of the JSF and F-22 for example.

I love fighter/interceptor jets... and I know what I'm talking about.I'm actually interested to know the difference between the JSF and the F-22 other than that the JSF is the project name and F-22 the US Military name. This isn't an attack, I'd just like to know.

I'm actually interested to know the difference between the JSF and the F-22 other than that the JSF is the project name and F-22 the US Military name. This isn't an attack, I'd just like to know.

:rolleyes: Read before you attack my knowledge.

The JSF is based on the F-35, not F-22.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-35.htm

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-22.htm

Those sources are not refutable. They are from the Federation of American Scientists...

:rolleyes: Read before you attack my knowledge.

The JSF is based on the F-35, not F-22.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-35.htm

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-22.htm

Those sources are not refutable. They are from the Federation of American Scientists...Well, it does say the F-35 resulted from the JSF program. Thanks for the information.
I do read before I "attack".
No source is irrefutable. Sources can be reliable, which I'll grant this is. I was a bit suspicious of the other one, but this one looks fine. (although I'm pretty sure some people would be loath to consider "scientists" reliable :p )

Hey! The Messermichts could SO crush the F-22. <_< >_>

Anyways, China just has a great manpower. I mean, it would be great. And they're really similiar to the U.S., and sorta dependent on us. We two get along great! And yeah, we should add Israel in.

We, as the second Axis, could take OVER THE WORLD!!!!!

America=Germany

Germany=Italy

Israel=Finland

China=Japan

IT's PERFECT. WE COULD TAKE OVER THE WORLD! Who's with me!

Very well. Just understand the bulk of China's military is nothing special and China is pursueing weapons systems that will be quickly outdated. The SU-27 is not going to be up-to-date that much longer, as the F-35 is pursued.

It's not really their millitary, it's that they have TONS and TONS of soldiers, and if we equipped them with U.S, and Israeli Tech...well...PWNAGE.

:rolleyes:

It's not really their millitary, it's that they have TONS and TONS of soldiers, and if we equipped them with U.S, and Israeli Tech...well...PWNAGE.

Not possible.

Who the heck cares about China's tech!!
The basic idea is if America teams up with China they'll kick a!@# America can just equip millions of chinese soldiors being a industrial power we are and then we can watch America and China take over the world muhahahaha




I love you guys

Dude...

Have to throw Sweden in...

Just because no one will ever expect it...

BWA HA HA!

[QUOTE=Serapindal]Hey! The Messermichts could SO crush the F-22. <_< >_>

Anyways, China just has a great manpower. I mean, it would be great. And they're really similiar to the U.S., and sorta dependent on us. We two get along great! And yeah, we should add Israel in.

QUOTE]

I think the korean war proved you can't win with just manpower. Sure, China can push their enemies back, but against a country with supierior technology, like the US, China is just going to end up with huge casualties.

[QUOTE=Serapindal]Hey! The Messermichts could SO crush the F-22. <_< >_>

Anyways, China just has a great manpower. I mean, it would be great. And they're really similiar to the U.S., and sorta dependent on us. We two get along great! And yeah, we should add Israel in.

QUOTE]

I think the korean war proved you can't win with just manpower. Sure, China can push their enemies back, but against a country with supierior technology, like the US, China is just going to end up with huge casualties.

What Karaska said.

We need an "axe of elvil" like with need shit for diner.

Very well. Just understand the bulk of China's military is nothing special and China is pursueing weapons systems that will be quickly outdated. The SU-27 is not going to be up-to-date that much longer, as the F-35 is pursued.Yes, but by the time the F-35 is out, the Sukhoi 27 will be in such quantities that the PLAAF can take on the USAF and inflict some damage. That said, Air power is nice, but you need ground troops in a country to actually get anything done, which would be a bit more difficult with the most populous country in the world than with Iraq, especially considering that the Chinese army has better weapons than the Iraqi one.

But I think we've strayed off the Axis of Evil topic far enough...;)

I thought we destroyed the Lufties a good 60 years ago? *dons her fighter pilot gear* Oh well, back to work! :D

I think the korean war proved you can't win with just manpower. Sure, China can push their enemies back, but against a country with supierior technology, like the US, China is just going to end up with huge casualties.
And I always thought it taught "Volonteers or not, 1 million Chinese with guns make one heck of a difference". Didn't the US nearly have the North Koreans pushed to the Chinese border before the Chinese intervened? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't that push the American forces back to what was almost the original border?

Yes, but by the time the F-35 is out, the Sukhoi 27 will be in such quantities that the PLAAF can take on the USAF and inflict some damage. That said, Air power is nice, but you need ground troops in a country to actually get anything done, which would be a bit more difficult with the most populous country in the world than with Iraq, especially considering that the Chinese army has better weapons than the Iraqi one.

But I think we've strayed off the Axis of Evil topic far enough...

The Sukhoi 27 isn't that great. And furthermore, I feel that American fighter jets (F-16 in particular) is better. The F-35 will be in such great numbers the Chinese Airforce would not be able to do anything.

And I always thought it taught "Volonteers or not, 1 million Chinese with guns make one heck of a difference". Didn't the US nearly have the North Koreans pushed to the Chinese border before the Chinese intervened? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't that push the American forces back to what was almost the original border?

First off, the Chinese military was just slaughtered in pushing back the american military. They did it but it was a total failure for the Chinese ultimately..

http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/K/KoreanW1a.asp

Casualties in the war were heavy. U.S. losses were placed at over 54,000 dead and 103,000 wounded, while Chinese and Korean casualties were each at least 10 times as high.

--

The Chinese were looking at losses of up to 500,000 KIA (Some sources say even 1,000,000 Chinese soldiers were killed I'm looking at).

Sigh numbers do matter no matter what you guys say sure having superior technology is better but in the end numbers do matter, If numbers didn't matter Germany would have gotten slaughtered so fast they couldn't blink they're technology was worst then Britian when it came to air and they're technology was worst then America when it came to ground and navy the only reason they were able to fight on our terms was because they had soooo many dudes they were able to fight equally against the Russains on one end and the Americans and allied forces on the other
Not only that but Germany actually had a pretty huge force at that time

Sigh to add another point to the Korean war...Mac Arthur actually was planning on invading China which is what got China involved but the president stopped him saying "Are you crazy let me ask you this if we get involved in China we'll have millions of soldiors coming in and guess who else is coming, who is the best friend of red China, huh? Non other then the soviet union"
Sigh Mac Arthur then went back to America after being fired for that statement and pretty much told the entire world that the president wasn't doing his job and letting him invade China... which of course a chinese minister just happened to be flipping on the American news chanel, got pissed and before you know it china's involved

Sigh numbers do matter no matter what you guys say sure having superior technology is better but in the end numbers do matter, If numbers didn't matter Germany would have gotten slaughtered so fast they couldn't blink they're technology was worst then Britian when it came to air and they're technology was worst then America when it came to ground and navy the only reason they were able to fight on our terms was because they had soooo many dudes they were able to fight equally against the Russains on one end and the Americans and allied forces on the other
Not only that but Germany actually had a pretty huge force at that time

No. Numbers don't matter if your technology is that much more superior. And things have changed a lot since WWII. Lets face it the Iraqis had one of the largest militaries in the world in 1990 (before gulf war), but they were totally slaughtered. It depends on technology and tactics these days, not manpower. Please do research before you assume.

First off, the Chinese military was just slaughtered in pushing back the american military. They did it but it was a total failure for the Chinese ultimately..

http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/K/KoreanW1a.asp

Casualties in the war were heavy. U.S. losses were placed at over 54,000 dead and 103,000 wounded, while Chinese and Korean casualties were each at least 10 times as high.

--

The Chinese were looking at losses of up to 500,000 KIA.Losses don't necessarily lose wars. Take a look at the Russians in WW2. They had tremendous losses, and yet, they managed to win. A stalemate isn't my idea of a "total failure", and they intervened on behalf of a nearly non-existent North Korean state and they managed to restore it. It cost a lot, but the Russians survived the loss of an entire generation of young men, so it may be costly, but not a failure.

Losses don't necessarily lose wars. Take a look at the Russians in WW2. They had tremendous losses, and yet, they managed to win. A stalemate isn't my idea of a "total failure", and they intervened on behalf of a nearly non-existent North Korean state and they managed to restore it. It cost a lot, but the Russians survived the loss of an entire generation of young men, so it may be costly, but not a failure.

China didn't win the war. In fact it is my opinion that the US won the war, because it was started to contain communism. Unlike South Vietnam, South Korea still exists and is far stronger. China didn't win. It was the intent of Stalin and Mao to have a united Korean penisula. That never happened.

No. Numbers don't matter if your technology is that much more superior. And things have changed a lot since WWII. Lets face it the Iraqis had one of the largest militaries in the world in 1990 (before gulf war), but they were totally slaughtered. It depends on technology and tactics these days, not manpower. Please do research before you assume.Iraq isn't necessarily the best example for comparing things either, considering that the Chinese are a heck of a lot more proud than the Iraqis, they haven't been humbled by the US lately, and there's a lot more of them than there were Iraqis.
(And ask us if we've done research before you assume)

Iraq isn't necessarily the best example for comparing things either, considering that the Chinese are a heck of a lot more proud than the Iraqis, they haven't been humbled by the US lately, and there's a lot more of them than there were Iraqis.
(And ask us if we've done research before you assume)

Are they? There are thousands (75,000 to be exact) riots each year in China, and the people aren't very happy with their leadership.. so that'll eventually flow into the Chinese military.

China didn't win the war. In fact it is my opinion that the US won the war, because it was started to contain communism. Unlike South Vietnam, South Korea still exists and is far stronger. China didn't win. It was the intent of Stalin and Mao to have a united Korean penisula. That never happened.The US achieved its objectives better than the Chinese or North Koreans (it's amazing how many people claim we "lost" the Korean war) but that doesn't mean that it was a "total failure" for the Chinese. The fact that they intervened when NK was about to disappear and push back the UN troops achieved their objective, so it was a partial victory for them then. Considering that it could have ended much worse for them, I don't think "failure" is an applicable term.

Hmmm I've been to China and they aren't as proud as you think, they're kind of like us if I think back to those days when I went to China in order to study its not that bad we went to the movies and everything and trust me China is like America when it was going through the industrial revolution most of the wealth was in the hands of a few people
Sooooo I don't think its that bad, they're defintely not going against every nation if you research China really hasn't said much in the international debates except for the fact they don't want Japan to join the united nations until Japan takes out the war criminals from their temples and take out the law that makes it illegal for textbooks to come out that haven't been government checked

The US achieved its objectives better than the Chinese or North Koreans (it's amazing how many people claim we "lost" the Korean war) but that doesn't mean that it was a "total failure" for the Chinese. The fact that they intervened when NK was about to disappear and push back the UN troops achieved their objective, so it was a partial victory for them then. Considering that it could have ended much worse for them, I don't think "failure" is an applicable term.

Well maybe I should of said an objective failure for the Chinese. They did not get what they wanted. It wasn't even a partial victory for them considering their losses. I think objective failure was more applicable as they wanted to reunite the penisula. Read up on history please.

Anyways, that's all I have to say today. I'm going out. Talk to you some other time. I don't have the time to argue all the time on the forum.

Are they? There are thousands (75,000 to be exact) riots each year in China, and the people aren't very happy with their leadership.. so that'll eventually flow into the Chinese military.Meh, source (you should know better to post controversial numbers without it by now)

How many Chinese have you talked to? I had a hard time convincing one of them (and the Chinese are just like us, reasonable to some extent) that the US would likely defend Taiwan if China attempted to take it by force.
Let me tell you, China doesn't have the problem with no-fly zones being enforced in its territory, it's booming economy wise (poor and starving people don't like their governments while people that earn money and see more money to be made like them more), and unlike Iraq, they have nukes. Even if their nukes have a bad battle field potential, it's a nice ego boost.

what exactly does germany add to the Axis?

Experience!

Meh, source (you should know better to post controversial numbers without it by now)

How many Chinese have you talked to? I had a hard time convincing one of them (and the Chinese are just like us, reasonable to some extent) that the US would likely defend Taiwan if China attempted to take it by force.
Let me tell you, China doesn't have the problem with no-fly zones being enforced in its territory, it's booming economy wise (poor and starving people don't like their governments while people that earn money and see more money to be made like them more), and unlike Iraq, they have nukes. Even if their nukes have a bad battle field potential, it's a nice ego boost.

Heheheh to comment I think its hilarious how America is soo against China taking Taiwan when in truth we stole all our land from the Indians and currently Indian reserves have the highest unemployment and highest suicide rates in the entire US but to be truthful I'm Chinese/Taiwanese/American (GOOO AMERICA!!! although China has better wine....) and its mad funny watching my mom and dad argue about this, to be truthful I do want China and Taiwan to unite but I want it to be under a democracy instead of a socialist

I think the original poster of this thread is an idiot. He does 1. not realize that Germany is not that strong when it comes to the military. 2. that the Luftwaffe was the German airforce in World War Two, it ended right after the war did, and 3. That China would most likely not agree to that type of alliance with the US, seeing as how they are officially Communist.

I think the original poster of this thread is an idiot. He does 1. not realize that Germany is not that strong when it comes to the military. 2. that the Luftwaffe was the German airforce in World War Two, it ended right after the war did, and 3. That China would most likely not agree to that type of alliance with the US, seeing as how they are officially Communist.

Sigh
1. China is socialist if they were Communist they would have starved to death a long time ago since its pretty much proven Communism kills agriculture
2. Germany defintely isn't the military power they use to be but trust me they're still quite potent
3. Don't insult people you can disagree with it but name calling should be left out of debates

Heheheh to comment I think its hilarious how America is soo against China taking Taiwan when in truth we stole all our land from the Indians and currently Indian reserves have the highest unemployment and highest suicide rates in the entire US but to be truthful I'm Chinese/Taiwanese/American (GOOO AMERICA!!! although China has better wine....) and its mad funny watching my mom and dad argue about this, to be truthful I do want China and Taiwan to unite but I want it to be under a democracy instead of a socialist

China and America are really alike. In a good way.

I mean, the Chinese aren't really socialists. Hell, the students they ran over in Tianemen square were Communists, and also protesting for more Communism.

Sigh
1. China is socialist if they were Communist they would have starved to death a long time ago since its pretty much proven Communism kills agriculture
2. Germany defintely isn't the military power they use to be but trust me they're still quite potent
3. Don't insult people you can disagree with it but name calling should be left out of debates

Communism and Socialism are sorta of the same thing. China is more Quasi-Capitalist.

I know China is more socialist, that's why I said OFFICIALLY Communist, though they are more socialist. But anyway, he is misinformed, the Luftwaffe was the German airforce during and before WW2, not now...If there were an axis of evil, Germany wouldn't deserve a place in it.

I think the original poster of this thread is an idiot. He does 1. not realize that Germany is not that strong when it comes to the military. 2. that the Luftwaffe was the German airforce in World War Two, it ended right after the war did, and 3. That China would most likely not agree to that type of alliance with the US, seeing as how they are officially Communist.

1. Doesn't matter. They easily have the best tank in the world, and the second best plane. We could use their Tank Technology, as well as German Tactics. BLITZKRIEG!

2. http://www.luftwaffe.de/

3. China isn't even close to Communist. The Government doesn't hand out money to people. The government doesn't take all their money, and redistribute it at will. You can see markets, you can see trade, you've ever been to China? They have more STORES THEN WE DO! And they also hate Communism. Hell, Tianemen Square was full of Communists.

I know China is more socialist, that's why I said OFFICIALLY Communist, though they are more socialist. But anyway, he is misinformed, the Luftwaffe was the German airforce during and before WW2, not now...If there were an axis of evil, Germany wouldn't deserve a place in it.

I agree with that Germany wouldn't be on the same level as America and China team up...
hmmm personally the best team up would be
Industrial power-America
Huge army-China
Super advance technology-???
To be truthful America's greatest power isn't its technology but its ability to make millions of fighter jets in a single week

Industrial power-America
Huge army-China
Super advance technology-Germany

The Leopard is the most advanced tank in the world, by far. Also, the German Fighterplane, is easily the second best in the world, but it wwas made 20 years ago. It's out-dated, but it's still the second best in the world. If Germany worked on a fifth generation fighter like the F-22, the results would be...amazing.

You seem like a pseudo-intellectual. aka A guy who starts cool threads to make himself seem smart. I also see your reading comprehension isn't that strong because you would have noticed I said that China is only officially Communist, though they are more Socialist. They only claim to be Communist because of national pride. So, in conclusion, I know they aren't Communist. Germany HAD advanced technology during WW2. But guess what? WW2 is over, Germany's technology is not superior to ours. I think most people would see the M1A1 Abrams as the most advanced tank in the world.

You seem like a pseudo-intellectual. aka A guy who starts cool threads to make himself seem smart. I also see your reading comprehension isn't that strong because you would have noticed I said that China is only officially Communist, though they are more Socialist. They only claim to be Communist because of national pride. So, in conclusion, I know they aren't Communist. Germany HAD advanced technology during WW2. But guess what? WW2 is over, Germany's technology is not superior to ours. I think most people would see the M1A1 Abrams as the most advanced tank in the world.

Sigh why doesn't the government in America pit the two tanks together lol its not like we don't have the money or industrial power to make them in like 5 seconds

You seem like a pseudo-intellectual. aka A guy who starts cool threads to make himself seem smart. I also see your reading comprehension isn't that strong because you would have noticed I said that China is only officially Communist, though they are more Socialist. They only claim to be Communist because of national pride. So, in conclusion, I know they aren't Communist. Germany HAD advanced technology during WW2. But guess what? WW2 is over, Germany's technology is not superior to ours. I think most people would see the M1A1 Abrams as the most advanced tank in the world.

And I see you have avoided how I totally PWN'D you on the Luftwaffe.

Several test articles were produced, and in 1976 the US indicated its interest in the design as well. In response several more test turrets were produced to US standards, one mounting the original L7A3 105 mm gun and a Hughes fire control system, a second with the same fire control system but able to "swap out" the gun for the 120 mm Rheinmetall design, and two more mounting the Hughes-Krupp Atlas Elektronik EMES 13 fire control system, one with the L7 and another with the 120 mm gun.

"The prototypes arrived in the US by the end of August 1976, and comparative tests between the Leopard 2 and the XM1 (the prototype name for the M1 Abrams) prototypes were done at Aberdeen Proving Ground, lasting until December. The US Army reported that the Leopard 2 and the XM1 were comparable in firepower and mobility, but the XM1 was superior in armor protection. Today we know this was only true as regards a hit by a hollow charge; against KE-attack the Leopard 2 was almost twice as well protected as the original M1 (650mm to 350mm). The difference with a shaped charge is also negligible. Aditionally, the 120mm Rheinmetall gun was found to be far superior in subsequent NATO tank gunnery contests, compared to the 105mm M7 mounted on the Abrams. Its more traditional multifuel diesel engine is also much more reliable, and provides the same performance. After the comparative test the Leopard 2 prototypes were returned to Germany for further evaluation."

The Leopard 2 is in fact so advanced, if it has a problem, you can literally plug your lab-top into it, and find out what is wrong.

I agree with that Germany wouldn't be on the same level as America and China team up...
hmmm personally the best team up would be
Industrial power-America
Huge army-China
Super advance technology-???
To be truthful America's greatest power isn't its technology but its ability to make millions of fighter jets in a single week

Yeah. You're right. That's why I <3 the Capitalist War Machine.

And I see you have avoided how I totally PWN'D you on the Luftwaffe.

Several test articles were produced, and in 1976 the US indicated its interest in the design as well. In response several more test turrets were produced to US standards, one mounting the original L7A3 105 mm gun and a Hughes fire control system, a second with the same fire control system but able to "swap out" the gun for the 120 mm Rheinmetall design, and two more mounting the Hughes-Krupp Atlas Elektronik EMES 13 fire control system, one with the L7 and another with the 120 mm gun.

"The prototypes arrived in the US by the end of August 1976, and comparative tests between the Leopard 2 and the XM1 (the prototype name for the M1 Abrams) prototypes were done at Aberdeen Proving Ground, lasting until December. The US Army reported that the Leopard 2 and the XM1 were comparable in firepower and mobility, but the XM1 was superior in armor protection. Today we know this was only true as regards a hit by a hollow charge; against KE-attack the Leopard 2 was almost twice as well protected as the original M1 (650mm to 350mm). The difference with a shaped charge is also negligible. Aditionally, the 120mm Rheinmetall gun was found to be far superior in subsequent NATO tank gunnery contests, compared to the 105mm M7 mounted on the Abrams. Its more traditional multifuel diesel engine is also much more reliable, and provides the same performance. After the comparative test the Leopard 2 prototypes were returned to Germany for further evaluation."

The Leopard 2 is in fact so advanced, if it has a problem, you can literally plug your lab-top into it, and find out what is wrong.

For the other guy BURNNNN lol
The Leopard 2 is definetly the strongest tank right now but on the other hand we have to understand its wayyy more expensive and some nations aren't rich enough to just ship out hundreds of these babies...heheheh
So in truth its a basic matter of is the cost worth it

For the other guy BURNNNN lol
The Leopard 2 is definetly the strongest tank right now but on the other hand we have to understand its wayyy more expensive and some nations aren't rich enough to just ship out hundreds of these babies...heheheh
So in truth its a basic matter of is the cost worth it

True, but we are sorta the richest nation in the world.

I <3 The Capitalist Peacetime Machine

The Leopard does have more "stuff" on it but infact the Abrams tank is faster and zippeir than the Leopard and has proved itself in two wars, while the Leopard has not proven itself at all and it's possible that it may not be as good as you think it is. As for the "Lufftwaffe" IT"S NOT CALLED THE LUFTWAFFE YOU IDIOT!

Luft·waf·fe Audio pronunciation of "Luftwaffe" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lftväf)
n.

The German air force before and during World War II.

Also, the German crews are conscript crews, they haven't gotten any real time action.

Heheeh true but the point is for Germany the best tank might not be the Leopard 2 after all why build one of these when you can build 2 of another, we have to understand their are a lot of issues with this sometimes buying the best isn't, well the best choice. In the minds of the Germans the Leopard 2 is a horrible choice because they can't support it
But the only reason America can support it is because were the biggest industrial power in the world and hmmm this is going to turn into an America is the best nation debate soon lol

Also buddy, most people would see the Tiger tank as a very grand tank, as it was. But guess what, it didn't play a decisive part of the war, seeing as how Germany lost.

I see these strange ethereal statements that seem to have no real support, and before anyone snorts a pin the CIA world factbook is about as informative as telepathy with a foetus. Germany has renounced all but the tiniest scrapings of any military force, the only military worth talking about in Europe is the British military (even though France's is larger) which is still the best trained man for man unit to unit. Yet it is small and flexible, with a great deal of focus falling on Spec Ops. It probably wouldn't survive an onslaught from a country like China, then again no one probably could. They have numbers, better trained than the standard American grunt, and by those tokens the slightly lower levels of technology really don't matter. Israel is great militarily, about time the Zionists moved out of the Gaza strip though, wot?

I see these strange ethereal statements that seem to have no real support, and before anyone snorts a pin the CIA world factbook is about as informative as telepathy with a foetus. Germany has renounced all but the tiniest scrapings of any military force, the only military worth talking about in Europe is the British military (even though France's is larger) which is still the best trained man for man unit to unit. Yet it is small and flexible, with a great deal of focus falling on Spec Ops. It probably wouldn't survive an onslaught from a country like China, then again no one probably could. They have numbers, better trained than the standard American grunt, and by those tokens the slightly lower levels of technology really don't matter. Israel is great militarily, about time the Zionists moved out of the Gaza strip though, wot?

Hmmm Israel is a great military but we have to remember that America supports them a lot and in fact almost all military goods in Israel was shipped there by America in order to support them having to see our troops die

Okay, back to Germany. The only reason the leopard tank beats the M1A1 Abrams is because it has more armor, besides that they are basically equal. Germany should not be sought out for their technology, I mean; it's not like we don't posses the means or intelligence to produce something similar or better than the Leopard. You also have to remember that the Abrams is somewhat old and in that is another reason why it's lacking. But hell, it's been through two wars and has served America well, partly due to the fact that our tank crews have more experience than the German ones do. As for the F-22, that plane is being used by the Americans, if you didn't look that up, so it is being manufactured in America now, not Germany. You also have to understand that they are upgrading these planes all the time, coming up with new models, etc...In conclusion, Germany's technology might be a smidge superior in some respects, but in others we have better technology, and we could produce better technology if it was a main goal. Germany's technology isn't that superior.

Hmmm and in the end while I admit Germany is pretty potent I still think it doesn't have the power to be in the evil axis MUHAHAHAAH

I think the original poster of this thread is an idiot. He does 1. not realize that Germany is not that strong when it comes to the military. 2. that the Luftwaffe was the German airforce in World War Two, it ended right after the war did, and 3. That China would most likely not agree to that type of alliance with the US, seeing as how they are officially Communist.Point two is wrong. "Luftwaffe" means Airforce, and there hasn't been a change in the name up until now.

In conclusion, Germany's technology might be a smidge superior in some respects, but in others we have better technology, and we could produce better technology if it was a main goal. Germany's technology isn't that superior.True. The only vehicle the US army takes from the Germans because it has no better is the Fox APC, mainly because of its NBC warfare capability.

Hmmm and in the end while I admit Germany is pretty potent I still think it doesn't have the power to be in the evil axis MUHAHAHAAH

You're overlooking some pretty obvious ones. Russia and Britain are still major military powers, for different reasons, but still up there.

As for the "Lufftwaffe" IT"S NOT CALLED THE LUFTWAFFE YOU IDIOT!Excuse me?!
Did you even bother looking at the link that Seripindal posted?
You sir, are more deserving of the word idiot than you can imagine. It is damn well referred to as the Luftwaffe. I have never heard it referred to as anything else and it most certainly does not denote only the Airforce before and during WW2. Unless of course, that airforce is still offering internships on its website (which is rather silly since there was no internet back then).

Hey! The Messermichts could SO crush the F-22. <_< >_>

Anyways, China just has a great manpower. I mean, it would be great. And they're really similiar to the U.S., and sorta dependent on us. We two get along great! And yeah, we should add Israel in.

We, as the second Axis, could take OVER THE WORLD!!!!!

America=Germany

Germany=Italy

Israel=Finland

China=Japan

IT's PERFECT. WE COULD TAKE OVER THE WORLD! Who's with me!

Great. Good luck with that... *walks into another room and laughs*

You're overlooking some pretty obvious ones. Russia and Britain are still major military powers, for different reasons, but still up there.

True but I'm really trying to make a combo of the elite teams
I mean while Britain and Russia would make a great team I'm trying to focus on seeing a powerful alliance as exclusive as possible and again my idea of this is
Industrial power-America
Huge army-China
Technological power-???
If I wasn't trying to narrow it down like this of course I would talk about them but in truth while Britain is a powerful technological power they're really on the same league as America so they can't fill that space while Russia has a huge army and a lot of left over weapons. That huge army pales in front of the sheer numbers of China and most of those left over weapons are pretty out of date.

I see these strange ethereal statements that seem to have no real support, and before anyone snorts a pin the CIA world factbook is about as informative as telepathy with a foetus.Hm... did you even look at it? It doesn't say much about the military, but it's certainly got most information you'll ever need for beginning research on a country.

Who really cares?

To be honest Britain possibly has the best spec ops and Intelligence in the world, only Israel comes close as a contender and they are very much reliant on M-I6. :P

Hm... did you even look at it? It doesn't say much about the military, but it's certainly got most information you'll ever need for beginning research on a country.

It's not, it's actually pretty inaccurate a lot of the time. :) More trustworthy sources around.

It's not, it's actually pretty inaccurate a lot of the time. :) More trustworthy sources around.Linksh pleazhe. I always like better sources.

Linksh pleazhe. I always like better sources.

Ssssh, tell no one, but I use...books...there I said it...books.

Ssssh, tell no one, but I use...books...there I said it...books.

hahahah Go EAST
Thats right people not all your info can be found on the internet
*gasp* the horror

Ssssh, tell no one, but I use...books...there I said it...books.Books tend not to get updated as often as the factbook...

Anyways, Germany also has the best self-propelled artillery in the world, undisputabedly, because one DONALD RUMFELD, canceled the 11 billion dollar project to make one for us.

Damnit. But still, they're the ****ing Germans. They can come up with great stuff. For the love of god, they all but INVENTED the Modern Plane. If we give them a right push as allies, what they can invent will be unlimited. We will be the world superpower. As the Axis of Evil.

hahahah Go EAST
Thats right people not all your info can be found on the internet
*gasp* the horror

What? noooooo. Blasphemy!

Of course, we'll allow some nations soverienity (Canada, Switzerland, Luxembourg, etc.) But however, Nations that disagree with us, like...France...and France....and France, must be taken care of.

This topic may have died. :(

Anyone?

The most important thing Germany has, is it's great technology.

The XM8 is a GERMAN GUN.

We copied lots of parts of the M1a2 from the German Leopard II.

The 25 year old Eurofighter Typhoon, is still one of the best fighters in the world, matching up with the F-22 Raptor.

The AK-47 was based off the German STG-55.

Lots of stuff.

With Germany's Technology,

America's Industry

And China's Manpower, we will be UNSTOPPABLE!